Umayyad, Abbasid and Zubayrid politics behind the recording of history

thing. So he said, "I started thinking about this and and I thought that look actually I can think of reasons why people would make it up and and this is what initi this this moment of epiphany is what led him to then dig deeper and research profoundly this topic.

But there were several reasons and he he started to just think about it and it's very similar because when we had our conversation a lot of our findings I mean my my theories on all this stuff were very similar to what he later on arrived at but obviously from a non-Muslim perspective but this whole political thing because I I had said as well that look if you think about it right that there Is this uh you see history has to be chosen and

you have to remember that people are in the you had Bunny Umeya and then you had B Abbas and most history gets written down in the Abbisid era. Now there were just two main versions of history. Who do you take the Omeayad one or the Abbisid one? And the abbisid is current and you can't really choose the because you'd end up getting persecuted and during the first century and and so much of Islam that is when they they stop in 131 Hery now nobody's writing history up until then.

So the problem here is what about people who weren't happy like the mainstream Sunnis? You have to understand mainstream Sunni was not really Abisidin inclined. Now they were okay with Abbisids but they weren't really you have to remember look the Abbisids were Shia.

Don't forget this in their origin they were Shia. They later on, you know, give give the boot to the Shia and become kind of independent and attach themselves to Sunnis and then become kind of like first of all pseudo Sunnis and then just Sunnis later on. But initially the Abbasid movement rose like when it rose from and to overthrow Bunny, it was a Shia movement.

It was not a Sunni movement. So they and they were very clear about about the and about and about all of these. They weren't for they weren't like the mainstream Muslims. They they were the Shia Muslims. But the only thing is because they overtook and you see it comes to when it comes to the crunch who overtakes first.

So as it happens the people who overtook first because these were bunny hashim. here all the the main clans of Hashim. So which is the prophet's clan but with them you see as you come down they're all part of bunny hashim but then they're like from the prophet his uncles and their sons and so on and obviously the prophet's uh offspring via Ali but then you've also got Abbas who's the uncle of the prophet and Abbas and his offspring and and so on and so you've got all of the these are all part of the Shia movement but it's the Abbasids

who make it first. So when they sees the throne, they think, "Well, actually, you know what? I kind of like this throne." [laughter] So they were like, "You know what? Actually, [laughter] it's like I could get used to this." And then they're like, "Well, who's at the door?" The Sorry, sorry, who gone?

Who? [laughter] Aborn. It's one of those. Sorry. Who? Who are you again? So, so what happened is they kept it for themselves. Now, when they kept it for themselves, who are their number one threat? Their number one threat are the aloh, the fatim, the the children, the offspring who are part of the same Shia thing.

But those who come through Fatima and Ali, why are they a major threat to them? Because even though you see those who are closest to you, they make the worst enemies. So this is the problem. They were one and these guys did a power grab and they're in control. So the first the biggest threat is not Bunny Umeya who you overthrew. They're the secondary threat.

The first threat is the sidekick that you just overthrew because he in this case the Fatimin had a more they had a greater claim to the throne because remember they they're saying we're the offspring of the prophet and you're the offspring of the uncle of the prophet. So even though you're related but we're closer still.

So this is why the Abbisids then turn to persecute them [laughter] in drama. Yeah. It's like proper saga going on. So they turn and you know uh what's the what's that poem? Yeah.

Yeah. What's it that you see that when you are I think that's it. But when you're betrayed or you suffer from the hands of those who are close to you, that is worse than being chopped up by you know this sharp super sharp sword.

So the point is that this now when the Abbisids become Sunni [snorts] at this point history starts getting documented. So historians who should they side with? This is the this is an important question. Do you go if you promote bunny omea version the main you know the earlier version of Islam then these guys are going to be upset.

If you quote their version their version is really like the Shia version but except it's now moving away from the Shia. But there was another narrative you see and that narrative was the Zuberid narrative because there was also power in the house of Zubered. He had ruled uh Abdullahbn Zuber had ruled for a substantial amount of time at and at a particular point considered to be the main ruler of the Islamic world.

So and he is you know the the the nephew if you like of of Aisha and so and he's like from the mainstream Sunni thing. So this was also a perspective. So it became important as well for people that were part of this Zuber thought to always promote Aisha because Aisha extends legitimacy to the Zuber perspective because she is their aunt.

It is usually her nephew who is always learning from her and teaching. And Urwa is the father of who? to Hisham and Hisham then he is the one who transmits all these hadith and it's interesting that even some of the Abbisids as they become Sunni if you like it may have been in their interest to push this Zubid as well because the other because their own historical angle would have been Shia which they distanced themselves from and the earlier Sunni version would have

been omead and they don't want to be part of that. So this Zubered thing may have been a a bridge and hence uh Mansour I believe it was Mansour he commisss Hisham and gives him a very generous grant and he brings him to uh uh brings him to Baghdad I believe or brings him back to Iraq and and he comes on three occasions but he's commissioned and even when Hisham passes is it when I believe when Hisham passes away, the caiff uh comes to pray for him.

And so there there seems to be this very clear bond between Hisham and the caiff. So anyway, I'm I'm the reason I I'm getting distracted is to show that yes, it is true that line of reasoning as some orientalists have said is is is a good point. But it is also true if you think deeper, you will find many motives for some of these a hadith to have been fabricated.