Dr Majid Sheikh | Playwrights, Pandemics & Proving God? | MindTrap #49 | Mufti Abu Layth

[Music] [Music] all right people all right in alhamdulillah what's firstly let me just check that the sound is going through

all good just do a quick audio check one moment just bring up the the chats right here all right you've got you're doing it you're doing it mo sepro karima alright people um yep we need subtitles for you to phrases sure sure

just doing a quick sound check just let me know if the feeds coming through uh saliha clear so i'll let you guys just [Music] right where's the oh there is so i'm just waiting a confirmation that the sound is all fine i haven't got this as we can arrive rami you're doing it you're doing it people let me bring before you a profile picture of tonight's

epic guest of honor allah akbar look at that people look at that right there you've got the anaesthetist extraordinaire people right right there that could that is it's not it could be it is a superhero in the making somebody who not only has killed the medical profession expertise but also has clocked the the the the arena of ferc of maliki and teaching

so let's bring him right on look people allahu akbar assalamu alaikum thank you very much for having me back on again it's an absolute pleasure doc it's an absolute pleasure i'm just gonna make sure that people because you know just because of bad experiences i don't want your wise words to fall on mute ears [Laughter] you know these people talk someone bookman omiyon

right so let me just check can you guys hear uh can you hear doc and his wise words yet to be uttered coming right through people yes uh i can i can utter all wise words let me just check with the another maliki he's doing it he's doing it right so i take it you guys can hear us we can hear him all good so doc

what's going on how are you it's it's been a while since we've last spoken uh yes what i would say um it's it's probably been about six months since we actually hooked up ourselves in the summer of our content when we could leave our houses and meet other people and not be faced with this lockdown misery um and yeah it's uh it's a year now since uh you graciously invited me on

to talk about this newfangled thing coming from wuhan which might have some ramifications uh you know uh in the world some kind of virus you said and we and we speculated and we talked about how this could change the world and let's be honest it's changed the world it has you know uh uh uh we we're not going to be talking of ad in bc we'll be talk we'll be talking of bc and ac before corona and after corona

talk because because let's be honest life is never going to be the same again never you know never you know uh the way that it you know it's um i mean people obviously ascribe things uh which they don't have knowledge to but i mean i just look at it from a kind of philosophical point of view that you know here is we don't know the mind of god obviously but obviously if god wanted to show you know asleep [Laughter]

he's put us in our place he has put us very much in our place you know exactly you know despised liquid and now he stands in rebellion again

here he is he's an open enemy he's like doing the challenge he's saying yeah i challenge you god i do the challenge and it's like updating it and and they like better achacha this is the trinity is it really

i think it's fair to say for everybody you know uh we've all had a lot of us have had you know been unwell uh i know you yourself suffered from uh corona i know many people many have been slain in the path of love doc so yeah yeah what do you say yeah genuinely speaking can you think of a time where every family has been affected i mean my family had i my that's my father's younger brother

passed away uh from colby and i speak to i get messages every couple of days from people saying do do after my father-in-law or do dwell for my sister dude for this or um you know can someone someone saw has passed away can someone recite some whatever messages just you know the forwarded messages that you get on whatsapp and this other and it's like yeah there doesn't seem to be at least in my okay maybe i've got a small friend circle allah

i don't know but you know i'd like to think i know quite a few people yeah and yet everybody uh i you know i i struggle to think of a family in which culvert hasn't uh affected them whether the people have recovered whether people have not recovered right whether you know the heartbreaking story as uh we were mentioning of uh affair you know a muslim family for example of the uh father

uh you know husband wife and son all being admitted to critical care and the husband and the son dying and the mother and the mother improving to the extent going to be waking her up and the nurses are wondering how do we tell her that the rest of her family's died and that she's now alone you know these kinds of um you know and i really feel that whilst we all look at these big figures hundred thousand deaths you know thousand deaths a day which you know i like i contextualized it to

someone who couldn't because you know once you get past certain number you can't kind of it doesn't make it doesn't mean anything is it a certain number it doesn't mean anything there's a threshold we're beyond that and that that's actually a principle in many things but yeah yeah yeah you know and i contextualized it by saying that you know of all if you were to add up the victims of all terrorist attacks that have occurred in the last 20 years whether by uh you know uh jihadist groups or irish groups or whatever in this country that would still not equal the daily death toll wow you know and when you put it in the context of that

you know it really kind of uh you know it hits you and i feel that this event isn't just going to have affected the hundred thousand people who have obviously left this world the all the hundred thousand families you know also who have been affected but all the other people around them you know um one of the reasons why i was a little bit uh i don't want to say lukewarm because you should never be lukewarm when praising allah because allah should always be praised

and we have always have thanks to give sugar for but there was there's there's a bit of melon calling when i say it because i see another disaster coming or another or another epidemic coming and i think what what's that doc you mean in terms of a disease or you mean i think that we are going to have a epidemic or a um however whichever phrase you want to put math problems with mental health right and i think that this is going to

have a affect uh every strata of society i mean forget about the people who've actually had covered you know we're now we're not even talking about them right i'm talking about the staff having had to look at them look after them you know whether it's doctors nurses carers things like that whether it's people uh you know you know apparently rates of domestic violence for example have gone up during this lockdown period whether it's um uh the increased birth rate which has occurred

you know i'm i'm not sure all of them were planned babies you know uh that occurred and you know the kind of uh psychological effect of trying to raise a child when you've got no support from anybody say you're a single mother or you're a new couple normally you'd have your mother or your sisters or your you know somebody to come and help you out with this new child now you have nobody right and frankly home schooling bloody hell i should give you some kind of fears

what makes you think i'm teaching them this is the time to this is the time to put up an ad for like contraception or something [Laughter] uh you know or i'll tell you i'll tell you one thing people who make masks people who are online tutors right and and none easier i swear they're gonna be minting it during this lockdown right um and uh you know i saw i mean you know but in all seriousness i think the mental health ramifications of this

gonna be you know i'm gonna be huge and we're gonna live with it for years you know um uh obviously world war one was obviously uh something you know very horrific but you know i slightly missed that one yeah you still missed that one yeah yeah i think i think it was just after you were born maybe just before i remember you know you know um but yeah so but you know the soldiers were still having ptsd calling it cell shop yeah i remember the thing yeah yeah the description in like freud's works and other things about the shell shock phenomenon

yeah you know and i mean i think in especially in a society that is not used to death on this scale i mean um you only have to go back two generations um maybe my mother my grandmother's generation you know they all they would have been surrounded by death killed somebody would have might have died in childbirth you know this last 50 years thanks to the uh advances in health care and things like that you know we've been we're kind of immune death doesn't happen yeah it's kind of and if it if it does happen doc it's

kind of removed and detached it's not like we don't deny the concept or the phenomenon of death but it's like it's always somebody else or something out there in our own weird kind of mental space bubble we feel that oh well you know to us oh it's not really a part of our uh reality yeah it's it's it's like one of the one of the things that when you hear when uh patients get diagnosed with a terminal illness you you hear this that you know the first uh reaction is that of disbelief it's how's this happening to me

this happens to other people yeah but it's a scary thought though it's a scary you know this obviously this whole i mean this is it this is about this is the thing i mean you guys doctors you know telling people these kind of scary things um i i just don't know how i mean obviously you could one could do it but it's just so it just feels so terrible to even i know but somebody has to do it you know you got to say well i'm sorry i i mean i mean there is an argument to be had i suppose of well look you know if the news is that crap anyway then what's the benefit of spreading it

right just tell them you know what uh just what are you up to nowadays just really you know you should really get out there enjoy and uh are you watching any new box don't start any new box sets just finish off the old one oh man keep them to about one season one season here next my hammer i've lost count of how many box sets somebody asked me i have what i've seen and i was like i i literally can't even have them have you watched standoff the new saif ali khan one yes i got through pandava in about in a day you see me a couple of days i spaced it out but i

loved tando you know that gritty was epic but season two was a bit um i felt they downplayed the whole you know i don't know i don't know you what you i i i mean never live up to the hype can it you know something's been uh hyped up especially since it was a year late as well supposed to have come out last year and then i think because of coronated you know i was gonna say look man that was that is one of the most amazing dramas i've ever seen

i totally agree with you man that that just had and it hit me where i wasn't because i wasn't even expecting it to be good let alone this good and it's just so bloody so damn good i mean you know you know forget about hindi uh speaking or indian you know just as a work of television it's just remarkable do you know what i mean it's just it's genuinely brilliant this is why i'm a movie critic as a lifestyle choice i mean it's my to experience this kind of art it's it's something yeah well you know i mean it is an art man it is a lot isn't it

it really is um which makes me actually this lends a question actually uh um why is it that the dramatic arts have never been something that have been a a part of muslim culture you know we've had i mean i i'm just purely asking from a uh just because i don't know rather than i'm not saying it should or shouldn't but you know you see you know you had playwrights

in western europe and uh going all the way back to the romans and the greeks you know and uh even in the uh indian subcontinent you know the ideas of you know ramayana and the mahabharata and the serra and you know the acting out of things and you know but this doesn't seem to be anything major amongst cultures is there is this just a an accident of history or is there actually a religious basis for that see that's a fascinating

thought man doc because i i was speaking a bit about this the other day just saying that there are certain things although not entirely drama but i was saying that linked i was saying there are certain things that muslims seem to have missed the boat on throughout history and and i mentioned like art was one uh i i said that they developed a muslim art like you know patterns in geometry and but they kind of missed the boat on actual art as in landscapes people that kind of stuff like the way you have regular art and its value today i said also music was something that they missed the boat on and you're right actually this uh as an

extension or related to arts the you know uh dramatic or theatrical kind of displays or just theater it's you know and it's not like that muslims did not have adam they had you know this literature this uh you know a vast plethora of resources in fact if you look at the uh whether it's majnunu leila love stories

uh all of these very famous arab and even from the desi you know yeah exactly and there's going to be all the so many but yet uh even though you know you've got in if we're going to look at the indoor pack in in from the hindu tradition you're going to have a lot of this you know dramatical play theatrical kind of display there are mayan and things like but muslims haven't really done this and it's interesting because is it really

a because if we say let's say we said it was based on religion but then there ought to be some people who were still doing it regardless like you know like music and people even if they felt it's haram but there'll still be certain people like producing kawali for example yeah like despite the norm they fought it and they made their own version so you would expect that you know if it was religious they came out with their own kind of take on it but but you're right they just seem to have you know just missed the vote i mean i mean i

i i when it comes to art and music i think you know uh muslims have contributed he mentioned about how a lot of the most exciting kind of developments in intellectual or creative uh faculties occurs at the boundaries of empires and at the bound where cultures you know connect you know

and so for example you know you look at uh the time of the movies you know there was art you know there were you know paintings of akbar and jahangir and you know the kind of uh you know with architecture as well musically speaking i mean you know this more than me but as far as i'm aware you know andalusia under muslim you know when under muslim rule yeah spain you know muslim spain they did have

a again another frontier area and an area you know close contact with other civilizations you know they did have you know there are many uh polymaths and whatever who came from there were also musicians yeah who also you know you see what i mean is that it's not that the muslim world when i say they miss the boat it's not that they never had this or produced it because like you mentioned the andalus in andalus they actually produced a they had a particular version of a guitar which is still found today was the old andalusia the kind of forerunner to the guitar it didn't have as many strings i think it just had

three or something but um it and their own music which you can still find even on youtube today uh i've been trying to share uh uh actually since last monday nights and over the next uh next two or three i'll share some arabic music so they had something called mushahat which and it was based on a particular rhythm and you can find it it's beautiful and even contemporary arab singers still sing their songs like uh but yet this is a very popular one um and this uh i know i i played the other one alla yosaki but there's uh

um but there's a there's other similar ones about saki and so on but my point wasn't that they didn't partake at all so when you mention the mural art it was done as a form of prestige for the kings and royalty and and stuff like that but you see because as a collective the society wasn't behind it so it didn't really flourish the way um because it was seen as a kind of taboo so it was there but whereas if you're going to look at you know whether it's florentine art or you're looking at other

eras throughout europe and actual you know the part of the renaissance and all these artists and their art that come moving forward was valued by society and hence it was kind of like oh wow and given these values and today it's worth you know millions and millions uh and muslims they did you know maybe sublimate that energy into buildings the taj mahal the killer the this that but they didn't um also do things like you know paintings which would be today you know this is a the way you've got whether somebody's gonna say you know this is going to be a rembrandt and

but here you've got a uh a mr i don't know and an abdul rahman something blah blah blah and you know it's not like that in that way so i felt they missed that boat yeah no i i see what you mean um do you think it could be because art was ah and creative arts in general were seen to be serving a purpose rather than being of value in of themselves um i i uh i remember reading

some english poetry uh which in which uh i'm trying to from the exact verse now but i mean it basically goes along the lines of coach that you know the art is that that truth which is being which has become manifest without it being said that you know there are deeper things that you understand about the human condition from you know artistic whether it's from a

decorative piece whether it's from uh a play whether it's from a story whether it's from literature whether it's from whatever so for example for example uh if we take shakespearean is as an example right what is hamlet about hamlet isn't really about a guy you know uh you know pissed off that is killed his dad and take you know taking his mom right it's it's it's about uh [Music] it's an existential crisis of what the heck what is reality am i imagining these things is this really happening

what am i supposed to do about it the whole world is going on as if nothing has happened you know they're more fundamental questions about the nature of understanding and the nature of being or for example again in shakespeare othello you know othello othello is not really about a black slave becoming king it's about the destruction of who uh destructive um aspects of human emotions such as jealousy and lies and such and how easily human beings can be

you know um uh deceived and you know and ruined ruined by these things you know and you know and just to go back to what they see context about this you we must have all heard kawali's you know [Music] you were going to go to you know the desi versions of these i don't know if you've seen the i've seen heather which is uh

[Music] executed it was like wow yeah soul stirring but the fact remains that the general concept is wasn't you know it's a story that was written in elizabeth yeah it's just been adapted and it's been adapted well and brilliantly and to the idiom of aid of india you know headed being set in kashmir being set in mumbai underworld which is othello has been set in you know the cast

uh driven areas of the you know while badlands would be hard or whatever you know and but those and but those stories whilst the idiom that we're seeing them in in um fundamentally there were there were stories which had a universal truth right okay archetypal kind of truth yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so what what my point was was that is is it that yeah i mean and what i was saying about khawali's was that in hawali's you

those who don't know should know that is from hyderabad where they appreciate actual actual [Laughter] you almost get this kind of you know what has been said hits you on a kind of real you know like a gut punch level you know when you uh

i mean yeah i don't know if you've ever had that kind of experience it got punched but yeah you know what i'm trying to get at you know i'm trying to get out that you know you know something touches uh your emotions it did actually i did it you know when when the gyms shut down [Laughter] it was like that that's what it was yeah i mean a lot that locked down life is uh starting to really great on me man seriously

it's really grating on me i'm taking the piece of man i i don't know how long they're gonna go on with this but at least open the gyms god damn it but yeah if for god's sake someone think of the gems the gyms for god's sake you know you know digressing what do you think of this new uh crazy uh this new amazing tactic of anybody who's been traveling [Laughter] like lock em up for ten years i mean it's like isn't that the same as like one kilo of heroin

ah okay well on the bright side since you've admitted it you're actually gonna get a third off the ten years [Laughter] not that i condone that kind of behavior this is facetious comments before anybody starts you know saying anything you're saying you can get morphine in me how else do you think the anesthetist works it's like yellow yellow [Laughter] um um but um no i mean

but you know these are kind of the color things that they they're doing in it they have to you know they've been copied their pants down with the whole chronovirus thing right repeatedly [Laughter]

this is the problem people have been caught with their pants down yeah and it's like i don't know how this could have happened really i could have told you about three months ago what exactly was going to happen yeah do you know what i mean you don't need to have a degree in astrophysics or biology to be able to tell having said that okay time for a rant right um what is it with muslims and conspiracy theories right what is it yeah what is it that now suddenly everybody who's you know read something on the internet yeah now turns out it says oh bro the vaccine yeah

it's all about depopulation yeah they're all trying to kill us off here so don't take it and you're kind of like so by not taking it you're now more likely to die and so you will now fulfill the custody seriously man the minute i hear your who decides to share i feel like i need to throw up yeah seriously you know if you know if religion

is the last refuge of the scoundrel yeah then conspiracy theories are the last refuge of the idiot eloquently said dark so eloquently that's it is true i think now though you know when um chronovirus began as opposed to now i think now it's kind of uh uh it's very clear that you know now people know so many people who've died and had it and and they've kind of realized that well there's a reality to it that they're all obsessed about all right oh it's the vaccine

oh look it changes your uh your dna it does this it does that it's like a sale yeah what exactly did you learn when you were like you should be grateful if it's going to change your dna yeah then you've got yeah exactly yeah it's got some hope i mean you know you know it it might massively you know improve the intellectual ability that you have you obviously smoked way with gander in the in your teams tell me doc you know with these uh vaccines i know you've got the the top competing uh you know

versions right uh with now the variants that they're saying like the south african variant variant or the kent variant or the you know the latin american variant is it because i've read somewhere it said well the oxford one or one of them it said was only ten percent effective yeah so so when it comes to the vaccines the vaccines all have not all of them but they all have slightly different um methods of action right uh the fives are one for example uh was a messenger rna vaccine yeah the oxford i always just think of fisa

for the for the good contribution to you yeah exactly you know you know what this has actually been used as a tactic that if you trust it for that then you should trust it for this yeah you know you can't argue against the lead this is what when when they get me with the leela i'm like you know what point point if we can keep you up for those things it can keep you going for life there you go exactly exactly right right um the the thing with the oxford vaccine i mean by the way the modern vaccine i think

it's quite similar to the pfizer as well okay um i don't know exactly how the russian one works i don't trust anything to be honest when it comes to the russians i know the indian vaccine the indian vaccine is basically a copy of the oxford astrazeneca vaccine it's basically a problem okay um the thing with the oxford vaccine is that it's a very it's a very it's a traditional mold uh people who i know we have friends who are who have done genomics i'm sure they can go into this in uh better detail but as far as i understand it they're more traditional looking at the uh the

the uh part of the protein of the you know mimicking part of the protein of the virus to mimic it so that the immune response is generated so that when the real virus comes along your body can deal with it right now um so that's a very traditional way of approaching you know vaccine production and formulation the problem with it is that it you've all you're limited yourself you know it's like you've made a lock and a key right and

you know now the keys changed yeah so now if the key is now now what this is the thing yeah well you've got the other vaccines haven't you you've got the other would they still work well the other vaccine as i said they work differently as uh okay to it's a crap analogy i'm gonna calm down keep going with it yeah but that was quite a good analogy to be feared yeah

but you know um it's with the fisa one it's as if basically the the lock is being changed so whatever key come uh you know it will work with that lock okay right okay so the the lock or the key being the the vaccine and which is the just to understand right so you're saying that the key is the vaccine and the lock is the coronavirus

what i'm saying is that the key is the the virus okay and the lock is your immune system oh right okay good thing you explained that yeah all right so you know what's happening is that the change that uh has a um this is uh it's a drink it's a drink just in case people are like yeah but sorry carry on yeah you know

second nature right so yeah okay um so yeah i mean time will tell let's see how it goes it's still going to afford some protection even if they say oh 10 protection yeah okay but what if it even if it doesn't protect you what if it decreases the severity of the illness what if you know you still okay you still get it you still get corona right but it's much milder now because of that you know we haven't got any long-term data because this thing's only been around for about less than a year just about a year exactly right you know um a lot of these things are going to come

out in the wash in a couple of years time then we'll find out yeah yeah you know uh their caja you know um i'm just uh as i said um i just think the world has changed now and i just don't think that we will ever go back to living but the world changed it doesn't necessarily mean doom and gloom in the sense that look humans you know no matter what the situation human beings what they do best is kind of thrive isn't it so it's yeah they adapt and then ultimately thrive

one way or the other no no i agree but what i'm uh again the reason that i'm saying it i mean you could say what's the point saying that well because you know human beings always gonna adapt will always survive whatever the situation is well at least if you if you know that that's that's what's going to happen if you are waiting for a mythical you know uh past you know to come back yeah like a lot of our um shall we say extremist brethren you know seem to think of you know and you know a past golden age we can go back to you yeah

right you know it's uh it's you know as long as you understand that things never gonna happen yeah then that's fine yeah you know it's not gonna happen so you're gonna adapt but if you still stick to nay this is what is going to happen right we're going to go back to the way we were and you know go around to ayanappa and on holiday and you know have cheap flights and you know not have to spend too grounded quality

[Laughter] speaking of speaking of a glorious past and and this kind of romanticized nostalgia it brings us to you know some of our brethren folks from the salafia da'awa and and amongst them somebody who's recently parted ways believe it or not people are belowed

just a brief touch upon this what are your views on all of this man you know yes this new uh video this kind of uh his confessions the journey up until the you know there's a lot there to uh and and it links with this this vision of a kind of having a romanticized and fakeness a false sense of nostalgia yeah i mean i mean that uh uh that's a good segue i'm actually trying to start wondering to himself how is he gonna segue into this

[Laughter] but no it's um so uh for those who don't know which i i doubt with many but for those who don't know yes uh was someone who was very active uh in the salafi dawa the 90s was someone who studied at madina university who did by his admission did well he knew he he knew the updater that that was being taught that was often disparatingly called wahhabi

or nutsd they referred to it as salafi or atheria for example and he and you know he then moved back to the states and he's been on a and just just to kind of give a little uh a certain point he's i believe one of the first uh graduates of the of medina university to return to the west yeah he's amongst the the first uh if not the first but amongst the first two i mean he's amongst the first and he is definitely the first to have come back with the master's degree so the other medina university graduates

who came back uh came back with you know the equivalent of a bachelor's right he was the first to come back with a master's and he had been offered a phd but due to the post-9 11 climber had felt that it would be more beneficial for him to come back to the us and instead did his phd at yale instead right hence dr yasser now he seems to have gone on a uh as we as we know uh both of us the truth

will set you free yeah and you absolutely that's why my barrister always speaks the truth yeah and uh you know that you know you rather you'd rather be broken by the truth then be uh fixed with it by a lie you know this is something this is something that our teacher tomato tomato

this is something our teacher has said i wanna uh we'll come back to shakespeare well i wanna speak a bit about sheikh siddique val as well later on in the whole yeah that's a that's a quote mutual teacher by the way is dr martijn somebody who i speak very highly of he's a teacher to me as well and one of the most senior uh ulama within the uk although uh you know unfortunately very under appreciated but yeah so yeah um but anyway so when he when he finally actually started

like expanding his horizons outside of the medina library yeah with the university university library and started looking at texts he started seeing that you know basically they've been you know they had all been sold you know a bunch of lies really it's not a bunch of lies i've heavily romanticized version of the wahhabi movement you know without without the romance yeah without the romance except except they're screwing over the ummah if that's right

yeah yeah you know you know deborah if you want to call it you know um so uh the um and so he he's pretty you know he has slowly and slowly and slowly kind of you know uh i mean and it might be very difficult for him because i mean you know uh when your livelihoods based on this as well yeah um you know propagating this power and you've been you've been like a uh keen listener to sharehouse locally back from the heydays coming yeah for whatever mean so you're somebody who's really followed his journey along the way yeah

i mean and and in fact in a sense i too have been on that journey although you know i'm not giving any props to myself i came to the same conclusions maybe five six years ago you know or maybe or maybe longer actually when did when were you doing the arabic class when was topic that was uh the online online yeah you're online arabic 2012 2012 yeah 2012.

yeah yeah it was around that time that i got that realization right because i remember that time yeah the whole and learning switching to maliki ferc and the whole thing yeah yeah yeah yeah and um you know uh and so what's happened is that he has realized that correctly that yes there may be a humbly uh athari alfreda right that is more literalist than the actual the uh and the maturities and obviously much more than the muntazila

right yeah but all you know definitely with the actualities and the maturities anyway definitely comes under the realms of atlas right whilst the najdi dawa is the extreme end of an extreme end of humbly thought right that that even when they uh quote even tamiya and

they're not even doing them justice because they're not even really saying the whole uh story so for example for example that even so he's in this long three-hour video where he says that i'm going to talk about this now i'm never going to talk about it again and if you guys if you guys want to refute me you can refute me as being someone who's misguided or whatever but i've left it that's it and i'm off yeah okay

you know what this just on that this kind of uh i don't know like baby boy kind of tantrum of like okay i'm looking you know that's it now wassalam on the day of judgement we're gonna do this you know like i don't i find these kind of little fits or tantrums that people throw to be so immature like i think look you know if you're going to discuss things you're going to discuss them if you're not you're not yeah but yeah but then if you're not going to discover that's a very good point he doesn't want to discuss it he wants to set out his position and say look this is my position right this is what i've got to right and i'm not entertaining

anything sure right so what's what's the disposition yeah so so he gave the example of uh evitamia in writing in one of his books asking of assistance from the dead right i'm talking about how that it's haram okay and how even even though some people have the tajiroba you know the experience that it works it would still be haram

he then talks about how he um uh had this debate with someone who uh you know yeah debate with someone about this and you know they differ and you know this it's one of the times when he gets imprisoned right a similar situation occurs three hundred four hundred years later with muhammadin abdulwahab where he comes across people doing iskaraka what does he do the feed cuts their heads up

yeah okay look at what even tamiya is doing look at what muhammad what happens to him yeah yeah you uh even even take me and say well i don't think it's right to do it but someone else can have another opinion but i still don't think it's right but i can see why people might do it yeah right on the other hand is basically isis yes i mean muhammad abdul wahab is in essence just a bedouin you know he's like somebody who and and i think that factor as well you know bringing that factoring that in

is important to understand because it's the mindset he's not ibn tamiya i mean even though you know obviously there's many things of his that i've critiqued and criticized but he wasn't he wasn't a bedouin he wasn't some you know he grew up very kind of among civilization and he didn't just live in a desert um and and i think that does because when you're detached from greater civilization and greater society you just live in your own bubble and it's like well these people are all you know the ottomans are all uh kuffar or

my only kind of counter to that would be wasn't his own father and his own brother uh uh only in their own right yeah i mean they were even muhammad ibn abdul wahab was i'm not saying he was uh he knew nothing about islam he obviously in his right may have felt he was an islam um he did do the studies like they studied they studied all these things and in their own kind of like a bit of humbly fear and humbly stuff and they did all of that and obviously some may have been

more talented than others but i don't think that was um it was removed from that bedouin kind of lifestyle like the way you know in mauritania you've got still people live a very bedouin bedouin-esque kind of lifestyle but they still study a lot so yeah so i think it was still you know i'm not saying he was uh illiterate or didn't really know anything about islam obviously he did but his version was just messed up yeah yeah so i think it's uh you know what yes he's done is what a lot of other people have done maybe quietly he's kind he's a high-profile celebrity because

he spent you know decades propagating it right you know that uh dawah but he's now woken up and snot the coffee you know and realize what it is and and you can say uh that you know while you know uh if you're gonna put these things out there then you should be prepared for some pushback and you should be prepared for people to try and discuss and with you and you kind of say well i'm not talking about i'm taking my toys and going home but then on the other hand he's see he's like i'm not saying this to promote a discussion i'm saying this to say this is my

position to settle not to stir yeah yeah this is the set where i am if you if you are going to now go and refute me and you want go ahead bismillah this is one thing actually i must say that or i've always had an issue with right uh even you know even when i was firmly a card carrying member of the selfie club right right uh was the insistence on getting the other guy to agree with you even when it was an opinion which selfie scholars themselves

held right an example of this would be that uh the uh uh in saudi uh the scholars of saudi arabia mean et cetera they said that nepal was watching right now you might think okay so you've got selfies but you know everybody agrees that that's what they are right there's nobody's turning around saying that they're not

right but the amount but the amount of debates that i used to see where people will sit and argue this point through the cows come home and i would sit there going look the one guy who said there is a selfie alive and the other time you say in the salafi island you just take what you think is the best uh you know that settles in your heart we're not even talking about madhav and differing opinions and under lucy schools and iraqi schools and shafi's and maliki we're not even talking about that we're talking about two three people yeah but they still couldn't they there was this

absolute insistence yeah that no the niqab is watching and shaykh al-ghani is wrong and it's kind of like you know what is this what is this this control freak i've i've i've heard you talk about this control freak amongst the bundys for example uh because i know you have experience with them uh from your studies in karachi and in minority time and stuff like that you know this you know this is something that is

was endemic to salafist even to this day now in this day now i mean this dogmatism is a disease yeah and i just don't understand it and um i'm sorry to say actually it's uh i suppose uh uh now that i think about it maybe i'm being a bit harsh on the selfies i think maybe it's within all of the different groups within the uh within muslims yeah 100 i mean religion institutionalized religion brings with it you see it requires

uh blindly submitting to the institution that that you're going to see that and some more do it more than others so even though the selefia promote a kind of rebellious outspokenness in the sense that they say criticize all the methods ask why ask for the leel ask for the you know so from one hand they're very outspoken about challenging authority um and you know they themselves deny any kind of authority you know your mother doesn't mean anything this doesn't mean anything it's only quran sunnah nobody has the

final say except kitab sunnah but then internally they are exactly the same when it comes to their own messiah you know it's only going to be what well sheikh bin bas said this elite club and that club so far you know whatever it kind of got settled with we will settle with so yeah i mean i don't think they um but even with sufi's you're going to find it you know with the infighting and this study against that tariqa but i feel that some places do it some groups do it more than others that's all like they just you know all about that and the dogmatists are the worst you know these um the selfies the

anybody that kind of dogmatism because because unfortunately because unfortunately i seem to have seen i seem to see it a little bit among some of the maliki's as well some of the ones who are uh very kind of yeah yeah which is it's not a problem per se but it's the same thing yeah yeah i was just surprised to see it that's all i was just surprised to see it and it just made me think well you know maybe it is as you say just a function of religion yeah because rather than rather than

a function of a specific group yeah because you know i wasn't surprised to see it because i because to me you know unfortunately i feel that many religiously hardline okay remove hardline but people who are very religiously practicing they're obviously a small percentage of muslims but out of them many are kind of very weird people they're not like you're socially normal people they usually have like oddities about them and they're like socially a bit weird and so

it doesn't surprise me that you see institutionalized religion draws to it these people who are a bit socially autistic because they need rigorous structure in life and they find that really harsh rules give them that structure so they find themselves gravitating towards you know very clear this is like they need to be told micromanage they need to be micromanaged like on everything and when they're told look um so so the maliki must have this obviously it's incredibly cool and awesome but over the centuries you know it's been no stranger to institutionalization than

any other matthab and and you're going to have these people who just happen to be maliki today let's say like they're born in the maliki countries and and even though they have maliki fit but they will be that no real no i mean there's no real difference between them and whether somebody is from pakistan as a hardline theobandi or somebody apart from the fairly little differences but the mentality the attitudes are the same kind of thing it's like no nobody's allowed to disagree nobody's allowed to you know they uh and with the maliki mother it's so difficult for them to do it as well but they still

still insist yeah you know um i mean it's interesting that he he finds he finds akida so uh fascinating in general yesterday you know because um it's uh

it's a difficult subject to grab your get your head around i mean even when i am uh you know i've been discussing you know certain aspects of a basic aquita with my now teenage sons mashallah yeah um you know it takes a while to sit and explain and this time the other and you do think to yourself you know is all this detail necessary all you need to know is that

god exists god is to be worshiped god is active in the world doing what he does and that he has sent messengers and and that's the way that he communicates with us thank you that that's just sugar and chicken yeah no no absolutely my my only worry is my only worry with that approach though because i thought about this is i don't i don't i don't want it to diminish the study of god you

see but i'll tell you about that because you see i because i totally you know i reflect your sentiments yeah to me iman there is a distinction between iman faith and creed and akida so iman so an akita very rightly so is from this complicated thing whereas iman is just from a sense of you know a surety and and to me the iman is what allah or his messenger taught which was just simple that look you believe in allah you believe in that

the world doesn't you know life doesn't stop here that there is a continuity of life you believe allah is ultimately in control uh and and you know you you you pray to to god now there's that bond ultimately there's just that as far as god and obviously that he sent revelation and things like this but that's it's very simple a man to believe this is iman now you see as to akida this creed and this this many points and this 200 and whatever or 167 points and this you know now we're going to discuss all

of these and could a a woman be a prophet could a man be a prophet you know what is what all these things sure look if you want to this is theology this is a study of like you know of theological philosophy it's you know philosophizing over the nature of god and this aqueduct for people who want to do it that's you know why not you know you want to study philosophy you want to study theology you want to study these masa i don't say to people be ignorant you know especially students of of knowledge i wouldn't want them to be ignorant of these issues i would want

them to know what the asha ira says what philosophers say they should know this stuff if if that's their forte if that's the arena they're embarking on but is this what we need to teach children is this what we need to teach people you know generally the masses you need to teach them oh this is how you know iman works in this way you have to believe these things about god in this way he has these particular sifat he doesn't have these he has this i just find it like i don't know to me it's just not natural yeah but okay uh to play the opposite

advocate right of course of course uh um if you do not do that then are are people not liable to be misled expand on misled so for example when did a lot of these creeds right or a lot of these uh formulations that we come across develop historically they developed when there was conflict or not conflict but there was dialogue at least

you know or confrontational dialogue with other religions or other viewpoints other philosophies you know for example you know the muta khalimin who believes that you know the world had always existed and will always exist uh you know things like that or whether we're talking about the christians and the trinity uh you know and or you know for example you know for example yeah if you have uh i mean i know your uh daughters are what eight and six something like that now i think the primary school aren't they yeah yeah primary school eight and six six here nine nine six yeah okay

the reason the reason i say that is because that was around the first time that my sons asked me why is islam the correct religion right and i understood that the only way for me to answer that was to say was to talk about the other religions and how the other religions didn't make sense and because they didn't make sense and this did this was i mean you could say it's child like logic well of course it's childlike logic i'm teaching it to a child right whilst my

anyway this is what at that age that's what they they you know they were the kind of questions that they'd ask i answered them they seem to take it on board then you know they get older there are you know teenage years and they're at school and they're saying that you know the other muslim kids who are at school so you know some to some of them they're just atheists they don't believe anything because they just think that all religion is just rubbish and you know it's all just man-made and it's all this because they have not been given any firm grounding in belief not necessarily islam not five praying five times a day

fasting ramadan or zakat or whatever there's one there's one lad he's the right idiot right as far as i'm concerned anyway his parents are allegedly selfies his son their son goes to a school in nearby um same school as my son right and uh he fasts and he will pray but when asked he says i don't believe there's a god okay this is the kid or not the person the kid the kid the kid right the parents have no idea because if the

parent you can imagine what their parents would do yeah they found their kid was like right so it's like and become abu bakr al-baghdadi overnight yeah exactly exactly right you know or at least the chapels would come out if nothing else yeah um but i was i was like but when he's at school why is he still fasting when he's at school if he doesn't believe there's god if he doesn't believe in islam then why is he fasting when he's at school he should be eating surely right no he still doesn't and i anyway it just made me think to myself if you

haven't given them some grounding enough either right um then how i and some understanding as to why you believe this religion to be the correct religion and you follow it then i you know aren't just setting yourself up for an epidemic of uh you know atheism and uh or at the very least uh confusion see that's interesting but i you see i

i think okay let's let's follow that train of thought here so really i understand telling children about let's say um let's say they know that we are muslim yes so they know we are muslim we believe in allah believe in the prophet muhammad sallallahu alaihi we believe in the quran let's say they know these kind of very simple things um but a question like why are we muslim you know like if a child asks let's say the parent why are we muslim why aren't we christian for example and fair enough

like you could just say look because first of all this is how we are and you know there are people out there who are christians there are people out out there like i mean so i think there's two ways of going about this one is to say and this is although much you know kids haven't asked me this but if they did this is how i think i would approach it in the sense that look that there are different people with different faiths now we are muslim and this is what we kind of believe i i personally wouldn't do it so much in the sense of uh i i swear i suppose i could say if they ask that look they believe this and kind

of maybe at a child level show that to be like you're saying you know they believe that jesus is also the son of god and so on and but you see as opposed to pitting it against that because first of all i don't think the threat from a religious perspective is other religions you know if i'm going to be honest here okay so atheism yeah exactly exactly so this is the point i was gonna come to because i think if we're gonna be fair islam has kind of won that war you know like that kind of metaphorically speaking that it's

um you know islam is on top of that league of world faiths in terms of reason you know people can criticize religions but out of the six major world faiths or whatever you know that they teach in re and stuff that islam is the one that is at least most consistent with reason it's not you know so it's not i don't see that threat the threat it does face is through atheism and that's religions as a whole and especially islam as well um so in that sense i would see it more

about trying to speak about like let's just say god but not in a technical sense but just in a sense that look because about saying that look god is there he's ultimately made everything and even though some people don't you know because we can't see him they are not sure you know maybe they they don't believe in him because they can't see him but he still sees them and he still listens to them and he's still maybe just coming at it from that angle to children um because ultimately i do feel that you know this connection is really just about

that kind of uh that feel with god that kind of real feel that it's experiential i feel most people who believe in god truly like if you went anywhere in the world if they were being honest either they've never thought about it given a second thought or if they did and they were honest they're not going to say you know i believe in god because of the teleological argument or the you know cosmological argument or aristotle argued this it's just going to be because they feel that they have experienced the hand of god in their lives at work like this is most people would feel that you know god has kind of

and and i know this obviously it does bring up other questions about suffering and so on but still people do feel that i don't know your how i i i mean i just find that you'll be very if you're going to rely on an experiential feeling right then you know that's you're pretty much kind of just saying meh you know you're kind of just saying well some people feel a connection and that's why they believe in god you might not feel the connection i know a guy

muslim well i mean i wouldn't i wouldn't set it down like that okay okay okay let me give an example i know i know a guy or a muslim family uh was was quite practicing you know used to go on uh you know courses and conferences and this time the other you know had uh met you that we that we both know um and things like that and then at some point something happened to him when he started doubting that the quran was from god right and then he started looking at the life of the prophet

the seed of the prophet and instead of seeing you know what we see as the rasool he sees a warlord yeah who just basically changed the career to fit whatever he wanted to right whatever he wanted okay and i uh and so he became an atheist now he's not happy about that he doesn't like that that he's become an atheist yeah he doesn't like it he says i wish i believed i wish i believed my life would be so much easier i'd understand what i'm supposed to do i

don't understand and this not the other but i just don't even though he had got to um i i i wouldn't say he'd become an alien no that would be wrong but he was definitely learning in islamic sciences okay he'd got he had got to the stage where he had you know studied certain you know a certain amount yeah he knew enough of the syrah he was a clever blogger he's a doctor as well right he has studied you know the basics of i i think it was a uh i share the update but i can't remember off top of my head now but i think that's what it was

right um he'd been on uh conferences that have been organized by the daytona uh college and their affiliates right had been to places like morocco had been on hajj right had been on umar so this was a person who was practicing i told him when you went on hajj do you feel anything he goes didn't feel the thing didn't feel fear fair enough okay which uh anyway and uh so yeah so how do you then you know i

how do you then approach an individual who says look i want to believe but i just don't i just look at this book and i don't see it's from god and i look at this man and i don't see he's from god fine how yeah and so and therefore i don't believe there is a god at all see now that's the thing right there you see how i deal with these things is i would say momentarily let's let's just put islam aside let's put you know you're saying the quran you're saying what you've read

about the seerah let's put that all aside fine you don't believe in these things you don't believe in them you see to me the question is not these things as a beginning point the question is always that the ultimate question is just god and you will find that you know ultimately most people do not have a problem with god most people it's only the twisted things that have come along the way that have led them away from god that has kind of like made it too murky for them

but ultim if if we focus on god himself which is really what ultimately the message is all about it's just about that god is just know that that in fact they say was the first command imperative command to believers in the quran that look just know this so if the person says okay god fair enough that is a discussion and you know i feel that in in this day and age the the the road that ultimately

leads back to god is this of consciousness but but i mean that's a i know that's an entire discussion in itself but i feel that these are the topics you know the thing about a person saying look i i've got a problem with the prophet muhammed because you know he was a warlord or he was you know he he fought wars or he did this or he did that and uh fine we can discuss all of that and you know there will be answers even if you you know ali you know this be they will be answers i i've said myself that you know if people bring me any any

single you know catechist cataclysmically problematic issue of islam you know i will er and i'm not i don't claim to be somebody of something but i will answer it you know but the point is that look it's not these are not these are secondary tertiary issues they can be handled the real point is god that have we got a problem with god and those examples okay so so so then if he says i don't believe in a god because i don't see him i'd you know science explains everything that uh occurs explains why uh you know how

the big bang happened explains evolution explains our genes you know um there is there is no evidence for a creator so okay that's good now now we're on track we say okay now up buckle down no because look the things you've said now because first of all you know in the back of your mind one has to understand is this person ultimately coming from an emotional angle or are they ultimately coming from some kind of reasoned angle if it's emotional

it will be difficult to break through on many occasions it needs time for them to heal because people who've suffered a tough time in life or with muslims or these kind of things are you know it's sometimes difficult for them i was just one moment i'm just checking um uh it's no i just thought that the feed was got got interrupted but no i don't think so um all right let me just bring yes so okay emotional thing aside we're just looking so now we're looking at these questions that let's say these are genuine these are

the problems like you've said look there's evolution now first of all there's no problem with evolution and islam but okay so okay i don't really see that so as a problem you said look there's things like science explains it today this dna there's uh genes there's uh you know science has explained all these things and i don't see god so from those perspectives you say you know this is now now we'll enjoy this conversation they say well look even from a scientific perspective looking at dna you see this whole

thing when we're exploring it the fact that now it's being understood that this is information you know this whole concept of uh bit preceding it because for it to emerge it required that information and information by its nature is intelligible so this in and of itself today has caused a lot of you know there's this huge debate about now well hmm the more we're understanding the cosmos we're realizing this nature of programming and we're realizing this nature of

information being so key right down to the level of dna and information has to then have preceded matter so you see because information is intelligible it's brought so this is a philosophical you know the it uh sorry the bit preceding the it but okay put that aside in addition to that right this thing this is where i said consciousness this is what nitro boosts you know people straight back towards god in this day and age whether they like it you know

uh allah could him you know it's like uh even though some people don't want to but consciousness how do we understand this because what is this because i ultimately feel that there is you know consciousness is out there and it is ultimately connected and then ultimately connected from there to god but i you see it is through but you presuppose that there is a god above you sure sure but let's just go to consciousness alone with these people how do they how do how do we explain that

well what is consciousness exactly consciousness is just a a function of biology it's just a function of the way the brain works so how is it not in all the other brains maybe it is we just found community no it's not it's i mean through through all the scientific data that we have that it wouldn't you see it doesn't to say okay now consciousness is a stream so obviously it's used this word is used in so many different things so just to be clear i'm not talking about like when this is he conscious as in is he awake obviously that

does exist that level of consciousness does exist in animals and there is a a kind of spectrum so there's some animals that are self-aware so elephants and so on but consciousness to our level where we can understand the concept of self this and we can see this whole thing of where we can uh look into the future where we can philosophize where we can this does not exist in any of the species in fact you know i mean okay there's some debate now recently was there a low level of consciousness as in lower than us but higher than primates in neanderthals

but generally they don't even feel in any other hominin species the concept of art the concept of appreciation language these things are very recent phenomenons with the modern uh you know modern homo sapiens not really so so that's just a consequence of evolution we've now just got to that okay excellent no so so okay excellent so when we say it's a purpose consequence of evolution why so and how so does this because if you're saying this by chance right okay so by chance but with nothing else having a response there are a hundred billion galaxies

that exist each of these 100 billion galaxies has a hundred million exactly and we only know that i i i i of each of these there are multiple planets so therefore it is statistically possible that these can conditions can occur spontaneously and that's what's happened here exactly that is my point that look we know these things only because we're conscious you know these statistics these things you're saying what is consciousness you know this argument that consciousness is just in the brain scientifically we

cannot prove that till date they cannot prove there are no neural correlates of consciousness in the brain despite so you know having made huge advances in then how does that then how is it that i make people unconscious with drugs so you see here people are mixing up something very simply so this is a handset and it receives a signal yes so it receives a signal the signal is not in the handset but by the signal it can do many things if i remove the battery or if i put it on low

power mode or airplane mode it will not receive the signal and it will go out but that doesn't mean that the battery was what was providing the signal so in a very similar way you can do things to the hypothalamus you can do things to all of this then you know give certain treatments what proof do you have the signal is coming right that no people are not conscious when you put them under yeah okay fine but when they are conscious yeah and you say that consciousness is outside of the human brain and they said that we are receivers yeah or a signal what evidence do you have for that signal so plenty of evidence now if for example

there's apart from just the whole philosophizing of it i've often referred to a book called uh life beyond consciousness or i i've shown it in my monday night i've got it just over there by one of the leading cardiologists in the world uh vim uh pamel now he uh i think from the netherlands but he he's done so much research to show people who've gone under cardiac arrest whilst in hospital and then he's spoken of the kind of experiences post uh you know that momentary death and their experiences those who do report them when they come back

but the interesting thing is with graphs and charts and statistics he will demonstrate that the brain is dead you see they're not actually having uh there's no brain activity going on to be reflecting what they're experiencing so he highlights the and argues for non-local consciousness obviously there's many other people prior to him and you know in different disciplines okay as someone who's not a neurophysicist right um or a neurobiologist i can already see a hole in the heart right and the hole in the argument is the phenomenon which occurs

with intensive care patients now intensive care patients who have been sedated for a period of time say seven eight days whilst they're on a ventilator due to coverage or whatever it may be right who then spend then another extended period uh you know off the ventilator you know awake talking whatever you know uh once they get discharged they will have altered memories of the times after they were brought back to consciousness

and there is this is well-known phenomenon right but there is no but the brain doesn't shut down in those in those cases you see we're talking about cardiac arrest where the heart stops pumping and he shows okay and you have for anything between one minute to whatever the brain seizes and he shows this on the charts that even when the brain does fire up again it takes up to 60 seconds for it to get all active now then the obviously he highlights things like the overlap of the phenomenon that they experience and how regardless of

race religion gender whatever it's incredibly similar what people experience now obviously this is still i get the fact this isn't like handing you you know saying look here's the evidence but it is some evidence that aside physicists many physicists who study the cosmos and study um you know study um you know all the the the kind of forces of physics and things like that and and the different dimensions amongst them several leading people have now are now currently working on a model i um professor what is it professor carr

double r at the end who was a junior to stephen hawkings when i was at his lecture and he was uh he's working on a model which he's called the universal um i've got it written down but it's a model which i don't know if it's released yet but he said that it was you still finalizing it in which in addition to the 10 dimensions that you're going with they are proposing mind to be another consciousness to be another phenomenon if they could incorporate that so physicists and it's interesting who actually study dimensions and they go into whether it's m theory or

go into all of these things they actually are at a level where they you know they are so caught down with this little consciousness it is not something it is not just this simple thing that everyday people think that oh you know what it's just oh it's just my you know brain ticking away it's actually much more complex okay so to sum up okay let's see if if i was to take your take your arguments at face value which i'm not but no if i am yeah if i am sure so you know so you said that there is consciousness right but you've not said how that relates to

a creator god all right right okay and even if you have that i can't give everything away in one go yeah if you haven't even that and even if you then do connect it to a creator god you do not uh how do you then get how do you get that god to be fine to be uh active within the world how do you stop people being saying that there's a god he made this and then he just left it you see we haven't got to that season yet but what i what i did what i was doing

with consciousness is smashing to smithereens this fortress of arrogant impenetrable science in alleging and misunderstanding of science but it did this fortress that you know this cannot be that basically i can't see it so how does it exist and where does it exist and now highlighting will actually where physics is at now and looking at the quantum world there they are actually so roger penrose who speaks about consciousness i mean he's one of the leading mathematicians in the world and highly acclaimed he speaks about how

consciousness is picked up by the microtubules at a quantum level in the brain and it actually exists in the quantum sphere now you see where physicists are today because remember this person is speaking science this person wants people of expertise and this is what we're giving we're going we're going above the everyday evolution we're going to the top people who are experts in physics and mathematics

you see but what i would do is i would honestly what th this is my thing look my thing is not to say to people not to try because i nobody can convince anybody of anything you know i can't convince somebody that there is a god my point is to simply plan me not convinced no but what i can do is plant some seeds yeah so i am telling them that look you ponder over this because ponder over the self because consciousness you pick it up from here and look allah says we will show them there are signs

whether it's in the cosmos and in yourselves if you ponder but people in the past just took this to a i'll tell you where they took it they just took it to a medical perspective because in that day and age medieval times you know this was the big thing understanding how the body works today this is going from the cosmos and the astrophysics perspective right into yourself at a quantum level once you start to see how intricate this world is you see you start to realize hmm well actually like the fact

the fact the very fact that we are made up of 99 or 90 whatever percent just nothing we are just mata is is so empty that we are ultimately just made you know that and when people learn these things as a fact from these same people scientists that they are taking facts from but it clashes with hard reality you know if i tell you you're just 99 nothing you're not even you know you just and that you're like that that can't be true and like well actually it is true this is how atoms work and now we go into the atom how does

quantum physics work you see what you're showing them is that their sense of certainty was misplaced now the rest you see it becomes a journey that what's happened is if people can accept that they are set out on a journey to discovery which inshallah i would feel leads to god ultimately but obviously i can't say to somebody look you know like the the salafia would say you know all the other faiths say you know somebody says i don't believe in god we've got three days to convince him and we can easily convince him there's a god and if he still denies he has to be a cafe

you know it's not to me these things you can't just just convince people that there is a god there has to be this pathway this curiosity and then they will experience something as well that experience thing i feel is you know like with consciousness don't you experience that this yeah if if this is there how can this be nothing you know the fact that i can you know that these this this mind is there how can this just mean nothing it must be something i don't know yeah yeah i can see that but

somebody might turn around and say it's just your confirmation bias sure but you're looking for it so you see it but this is the problem i'm not looking for it i am realizing that yeah you know if i can this this thing out there this mind this it is beyond just matter and you know evolution the mind consciousness is actually a stumbling block for evolution from a purely evolutionary perspective because consciousness does not aid evolution in the slightest it does not aid survival in fact it can impede survival hence

animals survive much better without consciousness so you know the consciousness when they say yeah well we've just evolved it why has have you evolved it when it's actually a stumbling block you see when you have to think as opposed to act on instinct your survival rate is much better when you can just act on instinct when you start doubting things and having to you know like think on some occasions it could work better but on many occasions it allows a lot more room to be hesitant and so it's not this is another you know another rich spanner in the works that hmm you know well but yeah i just feel that you see

from a i don't think science is an impediment to god i think if you look deeply like no i mean i i i mean i don't either but i'm just as i said i'm i'm playing the devils of course of course i'm glad you are i'm glad you you know i i i you know what what someone's going to come and say you know and then and then if you're going to go okay you could call this emotional argument i don't know right but you could say well okay fine there's consciousness okay fine there's a designer well why is he designed such a crap world well he has because earthquakes happen

and tsunamis happen and kids get brain cancer and cover it happens and you know my my dad who spent 70 years going to the mosque is now dead but the drug dealer around the corner he's fine yeah how do you you know how do you you know how how do you marry those things up yeah you see now this is a um a different discussion so i i appreciate that but this discussion is a different one of a different nature so what we're discussing now is okay if

let's say there is a god let's go with if there is then why are these bad things happening like cancer and stuff like this and and to be honest that is a brilliant question and i absolutely loathe how uh muslims tend to answer it okay so muslims tend to say things like uh that their answer is like well this is a test from god and you know god and look at the good that's coming out of you i actually heard someone say and i was like horrified they said that yes you know children get cancer but you know look ultimately there's you know to cure cancer this whole

sorry hospitals and there's so many nurses and doctors who have a job because of this and you know there's a great societal good and i thought are you tell me for the love of god that you're drunk right now because that is the most preposterous thing i've heard uh you see so so so so why has god given a kid brain cancer yes so now this you see where i have been asked this question i've explained that god has not done that right so there's another power no no no no so what you have is there are obviously in the general

physical laws of nature where human beings get together they have a baby these kind of things happen where dna is replicating there is a system in place now sometimes certain things male reproduce you know and you will get you know certain things become cancerous or certain parents or certain children have been exposed to something that you know this has led to certain carcinogenic effects or they have but it is not god so it may have been that their dna was more receptive to certain things so why why hasn't why has an all loving god allowed this to happen he's seen this is happening why hasn't

he stopped it you see now this is a different question so now we've we've kind of addressed how it's happening now we're not saying well well no no you've addressed how it's happening is by denying that god is all powerful no no no by saying that god is not doing it but but people and their choices and nature is what is so for example what nature by the way what's nature yes so let's say for example in the sense that people may have chose to live in a particular area and that area is prone to earthquakes because of the tectonic plates so you may not have migrated there but your grandfather migrated there

so you as a consequence of your grandfather's choices you ended up suffering but god didn't pick you up and put you in that part of land in that part of the globe somebody made an active choice to do it and yeah but why is there the earthquake in the first place sorry no so that because now that's the nature of how tectonic plates work but then why is

[Laughter] because look the thing is this now you look at the way now this is this is a very good question why why are cells certain things allowed to you know male reproduce well because this leeway was necessary for evolution that that dna had to be given certain leeway to do things for certain obviously cellular growth to take place certain things to happen there had to be a tiny margin and but mostly

it's it's all why would there have to be a tiny margin if you've got an all-powerful god he can make it whatever situation he wants no why can't you make it that scene in the matrix where the architect says you know the first matrix we made was perfect maybe there was a matrix prior to this that was perfect but you see if you're going to allow the forces of nature to to kind of grow through developmental growth then there has to be there has to be this this man room what is this nature why is this nature

that you keep referring to forces of nature could that not just be uh replaced with the phrase will of god sure but there is an actual force that please so obviously what we're saying by the will of god is in he has allowed these forces so for example nature the fact that you have hunger is a part of the laws of nature now you will these instincts will lead you to do something they will lead to eventually trying to hunt or to do something so this there's entire forces at play which are doing things which result in developmental growth for there to be evolution i mean sorry for

evolution to play out obviously evolution is the process again so why is he made such a rubbish machine i would argue the fact that we here can even discuss this today based on our you know having intelligence having reached this level and doing these things demonstrates that it's not a rubbish machine but but you said instances has got nothing to do with evolution anyway no but it is of course no what i said to you just to be clear is that consciousness cannot be explained through the soul

evolutionary model obviously if you believe that this was the will of god that consciousness for me the understanding of consciousness was that well adam had this this was the you know the father of humanity but i would argue through the the the azbab reasons that maybe that was done through psychedelics and things like this that this is what he what triggered the ultimate kind of uh explosion the the consciousness explosion within uh homo sapiens but coming to this what i'm saying is this by no means is a crap machine but yes it's not a utopia

i would agree it is not a utopia you know it's not wow why isn't it a utopia you see but what the question here is as well what makes you think a utopia would have actually been better now i know from a perspective one could argue that look well it would mean no suffering yeah like this this is the only um but unless you can add something to that that why why why would a absolute utopia be the the ideal because when experiments have been done so for example uh universe 20 universe 25 i believe it

was called which was uh the utopia that was created for mice in the experiment right i'll bring it up as well so in that experiment when they created uh everything you could imagine that mice would ever want and that they could there's so much space and so much recreation and so much everything that was there uh you know they didn't have to fight for and everything was renewed and it capacitated up to i think 6 000 mice even though it begins with the initial uh batch of eight for four males for female and they thrive

and they do thrive but only up until a certain point a very small point contrary to what the researchers had had anticipated they thought this is going to be a garden of eden but what happens when the mice reach i think i think it may have been three thousand um which and they were capacitating i think it was up to seven thousand that's what it capacitated for it becomes highly detrimental and un immeasurably destructive so what happens is the mice lose the will to live

so the mothers the the mother the mice would started to kill their own young it's it's you know that experiment is so amazing to show that the counter effects of what people the researchers or any analysts would have anticipated you see when you provide a utility but then god could have made us programmed us so that we wouldn't be like that yeah but then you're just saying that we have no free will you see because will free will for it to thrive it needs to tap into survival survival can only work

if there is a competitive platform an evolutionary kind of struggle platform otherwise there is no survival and that's exactly what happened with these mice they saw that when there was no reason to survive they gave up on like their life remember they don't have they don't sit around like their life just meant nothing and even having more offspring they stopped mating by the way they when they reached to a certain state they became like highly asexual and they uh in fact some mice very early on just kind of became these ascetic they used to call them the um the the i forgot now the good looking mice or whatever they just lived separately and groom themselves

and refrain from any sexual activity and but the other ones also you know when it caught up because you don't have a drive to life anymore you don't feel like and i know you could say well god could just program it that you know well but then we won't have will but then it'll just be every we'll just be automatons but then you've already said that god created a machine and he's allowing the machine to play out what's up that as in the universe and the laws of physics and the laws of nature wherever sure so so therefore aren't we all

by you already negated will already you see not at a okay if you're speaking from a very meta perspective as in we didn't will ourselves into existence we didn't will that the laws of gravity take place we didn't will these things true from that meta hyper stance perspective but from a from a real world perspective for us there is willpower now true you're right we may ultimately all just be as part of this simulation and our will is really just uh you know i i have felt to be fair that this world is a kind of simulation

and ultimately the consciousness thing is like the person playing the game you know it's like we're in this game and obviously to us this game feels so real because it's so advanced isn't it it's not like our kind of games so uh but that would answer the problem of evil as well to some extent because if it was just a game it wouldn't really uh ultimately wouldn't really be that what does it mean if it's just a game and then one could say well you know but and doesn't allah say

you know uh um i create a god forget about the quran and the messenger but i'll let you off now because it's hard no i look i agree look these things are not easy questions nobody can ultimately as in seal the deal there is no you know the mankind since we've had this awakening from the axial age they've never been able to settle these debates but i feel today we have had a slight edge over those who went before us a slight edge because of the technological breakthroughs into things like the quantum world

and the cosmos it's given us a more complex nature of reality even to like uh simulation theory people who are uh you know hype understanding that actually this cosmos is just a simulation based on mathematics is that just not human arrogance or that every couple of centuries human beings think they've become enlightened like 200 years ago we had the enlightenment then 400 years ago we had the renaissance and then 100 years before that there was the reformation you know what's that uh shared in urdu

you know the the thing you know i mean they could you see it could be that today we are basing our things on certain things which in coming generations they will repeal and think well oh you know that's what they thought but now more recent technology shows us it's not the case however what we are basing it on today from a mathematical perspective whether you're looking at let's say the simulation theory if it is assimilated they're not saying as a fact it is but they're saying it's actually more probable that this cosmos is a simulation now just on that as an example you see

the way you do it is you have to reverse you have to go in reverse you have to start with let's say this was a game it was a simulation what would you look out for to show you that it actually was a simulation now when you start from that angle then you start looking out for the mathematical codes in the cosmos and then they realized oh damn actually these codes are the so it's like so they're not saying this is a fact but they're saying it's like saying well if they're just working it backwards saying okay let's say it was then what would be the clues this is

this should be clues which say x y z let's look is there x y oh [ __ ] there is actually x y z now this is how they just looking at that when whether it's quantum physics they are basing our understanding of this on actual evidence now yes in 200 years from today maybe that evidence would have better technology to have a better understanding of this but i don't think for our age we are wrong obviously we're just going by the best possible means that we have in this day and age um so yeah i i did see

but i don't think look it's not about to me this is not about convincing people that there is a god i don't think anybody can do that um i don't think anyway in my understanding but what how to convince people there was god no you see this is it people already felt there was a god but he kind of brought him away from superstition now this is the understanding because when even in the quran it asks that when you ask them even they reckon you know who okay who created the cosmos they would say look they do feel that

there is a god they didn't think that there was no god you see recently when i say so then what was the point of islam then right what was the point of sending out you see now islam came to free mankind from the shackles of superstition okay fine okay all right now uh that's that's it i know how that argument is going to go okay fine sure enough so okay look okay let me go back once okay sure why why why does ah why does the rasool need to be sent by the creator god who to people

who already believe in him right it's not that people didn't believe in god but it was that they were so shackled in their superstitions that that age the post-axial age was an age of once again obviously this is how i explain it but where the philosophers normally look at what they or anthropologists what is the axial age which was pre-jesus but probably to about 300 years bc which they say there was a kind of an awakening for about six seven hundred years in which humans started to reflect on things like consciousness

start to reflect on things like on just meaning so you so you'll get all these great uh you know the historic writers or you'll get people like confucius buddha aristotle socrates plato well they're already there but it's not written but that's setting the stage religion hadn't yet you see for religion to come about it needed this axial age first so people needed to have a this kind of conscious global conscious awakening whether they're not religions before that point

they were but not as they were yet to be laid out so this one i mean i mean historically if you look back and if you look at like the rigved or if you look at some of the earlier uh egyptian uh yeah of course manuscripts you know they're very sophisticated they're very philosophical you know and they also especially the league for example you know the ultimate reality the brahman and the atman and you know the

age when religion starts to emerge how is the post axially because it's before the time that you've just mentioned no because i said the axial age they say is about 300 bc it kind of ends so you see that there's this this kind of awakening that takes place globally it's in different parts of the world people start and and some of the rigveda thing is also ties into that because it's initially just to do with this awakening but the centuries that follow there's a a point which i would pin till obviously these things are reasonably arbitrary but i would pin two up until the arise

of islam with the prophet muhammad sallallahu alaihi sallam what happens is here faith's religions emerge like concretized religions for society as a whole so you'll get christianity will rise as an actual institut you know later on becomes institutionalized but as a religion islam christianity was there 600 years before islam yeah 500 years 500 yeah yeah of course of course but it's in this age that i'm saying okay judaism was another 1500 years earlier judaism was from before that but you see judaism this is my point

originally judaism was not like you see so if you look at the ancient judaic thought there is no concept of the afterlife there is no it was this it was more about the awakening it wasn't actually the way religions later on developed i know judaism later on they did adopt these things as other faiths did as well but initial jude the old i mean rabbinic literature will show you that the jewish torah the jewish bible doesn't really uh speak of an afterlife and most rabbis historically negated it that there was no akhira it was just about this world and and which is interesting actually

because if you tap that into which is not you know will end up digressing which if you tap that into maybe moses was akhenaten and it's interesting because that would actually reflect a huge egyptian kind of sentiment as well but so with you see whether people like it or not i've said to people whether you whether people agree with islam or not islam sealed the deal on global faith never after it was ever a global faith to arise again until our very date it hasn't even when great historians and

anthropologists people like yuval harari are interviewed like on youtube and he's asked this question can you ever envisage a world religion emerging they're very clear that no not if you mean religion as religions unless you mean like he says technology as in you know amaya samsung follower or android or my and an apple he says like that that's different but if you mean religion the way religions are they are sealed like humanity has gone beyond they've that window has closed they will never emerge again so whether people agree with islam or not the fact that it sealed the deal on global faiths is a a factual phenomenon of

anthropological history um okay well i think i have uh exercised your brain in that as much as the exercise that i did because i tried to trip you up many many times [Laughter]

i love the mental oh you know i love it honestly i i get such a kick out of it and but yeah but these are obviously and i'm really glad that you did bring this up dark and you challenged it from a devil's advocate perspective and i did see look some people in the question in the comments i was going to say we could take some quick questions if you like dark uh if you've got a bit of a few minutes uh yeah i know yeah another another 10 minutes sure so people if you post your questions i'll put them uh too dark and we'll quickly try and go over them but i think so you see some people i did read obviously they're mixed comments and some people said look you know oh you know muffy you're not

i saw some comments saying these arguments are so weak and i can do a much better job that's great if you can you know if you can but by the way i'd like to make the point that i'm not convinced by your arguments but you gave a good account of your arguments yeah [Laughter]

you're like oh you're like china china's covert test all right so yeah i mean uh but i'm you see somebody had said look you know we could do a better job and i think that's great if you can i think look this isn't about to me we have to accept something that faith is in crisis when you accept that you realize that look we cannot make people muslim we cannot make them do any you know it's not it's

out of our hands no of course what i was going to say was that there's two key elements one is this argument that you see science has sealed the deal and just to explain to people well actually recent breakthrough it shows it hasn't and the other thing is that you see none of us have ever met the prophet none of us so when people have a a very when people are upset with the prophet when people have a dislike

for the prophet sallallahu islam this is a dis they've never met him this is a dislike to a character caricature that has been somehow you've arrived at you've been given to you you know you've been taught that this is what the prophet was like he was a warlord he was somebody and you've disliked that fair enough and maybe rightly so because you know you've come across that he was a butcher and he was you know used to kill people and do these things i don't blame you what i would say is if that was my perception of the prophet i too would be in the same shoes i would think

you know i don't but if we move away you know remove some of these kind of uh sectarian blinds this kind of institutionalized coverage that's happened for so long we remove we dig a bit deeper we will find a message of the prophet and a character that is nothing like what he's been portrayed over the centuries people have exploited because obviously the prophet is such a key figure some people whether it was for example military campaigns they needed things they it's easy to justify them if that's you know the prophetic image if people needed something it's easy to show you know if people had a

problem with kuffard it's easy to show well you know oh well the prophet you know he did this he's my you know justify your actions and then people doing this century over century it has resulted in this image so i just want to highlight these two things that look there is yes you may have a problem with the prophet's character but you've never met him and is this really his character that's the question and yes there's a third element which unfortunately we can't do anything about i hope people will change is you know if the emotional thing you see many people who leave islam it's because they've been treated like

absolute garbage and trash by muslims and when they doubt islam and they ask like somebody's got a scientific question like you asked doc and they go and ask the mulvisav and the movie sab tells them off and they ask their parents appearance like slap them one and then they you know they they try and ask an imam and he says oh you deviant you this this don't ask these things and then they just yeah well i mean i agree with you i agree with you but you know

yeah right at the same time as the muslim community is failing people like that as as a whole you know personal responsibility also comes into it as well of course of course does it not yeah and people can't just turn around and say well someone saw imam did this and did that and acted like this and he was a bit of a hypocrite and he was actually doing this so therefore i now i'm not throwing the whole islam out it's like a yeah i mean i think you see what i was going to say was that

you see this that aspect that's a minor one uh of just like when you're asking questions you're proactively asking what often happens is the next layer which i was going to mention is not where you're asking but we islam is used as the justification tool by people in who kind of negatively impact so for example um to control you let's say they say well you know this is in islam anyway you're not allowed to do this or let's say it was to always islam is only used whenever you're in trouble

basically and that this is why i say to people look don't have this attitude towards your kids where you use you know like allah's gonna do like it's always whenever allah is mentioned he's just this is to bring is it just means trouble because that as well it's problematic because what happens is people are not so rational so they just reach a level where they say you know what our effort you know i've had enough now you know yeah you're being everything you know islam islam islam islam you know it's like you've so this this thing like that category of people are not seeking answers they're just people who get fed up with it being

and it's not right it's just as a control technique it's shoved down the kind of throats and saying well every time somebody wants to control them they just say yeah in islam it says you know you you can't wear jeans in islam it's haram you know you can't do this it's maybe maybe in our age right in the 90s it was like that do you really think it's like that now i think that's a good question um when you were growing up fine right you know in the mid-90s not now yeah okay so this argument probably applies more so to people

probably still like uh maybe my age maybe a bit younger but that batch of people who now as they've grown independent uh have just said you know okay i couldn't do it when i was with my parents but now here's a big you know fu2 religion now that i live on my own but to young like let's say generation or whatever the the younger like teenagers today you're right i don't think uh islam is as much i think with some people it might be when it comes to you know but not as much you're right it's definitely not as much so with them it might just be the you

know when they hear so for example people are told that this is how we must treat so for example we must kill the apostate now this might be something that they hear and think well you know and then they hear a ton of things not just this one thing they we must kill gays we must kill this we must kill them and they think yeah you know this this is one backwards piece of you know like uh so it just puts them off i think that's probably more so true but again it's less than it was when we were younger i mean i can again say that all right

okay maybe not 90s but in the early 2000s yeah that kind of harsh that kind of what we were mentioning before dogmatist type of you know uh literalist and kill the apostate throw the guy off the top of the tree or whatever type of tree uh yeah it was a tree or what was it building or something yeah right that sort of stuff right then yeah but you don't really see that many people defending those positions now do you you know you're saying that you say you say that but then you've got

daniel hakigatu who's a graduate from harvard speaking about how uh people the apostle needs to be murdered and how get homosexuals deserve to be killed you've got dawa man you know massive following saying how making snowmen is shirk because it's uh you know you're making idols just idiots who have just been um empowered by the power of social media yeah but like let's let's be honest doc like you know when it comes to islam if a person was a regular muslim now they're not going to take you know

unfortunately i wish they would but they're not going to take their islam just from me like looking at me they're going to think well this guy clearly isn't my what i thought they're going to look at that okay maybe daniel hakikozu is also at a loss there because he kind of doesn't have a big beard and stuff as well but dawa man or this kind of ilk of hardline you know it's all haram haram are the unfortunate go-to people they have a huge influence on people just google stuff and they they are there straight away so you watch that you think ah okay i mean you might think it's dumb but you'll just think well you know any religion's dumb anyway so fair enough i'll just

[Laughter] i i i just don't know maybe it's just a factor of my age or what oh and may have seen too much and done too much or whatever but you know i just can't take any of these guys seriously yeah of course i mean they're just idiots i i can't even i can't even go further than that do you know what i mean it's and it's like i i often think that if you're listening to them then i'm it's part of the problem is you i'm the problem no no you i know

[Laughter] don't leave no but i mean is that like you know if you know if if some people are so stupid as to last year sorry uh when they they read and they look and they're convinced by the banality and the superficialness of garman and danny boy and whatever then surely some responsibility has to go on to you for just being a dumbass that's you know i mean i'm sorry for

falling asleep that's comes back to that argument isn't it that's the the evil you know the evolution that what's going on here how did this survive [Laughter] any questions okay guys let's take a look at your questions should ask uh put forward to doc well what's this is this stunned silence or no people are chatting but i've got to get through the chatroo as well let me just see right people um siraj sorry mufti made a poor case

[Laughter] fair enough you make a better case in the comments let's see obviously anal sex is a huge problem in society i don't know as a doc is that the case as an anaesthetist well you know they do seem to be you know the insertion of things into orifices seems to be getting more common i can only put it down to lock down borders what's what's the craziest thing you've had coming to the hospital where it's uh stuck in

where it's a pain in the in the butt but actually one from my very early days where a guy for a uh like um uh you know like you get marbles right here yeah you know you know you get like marbles right yeah but um and you get balls like that made of metal wow okay i don't know yeah yeah yeah this guy i put one besides this big about that how did that get in i don't know but he got it yeah and actually that's not a recent story that's from about 20 years ago

when i first qualified so that was then what's it got apparently they had to use baby forceps you know the ones that to pull babies out to get it out did they tell him that you know it looks like oh it's an it's an iron man [Laughter] so that's gotta be okay what are your thoughts on muhammad hijab with his views on apostate not being killed

i mean uh like i mean i i would have thought that's a no-brainer but yeah yeah i mean i didn't uh i don't believe you know are did they had issues there i don't i've never subscribed well no no i like i did once but i don't now subscribe to the theory that the apostate should be killed [Music] you know that's actually a good one for a quick uh because you came from a background which was a kind of selfie background many many many years ago um what you know if somebody could ask

why is why do you think is it first i mean is it uh important or uh to kind of learn ferc or to learn these things i know you're involved in teaching something as well doc and you've studied for a you know a good while with sheikh siddique well but is there any is there any i mean you know what's the point of all of this is it any good i mean you've got experience where you came from a background where you weren't like that you did start studying okay so i mean you know uh islamic i would actually defer to uh your interview that you did with uh rashad

uh a couple of months ago now where he talked about how learning of all the islamic sciences are all asbab really you know they're all uh a means you know you learn iraq either so that you don't make big mess-ups right you learn uh basic fit so you know how to function as a muslim right you know how to pray how to fast how to this down the other just the basics right and then if you if you are in uh that way inclined you might learn a bit of a solar flip so that you can understand well why

why is the ruling like this and why is the ruling like that right and then after that point really it's all about your connection with god right right some people get that connection with god by some simple recitation of the quran some get it by going out into the world and seeing the world and seeing them you know the beauty of creation as i would say right some get some get it in a formalized structure like a tadika some get it in another way right so um so

for so the reason why i uh felt i personally needed to study was because the the salifida was great at refuting it was great at rubbishing things and you know throwing things in the garbage it was never good at planting anything in you so you felt like an empty vessel like a big iron ball [Laughter]

who said that he went on hajj and he didn't feel anything i remember the first umrah i ever went i didn't feel anything there was nothing spiritual about it as far as i was concerned i was a selfie at the time right the second uh well or the third umrah i went i went much later uh not much later maybe 15 years later by which time i'd left uh the salafi movement by which time i was exploring you know ideas of the subwoof and the skittles and all this spirituality and i thought you know i i found it incredibly moving

going there and seeing the kaaba going there and realizing that the body of the soul was in front of me yeah and this is where he was buried and even even though there has been mass vandalism by the saudi authorities of all the historic sites that were there you know i i still felt you know you were talking about that emotional uh i felt that emotional uh connection so um so for me yes so so what i needed was structure i needed i needed that you know to go back to what rashad said i needed that

you know basics of akita so you're not messing up and thinking that god is a man sitting on the throne with two with with a shin and two right uh hands and an eye yeah and all that sort of rubbish here and you know he floats down to the atmosphere and you know and floats back up in the middle of the night right so that's what you are here is for then there's the basics of uh uh fear of how to pray how to do this how to do that the salafis who always you know go on about following the sunnah and the sunnah and the they never seem to have a good formulation of

why it was you did this down the other and they're always arguing amongst themselves as i said arguing about whether hijab is uh we're arguing where the fatiha should be prayed behind the imam or not and all this kind of stuff and you're kind of like after fourteen hundred years just don't figure out how to pray yet what kind of idiots do you yeah um uh and then and then as i said the asura was i wanted to see where they came from right and after that point um to be honest anything else that i'm uh actively reading or getting myself involved with it with is

more on the spiritual side because that's what you uh i need me personally that's what i need right and so if somebody comes to me and says do i need to be an islam to be a good muslim no of course not yeah right do you need to do you need you know could you just get up in the morning be yourself do your five salas faster ramadan give it a charity give your d as a card to hajj once in your life khalas right that's it maintain a connection with your lord end of story yeah that's it i mean i know i'm now i'm kind of torpedoing my own audience yeah

you know no no absolutely i think it's spot on what you're saying yeah yeah but it's all it's bob you know it in of itself it don't mean anything it's like in medicine we used to take mick the mecca of um we take the mick out of foreign doctors who would be able to come uh to the uk and they would be able to tell you everything about a disease say i don't know emphysema they'd be able to tell you all the signs the symptoms uh the incidence the genetic factors the physiology this time

but when you gave them a patient in respiratory failure due to their emphysema in a critical situation they have no idea what to do right what was the point of the learning yeah it was nothing right and this was the difference between um theory yeah yeah and this is the difference that you noticed within especially with rich doctors compared to you foreign doctors i'm not trying to say that our system is the best it isn't but it doesn't mean something that people still look up to it right and that is when it comes to the management of a patient right we generally we you know yeah you can ask me now

what are all the uh specific chemical structures of all the specific chemicals that i use and i've probably forgotten half of them right but i can tell you i need an emergency situation i know what the hell to do ah you're dark you know who we're calling in an emergency situation yeah look put it this way man my daughter thinks i'm a superhero okay she's eight years old but she because she said that does daddy save lives in the hospital yes he does because he works in intensive care as well oh that makes him a superhero see when

children have that admiration uh about a couple of weeks back zozo zara she my daughter she was saying something and she said i don't know was she speaking to layla or she speaks and she said well she'd ask dad and she and she said because dad is a genius and i thought wow i thought you see that's it just that's enough now from the mouth from the mouths of babes i thought that's that's it right there just freeze them in time yeah yeah so yeah why why do children have to grow up yeah answer me that one yeah why did he

create a god because because my eight-year-old daughter is absolutely perfect i've been told that when they hit teenage they're absolute terrors right how do i keep them hello that's why they have to be older you know i mean i'll just have to go through teenage boys that was fun we got to wait for the technology to catch up talk you know on subjective parenting right um saying that i heard by the time a son realizes his father was right he has a son who thinks he's wrong

i can attest by experience look at that look at that you're doing it doc you're doing it you're doing it so people all right all right so guys i see yeah people are looking at that there's so much about your fatherly advice right there so much love coming from the people here

you know what it is you're like the sun beaming out the light but he can't see its own light you see he can just benefit others with it [Laughter] are you saying i'm just full of hot gas i'm saying i'm saying you're right you're on fire dark you're on fire that's what i'm saying so people you know shukran shukran let's wrap this up unlike us uh you know

uh people doc actually has a uh an active role in society he has a job tomorrow yeah he has a real job unlike us when just as film critics knock actually works right so dark it's been awesome though shook him for taking out you yeah well exactly for allowing me on the second time

you know um i'm gonna sleep remove myself second time you you come right here you're more than welcome right so but people doc you've got a uh podcast haven't you is that still yes i do i do have a podcast the atypical anesthetist i must admit uh due to coal with pressures uh due to coal with pressures it has been a bit silent for the last couple of months uh once hopefully once things settle down a bit more in the hospital he prays um then you know i'll get a bit

more active with that uh similarly with my tech stuff and um i am teaching as uh uh mr uh mentioned it's very simple stuff it's nothing as i said i'm i'm not an islam i'm not i'm i'm just just just about an educated layman just about in the the

in order to i felt to consolidate what i had learned uh i felt that it was but it would be good for me to teach so that at least i could then so if guys do check out uh dr maj's uh podcast it's on what what is it on the podcast it's uh it's on spotify spotify oh rather you're doing it doc spotify i've still got to get all my stuff on there but it's in it's in progress people my executive task force is on it right

so it should be there so what so zara is doing here yeah i'm just waiting for her to learn how to do all the spotify stuff and get it done i i dread that i dread when they can even you know start understanding things properly and they watch some of my stuff and think what on earth is he on about i think i'll have to block them of all my own what will happen channels before that you'll get to the stage where your kids are always embarrassed about about you you can never be cool enough i i always know i thought you know as a dad i can i can pull that off you know you

never as far as they're concerned you're still you know abba or daddy you know who's to be feared and you know i i i i should ask you know quietly dad can i have another 10 pound from the suede the atm's atm yeah bank of dad yeah the bitcoin of that

there you go there you go so people you see look at all of these things these terrors we've got to look forward to yet but guys do go to spotify check out dr mudd's uh podcast the atypical anesthetist and also if you if they do want to reach out and share maybe they want to get involved in some of your lessons or they just want to kind of collab with you or just you know just reach out to you doc where's the best place to reach out facebook facebook's the best way and the name on facebook is as i've put on here doctor it's majid sheikh dr majjith isn't it yeah well people it's been awesome much love to all of

you doc absolutely you know absolutely grateful for you taking out your time thank you for allowing me back on and uh inshallah we shall meet up when lockdown uh forget the log bento i mean no after the lockdown yes yes see some of us have our upstanding members of society because you take pfizer there you go wait a minute i can get you fired

[Music] this is it doc well next time you come bring that steel ball around [Laughter] well guys have an awesome night wherever you are dark much love to you yeah so i'm going to put up my the exit page if you haven't already liked and subscribed then get the hell over there get liking get subscribing

i am going to have inshallah this week so by the weekend we should have the discord app up and running there is uh this is the special members one so it's got exclusive stuff on there i will have a trailer there's a trailer for it as well promo trailer i'll put that out there as well um she got a patreon as well i have no this is linked to the patreon members so people who want access to it will be automated via patreon or youtube membership i will also activate in the future so i'll be via that there is a separate just a uh uh a discord that is run by inaya and zebra which is

just more a a community kind of feel to that i'm not on that but i do they will share the link in the comments it's a kind of fun thing i don't know i think there might be some haters on the right but it's all it's all good people much love take care of yourself you got yourself groupies it's the love people show right it's the little people show of god guys take care of yourselves

over and over now