Self-sabotage, Struggles & Divine Love | Meetup - Mufti Abu Layth

As-salamu alaykum. Yeah, Jama'ah. Bismillah, let me just check. All right, Bismillah. In alhamdulillah wa kafa wa salatu wa salam ala rasulihil Mustafa wa ala ibadihilladhina irtada wa man bihudahum ihtada wa biathari ahlil Madina iqtada wa ba'd.

As-salam Allahi ala al-qawm ahlan wa sahlan bikum wa marhaban ya Jama'ah. All right, let me just just share that I've gone live. I suppose you guys can share the the love equally. Let me just Uh, where is this gone?

Ya salam. Um Uh, it's easier to just do it from here now. >> [laughter] >> All right, so one momentito. All right, let me just Mhm. All

right, okay. Bismillah. So what is happening? Me I wanted to do a live stream. You know, it's I thought I'd connect with you folks, blessed folks.

You know. As uh Harib says that bu-e-gul nal-e-dil dud-e-chirag-e-mehfil. So, see these three that he's bringing our attention to. That bu-e-gul, the fragrance of a flower.

Nal-e-dil, the cry of a heart. The kind of by cry, yeah, I guess uh nal is like a Like yeah, like the the scream or the cry out crying out of a heart. Dud Dud is a Farsi word.

Persian, which means smoke. So So, he says uh dud-e-chirag-e-mehfil. That the smoke of the chirag, the lamp of the mehfil. So, he's bringing our attention to these three things. Jo bhi teri bazm se nikla so pareshan nikla.

Hi, hi, hi, hi. Whosoever left your gathering, your you know, the mehfil, the bazm. Bazm in >> [laughter] >> I know this in English, bosom. It's It's not that bosom. This is bazm from the which is also, I guess, a Farsi kind of word meaning the mehfil, the the kind of gathering. Mehfil in essence uh is an Arabic word.

So the company, the dialectic, the blessed suhba is the more accurate Arabic word. But um so what he's saying is whosoever leaves your gathering so pareshan nikla. Now, there's a play on words because in Farsi, pareshan can mean perplexed worrying or worried can be worried, but can be perplexed.

But it can also mean muntashir, something that spreads out dissipates. And if you think about it, now go back to these three. The fragrance of a flower dissipates. It just So, bu-e-gul nal-e-dil, that the crying out of a heart one could say into the electromagnetic sphere, it just dissipates.

Dud-e-chirag-e-mehfil, the smoke of the gathering. Jo bhi teri bazm se nikla that what And this jo now could refer to an inanimate object as well all of a sudden. That whatsoever First, we were understanding whosoever, but now whatsoever left your suhba, left your gathering so pareshan nikla.

It left in a state of being scattered. Hi, You see the the legends, huh? Poetry. Baqiya, um Mhm. Because No. What Uh, leave that joke.

All right, so what is going on? Hi, hi, hi. IMG. What is going on? You know, sometimes >> [laughter] >> How come you're always Yeah, you know, it's my I think if I'm to face my kind of uh some of the the s- personality struggles of my life

I was speaking earlier about this today as well is ADHD. My timing is always chaos. Like there's never I positively envy people. I mean, in a nice way, not in a malicious, malignant way. But in a nice way.

People that have that in their lives just And for some reason there's um I really understood it when um Who's What's the um There's that stand-up Is he South African comedian?

He looks a bit mixed race and Is it Trevor or Ah, damn, his name slipped my mind. Very famous. So, he's There's this clip of his where he's speaking about ADHD. And he mentions that he says that for ADHD people, there's just you know, when it comes to time >> [laughter] >> this world the systems in this world aren't made with ADHD people in mind.

Cuz he says that they only have two sets of time running in their mind. And that is now and not now. And that is so true. That is just so true. That's been my like a whole uh existence has been like that.

Like it's just now and not now. So, then it's just uh trying to arrive at >> [laughter] >> Ya Allah. So, what's been preoccupying your precious thoughts, people? Trevor Noah, that's it. Trevor Noah.

Right, yeah. What interesting discussions, themes the world scenario still I mean, the world is Ya salam. You know, I just don't We have to just have a state of tawakkul. Tawakkul an ala Allah.

Allah will take it to where it has to go. That's the only You know, we just can't with positivity, of course. So, what else? I thought I'd share the link. I know last time I never got uh many people weren't they didn't manage to really join.

And I did say I'll So, I'm going to share the link a little earlier today. There you go. What else has been going on? This Yeah, you know, there's um you know the intriguing news. Uh there's been a whole like a raid on the like Qadiani Institute in the UK.

Um I don't know if you guys have seen that. There's these clips going around everywhere. Um Yeah, and there's a store of these people everywhere wearing beanies. I think that's the new thing they're going down with. I mean, they're they're not going down for that, but they they're still >> [laughter] >> not going down for wearing a beanie, but uh that's the style, I think.

Isn't their new I forgot the guy's name. Is it Abdul Hashim or something? Is their new leader. Or is this this might be a sect within a sect. But yeah. So yeah, and some allegations of sexual abuse and you know, cults are known like that that kind of stuff is almost always found in um

right in cults. It's almost always it's inescapable. One could say that just because of the very dark nature and the traits that cults bring out in people. And what they do is they lock off the voice of reason.

So yeah, you that that guy was a uh professional actor. Right, so yeah, and the nature of cults is they disengage the prefrontal cortex. And being in that group does that.

And you you kind of have this herd think. This group. You just follow the herd. Um and it takes a charismatic. Usually people like that person, the leader of them currently, I've not watched much of him, but what one two clips I saw seemed very charismatic.

And that's the thing you will get a kind of a charm to some of these uh leaders. But yeah. Anything that calls you to stop using your voice of reason is always going to that should have alarm bells ringing.

Cuz I get it. One is in any This is This is another problem with institutions that with anything there will be some level of um just to fall in line will be necessary, I guess, as part of the institutional makeup. But to completely where you are ever called by any cult to completely avoid the voice of reason, that should be alarm bells.

Yeah. Right, so Yeah, when you're in a locked uh environment, that's what it does, somebody said. Take a look at a question.

Uh I can't see the question. Uh I can't see a question here. Right, so hmm I can't see it. So Right, can you explain why it's often women who get um engulfed into cults?

Hmm. That's an interesting one. I think men do as well. I think men do get into cults as well. It's not just women, but maybe in the sense that there's a sense of hope, a sense of leadership that they're looking for.

Um you get a lot of devoted men as well. If you just think about um think about sometimes the extremes of even like um Barelvi culture that goes to such extremes that you know, nobody's allowed to critique the Pir Sahib or the Sheikh or the it's usually in a lot of those cases men.

Um that get very obsessed and Yeah, but you're right. There are in some movements what possibly a lot of women drawn to it. Maybe not so much in the Trying to think of the Islamic ones, I'm not so sure. It might be like 50/50 in the Islamic ones. Maybe in the non-Islamic world, it's probably more women um getting drawn to stuff like I think in the Muslim world, I'm not so sure if it's dominated by a female following, a um

female acolytes is the word. Rather acolytes. So yeah, hmm. You know, speaking of uh female psychology, I'll tell you something interesting. I The YouTube algorithm, yeah. It had There were some videos on my feed and I ended up watching some.

And I suppose I do watch a few I'm I'm very much into Lacanian psychoanalysis. And then some of the um some of the uh analysts who are women speak on women's rights or maybe women's rights isn't the right word. The women the female perspective and female psychology.

And um like uh Alenka Zupančič and and there seems to be this whole Slovenian sub-school of Lacan emerging. But in any case, YouTube brought to me some other and there was this um she's a PhD, I believe doctor. I think she's Australian called um uh that what's her name?

Dr. Danny I think Sulikowski, something like this. Sulikowski or um but she has these videos and then she has these podcasts. So I ended up watching one or two. And it's about the female psychology that is at play.

It's very fascinating. It was a very dark dissection of what takes place at sometimes even a subconscious level. So she highlights that the way um So her views, you can imagine, will be controversial, of course, but So she's highlighting that from an evolutionary perspective, the way men are hardwired to spread the seed almost, you know.

So that's the male psychology that female competition is more so interest that it's more intersex as opposed to intersex. So the female, she highlights, is competing against females as opposed to competing against males.

Because keeping in mind that you see women essentially are the gatekeepers of sex in that sense. Because if it's just up to men, then, you know, they'd be at it everywhere. So she highlights that the competition for women is therefore not compete about I mean, you could say maybe some of it is about competing with some men, but generally it's not.

It's about competing against other women. So and from an evolutionary perspective, it's similar to like for the male, it's about offspring or spreading the seed. And from her perspective or that for women, it's the same thing. It's about having offspring.

Now, what's different from the female perspective, she highlights, is that this could be successfully done in two ways. One is that you just go on and have children, which obvious, but the other is you inhibit and prevent other people from having children and thereby succeed with your children.

And [snorts] this is something exclusive to women. Men can't really do that. So and men don't really uh engage in that psychology because it's useless. So man So think of She gives this analogy that you see for men, it's like a a single sprint. Like they're trying to race that who can get to let's say the you know, to to fertilize an egg first.

Almost in that case that men are racing and there's other men in the competition, but each person is focused on trying to win the race. But she said for women, it's there is that as well, but it's more about whilst they're running, can they trip other women? And you know, elbow and trip and because if they can do that, they can also win. So winning is not just about being the fastest.

It's also about inhibition. Like uh reproductive uh inhibitory success that you you disallow, you inhibit other women from reproducing, thereby you succeed in reproducing. So this was quite fascinating cuz this concept I and she goes through the data and she gives uh and it's very and it shows that women will sometimes uh not sometimes, she argues that often engage in certain

tactics that So as an example, she highlights there's been studies that um >> [clears throat] >> that men overall will admire longer hair in women. Uh relatively long hair that almost across the board, almost that it is seen as a more desirable sexual trait on if we call it a trait, characteristic.

But studies show she highlights that when women are advising other women to cut their hair, they almost always advise them to go shorter than what they themselves would truly like. Now, this studies, she argues that there's some women that will go for like a bob cut or even like a pixie cut and go almost like men's hairstyles, like go right down like a cut fade.

Whereby they sabotage their own success to an extent where they know like whether it's conscious or subconscious that they can still pull it off. But by making it into a fashion, other women won't be able to pull it off and thereby lose out on relationships.

But this woman, for example, let's say she's a celebrity or she's some She will still be able to pull it off. Even though it will be worse off, but the trade-off is worth it. Do you see like this So there's a that there is a sabotage psyche at play. She This this uh Her name is Somebody will have to check the surname.

I think a Dr. Danielle Solakowski, something like that. So I was watching these lectures and she's highlighting a lot of uh data around this that where people will So for example, this whole culture of not having children and promoting a hardline >> [clears throat] >> kind of feminism about >> [clears throat] >> uh let's go to, you know, focus only on careers, do this, do that.

And she highlights that now we have enough years of study to show that women overall who've done that and lost out on having children are almost always >> [cough] [clears throat] >> are almost always um quite depressed at a later stage. And women who have you know, tied the tubes or they've or just focused on career that this will be pushed by women almost under the guise of well, and they'll own it that look, this is being done because we're liberating women and liberating them from marriages or

liberating them from relationships and liberating them from uh being subjugated to men and the patriarchy and they need to be working and careers and But by doing so, by promoting this, the women promoting it are This is reproductive inhibitory success. Like they are removing these other women from reproducing, from that race and thereby winning themselves.

So it's a it's a wild um um That's it. Uh Danielle Solakowski. Um That's it. Yeah, shukran. And it's very fascinating this whole um the research she was presenting and showing how sometimes it may be done subconsciously and other times it may be done consciously that there people are promoting this.

That you know, this hyped-up red flag culture, for example, that oh well, the guy's a red flag, the guy's a red flag. I'm just looking out for other girls. I'm just looking out for You see what it's doing sub at a subconscious level is sabotaging and removing other women from that and girls from that race of successfully reproducing and thereby allowing these women to win.

That it's actually a very Darwinian um You know, this kind of survival of the fittest, Machiavellian almost strategy. So she Many of her podcasts are on this and I found that very fascinating. Um that people So for example, also divorce, that women who are divorced will more likely always pull other women in that direction.

Um that always promoting that. So as to eliminate them successfully from that race as well of uh you know, reproducing. And and that's interesting because this power the Quran alludes to it.

Uh or actually highlights it in a verse where Allah is speaking about a different situation, speaking of the hereafter. Allah says, "Wala yanfa'akumul yawma idh dhalamtum And today it will not benefit you if you were oppressive. Annakum fil adhabi mushtarikun." That you today are in this together.

So hear this again. Allah is saying that today, as in in the afterlife, it will not avail you. Meaning prior to today, you did feel availed by this. You did feel some benefit by this. But today it will be of no avail to you. That that you are in this together.

That in the dunya, you did want people to be in the same boat as you be because you felt some comfort from that. And the Malikiya, the school of Medina used that as an evidence as a tool to in the judicial process to remove um or disallow certain witness testimonies.

So let's say a person was testifying against a thief, but he has a criminal record of theft. So in the Maliki madhhab, you're not allowed to testify against a crime that you had been um convicted for because of this verse. "Wala yanfa'akumul yawma idh dhalamtum annakum fil adhabi mushtarikun." That today it will not that you are in this together.

The Malikiya said that there is an argument to be made that people could be falsely incriminating others just so they >> [laughter] >> feel I'm not in this alone. It's like you are I'll be a jinn. >> [laughter] >> Khair. Um I thought that that's a fascinating discussion nevertheless.

I thought I'd share that about Dr. Danielle Solakowski. And yeah. Uh this whole thing, I think it's worth exploring and understanding that this this culture and in many ways the tradition, our tradition, and I mean by that the Muslim the Islamic the Muslim as well, the wisdoms it had sometimes that are looked down upon today by people because not seen as modern.

>> [snorts] >> Now we can see some wisdoms shining through. Right, I've had some people join. I'll share the link link again. Do turn on your cameras and mics. And as you do that, you should clear and >> [clears throat] >> show up here. And then I can bring you on. Okay?

Right, I've shared the link. All right, so tradition is peer pressure from the dead. I like that. I like that. Uh right, people I see some people coming through. Switch on your mics.

Switch on your cameras. Let's um you'll kind of show up here then. Let's see. And I've shared the link again. Mhm. What is this? Is that All right, let me see somebody. Is that Veit Bajrami?

Uh salaam alaikum. Alaikum salaam, Mufti. How are you doing? Can you hear me? I can't You can barely see me. I know, but >> Is that like a just a cigarette we can see? I see not really.

cigarette Not smoking at the moment, no. Okay, I don't know what I'm seeing. I'm seeing like a flame or something or it looks like that or is it a distant light? Yeah, it looks it looks a bit like I thought it was a thing. I thought I should have taken out a cigar if that was the case. If >> [laughter] >> All right, well Veit Can you can you see can you see me better now?

>> better. Alhamdulilahi. That's better. See, let's put some noor to it. Allah Allah. Where are you joining us from, Veit? All right. Uh from the Balkans. I'm joining you from the Balkans. From the blessed Balkans. Allahu Akbar. From the blessed Balkans Balkans from uh the home of the Hanafi fiqh.

Allahu Akbar. And we share a lot in common. So Allah keep you blessed. Yeah, what's what's share some thoughts? What's on your mind today, Veit? Not much say, I just wanted to you know, say give you salaam.

And Allah keep you blessed. Well, thank you. You too. May Allah keep you blessed. Uh not a lot. And [snorts] tell you the truth, uh there's not much you can say after you turn 50. And uh It's not that like you know it all at all, you know. >> Life's just beginning, Veit. That's what it is.

You think so? I hope so. I mean I mean, yeah. >> And I and I wanted to thank you. I wanted to thank you for all these uh years uh that you've been on social media. And I've I've learned a lot from you. You know, so I'm I'm really thankful. I'm really thankful and especially that you are continuing with the uh blessed mission.

Allah bless you. Shukran. I appreciate that. I appreciate you. >> Really, I'm in the beginning to tell the truth, I was not I was uh one of those negative people about you. But then with the phone of time and uh with learning and uh seeing how things are in in reality, I learned a lot and I am very grateful for everything that you do.

>> Allah. Allah bless you and I mean I mean I mean it you know it is in many ways likewise. I mean shukran. You know, in many ways that is that is life, isn't it? The whole like that is the the description of [clears throat] life. Like we the to's and fro's, the swinging, the oscillating, the movement.

In in one way if we think about it, it is a it is like a pulse. It's a heartbeat. This that's what life I mean it actually is a heartbeat, but it life itself with a capital L is like a heartbeat as well. Like it's moving. Where and it's radiating, you know, it's radiating like it's amazing how the heart creates this magnetic field.

Um they say at least 3 to 5 ft all around us and and and this this is what it's doing as a metaphor in life as well. And we are just moving along and we see things, we learn things, we life unfolds. There's the famous um you know, there's a very famous uh artist, Japanese artist, Hokusai.

And he has the very famous iconic painting of the wave in front of Mount uh um Mount Fuji in the background. It's very famous. You've probably seen it. Maybe you're not familiar with the name, but you've probably seen the iconic. And you know, he came on to drawing that when he was 74, I believe.

And and that's in many ways when his life began for him. >> [laughter] >> So sometimes 74, I believe he was when he he drew out these I think they were a set of something like 30, but a little these sketches paintings of Mount um Fuji and and the iconic one that's become one of the most world-renowned paintings.

It's like of this wave and in the background you can see a small the mount. But he came to this in his 70s, you know, it's like wow, you know, this like life really is that journey and it's not like where it will start, nobody You know, it's in in some ways it's not like I mean in some ways we see it as naturally we look at things linear.

We see it as start and finish. Some ways, but especially because of the modern world we see things in a line. But some things are not so much about a finish. So for example I love the way Alan Watts explains that. Like as an example he gives music. Like a person would listen to a musical piece not in the sense to arrive at its finish.

There's no you know, and it's not because it's going to finish that they're not going to listen to it. Nobody says, "Oh, I'm not going to listen to that piece of music because it's going to finish." You know, that that it's and in some ways taking that as a pattern for life, I find it full of so much more life.

So I thought I'd just share that. Yeah. Thank you. I'm I'm uh I'm I'm looking at it the moment. I don't know if you can see that. I have it on my computer. >> Oh, yes, that's Yes, so that's one of them, but the other one if you type the wave Hokusai's wave, that's that that became the iconic. The So he So he did a set and that's one of the set he did.

I think he did near about 30 sketches and that's one of but the iconic one is this kind of blue wave with Mount Fuji in the background. It became like a world-renowned piece. And So if you if Yeah, if you type the I'm looking at Yeah, I'm looking at it. Yeah, so that's And he I believe I did that in his when he was probably 74 or in his 70s in any case.

So yeah, so life's only just beginning. Allahu Akbar. Uh It's interesting that you mentioned the the heart and how it functions and all that the waves that you mentioned and everything. Um and it's interesting to me cuz I'm kind of a heart patient myself.

And straight away you make start talking about the heart. And it's it's amazing. >> See, the souls the souls are connected. You see, they they know things. You know, like the Hadith says that that that was you know, before coming into this dunya, the souls had a connection. And that al-arwah junudum mujannadah.

And even when they come in this dunya, they have an affinity to those that they were somehow bonded with. And it's amazing that through the unconscious mind, look how And may Allah give you shifa, a complete shifa. >> Amen. [snorts] Amen. And long >> all all that uh that uh you know, having uh suffering all around the world.

Yeah, it is. >> Amen. Amen. I mean, there's sometimes, you know, with the amount of suffering going on Like sometimes what we I I say to people that almost in spite of it we as believers have to have a smile. That we have to Yeah.

almost in the face of everything going on that that is the that we allowed that uh that that gift from Allah in the face of people who that light bothers them. You know, that positivity will then because e- in spite of everything going on we smile. That There was a quote that against all odd against all odds, against all logic, we hope.

That that is you know, the the thing of the believer. That we we have to shine that light, inshallah. Right. Well, wait. Shukran. A very intriguing name, by the way, Wait. Right. Yeah, uh it's abbreviation.

It's a Wait. It's abbreviation of uh the name of the Arabic name into uh Bosnian or uh the Balkan languages over here, like Albanian and uh Bosnian. So, we say Wait. Uh so, that that's how it came to be from uh the original Wahid or Wahid. or Wahid or Abdul Wahid. Yes.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. So, shukran. See, we were all learning. I I love it. And it's that way, look, worldwide how we're connected. It's amazing, isn't it? Otherwise, so spread out and disparate, but yet we're united by this bond. Allahu Akbar. Yes, we are. Yeah, it is beautiful. So >> It's amazing. It's amazing.

Uh especially be- in the beginning, you know, when I I found out about you on YouTube and started watching your videos. Uh you know, in the beginning how you were like a little bit different, you know, more humorous and more animated and animated. I I loved it. I loved it from the start. Yeah, a bit more chaotic, yeah.

A lot more muscle, I think. Uh or have you lost it or do you still have it? Possibly. >> I think it's yeah, I think sometimes maybe I I dress a bit different as well. >> [laughter] >> So, we can see >> Yeah. So, I think maybe some of it is like I'll just cover it. >> [laughter] >> But yeah, no, I appreciate it. >> Yeah, but so uh the uh it's better that you're covering it cuz, you know, the evil eye can fall on you.

>> [gasps] >> The evil eye. But I have yeah, mind you, one of the things I did do as well in the last few years I >> You unmasked that, too. So, thank you for that, also. No, shukran. And I And this is in line with health, actually. I did turn to some form of dieting as well. Some form of it. And yeah, like in the last few years so I think yeah, like I completely cut out um breakfast altogether.

And I changed, modified certain kind of foods, and I And it's amazing, like now so often for so long and when I say so long as in these few years now, all some like it'll be almost the norm that I won't eat anything till like very, very late afternoon. Like sometimes I'll probably just first like just only eat at like 4:00 p.m.

or So, and it's become such a norm, and it's what I found was And that also helps in trimming the body as well. But I found that you know this that there is a myth of how dependent we think we are on food. Like we are undeniably going to be dependent on food, but maybe not to the extent that we think we are.

Like we because we're so used to I I used to always think that oh, you had to have the you know, breakfast is the most important meal of the day. I used to think like I used to always have like a big breakfast and um >> [clears throat] >> You know, we call it like a full English. We call it here. It's like the whole, you know, you've got the the sausages, halal sausages, you got the eggs, you got the beans, you've got you know, like toast, you got a We call it like a full English here.

Uh some rashes. [clears throat] Now the going from that to not having breakfast at all to realizing this is actually a lot a lot of it is a myth. That we've been brought up with this. And but when you stop for a little while, the body gets a a shock. So, like I remember for a few good few months, the body will lose weight drastically.

Like it starts losing like all of a sudden because you've gone from so many meals to But then I found that within something like half a year to a year it just readjusts with whatever it's getting. So, then it will just use the same amount and start building back the muscle. It will start Like it is truly a miracle in its healing process.

But yeah. Yeah, I did too I did the uh sardine diet. I don't know if you've heard of it. For a day. Okay, yeah. >> For a whole day. So, in the morning I had one can of sardines, uh another one in the afternoon. I did it three times during the day. And kind of people are, you know, talking about it on on YouTube.

You can have a lot of There's a lot of information about it. Yes. >> it's very spread uh especially in the western countries. This sardine diet now. Yeah. Okay, that does sound intriguing. I'll look into that. But you do uh wake up in the morning early. Of course. >> Me? Oh, yeah, yeah. So, I Yeah, so what I tend to do is I when I can I'll try and wait I'll try and hit the gym early as well before the school run.

So, I do like I drop my daughters off to school. So >> this wasn't a question cuz I I I've I've heard you say say that from earlier earlier videos. So, one of them when you explained that you do do your workouts in the morning. So, that's how I knew it wasn't a question. >> I tried uh sometimes like when I can't um uh depends. Like if I've missed the gym a couple of days, let's say, and then I might just go in the evening and just do it then.

Sometimes I've even gone late at night, like just before midnight. I've got like you know, like a 40 minutes in. But the best workouts are undeniably the morning ones because it sets your day up, you know, to to be productive. By By the time it comes to noon by about 1:00 I become so slow like in my productivity.

I'm like very I think those hours I I'm either very functional up until about noon 1:00 or then in the evening tonight. I'm not Like during the remaining like noon and late afternoon and I don't think I'm a very productive person. Like I don't think I can Like even if I'm doing things, I think I can slow down mentally and I I'm not that alert as I am at the other times.

Think it's the vampire gene. It's like uh Same here. Is it? Yeah, well, I totally understand that. I'm very nocturnal as well. So, I'll be like I can I can ironically get a lot done at night. If I was to be working at night, I can get a lot done. Um or in the early morning. But yeah, afternoon I I could take 4 hours doing something that I could normally do within just so many minutes.

But yeah. But shukran, Wait. It's been an absolute pleasure It was a pleasure talking to you, Mufti. Thank you. >> man. Allah keep you blessed. Shukran. >> Amen. Allah bless you. And give you a very super, super uh heart that beats not only the the blood it beats love into humanity. I mean so stay safe my brother I mean it's salaam alaikum.

Right people that was fight from the Balkans all right. The blessed Balkans and who do we have here? We have Aleph. Let me just share out that link again. Three what's this? I must be looking like Dracula.

>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Well, it's the vampiric genes you see that's what it is. Um Mufti Sahib what's this? To get us diabetic and three meals a day is the Rothschild invention. I I do believe that this three meals a day I used to think it was you see because we're brought up that way and so we're a product of our environment.

I used to think oh no it's health it's the way and that we all need that food and then you realize well actually you don't need that food and um it's putting the body into overdrive and having to break down this food and constantly the um I I I I don't know I think it's like just in the mornings up until noon and after just coffee tea whatever is more you know maybe sometimes if I've been really felt it I have had uh like maybe as a one-off some breakfast but

you know it works fine now. Allah be praised. Right I've got here Aleph. Uh salaam alaikum. Alaikum salaam warahmatullah wabarakatuh. Thank you for having me on. Uh it's a pleasure to meet you. I'm a big fan. Um I wrote about you in my in my book among other people.

In your book? Allahu Akbar. >> I wrote a little book a couple of years ago. Yeah. Um it's called Who Are the Quranists? Oh wow. So you know I probably wouldn't have written the book if it wasn't for brother Muhammad who you had I would say probably your top mind trap episode ever. Oh oh wow okay okay MFG Muhammad.

>> and and the low friction discussion content quality it was an excellent episode. Um >> Yes. And he's been he was very supportive of the book when I wrote it. Because not a lot of people have really done like an ethnography of the Quranism scene you know. So I when I got into Islam three years ago I was first it was like Sufis versus Wahhabis right?

And I was like the Sufis are the good ones. But then I'm like well the Sufis are are like neo-traditionalists and they still justify a lot of things. Where where where where were you from? States? States yeah American. >> Yeah I grew up in the States. I live in South America. Okay South America far or or I live I like it I like it. Yeah. Right I like that.

So okay so yeah tell us carry on you're saying about your book. So you wrote this a few years ago. Um so I got into Islam kind of with with Sufism. So I liked all the Sufi vibes and then I read the Quran and the Quran's a difficult read you know. And I was like having a little bit of trouble you know there's a lot of threats and so [snorts] it it doesn't go to get to the really good parts you really have to kind of let the Quran beat you into submission so to speak.

And then reading it is different because you're already compliant so you don't feel threatened so you pay more attention right? So the Quranists were very helpful for me to appreciate the Quran. Because they're the only real Muslim tafsir like dedicated people not the only ones but they're so they've got so they do it right? And a lot of Muslims don't really do tafsir they might tell you oh go read Ibn Kathir and Ibn Kathir's I don't mean I don't like his tafsir you know.

Um so I probably I wouldn't have written I would not have written the book if it wasn't for Muhammad's polemical viral maneuvering and some of the other people like like Baba Shwaib. So I read I I I heard about you through brother Khalid who has a channel called Quranic Islam which is a very good channel.

And I think you should check that out and maybe even you >> I think I do I think I do know. Yeah I think I do know uh brother Khalid from a few years ago from Facebook. This is the time so this would be probably pre-COVID kind of time. So yeah maybe something like maybe actually something like I'm assuming because I've not been active active like physically active on Facebook probably since about 2019 2020 so this must be about 2018 if

not that kind of time uh I'm thinking. But there was a guy brother Khalid he was Quran Quranist from what I understood. Yeah so I >> Quran centric so his he's more of a student of of Ibn Maliki who's in a Saudi prison for about his life and >> Oh yes okay okay okay okay okay yes Sheikh And he's actually a Hadith scholar par excellence and that's why he's in prison.

Yeah okay. >> and short of it. So >> interactions with brother Khalid from what I recall they were very pleasant very good interactions. Um so you're right >> he's a super super clock fellow great guy. More than I'm capable of as an American I'm culturally I have an o'clock limit in just in my speech I can't I can't get that smooth like Sufi kind of patient speech it's it's too much decibel it's difficult.

Maybe in the future inshallah. So so he mentioned Mufti Abu Layth I was like a Mufti I bet he's a really serious guy it sounds like I should Yeah like yeah. And so I watched all of your um your Monday nights which to me is like the Saturday Night Live of of modern Islam. I mean I think it was a great show. It was it was yeah.

It was I used to play video games and just listen to the episodes and it was like all right it's time for Mufti and the riffing and the the sort of the naughty humor the naughty naughty >> Yeah. It's very good. Of course you had to grow out of it right eventually. Yeah of course of course. It's a different phase in your life. But it was it was a it was a moment in time uh for sure. And so you got me into like there can be a critical maybe arguably revisionist or reformist Islam without going full Hadith rejection.

And so you you made me really appreciate the meaning of Sunnah. Um and its many interpretations but that there's something there right? Um so I'm grateful for that. No shukran I appreciate that. And you're right that and that has been a lot of the time my argument that within the tradition there is this there are there is this this kind of modus operandi where we don't have to be bound by and this is not just us this is the tradition that we differentiate between Hadith with Sunnah and the Sunnah is something

we very sacred and the Hadith is about documentation historical records and interpretation you know some person could have said something we accept some Hadith we don't accept others and that has been actually the way of the great people of Hadith like Imam Malik and and others and and I feel what's happened is in along the way especially or in recent times people have forgotten that that there was this middle ground and they've seen it as either you are 1000% almost like just

devoid like dissociated from the Hadith literature you are just you know you are fake fatwa we don't question we don't ask we have blinkers on or you must completely be like full Salafi swing. And you accept every Hadith because if the Hadith is valid that is my madhhab as Imam Shafi said.

Now you take that principle and anytime a person presents a Hadith you accept it. It's like oh if the Hadith is valid that's my madhhab. You know that's it. We've got the Hadith >> you a slightly spicy question before we talk a little more academically? Do you think Imam Shafi will go to paradise? To say that again.

Sorry I was just distracted by this of these still naughty but you have to join the Patreon. >> [laughter] >> Right so yeah so you sorry you were saying about Imam Shafi? Say that again. Yeah, how do you evaluate his Do you think he's something about prioritized, did you say? >> [laughter] >> Well, scope it a little bit more cuz who knows charity and stuff.

Of course, do you think that he but Imam Shafi is undeniable these are some of the great Imam of our tradition of Islam. They are absolutely outstanding. We believe all of them. Obviously, nobody says about who you know, nobody can definitively say about anybody's afterlife, but we hope all and all of these people are in you know, we believe or we feel that these will be in you know, the higher echelons of the Darajat inshallah

in the Akhira in the blessed Darajat and hopefully we can be somewhere as well in the in the Darajat of divine grace. But coming back to you see Imam Shafi's his kind of legacy. So, I feel that there is a kind a bit of a disconnect as well between his at least to some extent between his legacy and then what becomes the Madhhab and especially how the Salafiya have seen it.

So, there's almost three things to look at here. So, we've got one is Imam Shafi himself. Imam Shafi himself I do think not that that was a So, firstly, even though he's had these principles like if the Hadith is authentic if the Hadith is authentic it is my Madhhab.

He was still part of a kind of tradition. He wasn't So, there is between him and the Salafi kind of MO there is a gulf undeniably like a massive gulf between them. They're not one in the same thing even though they do use that principle of him often cited if the Hadith is authentic it is my Madhhab and Imam Shafi did say that.

But he was not in that way. He was about Fiqh. He was about principles. He was about questioning certain things. It's interesting in his Risala which is laying out really the legal theory the Usul. He He questions even the brings into question the the possibility of a reality of Ijma.

Now, even though he doesn't outright go and say there is no such thing as Ijma, but he brings it has this discussion on it and leaves more questions than answers. Now, I would have felt that in many ways he was opening this kind of door to say well, this is something that needs to be investigated if we are going to accept it at least on what things are we going to accept it.

Now, so So, like this there's several things, but you're right he does have more of this Hadith centric approach than the other traditions like the school of Medina by Imam Malik or Imam Abu Hanifa. >> Would you say he's sort of he's like a thoughtful [clears throat] thinker gesturing towards this consensus, but the runaway social effect which is reinforced by political your paid Ulema >> [clears throat] >> and Amir etc.

over the centuries where we had this mass taqlid, right? And this is how we formalize what is called the Islamic tradition which is You see I do right. So, in the not in any wrong way just straight to put this to to kind of lace it immediately or to kind of usher in what I'm about to say that in you know, I mean this not I mean this just in an analytic sense analytical sense.

I don't mean it what I'm about to say in any negative or anything that's disrespectful. Well, I will be there. I mean it from a perspective of analysis and almost retro diagnosis one could say just as I do feel that people like Imam Shafi were probably on the highly functioning end of the spectrum the autism spectrum that they were probably people who were these kind of savants that you get that

are these kind of genius people that have something like some level of almost Asperger's that they are but so you know, they they're seen as geniuses, but they are those kind of what we call today highly functioning autistic autism. So, obviously, you get like a low level autism where people just struggle, but then you get a high functioning autism like professors in universities and they So, I would think he like you know, when you read Imam Shafi's Fatawa his kind of

about his life. This is the impression that I would get looking at that that he isn't like Imam Malik was who was very also that he had this and this comes back to the left brain right brain what Dr. Ian McGilchrist speaks about that the if you think about it, he says that the the right brain it a simple way reductive way to look at it is it makes whole and the left brain isolates.

It breaks. It turns things into little packets. And whereas the right brain joins things that are otherwise disjointed. It's more about a holistic that he would have been highly in that sense which today actually is modern the Western world is also very left brain dominated dominant. He would have been like that as well.

When you hear his discussions on the Sharia, he does not really move towards or even acknowledge a holistic thread tying the whole Sharia together. He sees it as just isolated particles. He rules for the isolation. Like he sees each exception as a new rule.

He doesn't see it as an exception to the rule. And whereas Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifa If I can interject, I think that's a really good point. This kind of thinking if you look at So, like Khalid likes to talk about this and this is what I'm more into is is like in the Quran if you stay away from major sins your minor sins will be forgiven and the major sins are explicitly you know, if you do this you're going to go to hell and yada yada, right?

And there's like a dozen There's like a dozen and a half of them in the Quran, right? It's like consuming the wealth of the orphan, you know, killing a woman etc., right? Um but Ibn Abbas said that there are like 600 and he's narrated who have said that there are like 600 major sins. And the Imams of the the Zaidiyyah they say that it is for the knowledge of the Ahlul Bayt that we know what which are the major and minor sins, but because we don't want to encourage people to sin we're not going to tell you which ones they are.

So, it created this Islam that is so sprawling with like landmines. That instead of like when I was growing up Catholic it was like okay, the 10 Commandments. Don't do murder. Don't cheat on your wife. Don't lie. Don't steal and don't do like religious you know, don't shirk basically is in there. They just have a different language. So, you kind of stick to that and you're going to be okay. You keep going to church.

That's So, the Catholic thing is obviously on the other side it's a little there's a culture of being very it's a bit loose you see, right? But what I found in your appreciation of Imam Malik which is not necessarily how most Maliki jurists you know, think about it is is something not like a Catholic thing still still Islam. We're still getting up at 5:00 you know, 6:30 in the morning every day, but but something a bit more jolly like that, right?

Which is based on a more of a holistic Rahma you know, that pervades everything. And it really I encounter so many young people who are Well, first they're having problems trying to get married. So, that's like economic reasons and got to talk to women you know, learn how to do that. They don't know how to do that, but they have like religious OCD as well. So, they're paranoid and and they've maybe they've gotten involved in Salafi adjacent internet subcultures.

This is very popular with the with the youth and they go through like this phase you know, and also a lot of converts they might kind of go through a Salafi burnout cycle for their first That's >> so true. And then they have to rediscover an Islam that is that is actually merciful. In order to be comfortable staying Muslim. Um, and this is also the pathology I've noticed with a lot of people who who get involved with like progressive Islam subreddit or Quran you and subreddit is they've gone through like a deconversion reversion cycle re-educating themselves and becoming comfortable with some kind of Manhaj that is not you know, the uh

the Naughty naughty everything is the same. What about this Hadith? Cuz this is a motif in the Hadiths is such and such will be in hell. And if these are authentic it might be that that's just sort of a thing he used to say. It's not like the same level as the Quran saying it. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, and I firstly I love the uh the the kind of illustration mental illustration you gave of the landmine culture that, you know, where people are almost I don't I mean even tiptoeing wouldn't really work if you land on a

landmine, but still they they are so on edge on where they set foot. And this whole sin centric culture I I'm very like um averse to this. Like I don't like this at all. Um, I find it just results in OCD. It results in a very unhealthy bond with the faith.

And I get it that look I'm not going to say it may not that it doesn't work. I'm sure it does work and has helped many people in some ways. I don't deny that. So there's some people who for example they need authority in in their life. There's many people who need that. So they need to just constantly be told that you can't do things you can't do things.

Otherwise they're very reckless. They can't self-regulate. And I understand that. But that should still be to a commandment a divine commandment level of okay, this is for Allah. Not so much about like it becomes absorbed in the sin. So this culture of oh my God, we're not worth which we're not worthy, but I mean becoming obsessed with this we are very sinful.

We're very uh you know, we're horrible people. We're very uh worthless. We're very And this constant we're drenched in sin. To me it sounds very uh Catholic actually. It's like a highly catholicized version Yeah, exactly. Very Augustinian and it's all very uh drenched in that kind of uh monasticism almost and I feel that it it it causes a lot of harm a lot of harm even if it does some good.

I'm not saying for some people in case, you know, people might say well it's helped them. But I feel when I've spoken to people that the harm it's caused this this this is why this landmine uh kind of analogy that you gave is so apt and fitting because that's exactly how the Islam becomes.

It becomes like everything is I might step on a landmine. And oh my God, I might lose my faith. Oh my God, I might I'm going to go to hell. Stuff Allah stuff Allah. I'm going to go to hell. I'm going to go to hell. I'm going to go to hell. Look my thoughts are for a moment leave all of that alone. Allah you know, what what does you know, Allah says in the Quran my if Allah be happy come.

In Shakir to me you know, like what what does Allah gain from punishing? He says. Oh, yeah. If only you know, in Shakir to if only you just be grateful. Like we have to move out of this thing of Allah is this benevolent dictator. He's not. Uh like would you for a moment forget this thing of, you know, we're going to be thrown into hell and all of this for a moment.

Let's focus on the bond between us and Allah. The bond of gratitude. The bond of that truly Allah loves us. And you know, here [clears throat] there's an interesting just uh like a tangential note to share. You see Allah's one of his names that, you know, we are taught in the tradition you see Allah doesn't go by the name even though he uses the verb in the Quran that you have to love.

But when it comes to referring to himself as the one of love he doesn't use the name Al-Muhib. That which in Arabic means the lover. Like somebody who loves is Al-Muhib. Allah does use the verb in the Quran you have Allah loves such and such you have Mu'tazilites you have those you have but Allah uses the name Al-Wadud.

Now Wadud would is a higher form of love. Wud is a love that has where you actually give as well. Like you give you show it through certain deeds through certain actions through a compassion through a care. You see because I could say look oh I could say look I oh I love you or I, you know, we love this.

But but where where is the manifestation of that love? Sometimes you get like a toxic love. People could have a a weird twisted love. They could have a but wud comes from this kind of encompassing compassionate love which has action tied to it. This is why when Allah uses the verse about couples and he calls them not towards hub.

He calls them what you call between a common water. Which is from the word wud mawaddah. He calls you to that love. Are you familiar with the gospel in Greek? Right. Okay. To tell us tell us about it. So in there's a part in the gospel where Jesus Islam is talking to to Cephas or Peter. Peter, right? Like the rock. And um The rock, yeah. And Peter says he asked if if he loves him and he says I I philia you.

I love you. They're different words for love in Greek, right? And Jesus says but do you do you agape me, right? So this is the distinction that you're making. Yeah, and and agape is that kind of um uh almost that that kind of non-erotic that that kind of love as well for your brotherhood humanity. But you know, mawaddah wud is slightly I would say different in the sense that wud mawaddah is this it is it can be between I mean it can be between people who like male female as well but hence Allah uses it between couples.

But it is one that is not just because love could just be words like an expression, but what is the like how how does the love manifest in the dunya? Like how does it manifest? Like for example somebody could say well I'm punishing you because really I love you. You know, like and and and in their twisted way that could be, you know, may maybe they're not lying.

Maybe in their twisted way that's how they they have a sick twisted version of So Allah when Well, but religious conservatives love love that kind of theological Yeah, like people will say oh well Allah you know, well you deserve he deserves this this is a kind of mercy. This is a kind of love that like a tough love. They need this punishment for example.

Well, there's there's a little bit of that. If if I can tell you a little story about my my recent biography. So I haven't I haven't made a a video. I have a a channel called Zen Zen Islam. Um, people want to check it out. It has very few subscribers. So I'd love it if I'd love to get on there. Zen Islam. Check it out people. Somebody write it in the comments. And I haven't uploaded a video for 5 months. I just did one today responding to um Tim Winter talking about Ali.

Because it's a very key stone to everything that we're talking about actually. Um, and the reason I haven't uploaded for 5 months is cuz I had a very hard time. I gave away a lot of my savings to Gaza and stuff last year. Alhamdulillah. So I'm I like to focus more on the Pelagian side of the accumulating not for sadaqa or acts of Jihad.

Um, not MI6 worthy Jihad, but you know, more metaphorical Jihad, but still you know, you lose a lot of things standing up for Palestine and and so on. And so um as I ran out of money uh my marriage completely fell apart. And um on the first day of of Ramadan I was escorted out of my home that I built with by police officers because my wife uh did a like a legal maneuver.

And so I haven't seen my son in 2 and 1/2 months and she's she's trying to confound them. I had to talk to a psych a psychologist the other day to clear up that I'm actually like pretty okay. And um I was driving out of my home listening to Surah Rahman. You know, I'm hungry, obviously it's Ramadan.

And I was in the car for 5 days and I was praying salah in the day. I got like blackheads cuz I'm you know, I don't have a clean I was really grateful for the iftars at the masjid. They wouldn't let me stay at the masjid. That's a policy that they've adopted. I was like, "Ah, Allah subhana wa ta'ala let me down." But I'm still grateful for the shower and uh and the the iftars. And I did actually feel a little bit even though what you're saying becomes an excuse for in oppression.

Right? [clears throat] And this is something we see with all of the zoom of various you know, the army of Bukhari. That's a great episode. You talk about that in Morocco. There's a There's a There's a billion of these throughout Islamic history and and Christian history and even recent history, by the way. We don't have to get sidetracked on that. We We know what we're talking about, but yet I do think there is something to I was my lowest point was my car battery died and I needed help.

And I had just gotten money so I could get into this this rental. And then I managed to get a jump and I was able to get a really cheap battery replacement. I was listening to Surah Waqiah. And I was uh you know, I wept because obviously I was relieved. And it was the combination of that with the sense of like my duas are actually being answered and I'm getting just enough back from Allah to to be in this difficult path and I'm able to taste what the Gazans that I was helping I was able to taste a fraction of like 20% maybe 15% of what they

deal with. It's It's very difficult being homeless. You have to juggle a lot of things. And they don't have McDonald's with um you know, with free electricity and bathrooms in Gaza cuz the maybe they did before. I don't think they did though. But if they did they would have gotten bombed, right? And um Oh man, it was a heavy time. So um you know, I just put my faith in Allah to open up the next chapter and maybe I'll be like Job in 6 months, you know, I'll be like I'll be okay anyway.

Before before anything I uh all of us we make dua for you as well. I mean Allah grant you ease. And shukran, I want to say shukran for sharing that even. You know, we look we all come together. We are ultimately bound and connected as one. We are clearly different manifestations in this dunya.

You know, I'm me, you're you, but we have this underlying current that connects us all. The arwah, the the souls have a connection and even in this dunya we are ultimately from one source of Adam. Now and then we all are shared. We are all connected with the first-person perspective that we all have this I uh this and this I am uh is really a mirror to Allah revealing himself that I am that I in any anna.

And we then have the we mirror this glimpse. We don't know what a person is going through. We don't know like uh you know, we meet somebody, we see a smile. We smile back. It So many people are fighting such a difficult battle and may Allah grant you ease. May Allah uh replace any difficulties and sorrows with abundance and joy.

I mean. And you know, this thing that you mentioned, I hear it so often. Um we see it so increasingly this instrumentalizing weaponizing is a better word of children. Um You know, it's such it is it is an act of tyranny. And it really I mean, it's so unfortunate because in that moment you see, in that moment of immediate and I'm calling it immediate even if it's the near future immediate

gratification of somehow avenging, you know, vengefulness like I don't mean necessary Now, the example I'm about to say doesn't this is not reflecting your case, but there may be cases where even if people are wronged, let's say a woman is wronged by the husband. Even if she is or she isn't or there's two sides to a story, but even if she is, let's say she is.

You see this kind of two wrongs most certainly do not make a right. Like one is to wrong him back which somebody would say, "Okay, two wrongs don't make a right, but you're human, whatever. You People act the way they do and that's going on everywhere." However, to involve the child who would be innocent to weaponize them uh so as to exact hurting and you know, to exact pain from the father, let's say.

We're going to Okay, weaponize this kid because the father's been you know, blah blah blah. He's been a right, you know, good-for-nothing towards me. Let's say this is the argument. Therefore I will now uh you know, preclude and prevent him from accessing this child and thereby punish him. But you see the the the the kind of stupidity and utter like diabolical naivety of that is that you primarily are hurting the kid.

You are hurting the man. You are hurt undeniably you are hurting the person. So you're getting some of your you know, goal is being achieved. But at what cost? You see, you are ruining a child's life because it's the child will always have an unsubstitutable real estate in the psyche that is preoccupied with the archetype or the template of the father.

But the child has a inherent like a being need for the father. Even if the father isn't physically present, but mentally there is this image of the father. Now and I get it. Sometimes some fathers can be uh horrible and they can be, you know, deadbeat or they can be uh not living up to their responsibilities and I get that and that is reprehensible.

Irresponsible they can be and but I'm talking here in these cases that I've spoken to, I've met people and everybody would know people who are actually trying really hard to meet their kids. And somehow in this kind of vengeance game they did you know, they prevented. This is ruining the child's life. The child will grow up with this forever.

You know, God forbid, but these kind of daddy issues of not having that father figure. The And then inadvertently the the mother is hurting herself because you see, the best person to share some co-parenting responsibilities with is going to be the father. No other man is going to fill that with that kind of earnest heart.

No man. So let's say a woman in the future, like she's not going to want to 24/7 365 be monitoring her children. She's going to want a break. She's going to want to you know, maybe go out with her friends. She's going to want to take take She's going to want Oh, you know what? On these days you take the kids. I will you know, I'll I'll have some me time.

She's a human being. By doing this ironically she she's sabotaging her own peace as well. But just for the sake of you know, the other This is that you know, that phrase that you know, there's this phrase in Urdu that where they say uh hum doob rahe hain tumhe bhi le doobenge. So you know, the fact I'm drowning, I'm going to make you drown as well.

We're all We're all going to drown together. The thing is the the relationship was declining gradually for years. Um but it was in a very friendly and adult and kind of post-feminist self-ownership aware of your emotions way except that she has bipolar disorder and my my great crime that opened this never happened was >> [laughter]

>> It was like she she asked me for a ride and I took her for errands and then I misunderstood her and I left her at the place and and she freaked out and she had to call her her dad to pick her up. So she was inconvenienced for 45 minutes, but the crime the the disorientation and the crying it triggered this manic And and I think I guess she's still in it a couple months later. So I appreciate that she's not really the same person that that I loved all these years and I love my children but I still love them by the way a little bit at an acceptable and reasonable level.

>> And I I want to say this that this isn't a story of you know for example bad villains good people women these mothers bad these you know divorcee women no no look they everybody this was my point is fighting a difficult battle. The problem is that we sometimes then take it out on isolated people so in these cases like I said in some of these cases they've genuinely been wronged.

In some cases maybe it's a misunderstanding maybe it's like a psychological disorder bipolar or sometimes you know you've had others borderline personality disorder you could have just all kinds of things. That's another one yeah. That's another now That's a funny one. These ones are not the I wouldn't have lasted 12 years I had a a BPD girlfriend once and I wouldn't have lasted.

I barely lasted >> you know like and it's it is it is these things are scary as hell because you see because people can't just they generally can't I suppose fix themselves. But I I would argue I'd put a little caveat in that. I think if they come to acknowledge that they have got an issue with something then there is some very recent study and I by recent I mean like in the last two years only two to three years that is showing by radically changing a diet and switching to what I think was the carnivore diet

that they That's right. surprisingly cured things like bipolar and which was treated as incurable by the way. So this is seen as incurable as is BPD but there's been some very very recent modern studies very recent where and people stumbled upon them by accident that they found that whoa that they actually treated because the the gut is a second brain and keeping in mind there's more serotonin in our internal nervous system which is the gut thing than there is in the brain.

So I think if a person acknowledges that there is an issue and then they try moving towards some help by doing something maybe there's some hope. You know and and I make dua for the you know for everybody struggling and this is not by the way I want I want to reiterate this. When I'm saying that and I [clears throat] was saying it then as well but I'm reiterating it this is not a you know bad bad mother scenario good good strange husband no no this is they're all struggling and this is my point that

sometimes by doing this it is further it's like creates a spiral loop because what will happen is you see by weaponizing children which might be the easy thing to do that at that stage because you might think well you know this is the one thing that's going to hurt him and I boy I could really do with him being hurt. Now but by doing that you're adding stress to your own immune system because you are going to now be full time with this child and you're going to be fighting this mental this kind of like oh you know what I'm getting him and then he's coming back

>> she got him in daycare is what is what the lady cuz I haven't I haven't heard peep obviously cuz I've been blacked out but the the psych lady told me that but your comment about the the diet was actually very on point. It sounds like one of those Joe Rogan things that wouldn't make sense and then it's just it's like oh but you heard about the gut biome but actually in August September she was keto for six weeks and it was like the best time in our marriage in in like years and then and then I sort of ran out of money and and then things you know went went pretty much downhill.

And and she would use also Buddhist meditation to treat herself so she was discharged from state subsidized treatment on that basis. She she showed you know really good signs but then when I couldn't pay for daycare she was upset about that. She was getting less sleep the kid gets sick and then you're getting even less sleep she didn't have time to meditate and this exacerbated Yeah and I find that you know another challenge to throw into the mix here is and I think this is more so western pattern families which is increasingly

becoming the norm even amongst Muslim cultures as well that you see especially when a woman has had a child there is very little support structure like in the more traditional you know you might say eastern kind of oriented families or in the Muslim cultures and in other cultures that were generally non-western you had a lot of familial involvement.

So like let's say her wife's sisters the wife's mother the husband's sisters the like there's a lot of women folk that are kind of almost there's this collective mothering of a child that the child is there and obviously the mother's you know newborn infant but there's all these other people stepping in oh you know what okay the baby's born they hear the grandmother the aunts the the sisters >> We had grandma we were living on the same land as as the grandmother.

So um But I feel that what's happened with with with modern times in especially in the west and in the western paradigm even though there are grandmothers and there are but people are so busy that it's not easy them just stepping in all the time and this I feel has a direct correlation with postnatal depression.

So that they the as well. You can blame feminism you can blame a lot of things but the way that economics has reframed human time has made it gone from basically it's included to being very expensive to get child care. Yeah and I and I want to come back to that that but this point on you know this postnatal depression antenatal depression because that can be very dangerous in some women like they can become suicidal they can become very self-sabotaging they can become because

the brain is really shut down in its healthy way and it can last for years like I've known some people who've told me their wives went through it and they went through it for years like I don't you know we're not talking like weeks here we're talking like three years going through a depressed state. That's and I feel that the way society is formed especially the western society it allows that to develop because cuz the stress is so much like having obviously the baby if the baby for example and some and they vary obviously some babies are more

you know calm than others but if the baby's going to be unsettled He was he was breaking everything >> [laughter] >> for years. I get I get that sense that you going to have that energy. My boy is is a tough one yeah yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. So and >> the other part though I do think there's an akida aspect to it. So we would have very great this is one of the best things about the relationship is she's like an intellectual and we would have all these conversations and I I made dua for her on Laylat al-Qadr when I converted to Islam three years ago.

And I I prayed that Allah would do for her what he did for me cuz it was really helping me converting to Islam. Help me really just grow up and get my get my act together. And and it kind of did so she tried out Seki and she didn't find it was like quite deep enough and then she got into Buddhism and and she got really into Buddhism and I I paid for her to go do a seminar and she got sort of she sort of did bya in the in the Tariqa of Avalokiteshvara the Tibetan thing with this Khenpo from uh from New York who who speaks Spanish and so she she got like actually more of a Tariqa experience with with Buddhist I have cuz there's only Naqshbandi here

and I think Naqshbandi is a little a little weird. Um but you know maybe Chisti or something I would I would go. Um anyway so we we've discussed Islam and and the the overlap between like ihsan in Islam and then especially Sufi mystical Islam and the Buddhist tradition and I'm open to the interpretation that they're ahl al-kitab even that that Buddha maybe didn't have all the akida notes maybe you get different notes from different messengers but there's just a lot of good conduct it's it's actually it's tremendously impressive how much overlap there is.

But where there isn't overlap this is something we were discussing we had a really good chat about about this stuff in like January. It's funny how quickly things can change. And she basically rejects the prophets because like she had the she had the ganas as we say in Spanish las ganas to convert on Okay yeah the passion.

In 2024 she was praying Isha with me. And she was like she was watching the YouTube tutorials on how to like steam your hijab and all this stuff. >> what's her origin? American. Oh, she's Chilean. Which what She's a Latina. >> Oh, Latina. Oh, right. Okay. So, that Latina >> of a sort of Arabic sort of Turco-Arabic uh phenotype that just kind of prevailed over the the centuries.

>> Yeah. Um and um Yeah, basically she she didn't convert to Islam because of like feminism. She she didn't think Surah Nisa was was very nice with its framing of of the decree over over that. That was And I said, "Well, it's only one degree. It's not five degrees. It's just one degree." >> Hey. You know, it's [laughter] not The framing the Surahs as which is nice, which is a Yeah, so um Reminds me of an anecdote which I'll No, no, I'll I'll I'll come back to this.

There's an anecdote >> in the in the ummah, you know, Muslim women get divorced all the time, you know? So, it's not like, "Oh, Muslim women are just going to do whatever for a man." It was like that due to cultural Imam Sharia board preferences. They wouldn't give the the khul' very often. Um like in India, for example, it's hard to get khul'. In the UK, it's very easy to get You can get khul' for having ED. >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean?

Khul'. Khul'. As in talaq as in talaq divorce. >> Yeah, khul' is you you return the deposit, but yeah, khul' you got to yeah, you got to sue for it. Um and then even [clears throat] this this obviously kufri >> don't By the way, I don't believe that they have to return You know, this returning of the mahr thing is not Some people see this as an absolute, uh but it's not uh an absolute necessarily.

This is more like a suggestion if the marriage was seen as like a sham marriage. Now um So So, what that what it appears and and I know there's going to be a there is a difference looking at this. So, what you have is this narration of this woman who is divorced by her husband.

And then she realizes, "You know what? I'm going to go marry somebody else." But really she has this longing for this husband she was with, this man. So, she goes to somebody else and she marries him. And I think he's reasonably, you know, he must have had some wealth to him. So, he gifts her a garden. And he says, "You know what? You I'll gift you this garden." And they get married.

And within days, literally days she comes to the prophet and says, "You know, oh, I married this person and I'm not happy and I want to leave." And and and the prophet for guides her first like, you know, is there like maybe could have patience in the relationship or something. And she says, "Oh, I can't stand him and you know, this new guy and Right. I find him kind of dis like I find it that she goes, "His character is amazing, but I just find his appearance disgusting and revolting and I I can't be intimate with him." >> the ick.

Yeah, she got the Yeah, the most >> [laughter] >> That's That's it. The ick. Have you seen those real She had to open the car door kind of stretch out of the car a little bit to push the parking button and and she was like, "This is [laughter] not a man that I'm attracted to." Yeah. You know, have you seen those reels where they'll be like, "What does a guy have to do to give you" and it'll be like and then he'll go to notes and he'll be like number 685.

He'll add, "Okay, just don't breathe." Or And this one where this woman says she goes "You know, when he was uh I think he's he like a UFC he's he's some UFC fighter or something and she goes, 'You know, when he was getting hit he kind of went uh you know, like which man does that?' You know, like as he's getting hit. And so, he's like, 'Ah ah okay.' >> [laughter] >> You know, only like giving women the ick is the modern equivalent of hadith-based major sins that are and are not to be and they're not well Well, man.

So, yeah, so she in in that day and age you would say, "Yeah, that this guy just gave her the ick." So in that hadith then the prophet says, "Okay, fine." He says, "At least return to cuz the prophet What's what you could interpret from this is the prophet is seeing that this is a bit of a sham marriage that was set up. That she she It's only been a few days.

She's got into it. She clearly her heart was not into it right from the get-go. And it seems unfair that this person has given her this garden and she's about to And you know, it seems like this whole thing was very not best in the best intentions orchestrated. So, the prophet says, "Okay, at least, you know give his garden back." So, she says, "Okay." Now this hadith is being then treated as this is a must.

Now, it's not a must. It's one Sure, it's a must if it's a sham marriage and fraudulent. You're defrauding the man out of his wealth. And it's it's been only a very short time term. Let's say you're talking days. Um you know, even if it's been a week. So, I have heard of cases, for example, a woman got married. Before getting married, she said, "Okay, I want this much money like at least 10,000.

Transfer it into my account. Um I want this." Then when she's got married, she's uh said This was an actual case somebody was discussing with me. She'd said, "Oh, you know, she's not feeling well. Maybe it's the wedding. Maybe it's this." So, a few days she's been like somewhat unwell. Like I don't want any intimacy. I don't want anything. I'm not well. Then she said, "I think I need to go home for a few days." And then she just disappeared.

So now So, a sham marriage even if it was like a week or something like this of a very short number of days, short time span seems very fraudulent from the get-go when you analyze it. Uh and there's wealth involved. Yes, in those cases she must Islamically give it back or it's her duty to give it back. In other cases if it was relatively Let's say it was even if it wasn't that short, but it was relatively short.

Let's say you're talking months. Let's say you're talking even a year. It's a suggestion. This is a guideline from the prophet that look, they can consider this. Because if let's say it's been a few months and depending on what he'd given. Let's say it was real estate. It was properties. It was Is this really fair? Uh are you not just Now, this is a guideline that should you not be, you know, go. If, however, they've lived a life as husband and wife for many years.

You know, like let's say 12 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later. Uh let's say eight years later. The couple are going through a divorce. And the husband says, "Oh, when I married you I gave you these gifts. Give them back to me." No, like that does not make any sense that they've lived together even if, you know, I'm sure there were ups and downs during let's say those eight years, five years, 10 years.

But that's a full-on married life. Like you can't You know, there's a hadith in Sahih Muslim that for a person who goes back to a gift is like a dog kal-kalbi ya'udu fi qay'atihi. It's like a dog returning to his vomit. Like this is the kind of dis like the how the revolting image that the hadith describes. So, I feel that what's happened is our culture Can you see that being a real issue?

So, the the culture >> of foxy idiom of of the From our culture has turned this incident of the wife must return things. So, you'll have incidents where there's domestic violence, the guy is beating her black and blue. And the molana is saying, "Okay, she needs to pay him to leave." This is ridiculous. I feel that guy is a misuse of an abuse of the Islamic system which never victimizes victims.

>> I think it should just be like $500 in silver coins or or Litecoin or whatever, right? Like something like that. Bitcoin. And then [laughter] you just And then you just >> To the mufti. You go, "Okay, everybody just transfer Bitcoin to me." And they go, "Okay, fine." >> Yeah. I hereby >> [laughter] >> By the way, your your bit about halala was probably the funniest of all of the Monday nights um segues.

Cuz that one had a little planning when it That was more like material that you you had put together. That was pretty good. Um Yeah. I I like instead of going into like different sectarian >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, of course. I like where this conversation's gone. No, cuz this issue Love is really the most profound Yeah. thing in in all of reality, isn't it? And one of my favorite lines in the Quran Mhm.

>> [clears throat] >> What's that? I said one I 100% believe. And not only just to I just want to just just add a note to what you were saying. I was having a discussion with someone >> [clears throat] >> It's probably been a few months. Uh he came to visit me. We had this whole discussion and the topic came up of then love.

I do believe that you see love in this cuz and this was said by some of the ancient thinkers as well that love is it's not just it's not just like a you know neurochemical that it is a kind of force field that it has that this is something part of the creation of Allah that it has you know how Carl Jung said that people don't have ideas ideas have people that in the similar way that love is a

force field that it it kind of envelops people. So [snorts] it's not just and and and it's opposite two sides of the same coin it would be love and hate. It would be attraction and repulsion. That almost this gravitational pull and then this repulsion away from so we could translate that as love and hate.

But it is a part we can't see it but it is like a force field in this dunya. But yeah sorry carry on with what you were saying. I just wanted to say >> in the dunya. I think so I I hold to a Mu'tazili Aqidah and I believe that the attributes are all one and it's sort of like the curvature of space time with dark energy is this very like so I I would I would even so I would even re purpose what you're saying there to say that that's I not even Mu'tazili I would actually believe that is really mainstream Islam.

It should be that way that Allah has never that Allah has never named himself as saying the this belief of attributes. Allah [snorts] has only given names of his he's never said oh I have such and such sifat that you need to believe in these sifat. Now sure we could say Allah has you know he does these things of course he does these things.

But this way it's become the way it's become a core tenet of faith that we have to say well Allah has names and Allah has this thing called sifat. That's never been taught in the Quran it's never been taught in the Sunnah it's not been taught in any Hadith. It's a discussion that emerges in the time of Imam Ahmad because they didn't know how to frame the speech of God. So they had to come up with this thing of saying well it's an And then all the other [clears throat] attributes Yeah exactly.

So so I think you know people popularized same they had the same dilemma in Christianity and it was only really strongly resolved by Thomas Aquinas reading of Avicenna who was a post falsafa post Mu'tazili kind of guy and then in the Summa Theologica he's like these are descriptions this is to help us kind of understand the big picture they're not like individual this isn't you know an RPG where God has like a stat sheet that are actually distinct stats right so um yeah so the the Rahman the justice and the hikmah and and the love

>> with the whole love thing because that's actually where this conversation actually began as well yeah. My one of my favorite lines in the Quran is that who's that among our signs is that we have created for you mates and placed between you understanding and compassion a sign for those who contemplate.

And that word there is the word for love. You know they translate it as compassion. That is mawaddah. Oh really? So that ties in beautifully full circle to where we started with that this is the name of Allah al-wadud. That he uses that as his name. >> what you experience like the a marriage is like a tariqa for everyday people who aren't going to go off and and do mawlid staying up drinking coffee and doing zikr they don't have time for that.

They got you know they were young they like this girl now they're like okay I don't know if you know we we don't really like each other all that much but we have >> Somebody had somebody had asked earlier what is the way to Somebody had asked earlier what is the way for all these young people they were saying well you know they seem to be struggling divorce later. No. >> [laughter] >> No I think they're saying well how do they even find them?

Yeah I think I would say just get married if you're you're 20 or whatever just get married man and just don't worry about it. Like you'll get divorced probably. Yeah >> [laughter] >> but if you're female well there's alif right there people if if you're female alif is right there he's just looking for ba. Alif ba. My whole [clears throat] dating pool is divorced women these days so Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Is that where it's happening?

It's pretty much divorced women but yeah but the point is that >> missing out yeah. We need we're in the wrong circles. Right. Um the point though is that the point of the marriage is yeah great you know protects you from haram you can enjoy it you have fun and the children are very expensive and and drive you crazy but then they're kind of great all these things.

Help but you know you maybe you have a a spouse with mental illness or physical illness that's extra challenging. But the point is not actually to have a good time. That's just part of the balance of getting through life is that you need to have a good time some percentage of the time. Um it's it's it's an opportunity to get hasanat and to grow in hikmah by having to solve problems and maybe you don't solve them but you can then solve them with a I thought hasanat with the woman for a moment when you said it's all really just to get hasanat.

I thought okay. And who is hasanat? >> [laughter] >> No hasanat is a That's true that's that's a name sometimes yeah. Yeah if I carry on now. So and and the same thing with children this is I think this is in a Hadith maybe that every time you put food in your child's mouth that's ajr for you right so and it seems like well of course I'm doing I'm not going to let my kids starve but but like it's the same with fart you get rewarded for fart it's you know it doesn't have to be nafl.

So so I think with this perspective you can go into it and and just kind of fail fast if you're going to fail and and try to do it in a erasmatize top tip my hat to you my lady kind of kind of way you know like >> [laughter] >> People alif the rizzler in the flesh. >> [laughter] >> Yeah so I've been going on a while I'm going to I'd love to chat another time.

My the website with the books is called it's thequranists.com. Okay. Um Just wow see no I've appreciated this conversation's been amazing actually it's been a whole roller coaster but it's been connected. >> expect it to go to go so personal No I'm I'm glad you did I'm glad you did. You know this was one of those conversations that would love to have if it was off air we would have had to take out a cigar and just Yeah yeah.

just one of those conversations yeah but wow so I I do feel Yeah that that there's a lot of people who have you know the the the reason I think this conversation was so had so much soul in it is because these are things and issues that are affecting that are so real for so many people. You know this thing of emotions this thing of love this thing of family thing of it not working out even thing of mental health this thing of uh problems you know um going escalating like you mentioned you

know the struggles that you mentioned um yourself you know being made homeless being almost but due to you know some yeah but but the challenges and people almost doing it to one another you know it's not just circumstances it's almost that human dynamic that we're on this journey in this dunya and so much is happening and so much is happening by sometimes people and maybe people as well you know I do think I I feel more so

that especially as with age as we're aging inshallah gracefully into the grace and the wisdom of the Lord that I feel that many people they and this goes for most people in their own way they even the people doing hurting other people let's say or doing wrong on to not doing good by them or like in their own way everybody is just tired you know they're just um like they have become a version of themselves that they don't necessarily want to be

and I feel it's just you know that that and this then ties into that discussion we were saying about with Allah and love that what Allah why he's called himself introduced himself as al-wadud the one who loves but with the love he shows that love must have a manifestation.

It can't just be a like oh I love you but then what is it like what is the money for this is why they often translate my weather not as love they say compassion in the translation but it actually means love that has a compassion and a giving to it a physical gift like you're actually doing things that you are you know you're not just theoretical love it's not abstract it's it hasn't physical presence to it and this is the name of Allah then and there's a beautiful there's a friend [clears throat] of mine very dear friend of mine

he you know we met up recently and he was going through some challenges in life and you know he'd also been through a very I think like a not exactly similar but a a scenario where he'd his relationship had broken down as well and and in his case he'd kind of lost everything to the misses you see you know she took the kids took the house took you know all this kind of stuff but Allah had and it kind of but but Allah had blessed him in the time with he'd got a new family and because it took a several

years for the whole court process and you know he'd had he'd been blessed with children as well and Allah blesses in fact twins you know Allah bless them for him and I was just you know we were sharing this conversation and and I said look a poem comes to mind because some things were taken from him wrongfully like you know when a person does you over sometimes it's the being done over done on to that hurts and it's you know it's a bit like let's say

it could be at a small level like imagine you catch a cab and the guy's trying to rip you off you there's a rage but imagine he wasn't you you might happily give him more so maybe the the sum amount you give in the end is the same but on one hand you're giving you know what oh thanks mate yeah bud have some extra here's a tip on the other hand he's ripping you off and you you feel he's ripping you off and there's a rage that because you feel done on to now that being done on to is the problem and I said you know there's this line of Motonabi and it ties into this the same

verb this wood love and here really beginning with to Allah and back and then people that he's there's this line that's how we should think of it that either nil nominal with the fall back here that so long as we get that love from you all else is easy

that all that is above the dust is merely dust you know everything we see in this dunya buildings things assets it's really everything above dust is ultimately dust that's all it will turn into one day so what what transcends that is that love so and it begins with the divine love and then with people because we mirror that then you know with each other as as as the you know the name of Allah but wow it's been really

the theophany of discovering the other and the theophany I I love that is the tajalli what the mystics in Arabic use the word the tajalli of Allah tajalliyat and the theophanies these kind of divine expressions having a tough relationship and then you you you like but you really what if I share this with the de-escalate and then I we can like reconcile this is also a tajalli even though it seems like it's it's quite a fitna you know but that's I I wonder if take on hell right and then by implication heaven would also be just a

different path to the same realization what the cooling of the fire is about right and you just cuz you were a nice person you can do it by just having tons of orgies and you know getting drunk and jannah whatever right like where where are where are these places >> [laughter] >> I think I think it's level one of jannah is the you get the snack bar and the river of wine and and then you go up then you get into the higher levels where it's more because you're over that right so now cuz that's like boring after you know a thousand years right so then you you move into the higher

you know there was this there was this meme where some people you know British humor they were saying they had some people were circulating this was a while back where you had these protests and you know some there was tensions a couple of years back in the UK and some people they were going like they were so they were at this place they were like Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar Allahu Akbar so some person said I understand all this is going on but why are they all saying Alan snackbar >> [laughter] >> why do people keep saying Alan snackbar so >> but you know the memeification of like

inshallah this has caught on this and also you know what's happened with Iran and the whole Shia Catholic meme I don't know if you've heard this that it's like the Shia Catholic alliance but I do I do feel that all of this struggle that's been going on with Gaza and now with Iran is normalizing the idea that maybe these people aren't terrorists they're they're guilty of excesses and they're guilty of war crimes but that they're ultimately on the side of

they're they're ultimately more just than the you know the establishment I feel that I don't feel I that it is undeniable that now the facade the hypocritical facade that some of the West had the kind of haughty hubris has been exposed with with beginning with Gaza then Epstein files then this Iran war that Israel has been exposed for what it is in front of the world it's kind of tyranny it's

it's it's actually genocidal and maniacal outlook has been so laid bare that the world now sees it and and those who are still pretending not to see it is such an act so I think you know as there's a verse in the Quran that in Surah Yasin that and set aside draw aside today oh you perpetrators one thought that you become separated from the crowd

that you will become distinctly clear today and separated from the crowd oh you who truly are the perpetrators and so and I feel we as people we unfortunately are too powerless we couldn't have done it Allah did it Allahu Akbar and he's revealing and he continues to reveal and you know may Allah protect all of those victims in Gaza and worldwide and you know all of these victims are victims of the genocidal campaigns the

bombardment in Iran the and even just the exploitation of the Epstein kind of classes well wherever these victims whoever they have may have been may Allah protect them may Allah you know keep them Iran has done honestly it is just wow they Iran has truly stood a hero in this you know in the face of all of this tyranny and you know may Allah protect and bless

Iran and and all you know countries that are trying to rise against this kind of fascistic genocidal you know mania and it's and it's good to see some like it's it's amazing how the Spanish is it prime minister or president but Pedro Sanchez how he's risen as this amazing leader in all of this and and some other countries now following suit and and and some still in denial but they it is definitely said target

Keir Starmer is kind of depends on the day no I I think Keir Starmer is compromised man honestly he's massively compromised how is nobody speaking you know Keir Starmer right now there's a case going on in court where you've got three three Ukrainian rent boys being charged for arson attacks for petrol bombing Keir Starmer's private lodging and his vehicles.

And no mainstream media is covering this. This would be an act of terrorism uh if it's anywhere else, but it's not because they are obviously sex They're sexual rent boys uh who are >> Like what what what are what are they doing? Like how do they Does anybody Nobody knows. Okay, the Kier Starmer's private lodging >> money, maybe, huh? Exactly. It's because he's been taking the Well, I mean, uh this is what I'm curious.

What what else has it been? I want to know. Everybody wants to know. Uh I am certain these people are compromised. And this is maybe not as compromised as other people, but they're definitely compromised along the line. I do hope that in the UK, the the Greens [clears throat] inshallah kind of um have a sweeping victory. But yeah, we've >> This could put wear for president in 2028, huh?

For the US. Let's get a bunch of green bunch of green Muslim leftist in power. I mean, people are going to love that, you know? Like You know, what it is is Yeah, this this discussion today I saw this clip of uh some what seemed like just to be racist Islamophobic uh rhetoric by I've forgotten the the politician, this lady. They always get like a brown face to do it, by the way.

So, she's saying, "Oh, will they condemn the Muslim vote? The Muslim vote is being to kind of, you know, create success for certain parties. And And that's a democratic right. It's like, what the hell? All of a sudden, when it becomes Muslim, it's like Oh, the Muslim vote is now this >> Yeah, the the court psychologist The court psychologist asked me, among other questions, uh if I'm a Muslim.

I said I I said, "Yes." I didn't say alhamdulillah. I was going to have alhamdulillah. I was going to put it in there. Keep a lid on it for now. And um And then she asked me if I believe that women have the right to um do business and drive and have their own money and things that leave the house. And I said, "Well, I have a different inter- I have an interpretation where yes, women have rights to do a lot of things." Um I was going to tell her the hadith about the woman who was selling door-to-door that I heard from you.

Uh and then the guy like made out with her and it was a bit of a drama. As evidence that women were independent business uh vendors at least in that. You know, just Yeah. side note, we'll Oh, by the way, I think that lady that I was saying is Layla Cunningham. Somebody just said. But yeah, circling back to this uh just a quick point and we'll kind of wrap up as well is uh uh It's an interesting topic, which ties in, by the way, to what we were speaking about.

And I do love how these threads all are interwoven of relationships, love uh behavior, separation uh that Muslims often, especially in the West, uh you know, we get this negative press of Muslims are just controlling control Islam is controlling. Now, maybe some Muslims might be like that. Uh and they need to learn, but Islam isn't. And it's Now, looking at that, oh, women are controlled by their men and Islam controls the women.

That this controlling behavior Controlling behavior should always be deemed wrong. Right. And in Islam, you know, speaking of you reminded me from You said, "Oh, you know, you shared these narrations years ago." There was a narration that is very popular in many of the books. And that you had uh uh it's And it's used for fiqh rulings that uh this this person, he's complaining to the prophet that his wife is always that she's not only very flirtatious

but she's allowing that men that are trying it on with her, she's kind of uh enabling. What would you say? Like an enabler or she she kind of allows it, goes along with it. Uh so, the Arabic she's he says to the prophet that la taruddu yad al-lamis, that when I'm, you know, like some men that are on it with her, like if they try to touch her, she she doesn't even She doesn't remove their hands or anything.

She That's the wording in Arabic. So, the Yeah, so the prophet sal allahu alayhi wasallam says, "Okay." He says, "Well, divorce her." tallaqha And the person says, "I can't, you know, uhibbuh like I'm in love with her and so on." And then the prophet says, "Fasbir then." Then just be patient. But it's an interesting uh a very fascinating response to the whole culture >> point of view that that disproves all of this dayoos.

Oh, you're a dayoos. You You let your wife have her face on And so They were touching her. rhetoric, yeah. And this Does that not also clash with the the pin touching an namahram is is like a pin to the head or whatever? That's pretty famous one, right? Sure. I mean, you could bring that in, but also this thing of like violence refuting that refuting that kind of you know, people might you know, there may be cultures that condone some level of violence or some level of what they might say violent discipline.

It It It kind of uh it absolutely shatters all of these things that hadith does. Because the reaction and the response from the prophet sal allahu alayhi wasallam is so um you know, disillu- disillu- disillu- disillu- to people who have a certain perspective. So, I just thought, "Wow." That that, you know, coming back to what you said, "Oh, this person said, 'Oh, the view of Islam towards women.'" And it's it's the whole culture may have certain >> it was like the feminist religion is coming for for me now and I have to be like No, I'm a good Muslim.

I'm not a I'm not one of those guys. Um But we're going to see more of this uh tension, by the way, in the coming uh years, I think. Um But alhamdulillah, you know, the struggle is part of late Nora Vincent with immersion experiment living as a man for her book Self-Made I think I've heard of that, if I'm correct. I think that's the one And then committed suicide. She committed suicide because she she was so depressed about how how tough it is.

Yeah. It is a tough world. Allah grant ease. Well, Alif, it's been an absolute pleasure. I'm glad you did come on because it really turned into a wonderful uh conversation a dialogue, a mind trap in and of itself it became. Indeed. >> So Well, on that note, um I would love for people to come uh subscribe to Zen Islam and and check out who are the Quranists.com and read that book.

And I I was meaning to do another book last year. link >> just a PDF. It's free. You can just download it. Just host it on the on the site. Um I've been meaning to do another book called Finding Ingeel, where I try to deep dive like what if we're going to do a hadith critical but not hadith rejecting digest of of the hadith tradition as as you're, you know, somewhat infamous for with Bukhari gate and so on, which was which is excellent excellent arc.

Um one of the top top five uh Mufti arcs. Um we should do it for the Gospels, right? And so, I've spent a year and a half or so, um just deep diving every, you know, Bart Ehrman and is like the the level one and then you you get into more specific. Yeah, I know I've gone on a long time. No, somebody goes so and a half with Alif. This is Emmi.

He goes Ba is next. >> [laughter] >> And then So, I am trying to get this I I want to get this I feel like like today I I did a video and I kind of rebooted the channel and I jumped on here. I want to do more of this stuff for Allah that's just not going to make me money or anything and probably won't even get huge reach, but it's just it's there and it's got some reach. Keep your I'm going to write this book, inshallah.

And now I'd love to talk with you about it when I You know what? Yeah, reach out to me on uh drop me a message on Insta and we'll and we'll connect, inshallah. Stay connected. But keep stay strong, inshallah. Allah grant you ease, grant ease to all others. And it's been a beautiful conversation. So, thank you once again. >> mate. And if I ever visit What is it? Is it Chile? Then we will have to >> yeah.

uh we'll have to definitely have a Chilean cigar. Yeah, that's right. Right. So, [laughter] till then, take very good care of yourself. We'll speak soon, man. Assalamualaikum. People, that was an absolute pleasure with Alif um from Latin America joining us with a what just a a wonderful weave of conversations and dialogues.

Yeah, just absolutely We just went through a whole But I See, this is the amazing thing of the whole uh the dialectic that there is a thread that connects it all. So, it's all connected. All right. Uh so, that was with Alif. And next, it's Ba. >> [laughter] >> Eventually, we'll get to the more glottal ayn, ghayn.

Right, people. It's been an absolute pleasure. We've gone on for quite a while. And let's wrap this up. Uh those of you that want to reach out, Instagram. Uh, definitely like, follow, subscribe. Uh, yeah, click notifications for the YouTube. Do leave a comment with your thoughts. I do love reading the comments and uh, Insta's a great place to be connected.

Uh, for quick, you know, for anything detailed, uh, head over to Patreon. And patreon.com/malcolm. Where is it? Let me see. Does it come here somewhere? No. Oh, there is. Right. Okay, so you can see the /malcolm. [snorts] And you can I'm just clicking some of these different links actually, just experimenting as well.

Hmm. Right. So, yeah, you can uh, book one-to-one consultations. And there is like a kind of like a mentorship program where, you know, once a month we touch base, go over certain things, thoughts, discussions. Uh, just kind of a navigate through that journey over time, as well as being part of the Discord.

So, on the Discord, obviously, we do have our our group chats and our kind of uh, uh, yeah, the the meetups there as well. Other than that, take very good care of yourselves, people. Allah keep you all blessed. And remember to say a kind dua for others around the world as well.

Salamullahi alaykum. Wa Khudha Hafiz.