Positivity , Magic & Mysticism | Meetup | Mufti Abu Layth

[Music] All right. Bismillah. Just check this is operational. Alhamdulillah.

for. [Music] All right. Wow. It's been quite a while.

As always, a pleasure. Huh? M shukran shukran likewise. Allah bless you all. Yeah. How has everybody been? Yes. Salam. See Iran Khanism

Shereim. Wow. What a name. Shin that is uh you know one of my favorite reciters of all time that I've just really stuck with. Uh it's really just shame for these. Wow. What a always thought that's an awesome name.

Hassan Sean can't be seen. I'm sure he can. and clear salam l how are you allin FBI it's the FBI people

are you aware of your growing popularity on Tik Tok? I'm not actually. Um, as the poet says that uh we had a discord meet up discord meet up today and as I said to them that

that's uh you know between what can one say risk and half of life has disappeared Well, well, I guess what else is life, huh? Yeah. Right. So, people are making edits.

Are they Allah Allah? Right. Mad did what's Miy say something about engineer sub. Um yeah, you know, I before anything, yeah, I'd like to make dua. Allah make things easy for me.

It's really just unfair what's going on. Those of you that aren't familiar, he's been arrested in Pakistan. It's been um a little while now and he's been arrested on blasphemy charges and you know Miraa engineer I mean well he's somebody who he he kind of I guess provoked a lot of people as many people I guess uh you know I'm no stranger to that theme but He

a lot of people were irritated with him in Pakistan and but yeah but this it's just it's cruel you know to a like such a malicious extent.

So he was um giving some speech and and he was critiquing some point and he mentions um that I think he was mentioning a point about the Shia Shia and Sunni Muslims and he was highlighting this point that look people say for example that the Shia and Sunni can't interi and he was highlighting the absurdity of this point trying to say well

we're all Muslims why can't they intermar and then he highlights that Allah says in the Quran that we can marry the women of the Christians and the Jews. So he elaborates upon the example of the Christians and he says well he says Christians they don't even believe in our prophet to them so he says look to them our prophet is an impostor our prophet is a

dal now he uses this phrase and and he says well yet we are allowed to that Muslim men and Christian women can marry and so so Mimabola that why would it not be allowed between Sunni and Shia now this is the discussion that he's having so some scholars took that to say well oh you know this has caused panic amongst the Christian folk book in

Pakistan they're becoming uh fearful of their lives because MA has said oh they consider the prophet uh of Islam to be uh an impostor at the jal now and therefore because they feared for their lives Mira has blasphemed against Christianity so the blasphemy is not against Islam It's against Christianity that he's blasphemed.

And then they've had him arrested and they've had him. Now look, it's one thing saying that that sure he you know, you can always use better words to promote harmony between the faiths and and they may say that look we don't refer to the prophet of Islam as a dajal or an impostor.

we don't use these words and and that's very respectful of them and they shouldn't because they don't believe in our prophet. So if somebody claims to be a prophet but you don't believe in him to be a prophet then one could say you indirectly are supposing that they are false in their claim thereby an impostor.

But so this but he wasn't even this wasn't even his point. He wasn't even Mira wasn't trying to argue this. He was trying to highlight that Sunni Shia should have a a kind of harmony and a like cordial kind of relations. They shouldn't be they can marry if they want to.

They can do this was the topic the theme of his discussion. Now he uses that as an example and he uses and he expresses this term of impostor. The Christians think of that towards the prophet of Islam. Now it's undeniable that he could have used better words. That's undeniable surely. I mean I'm sure he could have used better words and he could have phrased it better.

He could have expressed it better. But to say he is feming, you know, this it's ridiculous. And then have him thrown into prison over this. It's nothing but a miscarriage of justice. Uh sectarianism on steroids.

And really it is the antithesis of what this faith has come for and what this message has come with that and that is to our sam and then by extension to us.

Um, now so that's right. Somebody said Miy may have I never used the word Santa Claus for Jesus.

And so that's just a lie. They said Mui may have used that. I did not use that when I discussed that with years ago many years ago I think was 7 8 years 20 what was it 17 I had a sit down with sheh never used that what I said is that for those people who don't believe in the second coming of Jesus and yeah that was humor saying well you know Santa Claus is coming but so yeah but that's not saying uh and this is exactly the problem of um trying to just fit labels of blasphemy

on people just just doing that is ridiculous. uh you know you disagree with people that's fine right now you disagree with people that is fine but to fit this try to just any person you disagree with you try to say they are somehow against Allah and his me because what does blaspheming mean it means that somebody hates Allah they hate his prophet that they are disrespecting Allah and his prophet it.

Now just think about that for a moment and then fitting that on Muslims. It's absurd, you know, it's it's the opposite of what this dean has come for. So that was the whole thing with um Miza engineer. Um right so that is um yeah you know Allah make things easy for MA engineer Sab and it's just

unfortunate that that kind of sectarianism is is going strong and then Pakistan unfortunately you know the military and their corruption it's It's a shame because really now Pakistan is it is emerging you know as a uh it has its mark on the global scale you know it's and recently this deal this pact it's done with Saudi Arabia is I feel you know uh unprecedented

groundbreaking and Pakistan keeping in mind Pakistan really is it's like a front for China. So yeah and you know and China has kind of expressed that that any attack on Pakistan even though it hasn't said is an attack on China but it said that China will always be there to offer support to Pakistan.

So this I I feel it's it's incredible that um that that something like that has developed. I can actually see a somewhat of a NATO like alliance emerging with the Gulf States um between them and Pakistan especially since this war of Pakistan and India.

It's Pakistan has really emerged with its aviation prowess as in some ways leading the world. I mean what Pakistan pulled off with its ABC aviation strategy has never been pulled never been demonstrated not by the United States nor by Russia. the leading military powers had not pulled off the ABC strategy that Pakistan pulled off during this last war with India.

So and naturally Pakistan couldn't have pulled it off without China. So, but um right so um right I'm just trying to go through some questions.

Somebody mentioned Jacqu Lan. I'm not sure what that means. Jacan's not all is interesting when considered with the 99 names. I'm not sure. Uh um

right. Shukan. Shukan. Uh from Malaysia, Kabad Salam, how do you feel about apostate prophet becoming a full-on neon? I don't I really don't follow these people, so I don't really know what's um going on.

Um, somebody's saying, "Have you seen what's been going on between Haki Gutchu and some other I haven't I haven't I haven't seen it's been years, literally years. I haven't watched anything of I had been a bit preoccupied over the past couple of years. I did go into some more um for over two years into expanded a bit with business on the retail front.

So we did have to there was uh a restaurant and another shop and things and that was quite preoccupying. But my own journey has been it's been other things going on as well. my own developments, learning, wayfairing on this path and life I guess you know and these things are enough of a preoccupation.

Huh? What else does uh a person want? All right. So you know today um right somebody's today we there were some interesting questions we were having some fascinating discussions on the discord meetup that we do and yeah and there was They uh I thought

it's worth sharing actually even here somebody was asking about surah yusf and about ysefam person also named yusfa I was saying well that's very uh timely they were asking that there is this verse in surah ysef when ysefisam is in prison and and it mentions that he that he mentions S to the one to the one and there is a disagreement.

Who is this person assuming? But to the to the person who gets out of prison, Ysefam tells him to tell the king and put in a good word. So the shan made him forget the mentioning of his lord.

Now this triggered a you know a discussion on what who is meant here by this verb and who is the object of the verb and who is the meaning of r. So is it foran? So the person who survives the prison and Ysefam tells him that you know when you meet the king put in a good word for me is the shan makes him forget that

forget to rem forget to mention Ysef Alisam in the king's uh presence or in the king's audience. Is that what this is referring to? Or is it referring to the Shan made Ysefam forget the name of Allah whilst telling that person i.e. forgot to say inshallah like mention me to your king inshallah or as some people have taken it that

ysefisam should have not taken this means he should have completely relied on Allah and by adopting a means are you giving up on a reliance towards Allah So, and this is how some people like they interpreted this verse to say and they come up with a hadith that it's not really you know it's you wouldn't really say it's a hadith going back to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam with certainty you couldn't say that but but

they have this that had he had ysefisam not forgotten Allah instead in that moment he would not have remained because it says he then remained in prison for a number of years and people say arguably n years he remained in prison in Arabic is a number between three to 10.

So it's between the bida and it comes you could with either 10. So I could say and 10 or it comes with in the like for example 20 and bida meaning a number that is often set between 3 to 10. It's like between that. So in this case the mufasin say nine.

So he remained in prison for approximately nine more years. Now according to Katada and some other people that this was almost he was this happened because he adopted a means other than complete and utter reliance on Allah. So it's almost one could say as a like a discipline that he so they're seeing it that way that this that the shan made you forget the remembrance of

his own lord as opposed to thinking can you mention me to this king. So yeah, now this and this brings us to the question then can we adopt worldly means or should we just entirely depend on the reliance of Allah? And here few people have this discussion and surprisingly many of the mufaserim including uh Ashur, including uh people like uh Razi, including people like

Jose, including people um like Ari as well. I believe that many of them go with this understanding that Ysef Alisam is the person intended. So he is the one who forgot and we should he should have relied just on Allah. That is almost somewhat of a and they use the the framework that there's nothing wrong in adopting in taking means but that's for the regular folk but for those who are closer to Allah they should only rely on Allah.

And so this this is saying and and and those of you that are familiar with the Arabic axiom that uh that those who the the good deeds of those who are pious the virtuous are considered bad deeds.

needs for those who are closer still to God. So yeah now that is you know we were having this discussion and I just felt that yeah that is one way to look at things but I feel that that's a um you know it's a very tough on the self and I guess that's what they're intending something very tough on the self but Yeah, that the asurabb in this

dunya are made for this dunya and Allah is the one that has made them and it's not that ysef. am was being punished for forgetting to say Allah's name rather the person forgot and and such was faith such was the story and something important here and I was reminding the discord group this as well that we you see the Quran the verses of the Quran have a

a superp positionality about them. You know they are in we have to quantize take it into a realm of quantum physics. These verses their meanings they are in a superp position. They are in every position of the meaning.

And then the wave function collapses and they appear here or they appear there. And they appear based on what we are experiencing in our lives or in that moment in which we read that verse. So if you understand that so all of the meanings that the verses carry they carry them equally and then the wave function collapses and this one makes more sense to us.

So we go with that and and another point in life another verse may another meaning may make more sense and that's fine. So that is the way that the verses of the Quran have a superpositionality. They are in a state of superposition.

That is something that the Quran in all its splendor, it continues to add meaning to our lives in new and unprecedented ways. you see. So yeah, so I thought that's uh um something I wanted to share with you guys.

Um right, somebody do you believe the prophets in the book are real? Are they archetypes? The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the prophets they were real people. They were real people and and there were many others that were not mentioned.

You know Allah says that there were many others. We did not even mention them to you. The prophets do embody I believe that they embody a kind of archetype. So each prophet his personality is also an archetype that we might identify with.

And maybe throughout our lives we might identify with one archetype, one personality if you like of a prophet more or maybe all of them or many of them or some of them. And in some ways I feel that the mission of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam was an amalgamation of all archetypes in his archetype sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Hence it was then the ultimate. So so the prophets the were real people unquestionably. Adamisam was one person. I know do believe that Adam may have referred to a a kind of genius.

I personally believe that he was a person. He was one person. It's not that he was a genus or a collective. He was one person, a real person as all the prophets uh and the Amy were. Ali, right? [Music]

All right. I'm trying to um Have you been Oh, is that somebody else? about somebody else. I don't Allah Allah gab but yeah so that's that people I'll you know another thing that I'll share as I'll share the link and

let me copy this and share the link people share some thoughts whilst I'm sharing that this can with the link you can uh join um but you will have to activate your mic and your video cam and then yeah you can join.

All right. So a question on the nature of reality. So this is a a big one. We have to understand and I've been sharing this quite a bit. We in this world are almost like like a vessel, like a casing, a shell.

This body of ours, although it's real, but it's kind of in a way it's temporary. It is of this. It is not eternal the way our ru is eternal.

So the our souls our ru are connected. They they are in they are connected to us but their source they're connected with the bzah. The burak is almost like

the boundary, the kind of projecting base from which this world emerges and manifests holographically almost. So to us this world is very real unquestionably but it's actually quite illusory and it's not as real the way we think it's real.

Obviously it feels like that to us. It is a bit it is like the best example is this dunya is a simulation created by Allah and it's actually more illusory than it is real and as it's been said that everything we call real is made up of stuff we can't call real in physics I And even if we go right down to the atomic level, 99.9%

of atoms are empty, nothingness, yet it appears real, you know. So this whole so so what what we have before us to us it's like the characters in a computer game. To the characters, it's real. But to the person playing the game, they understand that really these characters are emerging from that game console or from the PC.

The PC is generating this reality. The coding for that reality does not look like what we're seeing as the game. So if you're seeing trees and a road and a car and um that is not what the coding is like. Similarly our which is here but it's connected also to the bz where where the coding for this realm is taking place and then you have the world of pure

spirit. So the the bzak is almost the the barrier between it is what has been termed mundus imagul otherwise known as the bar. And this is why what switches this on for us is consciousness which is a but consciousness has layers and and features to it.

So when we are right now aware we're conscious of something. It blocks out the much larger part of consciousness which is our subconscious and the unconscious and the deep unconscious. That is kind of we're not aware of those things. We are only aware of our attention. And you see and hence when you go to sleep, what does the Quran say?

Allah takes your soul because where is it being take to the bar? That that's where it's connected. That is where we return as we die in this. It's not for the first time. We were always connected to the bar even before we came into this dunya. So and in that world things operate in a different language.

They operate in symbols. They operate in language. That's why in dreams they can be much communication but it it won't be I mean it can be just actual communication like somebody tells you something like we do in this world but often it will be communication in symbols not in words as we are familiar with them.

You understand? So because that world in that world symbols can mean different things. It's not it like here you see this is where the deep unconscious is the now this is where somebody mentioned earlier on Lakhan you know when Lan said the unconscious is structured like a language and he's on to something there this is why Leanian psychoanalysis is very fascinating you know it's I I do admire

what what Lan really did with uh Freud's work because I I feel he kind of gave it a lifeline and also it's so fascinating the parallels he drew they have immense I feel parallels with the mystic understanding of Islam especially that um of the great sheh Mahin ibn Arabi and especially And I've done some videos on that in the past where the three registers of which Lan speaks, you know, the imaginary order,

the symbolic order and the real and I really gave that a fit as and I thought it just fitted seamlessly. I mean it's so beautifully and majestically I feel fits that and I've got those videos from last year so do watch them if you're interested I think I've got it as Islamic psychology but hey so this is something we have to I feel it's so

just mind expanding to learn and to realize that how our connection works And the world of the barak is a world of symbols. And so it's almost like you have a realm of pure spirit and then you have this realm of material. And there is this boundary in between which projects you know as Ari said each realm manifests is is a projection of the realm before it.

It is a maja they call it in Arabic and a madar a manifestation. So like holographically and that's intriguing because you know a true hologram. So a true hologram, the ones that are made where you can shine a laser and not just so some holograms are like, you know, stickers on a credit card and stuff, but that's although it's using some holographic principle, but they're not true holograms.

Uh true holograms are the ones that actually, you know, when you shine a laser on them, they will kind of appear and manifest. Those holograms are each if you were to break the you know how that's uh break those pieces each piece contains the whole.

So a hologram in some way is almost like a fractal universe within itself. So each piece of a hologram contains the whole hologram and and that's incredible because you see that goes to show because if this dunya is a majar of the bar which is our deep unconscious that realm in the bar then it's it's so fascinating that really each and every one of us does

contain the whole universe within us. And that saying that's attributed to that that you claim you are this small entity yet in you lies the entire universe.

So yeah that's um I feel that that's um um you know just something to explore. I will speak more about this um definitely because I feel it's it's something so relevant in understanding because it gives us a realization of one the illusory nature of this world.

Two that this world is a simulation. It is coded. It's not it's not real the way we think it's real. But so in the in such a world what could make a difference apart from how we participate in the world imagination and visualization because that is key cuz in a world that is illusory imagination is king.

So and this is something Hari really you know he was light years ahead of people that he kind of gotten onto this and realized this. So yeah and I feel that that gives us that it also teaches us about kash people who they you know this they do kash they a removing of the veil into the bah from this in a wakeful state.

So you're not asleep dreaming. But when you access the bers whilst your consciousness is activated here, it has a different experience. And that may be through you know meditation, deep breath work. It may be through um active um um what we have uh active imagination as Carl Young said um or it may be through psychedelics.

You see it's something that psychedelics does as well. It will do kash of that veil and project you in a state of consciousness into the deep unconscious of the barak. And what what crazy and you know mindboggling ride that will be because you have been just catapulted into the realm of the barak.

But in a wakeful state- w where the system generally is does not its general design is not designed in that way. It's normally you access the bar when you sleep. So that's a different method. It has a different experience. But with the cash either through deep meditation, through breath work, through psychedelics, you are projected, catapulted into that world.

And one hell of a ride. You know, you have to buckle down because what on earth is going on there? Those symbols, what what do you make of that? And but one thing for sure that that realm our connection the R all of these things they are also a source of healing.

They are also a source of profound healing for this dunya. So I feel these things are very um important to explore. Right. Um yeah I mean so Modasar speaking of that sorry that in quantum physics it's not that they are saying things appear or disappear what they're saying in quantum physics is that we know what collapses the wave

function and the Copenhagen interpretation was that what collapses it is conscious observation and that's yeah because nobody knows what collapses the wave function we know that everything you know when you go when you quantize so imagine everything around us this microphone this cup me you everything you know we are made up of compound molecules and you you gets smaller.

You zoom in and zoom in and you end up with atoms and you zoom in and it's going to be quarks and and then you get to a point in the quantum realm where this these particles even though they are here technically they were they were in a state of superp position. So they were everywhere.

Not that they could have been everywhere, but they were everywhere and then the wave function collapsed and they appeared here. So one mindbogling question is what collapses the wave function?

Nobody knows that. So you know one theory is the Copenhagen interpretation is that it is um um it it is the conscious observer elapses the wave function. Another interpretation is the transactional interpretation.

That's intriguing as well, you know, and uh believe that's that's by Wheeler. And so in the transactional interpretation, there is a handshake between the future and the present and there is an offer and a confirmation. It kind of shakes out and that collapses the wave function.

That's wild because thereby the future precipitates the past completely. If that be true, we had everything on its head. You see, we we completely misunderstood the directionality of cause and effect. And yeah, and in one one way, well, the future could be creating the past.

One could say because well, Allah knows everything and time does not apply to Allah. So it could be that things are retrospectively being caused. That's wild if you think about it. the more we learn Allah right.

So we miss you miss you too y Allah bless you all. Amen. Amen. Uh I did share the link to uh let me share the link. you will need to switch on your mic and your camera.

Um, so it has a setting that it must it will have that for you to show up. So let me see. I can see somebody here. Right. So I've just shared the link again. Um, right. Okay. A very quick question.

And right so where's the that you once mentioned the oh right where's it gone see I'm trying to I Abu Khanifa never believed in black magic nor jin possession. Is it possible to do a deeper I mean not right now but briefly.

Yeah. I mean according to people who do not so the two sides of or the two camps when it comes to the belief on magic in a nutshell everybody agrees believes in this word magic. Everybody me included every single person included believes in the word magic.

they then disagree what it applies to. So for example, everybody agrees that um like slate of hand like tricking people, party tricks is a form of magic, but it's not real. Like everybody would think that's not real. It's just a trick. But to the person who doesn't know the trick, it appears as magic.

You know, you can pull a rabbit out of a hat. you can do all of this stuff. Now you and I can't do these things but David Blaine for example doing all his stuff but we would feel that there is a way that we just don't know but the person is doing a trick. So everybody calls that magic. Then there so there's three that everybody agrees on. These things are called magic and that's everybody you know even people who don't believe in magic believe in this magic.

Everybody agrees on magic. They agree on these three that it is for example just what we call shahhata just trickery slate of hand that's one party tricks and other things one second hypnosis and mind control everybody accepts that that is a form of magic.

So when if you're referring to hypnosis, you entranced somebody, you did mind control, everybody accepts that as a if you want to use the word magic, then that's fine. That does exist. Everybody agrees on potions in the sense mood enhancers.

So, you know, you could somebody could be so volatile and you give them some lithium and it stabilizes them. Everybody would agree on that. You could give somebody a stimulant, it makes them so erratic. You could give somebody a hyper stimulant. Somebody could take cocaine, become so ecstatic. They could take things without knowing they've taken them.

A person could take psychedelics. They could hallucinate. take LSD, see things they nobody dis if if disagrees on these things. If you want to call that magic, sure that's magic. Somebody could say casting a spell through words, creating emotions. This is kind of like mind control, a love spell, falling in love with somebody, becoming besotted.

This is a kind of magic that happens. Nobody disagrees in these things as magic. Then there is a kind of folkloruric magic like the magic of stories and fairy tales and you know like this person cast a spell and turned that prince into a frog. This kind of magic they would all you know they here everybody would disagree.

So here there would be one camp that would say no nothing like that ever happens. Okay. And I too would be part of that. I would say there's no no such thing like the the fairy tale magic turning a prince into a frog and you know all of that that doesn't that's not real. That's only in stories. That doesn't happen. And then there's a group of people who would believe that does happen.

you could turn a prince into a frog. I mean that that to me is just naive. It's unfortunate that people have beliefs like that. Um you know it's very superstitious and it's you know it's it's easily ridiculed because it's not the way we are. Remember I said we are living in a simulation created by Allah. It's not the rules of this simulation that things like that happen.

people don't get turned into frogs and vice versa. This doesn't happen. You can believe that, but that's I mean, I'm sure you would be embarrassed to say something like that publicly that I believe a human can be turned into a frog. Then there's a group in the middle. They believe that okay you can't turn people into frogs but what you can do is you can create diseases,

kill people, cause death. You can people. You can basically you can create ailments. ailments and like diseases. You can handicap someone. You can ruin people's lives through magic, but you can't turn them into something else. Like, you can't turn a prince into a frog, but I could make the prince have cancer.

I could, you know, make the prince have a heart attack by saying something. I mean, I suppose heart attack, one could say, well, you could have a heart attack anyway. But let's say I could make him grow a tumor by doing some magic on him. Or I could make his life full of bad luck now. Only bad things happen to that prince. He only has car accidents and everything terrible only happens to because I've done a special spell on him.

So but they so that group don't accept what you call so they say you can't change an entity into another entity but you can influence people uh not just influence you see because influence people well you can influence people by just talking to them but they mean you can do supernatural phenomenon things like create diseases create bad luck for people because of a spell.

And now you see this to me does not exist. This to me is against in Allah. We believe in one Allah who is all powerful over all things. No magic spell can cause bad luck to me. I don't care how powerful you think your spell is.

If something bad is happening to me, Allah says it's from Allah. Something good is happening to me, it's from Allah. Maybe you know things are by our own doings. So for example, a person does something, they work hard, they get something, they don't, they do. That's our own doing. This is what the Quran says. It says it's your own doing and it's from Allah. There is no such thing that the Quran is saying, "Oh, by the way, this person's got cancer because there's an old lady sitting in a village 5,000 mi away.

Uh, Bardi can't even sort her own life out, but she's casting a spell and she's got about 5,000 people in a cancer ward because of her prowess, but her own life she's living in a shak." I mean this is this kind of belief is you know it's very kind of primitive and um and then to justify this belief they will um say oh but there's a hadith that magic was done onto the prophet which

goes against the Quran. The Quran says Allah says the and the those who disbelieved said that magic was done on you follow a man who magic has been done onto. Allah says the not us not the believers. So if you say well yeah but the at that time magic wasn't done onto him but later on magic was done onto him then you are kind of agreeing that magic could have been done onto him and then

it's so insulting the hadith that they put forward saying that the prophet I don't even want to repeat the words that they insinuate and imply about our prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and we always you see one thing we have to have is above all love for the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and the prophet comes first.

His honor comes first. So when people say that oh if any person you know one thing about the school of Medina the maliki mab is anything that compromises the honor of the prophet you compromise that immediately. So when people are saying that oh the you know this happened to the prophet and he became so forgetful for six months the prophet became forgetful prophet started having false imagin.

The prophet they say things like became sexually impotent that is so disrespectful and saying anything like this is so disrespectful. So no, these things did not happen. These hadith are absolutely fabricated.

They made up that say that uh nothing like that happened to the prophet and it would be so disrespectful to even suggest something like that. And there were people from the Hanfi mother people do they attribute this to Imam Abu Hanifh but I suppose it's difficult finding a direct quote from Imam Abu Hanifh but the Hanfi Madhab you know great imams like Abu Bakar al Jas he writes extensively about this I mean Abakar Jas in his uh in his writings he clearly says people who believe in

this are he he highlights them as just he says that they have no understanding of the dean. He says that this is almost a plot that has been fed into the Muslim tradition that unfortunately ignorant people picked up on and they made it widespread. This is what Jas is saying just and he's a great hanfi isn't he?

And now I know some of the hanofi will because he made these claims try to sometimes distance themselves from him but he was one of the earliest great um you know scholars of the hanfi madhab hisuls jas is still relied on relied upon today um I don't I I feel and you know maybe the hanafias later hanafia might try to you I don't know, maybe they don't like him because he said these things, but they can't deny he is an absolute legendary

scholar of the Hanafi Mat legendary scholar. So, but he's one amongst many. But I would feel look these things it's not even about following numbers or names. It's about just basic common sense and reason. What did the prophet say? And we discussed this today on our discord group as well that they you see the prophet said when they asked him how do we know what's wrong when a thing is wrong how do we know and the prophet said

resort to your heart you know that which unsettles the heart he said That is the cry. Now you ask yourself that what which is you know a belief in Allah the all powerful nothing can happen a belief in these kind of things is all superstition then you know it's like oh this is happening because then then oh my god you would be riddled with stress you know your life would be like oh my god

who's done magic on me who's done this on me who's done that on who sent a jin against me, who sent like your whole life would just be riddled. And look, if you want to believe that, believe it. You know, it's a free world. Can believe anything you want.

But you have one there's one pathway which only celebrates like I feel I call you to the un the only unfathomable glory and power of Allah that controls everything.

There is no such thing as bad fortune happening to you because somebody somewhere is casting a spell. The of Allah then that is a god then wouldn't you say that is a god? If a person from the unseen to me is casting misfortune upon my and I can't even how can I protect myself against that

there is no none have this power Allah you rid yourself of these shackles of superstition there's nothing and all of a sudden life gets so much better is you don't believe in these things they don't impact you. You know I remember there's inidi there's a narration of some of the salv there's a narration that um one of the he was entering the bathroom and and you know like there's a dua to go into the bathroom

and say and then people disagree on what means and some people say oh it means to save you from the uh to save you from the kind of the jin um you know to save you from the shin. Now I would say that well okay now so so in this particular narration this caf he goes in and he doesn't say the dua or something or he forgets and the person reminds him that there's something about I don't want to misquote but the point is that the person forgets to say the

dua and the person says to him well what about the theatin harming you and his response I believe It's one of the his response is our lord is Allah alone none other than him meaning nobody harms me if harm is to come to me it will come by only Allah I don't need to fear demons I don't need to fear you know some wizardry and sorcery

Allah in his to me that is sufficient. Now people if you want to disagree respectfully sure you know you want to say well you believe sure that there's people have these subpowers that now because of that you have to seek refuge in certain ways and it's your life you can do as you please but to me if this was that important Allah would have mentioned it in the Quran because think about it this is that important that then one person could be having multiple attacks from the unseen on a daily basis

and how am I supposed to protect myself from it? So surely this must be in every single surah Allah must mention or every J of the Quran Allah would remind us oh by the way remember you know these people are attacking you and so yeah that's my thoughts on it. May Allah inspire us all to really just be very utterly reliant on Allah's power only and to also view the world in a very positive light.

You know, it's not a world a world, not a world of superstition and negativity, but a world of positivity. Not where magic spells are being casted and demonic possessions are taking place but a world where we are spreading mercy light Allah and we are mirroring that light on on earth you know we are spreading compassion we are spreading that's

I'll share the Yeah. And this is a beautiful point here. I want to uh what Monib has said that not maybe I I I think you you've phrased the beginning of that wrong that the whole point of religion of Islam was to shun super that's I don't that's not a maybe that is 100% the purpose of Islam that it was to rid the pagan Arabs and the world by extension of superstition and shik because what is shik

fundamentally see shik was not just the statue the statue was nothing you know the statue what is the statue the idol is nothing you know you can you can you can smash an idol pick up a statue and just break it the the shik was much greater than that it wasn't just the statue It was the belief that had shackled the the the believers in it.

They couldn't rid themselves of that superstition. They didn't know how to recon. They many of them believed in Allah as a fundamental reality of the cosmos. You know, there's a verse that if you said to them, you know, who created Allah? They will say Allah. But they feel that they're so far gone. These other superstitions have got them in this dark web and they can't free themselves.

They are bound to superstition. So tohed came to shatter those shackles of superstition and to reconnect people with Allah. Right? So that's what I would um I would say. I'll share this sheh. I'm a revert to Islam.

for a few days. May Allah Tommy, may Allah bless you and grant you ease on your journey. Not Tommy Robinson. No, I'm joking. That's but Allah bless you. And you know what I would say is uh some quick words is as the prophet said in the hadith

that a moment then a moment you know one step after the other that's what I would say it's a journey it's a journey of a lifetime don't try to rush it and you know many great things will come okay I'm just going to just seeing if I can quickly grab a drink and then I'll I'll do a very brief um just give me I'm going to do a very brief um bring some people on taking some questions and then wrap this up.

Let me on momentto people just give me one second. It's my edit that out of the video on YouTube. Right. So, you know, I went I pulled myself a drink and I thought it was too catching my throat. I thought [Laughter] what's that chai chai?

That's the thing. Uh oh, I see you can see the uh people that is Kawan. Okay. This is uh one of the holy cities of Islam especially for the Malikia, the school of Medina.

Um, right. So, no, when you hold on needs a tune, you know, when you're on hold at the I do need one of those tunes. But yeah, I'm going to have to get that uh edited out. So, just a break. Went on a tea break.

See no vak a person has to in many ways just you know just as a way furer through this world through this you just kind of just be on your way as a mafir you what's that as a

rule [Laughter] about he says that ku that the heart you know the ka is the well and kuar is the well of the beloved.

So kuar is it's a motif I guess in udu poetry it's a common um trope that's used a lot like the well it just is an interesting question why I don't know but it's a motif within udu poetry often uh resorted to so people say kuar as opposed to saying even I mean they do say the house of a beloved but they often use things like the core, the well as a powerful motif.

Maybe that's where people met. Maybe that's a source of life and sustenance for them. May I I it's interesting. I'm not sure why. And in what other um traditions they do that it's not in Arabic. They don't really have that motif in the Arabic language like that or not not really seen in any Arabic poetry. Um but he says that it would be circumambulating that's where it will be and you see this is the power of poetry and especially udu poetry in some languages unlike

English you see it's difficult in English to say it without revealing what you're talking about cuz at most you could just say it but then like what's the it that you're talking about whereas In udu you could speak of something with mystery and in Arabic to some extent and you could speak of it as mystery and then reveal it in the second part.

So he says that uh it would be doing taw around the well of you know the the beloved that's what it will be. So in English it doesn't really sound that captivating but in Arab I mean And at this stage, you don't know what it is. And he says, you know, if the heart was in my chest, you'd find it beating.

Meaning there's nothing beating here. So the heart is missing. So that's where it would be. There there is a mastery in poetry that is seldom found in anything else. Allah. Right. So, we've got a few people on here. I'm just going to add you guys on and right bismillah. We've got Fad.

>> Hey, Mui. How are you? Oh my god. Can you hear me? >> Fad, I can loud and clear. Allah. Allah, how are you? >> I just want to say something good. My heart is bursting with joy that you're back. I was really worried about you. You haven't been online. >> Shukran. Shukran. Allah bless you.

>> The last >> Yeah. You know a lot has been going on in you know I I suppose everything is good. You know what if this dunya is but just a manifestation of the divine names and attributes then I guess fundamentally everything is good. you know, a lot is going on, life is going on, but I have been meaning to and there was a number of things including a bit of health as well, but that's alhamdulillah uh a lot better now.

But there's I was meaning to get back on and sometimes I think this is my kind of mystic wandering soul that sometimes I feel things are going on and and also maybe that is an opportunity to also be on a kind of hiat like a break from certain things and and then you absorb and then you come back you see so I think there's some wisdom in it but I do appreciate your uh you know your your

love and just just really your support shukran and and the you know well wishes because I do get them from you fad so and I know you've been you know you have reached out to me as well and I I think I did I did try replying to you as well So, chukr and chukran and I could see the Can I see spiky here? Is that what I I'm seeing?

>> Oh, no. I I'll tell you what happened. I just went to the market. I just went to the market and I and I wore my I'll put my hat back on. My hat. Yeah, because of that. It's really hot outside. I'm not sure if I can show you. Just looks really hot and sunny. It's like 40 degrees out there, man. That's just crazy. >> Australia is not for beginners, man.

Honestly. It's like in Australia. >> Yeah. Yeah. And um >> it's like the megaporners still exist. I mean, you see these creatures, you'll see >> I don't know, man. Like they're just like everything's king-size version of It's like every single you can imagine wild is still there in the Australian continent. It's crazy, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Nice. All right. M I know it's a short session, so I'll just quickly um get into it. And I um and I do hope that this is more of a regular thing. Yeah, this is more of a regular thing going forward. >> Inshallah. Yeah. All right. So um my first question um with the um I was uh watching a couple of old friends of yours online debating at speaker corner. Um shean Rashid and Sed Ali from Bul Gad.

Um they were referring to the verse of you know you know how the Shia used that hadith of the two weighty things. I leave you the Quran and my B And therefore, you know, you have >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there therefore you have to follow the imams. What's the Maliki view of who the B are or what's your personal view of who they are? Can you just elaborate on that please?

Yeah. You see, so this hadith that the prophet said, I leave you two things. Hold on to them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like what were the two things that he was referring to? >> Yeah. Now I know people would say well in in the narration I believe in Sahi Muslim it's that oh it's the the you know the Quran and the family the of the of the ni the family of the but the

transmission by Imam Malik is the Quran and the sunnah. >> Yeah. So that there is a way. So there is the Quran but there is a living tradition that the prophet leaves for us. So I I would find myself more in line with that that it's not the family of the prophet. Um but what I Maliki transmits that it's the sunnah the way that because there are that there is a living tradition of this dean that the prophet has left behind as well and that

he has imparted to us. So because with the and the it becomes very confusing to me anyway and and to people that who is the al then you know who are the family of the prophet and this is a big debate. I mean I've I've got a book in there two volumes just discussing this whole thing of who is the al. I know when I imam Malik was asked who is the al he said well they are the followers of the prophet and he used the verse of the Quran where the al of is referring to the followers

of the now I know yeah >> that may have been somewhat of a diplomatic response as well by Imam Malik because he didn't want to be aligned with the shia and stuff so I you see to me I would accept that the family of the prophet are beloved in a special way. I accept that unquestionably. That goes without say.

So in that sense, the wouldn't just mean the followers of the prophet. It would mean his family. I would accept that. But to me, his family would include as well his wives then. And it would include uh like it would be what we would understand family as today.

It would be his children. It would be his his kind of wives. It would be um it wouldn't be what the Shia have kind of ended up with because I feel that the Shia thing is too you know even if you follow it down it doesn't really add up because it's you know they say well it's really going to be okay it's the family but then it's only really it's only then just through Hussein it's not even through Hassan they don't even really follow or give importance to the children of Hassan

They don't. And even through it's like so >> I feel that all along the way it's it doesn't really cuz you know would his family not be his uncles? Are they not his family? And what about his uncle's children? His cousins are they not his family? And what about their children then?

Would they not be his family? Like so to me this becomes very arbitrary how we draw family then >> because I would think it's then culturally family and to be fair in all fairness the Arabs were big on family they were big you know at that time it was all about you know the the lineage and everything and so it doesn't to me I would have understood by family they would have a broad scope so zeroing back into this narration firstly the two heavy things the talain

in the narration that Imam Malik transmits it's the Quran and Sunnah and obviously I'm you know Maliki in Madhab and I follow Imam Malik and I do so that's my and I know other Malik here might disagree >> and so that's fine and when it comes to the al I do feel that the al is speaking about family.

It's not just the followers like I know Imam Malik did say that and I think that was a bit a diplomatic kind of response but or it was a response maybe it was also a provocative response as well. Maybe Immalik was being intentionally provocative as well when saying he'd like because he didn't maybe he didn't like what the Abbasids were doing. So he was kind of being kind of anti- government and anti-state slightly by not outright rebel but somewhat you know like slightly provocative but not full out rebellious.

>> So >> maybe his fatwas like that were because of things like that. So I do ag I do believe in the al being the family of the prophet but to me the family would include like a a household but it would include many things like I would think then the al would include uncles and cousins it would definitely include all the wives of the prophet um it would include the you know the children it would include uh all the children's kind of so not just through Hussein but through Hassan as Um and it would include all of so so to

me all these people would be considered uh from my perspective how I see things but sure that's not uh I know that's not how generally the Shia see it but yeah. Yep. I hope that helps. >> Just one more thing just >> Yeah it does. It does. And you want to say hello. Sorry.

Sorry. >> How are you? >> I'm good. I'm good. Shukran. Shukran. >> I see. >> He just threw me online. I've been cooking for him. >> Well, that's the energy Fahad brings. You see, he's hyper energetic. I take it it's morning over there with the sunlight coming in.

Or is that just a n from Fad's face? >> It's what? It's It's one o'clock, one in the afternoon. >> Wow. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. >> We've got to get to terms with Shukran and Shukran for coming online and just gracing us. >> Thanks, one. Thank you, M. And one one last question if that's okay. Um, just one, I promise. Is that all right?

>> Sure. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Yeah. I think you've frozen. Okay. Sorry. Is it frozen? >> You froze for a while. It It was slightly frozen, but I can hear. Right. You're back now. You're back. >> I think I just can't handle the N that you're bringing. See Allah.

>> Okay. Now, Shukran, thank you. Appreciate the kindness. Um, before I ask this question, and obviously the disclaimer is you don't have to answer this, >> okay? >> You don't have an interview the other day. This is a very recent one from doc Dr. Yaser Gadi the other day. Um I think he had an interview with someone and he was he was saying to us as per his research the early hanabilah including Ahmed bin Hal were borderline no not borderline they were clear mjasima as in anthropomorphic.

So my my question here is they both believe you know God has hands and legs and body parts and um so then in the past did any scholars excommunicate these people out of Islam. If you can just kindly elaborate this because I asked this to my local I asked this to my local imam in the mosque.

He just gave me a big smoke and he didn't want to answer it. >> No, it would be look first the the part about them being anthropomorphic. The habula many of them were anthropomorphic. Um, so that's I think trying to just a sure people can, you know, not want to own up to it because it doesn't sound nice.

I get it. But they were anthropomorphic. Some of them were proudly anthropomorphic. So it's not Yeah, >> I don't think that's that that was the that that's happened. And now as to IM Ahmed himself, you know, it's an argument. Some people say, well, where else were they getting it from? Some people say, well, they misunderstood Imam Ahmed. Either way, I'm not sure what the how it actually was.

The habula that are anthropomorphic do claim that this is the teaching of Imam Ahmed. Obviously, there are some Hannabila who are nonanthropomorphic like Josie and these will claim that the other Hannabila have got it wrong and they are misrepresenting Imam Ahmed. So that debate does exist within the hannabila but I assume the majority of the hanabila were quite anthropomorphic.

So that's that. As to the question did people do takir of them and stuff like this? I firstly condemn takir I condemn this kind of stuff of trying to throw people out of the religion. You see, yes, people did do tir of them and as did they do of other people that weren't doing that. So they kind of threw, you know, you know, kufur mud on each other in the sense that you're a kafir.

No, you're a kafir. No, you're a kafir. Of course, people did things like this. But look, really, we have to try to understand this as a human thing. Every person is just trying to understand Allah. That's what's happening. Every person is on a journey trying to connect to Allah and further their journey and bond.

Now we as human beings are very colorful and very different. You know, our minds, our mentalities are equally diverse as are we as people in our looks and colors and shades and you know physical features and our tongues, the way our languages are diverse like even more I would say infinitely more our minds are diverse.

So we see the world with different nuances. Now it doesn't mean there's not a lot of common ground but there's a lot of diversity how we see the world. So to some people they felt like to them that made sense that they saw Allah without saying they never used to say by the way that Allah is a big man in the sky.

They never used to say in that way because that would be disrespectful. But that kind of a reality is what they felt most comfortable or they felt they could relate to Allah in. So they drew closer to Allah by that's how they could relate to Allah and develop their bond by him being a kind of without saying this because they they agreed this is disrespectful to say that that you don't say God is this man in the sky.

They never used to say things like he's a man or that they never even used to say he has a body. But it seems anybody reading their works, it seems clear that that's what they believed though. They they they kind of believed that without wanting to say that because it was rude to say it. It's a bit like saying look Allah is the creator of everything.

He's created all creatures. Now that including amongst creatures is the pig but you wouldn't introduce Allah by saying Allah the creator of the pig in that sense because it would come off disrespectful but you would say Allah the creator of the whole worlds. So similarly it seems apparent to people who read any humbly works that they did kind of have a belief that Allah is this kind of man in the sky but they would say saying something like that is utterly unacceptable.

They would say that that's rude that's disrup they would even argue that's blasphemous saying it like that. But it appears that that's kind of what they believed, you know, because they would say, "Okay, we don't say that, but we say he's this thing entity that has, you know, he has two arms, two hands, two feet, uh, a face, he has a back, he has a shin, you know, he sits down, he gets up, he moves, he laughs, he has teeth, he, you know, and so, so what you're just conjuring up is a picture of really like a human like this is what you're conjuring up in the minds of

people. >> Now, they didn't do this maliciously. They didn't do this with an evil intent. They didn't do this because they hated Islam. In fact, bils, they loved Islam in their own way. They were very, you know, and I'm sure they they infinitely loved Allah. But this is how they made sense of things. Now to me that and to other people that may be absurd like they might think well that doesn't make any sense to us that why would you make sense of Allah like this rather Allah you can't picture him you

can't conceptualize him Allah is above transcendent of conceptualization Allah is the embodiment of mercy and so it's a very abstract way you know the the the the via negativa the path by which you know Allah through that which he is not. Now this is a very abstract way. It's a very kind of rightrain way of looking at the world.

And the other way is a more leftbrain way of looking at the world. Now it you see this way the via negativa it's it has a lot of ambiguity and to many people this is they this makes sense when we're speaking of Allah with his glory that he is transcendent he doesn't has no image he has no but to some people that's too difficult like they see that as too ambiguous because their brains means they may be more kind of leftbrain dominant where they need certain things otherwise they

can't handle ambiguity well somewhat maybe even you know maybe even somewhat like uh like autism and these people may have been people that had aspersions. You have to remember that people who had aspersions and uh they were kind of like the kind of professor type very intelligent but you know but very far with autism as well they may have I I would assume that many of those kind of may have been like

that who have had espers and and and one of the reasons I'm assuming that is because although It's not necessary but one of the symptoms of or signs not to of people who do have asperers and uh have are like quite further on the spectrum of autism is they do find challenging metaphor like they find metaphor to be a challenging concept.

Now it doesn't mean that they don't totally understand metaphor but many of them do struggle or they find it very challenging the concept of metaphor. So so that that may be one of the reasons why they weren't drawn to metaphor. In fact they were very metaphor averse. They thought seeing Allah, knowing Allah through metaphors is kind of uh um they they thought it's almost like distasteful to Allah.

So my point of saying this is that they were I do think they were coming from a place of love for Allah. >> Tak is stupid. Like why would you call somebody a kafir? Ultimately they are just trying to get closer to Allah. Now, you might say, well, it's misplaced. It's misunderstood. And on one hand, I guess it's easy to say from this perspective, but from their perspective, we're misplaced.

You know, from their perspective, this is wrong. You know, ambiguity is wrong, metaphor is wrong, having uh this is wrong because why are you doing this when Allah is saying it like this? We want to just go with the actual. So, yeah. So I'm very very against this takir and the takir culture is a hate culture the culture of hating >> 100%.

And even this thing of what was promoted, I don't know where this was promoted from. You know this we love and hate for the sake of Allah. Th this was never taught by the prophet like that we hate people for the sake of Allah. We don't like where where was this taught like that? This this thing was kind of um a mistransation.

Firstly, it was a very much later it's something promoted by the Salafi kind of mab what they called. Now this was never taught by the prophet and Allah in that sense but al meant does not mean a hatred meant that you have a you have an allegiance and you so you avow an allegiance to Allah and a dislegiance to what is nonallah or that which opposes Allah.

So dislegiance does not mean hate. hatred. This was then translated into English as love and hate for the sake of Allah. Love and hate is it is not. So this so this was another fine example of where translation led to you know it was like just tyranny in translation because it then led to beliefs by saying we hate people for the sake of God.

Islam does not teach hate. Yeah. Okay. Well, wrap this up. >> Thank you very much. Thank you so much. And um yesterday Well, and um just a quick one. When is the next meetup going to be? >> No, it'll be soon inshallah. I'm looking to also resume the mind traps as well. So hopefully within a week we'll have a mine trap uh up and running. So yeah, cool.

Speak soon. Much love >> people. That was Fahad from down under. Allah Allah. Um, always an epic guest. Somebody we have much love for. Uh, Marshall Payne. All a lot. People to get added into the thing, you need to have your mic and camera on. So, it has this setting otherwise it won't let you in.

>> Assalam. Marshall Payne. How are you? What a what a what a surname. >> It's actually a play It's actually a play on names from the uh Thomas Payne, the American Revolutionary. >> Yes. Yes. I thought so. >> Is that my my actual name is Marshall? So, it's kind of like Yeah. >> Allah. Allah. >> Where where are you joining us from again, Marshall?

>> Arizona. We've talked a couple times in the past. >> We have. We have. We have. We have just Excuse me. you know, and you know, forgive me for forgetting sometimes finer details. It's just I do try to I I I definitely remember you being on the meetup a couple of times, but I forget sometimes where exactly you're from. I remember you're from the States somewhere, but >> yeah, it's because I come in and out.

I don't uh regularly attend. I kind of like once every couple uh months. whenever you do attend your your presence is enough with the Allah. >> I appreciate that. >> So So Marshall, what's been on your thoughts and mind? >> Sure. So uh my question is I've uh searched you. >> That's that's a that's a good one. Miam.

It is my old age. See Miam's saying this is Muy's old age. It is. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. He's a young man. >> I'm joking. No, no. I'm joking. It is a lot. A lot at this old age now. I'm what now? 48. >> No, >> no, I'm not. I'm 46. But but I I I feel that I'm mentally in my like in my 60s.

So, yep. Go for it. Go for it. Uh I searched uh some of your videos uh about sufiism and I've I've come and from my understanding it kind of seemed like you had a negative view in the past but maybe >> uh and it seems like recently some of your videos even tonight like you've mentioned uh al Arabia a lot of times and uh your mystical self and this and that.

It seems like maybe you've had a change of heart and I'm wondering um what change like what kind of inspired that change if so? Yeah. >> Um and kind of like what has changed in in your in your view and second part would be like >> uh are is there a tar that you think that would be because there's a lot of them that seem very cultish.

Uh yeah, but uh is there one kind of >> uh path that you think would be the closest to >> uh >> so yeah, Shukran for raising that because a lot of people asked me firstly I was like main tank I saw the you know her teasing me with the with these like fine wine though right so the what because a lot of people do notice this and it's good that you raised did because I forget to discuss things at times and um and it's

on a lot of people's minds that I was very Sufi averse in my slightly older days especially during the early Monday nights I was very so like I think about 5 years ago tell something if you ask me. I was very uh but about five.

Yeah, I think there's some microphone interference by the way. So, I'm just going to slightly uh Oh, you you Yeah, that's a lot better because rather than me doing it. So if you that way if you need to say anything you can just add. um that there was maybe about 5 years ago I started gradually opening certain you know these themes and um gradual tiny steps micro steps towards them but over the last few years I've really been on this path of mysticism

and it has enveloped me you know it has truly enveloped me and I see in it like the the the I see in it the spirit of the dean. I see what is meant because by mysticism what is meant is the experiencing directly the trans the divine and what we mean by that is it doesn't mean it means in by you know experiencing whether it's his

glory his presence his connection his bond with us his direct directly but in ways that are ineffable and beyond words. So you can't capture those things in words that they are a you know like almost like a mythical experience of the divine and and when you experience these things wow and and life as well and I feel that maybe it's a stage of life and maybe

there's an the age has definitely something to do with it because I noticed as I turned Y this gradually this pathway opened and and I think part of it as well was to do with me seeking a path of healing like I think I began a path of healing probably around 40 maybe around 39 40 and but it was a long arduous journey and it wasn't something that was just like even in on incline.

It was kind of like in plateaus and and then leaps and bounds and and you know and then for a while nothing and then a leap and a bound and a bit like that. And so yeah and that involved many things. It involved uh insightful reflections. It involved uh learning.

It involved kind of meditative insights. It involved hardships, going through a lot of difficulties. Um, it involved um really introspecting where do I you know where where am I? Where do I want to go in life? How do I want to connect with people? It involved witnessing, you know, like even like my mom's illness, um the whole thing, witnessing the death.

It involved the aftermath. It involved uh psychedelics. It involved um just connecting with people that it involved speaking with certain teachers. It involved like reading some of these things. I think so many and and above all it involved my personal experiencing of these things and I think that that really showed me that like it took the faith for me from a 2D perspective into 3D

and I you know it's like when you experience true out of body experiences when you experience reality without a When you see what is that realm, you know the that space which we call which we call the deep unconscious. When you see that and the veil is removed and you experience things and where where time disappears, you know, you spend

in one of my experiences I I was there for what I felt was 80 years. I was there 80 years in the presence of Allah before returning. This is what I experienced. Now I know that wasn't 80 years in this world but I this is what I experienced it as 80 years in the presence of Allah.

Like you come back, you realize that that these things have a that that they were there that these things have a power prowess there. There's not. Then you start to understand people who maybe walked that path in the past and why you also understand why they were why people struggle to understand them because I didn't understand them before and I equally thought that you know they were speaking absurdities and so I can see when you know why people would not why it won't resonate

with people because I too was one of those people. So it's you know what greater insight than being one of that crowd that was uh absolutely did not believe in these things or or give value to these things. And so so I think a lot of these things to me understanding the concept of of

understanding these things in ways. So I really um have seen that wow that this is something which I you know it kind of came to life for me and so hence my my yeah my my views on things like mysticism changed radically you know from being very averse to being something very uh you know like a key proponent and an advocate of the path of mysticism as to you see now once again I do I feel

mysticism is within Sufism but Sufiism is not necessarily the same as mysticism it is but the by Sufism I meant what you were asking about all the and the whole because the problem here is it's once again institutionalization, its institutions, its orders and the mysticism and all of that has been preserved within the soof and Sufism.

But not all of Sufiism, >> right, >> accepts that. So there's many Sufis who who are very anti- mysticism. They're very anti- you like I guess was a Sufi. He was very anti that kind of stuff. So I think it's almost like a bit of a you know like a bit of a ven diagram kind of thing.

So I as to taras I don't follow a ta or anything. I don't personally I'm not really drawn to them and I don't and I just find them an extension of institutionalization. I don't have you know people sure people want to follow them that's fine but to me th this reality is much bigger than stuff like it's much bigger than all of that stuff >> it is a reality and it's about experiencing or trying to attain that or get closer >> some people maybe tas help them so they

do it and you know they take the they take what is it um the path of a sh that kind of init initiates them and then gives them a weird and they have certain types of thikar and and that does help a lot of people. I'm not denying that it's helpfulness but it's just not something which I was really you see I was always as a person I was a bit disenchanted with institutionalization and I although I do understand it has a lot of functionality to it but I've always felt that institutionalization always robs the spirit of something

you know because these experiences are often ineffable They can't be captured in words. And because they can't be captured in words, systems aren't don't truly capture them, but they can preserve the whole thing, but it's not and then but I I I'm very obviously loving of um I mean generally Sufism I love, but I feel that within that you've got the institutionalization of Sufism, which I'm kind of neither here, neither there with.

So I don't really um I don't follow it. I you know to each to their own if maybe to some people it it helps them so they follow it and that's fine. So that's how where I stand with all of that. >> Yeah. Um what kind of put me down the path was uh Graham Hancock's book visionary. Um I had always been against the mysticism kind of and then recently I've been going down that uh investigative road and because I uh admire you and look up to your scholarship so much I was the first thing I was like I need to see what Abu

Le has to say. What does my muti have to say about Sufiism? And then the first things I research came up were like, "Oh, they're d." And I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, dang it." >> And then here I am listening to you and it's like once again everything you say is like spot on. So I really appreciate all the work that you do >> and I'm not shook and I really appreciate you asking this because this bothers I mean it's not it doesn't just bother many people or it concerns is a better word.

Let me rephrase that. This concerns many people and also I feel that it's something which I do want to often you know express but I you know maybe I'm distracted or I forget and also where I stand on this. So you know me standing in a point where I do love the way of the Sufi but the Sufi to me means the kind of Sufi who yes there's the Sufi who is the mystic.

The Sufi who is the lover, the one who who is the the the the the merc the the the embodiment of mercy. Because Sufiism the beauty of it was it captured this very loving side of Islam and it tried to just promote that and that I feel is absolutely beautiful and any and I feel that that is the message sometimes some Sufi so that that's like to me Sufiism that I love with a capital S if I can say that.

Yeah. Then there's some su Sufis with just a regular S that have kind of become unfortunately maybe you know it's all about this is my this is my sheh is the real she you know this is the institution uh you know all of the people are like this and it's just become unfortunately sectarianism >> that if you speak to them there's no love you know it's not about loving people it's just like or there is a bit of love but it's like hating on people I feel that wherever there is uh I said this today you know in my discord thing something came up and we were speaking I

said that you know one of the the signs is the absence of negativity negativity shows that there is still an unsettled essence here and and you see that in people and even previously ly I I see it in myself as well and you know I'm not saying it isn't maybe there even now I don't know but I could see it definitely before if I look back now like this when you see an unsettled a kind of volatility

with negativity like even if you are hating on other people even if you're kind of justified in your hating but you or you justify it and you hate on people I feel that that is still a negativity. It is still a disease of the heart that you need to deal with. You know, it's like, you know, there's a lot of cholesterol in still. It's it's still something that is an ailment.

And and don't get me wrong, we all have cholesterol and we all have, you know, maybe some people are impeccable condition, but most of us are not like that, you know. So, so when we see this negativity in people, that is a a sign, a telltale sign that that the there isn't yet a proper grounding. Like maybe there's some grounding happening, but there isn't a firm tethering to the the true spirit hasn't yet manifested.

and is when people are hating on others and it beca you know there's a lot of negativity and there's a lot of oh you know that so if you can find people that just promote the positivity the love the optimism yeah that that then you've sure you know if you can find a sheh like that and you tether yourself to that then by all means you know >> I have I'm talking to him right now Oh,

Allah bless you. Allah bless you and Marshall and your family. Thank you. >> Likewise, man. Take care of yourself. Allah keep you all mashallah happy and smiling. Amen. Amen. People, that was Marshall Payne from Arizona. But guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. You know, I thought to myself, I'll just come on for an hour.

And you know, if if you guys appear, the path will appear. You know what? He says Allah that as you walk on the path the path itself will appear.

So I thought if as long as I can see you guys then Allah Allah I'm sure the path will appear with much more clarity. But here I am I thought for an hour and now two hours have been Right. So, I'm going to wrap this up. A little message before I go. Um, I shared something on my Insta story.

By the way, if you guys do uh connect with me on Instagram, on YouTube, if you're watching this, do um like and follow on in uh on YouTube as well. Leave a comment as well. you know if you I do try to read I I do read the comments and I do try to connect with people as well. So yeah do that and and it also brings it to life for me as well.

I mean it's good for the algorithm as well you know it's like the person he said uh he said halwa you know eating like halwa is he said that you know it tastes good anyway but it's as [Laughter] But so you know it's a sunnah so but it tastes good anyways but it's a sunnah so

yeah a lot so I guess it helps the algorithm as well but you know I I do read it as well and I like to engage and uh you can connect with me on Instagram. Um, I am hoping to do a mind trap this coming week inshallah because I want to resume the mind traps because I I enjoy those discussions myself thoroughly.

Yeah. Other than that there's uh uh yeah so and those of you if you want a one-to-one uh session consultation it should be you can see on the ticker beneath you can go to patreon.com/malm tier 2 and and you can join my discord through that as well right uh one and the final thing I want to share with you I something I shared on my Instagram story.

It was a study I came across which I thought look see science is now stumbling upon these things and showing them. It said that you see people who have who kind of express many fears and phobias and uh catastrophize. People who catastrophize are more likely that bad things and those things that they catastrophize about happen to them.

So I shared this article saying that this is why the um the teaching of the prophet was so important about that the prophet so stressed the teaching of optimism that he would love this kind of positive optimism always like no matter what the situation that you always expect You have this this kind of affirmation that good things are always going to happen to me and you find that good things often

happen to those people. You should believe in a way that you are the luckiest person or if not amongst the luckiest people in the world. This is what you should believe about yourself that Allah has made you amongst the luckiest people on this world even and then you will not only start finding reasons to think that yeah actually I am lucky because of this and this and this but you'll start to see that incredibly lucky things start happening to you.

There's a whole, you know, book written on this as well about the uh damn it slipped my mind the title right now. One of you might remember it and put it in about the um that people who have this luck factor about them that they just believe that they're lucky and they tend to always be lucky. And so the question is it is actually the belief before the event.

So yeah, I shared that on my Insta story and the fact that the prophet he hated disliked strongly pessimism but he loved optimism and being always positive. So I just want to share that with you guys as we sign off today. Other than that people take very good care of yourselves.

Continue to spread that light, that love and mercy, the gratitude. Continue to spread it. And you know, wherever there's noise, it doesn't matter. Just keep walking. Great things will happen. Allah bless you all.