Dr. Shehzad Saleem | the Preservation of the Quran & the Problem of Qira'at | MindTrap with Mufti#26

[Music] oh hi folks of in al hamdulillah wa kafa salat wa salam o allah rasool allah mustafa ala ideality notable remember who donated what beatiful were bad for salam allahi allah o allah wa sallim become a marhaban once again to mindtrap with most evil aids we've got an awesome spectacular show for you tonight in Sharla an esteemed guest I'll be bringing on

shortly that will shed some light some tranquility on a matter that's being disturbing quite a few people recently with the whole controversy that has been aroused on the nature of the Quran what is what is the what is the actual the existential nature the metaphysical nature of the Quran what about these variations the ire of the pinna at all of these things people are asking these questions time and time again so before anything I'm just doing an audio check to make sure that the sound is coming through fine if there are any issues I

will just amend the imminently but I take it that the sound I'm just checking with me Facebook sent there right I'm if I just get it I'm just getting a clearance there ok excellent I can see that right all right audio is all going through fine excellent excellent people so bringing up first of all for you a profile picture that before you people you can see is the legendary doctor Shahzad Salim and absolute master in this field

a specialist on Quran Sciences on the variation and the compilation of the Quran what is called Jamal Quran in Arabic a fellow of comedy subs married Institute and center of teaching and somebody who's very close to comedy saab himself right any delayed lets us Salam aleikum was that a llama settling and welcome to my trap well it was salam it's an honor to be with you right I'm really grateful that

you've taken out this time to really enlighten us so I have to from the bottom on my heart first and foremost sugar and sugar and I deeply appreciate I can imagine only how busy you are folks I've reached out to dr. Shahzad Salim after watching some amazing lectures on this topic and I to be fair I thought you know what I wasn't expecting you to to get I thought you know my message might be totally drowned out and it'll take forever up so I was so glad I was over the moon when dr.

sob got back to me doctors harp for our audience who are not - who some some of whom may not be too familiar with your work just a brief overview so I'll just to kind of start it up and then I'd like you to expand if you could I know doctor Saab will be humble but he's done some groundbreaking work in this field he's done a whole PhD this you can see this is major book right there that is the history of the Quran a critical study part of which is a PhD study that's you know span many

years took dr. Shahzad across you know different countries different research but from this this journey in brief doctor Saab with the deem disconnection and then on to Quran studies could you tell us a bit about about that well it all started in 1999 when I was called about to teach Quranic studies at Elmore in our Institute to graduate students so when I started teaching for on part of that teaching was to introduce the Quran to the students which of course included

the language the history the background the Aundre the arrangement the coherent saw everything but what comes by the name of Elul quran so one part of that was was the history of the quran and i thought it would be the most easiest sailing because we know that the quran that we have today is preserved to perfection Dartford odd and so that's the end of that I would not have much to say but when I started preparing that for that subject about 20 years ago I was really dismayed to use a very soft word I was shocked because I had a lot of queries that built up in my

mind and these questions arose because of the way history of the Quran was divulged in our history and Hadees books and I thought that I would not be able to teach this course because gosh I cannot answer these questions which would stare me in the eye so how can i satisfy other people so I made this commitment to myself that once I am through with the course this was about six months I would do my best to find out the answers and so from here began my journey in November of 1999 when I finished that course I said that I must have the answers not to explain it to

others but to my own self because being a believer I need to find out how and why and when of this whole thing happened why is it that we have multiple versions of the Quran we know that there are at least five of them extent one that we know ourselves which is the huffs version which is prevalent in our time seven percent of the Muslim Ummah burn death there is three percent and there are about eleven countries which include that 3 percent which have four different versions of the Quran when I say different versions of course I refer to the fact that the words are different then there is this word order at times which is different then we have although

there these differences might not be very significant as far as their meaning is concerned although there are some others as well which have a significant change of meaning as well but still the claim that the Quran was preserved word for word in one format had that claims seemed to literally shake in its foundations so this was the one of the major question that that stared me and that took me actually to one of the North African countries Morocco where we have the naphtha is Kurata or nap is reading or Napa's version of the Quran so to speak and they have been reading this Quran for 12

centuries and for them the Quran of huffs that the Quran decree read is equally good and the Quran that theory is equally good as you will be knowing in your own scholarly approach but to me and to my students and of course to many other people this was quite disturbing and alarming and then of course there were other questions as well for example we know that in hadees literature there are hadees which tell us that the quran that we have is incomplete the regime verse is a is a very typical example it is called moon soo cuute lava do no hokum when you means that it was there yeah and we have the sparkling words

which the mother of faithful i sure said that the Prophet had was had just died and they still read that verse in the Quran and we know no that is no longer in the Quran and so person like I shall reporting that and then of course there were several other questions like for example the compilation the way the Sahaba went about it seemed as if it was a haphazardly sort of done thing things would not preserve properly and if they were gathered on the basis of two witnesses on the one hand we stake this claim that every person had the same I mean it was an all / sick pervasive sort of a thing in which all people remember

the Quran and there was not even need to call on two witnesses but here we find two witnesses being testifying in words been put in and we find Omar coming up with the regime worse and because he was the only witness his witness was not accepted because he didn't have a second witness with him so the question arose that was this the way of compliation the Quran in which just to pick missus were called and and whatever they came up it was accepted and then of course the sahabas the codices for example notices ascribed to abdullah bin abdullah al masud ali ali radiyaallah on whom all of

them differed with each other as they have reported in our history books and then there's an entirely new I would say color added if you look at the Shiite version of the collection of the Quran which is diametrically opposite to the Sunni version and it has its own story to tell so these were the questions of course I have just mentioned a few of them of creativeness this quest on this is fascinating voyage and that's amazing and I have to say that you know you've this book seriously

is I feel that it's you know it's I mean it really is underrepresented I don't know how long has this been in print by the way in circulation I just got hold of it very recent yeah it's savored for about six months I would say it was published in November of 2019 so it's about seven months it is an immense study honestly and I totally i-i've got through you about you know about 40% of it and I have been loving it the amount of research and not just from the theory from the contemporary approach the transparency angle the hadith e level the the discussion on us

our need you know for anybody who I suppose there's different layers of people there's people who just want an understanding that's fine but for somebody who's a bit more serious about the topic and they want a very kind of like a whole abroad detailed overview not just an overview and analysis then definitely history of the Quran and I would inshallah you know at some point like to you know go over as much as we can off of this in the future if we if we can because there's just so much to discuss but dr.

sup right now I'm not sure if you're aware but this this discussion has become very relevant since over a week or two and what's happened is it stems from a an American scholar who has a huge following sure he has a copy and he gave an interview and in the interview because he comes from a very kind of a Salafist background so most of his you know and he's probably guys I think I think he's got like 1 to 2 million probably followers or something but uh he even though he has drifted from that mainstream Salafist hardline approach over the years but he still

that is his kind of crowd now because in an interview recently he had the question sprung upon him and he said that look we can't there's problems with saying the quran' is preserved and we our traditional narratives failures now this sent kind of shockwaves right throughout all his audience and then by extension other people because what happened is a lot of not only muslims a lot of Islamophobes Orientalists or x muslims follow him so they took that clip and everybody started doing a discussion on it oh sure he hasn't called he has admitted the

caranas problems now people like J Smith for example has done several discussions already on it saying look see even one of the major Western Muslim scholars has admitted this so this has sent a lot of the regular public asking the local scholars please explain to us the nature of the Quran because you know we are we're confused so and you're obviously an expert and you've got a perspective on this which I believe is in line with Hamdi subs perspective if I'm correct so I'd like us to stemming from a simple question and then kind of opening it up

and going further a simple question which Muslims would like to know from the very offset is that for unpreserved and then what do we mean by preservation and then following through we can kind of elaborate so over to you dr. Saab is the unpreserved yes I would say absolutely it is preserved and the Quran that has been that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu wasallam fourteen centuries ago we have it exactly in the same way as it was revealed dot 4 dot and the verses have been preserved exactly in the way they were revealed in the order they were

revealed and there is no doubt about it the only question is that there are some other versions circulating by the name of that they are Quran 2 and we have variations in single verses so they managed some separate explanation because as soon as I say this that the Quran has we preserved the question arises that way detect maroc Quran come from Maria from where have these Korat originated so I think we have a very cogent answer to that and but since your question is that is the Quran preserve I would say 100% it is preserved and that is the actually miracle of the Quran itself and not only the miracle it is

the thing which differentiates the scripture the final Testament so to speak from the Old Testament and the New Testament which are preserved in their translations we don't have the originals neither the Hebrew of the Old Testament nor the Syriac of the New Testament they are all in their translations in fact they are copies of their copies of these translations and the only distinction which the Quran has or the edge which the Quran has over previous scriptures is that it is preserved in its original language now as the question of course as I said is because of the fact that the people like Chevy hasta kasi who I actually met just last year he invited

me Institute and I gave a talk to his final year students and he himself for I believe that's on YouTube I believe I am not sure about that because I saw some pictures of it anyway with you say be next to yourself all day on YouTube so I don't think it has been released because there there are some people who were asking me and I was directing all my queries to that Institute I said that you can go and ask them but maybe it has so so I think that yourself Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie is a very very I would say a phenomenal scholar he has a very very short brain I've discussed things with

him we had our differences but it was in a very friendly way that we discussed those differences and it's like thrashing out of an age-old problem so I think that is just a question of answering that the some of the questions which I asked myself was faced with the where did those other carranza other readings annex so if before we just get into that doctor Saab odd so we've got a simple thing first of all the question at a simple level okay is that what unpreserved categorically you're saying it is now before we get into some of the

the questions now you have a holistic perspective which is I if I'm if I can say this also Humpty subs perspective I believe they found correct in that I don't want to miss a tribute something to advice by a supervisor and teacher especially so I would I can say that my work in fact if I go a little more broad I would say my work is actually an explanation of a module in Ferraris thesis on the collection of the Quran and of course the transmission which he put forth about a hundred years ago Andromeda Saab is a student of one of his of his students of fry students so

it's like presenting the works of Ferraris llahi and vomity and then elaborating some more details and incorporating some more contemporary details in the words of these three scholars that's that's amazingly poop so there is this legacy of coming right down from you know a llama for our hisab right down through is llahi saab and then hamid Issa right now in a in a paragraph before we begin expanding what is the view that you espouse about the quran so as opposed to the objections and the counter theories just your theory or humbly subs theory what is

this when you say the quran' is preserved how would you put yours just to be clear on it and then we'll expand on the other problems and objections that people may have so the quran was primarily preserved were batam through the oral law i would say and orderly through memorization the quran was committed to memory and thousands of the Sahaba they committed it to memory the so for secondary because you see in those times the diacritical marks and the vowel marks although they were present but they were sparingly used and everything that was written followed

that oral recitation so the primary mode of recitation if we if you take talk about in very secular terms is that a very large number of people memorized various parts of the Quran some of them whole part some of them partially and then they transmitted that oral recitation to the next generation so it it was like a generation to generation transfers it was not like a few people transmitting to a few people and precisely this is what we call the watt or in our you know in our I would say a religious terms although the terms of author is not just religious its historical which means that such a vast

number of people transmit something that their collusion on falsehood is virtually rendered illogical and impossible so it was like saying that thousands of Sahaba committed the Quran to memory and passed it on to the next generation and the next generation and this is like a pyramid which is continuously coming down and expanding its base and the topmost tremor I was at the topmost section of the premon tournament itself consisted of such a large number of people as you can say that it was safely and securely transmitted to the next generation and since then this process has been continuing on and on and this is something very unique to the Quran

because do not find any other book being committed to memory in such a large number and then being transmitted and the written recitation was actually which followed the oral recitation so whatever you were was speaking or whatever you were reciting was put to the pen and the paper or of various various instruments of those times and it always needed the testa fication or the testimony of a half is to say that whatever has been written is correctly written so you see it was basically a novel way of transmitting something yeah the Quran I would say which was of course not very novel in the culture in which the Quran originated you would be

knowing that the Arabs basically there were people in whom orality was a very very common thing so they would have these genealogies learnt by heart Abu Bakr himself Ilan who was a was the genealogist who had all these genealogies in his head and they used to rely on this memory on this digis memory you know even some people today like I was listening to professor Keith small who's also somebody very involved in Quran kind of manuscripts and he was saying as well that it's very clear from how the early manuscripts are that it's very clear and evident self-evident that they

was a very strong oral tradition and this was simply like a kind of code to help people to nudge them along it wasn't actually something like people trying to I mean I just thought that's a very it just goes in with what you think so ok so the oral tradition was there this part okay I think very few people would doubt that the Prophet Salla Salem in his lifetime the Quran is complete and it's being taught to the companions he passes away Salah a live Saddam what

in your belief happens then in in as part of this paragraph before we expand on the some of the may be the difficult objections of all problems so you see a very unique method was adopted in the transmission of the Quran so if you ask me what happened at dead of the Prophet or what was the status of the Quran at the death of the Prophet I would say that it was with the living tradition of the Muslims it was being written it was being taught it was being read it was being memorized it was being done like a comparative text as well so all kinds of things which star which which living tradition of any religious community was

it would have was possessed by the Quran so at the time of the prophets death there were students of the Prophet who had written it down but the Prophet never left and officially compiled written Quran that he never did and I think that was a very wise thing as well because protecting something written is not easy all things can creep in in in a society where we have so many things and the custody of that must have been become would have been very difficult and over a period of time it would have just rotten away so this was this was just partly adopted that written culture was there but it was never relied upon and the Prophet never gave a written

sort of a Koran to his companions the Companions himself wrote that wrote it down for themselves so it was basically like students taking notes and then all of them comparing those notes to each other and coming up with the same result and the way the Prophet himself received the Quran was oral he never already done for himself you know that he was not conversing with reading and writing so I mean he's not writing he would if he could understand so he just got it from Gabriel and the way he got it from Gabriel was that over tradition and he transferred it exactly in the manner that he received it from Gabriel and this is how the Quran was transferred so the stories that what the caliphs did after the prophets demise that for

example did Abu Bakr either Mercer or dittos man-made copies I think they are grossly inflated and misrepresented and misinterpreted all that they did was they just spread the Quran which was already there between being responsible caliphs of their of their kingdom they wanted it to expand and for new Muslim converts and there was they were Wars going on there were people who been coming into the fours of Islam and they wanted more copies of the Quran so what they did was is this spread far and wide these copies of the Quran but the stories which are mentioned in Bukhari and in some of the other Hadees books regarding how the Quran came to be

compiled I've shown in my research that they lack not only in there is not a lot of problems but in the content as well yeah so a lot of conflicting narrations as well and you show that so so well in the book right so just you know you said doctors are that you said gibreel Ali Salaam is orally transmitted to the Prophet the Prophet is orally transmitting word-for-word so just to be clear in your understanding the Quran did it have flexibility in its words like so when we're reading a verse today

in the Quran when the Prophet was reading this are you espousing the opinion that there was it was absolutely fixed the word is as the word is today all of the words yes I do but there is a little explanation perhaps that would that is in order because to understand this I would say yes and just to explain how I say yes I would say that the history of the compilation of the Quran is something which the Quran itself has itself has spoken of so you see when you talk about the collection of the Quran you first go to the primary source which is the Quran itself and this is precisely what Hamilton fara he did when

he pointed out Surat Yama's verses 15 to 19 he said that these verses in Nara Lena Jumeirah who before Anna Faris apirana Fattah via purana Suman Elena by Anna this point out to the fact that the Quran was revealed through logically and then it was recompiled in a different order so the words are in our Elena Jumeirah huwa karana that these various parts of the Quran which have been revealed piecemeal in installments the Almighty is assuring the Prophet in a matte concern we know that surah clearomizer mekkin syrups and the Quran was in the process of its revelation so while while dispelling

some doubts which the Prophet had in mind or maybe laying some of his fears the Quran goes on to say that don't worry your prophet it will not be given to you in one go it will be given to you in various installments and then it is upon me for other Almighty says to collect it in our Elena Gemara who I will collect its various parts and then read it before Anna who I would read it in a different order because the chronological order and the order that we have today are different but is a karana Futaba karana so when I reread the Quran in the final though in the final compilation you are bound to or to follow that file recitation as far as the key neurological recitation is

concerned you have to abandon it now what has happened is that the remnants of that chronological recitation have persisted and the biggest source of these extra Quranic readings are is that chronological sequence or that chronological reading in which the Quran was sent down and then when it was recompiled some of the tenses were changed some of the word orders were altered and of course because of the fact that it was to be given to the the rest of mankind certain settings were changed but the chronological order was also preserved because from the people the Sahaba they did not want to give it away because they thought that whatever they have heard from the mouth

of the Prophet it must be preserved so we have a case of a parallel transmission of the it's not the exactly logical order I would say the remnants of the chronological order so from their originating the qira'at and as far as the complete recompilation to the Quran is concerned that is the Quran that we have with us today so what you have just two just before that part just kind of evades us so the chronological order of many people will know that the chronological order isn't how the Quran is is eventually compiled or put together because the Mucky sutras aren't always in the beginning everybody

knows people know that but we're saying that the Kira at are you saying that the Kira art or originated or they find the origins in the previous like it was a real first and then it was reread right so since I was I'm saying that one of the major sources of the kirat maybe 70% is that the revelatory sequence which was abandoned and as we know that the new sequence was given to the Quran and we know that the Hadees also corroborate this when they say that in the final Amazon of the Prophet he actually revised the Quran with Gabriel twice and

he actually sat for Ithaca for 20 days instead of the normal ten days and the Quran was revised between him and the prepend and Gabriel twice so that the new order of the Quran could be preserved and this happened every death on this revision of whatever would be revealed in that year happened in every Ramazan only in the last Ramadan the whole rearrangement or the whole complete order was preserved and that was passed on to the Ummah now what happened is that some of the Sahaba insisted that because of the fact that they've heard the previous Quran is well although some of the parts of that Quran so we would not give it up but we would

like to have it preserved as as a as maybe an archival thing as a very prized possession that the from the profit and they were very clear on this that it has it is not part of the Koran it's just of historical importance but later on as things went down their students of their students this distinction got blurred and things started to mix up and the Quran which or the parts of that revelatory sequence which were just meant for maybe their record started to be thought of as they were the Quran themselves as they were Quran in itself and that hence we sought to see there a number of readings a

number of recitations they resulted and then what happened was that in the times of suffering now iris Allah is one of the premier books of shaffer he he said that it is incumbent upon every Muslim scholar to accept watches reveal to ill will hosta so there is one piece coral will Armour which is meant for everyone and then there's this in world class service where he was referring to the Hadees that some of the the the knowledge of the Prophet which is being transferred for by the ahad or the body aha so they must also be preserved and scholars must must learn them and must have a very deep appreciation of that so this opinion of Shafi was also accepted

and what happened was that we that phenomena of dual transmission came into being in which the original Quran was transmitted by the masses okay and at the scholars the scholarly people they started preserving that there will it be sequence and later on as that preservation went on the the distinction line between what was the real Quran and what was just the remnants of the revelatory sequence it got blurred and we find that the Sahaba saying or the Prophet read this was this like this as well without knowing that at times that these verses will actually be explained in Arabic by a Sahabi or at times they were of the previous

sequence so this is one of the ways and then we have some other issues as well as for example there are similar passages of the Quran have any half is will tell you that there are so much similar passages in the Quran that if you if you are not a very sharp don't have a very short memory you tend to mix up similar verses I have traced that in my book as well have shown that how at tying similar fashion TSA's became Bunton mingled up and the readings which were ascribed to readers like for example knafeh or hops or Assam and the rest they were basically the result of intermingling of two similar passages in

which one word was inserted for example the racism a very simple example would be we say that the Koran has in the llaha who was an EU Hemi so the same worse is present at another place which by the words in the law I love Anil Hamidah the hawai is not there so one there are several races with who are in their cellar certain other places without fry okay I dislike because of the this kind of the shabu motor shall be they are taking it across yeah right so just two so okay just to kind of keep the steps so people can also kind of keep up that first and foremost what

we're saying or sorry what you're saying here is in the lifetime of the Prophet Allah Salim Quran was being revealed naturally in in whatever relevant order it was to the circumstances but as the verse of the Quran had taught a lottery taught the Prophet that look when the time comes we will give it its curve its absolute structure so in Elena Jamaa who were karana so we will and fight our inevitable karana so once we have laid out the sequence then follow it now the new sequence yeah thank you

yeah FISA I know which means there when we read this a fresh sequence and abandon the previous one of course so at this one thing I would like to point out is that if this is so simple I mean anyone can ask that why didn't people follow this verse of the Quran the answer to that also is that inner Elena and Jamuna piranha was not interpreted the way thrice have interpreted it and they interpret this verse in a different way our traditional scholars and they actually rely on abdullah ali abbas is a sir in his hadees in which he has a different meaning of jhamora

the word that he actually takes or he actually interprets is that the word JAMA means that the quran will be etched in the heart of the prophet so it will be collected in the heart of the Prophet and this is how they proceed so just giving you a pre-emptive arms no absolutely so what I was gonna say is that so and then what you're saying is at the end of the prophet's life in the final ramadan he repeats the entire quran this time twice over in the car in now the divine sequence so wick you're going with the understanding as well just to be clear that the sequence in the koran

the 30 verse war is what the azulene called toe TV it is it is divinely set the Allah has set said this earlier prophet read this to the Muslims in his final year twice and and in this reading when it was read to him some some changes may have taken place in pronouns and things like this as not through the Prophet but through revelation so this was in contrast to the previous let's say pronoun differences part of the

origin of what becomes the tara at complex later on so just to just to make sure ok so we've got that up to speed okay mm-hmm right now and part of what also has added to some of the Thira at differences with words are actually different may have been the table or the kind of over well overlapping are 20 and verses and i can i can i can point out to other sources as well so one of them is what we call the tuxedo kirara you see what happened was that the Sahaba would teach the Quran is well and they would place a synonym while explaining a

Quranic word and what happened is that in many instances if you look up for example the Muslim network of near be Shiva or of the reserve you'll find out a Sahabi typically teaching someone and telling them that oh this word means this first hour means from though so what happens is that that the meaning that they would tell itself became a Quran and the the teaching of the Quran in which a sahabi was simply explaining as a Quranic word by replacing it with a synonym and that synonym actually became a Quranic words in itself because they thought that the Sahaba is telling us that oh you can

read this verse like this as well however the sahabi never went that he just he was just explaining that this word means that so that is a third source and a food source which cannot be ruled out is concoction you see in the second or third century just as a Hadees were concocted they were fabricated in large numbers we know for various reasons so this concoction also cannot be ruled out and I think these are the four major sources which are result and just to add to you you know your third point like in the Salah palem says that you have the the manuscripts for example one thing that's been pointed out before in part of surah

2 Toba there was bismillah it said latter pole like the person had written latter cool I mean that kind of manifested in in part of the research and it was well that wasn't revelation the these clearly seemed to be the notes of the person saying lat I pulled bismillah you know he'd so that just where people are adding notes themselves ok so we've got this ok in the sense that the understanding is look the Quran was revealed it was rearranged divinely at the end of the prophets life they may have been certain syntactical variations

that were revealed at that stage so you know this this verse that oh sorry there's this hadith not verse that everybody brings up about unzila for analyst Abbate a truth is this hadith just baseless is this what what you're going with or is it that it has a different interpretation or something so I think before explaining I'll just put before before you the conclusion which so UT one of the famous scholars of Allah will Quran and of course these Sciences has put forth and he says that this is from among the mutashabiha heart the meaning of which has has yet to be known it is ambiguous narrative and I have showed in

my one of my chapters that all these accelerations of the word growth they are basically 40 different explanations of what what the word actually means and I have taken about seven or eight major of these interpretations and shown that how they are inconsistent and how they don't actually match even the Arabic of the word after her of the weight is translated and then I have also worked on this none of these energies in short that not only them were full ones but the mouth ones first ma booth means mean the linearity of the Tarapore by the

Sahaba they are not soundly reported although the question still may arise that even if all these derivatives are not family reported there has to be some kernel of truth because so many people are saying so many different games they claim it's motivated I was just going to show in case some of you thinking what on earth is Musti doing why is he looking I'm just going to show to some extent from the book for you like just as in just holding it that this whole section is really as you can see almost this whole chunk as you can

see that this what I've got in my hand there is dealing with really the the variations about a roof then the asan heed and then each of the rewards and the different interpretations I mean I mean great great detail but I mean the question is that is this it's definitely confusing to people but is it are we saying it's made up I mean some people will say but so many people transmit it what you see what happens is that it's not necessarily made up the profit could have said something about the Quran which was probably misrepresented and misinterpreted the

way we find many other narratives I'm these days I'm working on these narratives regarding the return of Jesus and they also proliferate we find them in huge quantities from the Sahaba may be in excess of 25 Sahaba narrating them and here is well in this I hope we find more than 20 Sahaba but first we need to understand that narration of more than 20 Sahaba does not make something with the water the water is not what we actually what actually personally I think but which what which is basically called by the Sunni hadith scholars as the water but I I subscribe to the definition of the water which is put forth by the azulene

which is the real definition which means a large number it's not just five or ten or fifteen and to be fair that you know the hadith scholars in early Islam for the first several centuries didn't have this term to water in their books it's it's actually introducing much later yes so I think that there is maybe an explanation and I I did not actually I didn't want to explain that narrative because I think that any explanation is more of a guesswork and it may be as educated as a guess could be but it will revolve the whole debate or focus the whole debate on my interpretation of

what the Prophet actually said so I refrain from going to that ETA I just I just withheld myself and said that neither the text is worthy of any attention because it has so many contradictions and it's not at all jumbled up the famous relatives of the omer narrative of by Hakim in his arm they have it has a number of problems and the oh by even a cognitive or the number of problems so I I restrict it myself to point out the fact that such contradictions as you know cannot simply make a case for the are and as our scholars say is our honor that socketed so any benefit to things there they they

clash with each other and they cannot be reconciled so we just have to do tobacco and just we have to just drop them because I kind of like got to that part and I've been really going through this book believe it or not as much as I can every day and I was going through that part and I was thinking right I want to get to your take on it and it was I'll at the end you're right you actually don't really give a I mean you give I suppose they take but it's not like you're not trying to dominate a narrative you simply ended on what you're saying that look this doesn't really have much to stand on

like so there seems to be some discussion there seems to be these transmissions there's a lot of contradictions going on really there's not much we can take away with substance from this discourse you kind of just leave it with that really as you're saying and yeah and I thought well okay that's a very interesting I mean would you not argue then or could one not argue share that you see there is there are so many transmissions in let's say the books of hadith the books of son are the books of of history and different

things about varying recitations and people reading the Quran different like you said the incident of let's say after Lebanon Massoud and I know you have an amazing very detailed I was quite shocked how detailed it was with Abdullah Thomas Road and you know this whole thing about Muhammad attained and and some very amazing points you made on that as well about his students but with all these narratives exist without them I mean without going into their my new details but they want one kind of consistent fact is people are saying that people seem to be disagreeing on

the hundred percent entity of the Quran like they agree on the Quran but they seem to disagree on its certain things like some people think this ain't from me that ain't from it now wouldn't they just hide this fact like why even why would Muslims even you know transmit this because this is not coming to us from today Orientalist I mean they're bringing some factors but really the bulk of everything is coming from our own sources it's coming from our book saying by the way you know Hisham it Hakeem this is how he read Omar disagreed this was lute said this

is what he said obey said our books are saying this so why not just cover this up because they have Muslim scholars have at times you know not to digress the discourse but like let's say you mentioned about the Jesus thing and I personally agree I'm also of the view with like um D Saab is that there isn't a second coming and and you get scholars like let's say in the past ish even Haslam who says that they disagreed on this you know the masala for Walter you out publicly Amla but yet their name seem to have been buried like scholars just buried it they didn't transmit it

why did they not do the same here then I think it's that sheer honesty there didn't mince words I think that whatever was the truth whatever was the reality just was just brought forth this is very similar to the fact when you see that we have certain scribal errors in the Quran and is something which every single scholar acknowledges for example we have extra ellipse extra vowels extra arse and they were so confident that even if they preserve those errors in writing because the orality is so strong that people will recognize them that these are errors and hence they are marked by a circle so that people know that these

have been erroneously written but because they have been written by the Sahaba you say okay we just preserve it in writing and we know that they are wrong so I think it's sheer honesty that they transmitted the rest of the qira'at as well and they didn't hide it because ultimately the thesis that they that they I would say work that was that they also somehow our part of the Quran and they form some historical connection with the Quran that we have so I think it was their own purity of intent which even today exists and which is of course a matter of a very singular amazement that why is it that we have this this

phenomena of a parallel transmission but this goes to speak volumes in favour of the fact that analyze that twenty year period or 22 year period in which the Quran was revealed and then rearranged so these variations were bound to exist I mean had the Quran been given the same sequence as it was revealed that was the final sequence perhaps you would not have had any variation because if you have could have been preserved as as was revealed but because it was re recompile it was given a new order a new sequence and some changes there had to be these left out things of these remnants which were there and they were so dear to the

Sahaba that did the sort they thought that because they've heard from the mouth of the Prophet and they have the stomach significance so they'll just not do away with it and they did not realize that this would become a huge problem later on because something which is of historical significance would be mingled up and would become part of the main discourse you know what I also feel doctor Saab is that I feel that the early generations like for especially what is called the seller usually up between the one to two almost 200 years of Muslims at least you know up until the esperaba in Imam Malik Sage that

kind of age I feel that they were also a lot more secure with their faith in certain things like these things didn't like it didn't kind of shake their faith as much like it I'm sure like it was a challenge but it isn't like I feel that with time as institutionalization came in to Islam and this is my thought I mean I'm just saying that I feel that people became very insecure about anything challenging and narrative but yeah I mean because I do find it really strange that all of these things which

are so challenging for people today they actually in our sources well discussed in the early to the extent that you know and people disagree like so people felt that you know know there were multiple readings there were different things and they weren't really shaken by this but I just find that very quite people a way that they were very they were so confident that they knew that the the mother reading in the masses is so well-established and even like today you find these this this karate Lama which the Quranic we read the Quran on actually was called the karate Lama by

our Salaf so they were so confident that this karate lama will be all pervasive and it will infiltrate far and wide that even if these singular readings are transmitted they will just be honest I on the margins and of course this was the case and this is the case even today so whenever I talk give a talk to people who are not aware they say that this is the first time that that has come to their knowledge that there are other readings as well and I said this design because the transmission of the Illman hasa which is of course this garage was confined to the scholars so even today only the scholarly community knows knows about it as far as the masses are concerned they don't have and just for

the for people to know that term this term I'll karate lama what you for what I've understood is what you're saying is that it's it's like a proto Kira it's it's pre these Kira art but it is the reading of the Quran is called the general in Arabic it just means the general reading or the common recitation Alcatel AMA this existed and this was the Quran and this is the most half we have today I've understood this correctly and this name was given by the table your own to this reading for

example a butcher - salami who lived in the first hundred years he was the person he said that this is how we were we were introduced to the Quran as the karate Lama and he said that the reading of Abu Bakr Omar Rahman Ali and the mahadji rule and the Ansar was one and it was dubbed as al qiyamah there was no difference and it was being read this way so you can see that in the first 100 years there was absolutely no problem and even the hog which were being transmitted were just marginalized they were the sidetracked Lodi de carajás later on actually these Korat surfaced because of the fact that this distinction between what was the canonized version and what was the

non-kill nice version this got somehow mixed up and as i said 'mom Shafi when he said that he'll milazzo belongs to the scholar the scholarly tradition made it upon themselves that it is incumbent upon them to preserve this this llll Milazzo so that preservation is what we find in our to see books and our kirat books in our Hadees books and in so many books but never in the masses in the masses the only car that we find his allah rasool allah except except there is an exception and those 11 countries which have a different Quran of course and they're these 11 countries have four different currents so I went there to Morocco and I found out that this this

was a this was actually the work of a ruler in the third century who was the posse of Kieran who said that at a certain point of time we will adopt this particular reading and the reason for that being that Imam Malik the faith of Imam Malik was in invoke in in the North African continent and Imam Malik preferred the reading of knafeh which is a different variation of the reading that we have is different on the carotid Amma and they said ok because we prefer Moloch to be artfully he is our jurist and Malik prefers no face who will adopt the reading of Norfolk so this is how the reading of Nava got imposed in the

African continent in about the 3rd century the later part of the 3rd century and ever since then it has been going on so the only exception are those 11 countries in which a different recitation of the Quran was imposed by the authority of the state masses don't have this ability to accept or reject so when you do it from the top it's like an interference in which people said ok this variation is something that we will accept ok so this is how so - so - kind of - kind of like compartmentalize that for for our viewers that what we what you're saying share is that we've we followed through

that look the Quran came through in this particular way they were it was called the Kira Atalanta it was it was one particular recitation these things by the way for those that know people that don't know these varied readings or these variants are called Kira are popularly known by the 7 you know 7 readers and then from them you've got two further people transmitting 14 in total and and some people have taken them up to in their 20s 30s and even up to 50 different recitations that existed but there was a scholar called abu bakr IBN majah heeds who kind of popularized

these seven now what you're saying is all of these seven first of all these are not motivated at something which personally I do agree with that as well that these are not a motor water they're not on the same level as the common Guerra are the second thing all of these variations what if I've understood you correctly doctor Saab you're saying that these are all in essence each the heart is that so what so so you see the in order to trace the history of the carafe that's slightly a ship to of what you are

talking about k1k and so the history of the carafe can be summed up by saying that for example just as in v we had these great scholars like anthony Farha humble and malik and sharpey the four major schools of thought and of course the Geoffrey's as well so in a very similar way there came this time in round the second century or the early third century when very great curries are the Karaka the the reciters they were invested with this with this privilege that they could choose between the various readings which they had inherited from the Sahaba and the table I own and they were called the Seibel yes they are which means that they could

choose before them people had people had different readings coming from the same Sahabi of the love nemesis is Allah saying something regarding one verse and another thing regarding another verse so what happened was in this third century when these famous seven recite is which as you said rightly chosen by abu bakr IBN majah they form a whole system of Quran in which what they did was that for example one person got knafeh he chose a single reading which amongst many other variations for example from Alif LAAM Meem to unmask each verse would be having different variations so he came forward and he set his own criteria and

he chose one or he preferred one variation as a holding preference to all the same for each worse in this manner we got a systematic seven seven variate a variation possessing Quran in which each of these Seibel if they are they chose on certain criteria that I will choose this reading if for example her verse had seven variations or six variations so typically an imam naf i would say okay i choose one of them and this is my reason of preference and for the next Worst if there are three variations okay this is my preference of course that preference was that singular thing the

single principle but he applied that principle to all those recitations and came up with a single version for each worse this reference so just to clarify to for some people who may be not so privileged to fully understand the discourse that in the time of Earthmen radi allahu on when he had laid out a kind of template for the quran it was a consonantal kind of template which because of not having vowels could be read if you try to read it let's say you could read it in a different way

like if i it's not a good example but like this approximates like let's say today text message language WT would be what but it could be wit it could be wet it could be now people would normally know if i said what you doing they you know they wouldn't think wit or what you doing but if somebody who wasn't may be privy they could start reading it differently is this and then people are sometimes inheriting these varied readings by people and certain people are choosing they kind of like saying well I'm adopting this part from

this person this part from this person and they then get quite popular with it so now if it as an example and ask him as an example a semi Robin a true then different people hamza and Kasuri these kind of these several but let's say seven who become really popular they choose they end up becoming the kind of the vocal piece for a particular select reading is this what we're this is what we're saying yeah doctor okay but you know here comes the question that okay so from these seven let's say and they may have been many more that we're doing it but these seven who get popular

you've got another like this kind of to reciters from them now there's Huff's who takes this person who kind of recites from from Assam and this is this is the main reading of the Quran today now awesome does have another student as well a bucket of Nadia yesh who would have some variations how does half son ask him from these fourteen become the correlate for what is the para at alarm on the other thirteen miss it how does that happen mark is the elephant in the room so my

teacher remedies have actually has tried to solve this riddle and his is I would say his thesis is that huffs was the only person who read the Parata Lama without adding his if they are without adding his his preference from the various choices that he had the rest they they added their if they are they chose from different readers from different Sahaba and they made up their own selection house was the only person so so before actually I collaborate on this let me also this okay that's very very very fascinating because I you know I do you have that answer before okay

these feeders were actually very adept they wanted to have the latter of the Arabs so all of them they copied the Arabs you'll see that most of them are non Arabs they are they're from different countries from Iran from from the across the nations so they wanted that they should the Quran should be read in the larger in that in the accent and the dialect of the Arabs so they would they would have this this pronunciation as close as they could and each of them had their distinction and what each of them did was that not only they had their own larger which they thought they were to be copying from the Arabs so each of them also exercises if they are which of course ever said was the choice that they had in selecting

from various feelings it appears that Huff's was the only person who did not and this is expressly stated in history as well that he just presented whatever was the reading of above the Romano tsunami of course was some some he inherited from in the time the postman the same reading on vicious man had gathered our people on the Muslim so he's the only person who maybe try the larger he try to teach people in the latter of the Arabs without adding any if they are without adding any profit you know here this a question that we've that would be faced with you know once if saying that and

that is that obviously these people they are exercising this license to kind of you know choose from here this still fit what you didn't fit they call self it like choosing like let's say I want I want to pray I'm gonna take this part I'm gonna put my hands here like the chef at ease but I'm gonna do this like the hanafis I'm gonna do now by them doing that demonstrates without stating it the fact that they believed that that was something permissible to do right absolutely so you see this is one of the reasons that these Korat were given sanctity or they were regarded to be a sacred was the Hadees itself and general

Quran Allah Sabbath or whatever because one of the interpretations of some other ahead of is that there are seven variations amongst the garage seven different types of variation for example in wide Jamaa for example in 1330 for example in the vowels coming at a certain place so one of the reasons which sanctioned this garage was this Hadees according to them they said that the Quran has been revealed in seven our roof and these are basically out of that we have and the next part of the Hadees is baccarat is aluminum which means that you can adopt anyone which is appropriate for you so this is the this is the choice which was given the only thing is that it was not given to

everyone only people of insight were given this and as you said that Abu Bakr image I only selected seven of them before them we have thumri actually selecting 30 readings we have above where passiveness alarm selecting 25 so there were different people who had had the only thing was that cause in Baghdad he what he became very popular table Mujahid and he was also state emissary or the state he had a state position as well so his his selection his choice was as if it was being adopted by state authorities so it it received a lot of impetus and hence you find it his choice prevailed

and because of the ünzile quran saba are these in cause the fact that they were receiving various narratives which had these ha ha this Quranic verses piecemeal so they said that okay on the one hand we have the permission from the Prophet which says read any of these 7ro and on the other hand we actually have those other of in data being before us so we're just applying the Hadees on that data and choosing a chromatic Esther I mean though the way we would like to you know put it there's still another interesting

question here if we take this this understanding of let's say the Kyra I was always one and then it correlated with have some awesome because and that was actually that's a very good explanation why because I was thinking how would you get past this point and and you did get past that that's definitely and so I didn't know that response before but there's an interesting question here though dr.

Czaban that is you see so for example the ledger or a look at garage okay the larger of Korus now where the prophet was originally karashi from Koresh now they wouldn't pronounce the hamza in many things so this is why Navia for example doesn't pronounce the hamza but some of the traditions that we see we let's say sometimes they say of a worker or sometimes they say last man when they were compiling the Quran they said you know when you disagree when you disagree and say it disagrees with you you know - boohoo B look at the quarry SH write it as H liked our booth is an

example they disagreed on and and they said look writer our quarry she would say so if this was going back to how just how the Prophet himself would have read it and it was revealed to him we know generally most you know linguists would write that declaration never used to say their Hamza's on a lot of the words they would kind of blend it just as a as a foul so like they wouldn't say not mean they would say mu'min why why is half son awesome is clearly not that Arabic it's one that pronounces the hamza you see as far as the ledger is concerned it has nothing to do with

the Preferences of the Sahaba which means that there are themselves these this is just a way to pronounce it's like the telephone it's like what makes a party out of someone as far as the variation that themselves are concerned whether you pronounce it at moment or movement it doesn't change the meaning the word is just hat it just has a variation in pronunciation s times orphans are the word has a morphological variation the word is the same but you have different pronunciations so you see the important thing is that Lajja could be anything the word does not change but in the piraha what happens is that the word changes you see

instead of whoa ah we don't find our instead of rub we find maybe a pronoun so you have to make this distinction that in Lajja the word never changes it's just a manner in which you pronounce the word with changes but in the quran art it is it is the verb it changes so here comes something more significant I can easily go along for example you're a person who lives in Britain you have an accent of a British Englishman and if I go to Australia they'll be speaking English but they'll be speaking English in in a way that they would twist and they would prolong certain words but the word itself would not change it's just the Mazarin issue

you actually pronounce that word so pronunciation is something which is it is acceptable but the change of words is thing it is something which is really significant and it of course means that the word has changed my my point yeah I mean absolutely the kind of question more hinged on if they were trying to do it exactly how the Prophet did it presumably the Prophet would have read like how without Hamza's and things presumably this because this is how if we're saying that this karate Lama goes back and everybody really just wanted to read how the Prophet read and it was

only in one way then why is that the popular one let's say the have some awesome or the karate Lama not like the dialect like it's like imagine I had something and people said we want to do this exactly how Mufti did it we want to speak just like Mufti and we're gonna write in just the way he wrote but then years later they actually writing is pronouncing in an American Way but attributed it to me I'm curious like that question why you're not into exactly how the Prophet but because you see this is one of the areas in which this leverage was given to you you were allowed to make this variation as I said

the words orphans up exactly have the same meaning that's a morphological difference just it's just it's just a way in which the same word is given two different sets so I would say that even if the ledger has not preserved the word because it does not change small obscene the way we speak the words I've seen which mean that how you do it in a beautiful and in a better way when you are pronouncing something and another thing but which is important is that also whether the Koresh did not have Hamza or not this itself needs to be established because this is an assumption which has been put forth and I would I wouldn't say that this needs to be examined further that the Quraysh

SL Lamia miss as it is said that could not do it with the Hamza so in the first place I think that needs to be examined and the second place even if it is established I would say it has something more to do with the tough scene or the way which things progress it does not change the world the important point is the word should not change and even if there's the variation which the Prophet himself allowed then that variation is acceptable because one thing that I because many years ago when I was studying I not this particular issue but I struggle linked with this I struggled with this whole thing so I did a lot of

research into you know why was the default Quran not reflecting lot o Quraysh but then one of the understandings I kind of arrived at was that there was a kind of standardized Arabic form which which wasn't like so when the Prophet was speaking formally it was on that standardized level and it wasn't on the kind of local level so just as like let's say in Pakistan today when people want to speak formally they speak Urdu otherwise they might speak there I mean that's slightly different because they've got other languages it's not just a dialect but in a similar some

kind of approximation analogy that there was this standardized Arabic which did have the Hamza even though presumably Quraish may not have you know used arms are much but when the Prophet spoke for people in general or the Quran being very formal it came in the standardized Arabic I don't that was something that I kind of eventually settled with that understanding after reading so many different things yeah but okay so if we're taking this this approach let's say this you know all these manuscripts

today I know there is a whole you you've got a whole section on manuscripts in here as well all of these differences all of these things to do with the extra pronouns the replacement of words you know like things like let's say the linemen mom do the tell him mom dude or whether it's through to whether it's born on its whether it's you know these kind of Zakir l say how these kind of words that there are completely different words they're not even even though there's similarity meanings like Malachy ami Dean maliki yawmi T in that kind of stuff what this is all a it's

it's in essence like the person's best attempt that's what you're saying it's not the actual recitation right so you see as I said this this is the the important thing regarding recitation is that the word can should not change the way you pronounce that word is something of a variation which is which is allowed which is something which is I would say a very natural thing because you're not always reading as if you will read Inglot like like the King's English or the Queen's English you would have that variation a Pakistani or a silicon or an Indian would have its own accent so act I would say the word accent is a better

representative of this whole thing the accents are something which are always something which is a leverage which is given to us the important thing is that the word must don't change and in the Corrado armor you'll find that the word has not changed sure in but in all these manuscripts where they have got word differences like based on this Kyra art and other geta art as well that people are bringing today like I know and it's not like some let's say Islam critics today on YouTube they will say look we've now got 30 I think 37 they're saying we've got moths and

look they've got variations and this is this this in essence your response to this is that you're going with the approach that well these were all if they had the real absolute one is just one which is half which is what we have in in main what is prevalent have some awesome if I if I can cool it have some awesome so that's what you're saying so what I'm what we are saying is basically that these manuscripts were bound to exist because when people started reading on these variations it was but natural to have them written

down yeah so people start discovering these manuscripts which have for example the eating of knafeh or the art of reading of awesome or hums or Kasai or a plumber it's but natural because they just did not preserve this crowd mainly through their oral tradition they wrote those muscles down there these Messiah existed the only thing is that when they wrote those Messiah it was not just purely Ishta hard which played its role because you see there is one group of scholars would say that we cannot do is the hard on these things and the sanction of the Prophet must be there so you see the criteria of the terawatt if you if you just delineate those three criteria one of them is that the Arabic should be correct the second

is that sahasrara do that it must have a chain of narration which goes back to the Prophet which in other words mean that you just cannot do it so hard I mean it's the hard part is that in which you prefer one reading of it over the other but you just cannot have a reading which is it is like saying that okay it's my own reading and if even if the Prophet never read it or this how I did not read it I can do which the heart because people have been doing this as well yeah so mr.

Hollis is only on that part in you have a reading who's son and it goes back to the Prophet and you have more than one reading of the same verse so you're doing this too hard by preferring or the reason you have for that preference that is yeah and and just so people know that you know in this topic in this whole and this is a as you know many scholars is baffled so many scholars but this whole arena to do with godard variations the Quran the language the kora the art of the harshest people against or that have been the harshest I don't know if that's

the right word but that have been very I mean they obviously it doesn't mean the anti Islam but harshest critics have been Muslims in the past you'll find a lot of the grammarians from Basra were very kind of in fact they even mocked some of the hora so about this man al Mazen II for example he mocks the huge grammarian huge you know like coming just off this Seba way and people like that he in the generations just after him he mocks people like Natha says now if it was not even a true Arab didn't know Arabic properly they mock Hamza as a young I think they say he made a grammatical mistake in the novel of

because he separated the mobile family feel a import the role in between so they say you know I think the utter la ilaha him Sherlock at home kind of splits this verse by saying putting cut Allah Allah that whom should occur him and they said what on earth is this this guy doesn't even know arabic and they were really think you know the boss at which today actually standard arabic is is probably like 90% based on Basara grammar but they were actually so harsh in criticizing and it was much later grammarians like Abner Malik who were very embracive and you know they they were embracing the Sun as well as

evidence and stuff but yeah I just want to mention at that point that these people had been very critical of these flora so okay I mean you know I want to ask I'd like as well if we can and take a few questions from people that are asking I'll read them up but before we come to that if that's okay tops um I want to ask you look you know this by the way for I have said to people obviously we I'm not sure if you're aware I wouldn't think you are away my own position on this has been slightly different i although have agreed and do agree in in view with Randy Saab on many things and agree with

him that the Kyra at or not motivator in that sense my view has been that the Quran was always dynamic and it was meant to be dynamic and that meant in some ways there was a there was flexibility with it and this does disturb some people today but it's like how Imam Malik and you mentioned in your book as well that you know in my Malik Imam Shafi'i and I think you even put I think even at a me as well was of the view that certain there was flexibility to the extent that that some companions could substitute words they could say well you

know they could there was a word that was easier for them they used to substitute it and that was one of the interpretation of our oath and sabar obviously in my understanding just means multi it's like there's a dynamism to it and it's multiple you know it's not restricted but yeah but this wasn't you know I'm more interested right now in having in presenting this understanding of yours and presenting what Hamid eSAB has to say because I find it very interesting as well and I wanted to really truly understand it but I just put that out there just for people that you know because I have on Monday nights been expressing my view in case they

think iced tea sob confusing us he's saying one thing being here but there's a question here I want to ask you dr. Salvin that is that well you know with this view that the poor are the Quran was just one it was static always it was absolutely the way we have the must have today the Quran it was the Kira at allama and it just happened to coincide with half son as him and all the other manuscripts were people's best attempts getting it right but they didn't really do you expect you know like as for non-muslims orientalists Islam even

Islam critics who may not be against Islam do you you know their question will be that do you really expect us to by that I mean is that not way too convenient of a response well you see I think that the the conclusion is not as important as the reasoning which a conclusion offers I think regardless of what the conclusion is we should analyze the reasoning of what led us to form this opinion it would have its own flaws no one is perfect and I'm sure there must be a lot of flaws so I think instead of approaching through the result the approach must be through the

reasoning which led us to this result it's not like a reverse engineering in which you see that because the result is very convenient and hence you think that it was something maybe already engineered so I think in in the first place truths are very simple and often they are right below your nose and you tend to overlook them because you think that something more complicated should have been there and to start generally very simple and the second thing as I said is that it's basically the process of reasoning which has led us by by for example presenting the fact that these Sudama verses they had a specific meaning which eluded a lot of our Taba

and our Saha in our later generations because they stuck to a particular interpretation of those surat yama verses which was in the light of an author attributed to even a boss which itself I have shown is not very soundly attributed to him it has a lot of flaws in it not only it it's not but the content as well but because of the fact that our Muslim Ummah has been more Hadees centric and they think that they cannot understand the Quran unless a Hadees is presented and they cannot go against it so that particular surah Yama verse remained in Oblivion for a long time until a scholar came along and said well it's so simple that you just missed

the point you've missed the bus and you've taken the wrong bus so it's like like a person coming along and telling you that hey look open up your eyes that some new reality before you and of course if we don't expect people to immediately fall for that because as I said it's centuries and the 14th century the overview which we are pitted against so therefore if someone has a different view we should analyze it we are not very it's not an ambition that people should accept it the only thing is that if the thing is not cogent then we would expect a academic answer and academic critique that would be most important

than the most welcoming thing which will help us also build upon our flaws and it's like a combined quest it's not my quest it's like mullah Baba and many other people fooling in and presenting their view analyzing it and creating some part of it telling us that for example this this this argument is flawed or this argument is correct and it's like it's like a combined effort that we should put forth without claiming ourselves that we are the ones who have discovered something it's just a humble presentation done by for I serve as a student of the Quran and if you think it is incorrect it would be of the fitting and very very welcoming if

we are made known that for example this is how it doesn't go against many of them accepted principle so I think the approach is important and not a result now of course and the methodology like you're saying is is paramount I've in my understanding and I've said this on my Monday nights with Mufti show that look I felt that the problem I know recently this has become a hot topic and it's bothering people but I felt that it's not this is not the problem the problem is that that we have to unlearn some of the things we've learnt and in my understanding and this is obviously

slightly different in my understanding that in the 19th century especially and the early 20th century with the rise of modernity and colonialism there was and this is I mean this is this parts of fact I mean it's not that that's not my opinion that there was a global kind of with relief with people of religion especially Muslims anchors and Christians there was this attempt to entrench themselves further in fundamentalism to stabilize their identity in the face of modernity so you start seeing a rise of fundamentalism and a lot of slogans like Islam is this is a way of life Islam is the solution

to all your problems Islam is this and in contrast to the manifesto of modernity or colonialism of the Bible the Quran is absolutely vowel for what vowel the you know what we've what we have has been preserved - it's very dot I felt that it was that era that really cemented this kind of this Creed and now what's happening is as information is generally become more accessible and certain manuscripts are being found it's it's become bothersome but I felt that this slogan in and of itself was not actually a traditional

slogan that early Muslims had they kind of were quite comfortable with saying look so what if it varies it's it's still the same Quran in essence it's kind of like saying in and I've given this example of saying like in in chemistry things are you know from molecular perspective they're either solids fluids or gases but then you do under certain circumstances you could get like potassium which is a solid but under a certain temperature it could atomically also be a liquid and a solid simultaneously so the Quran for them was preserved whilst at the same time

allowing differences so it's like yeah I mean that was just just food for thought that's how I kind of saw this but yeah I'd like to come to some questions and I know I know it is very very late over the adductors up but I think people would love to kind of be able to pick your brains on some of these things so if we could take some questions somebody said all right let me just bring up these questions right people if you've got some questions you can feel free to post them I'll get dr.

Saba inshallah respond to them as much as as is possible somebody said I don't think people should discount West in academia and you should look at it without a confirmation bias that what you're doing is this in essence a confirmation bias so you see it's not something that we have being at because of some Western criticism or maybe something which they have brought before us much before that this B we are alive for the situation we already know about these variations it is only in the last maybe 250 years in which the West has

become much more aware of what's going on before that they didn't even know as I said in my quest it was never a question which was put forth to me by some Western scholar it was a question it was put forth to me by my own sources by my own history books by my own had these books so I think it's my my problem is not as much as an external influence or an external agenda it's basically my my belief or my view that I wanted to examine I found out that these inconsistencies that the way they have been reported in our history and these books they are in fact there and and then the other thing as you also said in this hour that these Western scholars

have done nothing but to extract those things from our own books and present them before us and tell them that look here you say that the Quran is a preserved book and you say that the God said I'm going to preserve this so either the claim is incorrect or this data is incorrect one thing has to be wrong because this data speaks the opposite so either you disown the data and stick to the claim or you own the data and forsake the claim so what we did in our in our history was that we stuck to both contradictory things we said no this is this is the correct data and the Quran is also preserved and we gave a shuttle call to speak so to speak and we snub them and we said that we are

better equipped to answer our own problems you go away and they did not realize that the Quran is not a book just for Muslims it's a book for mankind so if someone from mankind poses this question it is a responsive to our responsibility to give it answer not to give a shot of call and we have to tell them that is the book in which we as people who would like to read the file book of God the wave was revealed we have certain questions that are unresolved in our mind and though therefore it's a personal quest it's a personal journey that started off this whole project sure shukran now cuz of a question that

if Allah has taken it upon himself to preserve the Quran let's say we're taking this verse in anachronism then thicker when Allah Allah Hafiz on now in that case if we let's say we and the understanding is really the particular at the Quran I mean the Quran is let's say what we have today have son asked him but the fact that we have these are the kira art and the mainstream kind of popularized view is like let's say oh it's all motive out there and they and all these different things but you know what in and of itself is that not a kind

of lack of preservation because could allah have not preserved it without this confusion so you see this is where we have to understand perhaps a scheme of god the scheme of guarded that that he has given people the if they are the discretion to do what they like he does not he's not put a stop to how people behave and the way they react we have a very similar scenario in hadees as well in which people at times have worked up at least at times they have misreported the prophet at times they have misrepresented the Prophet the we all why he never stopped that because you see in the human paradigm his task was to preserve his bit and his task was not

to undo what other people were doing because that was part of their own mechanics so the Prophet the Almighty what he said and what he claimed was that I for my part have done done what I was liable to and you for your part have been given this opportunity that there is this preserved Quran now you have to work your way towards it and they're going to be obstructions they're going to be problems but then it's not that it's unresolvable the only thing that is that you have to have that quest for the truth and you'll reach that truth barring that but the other things which exist in the name of the Quran of course these are the impediments which are caused by human intellect by human approach by human error and this is something which the almighty

has tolerated in every human Saphir whether it's religion whether it's non-religious affairs this is where the test comes from this is where the almighty scheme is basically he's not driving people to do what right or wrong is he's given us the choice to do the only thing is that he has done his bit by preserving what he thinks is the real Quran what he is real for those of you asking right about me I mean my understanding is that this what we have today the Quran is from the Quran which would be an umbrella kind of revelation which allowed variations so

what we have from it is from it it but they would have been other ways to have read it as well that may have disappeared either with the prophets shortly after maybe generations after but this is also it but this is not in my understanding it isn't the only thing that ever was but it is one way of reading it so that's my understanding so those of you asking he was a quick question for dr.

Sam I think this would be very straightforward somebody had asked that the question if you were to write a blank if you were given a blank must-have and you were to rewrite the Quran how would it look today I mean in your understanding it would looks absolutely verbatim like the must-have today anyway that's absolutely absolutely and to be honest with you that question even though I do believe in the dynamism of the Quran but in that understanding I too would just be doing exactly the same thing because it is the Quran in my understanding as well so right okay here's another question

knocks out the the verse of rajim how do you how do you explain that coming in some of the hadith that said no Omar or other people felt it was a verse of the Quran what is your thoughts on this I think here again I've cited meeting thrice or he is actually presented a solution and you said that basically rajim is something which is based on the Quran although it's not exactly found in words in the Quran the surah surah - I think it's verse 33 or 34 which says in the ladina your heart even Allah have a rasullah of the

famous maharba verse which says that people who indulge in maharba one of their of it prescribes for punishments for them and the first of them is a new path aloo algis and the second one is oh you sell Daboo so you cut aloo means to kill someone in an exemplary way and that of course Rajab is something in which you kill someone to make that person an example that it's something really bad for example you rape women or maybe rape children so one of the punishments of maharba is that so when the when oma desala anhu was talking about that regime worse he was not talking about a worse which mentioned rajim by name he

was in all probability referring to the fact that this rajim the the worst of surah maidah on which the Prophet derived rajim is something which which is always there it was it was not something of a separate verse it was a derivative of that verse so Omar actually was referring to that and I have shown in my in that article which relates to its a chapel goal in completeness of the Quran in which the rajim words is discussed I have shown how this muhabba worse was the one which Omar was referring to and people mistook it for the regime worse or a shake over Shaffir - which of course is something which is not even in the Quran do you

feel it was then abrogated or it still continues as an exam every a shaker wash a guy's not even it's Arabic no it's not not the verse the regime itself so it's there it's still there even today if you want exemplary punish someone for for these extreme crimes that they do but Allah means to kill someone in the same way and rajim is one form of that exemplary punishment is still there okay sure I mean just for people who I mean you know may be familiar with my views and I've explained it in the pasture slightly differently my understanding has been that rajim was never introduced by the Prophet but in

the hadith in Sahih Muslim it's condoned from the Jewish practice when the Prophet says ok remove your hand and they they will what are you covering up about stoning now it was condoned until the verse of the Quran was revealed in my understanding that you know about lashing for the was there was a well now here and the proof I felt that the verses that follow after that when Allah speaks about the slaves he says that well Marcin a teen is phenomenal either that those who are married slaves will only get half the punishment and there's no such thing as half of stoning now

that said in the Maliki method there were certain scholars in the seven eight hundreds especially a possible Buzzelli who was in northwest Africa and he was one of the Sheryl Islam's of his time now poor Julie's fatwa in line with the mal KEMA tub and makka seat is that sharia mandates that the ha dude change so he had at that point he caused a huge debate but he had actually substitute he said it wasn't him he was saying that the Sharia is mandating itself that because the day and age has changed all the her dude would change so they substituted them with financial penalties so there was him there was a

there was quite a few of his kind of students as well and then this carried on in northwest Africa for a while in the East with Solomon opononi from the Ottomans who substituted the hadith with other penalties so my understanding was these things with trajectory hermeneutics do change but that just to and I would in the future at some point love to kind of because I'm not sure exactly what comedy subs a view is on on these things I've heard some of his clips but they're not I just haven't fully crossed if he's saying exactly what I'm saying or if he's saying that they should just be suspended today because they're not match up to the day and age I I'm not sure if you do want to comment or we want to leave that for

another day we can for that because that would need some more detail of course we have a view regarding Islamic punishments I think they are still valid the only thing is there are certain conditions would need to be meet and we need to be met and these are ultimate forms of proof and as far as regime is concerned it is absolutely erroneously understood that it's just meant for married adulterers that is something which is a error of interpretation that has resulted Rajyam is meant for a lot of things which relate to maharaja and facade kill argh and one form is that a person does not I mean deserve any leniency when he commits this act so people thought that rajim is meant for only adult adulterers

who are married and here we actually have a different approach other than that as far as all the hurdles are concerned we have a specific view and if you would like to talk about it that would be a whole topic but yeah that's absolutely amazing a quick another question going back to the topic by Joe Bloggs Salaam how much importance do you give to the Senate of how FAR's which trace back to the Prophet I is not from someone who memorized from someone so you know in the Quran they also have this Senate as well like an ijazah how much importance and Joe is asking do

you give to that that's the only importance is that that person is testifying that my teacher was this person and who read it from the other person it does not have any importance as far as authenticating a text in its totality is concerned because you see that preservation is by a vast number of people who are doing the same thing all the fasts taking together one half is taken singularly has no significance because that is like a drop enough among in the ocean so it's like the whole ocean contributing to one to one thing so taking taking it separately would not be of any significance but when it forms

part of a greater chain of course it has used significance yeah very well said very well said dr. mashallah just somebody had just asked me again I suppose this is just for me they'd asked me about if the criteria was met today would I advocate would I advocate chopping the hand I wouldn't because according to me all of this the Sharia with Makka see it's already changed like trick I have a whole video on trajectory hermeneutics so with in my understanding and that of these my lackeys at work are similarly in the past and these scholars the Sharia who do would have changed so they would be whatever the day and age so today punishment a

sentences and fines and things like this okay the question somebody's asked doctors are veneers asked eponymous ODEs version of the Quran do you believe it was substantially different from the common killer and the Quran we have today absolutely not because I have shown in my book that the narratives which are ascribed to apply Masood Azhar which he did not find surah fateha' or the mob is a time to be part of the Quran they are erroneously ascribed to them to him and they have problems in their description they have problems in their snar they have problem and they content and abdullah al masud and

ob-ivan acaba and all the major companions they they actually vouch for the same Quran and we even have people like I'm forgetting the name yes I got the name gobble cosy he was a Baba of consent he said that I found three currents in which the one of them was of the love of their boss the other one was from Hawaii niqab and the third one was from kul Elna Masood and none of them deferred anywhere they had exactly the same number of verses and they were they were total matching to each other so I think that as far as the beloved nemesis is concerned he is he's been wrongly

understood and these you guys can't see but these were the pages I'd been going through that just the other day all on up dilemmas roots you know variation of the Quran and and you do that very well and as a brief summary I mean it does speak about that there's nothing clear that what the debate was about was it them I was a team because you know could it be that none of his students transmitted from and even though 2/3 of them do briefly but they don't nobody really you know this should be a known thing SHINee and and I love how you brought it down and through some of the rear Wyatt showing that was the

difference on the word cool in the mob of the team that's a an absolute gem I thought that was an amazing part that's through some narrations they were discussing the quarry of Gulu you know cloud up in Nassau fella so was that part of the revelation or not and was this even emotes contention but once again that is in much in great detail mentioned in the book right does the Koran not have okay I don't know if that's a legitimate question does the Koran not have copyright laws it does not it does not

have copyright laws people I'm surprised at the idea that dr. Shaheen has said the idea is that one must have valid chains of narration to become really popular since common people don't usually care for chains of narration for the Koran I'm not sure where the question is in that okay so on manuscripts not having the huffs Kira I think it's probably to do with the fact that by the time people started putting diacritic marks hmm is it like is I suppose the question is is the variations in the Koran because of not

having diacritic marks well one of the reasons as I said that there are several reasons I have enumerated them in my book so another reason is because of the lack of diacritical marks there was some similarity in words as well sanctioned by this knowledge you see thoroughly moon and yalla moon was caused because of the fact that their diacritic was not present above and below and both had and it's not traced back to the Prophet as well so you could have read thoroughly moon and you could have already around the moon and of course in the absence of these diacritic marks and because of the fact that both readings were were

ascribed to the Prophet we have two hats have some other preferential criteria and that was exercised as well excellent the person are repeating though I've we've already answered the question on rajim and yes to be clear it's not there's no verse in the quran of rajim neither do you nobody would say that because it's not a first in the quran what you what you were referring to just to be clear for the person will is that the verse on muhabba and these things could incorporate the concert HM not that the verse of rajim is in that verse it's not just to be clear you know noctus I wasn't saying that the

actual verse of rajim is there right okay somebody's asked okay I'll take some people are saying don't ignore the Facebook questions I'm not because I've got both of them open here YouTube Facebook if the Quranic language do you believe it to be miraculous and how are there multiple versions if it is miraculous I mean do you you know people say the quran is a miracle is there a miracle and and why how so because people today are asking this question I know that could be an incredibly detailed I understand that and but I mean are they some pointers you would just put out straight away do you feel

like some people say numerical value they say mathematical matrices they say you know that do you feel these things also reflect that or not I would not say I don't think so that the mathematical relationship and solve the other thing these people have said I think it's it's it's a linguistic miracle the way this the language has been employed the way it has been arranged the way verses have been set apart and the way the whole discourse progresses it speaks for itself that it cannot be a human composition so you see but you speak about a miracle you actually say something which is beyond human approach and it does look like the Quran when it

speaks of the philosophy it speaks off the language in which that philosophy is couched the manner in which certain details are presented so that has a cumulative effect to make it a piece of literature in which of course it cannot be copied it cannot be it cannot be emulated in any sense of the word so it's miraculous nature actually depends on its linguistic aspect in which it's a miracle himself I mean and those people in my response just to kind of add to doctor Saab where I had been asked about is the Quran a miracle I had said yes it

is a miracle but it's it's not a miracle in in the sense it depends what we mean by miracle to me I've said yes it is miracle on a number of factors one is a subjective experience that a person has when reading the Quran that is sublime that kind of the impact it has to how it has motivated and served as the backbone of a civilization is nothing short of a miracle now in these senses I've said that the quran is a miracle

not in the sense that like some people are saying look it proves something scientific therefore only God could have come up with something that speaks about let's say I don't know the aspect of embryology or they're saying this could not have been understood by anybody to me those parts are amazing yes but they're not necessary I wouldn't say that is the miracle per se I would say the miraculous nature is more one to do with the subjective to to do with the social aspect of what it did with Islam and it continues to do and three I would say I have been wowed and from the linguistic perspective by certain things

like I have been won by the composition of course and its impact but even certain things like how the Quran like when people have looked at it today and they've said that by the way it has an equal mention of let's say dunya and akhira spread out over the Quran it has an equal mention of those of belief and those of this belief spread out not like juxtapose because that would be that would be easy if I said you know by the way dunya an out here because I'm saying I'm together but if you take the whole Quran it reflects a you know a balance still this meson that you can find I feel that if you do hold let's say with these kind of things this symmetry

because symmetry is one of the highest forms of aesthetic beauty in this world if you do feel that this was invented by the Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu listen but a certain let's say non-muslims would feel okay was the invention of Muhammad's a Larson then it would mean that he was you know of a genius beyond comprehension so that that's to me that to just get this soul spot-on in place I find that Wow so in this sense well a miracle not in the sense that is bending

the laws of nature but yeah just to somebody saying right now that's yet that you've already answered the question on the get out and which Cara I was first introduced in India or the Indian subcontinent dr you I don't not sure if that's something you see that which had the invent of that Korat took place very earlier on when Huff's was not even born I mean that's about the second century of Islam when he was when he was living and he died in around 169

eh which itself shows that the karov hubs he later came to be dubbed the karate lama later came to be dubbed as the wrath of thugs so I think that rod which was which entered the subcontinent and it went over to Malaysia and to Indonesia and some of the Far East countries it was the Karaka Lama and I've also showed in my book that you'll see that the the territories of presume then the non Arab territories all of them had the karate Lama or the which we now called as the turtle Huff's it was only in the Arab territories where these Arab scholars existed in which they would battle or they would have those

those contests in which various garage would be read and they would be preserved in their own books that we have that area of the the a Bollywood or of which has thoughts those Quran as far as the column will assume are concerned in order Arab countries you'll find that none of them have these variations simply because it was the masses who came and brought the Quran with them and the masses all already always had the colossal hama so you so you can even make a rule that whenever the scholars were introduced first and they were the ones who went to a territory it was always a ill-will hasad Rioja saw or Gareth of a particular Imam but wherever

the masses came first as a conquest may be or may be like for example they were business people who went to Indonesia in all these countries it was the karate lama which was always prevalent and somebody is asked once again we have covered this but they've asked so simply put are you saying the Quran is preserved perfectly as it was revealed and yes I do yes absolutely categorically so the Quran was preserved and to sum that up what what doctor Saab has expansively researched in his book

and his whole he's got a whole series of lectures as well available on YouTube about that as well about the whole nature of the Quran and and topics related to the Quran but to sum this up what we've been discussing in your point of view today it is safe to say doctors have that the Quran from what you're teaching the Quran has been preserved perfect I would say most Muslims agree absolutely on on that point that the Quran has been preserved but you're saying it's being preserved this recitation we have today was the recitation I mean it was the recitation of the prophet sallahu salam and of the

quran as it was set in the with the finality in the final year of the prophet salallahu alaihe salam this was said this was called the character i'm this is what was transmitted the concert and the Continental kind of template that was man provided did allow for certain variations of reading that may be like way you place vowels which may have led to which was partly contributed to what became the different kara art in addition to other variables you've mentioned as well but this have Sun Assam was the Kyra atoll Amma all half

state was he didn't kind of do any of that HD had or take any adopt any choices if the errata he just went with the turtle Alma that's why it correlates perfectly any manuscripts that are being found today they are simply reflecting those Kara out but they are not the Quran which is what we have today preserved in the books and as you've mentioned the lands of the Aegean where people went from you know ground up they bottom up that they did have this general garage this is what you're saying so right okay so I think that's I know we've taken up so much of

your time dr. Zab and I'm so grateful for you for sharing this time with us because I I seriously can't repeat that enough you know cut a little sugar I love sugar but I'm so indebted for that I would love to inshallah do a follow-up session if we can at some point we're out love to go over the main themes you've discussed in your book this book the history of Quran a critical study by dr.

Shahzad Salim it is available iswe on Kindle I did purchase the Kindle copy as well and then I purchased them the original from I couldn't actually find it on Amazon but by the way the hard copy so I'm not sure if that's something you're gonna provide to Amazon but I eventually found it from the more it website is there another place they can order it as well is that the best place well in the u.s.

it's available at Amazon I'm not sure why the UK Amazon does not have it because it has been sent to the Amazon website so people have been buying in the US I am Not sure price tour in the UK but as you said that the Morris website it has a number as well so maybe he's been wrong so I mean because I wanted a hard copy and I got the Kindle one from Amazon and then I found it on Modric website and it came to be fair came pretty fast they sent it very fast so this party is definitely for anybody who's a serious student in this field like somebody wants to take this seriously and they they they kind of

into studying about Islam because if you're an absolute beginner might be overwhelming I get that but if you're somebody who takes you know some interest in some deep learning of Islam then it is a must I would definitely advise that you kind of purchase it you buy it there is another summary that I've written off this book it's a very short executive summary score Islam a critic a concise study of this G of the Quran so it's like a mini version of this people would not like to go in very many details so it's like 150 page summary of what this bigger books about it's called history of the Quran the concise study

Wow okay people so that's for for all of you then those of you want to go deeper a critical study and those of you that want just an understanding a concise study I would say look even if even if you don't 100% agree with the with the understanding you have a slightly different interpretation it's still a must to read through because this what I found and what I loved about it obviously it's it's it's academic it's full of it but it's not dogmatic you know you're not being okay this is how it is people you you're being like look okay this is the discussion the most half of let's say Abdullah minimus old this is the

topic these are all the narrations this is what such-and-such has said this was such and such let's evaluate all of these and then there's just an objective kind of conclusion which is not preachy it's not kind of pushing it down people's throats it's just saying look this is my finding you know you take it or leave it himself can be my I do feel necessary I can be a son you know it's it's very much like that that's why I totally loved that I would love to if in the future you your schedule is available over the main topics the chapters in this if we could get a discussion I think people would benefit immensely and people if you till then can buy the book it would really help

your your own development and learning doctor sup if people want to reach out to you where is the best place to reach out to you I will have got an email I've got a whatsapp number they're most welcome I can give that number and I don't want you to get spammed or you see this with this that I I mean I do answer all all sorts of questions but because I have four live sessions every week so I do encourage participants that if they have a general question it's more related to those topics that I am teaching otherwise if they have a

specific question regarding the history of the Quran because is my passion so I always I would give preference to people who have such a question because it's a very very complicated debate and it gives a lot of thrashing out I would say where do you have these sessions for the viewers you have them on Facebook I have them on on Facebook and on my program I mean what's your so your profile names and if you want to share your email and you if you want to show you mobile number by all means go for it whatever you want to share now for the viewers I'm just it's just I'd be like what's that number

oh no people will be just but I mean that's really I have to love the I love the openness I can give you the number and the email in how do you want it I mean all right it saw me first of all with the Facebook profiles it's just with your name is it Shahzad salim doctor so it's i think it's there are two Facebook profiles one is by the name of shares are selling that's my personal profile but the public profile goes by the name of dr.

Shahzad Salim I think and it says something like video talk soft water is a Salim who just type this Shahzad Salim as I've written it on the and I will be also sharing it on my Facebook page as well your page so people get that and the email address that if people want to reach out on it is Shahzad dot Salim 99 at Gmail 99 at gmail.com right and people are saying we need the doctor's number of the if you want to this is only no pressure from me [Music]

this path should be clear that the whatsapp number is basically for questions regarding the history of the Quran and if you have other questions then I would refer them to the for forums that I take my classes on so yes I can give that whatsapp number but just for the history of the Quran questions sure okay so it's zero zero nine - okay 300 0 0 9 2 or plus 90 - 300 0 0 90 yeah 300 three hundred eight four two eight four two four four eight one four four eight

one people I've put that into the comments there you go it's on the YouTube comments that's please be respectful of dr. sob you know only genuine do not you know anything don't pester him don't kind of just harass doctors are blown kind of like oh you have to value people who've dedicated you know decades of their lives to studying the Koran to make it easier for other people out there so do respect that please right doctor would you like to give any final message to the viewers before where you wrap it up

for you I know it's really late by the way it's dr. sobs in Pakistan currently so you can imagine it's late over there isn't it's not a vampire like us so my final message would be that I think our responsibility is to become seekers of the truth and the way to seek the truth is critical thinking don't take things for granted don't take things because they've been told to you by the Society of eye or clergy or by your parents question everything analyze everything because in the end God is going to hold you answerable for what you believe and not what others believe and always stick to your opinions on the basis of

reasoning and not on the basis of emotions or dogma very beautifully said sugar and once again I'm ever so grateful you know may Allah preserve you bless you grant you great health I know right now it's a bit hectic in Pakistan as well with the whole kovat situation it seems to have erupted a bit later compared with you know the rest of the globe so you know may Allah keep you and your family in great health dearly appreciate this and we've got to follow this up definitely you know John Tucker demanded this so much so have a great night doctor Saab and the rest of you

people much love I'm going to put up my final page like subscribe share any comments leave them if you want to reach out to me you can use any of the four Instagram is probably the best one other than that people much love has always take very good care of yourselves or salam o aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakato