Shaykh Dr. Shabir Ally | Juxtaposing the Quran, Jumbling Aisha's age & Jinn Possession | MindTrap#16

welcome back alum asylum become one more heaven warning light sir being beneath us at all of those people just check that we is lies that's what I'm talking about right so people by much public demand we've had to bring back our esteemed honorable guests let me bring up the profile picture first of all right here that everybody's been waiting for none other

than chef dr. Shabbir Ali who's with us tonight in the house let me just bring that in a limo silent chef as I was happening Salaam alaikum you I'm delighted to be back alright so welcome back last time we were kind of cut short it was a much-anticipated discussion a lot of people were really looking forward to it they still still are just right there we are also setting

the screen the people of rice so I'm just gonna check if I'm just gonna share this to the other page and I've already typed in chef to my page as well so right so people if there's any issues I know last time you guys did say that look there were certain sound issues hopefully everything is fine on this occasion I'm just gonna bring up my my facebook hint there alright just make sure that they can hear me for already probably you doing it you doing it just gonna press share on this and we've got

something we've got an incredible long awaited discussion full of insights for you guys tonight so just sharing this out so chef all right so I bring this up right we were in the in the middle of a discussion last week we spoken a bit about your journey how you'd kind of reconnected with the faith and you'd gone on to study at university you'd gone on pursued further studies and then even

your kind of exploration throughout that time and and then arriving at this understanding of saying the Quran really needs a I mean everybody says in theory it has a central place but in practice it needs to have a central place within the Muslim discourse sure would you feel that from where you began where you set off kind of reconnecting with the faith to where we are today things have changed things around you the general of the general kind of

sentiments of the Muslim mindset I'm not sure if I understand your question shift so you're asking about the position that I've arrived at thinking that the Quran has a primacy and you're wondering if that is different from what Muslims generally perceive the case to be sure I meant more so I mean that that could be by extension I meant more so from where you began do you feel people today have kind of moved along with you as well as as a as a massive moving as a whole or

people still is the general Muslim sentiment still maybe where it was to some extent it's moved however things I think yeah there is a great dichotomy within the the Muslim Ummah it's more than the economy there is a splintering of the Muslim Ummah and there is one strand that remains very traditional both in terms of the scholarship and the lay people so they follow a traditional bent they will not listen to anything new and it will carry on as they are to them the Quran and the Sunnah go

together the son sometimes Trump's the Quran if you want to find a ruling we may find it in the hadith and that can be more important than what we find in the Quran itself of course people wouldn't admit to say it in this way but yeah but that's what it happened what that's what it amounts to in essence but but but some will continue with that traditional bent now on the other hand there are a lot of lay persons a lot of Muslims many who will join us on internet forums who are thinking people they are examining there they have all

of the textbooks open before them they can check for fari and Muslim and so on they come across narratives that they find problematic and they realize that it has to be a rethinking about how how all of this is packaged together so there are many of the average Muslims out there who are waiting for somebody to confirm what they already know that the Quran is primary everything else is secondary and comes by way of explanation now there are some Muslim scholars as well who have begun to arrive at a similar understanding but many of them are caught up with in

traditional spheres of discourse and they find themselves in a way trapped in those spheres of discourse so they cannot voice a contrary opinion of course some scholars live in dangerous circumstances so if they've voiced an opinion which is different from what the traditional populace in those circumstances think to be non-negotiables then then they might suffer harm to themselves and maybe to their families and so on so if they tend to not speak as clearly

as we would expect about the issues which to us are so very clear sure you know on this primacy of the Quran now this is something which I you know weighing a hundred percent agreement what are some examples where you have felt that you have felt that this really this this dichotomy or this debate comes clearly to the forefront what some kind of I mean there's many but some that come to your mind as key kind of examples case studies yeah well in in fact most II saw the the examples

actually hover around things which are very important in in current discourse and and this is why it was impossible for me to leave these issues behind because as I speak to the public I lecture in University halls to Muslims and non-muslims I speak on television again to Muslims and non-muslims I realize I have to make sense to everyone and a lot of times the the Quran would make sense but the other narratives would not make so much sense and more to the point the the Quran would be pointing in a direction that is quite

reasonable whereas the other narratives would be pointing the direction that is contrary to where the Quran points so let me give some specifics here so let's let's say you know there is a stoning of of a girl in Nigeria who was found to be pregnant outside of wedlock and she's obviously accused of adultery and the traditional penalty is being applied to her of stoning and news of this would resound around the world probably it will be required Lee reported in the UK newspaper Daily Mail the independence and so on so - it'll be reported in

Canadian newspapers Toronto Star and and Sun and what-have-you and these reports are not going to be very favorable towards Islam and classical Islamic law and any of this people will be horrified like why are you stoning a young girl like you know what what crime is makes her deserving of this kind to them a sort of horrific and they might say even barbaric punishment so now we want to speak to the public we want to assist assuage their fears we want to let them know that Islam is the reasonable religion Muslims are decent people committed citizens to the countries in which they live and and so

on and if they have fears that Muslims are going to bring a law which is very different and apply it here in their faces then we want to explain to them what is the origin of this law where does it come from why is it like this so then we open up the Quran we ask okay well where in the Quran does it say that the adulterer should be stoned and the answer is as you know she know where the Quran penalty for adultery is is flogging yeah here - we're not saying that we should start flogging people now but where we're trying to make a distinction between what is mentioned in

such a news report and what the Quran actually says so the Quran doesn't say anything about stoning so where did Muslims get the stoning law from it is in the Hadees and so it so happens then that Muslims have been implementing the Hadees it to the detriment of the Quran so the hadith law came to supersede that of of the Quran and and more interesting than this year in my study of comparative religion what I see is that this is a biblical law the law about stoning you know and Muslims by practicing the this law are actually

closer to the Bible and they are to the to the Quran without knowing it to be the case and it's quite possible that Muslims in the first place observed the nature of the Jewish law and and what they thought should be the Jewish law came to be reported as though this was from our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him through some mistake in communication and in transmission of the Hadi from one generation to another especially by oral reports in the early period so in a nutshell then if we wanted to

explain to the public that Islam is something that is benign and even beneficial to them we need to start with the Quran and we need to show them that the Quran in fact does not have that law no sometimes when we speak like this some people say oh but why are you trying to please the Cofer and the answer to that is that we're not even if that was our intention to please the coffer in the end when we step back at this we have to say that ultimately what we want to do is to please Allah Azza WA JAL and to please allows our job we cannot misrepresent him enrich breatharian misrepresent his book and misrepresent his profit we have to tell

people what the Quran actually says and we have to explain why they had each says something different and the best explanation for that is that somebody foisted this on our Prophet Muhammad SAW Allah labor selling and this was not the law that he left behind the law that he left behind is in the Quranic Scripture that we have and we read and behold so dear another example all of this as well that is often brought up in contemporary kind of discussions on the media is the law of or the penalty of apostasy that's another example I mean you've also

spoken about this having share yes so shaker to be their laws apostasy in the Quran if we were to call it that is simply that people after the messages been made clear to them then they will face grievous punishment in the life Hereafter unless of course God decides to forgive them no penalty is mentioned in this life that you know that that should be implemented by by a governing body or a state and more specifically by the Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu verse Allah the Quran is very clear to the Prophet peace be upon him last Ally him a messiah you are not the supervisor over them

Ron says like or are fifteen there is no compulsion in religion and if we are to start killing people because they apostate then basically we are forcing people to stay within the religion and we are contradicting this verse which says logic raha 15 and it is so clear and certain baccarat the 256 worse so if they are open for everybody to see it and it is stated in an emphatic way like as you know Sheikh he know the Arabic teach me la ilaha 15 this has the same sort of grammatical formulation as la ilaha illaallah so justice la illaha

says there is no God with with emphasis in a similar way la illaha says there is no compulsion with with emphasis yeah absolutely sure one of the and one of the surprising things is that read this whole so-called rule if you want to call it the height of apostasy as people call it is really based on a singular narration from a coma and Bihari which is problematized in and of itself but but people will ask here like I mean

they said to me I'm sure they've said to you that look are you saying that you can to you let you cannot have 15 is so apparent yet to these other ulema in the past they couldn't see this you know why have they not all said this in death of us here why are you in the 21st century managing to you know please say it's so clear brightest day but it wasn't - all these all amount the parts yeah you know shake when you're in a smoke-filled room after a while you don't smell the smoke if somebody comes to the room and then they say oh you know this is awful look at it you know

the smoke in here is killing but but those who are already in the room they don't smell it so they become accustomed to that now it our our shoes in the past were great scholars and we depend on them for our learning maybe we can start from scratch we wouldn't know which way to turn but we depend on our great scholars of the past we learn from them the you know hadith we learn Arabic grammar we learned tough shear and and of course we depended on them to transmit the religion to us as a whole coagulation a conglomeration everything that that we know to be the religion but

that does not mean that they were gods no there weren't laws if you won that and they fallible they're human beings they're also subject to their time and place they're influenced by their environments and by the people who taught them and the social situation in which they live and so on so naturally they're if you know that they don't see what somebody from an independent perspective might see and now we're able to look at it from an independent perspective and and see the whole history of the way in which ideas flow from one generation to another housing solidified how certain ideas

came to be accepted and then become widespread and then classified as though this is now the unchangeable religion as it has always been and we can look back and see no it hasn't always been been like this we're not sure if if you allow me I'll give you an example that we thought oh sure let's say let's say we are part of a procession and and and this procession like fills the whole street so you know from side to side people are walking and we're part of that same procession and so while they're within that procession we see the persons who are just ahead of us and

the persons who are just behind us if we if we bother to look back but what we don't see far back and we don't see far ahead and be part of that procession now let's see we go on one of the balconies overlooking this procession so we can see the whole thing from start to finish we can see where it began we can see where it ends now and we can see the people who are at a particular juncture which in within that procession and yet now others of the past they were great scholars but they're part of that procession they they are that's part of that whole history and flow of ideas over time now we have the unique

advantage of being able to stand on the balcony how do we do that by getting the books from over the ages we can see what written at different junctures in Islamic history we can take them as milestones indicating how Islam was perceived at those various junctures in Islamic history and we can see an evolution of ideas over time so we can see the whole procession how it began how it began and how it proceeded and and the twists and turns and where it is ending up so if those scholars in the past being part of the procession did not have the vantage point that we have it's no fault of their own

there were great scholars and a level reward them their mistakes and all I mean we have mistakes too and we we we ask allah sunnatullah to forgive us we nobody is entirely like we're not gods either and and we're not infallible but we are responsible for the unique vantage point that Allah has given us Allah is going to question us you were in a position to know this and that why did you not oh not to to what you were in a position to know you see and some people here have asked as well about this about the stoning for example

and what exactly is it that are we saying it's fabricated or what that some of the questions I mean the way I have viewed this year was that as you highlighted that it was in the price previous scriptures there's a hadith in Sahih Muslim that the some Jewish people come to the Prophet and they ask to be judged by the book and it's from there that this is just condoned as a prior practice which was already in existence amongst Arabs as well it wasn't that it was unheard of but it was not in the Quran when the Quran came it would have

abrogated that in my understanding the other thing that I've highlighted is that with as the centuries passed they were certain Allah man who emerge around the seventh century in northwest Africa you've got some great orlimar date I'm like a possum and personally who actually in his time issued a ruling saying that the who dude they are like the hand chopping not the cutting of the hand or whatever it is that due to the change of the era and the ruling has also changed and he in his time and this is not this is way before modernity this is way before

being input influenced by Europe he wrote and he was the chef Elise Lam in his time and one of the you know especially of the Mauna Kea now he writes that wait they are they will be changed in line with financial penalties for his age but he says that the age must reflect the Haddad punishment and you've got something similar going on in the in the East with Salomon Rocker Muni does the Ottoman kind of Calif changes a lot of the Redoute punishments to other penalties now my understanding has been

that the Sharia will reflect the mandates to reflect the day and age whether that same punishments whether that's in rulings whether that's in you know just transactions or its understanding is that something that resonates DIF with yourself as well but let me put it in my own way to be to be most clear and I know you put it in a way that you know it's hard to disagree with but I want to put it in my own words of course yeah so the way I see this year is that you know we tend to

follow exactly the way things have been done and that's fine until we reach a snag and we realize some rethinking is necessary like we can't do it the same old way because obviously it's not bringing out the original spirit so so now we realize that there is a spirit of the law and there is the letter of the law the letter of the law was there for the purpose of maintaining a certain spirit but sometimes if you apply the letter of the law in a new situation you might actually thwart the spirit of the law so now we in order to capture that original spirit sometimes we need to

depart from the letter of the and this is an ancient and well-known principle and Muslim scholars have done this throughout the ages sometimes we look at a verse in the Quran the verse says plainly something and they say no while the Spirit is not that it couldn't be that yeah for you know for example the Quran says write your your loan agreement and the Muslim scholars look at that and say even though it's in the command form well because it's dealing with a practical matter it's not a matter as you know it's not the kind of thing that people were born in the Hellfire for then you know this must be taken to be a

recommendation even though it is given in the imperative form more to the point the Quran says after you have come out of your Iran FASTA do then hunt and and it's given in the imperative form and you know but but everybody agrees that the Quran is not making it mandatory for Muslims to go out and hunt soon as they come out from Iran yeah I mean you may be in Mecca and you're in a five-star hotel well me almost wanna Taylor take us back there because now with the lockdown you don't know when we'll have that beautiful opportunity to go there but

you see the point shape that even though as you know the Quran may be saying something in the imperative Muslim scholars realize that it's not the imperative that is intended there's a certain spirit behind this all saying and if the spirit that needs to be captured and applied so in a similar way when the Quran gives you specific laws and and people have referred to these as the whole dude law and and they think that these are non-negotiable and it is like you know inflexible it must be like this and applied the same way in all times in all places and that is not necessarily the case and we see that a

great companions of the Prophet is it is reported that American água as an example when he was Calif he realized that people were stealing not because they're bad people but due to a famine and so he suspended that the application of that law of cutting the hand because he recognized that the cutting of the hand that was a measure intended to be used against people who have gone out of their way through evil tendencies to to commit that crime and and these poor people in the face famine who were

stealing because they needed to eat did not deserve such a severe punishment so so we need to see the time the circumstance and apply the law accordingly sure sure with this comes the question are you not just giving your own primacy over the Quran and over everything over the Deen this is obviously something that I'm asked a lot as well I'm sure this is this kind of thrown you away as well you know people say are you not just giving preference to the intellect what do you

what would you yeah so the answer will come in parts one part of it that people seem to not be aware of and when they launch this kind of objection is that the aqil is all it is by itself a good guide to what is true and fair and just sometimes the Apple is tainted and people who are of great intelligence they go off the path that to me know that but if one is guided by the Quran and imbued with the Quran and with the inspiration that came to our Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu seven more

generally then the the that person's Arkell will be tamed and and will be a reasonable guy to was what is good and reasonable and fair and just and and will be a good guide on how to understand and apply the the Quran and the prophetic Sunda now the term uttered itself as you know she it's you know really related to the word appalled in Arabic which is the the thing that holds the camel and and stand it's the rope that holds the

and keeps it from going astray so this term Apple has been applied to the human intellect in the Arabic language as an indication of the ancient thought about this that the the aqil actually keeps the person from going astray and in Iran we do not find this meaning being opposed in fact on the other hand we find that the Quran is praising the Apple and is asking you after that afternoon do you not reflect do you not use your intellect and the the Quran is asking about the people who did not believe in allah subhanho wa taala

awfully Mia Cyril fill our G but a kun Allah whom Columbia afternoon avea have they not gone have they not travelled in the earth so that they would have hearts with which they can they can think they can intellectualize so of course we're not talking about the physical heart because that's not the instrument or or organ of of intellectualization but but the quran is using language through the

journey of the institutionalization of the d but don't you feel the apple has become demonized over time like people muslims i feel are the only I think maybe amongst the only few subset communities ever that use the word upper pejoratively like oh my god you're using your akka so this brings me back to the point I was making about standing on the balcony because from the balcony we can see that over our history there has been a great struggle between people who call themselves a little Hadees and and they

saw themselves as being opposed to Allah and the people of opinion and the people of opinion are basically the people who are using their Apple but they were dubbed like this at love rocky now the the it's it's the people who were so much in favor of hadith but not only in favor of hadith but those who used hadith and championed it as the antithesis to Akal they are the ones who became victorious in our history and it is from them that we have basically inherited the traditional religion so in

a way that's a great thing because we can see the tendency of the human offal to be different from one person to another yours is different from mine and ours are different from the viewers and so on so everybody's got their own opinion on things and if everybody had his own way throughout Islamic history you can even imagine that Islam would have splintered into so many hundreds of different strands that we would be lost between all of them under for a long time in Islamic history Muslims survived very well and the Islamic faith and community survived by by taking that

narrow path in the dichotomy instead of going the way of Akko they saw that they needed to stick very closely to the traditions and so with that they have preserved for us two traditions but now we have come to a new juncture in the road where things are happening like never before we are faced with many new situations that require very new and original thinking and and with that we have to absolutely apply our Apple but right now again we should be clear that it is not apple in Contra distinction to the tradition it is our together

together with the with the tradition that is the knuckle and Apple going together knuckle the base I mean in the street except 3d apple exactly exactly so I the way I would like to put it shake is that the vehicle interprets the knuckle and the knuckle guides the Apple yeah so the to work hand in hand the tradition it guides the intellect and the intellect interprets the tradition and and the to move forward in in a symbiotic relationship that's beautifully said often said to people when they've asked me this question that this question is

in itself placed wrong like it's it's wrongly placed because it puts you no matter how you answer if you're gonna answer it especially in this kind of a way you're already on the backfoot it's like a kind of analogy if you like is to say something when some people have said oh well imam abu hanifa has said this as an example or imam malik I said these oh but the prophet has said this who do you take preference to now that is a you know that is a false statement because

in essence what you ought to be saying is imam malik according to this teaching of the Prophet is saying this and such and such according or Imam hadees which who has documented the teaching of the Prophet says this which Sunnah do you go with like you put like against like to kind of miss out one of those is it's so catastrophic in this particular context now similarly when we say oh do you give our color preference over divine guidance that's wrongly that's a false statement

what it ought to be is do you give you understanding of the Quran preference over for example somebody else's understanding of the Quran I mean that's just a point I would you know I I felt it's quite important to highlight chef speaking about you mentioned about history you mentioned about perspective and and seeing things from a certain angle and how this whole historical tradition is important now and you tied it in with Sierra now I know on that note you've also discussed

things like the prophets marriage to eyeshadow the aloha and this has been in something that I I personally feel that more and more among need to really openly rise to this challenge and address like you have so a bit of your findings on this ship what was your kind of conclusion well I have to confess check that I have not studied the matter in great detail as I did not do an original study of the matter in great detail but I've relied on the works of some others

who have done such detailed study one is a sister in the UK rakia Waris Maqsood her brief treatise on this has been published by the Islamic propagation centre international in Birmingham and and that's an excellent summation of the evidence that goes to show that I shared a llama and must have been much older than the ages which are mentioned in in the hadith that is most notorious about this and his sister recently a Turkish sister has written a book on the life of eyeshadow delawanna

the mother of the believers more more generally and she has devoted a large section to dealing with similar details and there is a ship in in Pakistan Moi's am jed who has written extensively about this on the understanding Islam calm website moreover I happen to have the good fortune to be together with sheikh dr.

Jim Alvaro we in Australia where we were both speaking at a conference and his lecture his entire lecture for one hour was about the subject and he went into great detail analyzing the hadith that is so quite famous about this and giving an alternative view reaching the same conclusion that I shared at Ghulam on would have been in her teenage years when she got married to the Prophet peace be upon him rather than the six and nine that are mentioned in in the traditional and narrative about this so how do they come to this information I'm sure you know this already would you be

the opportunity to say it and so so let me say what what I recall of this what they're saying is that with we the hadith beside that one hadith it for the moment and we look at other pieces of evidence and and we see that things add up a little differently for example it is mentioned that Asma the older sister of I shared Yvonne had lived to a hundred years old and she died in the year 73 and that she was 10 years older than I shared Ghulam on her so if she died in the year 73 of the Hegira it means that at the Hegira

she was 27 if she was a hundred years old in the year 73 so if she was 27 at that time it means that I shed idea on how a seventh teen ten years younger and in why she was 17 at that time and then she moved in with the Prophet SAW Allah they said them a year later it would mean that she was 18 at the time when she moved in to live with the prophet sallallaahu leave a sudden so that's a far cry from nine years old it's the you know double the age and it would seem from pieces of evidence like this that the the age that is reported by shadilal

on high in that popular hadith has been misstated and this is not surprising that this happened we can cite other evidence in hadith where a number has been stated incorrectly and we know this because one hadith says one number and the other had he says a different number and we know that the narrators somehow mixed up the numbers of things much more to the point about age in in those days people did not have birth certificates and did not have a calendar on the wall to remind them of the passage of time like this so people had rough ideas about the passage of time and people did not remember the years in which they

were born because usually we know when a person dies but and we can remember the year with greater approximation than to think about like when was this person more if people did not even know how old they were sometimes and you know shake even are in our present age in some remote areas happy do not register their births and when they go to get sport that is when they have to think about when exactly they were born and then they don't know exactly which year and and they take an approximate year sometimes people tell me that you know they're like in hindsight they realize

that there are so many years old but that's not what is stated in their passport and moreover when it comes to the day within the year in which they were born and they have to give an approximation like either you were born in the first half of the year and so your passport shows it as January 1st or you automatically get July 1st so people people did not remember exactly and it may have been the case that people said that Aisha was young and she was young regula-1 huh and and and due to her youthfulness we benefited from her

association with the prophet sallallaahu Selim by learning so many details of his private life through her so she was young but when people related to each other she was young and another person says well wait a minute young how young and then the other person says well let me tell you how young and then of course they start exaggerating the age downwards to mean age younger and younger and we can see that by contrast the age of Khadija rajala Han had the first wife of our beloved prophet salaallah sallam our mother Khadijah Oman momineen her age seems to have been

overstated because we know that she was the father and she was the mother of several children of the prophets Allah leaves and limbs in daughters Fatima and Akiyama consumed and and so yeah so and then at least two boys we know their names to be tall here and and cause him after boom the problem is referred to as double caused him so for her to have given birth to that many children with the prophets allah allah wa sallam it

means that she was married at an age that would be conducive to that the narratives therefore we'd say that she was marry to the prophet sallallaahu lament she was 40 it now can be received with some skepticism and Laurence Conrad and Angelus has actually actually studied this in great detail and he has shown as though the details of how he is showing it now escapes me and he has shown that she would have been something more likely to have been 28 years old at the image that is actually the rewire of it Napa's is actually that she was 28 okay

so you can see how it's possible that because she was older than the prophet saww time he was 25 she was 28 you know it got bandied about that she was old and then how old let me tell you how old she is and then it gets exaggerated upwards her age ironically was exaggerated upwards mirrors on the other hand by contrast the age of eyeshadow delawanna was exaggerated downwards this seems to be a better of all explanation for why that ate the LA one had is reported as being so I feel one of the reasons that may have contributed like

you're saying just just following on that kind of stream of thought is that there were certain people who you know with the whole Haditha lift kind of thing that carried on even though in the time the prophet Elijah Salem obviously stopped with the verse of the Quran but later on in the decades to come people still at times some people who don't like eyeshadow the along on how they spread rumors about that she used to you know that she had relationships with other men and so on and as some said that oh look at the hadith or if and they kind of like popularized this again in saying that how did she know soft one

or whether it was from before now even though obviously she knew from before hijab was kind of mandated but that's not the point so the person who transmits that she was so young when she married the Prophet is her own nephew oh wow and I feel that may have been part of the reason in in a kind of her per belief form of really exaggerating her purity chasing us and virginity in trying to say what are you talking about do you know how young she was even when

you know she was just 9 so for example taking it right down to such an age where we'll obviously she couldn't have known other men she was just so young but you know one of the things that really did it for for me as an individual what on this matter of the age of Aisha or the Aloha on her was learning the the backdrop to when the Prophet gets married following our medicine so the year of sorrow and he's lost Khadijah of the one hand he's lost a battalion and it's the worst most

tragic year for the Prophet and he's got young children at home and he's got you know he works for a living he's got the message and the message doesn't even seem to be going it doesn't seem to be flowing there's the thought if incident he's getting attacked beaten up he's lost his kind of solidarity with courage or support or at least his indemnity with or age because of Abu Talib no longer being there and then he's approached it when he's sitting quite it was very saddened and he's approached by hala who asks him that because I mean he's he's down

she asked him that why don't you get married and and he says well who do you have in mind and she recommends two people she recommends soldier and she recommends Aisha now the interesting thing is that at that time a wife having a wife could have helped the Prophet in several aspect it could have helped him from a personal perspective in he's his feeling down a companionship helping him mentally it could have it could have helped him by taking care of domestic issues taking care of the children at home it could have helped him in the sense of the Dawa in in preaching and

going forth and serving like a being a backbone to the Prophet the way khadijah was really long on huh now it could have helped him with with intimacy and just being having somebody to be intimate with and being close with now if the proposition that I shot at this time was a six year old child who is absurd because I mean she could not fulfill a child at the age of six I mean it's she couldn't fulfill any of those categories she in fact if anything she would just be another burden it's

like the Prophet has young children at home now he's just brought another child and poor child at home who's gonna take care of the children while he's trying to earn a living and trying to do all of these things this hadith really you know brought the message home for me that wait a minute this doesn't where as it makes sense having a partner somebody who could actually help you in these categories of life yeah I just wanted to kind of Shayla [ __ ] yeah there's a reasonable observation ship that went man the problem was getting married it does not make sense that he would be

marrying a girl who would have been younger than his his daughters at the time and of course his daughters were young enough to need a motherly care and Souda would have fulfilled that by virtue of her age to marry Ayesha who would have been so young as described in the hadith would not seem to serve any reasonable purpose at that time yeah and the fact that when the Prophet actually at the time when he mentions a trouble worker of the law on the books of ceará highlight that I shall a worker doesn't actually accept straight away because he

because she's already engaged and he says that she's really engaged so we don't know where we stand with that and then the Prophet Murray soda and it's only when the engagement is broken off because he says that she's been engaged for a few years and what's interesting is a deep how Tim I believe she was engaged to the parents of potential enrolls the mother says in the narration that when a buckler goes to check that weight we stand with this engagement so she says that no I'm not interested she says that

these people are from this the Saba are from the Saba team from these that's you know they stir cold in early Muslims and she says aksha and to spit ah who she says I'm not marrying my son to him I fear that she will convert him now this alone gives so many like it rates so many question marks that first of all if she was engaged for several years what was she engaged at the age of two or three and the other thing is if she's a six year old child why is Andy Manhattan's family so bothered about her

converting him to to a new phase yes I mean I thought some of these things are incredibly noteworthy sure on this thing people might say too I mean they do say they say to me I'm sure they've said this two years well in fact don't don't are you just oh this is just a cry to to appease the the kind of western claims and so on in you know you're just trying to suck up to a certain crowd by saying this now I know that you know how Charlie I know that's not the case

because to me this is the honor of the prophet sallallaahu listen but I mean but like you to kind of respond to that in yes that that would have been my my youthful claim as well I would have thought that you know if people are denying things like this then it must be that there something is wrong with their Iman did they don't quite believe in our Prophet SAW said I'm and what has been reported about him and we can even cite versus against them for our of because I mean Anahata yaki move she matches Arab I know from Allah as you do fiance

Maharaja female for dietary so living with us Lima so we all know the verse know by your Lord they do not believe until they make you a judge in all their affairs and then they find no difficulty in accepting what you have decided but they submit completely or you know it is mechanimal in the move meaning well immunity is a puddle of water Zulu Amran ie who know the whom will fear are to fear him so it's not possible for a believer but a man or woman after God and His Prophet have made a declaration that they should

have a a choice regarding their their affairs and so on so many verses of the Quran tell us to submit to the process and follow him and use him as our model an example and so on so that's the kind of thing that I would have thrown at other people and I thought simplistically at one time that this was normal there does the prophets example like he married a young girl so a girl could be married off at that at that age and it's it's only later on in life that I came to realize that that no a girl that

young is not really suitable for marriage and and this is not a non-muslim sort of claim I don't have to try to convince a non-muslim about this I have to convince myself and fellow Muslims and and I see that you know although in some Muslim societies to this day some girls may get married young but but how young probably 12 maybe in some parts of Syria maybe in the Yemen but but 9 seems to be like quite quite young and so and 9 of course is the crucial age we're dealing with because even if we say

there was a betrothal at 6 then the consummation is at 9 that is the crucial data we need to think about the crucial age and I don't see Muslims in general trying to marry off their girls at 9 years old so it's seen is that the Muslim collective judgment about this the collective understanding among Muslims is that a girl that young is young to be married we need to make some adjustments of course because in our present times one of the things that that make us think of a higher age for marriage for both boys and girls is that you know the the boys and girls have colleges and universities to Machamp

they have an education to pursue like never before whereas in ancient societies the you know the boys became warriors very young to defend their tribes against marauding invaders and-and-and the girls got married young to bear children for their tribe so that the tribe became strong in numbers so so there has to be some adjustment that way we can understand why in ancient societies girls and boys both got married young and if we look back in our own family histories we might find that a great-grandmother got married very young maybe maybe she was 16 maybe even 12 at the time and she got

married so it was not so unusual in the past but yet in this circumstance it seems from from all of the evidence that we have called together that it is better to say that I share a villa Juan was older than that report states it to be so those those who are thinking that we can't divert from that report they have a misunderstanding about how had each have been narrated and collected and then graded and sifted and and they have the misunderstanding which unfortunately is being perpetuated by some of the scholars who should know better the misunderstanding is that once

a hadith is found either in Bukhari or Muslim then this is on the face of it authentic and and the common Muslim does not dare to question this whereas every scholar of Islam worth the name knows that there may be a hadith in bihari saying that the Prophet SAW Allah is and then prayed in a particular way and other scholars would look at that and say well no I have a more authentic narration than that which is contrary to that and we're going to follow that one so it but it's not the case because it is stated in Bukhari this means that's the final judgement on on any matter so

and scholars differ with Bihari all of the time and yet they perpetuate the the the misunderstanding to the populace that once it's in Bihari it's like you can't question it we all know that that collective scholars differ from that all of the time imam at-tirmidhi as you know would report to hadith and he would say that this is authentic but the animal is contrary to it meaning that the Muslims in general are acting contrary to to this hadith and and how does that happen in the earliest generations it happens because the Muslims are aware of something that is more authentic than

what is related in that narrative absolutely and and on that note just to cut to kind of mention there people like Imam Malik had mentioned that it was not permissible generally to to marry girls he'd mentioned unless they were nubile and you'd mentioned that in his photo and regarding just for the viewers regarding the hadith and the essay needs some people had asked all the hadith week I do personally believe that all the hadith regarding this are weak and I'm a separate episode I will be with another guest we'll go through the

entire every single summit of hadith to do with the age of Aisha showing the weakness in that particular episode but he or she I want you to say that just hi following on from what you said this thing about look people have this understanding that this is in Bihari regard even what we spoke about earlier on the hadith of apostasy laws is in Buhari is I mean are you not challenging this is the the allegation you are challenging the the masterpiece the

golden standard of now what is being claimed to be Sunni Islam because it's in variety I mean what are your thoughts on this claim well you know the the the masses of Muslims have been given just a simple way of looking this the matter is more complex than this one Buhari indeed is the masterpiece like among the the great collections of sunni hadith works there are six which are known as a heceta and this has been termed by some as a misnomer but nonetheless this is a popular way of designating the six books

if no Masha among them you know the questions have been raised about even imagined and many of the narratives within it and that leaves the other five Bihari Muslim term easy abu dawood messiah and among those five Bukhari and Muslim rank paramount and they are referred to as collections of sahih hadith but what is meant by Asahi Hadees it means that the collectors Bukhari and Muslim went through these narratives in in detail checking and verifying the chain of narrators and so they would only accept hadith from narrators who

were known and who were known to be in contact with each other or in the case of Muslims of hadith narrators who could have theoretically at least like the practical circumstances was such that they could have met so to be clear for imam abu ha albahari it was necessary to know that if he is saying that a told me and then it there must have been an established relationship between a and B so we know that that when b is saying he got it from a he didn't make it up he got you know he Able's a real person and they were in contact with each other whereas

for imam muslim it was sufficient that they were in the same town or in the same era so he had a slightly less strict rule about who to accept and and the narratives to accept but that says little about the actual content of the hadith itself and we know that even good people can mistake what they what they narrate and in fact we know that they have over time because we can compare the narrations of good people over time and we can see that the good person also makes mistakes in what they what didn't aerate so the the fact that

you have a chain of narrators of all good people is not a guarantee that the that the thing that finally comes out through that chain of narration narration is actually the original and genuine thing that was originally being narrated from the first narrator and down to the down to the end changes have occurred and sometimes occur and and this is often discovered by Muslim scholars so sometimes you ask me previously about a certain hadith like is this fabricated and the answer is is that hadith it doesn't have to be

fabricated like whole as it is it there could be accretions along the way what the muslim scholar is referred to as a mod raj and insertion sometimes someone tries to explain this hadith because something is not very clear so he inserts some words in order to explain the hadith and then but the explanation is put in such a way that the way it is passed down it comes down to us as if it's all one whole piece and and we don't realize that there's an explanation that was inserted by somebody there only by comparing two narratives we can see that one contains the explanation and and the other one

doesn't and it looks like it's not that the explanation dropped out of the of the other one it is somebody has actually inserted an explanation here and so over time the hadith could have been transformed from one person to another even though they are related by good persons the this most severe test of a hadith - and the highest ranking hadith having passed these tests are the hadith which are classified as motiroti er and most Muslims don't seem to know this all they're being told is that take the hadees which are none bihari know the hadees which are in bihari and

muslim and the other books there are what is referred to as you know share as a hadith a hat they are singles narrator hadith it could be tour three narrators as well but it doesn't reach that stage where it can be hwacha and what a watcher hadith on the other hand is such a hadith that has been narrated by so many different chains of narrators and that it is hard to see how they could have all colluded and to produce this singular narrative yes the narrative is genuine and original unfortunately only a few hadith

are of the motivator category and among the few most of them are motivator not in words but in deeds and and we follow those like for example the fact that we have our door prayer is for our cats and a smuggler prayer as three records this has come down to us through motiroti narrations so we know we have no doubt that this is not this is the number this is the case door for at maverick three records but very few as I said hadith sir of the motiroti category and among them are very few armata watcher in the exact words what has happened in fact is that muslims

have narrated the hadith by way of meaning and they put the thought in their own words and we know how that can change things and then it goes down from one generation to another until eventually the science starts to strengthen and this crews start to be tightened and the scholars now want to make sure that there from here onwards they are narrating in the exact words and they would exclude those people who are making mistakes in narrating in the exact words but by the time to close the gates a lot of water has already flown

under under the bridge I'm just going to say that you know how you describe more to water is what I refer to as the as the living tradition of Islam the kind of tradition that has been passed down of how many solos are they and things like this that Muslims by and large tend to know just like through on mass transmission the actual motor worked at hadith as the hadith indicated to be motivated I all in line with those colors like it nyebern and the others who said there's

no such thing as motivated hadith but I mean that's fair enough I mean I understand that many scholars do go the other way and and with body I have generally I'm not sure maybe some people some viewers I've come across I have actually done a kind of detail study and I've done a video called Wadi Gate where I questioned the authenticity of bihari through its transmission that we have today so I say that we can't you see and I'm not doing it to dismiss Bahari I'm not saying let's throw honey away

but what I'm saying is because we can't prove bihari today to be the exact copy of imam bukhari through the manuscripts that have been found over the centuries not just today so the earliest manuscripts that go back go back to a few centuries after imam bukhari but also because he'll mihari rests on the shoulders of simply one man who transmits it from body in his name is Muhammad Mustafa robbery and Ferrari isn't actually vouched for by any Mahad death in his entire lifetime

so nobody that actually knew him despite him living in the era of the greatest you know the largest wave of maha thene yet none of them ever vouch for him so and so he's only watchful at the least one hundred years after he's he's gone so Oh a few hundred years after him people were from so based on this I said that we should treat Bihari just like any other book of hadith and we look at the sudden we look at the hadith if it doesn't as the magazine of said if it doesn't clash with reason it doesn't go against the Quran and it doesn't approach an Islamic principle that laughs I love you Holly film at all

Willam you know Adele soon and well mu by you know that these three things but they actually mentioned let me buy in a Malayali film on all um naka de lo soon then we will accept it so now I'm just saying that that's but I do it except that other people obviously don't take such a radical stance when it comes to Bihari I've been a bit outspoken and critical on the Bihari thing I'm not sure if you've ever taken such a stance yourself share for or not really evil well I'm not studied as you

are chef and the details of the hadith transmission and so on and especially as you mentioned about the manuscript of ali muhammad wa hari and how the rags actually come down to us but in my own approach to hadith which i I prefer to research was a balanced approach to hadith not accepting them all as they are and at the same time not throwing them out wholesale but taking them one by one and and evaluating them based on these principles which you have so eloquently delineated in mentioning the Arabic terms they should not contradict one of the major principles of our religion because those principles are

known not from one narration they are known from many narrations and from the Quran itself they should not negate what what is known from empirical observations they should not go against reason more generally and and and so on so it did this kind of rational evaluation of the content of the Hadees this is what some of the earliest Muslims did but which we fail to do later on because there was this dichotomy between followers of the tradition and followers of reason and and those who championed the tradition saw reason as as something to be antithetical to the tradition so they

didn't want to use reason in evaluating the traditions and as a result if something was really unreasonable to even to them they would try to find some fault in the in the chain of narrators and discounted on that basis Jonathan Brown has actually shown this to be the case in one of his articles regarding this but but by and large they did not want to use reason as you said this is the only religious community so disparage yeah and so they tended to accept things just because these were

narrated by a reliable chain of narrators but when we look at those contents today we can see that if this was presented to and in fact we do see that there are narratives which came to be accepted later on by this great hadith scholars narratives that were rejected by the mother of the believers I share a jalaja on him case in point that there is a hadith that says that three things break the prayer the dog the woman and the donkey so when I should add yellow and have heard male companions of the prophet sallallaahu Selim relating this she said you guys are equating us with dogs and donkeys so you can yes meet she's not

accepting this as a narrative from the Prophet Allah and she says it hostile a bit somehow like what a damn thing to say like how do you kind of equate us women to donkeys and dogs even though they weren't equated but they were adding them in it's like these in the same grade I'm the same price yeah say these things so if you you know putting us in the same yeah yeah putting us in the same breath like in a way yeah and it is noted that if norm are who was one of the prized companions of the prophet Isaiah cinnamon one of the most reliable sources of hadith of the Prophet

sallallahu sallam he related that the dead are being punished due to the weeping of their living relatives and when I shared a deal on heard that she said no above the rock man which is her way of referring to him either aired or he forgot that what the Prophet SAW Silla must have said was that you know that the people are are weeping while the dead is being punished it's not that he's being punished as a result of the family weeping and then as a substantiation for the position that she

was expounding and she said husband ah kita allah the book about is sufficient for us and then she recited the verse that says as they realize it was wrong so the unsold does not get punished or does not bear the burden of another soul so that idea that debt is being punished because of the weeping of the living relatives and and she thought that and she declared quite clearly that if nama must have made a mistake or he forgot another sim belong to that ship that she I mean she's amended made many amendments and

certain scholars have even written a whole book at this particular book I've got called I think it's called a Harper will each other but it's it's about the Easter cut of I share of the eleven half on the companions but an interesting one just to add to that is the hadith that is transmitted I believe it's by Abu Huraira or the Allah and that you have a bad omen in three and it mentions that I shouldn't feel Allah that there is like a kind of we take for people who you know that you kind of take superstition but this bad luck so to speak in these

three things that Fidel and for us that the house the horse and a woman that some women are unlucky now she I shall deal of on her amends that and she kind of condemns that transmission and says that it was actually the Prophet saying to someone that the people of jahiliya used to say she says that he heard somebody saying something and and he followed by commenting oh the people of jahiliyyah used to say that a shortened

faith Allah that bad luck is in three things it's in a house a horse and a woman not that the Prophet himself said he he was quoting in saying oh do you know the people of JEA used to say and this is so important because what it gives so much context to how hadith or sometimes miss relay miss conveyed yeah yes yes we have narratives which that a person came in in the middle of the prophets discourse the lolly was at them and he only related the part that he heard and of course the part that he

heard taken as a part away from the whole it happens to be a misunderstanding so so in the end oh I think you know the question was people are gonna think that if we if we take the the positions that we have taken here that we are somehow like against bihari or we are disbelieving in something that is essential to the face or something like this and the answer to that is no we are actually first of all giving great credit to the great scholars among Hardware I'm Allah he did the great work

of sifting hadith and in fact if we compare the Hadees of Bihari with those of heaven Imagi we will see the the insertions that are therein even imagine and and we can see that the Bihari hadith is shorter usually a more precise whereas we can see that the narrative has become more extensive by the time you get to even imagine and that shows that the most authentic version of the narrative is usually a shorter version and that makes sense because people tended to add things rather than to take away from the original narrative they tended to add explanations we see the explanations in

the later narratives so Lehmann Bukhari Imola gave us a masterpiece that brings in to check the the tendency of effete narrators to add things and expand upon it and make it more like make a mountain out of a molehill but that does not mean and that an imam bukhari rahim allah was an angel or that he is God himself and so that his work has to be treated the same way as the Quran no that would be a travesty I don't think he Mamba Hari himself would agree with that assessment of his work in fact it is narrated in the introduction to Sahil Bihari in the

English translation that when an imam Buhari included a hadith in his work he would pray 2 rakaats of Prayer now that they had explained why is 2 rakaats of prayer but obviously it's Imam bahar is way of saying to Allah Arab I did what I could and now I'm leading the rest to you forgive me if there is any mistake here so he recognized him is himself to be a human being and his work to be the the work of a human being we should recognize it no absolutely and I just to clarify that and for any interested I do

have a very lengthy video called behayelit on YouTube on my channel and in fact it's in two parts but I do begin that by highlighting that it's EC Bihari is 3 this is this three phenomena that that there are in my perspective one is the man himself Imam Bihari one is the book and then three the myth that has been created Hari as the gold standard this untouchable kind of book this whole myth and it's the myth that I'm critiquing I do highlight that imam mahdi himself I

feel was somebody you know was a great man although he suffered extensively at the end of his life but I do mention that this is not you know great tribute to him I mean you know credit to him as an individual pursuing his his his gold this is not about him this is about what becomes of this book much later but yeah chef on this note speaking of what people do and when people have already said made up their mind and they set things it doesn't matter sometimes what you show them even if it's not so clear sometimes in tradition like to kind of

open the Pandora's box on things like exorcisms demonic possessions I know you've spoken on this in the past I've spoken on it as well I mean I've not really believed in these in saying that the Quran and some that does not show these to be true even though it is the wide while widely held as a belief by Muslims yet if anything the Koran seems to show the the opposite to be true what are

your thoughts and words of this ship hmm CII was plunged into into this whole discussion because there was a young man who used to come to our Dawa center normally young man and then eventually one day I came to the Dawa Center and I found that he's there lying on the floor and some brothers are reading the Quran over him so I try to you know leave the matter as it is settle into the office and then eventually they related to me what was

happening in in their way of putting it this young man was possessed by by a jinn and it happened to be a female jinn and how do they know because she speaks in a female voice and how did he get it and you know he when he was a kid he urinated against a tree and that tree was obviously possessed by this female jinn and and the jinn who was affronted by his action against the tree then decided to possess him so they were reading Quran to exorcise this gym and they were happy with their results of what they were doing but this young man

continued to exhibit problems until one day his older brothers called me frantically asking for my help because this jinn possessed lad was throwing things around in the house and and becoming a real threat to them so you know when I went there I tried to talk to him and and he's calling for water so this apparently happened to be like a routine that the brothers already were familiar with he would call for the water and they will bring the water and try to give it to him in his right hand

because the Muslim would drink with his right hand but this jinn possessed lad what he he transferred the water to his left hand and and and and give is a satanic type of laugh and then drink the water with his left hand so that the brothers were scared out of their wit's so here is a young man asking for water again and they dutifully go and bring the water and they place it in his right hand he he he immediately Francis left and I kick it up from the left hand and

then this young man just simply fell back on on the sofa as if like falling faint well well the brothers relate to me that this would have been an occasion for great you know ocean because he was in his right hand and so on and he would be violent towards them but he wasn't violent towards me he just simply fell back on on the couch and I I interpreted this different behavior to mean that he respects me as his Imam and and and he was fine with being violent towards

others but not towards me so I felt all of this as a normal type of behavior I didn't see this as any kind of gin possession or anything all right so things were we're still not getting under control so we took him to a local hospital and they're in the hospital when we went when we were like in the presence of the doctors and nurses and so on all of the conversation would be quite normal and behavior is quite normal when the doctors and so on leave and and were alone with him just me his brothers and and him then they were all be all this kind of acting up

and and I don't mean acting up in in it like in a deliberate pretence 'iv way but but but suddenly suddenly the lad is transformed into this Djinn possessed individual again you know so the way I interpreted all of this is that when he is with people who believe that this is a phenomenon he is exhibiting the symptoms of that phenomenon and and when he is with people whom he knows like the doctors and nurses who are not going to take this with a grain of salt he he behaves normally so I'm not saying that he's deliberately pretending and trying to deceive anyone

but I think that somehow in his psychology he's deliberately not deliberately but he is playing up to they like he's feeding off the vibes around here brother if that this happens it is the gin and so on and so he's acting in this way so I started reading the books which explained this phenomenon and I saw that the books which are written by me some scholars to prove that this is an Islamic belief really lacked the proof that I would have expected so for example they want to prove it from the Quran so they take a verse of the Quran that says a Lavinia who know Reba lie Huna in life am i Akuma lady yet a hobbit of shaitana

minimus so they say see this is Shaitaan touching the person with the mass this touch and and you know they're knocked to the ground this is titanic possession but the in the context the verse is obviously talking about somebody who will rise on the day of judgment not not the kind of behavior that we find with a jinn suppose the jinn possessed person on this land so it doesn't really prove the point moreover if the Quran is taken as a whole it shows that Shaitaan does not have a command like this he is as the Quran describes him Olivia was missile feasts to do Rinna's he whispers

into half hearts of human time but that's all he does he whispers and it's up to us to follow his whisperings or turn away from him so he doesn't really accomplish anything and the Quran says quite clearly in Nevada less are they less la colline in salt on as for my servants you will not have any authority over them so how could it be that this young man who is coming regularly and praying and so with us that Shaitaan would have some possession of him like this and what are we then to make of responsibility in my own work of trying to I stress personal responsibility because our some of our Christian friends say

while Jesus died for our sins and I say on the contrary no we're all responsible for our own sins but we depend on a forgiving God and He will forgive us but nobody dies for our sins that would be contrary to the idea of responsibility but then if we say that gins possess people like this and causes them to do things and then the person would no longer be responsible now to transfer go back to the scene that I witnessed at the young man's home when he was violent his brothers like if he killed his brothers in that state those who believed that he was gen possessed would have to excuse his behavior because it's

not him mr. Jin was doing it and and yet the odd thing is that this would question all of the Islamic sharia because it all of the punishments that are mentioned in the Sharia for this or that crime can Kent would have to be alleviated if the criminal just simply claims that at the time I was gen possessed because now now you do not bring a psychiatrist in to evaluate whether this person is criminally responsible because the jinn with the subtlety will be there one one moment and on the next like how would you measure whether the jinn was there or not and that would use great Shuba or

doubt and ashoka alleviates the punishment yeah and to add to that I mean they say people who do support the jinn argument that the jinn can take any kind of the shuttle's so can you come it can be a human it can be an object it can be a dog it can be a snake it can be anything you can just take that appearance it can become that I mean it could be it could be a screen so the screens we're seeing right now could be a gene it could be a page so a page in the Quran that you've been reading could actually be a gene I mean it becomes ridiculous it becomes preposterous that

well how do you trust anything how do you not know that all the piron's in the world today that we memorized that weren't actually Jim how do you not like it becomes the whole argument just becomes so mind-blowing at an ad absurdum level because how do you know anything that how do you somebody could say yeah but I was taught the Quran by a teacher but how do you know that teacher wasn't a chin and then his teeth this could be a whole great gin conspiracy yeah exactly so yeah so when I when I looked at all of these details I I wasn't aware of some of the details you mentioned Sheikh about some people thinking that they you

know they jinn might even be a page in your Quran but but but I saw enough to real from it and and realize that no it cannot be the case plus I knew something from comparative religion that that helped my understanding in this regard you know in in in in medieval Christianity they there did there was of course monasticism and so monks lived in in their own Hermits and and the nuns lived in the non Aires and and yet the nuns were becoming pregnant so how did they explain this well they said well the jinns did this so they call them punk you buyer or suck you buy I don't

remember the you know okay you know it you know it's this is the evil spirits that are doing this to them but then that too is mind-boggling because how how does the evil spirit cause the woman to become pregnant you know when sometimes wouldn't be in our debates we talked about a Saleh Salaam and how he was formed in the womb of his mother I mean I put to our Christian friends you know how if he just simply was born from his mother alone without

any male intervention you would expect the child to be female for the child to be male it has to be a y-chromosome and that doesn't come from the mother so there was an actually if a physician in the UK who debated with me and and he actually admitted that the the y-chromosome must have been created by God so in that case Jesus would would be a creation of God but but he wouldn't take that he wouldn't reach that last conclusion but but now coming back to the jewelry on a side note before you come back to to that [ __ ] and we can come back to this later

on again if you like you see in I am of the view and this is obviously a recent kind of thing that I've become inclined to that Jesus was born of a natural birth aleihsalaam and this certain were fussing like Maulana Abdul Karim Allah 30 and maulana a night of dirty and others as well that held that view india tov see that it was that the quran never explicitly says that it was a virgin birth and they mentioned the father to be use of amateur Joseph the carpenter I'm not sure if that is a view that you

subscribe to but I mean I I do I have said that that is my understanding because the Quran itself if you look at the Quran it is arguing against like this a verse in of the Quran where Allah is condemning Christians and saying that look an ayah cool Allahu well it how could God have a child while I'm talking level sahiba and he did not have a female companion now according to this logic what God God's logic in this verse is flawed because they would say well Jesus was born without a companion so you know why is God using that as an

argument against them I mean this was just amongst the things I'm not sure if you find yourself in amongst those thoughts well yeah obviously you know if we if we introduced all of the controversial is also going to be difficult so yeah as for the the Jen possession issue so I you know if we

think about the idea of where the y-chromosome for Jesus come from and we have to say about God created that so you know how does the makes the woman pregnant like the Jin does not have human chromosomes because these are different species so how does the Jin and in the first place how do they intermarry with with the human race and in the second place how is it that they say that the Jin possesses the person and makes the person pregnant like it doesn't it doesn't make any sense like the way they say that and so now taking it a step further again from

you know being informed by my comparative religion studies I in the Bible there is much mention of assadís and I'm driving out demons like he would go into a certain town and he drives out demons he goes into another town he's driving out demons once he drove out so many demons that they fell that demons pleaded with him okay there don't destroy us just put us into the herd of pigs and he put them into the herd of pigs and the herd of pigs immediately rushed off the cliff to their deaths well you know if Jesus is possessing all like driving out all of these demons this seems to be one of the chief miracles that he performs not

about repeatedly he performs this in the Gospels now the Quran of course mentions many miracles of asylum even miracles that are not mentioned in the Bible and and yet the Quran doesn't mention anything about Jesus at Isis and I'm driving out demons now that would be very strange now some people say that the demons these jinns operate most in the in the warm climates now our prophet sallallaahu salaam operated in the warm climate and you may think that there would be many people in his circumstance who were possessed by jinns and we would have many reports in the authentic collections of hadith showing that he drove off a gene here

origin there but I also want to prove that the that this is the reality they would she's on a narrative from something like abu allah which is a sir known collection of hadith and probably with without the great scrutiny that well we know it's not with the great scrutiny that Bukhari and Muslim so I approach in fact there isn't a single sahih hadith in this entire category of demonic possessions yeah so so in the end I had to conclude that that this whole thing is overstated moreover shake abominable a Philips wrote a book called the exhausted tradition in Islam yeah I

did read the University of Wales and he had done some case studies of people who thought they were jinn possessed and there were treatments being given and so on and then sometimes they recurred and you know they thought they were cured and then they're back again reading all of these reports it seems that this is a psychological phenomenon and in fact Sheikh Abu Amina himself concluded that the symptoms of jinn possession are similar to the symptoms of a person on the ground going psychological problems and if we see that the person has these symptoms the best course of action is to

proceed with psychiatric treatments and if those treatments fail then you would conclude that this is a jinn a case of jinn possession of course the the psychiatrist's will not reach that conclusion they were they were thinking that there is something that eludes them and eventually that a cure is there to be found and I think that's a reasonable approach to keep searching for a cure rather than if you think position you know you mean just to be clear by queue you mean medical intervention yes

because if you think that something is Jen possess well then there will be no cure for it and then if you start thinking that things are Djinn possessed then I've heard people say that a car is Djinn possessed so you know if my car is broken I take it to a mechanic I don't conclude that there's a jinn interfering with the car and and in some Muslim societies you know jinns are so widely believed in and some people make a joke and saying that if you pick up a rock in those societies there'll be you know a number of jinns under there

mm-hmm you know similarly to that like what you said share about the car sometimes people do feel or maybe a Djinn is interfering or more so for extending forward from that they say that magic has been done onto my car well somebody has done magic on to me this is another the other side that afflicts you know the other side of the coin that's afflicting so much harm on the Muslim community when it comes to mental health one is demonic possessions and the other is this thing that okay well

if it's not a demon then it's somebody doing a magic spell on me some way and you know 7,000 miles away what what are your thoughts on this year well well all of these phenomena together like the belief that Muslims have in these phenomena is these beliefs are actually keeping muslims from advancing scientifically in along with the modern world there was a time when these things were commonly believed by muslims and non-muslims alike it seems that non-muslims have by and large advanced beyond this of course there are still non-muslims who believe in things like this

sometimes you find that a non-muslim is actually attracted to Islam because of something like you know that because they sometimes we find that a young man amazing that you say that because that is that is true in Canada sometimes it happens that a young man is experiencing some kind of jinn possession and he cannot be understood by people around him but he feels that Muslims will understand him so he gravitates towards the Muslim community and he converts to Islam so Mitch we've just got more mental health cases yeah so so so we

have to watch that we as Muslims do not take this kind of belief which belongs to people from an ancient era and advanced this as though this is part of our religion it is a misrepresentation of our religion if somebody says to me you know what shabbir you had never seen this but I've seen in my own eyes there was this case and there was this gene and there was this Exorcist well it won't follow me exhaust as they would say they shake him and he recited this and then the person was fewer than I saw it with my own eyes I would say if you're you're convinced that that happened and you believe that all the more power to you and I haven't

seen that I don't believe it happened but I trust you and I trust your narrative it raises the question for me it tells me that there's something that I don't know about but if you say that this is a religious teaching in Islam I have to say no because if to say it's a religious teaching we need to know which verses of the Quran specifies that teaching which hadith and how authentic they are and we have to put it all together but since there's no verse of the Quran that specifies that teaching since there is no authentic hadith as you said [ __ ] then where is this coming from as an Islamic belief it's not an

Islamic belief it is a belief that some people have some maybe due to source superstition some maybe due to real experiences that they have had and they're convinced that this is the reality but that's up to them but I think that it's not a reality because to say that this is a reality is going to call into question the world Islamic sharia like if you say that there is a punishment for a person like tick tick at the punishment for adultery if it is true that girls can become pregnant due to jinn possession then no one could ever be penalized for adultery because

everyone can say you know I again did this to me then then what would be your answer if we say however the jinns did not do this then we bring the person to to own up to their responsibility for their actions and it's amazing sometimes how illogical people's reasoning will get like a particular example I recall is I was speaking to somebody who was trying to prove to me that look I know Mufti you don't buy into all of this but I'm telling you it's true because I first and experience tea so I said well ok

tell me what you experienced and he said well I went into this room this bathroom or something and I'm telling you that he says I walked in everything was normal and I got this sudden pain which I had been smacked right in the eye so he said I got this sudden pain straighten me out like I've been smacked literally like somebody smacked me in the eye he said I put the light on looked around there's nobody being right so he said this nobody did

so this was the gin and and I said well I said well it could have been so for example something in the optic nerve they could have been other things going on oh no no no no and I said well ok let's say that is far-fetched like you're saying something in the optic nerve or something going on is far-fetched and what the fact that somebody Oh a demon is slapping you or somebody's doing a magic spell is not far-fetched like I mean look the obvious reasons become so far-fetched to people people say well but yeah I think these

are incredibly important I know we've kind of really been going on today shift there's been there's so much more to talk about I I'd like to just take a few quick questions maybe that some people have been posting and maybe get your responses on them and then we can you know call it a wrap inshallah and I'd love to get you on again to disk to continue certain discussions about the Quran which I did have in mind as well but these discussions were just so amazing that they kind of really I have them but I do want to at some point go over things like the holes about after off and all

of these kind of stuff and different variations but if we just I know a lot of people have been posting questions for you so I don't want to disappoint them if that's okay with you [ __ ] ok yeah for a few minutes yeah a few rapid round people will take some rapid round questions she will give some responses so here's a question my hidden midsize asked a right question for share I don't know if I fully understand this but it says is Islam feudal or anti feudal I don't even know if I understand but but I mean if you yeah so this has

to be where they do with economics and and I'm not sure I know the answer to that shape to be honest I have to think about that and do some research about it so III I don't know at this point I'm sorry I'm just trying to read your questions people said what does the ayah I mean woman shuddering pathetic odd means then if it isn't about black magic yeah so Allah knows best what his verses mean demo faster on the classical move faster on the commentators generally

said that this refers to women who were doing acts of magic but in my humble view it doesn't necessarily have to mean that that this is a reality let's say there were some women who are doing something like this and that would create some fear or misgiving or doubt in the minds of people so I making this dua and asking allah subhanaw taala to protect us from them it means that in the end we we feel assured that we are in the hands of allah subhanaw taala and we are protected it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing is going to be

effective absolutely just to very briefly just add to that I've said previously when asked about this that that whole surah begins with things that in and of themselves are not necessarily harmful like Klaus will fill up and surely my philosophy neither by the night fall as it falls there's nothing evil about the night fall but it's what happens associated with it and women sharing my father is the the kind of superstitions that come associated with these practices but yeah just just to add to that somebody has asked this maybe I'm

assuming it may require a very lengthy response but if so maybe another time or if in a few words somebody has asked about right hand possesses no that's a very lengthy discussion in and of itself but when somebody here as asked as well on Facebook as well about concubines which is the same thing so I don't know if you know I you know it yeah I just [ __ ] requires a lengthy discussion I've given some brief answers to similar questions on my website should be rally calm it so one would find the answers there but but just in brief I you know

first of all we should accept that it's the reality that in the past that people owned slaves and if some of the great figures of the Bible who are heroes and prophets in the Bible they had slaves as well ibrahim alaih-is-salaam is said to have had a female concubine Hodja and from it is from her that he had the son Ismael though the way in which slaves were thought about in in the past yeah you know it's different from the way we think about like slaves in American history for example and women in particular were very vulnerable in ancient societies and if a woman was

actually owned by us as a slave then she could be open up to all abuses but somehow the societies developed way in that in which a woman might be taken by the man as his concubine in which case she basically belongs to him as though they were married and so she would not have marital relations with with other persons and and so she was in a way a sort of wife with the distinction that she did not have her freedom she was not a free person and so in the in the early Islamic societies it looks like what the classical

commentators are telling us is that something similar happened and the prophet sallallaahu named himself had such a concubine maria alcapurrias now in in looking at the verses of the Koran very clearly and and and trying to make sense of it all and and trying to in the Quran in a way that will be meaningful to Muslims in our present times I have come to a slightly different understanding the Quran in surah 4 verse number 25 speaks about marrying the slave girls if you cannot find 3 women to get married to so it seems that the relationship that

Quran is talking about it would be one of marriage and and why are they called separately like why does it say your your your wives and your right hand possession it is because the the right hand positions were really a different category of persons at the time but but it's a sort of wife that she's but but must like the wife who is a free woman it is a different sort of wife who is called a concubine in in in like when we look at ancient practices so and if we think of it in the in the way that you know a person just goes and captures a

woman and then makes her his slave then then that's not the way it was if in in the earliest Muslim society there was no prison if prison was invented for the first time during the Caliphate of omar ideologue one where he when he saw that it made sense to have a house where you can house criminals so prior to that people were given all the kinds of punishment including banishment now what will still be done with the prisoners of war you didn't have you know a prison where you put the prisoners of war so when the Muslims were being attacked and they had to defend the nascent Islamic

society then when they were victorious they had captives from the other side just like if I lost some of their people some Muslims would be seized and and taken as captives for the other side now how where Muslims were to treat their captives when they didn't have prisoners and it wasn't even involved that he would keep prisoners of war people were taken as slaves so the women who were taken the slaves were then allotted to families and the men in those families would have the opportunity to take these women as their concubines this seems to be the way the

things are explained from the classical Islamic tradition now whether the prophets of Allah sallam himself had a concubine this now is it's not so very clear in my mind because it seems that the narratives about the Prophet assalam were not so very clear on this issue I'll give you some some something about the wife Sophia the wife of the Prophet saws and the mother of believers so when the Prophet SAW Selim took her into his tent people were and according to Mossad the people were saying okay we're gonna see how she comes up the next morning if

the Prophet SAW said and puts his cloak around her that means she's a wife so that means that the marriage that like we are familiar with a marriage whole ceremony today there's a banquet hall and their formal way of asking and responding acceptance thing I do and so on but the the marriage was not so formal people took like some vague signs as indications whether the person is married or not because the whole spirit of it is that the Kirstie's are together in the presence of witnesses so it is not something done in the corner like people would in an adulterous relationship do so in this case it's a

public affair but then they could not be clear in their minds is this person taken as a wife or as a concubine so it is possible that the Prophet a solemn had Maria as a wife but some people misunderstood that that's also being my teaching shift there and there was a student of Imam Malik one of the earliest people if mr. Bhalla one of the first people to write a biography on the wives of the Prophet and he was in Medina himself and he it's titled so Chatwin of II was watchin ABI and in the he places Mari as well as the wife of

the prophet sallallaahu some and that's been my teaching as well I'm going to just state just very quickly with that shift that on my in my response to this concubine issue I've highlighted that we have to that we have to understand like you've said that the IVA that human human humanity was slightly different in their thinking now slavery did exist but certain mindset certain paradigms weren't yet arrived at like people didn't see certain things the way they do and I've got a very lengthy video where I speak about social consciousness like a collective

consciousness it changes with certain times with certain Eva and then everybody thinks of it so as an example the way today the right to self-determination people think oh we have the right to self-determine have the right to our freedoms this is actually quite a recent way of thinking there was a time when people don't necessarily think like that they don't think Oh everybody like we have a nation we have a as the people we have the right to self-determination we have these things it just did not exist in that way so with slavery as well I too have explained that that when he did change that collective consciousness

that we trajectory hermeneutics it would have become Haram the whole thing I know that's slightly larger than the topic of sex of what people are calling sex slaves or concubines but yeah I have highlighted that just as later generations might look back today at us in certain things and think how could they tolerate like governments how could they tolerate governments how could they tolerate giving taxis so right so people saw sugar and for that people this mean I know you guys have said in so many things but we've taken up so much time of the share sugar and once again are

there any final words you'd like to say [ __ ] before you go to - yeah I'm so sorry to disappoint your your viewers I know we got care no you haven't I wish we had spent more time for Q&A but today has been an extremely busy day for me I must apologize to all of you and I thought actually occurred to me too ask chef have a life if we can actually postpone this but I I knew that was not a good idea because the last week we already had a disappointment with the technical apparatus and I didn't want you guys to be disappointed again I'm really glad you didn't it's been awesome

and so the only thing I can say as a matter of consolation can shake if you allow me to put a plug in for the rest of what I do yeah tomorrow being Wednesday inshallah at 1:30 in the afternoon Toronto time which is five hours later than then a UK time so it'll be your 1:30 it'll be your 6:30 p.m.

I'll be doing a live Facebook post so if you are on Facebook at all do join me 1:30 p.m. and hopefully if you have some questions that are pertinent to the topic I'll be discussing tomorrow I'll be glad to take them from you actually shakable light was hoping to get me to talk about the seven author of the various recitations of the Quran and so on and that actually is what I intended to talk about tomorrow so if you have questions about that do join me tomorrow and I'll be glad to talk to you then

Shalala sugar and food on shift the name of the challenge the channel on YouTube for everybody everybody knows anyway you can just YouTube they're still the name if you'd like to yeah actually be on my Facebook page okay shall be roughly like you search under Facebook for about it's the [ __ ] the name requires no introduction you will find it Google will give it to you share once again it's been an absolute honor I do apologize for going on I know you didn't have that much time today so some echinacea take very good care of yourself

Salam aleikum all right people as well said Armani