Consciousness & The Cognitive Revolution | Mufti Abu Layth

mr will why it's the dalai life so how are you doing shahid are you are you ethnically from malaysia are you um some from somewhere else living in malaysia i was born here but i mixed blood okay mixed race okay wow interesting come on tell us a bit of your diversity what's because you're just gonna have us guessing

well uh malay chinese indian uh okay wow okay you turned the volume right up there what was was that what like the the colonial division of the yes they were just splitting the whole world up quite quite a bit wow i you know what i envy you for all the relatives that you've got in different parts of the world and excuses you have to travel to different countries i love it so shh all right so what do you what do you do in malaysia tell us a bit about

electrical engineer logical engineer what is wow i thought logical engineer i was genuinely curious like what does a logical engineer do so okay so electrical engineer of right awesome so masha alas talk to us what are some thoughts what a if there's a question what's on your mind unleash that wisdom all the way from malaysia is it kuala lumpur by the way i know about three hours away okay unleash it on us all right uh i watch your old videos

about you know you talk about adam uh and they mentioned adam being uh min nafsin wahidah okay yes yes yes are you saying that probably uh he's the the child instead all right okay no uh right okay ask the question that i'll try uh but then uh after they got the child they commit the shirk and and giving thanks to a different god right all right okay okay so if he's the start of consciousness how can they have the concept of gods and stuff before that

[Music] you're gonna come prepared [Laughter] no so first of all okay that's not uh quite how i say it so i'll just give you some and but i think this is a really good question by the way a really good question so first of all what i've said is that in the quran i think it's six places where allah says we created mankind but in none of those verses the name adam is used so he says

in those verses there's a certain template and it doesn't seem to mention adam in them so adam is mentioned in other verses on many occasions but not in those verses where it's speaking about the human uh the human kind origin right so uh it just seems to mention you were made from a single soul um and from a single self and then from that self its partner and then from here many uh men and women were you know eventually made and so on so

okay now in one of those verses it says that uh they feared that what happened is as he it doesn't say adam but it says as he uh covered his uh you know his spouse he doesn't say but he's his his partner that's in the female she was of womb and then when she gave birth it mentions that they commit shirk but they do you know uh they ascribe shulker a little because they fear that maybe the baby won't survive or something and so they what the verse is touching on is

superstition that exists and it then mentions that obviously it goes on to say that you know so some people have said you're right some people have said that was adam but i've said that i i didn't agree with that understanding that the person committing shirk was adam but this must have been a predecessor to adam okay so somebody before adam that would have existed so most ulama all agree that creatures existed before adam so adam

was not the first creature now they disagree was he the first human as in we know humans but obviously back then the scholars didn't there wasn't much evidence of other findings as well so other bones and other things and they don't really know these things with that kind of detail so what we have is basically we have very ancient bones and we have findings that show us that look humans have varied along the way and then you have humans today homo sapiens with a certain kind of dna neanderthal dna is different if various you know heidelbergensis would be

different they'll be homo habilis will be different astrolopythicus would be different all these things would be slight variations but there's a great similarity coming down now even with homo homo sapien it's it seems to be a long trek but it's only in the recent you know 100 000 years that really this human journey as we know it has started this kind of out of africa journey begins so the question is well where does adam fit in with all of this so well okay ultimately we don't know nobody knows as a fact nobody knows well

i i was there i know nobody knows so we can only just speculate so one way of speculating is saying well adam somehow exists before all of these so he's at the beginning of so let's say homonyms go back maybe anything between i don't know let's say four million years let's somehow have said whether it's seven million depends where you place the marker now for some reason we place them there let's say we place them two million years with homo erectus and houma augusta and these kind of where they discover fire

but we know the humans that lived then were not like humans today they were not sophisticated they were very primitive they were very uh you know that they could they could make tools that so they were slightly cleverer than chimpanzees but they weren't that much cleverer than chipper they were probably slightly somewhat cleverer than chimpanzees and stuff but they weren't as clever as let's say a five-year-old child they weren't that clever because obviously we have findings from they didn't produce things that that lasted they didn't but they did live but we know adam let's say if

those who believe in adam believe adam was very sophisticated was incredibly intelligent so then you only can have one of two ways let's say he existed then so what we're saying is adam existed he was incredibly intelligent he dies humans somehow become really primitive and clumsy and and dumb and and then they stay dumb for let's say four million years and then suddenly they become intelligent again and then they become really intelligent again so that that's one theory let's say some

people could put it the other theory is no when humans became suddenly what they call the cognitive revolution this the person who began that is adam and we are all his offspring that's the other theory of looking at it so somebody could choose any you know somebody could say no i want to believe because nobody nobody has any proof about adam alayhi salam whether he existed and where he existed and we can't say i can't say for a fact that adam al-islam existed at that point or at this point this is all speculation for everybody speculating so if a person was to say look adam ali

salam existed before homo erectus and then he was just this really intelligent person let's say even if his sons were but for some reason they die then the dna changes because remember the dna keeps changing and in that case our dna from back then is not 100 the same so we then are dna we are varied from that being back then the other thing is why there's four million years of just becoming animals again like they're just like animals homo erectus they're not i mean they're

hominins but they're very animal like they're not like us like they're more them like so for so many millions here at least two million years this is going on then suddenly all of a sudden humans become really inspired and they become everything so okay somebody could believe that you know if they want to believe it that's fine the other way is that well no when the cognitive revolution begins that is adam now that would mean let's say you took this root the cognitive revolution root then in that case before adam homonyms exist but they just don't have consciousness

the way we have it but they have some consciousness because look even animals have some consciousness primates monkeys today even have some consciousness dolphins have consciousness elephants are self-aware that you know like some consciousness already exists even today in animals it's like and it's not a low level it's it's a pretty good level for given the animal status like elephants will mourn the dead they they have memories they remember even after a decade they will remember oh this person this place they you know chimpanzees they very sophisticated for their own thing and and hominins were more sophisticated than them so neanderthals were much more obviously

clever than chimpanzees so in that case let's go with this theory that the the hominins that existed would have had you know some level of a higher consciousness just not like us though the way we can do it and they would have been the forerunners to to this huge revolution which would have began with one person in this case in this theory would have been adam ali salam and he would have ate something now according to some people that would have been what they call the stoned

uh man theory is or the stoned ape theory some scientists call it is that he would have consumed some kind of psychedelic which they feel may be some particular strains of mushrooms or certain things that are millions of years old so they are in fact much older than you know all us kind of beings so they've been existing and and you know things like mushrooms by the way are not from the plant kingdom they are a separate entity so they are actually closer to humans than they are then plants are closer than you know so they

they are a separate entity fungi is not a plant even though it grows mycelium grows like roots and stuff but it's not to be confused with it being a plant even though we eat it but it's not a vegetable it's not mushrooms are not technically vegetables they are fungi so and they have communicating networks so they have a form of even today trees to communicate but they communicate through mycelium you know through mushroom roots under under the earth so according to this theory that make that many homonyms for for you know for time had been consuming

these things and it had been edging up the consciousness but it just hadn't exploded it needed that final explosion and that according to this theory some person did it now could that person who consumes this forbidden fruit be adam alaihi salaam could it could this story still coincide certain people believe it can i also agree that it can it doesn't have any clash it seems to also make sense that this is and why would it be a forbidden fruit well it would make sense because mushrooms are also very deadly they also kill people they also kill

creatures so it's one of those you know potluck it could kill you it could just be food or it could give you a transcendental experience of ex you know witnessing so in this theory the predecessors the pre-adamites wouldn't have had the same consciousness but they would have had some and they may have had rituals they may have had superstitions they may have had a kind of ascribing to for life like even franz dewal in his book on bonobo and the atheist speaks about is it possible that monkeys have got superstitions and he says that even though it's right

now impossible to prove but he says it's possible and he speaks of the rain dance that some of them do in that particular book but it's possible that that these people had some shield at their level obviously they weren't mukallah in that way they weren't you know they weren't uh insane but they would have been bashar as uh dr abdul shaheen distinguishes them but this is just a theory you know people you know obviously there's no proof that any of this happened in that way just as the other thing is still a theory you know if a person wants to believe that no adam came in the beginning he came several million years of years

ago and then everybody kind of stooped humanity didn't wasn't humans there were more animals for millions of years and then suddenly in the last 100 000 years they became humans again then that's you know it's it's how do the person want to fit it to me i agree with those people that say this makes sense somebody could say no i want to go with the other way it's entirely up to them uh could it be that you know like the the verse where god told the angels that he's gonna bring a khalifa yeah yeah so could the khalifa not be actually a human or individual but instead the constant

the concept of consciousness itself so god will give consciousness to a group of like oh humans is an embodiment it's okay so it's it's a metaphor for consciousness in nigeria so when he was when he gives that to a group of people they can inherit uh the world instead instead of having one individual so that we are part of that khalifa also i mean that's not the common incentive but i like what you're saying i mean it's very profound it's uh you know it's very spicy i like i like it i mean it's it's

it's you know it's i suppose it's just a different way of looking at things and it's like wow when the angels say they will cause destruction i'm sure that's referring to us no yes i think and referred to us also so we cause fossil fuels pollution and all this so i think uh the khalifa must be part of also because we are also causing the problems yeah you see i think those people who say this theory the the cognitive revolution theory they are saying this but they're saying it in personified as the man as adam is the one that consciousness is given to and this is what the angels are objecting to if you if you're saying

that here this is a let's say this is an allegory a metaphor for saying khalifa is in itself referring to consciousness itself as the noun as we are now placing consciousness on the earth it gives it a very much different flavor although the story is still very much the same you know it doesn't change the story because obviously adam is according to us the first being of consciousness of our true consciousness so yeah but it just gives it a whole different flavor you know a life saying it's not about a person he's saying we are giving consciousness

we are giving earth consciousness or placing consciousness onto earth that is uh wow i i i i like what you're saying i mean it's it definitely adds spice and flavor to it and and also another part of that it like like the world and nature and evolution is uh going to a point where we will be able to recognize the world like you know how uh we can see the moon uh and the size of the moon right to the sun it's also equal to the distance between the moon and the sun so that it's like 400 times different so when the moon goes over the sun it becomes a full eclipse where does it happen anywhere else

and then in physics that helps us because uh we can see more of the sun and the spiral will be hidden so that we can see the corona and stuff but then it only applies if there's something that can recognize it okay so sorry that that part kind of went over me like are you saying like consciousness are you speaking about the earth becoming conscious no no so it seems like uh the inevitable like evolution going towards a creature that can uh be aware okay so that when it reaches that point then maybe we will be given consciousness because the earth's been around for like four

point five billion years we have that resource yes yes so yes of course so it's when the time is ready when the stage is set yes allah says now yes my feeling is here well no of course of course so creation life has existed for so long even since the cambrian explosion at least you know you're talking almost 500 million years and mammals have been around between two to three hundred million years but it's not and even hominins you know i think human-like structures have been around for at least a couple to a few million years

but it's you know we are like you know we're not we're just like a second on this clock when we put it into perspective we're just like one that's it and yet so much has happened in this it's amazing we've unlocked the whole and you know people attributed to say ali and the the saying that that you claim that you are this small entity

yet within you is the cosmos kind of all folded up because you see the universe truly in a way it you know as as alan watts says that it comes to see itself through our eyes because we are the observer ain't we in essence when you think about it we are the the you know we it is through our consciousness that we recognize it and we recognize its life and that which is witnessing and that which is witnessed you see washington

that we are ultimately in many ways the universe witnessing ourselves it's it's it's incredibly profound but yeah i i love what you're saying as well shahid wow you definitely uh surprised us at this late hour so shukran shukran for that uh can i add a second question yes okay yeah go for it uh yeah in the story of uh ibrahim you know when uh so when i read it my understanding is like he went out of the city let me sit on the hill and then when night came he saw a star and it disappears and he saw

the moon and it disappears that he saw the sun right but before that god says we show him the sky but to me like i don't think he was blind i think he or what he's seen it for the last like 20 years or so so what does the show there mean yeah so um you see i okay that's i'll have to bring the verse up but what i would believe because i've got a video on ibrahim and i advise people to watch it's an older video but it's about according to

my research he is from the indus valley or his origins are definitely from the indus valley and i feel this is according to me definitely i'm not saying it's definite as a fact because obviously as a fact you can't we can't prove that your brain at least i'm existed as a fact it's a matter of faith so i think we could can we how uh because uh some star that appears and disappears there cannot be a star it has to be a planet because no no i mean the the the what i mean is that the person of ibrahim alaihissalam

is a person that we obviously we we believe he existed it's a matter of faith we can't as a fact prove he exists that's what i was saying because obviously whether the person existed we can't prove like you can't prove like there's no bones there's no dna there's nothing to say this person with this name as a fact as a historical artifact archaeologically speaking you can't prove you can't prove moses you can't even prove jesus you can you can prove the prophet muhammad sallallahu alaihi but you can't prove the others but i think we can prove the external event oh yes no no of course of course no so i'm not so we obviously as muslims

believe in it so what i was saying the reason i just mentioned that is because i said i definitely believe he was from the indus valley and then i was qualifying the word definitely by saying that this is my opinion obviously i don't mean definitely definitely because i can't prove that but then again nobody can even prove that he existed it's obviously a matter of faith and a matter of opinion and perspective that's what i was saying so so ibrahim alaihissalam according to my understanding was somebody of he would have been of indus valley so of ancient indian origin that that india not indian as in india india but indus valley origin

now what we know is that that civilization was and still remains to be deeply or the the kind of whatever you remnants you have deeply involved in astrological uh affairs so this whole thing about astrology and the stars and i according in that video i highlight that i would have i believe he would have been from the priestly class which and many people have highlighted the oh you know the overlap between brahmin and brahman and abraham because he he changes his name according to the bible and even according to the quran the name changes

but it's uh his name was not uh ibrahim or even abraham it was abram and then it changes into into something so the overlaps are significant according to that theory uh ibrahim alaihissalam would have been very well versed with the stars and all this astrology and this is why he was from the priestly he was from that class and even according to the bible his his family they say they were from uh so in the old testament it says it was from ur which is northeast is the top upper part of iraq but it says his his family originally were from the

east it says that in the bible so but it just doesn't explain where from the east and i've mentioned that would have been the indus valley and after the flood they would have moved from further westwards so if he knew had this knowledge and he was from the priestly class as the bible mentions his father was was a priest and so on so he would have had this knowledge and he would have understood stars so when allah is saying that he we had showed him the celestial bodies because he had a very good knowledge of them and it wasn't just uh and this is why when he's saying look at this in the

quran he points out just celestial bodies because there is a deep link there between that old priestly class and the astrologe and astrology and even when he comes to egypt you see what i postulate in my theory is that hajjar who often people say is a slave girl was not a slave girl she was a priestess because it would make sense that he's honored with a priestess but maybe the priestess to sarah is considered as like they treat her as though she's a slave because of her kind

of outcast they look at her as though she's they you know she's some kind of different caste kind of and people treat her like as though she's some slave because she's a foreigner but she's not actually a slave that she in essence was a priestly woman because the priest the women also lived in the palaces of the pharaoh and it makes sense why abraham would have had an audience with the pharaoh with the pharaoh because why would a person who just comes get to get a one-on-one with the pharaoh like why what's so special about any man because the pharaoh wouldn't just meet

normal people and the reason he would have met him is because he would have been this incredibly wise person about astrology about the stars and things because the pharaohs were also into that and this is why when he according to this understanding he sends with abraham uh herjad he gives her and obviously abraham marries her now they go off towards arabia now it's interesting that you see one of the most sacred stars in egyptian astrology

what they call uh osiris the the special ancient egyptian you know osiris who is the great figure of you know he's like one of the most beloved heroes of the god heroes of egyptian mythology is canopus in in in english today and that is the the major star of uh the southern hemisphere you can't see it in the northern hemisphere where we are so uh this star canopus is in arabic sohail which is the star which in line with which the wall of the kaaba is built it's aligned with sohail okay

so it's interesting that yes this could be a coincidence or it could be and canopus appears the hail appears on the horizon after sunset it appears in a straight angle right there you see on the horizon that's why they knew which direction sahil would is in and and allah says in the quran about the ancient people were you know what been najib yet that they are guided through them through through the astrological kind of bodies so this shows that it would make sense as well because he goes with hajjar and then he builds the kaaba and that she was also

because sohail was not a star that this the northern hemisphere was so familiar with you see because uh whereas this is more in the southern hemisphere and i i'm just i'm showing these obviously speculative uh they don't change anything nothing ever the story is still the same everything is the same it just has a different detail to it that oh that's really fascinating and it just gives an answer to some questions like why did the pharaoh meet him why did why was the kaaba built in a certain way in line with certain stars why did you know like these things it

just adds why is it that ibrahim al-islam is being mentioned as giving the example of celestial bodies in the quran it just kind of gives a little flavor to it that's the story remains the same even if somebody says no none of that is true he's just uh you know he's always from um let's say north eastern iraq and he always uh you know he just got lucky and met the pharaoh and he just whether you have a totally different version the story is still the same it doesn't really change it just gives it a different flavor that's all so uh the story of the idols being broken could be in india instead of in mesopotamia

no that no no so they would have long left that indian thing because of the floods so either he wasn't alive at the time when they or he was very young when they've left from the flood because the because what happens in history you see the indus valley civilization comes to an end and when it comes to an end where do the people go so the general historians and anthropologists say they migrated westwards so they went to words because where did the people go because obviously they didn't live there once the flood happened and it was a huge civilization one of the ancient civilizations of man is the indus valley civilization so

so generally people say well they went westwards but we don't know you know so hence you get a lot of these names as well and the in the overflow they seem very kind of indian as well that kind of indus valley in origin you know like even names like the gilgamesh the great things of mesopotamia and even the mitani people who settle in the middle east and and they have this obviously very powerful people as well and all these it's they their names also seem to have that kind of tone to it but yeah this is all just guess and you know it doesn't mean anything nobody has to take it too seriously it's just thoughts

but okay yeah so um cool so shukran uh for that shahid i appreciate it we are getting late here so shukran do send me a message on instagram i'll look out for you take care once again likewise people that wash i got carried away in the discussion as i mentioned it's epic having him on there just getting carried