Homosexuality and Islam -Mufti Abu Layth

so there's been this discussion in europe uh uh about about homosexuals and how they should be punished in islam let me just clarify somebody sent me a message saying in i think in denmark this is quite a hot topic right now that people believe in islam you're meant to chuck homosexual homosexuals off buildings

this is nonsense people utter nonsense let me just clarify this right now this thing what is this about and there's a viral clip there's a clip that went viral about in the uk some woman teaching in an islamic school in a burka saying that we all know that you know hot gays and whatever they meant to be chucked off a cliff

these people that say these things do more damage to islam than 30 the gels put together could possibly do honestly these people really need to get a grip of themselves and study islam it is not true people first of all the prophet never spoke about homosexuals okay let's just get let's get the facts clear these hadiths that they're bringing in abu dhabi and everything that

he whosoever acts does an action of the people of luth right this is by the way on the side note it's so i think it's so raw if i can just use the word another word ain't coming to my mind it's so raw and so unacceptable but it's so widespread that homosexuals in the islamic literature are called luthi like the associates of luth and it's just like this was the name of a prophet and it's just so it's just it's just such a disservice to luth al-islam

nobody would ever name their child luth now like that's never going to happen because you just they've used the term to mean gay right so any but that's a different discussion but so this all these hadith every single hadith to do with this homosexuality is naive there isn't a single sahih that the prophet spoke about this okay i'm just saying about the prophet then there's some discussion did the companion speak about this

now people say swan they take back five different varying narrations to say the ali the satan ali said oh execute them he said chop the head off no he said throw them off a cliff no he said burn them no he said this i don't believe any of these to be authentic um i believe but if people were going to take them authentically if people i mean as the words of satan ali radhiallahu this was referring if they were that he had said we're going to kill these particular people we have to look at who was

in his lifetime dealing with and his greatest problem were the khawarij those people who were massacring and butchering people and they were the proper they were like the fathers of they were like isis on steds on steroids they were the fathers of of this kind of isis movement and they're known as the hawari like an extremist group anybody who commits a sin is a catholic so to them the companions were careful so they were the target of satan ali's kind of that battle and struggle if anything maybe if anything somebody wanted to believe that said

ali was speaking about certain culprits from that group that they needed to be executed and people and maybe whether they were also accused of homosexuality or not i don't know some amongst them but generally just about homosexuality not about them i don't believe these to be authentic okay and that's a different discussion that someday we can go through the chains and i can show you why they're weak now the scholars when asked about this imam malik and other scholars said we believe like imam malik some people transmit that he said oh i've heard it still being said and i believe that he's

this comment of his is dismissive he said i heard it still being said that they ought to be stoned like the way people of zina are stoned and stuff like this now to me this i heard it being said was a dismissive way because rather than why not him just say it that's one thing now other scholars said that look this hasn't been discussed therefore we're going to just treat this like zina this is the same ruling as zinna like imam shafe and these scholars other scholars like

ibrahim and other scholars like al-haqam and they said look this can't be ahad in islam because islam never spoke about it so yes imam hanifah you can punish these people if you want if you felt this was a public indecency you could punish this with a punishment that you come up with but it couldn't be capital punishment because in the hanafi method it doesn't reach the state of hud so that's the background now people have started to say that there is ijma

that these people have anybody who commits homosexuality deserves death this is what they're saying that is nonsense that is nonsense okay let me just clarify and there's a quote from ibn tayyim because we're down on time but you can find it online ibn al jazeera and even even tamiya is one of the harsh people against uh all this homosexuality as well but his student ibn goes on to say that we believe this is the greatest crime of humanity

after disbelief he and he says here and it is arguably greater than murder [Laughter] honestly i don't even know what to say to that that is seriously misplaced that i mean i honestly these kind of things are disappointing statements disappointment isn't the word from ibrahim who sometimes makes very interesting uh uh interesting things

that on the left there is nobody are you talking about this thing this is part of this is my couch it's one of those reclining uh so now ignore him makes this statement saying that this is the greatest crime after disbelief is just sodomy and he says sodomy with anybody or anything it's just the greatest sin ever and it's greater than murder arguably which is ridiculous and i don't want to go into a psychoanalysis right there because i don't want to be disrespectful to hypno but we know what psychoanal analysis would kind of lead us to there

but uh this kind of thing is absurd and people said nobody first of all no let me kind of uh let me kind of just add something here first of all this is gonna come as a real shock to people they have actually even been scholars that have said homosexuality is fine right so i'm just going to scare the hell out of everybody by saying that i'm not saying i agree with those scholars but i'm saying that they have been scholars great scholars like al qaddi who was a great scholar

he was the grand supreme judge of he was the supreme judge of basra he was a contemporary of imam ahmed and he was a good friend of imam ahmad and until their later years they've had a falling out and then they no longer kind of talk to each other he was a great scholar of hadith and philip um and he had his own way like his own kind of way of method of doing things he didn't matter usually implies of a great following it wasn't like that but he was a man of great resp respect he also was very close to the caliph

moon hence he became quite untouchable so people say why because he became he was very close very close to the caliph moon loved him it's only in the last few months of mahmoud's life that he had a falling out with him over the quran creation issue and they say moon kind of spoke a bit bad about him and distance but that was only for a few months and then ma moon dies but otherwise moon loved him muhammad allah mean that these people were really good with him these were the caliphs the sons of

haruna rasheed now he was openly homosexual and he used to say that homosexuality he used to prove it from the quran he used to say allah is in the quran and he was a great faking judge of his time and he used to use the verses of the quran like that wealth and boys are the beauty of this world that was his take and he also went to the uh he used the verse of the quran that zuyinali nasih that

these desires have been made pleasing to men right the following desires have been made pleasing to men men and nisa of women and boys most people understood boys here to mean sons but he said it was connected right with women so he said allah is showing this that this so he was a clear proponent who openly argued by the way and the caliph openly used to be homosexual as well like in fact amin was very became strongly just homosexual

and moon was kind of both way he was just sexual he was just i suppose it's fair game [Laughter] kind of thing so so they weren't really like he just wasn't fussed boy girl you know wife cousin sims him [Laughter] he was kind of like like that so he didn't really have much of an issue now and and by the way some ulama say that this some thing these are lies attributed to him so there are many scholars that uh try to dissociate between him

and these opinions but the truth is this is so well known even many you know people like all the even zahabi will transmit them all these people will say that some people say okay maybe people exaggerated but this was so well known about him it wasn't like a little unknown there was a poem uh i had this poem somewhere that uh

that people had said about this was slightly just before him this was about amin who was by the way i mean was obsessed with this particular slave boy of his called kotha right and they said about him and he gave him this position as well and they said about him and they said that you know the uh the homosexuality of the wazir of the khalifa is just it's like a wonder of the world it's kind of thing and most amazing than that

it's something so like wow what the hell most um uh astonishing than that is what the minister gets the portion of the minister fahada he said well this one does and that one gets done and he said for god's sake things have just taken a different turn and he kind of like uh said about that and by the way in his time in a means time and moons time uh eunuchs like these kind of boy

slave boys that were um you know that were eunuchs so for whatever reason they they were of no use sexually as active sexual males their prices massively increased and you can check the books of history why because they were purchasing them like mad and there was this craze about purchasing them and so the reason i've said this is just to show that these things were you know so when people say and i'm not saying i agree with these things and these may come as a shock but these things were known and there was actually a poem the khalifa

moon once got uh this was so well known that poets had made poems about him and they uh he the caliph himself came across this poem so he said to him once to wind him up he said he said yeah yeah he said what do you think about this this poet who said uh and the poet's name was something like ahmadine and he said what he said hey who was the poet who said this and he says the poem that god judge

he says a judge who says that you should punish the adulterer but he says there is no punishment for the one committing homosexuality he says who was the poet that said that he was winding him up and he follows on by saying uh he said god yahya says well that was and he goes on to read another line of his where he's also attacking the caliph and he says he's the one who also says this by the way so he kind of has a go at him now this the reason i'm saying this is just to show you that whoa and he was

a great scholar now after him by the way there was after him the great uh yeah junior to him was uh or a contemporary of him was the great scholar uh his son muhammad was also a known open homosexual in fact this book is an analysis of book which was written for

if i can find it here uh it was written for the boy who he was madly in love with and his name was muhammad ibn assad learning he was madly in love with him and it was such a well-known thing and in fact they say about him that

used to be known by another name as well of uh ibn zucherov he was known by ibn zuchroff as well that one day of like their love was so well known that one day ibn zukhruff they say was looking in the mirror and and he thought to himself wow i am actually good looking and he thought that i might give myself the evil eye so he covered his face with a towel and he walked to ibn who was a great scholar by the way and and he and dawud says why the hell have you why

have you covered your face like this he said that i saw myself with such beauty such good looks and i thought the first person to see me should be you ah [Laughter] what's that damn there's one of those like shadowhunt poses going on here this is uh this this one love this one what's that uh faraz says he says

that there were many ways to destroy and destroy me for us that there were many ways if you thought about it [Laughter] [Music] i wonder why they only thought of love [Laughter] so this thing you see the reason i've said this is to not to kind of

burst not to kind of upset people but to burst the bubble and even after uh by the way even after ibn dawood who was madly in love with this person ibn hasan's book tokul hamama is full of this kind of stuff my reason for saying this is look just chill out you don't need to become gay nobody's telling you and you won't become gay don't you don't need to be so insecure about your sexuality and i quoted the other day about uh i quoted imam malik when he was asked in the

madovana and i had it here when he's asked in the mudovana about incestual relationships which were a greater taboo are that people that are marrying their own mothers and they're marrying their own sisters and daughters and that's the what they do should we in where possible should we stop and intervene them and imam malik said no he said if that's their deen and deen means way of life let it be he says allah teaches you to be tolerant even of those who reject him so what about his laws so this was the

legend of medina people so what i'm trying to say is that these things you do by saying stuff like throw people off cliffs what a stupid thing to say what a stupid thing to say yes in the past certain scholars classed that as zena the way they saw punishment for and zina fell under public office obscenity that people that were causing public obscenities and different places have punishments for these would change over time that they had a punishment for that for some it was equal to zina

for some they said like abu hanifah they said it was less than zina now others and ibrahimo and so on now and then scholars along the centuries came like imam al-budzuli who said that in his day and age 600 years ago the hadood all these punishments would change and reflect their age and people continue to and i've got a video on that on youtube so when you say these things you make the damage you do to islam apart from just lying you and just attributing things to the prophet and allah that they have not said and people say yeah but why did allah

punish the people of luth so much you see what was the what was the crime of the people of ruth yes first of all the verses speak of homosexuality arguably about rape they could do speak about that there is that angle but what was their biggest crime their rejection of the prophet the torturing of the prophet them wanting to break into his house and kidnap and rape the guests that he had this the fact that they rejected the message of god in front of them this was their primary crime

not the fact that's like saying oh the people of madiyan were also destroyed you know they also got punished yeah but what did they used to do that when they were buying and selling they used to tip the scales yeah but people are tipping the scales all the time do you hate them as well so much do you say when oh when you sold that you put the price of oh the people of madiyan what did they do with shuaib shaib ah they got what did they do with tribe but their primary crime the main crime was how they rejected the prophet of god that was the main crime not the other thing was also a crime the fact that you

tipped the scales and you con the customers was also a crime but was the destruction because of this now where do you get that from and that's just an opinion then that's your inference allah didn't say that specifically that's you inferring so yes look because certain things are haram first of all not all scholars in islam unanimously agreed that that was haram most outright majority did say it's haram some did disagree so just being honest and being objective and transparent majority accepted it haram and we accept it's haram

but you don't need to have that level of this hatred and saying things like this