Are paradise and hell in the Quran meant literally?

Is this what we're is this what you're uh purporting? Is this or just to be clear on where you stand on it? Okay. So in my class I actually someone asked me a very good question. They said I was now I was using the Islamic philosophers. I didn't say this was my view but sure. Okay. But no this is my this is my now we're behind the scenes and cuz it's [laughter] just it's just me and you here. There's no audience or anything.

Right. There's unfortunately a live audience. It's not going live. Oh my god. No. I'm just kidding. [laughter] You're like wait Miy isn't this the the pre discussion? Yeah. No no no. In my class, I had to as a teacher, I had to create some distance. So, I was only sharing the Islamic philosophers's view, but I agree with their view and I use their view to understand modern science and the issue of religion and science, the conflicts.

And Iban Rush is my uh starting point with that. Now what I would say is um one of the students in my class asked me they were like they were very open-minded and they said you're very this is very convincing stuff but what what about the danger of just thinking of everything as metaphor and then wouldn't you destroy all of religion in that way?

Was there that fear? M and what my response was was that um the opponents of the Islamic philosophers, they said that's exactly what these philosophers are doing. So it's not like it was a theoretical thing. They did accuse the Islamic philosophers of destroying all of religion in this way. I disagree. So even though I acknowledge that fear, I would respond as I rushed said.

So let's take a very standard example. the descriptions and we have to work our need answers. No, just carry on. It'll pick you up. It'll pick you up. Okay. So, we have to work our way through this. So, let's start with something that maybe we can get more buy in from an average Muslim. Yeah. Let's talk about the descriptions of paradise and hell in the Quran. Now, no. The reason the reason I was going to say that is because the the thing of paradise and the afterlife, I've already in much detail said that look, the afterlife is all symbolic because the texts say we can never fathom.

So, that part I I'm, you know, very clear on. Let me let me do my buildup so that I can sure. Okay. Sure. Land land the plane where I want to. So, so, so, so Iben Rush, so Gazali in his book, the incoherence of the philosophers with he wrote um he accused the Islamic philosophers of kufur on three points and one of those three points was the fact that they disbelieved in the corporeal uh rewards and punishments of paradise and hell.

M Iben Rush responded to uh Ghazali and even though I think Gazali is brilliant, I do think Iben Rush's um uh response was superior. And what there's your there's your plane now. Oh, is it? Oh, bloody hell. I'm going to sack that pilot. [laughter] So, getting carried away with me being lenient about my private jet.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um so what Iben Rush said the only thing that defines belief and unbelief is that we believe in paradise and the afterlife not how we believe in the details of the afterlife. And he even pointed out that Gazali himself has said that some of the Sufis disbelieve in the corporeal.

They think these are symbolic punishments and rewards. And we [clears throat] know that and we can just go through the text and understand that these are symbolic because is it just a coincidence that all of the descriptions appeal to people who live in the desert? Are we saying that that's exactly what people who live in Scandinavia they're going to that's what they get even though for them they would for them if they imagine paradise they would want beaches and sun and you know getting nice suntans that's how they would imagine whereas for an Arab person living in the desert it would be cool breeze that's the kind of thing you know gardens under which rivers flow

that's what they would imagine so so okay so now we have buyin that yes those I mean those things I think would be and I think that's by the way for people who are open to interpretations that's s I think that's quite simply palatable because once you say look the afterlife is something which is beyond human comprehension then obviously you the the fact that the Quran will give some form of of an imagery approximation to entice people just makes sense but stories are something of this world.

Yes. Okay. I get that. So yeah, what? Okay, so first of all, it's important to keep in mind they're not literally of this world. They're part of sacred time and sacred place. That is different than historical time that we live in now. Okay? So if you look at the Quranic stories, they don't give us any detail about what uh century they occurred in. Um they don't give us many they don't give us geographical details.