Unanswered Questions- An interview with Mufti Abu Layth

for uh taking the time out to allow me to respond to some of the questions that people have been asking and I mean there's some genuine curiosity out there so I'd like to inshah uh elaborate on some of these in detail um for many of our friends brothers sisters out there students and teachers that have uh become aware of the predicament that befell me I was imprisoned for just under two months

around s weeks and it was a lot of people have been asking what led up to this actual incident it was actually a um uh an incident that dated back a few years really so we're talking almost over three years ago and it wasn't um something that was so huge but rather had been made huge at a later date there was an incident with a friend of mine a very good friend of mine uh somebody I've known since childhood that

his he came home to find his uh family had were missing and he panicked and his children were missing and and they were young just around six and eight and he he was really really close with his with his family especially his children and so he kind of panicked and he tried to seek help from the authorities who he felt weren't being very helpful at the time now he had reached out to me as a dear friend to ask if I could um help in any possible way so I attempted to arrange mediation and this is what the gist of

of the the incident was surrounding now in order to arrange mediation I had contacted a police officer uh and spoke of mediation at a much later dat and although nothing much came of that mediation unfortunately at a later date um we're talking almost 2 years later or one and a half years later I was asked to testify against this police officer to be a witness against him for something which I didn't believe that he had done anything wrong in trying to help us uh I wasn't really too interested as a consequence um I myself then faced charges of aiding and abetting a

misconduct in a public office uh for which we were imprisoned me my friend as well and we we were given a six-month sentence so I mean that that was the really the gist of what had taken place I don't feel that I actually did anything wrong um I feel that all I simply was trying to do was help a friend uh somebody who was just trying to reconnect with his children and I feel that we were I mean this is my perception and although people may disagree I feel we were unfairly um treated against in a way

just because we refused to kind of give add to the case of the prosecution against this person that they were interested in so that was um that was the event that's a uh a good question contrary to to my expectation the time the seven weeks we spent in which considering what people are spending within prison is a very I mean it's it's relatively nothing but it was enough to give an amazing insight to a whole

world that I feel I myself and I mean I I feel maybe many others as well are completely oblivious to um I found it that alhamdulillah our time actually within went went very contrary to expectation went very well uh Allah be praised that um no matter how much we thank Allah it is really insufficient Allah subhana tala looked out for us I mean we found we found ourselves being quite almost like like comfortably kind of just floating through those weeks or our

time within and alhamdulillah there's um it more than anything I'm apart from just the stay I am actually grateful for having had that insight to seeing people see being able to um I don't know like maybe share thoughts stories uh listen to the concerns of people from all walks of life people who maybe it would have been inconceivable that we would generally have crossed paths so you now have time to come across these people you meet

them you talk to them you understand how the struggles of others um it really I I find found that incredibly insightful so you know alh Allah be praised I this is an interesting question uh that what was my some people had been asking what was my uh did I was I involved in the prevent program and if so in what capacity people had been asking and what is my general advice to people who do we feel in my opinion to that we should be engaging or

disengaging I mean I haven't been involved with prevent for at least a couple of years now I haven't done I mean it's it's been at least over two years now that I've not been involved with them however I feel I mean I'm not an expert on the prevent strategy but I feel that this was a program an initiative that had began several years back with some I believe that the objectives were actually um were actually good initially they were to

engage um the Muslim or the local communities in tackling radicalization so from that perspective I'd like to say that first of all as far as tackling radicalization and this is something I'd like to come back to at a later point is is a is an active duty of all uh Muslims especially learned people who are involved in teaching and educating and things like that so that is where it is as far as prevent is concerned I do agree with recently there was a Muslim Chief super intendant from the Met police who um had been quite um outspoken really about prevent and he he

criticizes it of um becoming having become toxic and uh having really lost its purpose I do actually agree with uh um with Dal this former Chief superintendent uh that prevent has become along the way toxic I um it is generally viewed with suspicion by Muslims the local communities no longer wish to engage with it and therefore it's lost its purpose based on that I wouldn't at this stage having now known what I do know advise engagement with it

because I see it as counterproductive um so I wouldn't advise people to engage with it my own experiences as well have been along the way rather strange uh initially I mean contrary to what many people may or may not know when when prent was introduced into local communities many most major murgi were engaged with prent um and they contined to do for continue to do so for at least a couple of years um in the imams were contacted major imams to act as mentors so I was also contacted and asked that would you be a mentor to

somebody because many people are not actually involved not actually uh aware of what is the role of people who have so my own personal role when I did um when I was involved with prevent and it wasn't on a full-time type of capacity it was just um like episodic or periodic type of Engagement and involvement and it was as a mentor so it involved things like uh if people felt that there was somebody and usually it was the council it was driven by the council initially and also by by the police and the authorities as well that if they felt there was a person not that who was extreme but he

may have been borderline radical they felt this they are not in a position to talk to the person or to ask him questions about his faith because they don't know about the faith so they turned to the local community and they asked the local community that would you be prepared to speak to this person since you have a common Faith so they turn to imams to to m they turned I was also asked would I take up this mentoring role which I did um so what that would mean is they would ask this person that look there seems to be some concerns they feel there's some

concerns they will ask him that will you are you prepared to speak to an Imam are you prepared to speak to somebody who knows about Islam uh you may have questions you can ask that person are you prepared if this person said okay yes sure I'll speak to somebody they would then contact an Imam or they would contact a um usually they would contact one of their mentors hopefully that would be an Imam um which was my capacity as well that I was a mentor for so they would contact me let's say as well say look are you would you be happy to go and meet this person and I'm fine I mean I

would go meet this person um if that person agreed for us to for him to be mentor it was only done by this person's consent so if I would meet the person say look I introduce myself this is who I am I've studied Islam like this uh do you have any questions sometimes people would have a few questions sometimes they wouldn't I would ask them would you want me to come and kind of meet you whether it's once a month or sometimes it may be twice whatever it was would you want to speak to me about Islam and speak to me about certain things on many occasions people said yeah that's fine I I don't mind you coming along uh you know I'd

like you to come um in some cases people would say no now you would go and you'd work with with these people generally most PE people were not actually um radicals or you know they were not radical in most cases you you'll find people were just just being silly and you know somebody may have said something wrongly said something they may have wrongly written something they may have just TR some people may have thought they were being funny by saying certain things which other people around them were very sensitive too and so therefore that fell under you know this person becoming flagged up as or

being reported as is radical so you would hopefully clear all of this as a mentor you would visit this person You' tell you know the person would tell you what the incident was youd meet on a few occasions if the person had any questions you'd help guide them and that's that on a handful of occasions there were people who did did maybe have some dangerous thoughts and uh they were they were a minority of people but they you know there were some occasions where people did have some um some dangerous perhaps wishes and things like this which you would try to work with in

saying look you you want to kind of ask why does this person have so much hatred against uh certain people in society why because ultimately that hatred and God forbid harm which they may want to kind of undertake will only come back on everybody including the Muslims as well so you try to work with this person in saying look look why talk to me and and you know you try to show them historical examples you try to work with them so that was my involvement um with prevent it was on in that capacity there was no such thing I'd like to clarify there was no such thing as a like covert

operations so uh I mean I'm not saying that the government or people do or do not have things like that I'm just saying this wasn't as far as what we were aware of within prent as mentors uh what we were generally aware of there were a few imams up and down the country that were involved in this like I said many most within Birmingham I can speak of Birmingham all the major mid were involved with prent I mean there isn't a single major Masjid in Birmingham that was not and that's public records but I mean the thing is that there isn't sometimes people feel that if somebody was involved with prevent it meant they

were spying you were I mean there was no such thing I mean we were any Mentor was clearly told that it would be unlawful for a person to collect data uh in a uh in a secretive or surreptitious or um in a covert manner it would actually be unlawful and anybody doing that would get into trouble I mean this is what we were told and that's what everybody acted by when you turned up to somebody to to offer them mentoring to Mentor them before you even came they were asked it was voluntary they were asked would you like to speak to an Imam

because obviously the authorities are not uh you know they not an authority on the dean they're not going to speak they're not actually allowed to engage with you on matters of the dean so they're not allowed to the authorities or council members are not allowed to sit somebody down and say you know well talk to me about this of the Quran and I think it's a different opinion or I think cuz that's not their remit so they're not allowed to do that so they have so they will resort to people of the faith to come in and engage with these people and it's all done with the person want his willingness his willfulness is key to the mentoring program so I mean that's what I would do

is there was no such thing as spying I mean I would consider that absolutely Haram um you know to to be working against Muslims or to be generally against people and especially against Muslims in a way where you are spying on them where you are trying to uh land people in trouble and whether you're trying to gain monetary Rewards or you're trying to gain brown brownie points or whatever you're trying to do if you are trying to cause harm to the community at large and the Muslim Community especially by doing things like this uh that would be impermissible that and that's something I've I had never in any of the mentoring program that I was involved in come across somebody doing something like and

neither were there any suggestions so that's was my involvement which was like I said it wasn't a full-time involvement but it was periodic I would be you know whether it was um odd occasions I mean my full-time in involvement was in other things I would teach I would do other things but this was uh on the side and it wasn't something I was keeping very quiet I was very open about look this is what I'm involved in most who know me uh that have actually sat with me I've told them a lot of the times oh by the way I do mentoring as well uh part of uh prevent you know they ask me and usually the know about it and I've mentioned it openly the whether they're here whether

they're International whether they're local I mean any of the that have come visited me I've always been open about these type of things so it's nothing um kind of all clandestine and hidden and it's not spying or Espionage or MI5 or you know all these type of things which people were wondering and they were asking these questions um it it is what it is I mean that's what it was that was our in that was my involvement like I said I haven't really been involved in it for almost over two years now um I I'd left the whole thing now seeing what it's become now I mean my my own

personal experience was that I um it was it quite strange actually that I found despite you know doing let's say good work and and this and I just want to say as a side note and I know I'll come back to this but um the Dr radical or counter off like countering the radical narrative is something all duat and imams and Scholars and Community leaders are meant to be doing anyway and most people are engaged in that without I mean being they're not necessarily involved in a government program but they're doing it on their own anyway which is something we were doing on our own regardless of prevent and we were

doing this much before prevent was even introduced and much after we actually left prevent we continued to counter these type of any of these uh what may be cancerous elements within the community so so I mean I just thought well look I'll shed some light on this was my role I did actually find um well strangely that there were people within the counterterrorism unit despite doing even maybe good work for the community and good work that they were aware of that they from my personal experience I found them that they worked against they worked against me as an individual uh I

found that certain inspectors at the time who were counterterrorism inspectors kind of colluded and work and uh and and they did all sorts and which actually the their type of working against me was part of what led to my imprisonment and it didn't really make any sense to me at the time it still really doesn't why they were doing that because I mean I I mean I I don't know what angle they were playing on that but I mean Allah and I have actually I mean for that I have pursued the you know the right Avenues of made formal complaints and just for my complaints to go through it took over a year and and so there's there's been certain things which uh you

know have been going on so I myself have been a victim as well of this this process um I do agree as I said with the the for the former Chief superintendent who was a Muslim uh D that that this has become toxic and therefore I wouldn't advise Muslims to engage in it at this stage I but on their own Muslims should be involved in countering radicalization so that's their own independent Duty regardless of this that said I don't feel I think it's important to say as well that we have some

politically uh active Muslim groups and you see their perspective on this is although I might say look I don't advise people to engage now seeing what it is and the way it's led to this type of toxicity or whatever this suspicion now although they may say a similar thing but I disagree with their their ontology where they're coming from a lot of these type of groups feel any association with the government is working for the it's working for this false monstrous type of God out there that you are I don't believe that to be true at all I mean that's not a scholarly

um you know interpretation in that sense or not a correct scholarly interpretation anyway that that if a person Works assists let's say any of the authorities and they happen to be non-muslim that it is a that itself I mean to me is a concerning ideology I don't feel that you know just setting up all of a sudden whether it's going to be the local authorities or whatever they are as d as false gods uh besides Allah that is not how um true Muslim scholarship whether classical scholarship traditional scholarship and today modern true Muslim scholarship sees these things so I completely

disagree categorically that these are Nots these are not false gods but I do accept that there are negative elements that are within these strategies and within these programs that unfortunately for some reason um contrary to their objectives are working against the Muslim Community and I mean they're working against sometimes Muslims I myself have been a victim of that as well so I do feel that look that that is true and so I would accept that and I would also say that this whole thing needs to be reviewed but Muslims themselves do need to remain engaged in

uh questioning IDE in in in viewing uh correct and what would be incorrect ideologies and setting people straight so I've been asked or some questions have been raised that during my this trial or the events surrounding my trial before that um or just somewhat a short time before that that I had been quoted to be referring to uh a local school which everybody's aware of that I used to work at as um the Trojan Horse

school that was this me making allegations of the Trojan Horse scandal or the troj horse matter to be valid was I validating it I mean I feel that that's uh misrepresenting what I said um the quotes are there people can see my my statement wasn't aimed at the school my statement was aimed at the police and the authorities that what I was saying is that it doesn't make any sense to me that members of and offices of the counter terrorism are colluding

with this school sharing data about me sharing my whereabouts what I've been doing uh sharing like certain like activities I've been involved in with the school working with them to lead up to um you know all sorts of trouble for me which I mean part of which was my imprisonment and part of which was other things like it didn't make any sense to me so I raised the question that look the counterterrorism they are St because and the authorities were stating that this school is a trojan horse school this was the that the me the same school that the media had hyped up that this was a school of

potential extremism it was a school of potential I mean I'm not saying it was but I'm saying this is what the picture the picture was that had been painted at the time in the media and the authorities uh some the police even did look into an investigation although they they found no reason to proceed but but they did look into it at a point so how can it be that you have a school like this um W which is being hyped up but yet we're finding that the counterterrorism themselves are sharing data and they're sharing all sorts of uh

information about me which is really I mean it's confidential I mean you can't just be releasing with no in in what is not a police matter and just trying to share it with at the request of certain members within the school that they were sharing this and and this was coming back and forth quite freely uh quite a bit of information was being shared about me so I I found it you know absolutely shocking to see that there was no um you know there's no respect for data protection or for confidentiality or nothing and yet put even all of that aside cast that aside the authorities themselves are seem to be with the media especially the

counterterrorism in point a finger at this school but yet when it came to me they were prepared to kind of they were working with them in just trying to kind of Point some fingers at me so I didn't so my statement when I made a statement was actually aimed at the authorities I wasn't actually aiming something at the school I was saying that how can the authorities be doing this I don't understand that this the counterterrorism why are they working against me like I don't understand what they were what are they trying to achieve or I mean I understand what they're trying to achieve they're trying to get me into trouble but what what has led what is the drive behind this that's why what I was asking

so the question wasn't aimed at uh the school I mean I I that's uh and I wasn't in any way trying to validate that and the incident the article obviously clarifies I wasn't speaking about this I was just saying that the so-called Trojan Horse you actually you're not even just sharing you know confidential or restricted data about me and my whereabout and all this stuff to just anybody you're actually sharing it to people who you yourself are making all these allegations about so it I mean so what I mean so we just really beged the question that why are you after me so to that extent I mean what seems to be going on so that

was really um that angle I I know some people had asked that question so I mean it's good to just clarify that that I'm not kind of trying to sensationalize the hype on something I was more just questioning the sincerity of the local counterterrorism and uh some inspectors especially that were were involved right okay this it's an interesting question because I think um some people have asked that uh that some journalists who may be islamophobic or not you know they've come out and they've said certain things I don't

think you see to be fair many people have criticized me as well I don't think if somebody comes out and say something that they happen to be your best friend or they happen to it doesn't people see their own interests I obviously spoke out against the local counterterrorism uh especially their inspector for sharing uh what was sensitive data about me to the local school now some people saw a mutual interest that they had an interest in whatever concerns that school therefore they may have highlighted the story and shared that I don't think it it was anything really

beyond that and to I mean to speculate I mean one can speculate but it doesn't really uh lend any validity to the argument so I don't I don't agree with the fact that I don't have many islamophobes coming out to protect me or to to say anything about me or to if they shared an article because of a mutual interest and that's up to them there's many people who would disagree with perhaps the majority of what I have to say so but I think it's a good question since it's since it had been raised the Isis the threat of Isis and

my thoughts on that I think um that I have spoken quite openly against this type of uh really dangerous type of mindset this takir mindset and I spoken I've spoken about it previously and uh whether it's been through social media Facebook Facebook or on Twitter or you know I've I've given um i' I was actually involved in the first um fatwa that was released within the UK signed by six imams at the time throughout the country La last year

in September and that was the first fwa to be released speaking against and condemning this ideology and these and the people and that preceded what later on I know there was a 100 people or so on that all signed a a a a joint statement but prior the first fatwa that was actually released from the UK by any imams I was a part of that so I mean I've uh proactively kind of spoken against this um what seems to be a bit of a crazy ideology um it is very you see Isis they are they have a mindset which

is it is obviously very ruthless very cold and the thing is what people have to understand that it's not just against non-muslims it's against everybody that they huge perhaps most of the or at least a a larger proportion of their victims have been Muslim as opposed to non-muslim so it's not that they're just a threat to non-muslims they're a threat to each and all really they do have a mentality that um shows no mercy they have obviously their understanding of what they're trying to establish and they're working towards that I do feel that we need to

um as a community obviously work with people in shedding um greater light on what are the true principles of Islam it is difficult because Islam is constantly under attack um whether it's Isis or whether it's boo Haram or whether it's somebody else or it's all it's always going on and the Muslims are getting the worst of like people say things like why don't you know why AR Muslims out there marching against why Muslims until Muslims don't do it but that isn't right either you see you can't just people lay the blame on a community like Christians don't take the blame for Hitler I mean

people don't you know so it's you can't get individuals and then hold a community respon sense of collective guilt that seems to be out there is is is unfair in addition to that I do also feel um that I mean there's been some very interesting documentaries that have recently been on as well that how much of this war on terror has actually LED and things like foreign policy have actually led to um the creation of things like Isis I mean are they a byproduct there was a very interesting documentary speaking about the whole um the type of uh operations that were

taking place The Joint special ops that were taking place within Iraq and the documentary still available and it showed and it demonstrated how the rise of Isis was a byproduct that they had just that you know there's many people who had been kind of just taken up impr prisoned and then they show in the documentary all these these prisons which ran for so long and how people were just there and obviously when they were released the what the documentaries suggested was that these people made up a huge number of what was to become Isis but it is interesting that's what I'm saying and I think this denial of foreign policy playing a role is also fundamental to

the to the ongoing problem that until people don't acknowledge that we can't like people countries can't just go off and continuously just Loot and Rob and and deceive or attack people that all crimes have to be treated equally it can't just be a crime done to a particular thing is a crime is a is a heus crime and we're as sending drones and you know just killing people indiscriminately or whatever that's that's okay it was done with a good intention you can't crimes have to be seen it there has to be an equal an egalitarian approach um so I do feel

that said I mean the issue of Isis is there and the do need to um treat it I do feel that in order to tackle it we need to reclaim traditional Islam uh I feel that the what we don't want to do is just become so apologetically defensive which will actually help the cause of these groups so for example the topic of jihad and things like this Jihad as always the topic the concept of jihad has existed within the Quran within the Sunnah it's it's been there the majority

of the umah traditionally have always accepted these Notions now there has been some debate usually most of the umah historically the scholarship um from what they've interpreted from the Quran and Sunnah is that Jihad was served and utilized by the you know by the Muslim empires offensively as well where it was strategic to do so historically they did do these type of things now to deny this you see to deny this concept to deny these things sometimes it fuels it's an easy way out like somebody

sometimes you get some people saying oh there's no such thing as Jihad in Islam it's all J it's a struggling against the self or some people say oh not the only time Jihad has ever existed was when you in absolute dire threat and a form of ultimate last self-defense but the problem with this quick exit is that it actually feeds the the frenzy of these Fanatics like Isis all these other people because they then say Oh look see these people are getting it all wrong they don't even know the de they don't even know the

sources so the true way is to take to tackle the bull by the horns you take true ownership you appropriate it that yes these things have existed yes they are within Islam but however they have a context to them they have conditions to them they have it it's not just you know something that is just used at the whims and desires of anybody but it's like any type of uh you know you'd say any type of civiliz ization has had its military aspect so I mean to to Really tackle to take these questions head on is the way to also deal with threats like Isis

because to just ignore to just play wash down or play Down uh these type of Concepts it feeds into their da their type of what they're preaching because they will preach to people that most Scholars you come across most people you come across will be sellouts there will be people that will deny things there will be people that say this doesn't even exist but yet look here it is in this Hadith here it is in this verse of the Quran here it is so if you just speak that rhetoric you won't even be listened to by people who are maybe contemp or who find the appeal of radical groups like

Isis appealing so I think you know may Allah give us toi to really reclaim traditional Islam I mean and to you know to really uh help and Aid the spread of the true harmonious message of this thing uh I think it's a it's it's an interesting question that the media suggest toward the general narrative out there um or a narrative rather out there suggests that there is a rise in radicalization do I agree with this

um May maybe in some ways yes some ways know that I think um I think there is a much greater rise towards true traditional Islam uh by the Muslims in large and in general as opposed to what there was let's say two decades ago so it it depends it all comes down to the lens by which you're viewing the scenario if you're going to say look two decades ago there wasn't um I mean I don't want I don't like words like islamism and stuff like this I think that's actually tainting Islam in a negative way but if you're going to say

radicalization or or militant this type of militant Islam that people are using when they're saying radicalization or extremism if you're going to say well two decades ago this wasn't there the way it is today therefore it's risen from that lens okay it may make sense you're right obviously they weren't these in in a similar light like the way you've got worldwide boo Haram you've got whether it's going to be the things taking place in Libya whether it's going to be the things in in the Middle East Isis all these type of groups yes so you from that perspect however to decades ago there wasn't that Islam itself

wasn't kind of um I don't know people weren't Awakening to Islam the way they are today so there seems to be a lot more of a spirit of Islam worldwide this Consciousness which almost surprisingly I mean Allah uh and you know you know everything is from Allah that um we see that there seems to be this Collective Consciousness that people are gaining about Islam and there seems to be an interest and whether you want to look at an academic level so for example we have many countless books that have been brought back into that have seen the light of day after centuries

centuries and centuries and now we have them uh whether you want to look at things like the level of scholarship the level of discussions when I say scholarship people may question that you know true that historically there were people with sometimes much greater talent in in the sense of what their memory allowed them and things like this but today the engagement in discourse so if you're going to say I don't know like people discussing at a very small level and I know it may seem irrelevant but let's say people discussing things like oh is itah to do or not to do Salah

is it Sunnah to I know that may be seen as a useless question as in whether it's Sunnah to raise the hands in Salah or not but the point is this interest did not exist a few decades ago now the collective Consciousness seems to have risen where people have an interest to minute detail they have an interest to these type of things so with that so because there seems to be this Awakening this social Awakening to Islam with with it you will also get some bad elements that are also awoken and therefore you will get certain political groups that will make all sorts of cries you will

get takies who turn against Muslims who call all Muslim excommunicate them call them kufar you'll get all sorts and so from a perspective I could agree that okay you know if you're seeing it from that lens you may see that there has been a rise in uh you know an extremist type of uh radicalization but on from the other hand know that I feel that many many many more Muslims the majority of Muslims have kind of awoken to a true spirit and a traditional Spirit of Islam okay the question on speaking of traditional Islam that I've been branded

a modernist how would I respond to to that I don't it's a good question I have uh been asked this before as well that look I am not a I mean it doesn't I suppose people are going to say well I'll say that anyway that I'm not a modernist but I'm not in that sense no I think that we have to draw a distinction between um somebody being let's say of his age in his appearance in his Outlook i' I'd like to say stylish but don't know if people would agree with that but I mean if somebody being of his age

contemporaneous and that's in his Outlook does that necessarily reflect his views so you see I myself have always uh called to what is the school of Medina uh the understanding that was um that was found present in Medina during the time of the Sal and that is the the and the of which amongst two The Scholar of Medina IM Malik was he lived in Madina at that time I uh you know passionately agree with those views I

try to wholeheartedly follow them that is what we teach uh most of the texts I've always been involved in teaching and I'll and I'll speak about that maybe in a moment if I get a chance but um have been all traditional texts usually texts that have been written over a thousand years ago something I've been involved in teaching for almost over what 2 three years now I've been teaching the which is considered uh one of the oldest brief summary texts within the school of Medina I mean it's over a thousand years old so I wholeheartedly

disagree with modernism Mo in in as a um academic approach modernism is where a person calls to boycott or feels that they are not bound by classical thought that they feel they need to be like that their views do not have to be judged or gauged by classicism so they would say that I don't care what the imams had to say I don't care what the had to say I don't care about that they don't live in the 21st century that attitude is wrong because this de is a legacy it has been conveyed from

generation to generation and we trace it back with our chains uh one of the things I'm you know I consider a gift uh an invaluable gift of from Allah that um that he has blessed me with some chains that my chains of tradition in Hadith is something my chains of tradition in the Quran that that we have chains that when we've been authorized by our teachers to teach it wasn't just that I give you permission like it was it was with a chain my teacher's name his teacher's name his teacher's name going back to the messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wasallam himself

now so I don't believe in My Views or in my thinking that I am or I'm trying to be as accurate as possible that in my religious approach that I am a modernist at all I've never called to boycotting the classicist thought I in fact consider that to be a a heresy really to to kind of say that we don't need our Legacy we do we are more Ren need of our Legacy today than ever before but at the same time it's there are some things which I feel have been

misinterpretations of our Legacy that some people have felt oh to to make a true call to the to our Legacy means we have to like not only let's not only uh let's not only cry the maab of IM Abu IM Malik but let's also dress like them now I don't feel that they ever asked you to do that I don't feel that they would have ever asked you to just as when Islam was spreading then they weren't saying that oh right wherever Islam goes we must take the Arab let's say custom of our age and arabasz or arabize the whole world so if we if

Islam reaches Eskimos they have to walk around in thobes and sandals I don't think that was ever the the purpose and they never ever made such claims in fact Imam Abu hanifah himself was critiqued for for the type of dress that he was introducing getting involved in there was this new trend at the time of long sleeves and so on and and he was becoming a part of that but the point being that you C just because you appear modern in your dress sense or the way you might do certain things does not mean that conceptually you are calling to boycotting classical thought which is

absolutely inaccurate so no not at all uh I do believe that the only true Way Forward is to claim and to reclaim and be part of traditional Islam so why I do feel that there has been that's my personal understanding whether people agree with it or not and I feel that the part of that rise in islamophobia is associated with the collective Awakening of Islam and the Muslims as a as a as a type of social phenomenon so worldwide people seem to be uh Awakening to Islam in one way or another there seems to be a lot like I mentioned a lot more

activity than there was like let's say two decades ago three decades ago there seems to be a lot more books in print now people seem to have an interest I mean we for example here in the UK are speaking about people like Imam Malik we speaking about we speaking about names which would never have been mentioned in communities like this before so there seems to be this Awakening now with it there does also as a reaction I do feel that there has been an Awakening or a rise not an Awakening but a rise in islamophobia because I mean people are afraid at times of things which are

different um in Arabic there's a saying that people easily become opposed to something which they do not understand so I do feel that I feel that this is really because um people don't understand uh Islam and Muslims and also at times there is a small I do feel there is a marginal input by Sometimes some fools or maybe some idiots that do Mis portray Islam and they they bring out certain they make certain statements and they say certain things which then aggravates certain people to react and

so people think what's going on you know people say oh we're going to do this we're going to take over the country we're going to do this we're going scry takes place and and so recently like we see in countries like within Europe like Germany and the whole you know the the whole movements the anti-islam movements and stuff like this so I do feel that it's definitely there has been a Rise um I do feel a lot of it is down to things like scry and it's down to things like uh you know just misrepresentations and just being afraid of what you don't truly understand that sort of phobia I think that really we have to ourselves

we have to begin with ourselves like you know like as in whenever it comes to whether it's like in the Hadith we are taught the principle whether it's charity or whatever it's a good thing you're trying to do begin with yourself then those around then immediately with your family and and then those around you and and let it kind of permeate through the community we need to correct our own understanding I feel that we do need to all Muslims need to be proactively engaged in learning because sometimes people people are saying things which they don't understand and this

misunderstanding it further exacerbates this situation Sometimes some people they say things because they think they're meant to say them but in Islam there's actually more scope but because they're unaware of that scope they feel that they have to um you know they feel they have no choice but to say a particular thing and therefore it warrants or it kind of triggers a reaction and and it goes back and forth and back and forth and so I feel that we do need to be proactively involved in learning learning will help eradicate a lot of J I do feel that the a also need to keep

links with it is necessary that we keep links with our with our the whether it's the mid or the who are like the lifeline of those what should be the community now I I mean that in my understanding that that would be uh a way to deal with this also I I do I'd like to say I think sometimes people even have the right Concepts Muslims they have the right ideas they they're even involved in a certain amount of

learning but unfortunately they don't express the right words so we also as a community need to work work on improving our communication as well that you will find that that articulation and just the form of expression is key in getting a message across so sometimes people are right but it's the way they're saying it that it's misinterpreted so that's um that would be Allah but that would be some some thoughts the projects I'm currently

involved in um I've been involved in teaching for quite a while teaching f um which is really just f is Islam it's understanding right from the very five pillars of Islam right through to how to practice Islam throughout your transactions whether it's buying selling trading loans whether it's going to be things like marriages divorces and all sorts so inheritance the whole thing is called f now I've been involved in teaching for sever for years now I mean I've uh my online courses I've been teaching things like the

of which is a classical text it is uh considered one of the earliest summary texts that appeared in the school of Medina by IBN AB Z who was called young Malik uh who was from modern day uh Tunis and it's so so that's something I've been involved in I've taught of the courses along the way I've taught some brief shorter texts here in Birmingham uh things like the ashma which are available online now I think that was just six lessons or something we completed that text in that's available I concluded um the foundations of Islam by K Yad once again a an amazing

classical scholar classical in that sense I mean from almost 900 years ago from Muslim Spain I've always I've had a push on TR you know I've always tried to keep this push on connecting with the of alalo part that they were all upon the school of Medina which is totally awesome but I mean beyond that that they were the first major they weren't just a foothold they were the Islamic civilization that flourished and prospered within or on European soil for you know for 7 to 800 years now that is a huge time so we can learn a lot from

them they coexisted more often than not with their non-muslim counterparts and not just coexisted they don't just survived they thrived when they had the opportunity so there's a lot to learn from them so K Yad is one of the legends from alandus uh he has a book known as the foundations of Islam where he speaks of the Five Pillars and how to get about and understand the Five Pillars I mean we um thoroughly went through that which is also available now the recordings the audio recordings for that concluded that course in addition to that we I was involved in a S type of project where we

taught s for a short span of time it covered I think something uh a good few months and um I think it was summed up in about 10 11 lessons and that's also available so these are some of the projects that have concluded the the online f is still going on um I am looking to begin teaching inshallah I was thinking um of going through some basic guidelines to understand how the categorization of Hadith works and then uh there's a very interesting fascinating poem uh which I I do like

it's known as and it was written byi an andeli scholar once again you see these people they they what I don't know they took Islam to to a height or a representation that was seldom met elsewhere that they were just amazing at what they did so what he has as well in is a short poem which is apparently a love poem it's a romantic poem but really all the words he's used are the words

of so to study that is something which inshallah I want to also in in the coming weeks inshallah get involved in that so he he begins it's known as so he says that my and it's become known as that my love is true but is a word for sah meaning aah so things like this to to so I want to set that up and there's a few other uh projects like that as well teaching things that I'm trying to get involved in some things to do with the m of IM Malik uh we did have

a retreat uh we were part of not so long ago earlier on this year and inshallah we're looking to set up a retreat of Our Own in I know a lot of the people were really keen and excited so maybe a few months down the road to have a retreat for a weekend where we could go over some of these things and you know what is the school of Medina all about and why is it crucial for within the west and why what would it lend because I do believe it would lend a an angle it would let lend some type of light to the dean that would afford great

com comfortability almost for people to embrace the Deen themselves and I'm talking about Muslims as well Muslims mainly that that they that they that the dean would become for them a way of life and I think for that like a something that would flow with their daily lives and for that to happen I think the the understanding or or the principles of the school of Medina have to be incorporated along the way but yeah so that's some of the the projects I've been involved in the next steps for myself are to remain involved in these type of projects that I've said to be uh teaching I am involved at times in

things like some counseling and stuff like this and to to you know to to kind of stay I suppose within that but I would also like to say that I would like to also get somehow involved in doing something even if it's a little something but within prisons uh having spent you know a short amount of time there good few weeks that we did I feel that it showed me that there's so many people in there that are unfortunately just abandoned by Society because they they

seem to have been brushed as just criminals and therefore nobody's interested in offering any assistance in doing something and even if it's on a small scale a voluntary scale or whatever is but I would like to and I'd also like to get ideas on what to do um so I've got a few thoughts a few ideas going on but I'd like to get involved in doing something I know that the Americans have got a good few projects going on uh things like prism blues and stuff like that's something I'd like to learn a bit about maybe we can benefit from some of those programs be but get something going here so that's really um the the plans for the future there

anything else interesting inshallah people can always reach out to me I am involved in um a few um what is it International there was some International upcoming projects there were meant to be some in Germany I'm still not too sure about obviously due to my release there's some restrictions on my travel for a few weeks and so I'm not sure how that's going to work out but we we had some type of projects coming up and so if people are interested in you know they've got ideas they want to get involved in something or they want us to get involved in something inshallah reach out I mean if it's possible of course absolutely it be a pleasure be it