Recordings › Shaykh Omar Baloch | Cynicism, Consumerism & the Catch 22 of Riba | Mindtrap with Mufti #30 · 10 Jul 2020 › Segment 29 of 38
Is investing as a partner better than lending at interest?
muftis ribaa sood usury jahannam jahanam jahannumLender or partner? Collateral loans versus profit-sharing investment
Watch this part
Open on YouTube at 1:50:43The player starts at 1:50:43, the beginning of this part.
This segment1:50:43 to 1:55:10 · 4 min 27 sGeneral teaching
What this part covers
machinesummary, machine-writtenMufti Abu Layth accepts partnership as a better model but says lending and investing both run on greed; the guest calls today's system worse than riba.
In more detail
The guest compares two banks: one asks only for collateral and ignores the borrower's business plan, while the other offers to become a partner, studies the plan, and invests more and adds a consultant because it believes in the business. Mufti Abu Layth says both tap into the same source, greed, as a motivating factor, the difference being that the investor shares the risk while the creditor carries none. The guest asks why a lender who trusts the borrower would ask back only thirteen thousand rather than become a partner. Mufti says he accepts partnership is a better way, but that the question was whether riba is still what it was historically understood to be. The guest says the present system, if it is not riba, is worse than riba.
- Guest speech overlaps this segment
Position stated
Waiting for the speaker checkA guest speaks in this segment and the captions do not say who said what. The view found here is held back until the speaker-separated transcript confirms the words are his, or the channel verifies it. The transcript and recording are published in full.
Kind: general teaching Speakers: host and guest; guest speech is labelled and excluded from positionsTranscript
machine1:50:43 to 1:55:10 · click a time to seek · dotted terms open the glossary
A guest speaks in this segment. Guest speech is labelled and is excluded from the positions layer.
same way you see a bank is even though a bank is technically especially with it being digitized with they're giving out literally I mean it's not actual things they're necessarily giving out but it's allowing that money to regenerate an entire society even though that fund may have just mean one amount now let's say you come to me now and say in between actually the expenses have gone up you know I actually need another million now he's put that million with me I've given you that same million back which really you know okay you've got two million you've given him that million it's managed to set up an entire industry almost here this is a very low level
example but it's its example it's things like this that have allowed modern societies to prosper brother can I give you an alternative initial to two let's say I go to a bank and I go to two different people no one is with this system and one is with another system what's a nice assistant the river system right so let's just say the river system okay let's just suppose it's not robust it will say loan loan based system okay profit is known based okay I go to them and the first thing they'll say to me just please listen to what I'm about to
say and then chose absolutely I go to them and they say okay we'll give you a loan what's your collateral I said you know what I have my wife's properties what did you like it take her damn thing take her away and because they got their collateral they're not interested in my business plan they're not interested in if I'm actually my idea is good if it's worth it for them I go to another business and there I could say look I need a million dollars they don't ask me for collateral they're like can we
become your partners in this business show us your business plan hmm and I say okay fine uh here's my business plan I plan to do this did they look at my business plan they're like you know this business plan was written by my wife let's say right alright there you go people so you know they look at my wife's business plan and they're like wow this is amazing you know we we really like to you know be part of this you know in fact we like your business plan so much we think this is gonna really work we're gonna we're gonna put a special business consultant for you and we're gonna invest double
how about that okay now yeah exactly they see the geniusness of this business plan in its potential right so now we're you're telling me that I I'm now comparing this with somebody gives ten thousand says can you give me thirteen thousand back if that person's really smart he'll be like okay you want ten thousand for business can you tell me what this business is about you know what I'll be your partner and he'll if he sure the issue is this though ship but the issue is this ultimately both of these things are tapping into the same source which is
greed yeah it's a motivating factor for human beings now you're saying well on one hand the investor as opposed to loaning the creditor he's he feels that look actually you know what I'll just buy into the business it seems more worth it long term has no risk and the other side is all the risk the businessman has all the risk the bank has no risk yep the question is okay okay I understand what you're saying but there ought to be fair I can say to him give me $13,000 back fine but
the risk is all but if I'm actually doing it properly I would say okay what's the collateral no but you wouldn't have a collateral with like small these kind of non secured loans but the point would be that super hot right so far okay yeah right so you would if if you know that it's not a super high then what then you think that this person is intelligent and not stupid and knows what they're doing then why are you gonna ask back only for thirteen thousand why not become a business partner but the point here was more so not about I look I accept this
is now just saying this is a better way I accept the point was why was Rick like is rebar still the way it is understood historically because I would say that you see that kind of greed of human society to some extent isn't necessary however you define it this system that we have now if it's not ribah it's worse than River because the way you're gonna define it as what it was just personal loans giving people giving to each other and that was the problem if that was a problem this is a bigger problem no because there's a difference between loan shark Rhee and between what are
just standard loans so I so Stan it depends on the exactly depends on the or not yes sure but critic but but but but but but but but you see when you operate with credit cards when you operate with these things you operate within a greater framework that as many safety minutes so you have like even with credit cards you could go on debt management programs you can go on insolvency programs you can go on you see the system I'm not saying it's necessarily I'm not trying to justify this kind of banking thing greed but what I'm trying to say is it's not loan shark reaiize a-- you know you've got to
Paragraphs overlapping 1:50:43 to 1:55:10. Full text on the recording page.
Cite this segment
Stable id, transcript version and tier are part of the citation. Every change to a transcript is logged.Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment 2020-07-10-S29, auto-transcribed, may contain errors. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/wce73zqci_i/s/29/ (accessed 1 November 2026)
- APA 7
Mufti Abu Layth. (2020, July 10). Is investing as a partner better than lending at interest? [Video, segment 2020-07-10-S29, auto-transcribed, may contain errors]. Mufti Abu Layth Archive. Retrieved November 1, 2026, from https://muftiabulayth.org/r/wce73zqci_i/s/29/
- Chicago author-date
Mufti Abu Layth. 2020. "Is investing as a partner better than lending at interest?" Video, segment 2020-07-10-S29, auto-transcribed, may contain errors. Mufti Abu Layth Archive. Recorded July 10, 2020. Accessed November 1, 2026. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/wce73zqci_i/s/29/
- BibTeX
@misc{abulayth-2020-07-10-S29, author = {Mufti Abu Layth}, title = {{Is investing as a partner better than lending at interest?}}, year = {2020}, month = {7}, date = {2020-07-10}, howpublished = {\url{https://muftiabulayth.org/r/wce73zqci_i/s/29/}}, url = {https://muftiabulayth.org/r/wce73zqci_i/s/29/}, organization = {Mufti Abu Layth Archive}, urldate = {2026-11-01}, note = {Segment 2020-07-10-S29, auto-transcribed, may contain errors} }
Something wrong here?
Tell us what is wrong and it will be checked against the recording. Nothing changes until a person has reviewed it.
Sending a note needs JavaScript, which is off or unavailable in this browser. Nothing has been sent.
No name, email address or account is asked for or stored, and the inbox does not store your IP address. For rate limiting it keeps an unreadable fingerprint of your connection for 48 hours, and our database provider's own logs record connections as every website's do. Only your note, its kind, the page and the moment in the recording are kept, for review.