Does the Quran actually say the miracles happened?

So just right cuz this is how I I understand I I understand this and I've explained it that the stories in the Quran first of all the miracles that you've uh mentioned I've obviously said on almost all of these it's never actually said it's just understood like people kind of read between the lines and so for example the story of the table descending for Jesus the Quran never said that it was actually sent down it just said they asked for it and then they were threatened that are you sure you really want this because it's you know if you really want categorical proof then it's game over if you don't uh and then mus it doesn't say anymore

so here people assumed it then was it descended but it never actually said it's it's descended now similarly with all the miracles I've explained that it's on most of them this is what what's happening people are reading between the lines because it's being presented as a story now however ever. These were uh real people. These were uh real events.

They may not be how people today assume them because we've got a lot of baggage. So when we're reading something about Jesus, you know, we've got a lot of baggage from Western societies, from Christianity, from maybe it wasn't like that because what was a person, you know, maybe there was it looked slightly different, but it wasn't like I've also argued that perhaps Moses was Aranatan.

But put these things aside, these were real people. The events when they're portrayed, I agree that that Allah is not trying to teach you geography. He's not trying to teach you history whilst he's doing it. He's not trying to teach these things. So it's just presented as a key theme so you can take a moral from the story. So let me then let me ask you this question. Um so I'm going to start with one comment and one question. So the comment is I actually and I know that many reformists and even modernists have gone in the direction of saying this is all baggage from Christianity.

That's the words you used and we need to go away from it and say that no the Quran itself is not affirming any of this. I actually am of the view because I I you know I'm in Quranic studies. I'm actually of the view that we are actually living in an exciting time in which we can understand intertextuality where in order to understand the Quran we actually have to look at the sources the Quran is engaging. No, I'm agreeing that's not what I was saying.

No, I I get it. But just one more one more question. Sure. Just just for that comment when I said Christian baggage. So what I I didn't mean that we need to divorce our understanding from what Christianity has taught us. What I meant was certain. So let's say as an example there is an understanding that Jesus never married. Mhm. Now this has never been taught to us. We just have this understanding.

Common sense would tell us any man in that day and age who had reached the age of 30 would have been married. So where do you get this understanding from that Jesus never married because he comes to Jerusalem at the age of 30? Now this is a developed understanding through an institutionalized faith worldview today that we have does the Quran say about anything about Jesus getting married?

No, it doesn't. So my but my my my point when I was saying baggage I was referring to the extra add-ons that we've put on through institutionalization not the stories of the Bible per se. I get it. But I'm actually moving in the opposite direction a little bit in the sense that if the Quran so what so in Quranic studies today uh historically Quranic western Quranic studies scholars many of them have come from Christian and Jewish backgrounds and they have said that the Quran is just derivative and then used the Bible as a standard to judge the Quran with and and then they said look the Quran gets this wrong gets this wrong gets this wrong it's a garbage derivative

book that's what they have said now we have moved away from that view and many Christians scholars are now engaged in the academy who are doing great work um and what and what they're arguing is now that's no longer a respectable view to have anymore now what they're arguing and I agree with this view and it's not just Christians and Jews who have this view Muslims and and and non-believers have this view as well is that the Quran was revealed in a certain millu in which certain discourses were taking place yeah of course and the Quran is aware of these discourses and then it rearticulates them for theological purposes.

Exactly. Therefore, what I would argue is whether or not Jesus was married or not. I don't think that's relevant if the Quran is not rearticulating it. Um, if the Quran had rearticulated, it would probably do it not for historical reality but for theological purpose. Yeah. So that that was that was just a a poor example of me just giving a a you see just making a point that when we say prophetic stories we have the story but then we have a profile.

So now that profile may be from the biblical sources but it may actually just be from centuries of institutionalization. So we have to make that distinction. But I think the Quran is interacting with So the Quran is interacting with that institutionalization as you put it. That is to say, the Quran is engaging with the discourses of the time which include I agree with that. Which include the um not just the Bible understood in some ahistorical space, but rather as the understandings developed over time, the Quran is then uh engaging with.

So let me just ask you one question. Sure. And I think it's a hot topic so we can discuss it of course. What do you take of uh Vulcarnain? Okay. How do you understand the story of Vulcarnain and we know and you can give the background of why that's a hot topic nowadays. Okay. Uh okay. Um I mean uh if you'd like you don't have to. Right. No, I'm not sure why it's a hot uh Well, you know, she Yaser Kadi got in trouble for his statements about zombies.