Muslim Scholars Allying With LGBTQ Community ? | Mufti Abu Layth

sorry no no much appreciated uh how are you doing I'm I'm greatly more importantly how are you and what thoughts are preoccupying your your precious mind Dr hash well thoughts are quite a bit but uh they are actually few that uh we both disagree on okay sure I've been listening you sure we all disagree on everything so we gota we gotta kind of you know I'm sure I'm sure i' I I say

to people sometimes that I disagree with myself on many things so you know other peopleim of course they will disagree with me I I disagree with myself but yeah your saying okay what are some of these first of all uh uh now finally I found how to interact with you I've been listening to you for few months maybe wow more okay but I couldn't find because of the time differences because I'm Saudi you're in UK oh wow you're in Saudi okay I should my first question sorry should have been where which normally is you know today

I'm a bit slow I think I didn't get you know the the coffee yeah it didn't really work on me today because my first question is usually where are you joining us from so uh that's I should have asked that so where in Saudi is it uh RI no no t t oh actual T wow okay so sorry car carry on okay so uh the thing is um this was the reason I couldn't find how to interact with you uh few questions are I'll come is a transgender because I know you have different different thoughts about the

things gays and lasbians lgbtq okay I I don't know do I do I have different thoughts I don't know means different from the mainstream Muslims okay I don't know do I no do I yeah I've heard a few things which you answer since you seem to know more about me than me but okay I don't know where I've said this I don't know where you've heard these but okay okay my point is that recently have seen few Muslim Scholars World well-known Scholars North in America and Europe they're

joining hands with the lgbtq and as we see in Quran it goes against the Quran then what is this this FNA Arabic FNA not Udu FNA sure and why why the scholars Muslim Scholars of especially all over the world i't seen except few like uh Daniel hu but he's not a scholar he a researcher like myself not big no big scholar have spoken or for against it or refuted it my point is that refuted what what what are we talking about the what what what

have they not refuted what is the thing we're talking about the the big scholar joining no no yeah but what are they joining like what is the thing they joining hands with what what is the what is the thing that they what's the topic of like what are we talking about when you saying they're joining hands with lgbtq what does that mean I what do what does that mean because they're giving an impression there platonic it's it's normal uh not u means like Humanity it's platonic or it's normal that lgbtq rituals that

Panic ritual uh yeah Panic ritual I have researched on that ritual P Panic Pagan rituals for yes they they draw they pour water on the ground but if you go into the OR research of this ritual it's very satanic and soorry what are we talking about what I don't understand what we're talking that event and are you talking about uh she what's his name uh she omaran this is what we're talking about feeling the but okay but what okay but what what have I got to do with she Omar San's doing I don't know what the

question I'm not the question is why the Muslim Scholars which are the wellknown scholar not refuting this act which he did that's why are they not refuting him spilling water joining hands with the priest of lgbtq and doing this Panic ritual right okay so look to be honest you know the I so just to understand the question right so do she Omar suan did something which is where he

went to some protest and he what what's the word of the of the the ritual but where they pour some water and this um has its roots in some Pagan practices now she omaran obv VI ly in his defense said look I uh I just went to the protest obviously we didn't know exactly what was going to happen I did what they did and to be honest they poured water I poured water I don't realize there's a history of uh some religiosity you know like if we're walking and you all touch this wall and I say all right am I supposed to touch it and you touch it and say oh my god did you know 400 years

ago uh there was an e a witch that used to touch this wall and you did it so I don't really know the history I'm just doing what everybody's doing so okay now this is the the story of it but I don't see why but personally what what she omaran does what what is that got to do with you're asking should we comment on it is this the question we should all why should we should we all be talking about it I don't see actually Scholars should say that this is wrong thing which he did scholars not commoners who are who don't have the was what was it called libation or something was it called like

Li I remember she uh I remember it was at the time when she omaran did this it was um it was beinged by exactly and he mentioned liation yeah that's it liation a drink poured out as an offering to a deity so okay the pouring out of a liation yep a drink a tequila is

also he probably did it as a tequila yard he probably this is I'm doing this he probably thought I thought we were going to lunch it's like a lunch break so look I don't think people have to condemn him if people want to cond name personally is it really some is this really that big of a deal somebody goes and pours some water and is it a big deal to you uh Abu Fatima do you feel that's a really big deal AB believe is because I'm a student of knowledge so so not big deal because I can I know that what he's doing is wrong I but the commoner people take him as a beam of

light understanding so do you feel do you feel that for example libation increased amongst the Muslim communities after Omar did it increase not liation didn't increase no no this is not that point point is joining hands with lgbtq promotes their agenda into Muslim Society oh so this isn't about the liation this is about what there were there were gay priests that were present and why did he join hands with G actual hands or as in he metaphorical hands as in he actual hand and

also was it NY NY was it whilst they were joining hands were they doing this I I I didn't look deep into this uh video was they like whilst they're standing there hands coming around on on the shoulder it's like it's like or so right okay so the question is Muslims should be uh anti-gay is this the question do you feel do you do you feel Muslim should be

anti-gay not that type of anti-gay okay there are two types of ant the religious the one is I don't know any of them tell us one is AB is the thing which we call Jal which is in Pakistan from where I belong and you belong that anything anything uh which goes against your uh uh perception of religion he should be killed or he should be destroyed or should be he should be killed killed clearly that's the thing

which I saw in Pakistan who should be killed Oh you mean Oh you mean like oh right okay you're saying people do this out of ignorance they attack people not that kind of so you're saying okay not okay so let's there should be no violence no persecution no abuse nothing like this but you shouldn't support their right to be gay this is what you're saying okay no no no no no no again wrong oh no okay they are free they can okay they so you do support their right to be free yeah yeah

I'm totally humanarian thing humanitarian thing that they want to be gay it's their choice it's between them and Allah and if they're if they're Muslim but the point is we should preach the message listen this is the thing Quran tells us this if you're a Muslim if you're non-muslim again if which religion for example Bible Bible speaks against that act of lot people of lot Jews also have the same taxt but if someone is still after delivering the message continuous between him and his God right we are not there so I don't understand so the question is

that right so in society people so you agree I'm just being clear so you agree people have the right to be gay now you're saying well however we should go around telling them what the Quran says about that is this like so we should go up to gay people and say do you know what Allah says in the Quran about is this what we should be doing do you do you think is that what a duty thatl they're Muslims if they are Muslims and but okay but look but let's let's take America you're talking about America as an example Muslims are tiny minority in America tiny insignificant almost minority so majority of America

is not Muslim like minity of you know that's minority people so when you're speaking generally about issues in a country you're going to speak about the Norms not the exceptions so the the norm is you're not talking about Muslims so America is not Muslim and minority a very small minority of the 300 million people of America are Muslim tiny people so it's insignificant it's like if you're trying to speak about Chinese issues in the UK like there are Chinese people that live in the UK but they you know they're not it's not the

UK though so so when you're speaking about lgbtq or people being gay or people being in America now you're speaking about the American people which for the absolute overwhelming utter astronomical majority are not Muslims so so what's the issue the issue is should you go around telling them about the the Quran and stuff is this the issue but they're not Muslims so why are you telling them in the minor in that Minority the beam of light is for example omaran that

Minority looks towards omaran as a source of heed or hi right he's their the well famous sh and when the do you feel like okay let's take because right now I don't understand this is obviously all about let's say Omar omaran I don't know why I'm speaking on behalf ofan you're not speaking you're not speak last time I spoke to him it was about I think I spoke to she Oman has probably been about what was it about five years ago five years yes exactly I saw you and yeah so I since then I don't think I've ever we've ever

spoken so I I'm not really I don't think he would want me speaking on behalf of him he would be like I don't want you to speak off him I'm saying the scholars should say that what he did was wrong public publicly on their channels not directly telling to you I'm just saying that let's okay let's roll with it let's unpack this here slightly so what this what we're saying is in America uh they are so you agree you agree that Americans they're absolutely in their right to be gay there there's no issue with this

from your side you're not disagree what I have to do with that their choice yeah so now what you're saying is you have lgbtq let's say I don't know what the like rallies or or you have rights or whatever so people like Sheik omaran uh are are are supporting those people or they're supporting that movement they're not condemning they're not being outspoken against these things this is the the issue can I ask first of all okay we'll come to some Islamic side in a

moment do you feel that what is the insecurity about this I'm just trying to understand that what what what disturbs you about this if something is Haram in Islam according to Quran how can you promote the agenda of that FNA into to your own Community by joining hands with the people who are promoting it K the people who did that act man with men it's totally prohibited in Quran I know you disagree no no wait no wait wait actually let's start on that why do you say I disagree what if I said because mu

I saw a few videos I'm not sure if you changed your perspective on what did you see say say what you saw because I don't know you referred to some uh uh sources of Muslim history were yeah Abid I think or just yeah so just I'm yes of course so did so when I gave references of some Muslim Scholars who said homosexuality was permissible did I say that I believe it to be permissible but no I didn't I don't remember that you said that you just no but you just said I know you

disagree so so I'm curious when you said that uh I know you disagree on this where did you hear me disagree in in that in that video which I saw of you where I said some people disagreed you're so okay so I so if I say to you some people have said it's some Muslims like Isis have said maybe maybe no no you're right you're right wrong perception of your uh no I said no I'll tell you what I said in the thing I said I gave a history of and a

diverse perspective I said there are they were in a minority this is who they were they said homosexuality was not Haram this is who they were and so on some people try to challenge this but it's there in the books and let's you know let's just be honest like a lot of the AMA of not a lot but there were several AMA from Islam who were bisexual I mean it's very clear in their books they make all this Iam's book is full of it all these other it's it's very clear their own they'll speak of sexual Tendencies they'll speak of when they fascin and I mention a history now I'm not saying I'm notur I'll take my words back I apologize maybe I got the wrong

perception of you right so then I did say that look some people if they do follow that let's say some people do follow it they say okay this person said it like at the end of the day I said look it's not our job to police people you could say look I disagree with you actually said look you could say I believe this is Haram that's your view they might say look I don't believe it's Haram okay it's their view you might say your view is wrong but this is all part of the discussion that has happened in Islamic history whether we like it or not we could say look the majority have said it's Haram and a minority of people

have either been very ambivalent on the matter and some have said it's not Haram but the difference is when people are going to say well see because that the point of that discussion when I made the video was saying that people were uh they were persecuting certain people who obviously especially Muslim uh homosexuals and I said well this thing is utterly unacceptable and if you look at the Islamic history there is a diverse history whe whether you like it or not you know you can pretend it doesn't exist there but then that's that's a person saying look I or I pretend let's be honest most of you know

you you name me a schol almost okay that's a bit of a stretch but most Scholars from every SE most or many right if you've studied Islamic literature many countless Scholars of Islam uh they they appreciated bisexuality so they they clearly had an appreciation for it they whether they practiced it or not it's difficult because we most of them won't talk about their private lives but they will write in their poetry praising how beautiful certain boys are how SE attractive they are how they want to kiss them how they want to do all these things all of them I don't know if you read Arabic and you

read these uh poems clearly they just read is full of it he'll talk about I witness this the IM he mentions the IM son in his time he mentions all these people in you you pick up any you pick up the books I I quoted the poem from I quoted Imam noi think people got upset they misunderstood what I was saying I was saying look Imam noi in his fatwa says everybody knows uh that boys he says many boys are far more beautiful and attractive to men than women and I was like I I I don't relate at all to what he's saying but this clearly he's

saying this he's acknowledging a bisexual tendency but it doesn't mean now he's saying he's gay like people are saying oh my God this is an insult I never said that so people obviously are going off their own way but look look okay let's let's kind of reel this back what are the insecurities that people have like what do you feel is uh what bothers you I get it you're saying that these people like omaran is a she now but what's the insecurity do you feel more people are becoming gay because of

omaran not only sh om suan the agenda which is being promoted within our society Muslim Society through different things not only through she Omar suan through media cartoons full of G things that okay I do I do agree with you I agree with you that I do feel there is a disproportional kind of push on uh on all of this stuff on the lgbtq thing there is a push that is disproportionate so you're right like I see things in cartoons I see things like much more than You' see in just say generally that you'd see now that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist

it does exist but I feel there's a quota in media to make up like to make sure every show for example has now uh a gay couple in it every show has a and it's and even Children's shows they have to make sure like the and there is a somewhat of a disproportionate push on trying well it doesn't tally with what the numbers but it's it seems to think it's like well this is obviously they've got an agenda and they may say well the agenda is to make it seem more normal so people don't abuse them uh and that that's a you know that that makes sense from one perspective the other

perspective is well it may be Mis representative of reality because it's not actually it does exist but it doesn't it's not to that extent that it's being and I must say one thing that I did speak on that I did find uh disturbing was in the UK there was certain schools that they were from they wanted from a very young age uh push a lot of this onto kids this kind of sexualization and I felt that this is like kids that are just five years old six years old and I felt that this is really disturbing that you are trying to push all of this sexualization onto kids

kids you know they they don't deserve that they just innocent like leave them alone and when they reach an age of some um kind of uh shall we say discernment and they have some kind of uh that they can they have at least reasonable I don't just mean common child understanding somewhat they at least 10 they're that kind of age sure you want to discuss certain things discuss it with them but I think to discuss this with like fiveyear olds six year olds to be uh and look I have no problem I've said this in the past I have no problem even to five-year olds saying that

people if they said like let's say in school they said look some people have two mommies some people have two daddies T because that is the case and there are some kids in the school that do have that so you could that saying that is I'm I'm I that's absolutely fine that's just describing reality but I have made a point there as well I have said that I find it then hypocritical that you're not allowed to say that some people have two wives uh that people find this you know because because polygamy is in the schools here or in the general broader

West Western culture it is really uh like demonized and I I find that strange that why because that's also reality isn't it some men especially within the Muslim Community some people do have two wives some people have three wives maybe okay not as much but you get some that do so in that sense that's also descriptive of reality so schools in young schools they should also be able to say that they should say that by the way some people uh you know they in their home they have one dad and they have two moms and you know the their dads have two wives and it's I see that as the hypocrisy of the

system that they condemn that and they say that oh but the other one we're just describing reality you know because if we don't teach the kids and how are they supposed to understand that other some people in the school might have which is true some kids in the school do have like two dads at home or two moms at home but some kids in the school have also their dads have got like two wives and three wives so so what especially in the Muslim areas and yeah this is a a hypocrisy clear hypocrisy so look I but I do say look I I've said this in the past I don't

think I don't think this is this is my this is where so here's where I'm at L Abu FAA I feel that it is true there is you know A lot's going on in society it's not just LGBT stuff there's a lot more wishy-washy stuff going on in society which does disturb people you know like now you're not even allowed to say what a man is you're not even allowed to say what a woman is you're not you know there's a whole program what is a woman and what is his name um what's it Matt Walsh I think he goes around interviewing people and they're not allowed to say what is a woman and I think that's it's like

disturbing for people because it upsets people that what because if you say oh you're a bigot you know you're not allowed to say uh oh and this is a woman because anybody could be I I right now I I would say I'm a woman you're a woman okay we're women now okay we say uh you know we it's just you say and it is my point my point is is that saying that Crow is white it doesn't turns it right yeah I agree with you I 100% these wishy-washy things are are disturbing I I agree with you that said I disagree you see people say well you see

all of this is kind of put into one lump because obviously you're saying well the LGBT you know you've got homosexuals and then you've got this as well so people are putting it as one I would say you see look when it comes to the homosexual issue homosexuality I would say as Imam Malik said when he was asked in the M that he said that what should we do we have like the people said we have communities that zarrian communities that marry their sisters and marry their mothers and marry their daughters and marry their sons they do incest should

we should we interfere because Muslims had some Authority Imam Malik said La he said he said that's their Dean and Allah has tolerated which is than this you know and I would say incest that's definitely far more disturbing to people people who are disturbed by homosexuality they they would be much more disturbed by incest right natural because obviously a person's own mother a person's own father person's own sister own brother own children this is

like even animals don't you see incest if you in the book third chimp z uh Jared Diamond he presents research on incest even animal species don't commit incest they would choose the he shows the study on mice that was separated since birth they don't choose the siblings still they choose the the cousin but they don't choose the sibling so if they' been separated since birth but they could somehow see something about the smell that no uh so the the point is that Imam Malik was saying look it's their way of life it's their way of life like sure you know we so

homosexuality look if it's their way of life it's their way of life T you know I don't think by people being gay makes us gay no I you know like if there were 10 100 gay people standing on the street we're not going to become gay just because there's gay people standing here you know it doesn't I think this is an unnecessary insecurity like some people have like oh my God oh my God we're all going to become gay like because some people are gay it doesn't work that way it doesn't it look if it's their life it's their life let them be but I do agree that you see things aren't just it's not just it's not this homosexuality I believe that there we are now in an era where there is this

kind of like this really wishy-washy age coming about where you're not allowed to say you're being silenced you're being silenced on just having a belief like even look I did say that you see now if you say there was a clip I spoke about that some person in some places you're not like they don't want you to even say women have babies you you you can't say that you have to say people with capacity to get pregnant one psychologist let me continue here one psychologist was asked on a national TV do you believe

transgender a woman he said this is very wrong question because yes I don't believe there are women and he gave the points they cannot be a child their DNA makeup is not what a woman has so yes they're not but I'm not telling I'm not saying in that that you are expecting me to say yeah but I want to say here look there's there there are studies there are studies right psychological study you're right that look the chromosomes don't change and these things don't change but there are studies that you have certain uh you'll have certain regions within the thalamus certain so

so the male brain so this is the problem today in this day and age so much is going on uh people are so the male brain and the female brain are not like mirror images of in fact it's not just about obviously male brain they're going to say well there's a size difference because of the the body size difference not about that but there's certain things with within it that are slightly different and one of them is the allocation uh Regional allocation to to to sex sexual differences so you have within the Thalamus certain regions and other parts that are different obviously of the Androgen receptors which are uh behaving different because of the testosterone as well that's impacting

the male brain but you have certain regions in a brain in the brain that uh that in a man there's there's more uh of these kind of cell these neurons that are active for uh that are sexually um that represent sexuality in a man in a in a male than in a female there's certain different ones and you see a difference so the now the interesting thing is that they did find in um in in certain people in let's say gender dis dysmorphia you did find that certain

people when they um they they did uh you know they operated and went they they were became trans transgender that the brain that they had actually correlated with the other gender that they changed to so they did find that in several cases now the question is it's not in obviously in all the cases I get that and there are there are several uh there's a lot of uh stuff on where people have regrets as well and that's obviously something important as well and these things I do believe these things are you know they they are very serious things that people need to

obviously think through and discuss with professionals like doctors which I'm sure they do the only thing look to me a person it is their life their Journey if they have this struggle that they feel look my within I feel that this is you know this is the like my whole life I felt I'm the opposite gender this is not this and they speak to Consultants I'm not a consultant right I'm not a you know somebody that's an expert psychologist sure no I'm I'm a psychologist as well but I'm not a a person that will speak to I I mean I have I have a degree in Psychology and I have a background in psychology as well but the but I'm not uh a medical

professional that deals with these in a um but let's say they speak to the professionals they get their consultant kind of professional opinion they realize and they take that decision that's up to them it's their life it's their choice and they will they will walk the path and with many people I do know it has been like it's this was something that changed their life for the for the better but there have been other cases where they've they felt that it became an absolute kind of catastrophe and they couldn't undo it and all these articles online I would say look these are people's choices it's not for me it's not for you it's

whatever it's their the medical professional that deal with them it's their Journey but the only thing I would say and I am this is I'm I'm worry about uh is with children you see I just feel that with children these things you see that's where for me it's it's like well I don't know what's going on you see I don't feel that an industry that is now becoming more corporatized and more kind of a lot of more a lot more money is being pumped into it I I feel that see children they have to because if a child

says this well okay you see because this is the child at a decision level to to be making these decisions I don't know this is but this seems very dangerous to me the child thing an adult a person that look they they've lived their life they say they've they've experienced gender dysmorphia they're the opposite side they've spoken to professional they make that choice that's their life okay um TK you know it's it's look at the end of the day if you're going through some condition you're going to speak to a psychi you're going to speak to some professional they're going to give you the advice you're going you might speak to two you might speak five you follow it it's your life the only thing is with

children I would I would say that that you know you shouldn't put children through this kind of stuff until they can't make a decision for themselves because that unless unless it's a different because there are some conditions which are different from childbirth it's very you know like you have certain where the doctors from childbirth would say that oh like they born with both genitalia and they both inter yes yes I know inter kind of so that's different I'm not talking about that that they do from a childhood kind of and stuff exactly exactly but yeah so this um thanks for

inside my my second thing second and last question I have to go on beauty yeah I think we we'll wrap this has gone on yeah go on well why not to uh preach and not directing it towards you I'm directing in general towards scholar why not to preach Tash Muslims if prach sorry like Shia Shia Muslims Shia because I my background is I was born and brought up as a Shia but then I went through researches on our own through

our own books and now I follow those things which I found correct according to my own research so you can say I'm the cast cast out okay okay so why not to from background why not to preach to Shia about the things which are totally uh wrong and uh have become Taboo in their religion in their a you see I okay look I right I this is the thing I feel that

um it's it this is it what what happens is it just becomes an argument a debate not sorry not just a debate but an argument it just becomes fighting sectarianism you see people people are what they are they're born on it they sure look people can change I I get this I'm not against uh you know being open to discussion but I feel that some of these are moot moot points like they're not going to get anywhere you're just going to have a view they're going to have a view and you're just going to clash bet it's better to let people walk

their own path some people you know through as they question things they may feel yeah this doesn't add up to me or I want to ask someone sure in that case if somebody comes to you then discuss with them but I feel you taking it to people just leads to kind of sectarian fighting and if they come to you then by all means you know you talk you sit down you you provide answers but I yeah I I'm not D I'm not personally for all the kind of Sunni Shia debating thing because I feel it does no good it just does harm and people but I have a question then why as a part of her Duty

as a part of responsibility according to Islam we are for the preaching right you should preach the religion in both ways ISL and calling towards Islam means Islam for the Muslims and calling towards Islam to the non-muslims right yeah like that right okay look right look this is I feel there's a lot of misunderstanding around this that people feel this they have a duty to preach I I I feel there's a misunderstanding around that I don't

feel we have a I feel let me rephrase it we have a duty to be an example there's a difference not a duty to preach we have a duty to be an example now you may say be an example by the word but more importantly live it like that you know this kind of teaching uh do should we um should we preach should we preach should we preach this kind of stuff it never said this anywhere preach

a preach preach it it just said look be examples of virtue yeah like sure Muslims you know they they they should be pillars of a community they should be people who help people people who do charity people who speak of God God's glory like wherever they go they you know always praise God they see that to that so if you want to call that preaching or you want to call that teaching by example uh however we want to call it it doesn't make a difference that I agree there's spot on sometimes we confuse that with preaching information about all the and I think

that's what that does is it makes us very judgy like we start you know you know like in in Arabic they like many of the would say you know if they they become you know it's like you know it's like you you you're condemned to hell you're condemned to hell you're faster you I'm better than you I pray five times day I do this I do that oh yeah speaking of Salah you know what I need to quickly do my Salah

bul Hashim fatim do oh you are a doctor you're an actual doctor you're psychiatrist and I take it and and a medical doctor you said psychologist yeah because you know in the UK a psychologist is not a medical professional he's a a psychologist but uh psychiatrist is a is a doctor on about you know mental illnesses and stuff so oh when you said that I didn't get but uh it's been a pleasure uh do stay in touch I'm just gonna quickly have to do do that so take care

right for letting me talk to you and no absolutely pleasure take caream alikum people speaking to AB Fatima wow what a discussion just going off on so many permutations a lot there being discussed on issues um homosexuality and stuff like this yeah you know you know look in a nutshell what I would say seriously I think people the best possible thing you could do is focus on yourself be an example of

light just just live don't yeah you know We There are confusing times but look people don't I think if a person focuses on themsel and then like the Quran says you want to save someone you want to focus on someone on yourself it says then your family then then you kind of they just be a light shining for people let people uh see you and think yeah why is that guy always so positive why is that person always so

you know happy why is this person so tranquil why is this person always at peace I want what they have Allah this is how people came to Islam this was the message of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam I think you know it's not an let's not worry about condemning let's not worry about let's let's let's worry about inviting let's worry about you know welcoming welcome everyone you know and I think there's there's great uh messages in

that there's a great message