The Role Of Reason In Religion - Mufti Abu Layth

in alhamdulillah wa kafa or salat wa salam o allah rasool mustafa Allegretti Ladino Tavo oman be ho de ho master or be a 30 al madina tava or bad right so salam ala he awakened people shukran Baraka la fille come for arranging this opportunity to speak on something which we so desperately need to speak about in our times the role of reason in religion I want to begin first of all before anything I thought

actually there was going to be some till our but I want to begin bring our attention to a verse in the Quran where Allah subhana Allah says that Allah meeya zero feel oddly for younger all that do they not go traverse in the earth and see Fattah Khun Ella whom - Lubin yaki Luna be Hara fat hakuna this far as a consequence they will have hearts or cognitive faculties by which yaki Luna be heard they will have reason

well are then we yes my ona be her and perhaps ears by which they can listen for in her letter Milaap saw it is not that these people are blind were like in Tamil absurdity miss adore but it is the the Faculty of insight that is blind that's a verse from the Quran in surah al-hajj that is the inspiration the kind of backdrop to what I want to talk about insha'Allah reason right before anything

well what what does reason mean when we say reason because this this becomes surprisingly this becomes contentious this is the shocking thing I mean I'll speak for Muslims and religion as a whole as well but Muslims it's we we have a culture we would like let's say the rational rational reason intellectual these kind of terms innovative I know that's gonna carry a whole different connotation but these

this circle Islamic circle is one of the only circles with this these words are so demonized like in the modern world with it were amongst the only perhaps communities that say things like oh my god do you want to use your upper this person is using is after and that's that's that's a curse for somebody that they don't know what the hell this person is using is a colles is relying on reason so when we say reason what are we talking about let's any ideas what does reason mean people what does reason mean there are

any people of reason okay you see logic is is interesting because hmm ah right okay so you don't mean logic as in the science logic okay like the term that is used commonly like people will use terms like logic although logic has a whole different it has so much baggage with it because logic is to do with you know I mean originating with the Greeks and it comes to with certain principles like you have to have certain things these are the logical premise and the logical

result but reason is the reason is much more simpler than that and much more inclusive reason is the ability of a healthy mind to to think and make judgment especially based on practical facts that is what reason is so it's the ability of a healthy mind so we're gonna take out all of our somewhat you know some take out some gifted and talented people from from our ummah and the other

people were so excusing them of a healthy mind to just think and to make judgments especially based on practical fact this is where it would slightly differ with logic the technical logical low logic is part of this but then logic doesn't go into all fields like logic will have certain principles which today practical facts would allow us to think differently especially things like quantum physics and stuff like that don't want to just get into that but yeah so that is the definition of Reason

people now the first we said Allah is saying that do people not go out and travel do they not see things do they not perceive things then they will have faculties of reason to reason by so I was encouraging us to to do this now the question is what's the big deal what's the big deal about you know all of these about religion having reason like wow you know we've got Quran or Sunnah has come or let's say hopefully the Quran is but what is okay let's say the Quran and Sunnah Lissa's take that

as now Islam has reached us so what's the big deal I don't need my brain to analyze things I don't need your brain or your brain or what's what's the big deal what could be some issues to worry what do we think what could be some issues in in not you know what with this with this thing of like why do we need reason because we've got Islam now it's in it's in a textbook this textbook has got Islam we don't all need to analyze it what's the big deal in in reason let's take some suggestions yep

what promo video the problem the problem [Laughter] of drinking cow urine and argument if you ask them or where did you get that it's you got a scripture yeah same way you asked a Muslim you know there are Muslims drinking and if you ask them where did you and they'll say it's from my Scripture so we're saying go okay now you know and

just like the Hindus were saying to come with you in all its scientifically in becomes proven to have 5% benefit you still arguing trying to defend that in the same way I want to take it before that I want to take it before all of this so you're right I mean these things are very important and I want to come to that but I want to go right to the beginning the source we need to go to the the prequel to what's going on why

is reason important what do you think why is reason important look all I said was reason important going give us one reason why reason is important okay that too and that we're gonna come to but see you guys are on the this is like season 2 season 3 we need a prequel we need to get to before the whole thing you know when the director sat down and

said well let's what are we gonna do here why is reason important okay so you're onto something look that's the that's the okay but what what else you're all you're not fully there but what's you're getting there you're getting there so let's take for example if you listen to us then you know the message can get done so avoid notice again dilute to go back yeah so you've got use your mind you hear something you think okay let me say for example you're sitting at that desk you're telling yourself behind there's computer I don't think I can see you computer so let me use my head so using your reasoning to understand that this

an argument along a certain line so I had placed this in more pokey and I'm just trying to think is it ticking right so yep mm-hmm so no but we're not exactly there come on much much more important than all of this when it comes to religion reason you can't handle the truth god damn it this is this is the ultimate question how do you know

Islam is true how do you know Islam is true how do you know other things are not true how do we know Hinduism any Hindus here by the way okay I'm just apologize first right so any mushriks here I mean Muslim mouche okay right so is this coming out as the right hand now magic blindness with this magic right so

okay so how do we know Hinduism isn't true let's say nobody here believes in Hinduism we don't believe in idols being gods why not why don't we believe in Idol this thing is a bit ironic I'm going to call this let's say for a moment a deity and a God since it's got the width oh he's written on it but but okay let's roll with that toheeb this mug he is a God why can't that be God some reasonable rational but somebody could say well why okay so we've got so we're saying you see what

you're doing is going back to General Laws understood within nature like you're saying Oh what we've created that cause-and-effect like we've put that into motion how could that have you know how could that be the creator for this universe for this cosmos it doesn't make sense it doesn't add up to reason well okay let's say they say fine hinduism is a it's okay this this isn't good thing actually god this is a statue of god obviously it's reflecting god but then you know there's many gods and there's rom and vishnu and hanuman and ganesh

any favorites right so nothing wrong with having a favor just to speak about you should wait till you see my shrines so now the thing so we look at hinduism now we say this doesn't make any sense and the hindu will say and this isn't an attack on Hindu or on Hinduism I'm trying to show reason I'm trying to show the importance of reason in religion in faith so you

say well you know this can't be who knows the story of Ganesh by the way as an example rights okay part of the story of Ganesh is okay this is a a hugely massively summarized version so just in case some Hindu scholars try to pick me up on it or do a YouTube video on me so basically Ganesh his father the God has is out there in the cosmos

his mother is at home the God doesn't even know that okay he's not too sure let's use better words he's not aware about Ganesh being born so when he comes back many years later he sees him and thinks oh my god who's his mind with my wife and cuts his head off then he realized oh my god Oh silly me that's actually my son Ganesh and what I should have you know now I've now have decapitated him he's beheaded him so what do I do so he says okay well what I'll do is the next thing next person or next thing coming past I will just behead that thing and give him a new head so that happens to be the elephant

then that comes so he gives Ganesh the elephant head obviously the question was why cringes pick up his own head and put it back on him that would have probably been the more easier operation to do but anyway so now this Ganesh is the lord of strength and things like this the elephant kind of symbolic head why is this unreasonable to people now we say oh but that doesn't make sense having an elephant head God doesn't make sense I could ask you at this stage really according to whose sense you say it doesn't add a cool reason according to

whose reason you say it can't be it's not computed by the intellect I could ask at this stage whose intellect we already said we all have varying levels of intelligence so like these are valid questions but you would agree with me that there is a level of shared intersubjectivity the human beings have this there's a there's an intense objectivity that we have hence we have language hence we have these things the ability to communicate in that a normal healthy mind based on practical facts around us

can think and pass the judgement that this is an absurd but Lee if it does not add up to reality in the real world things like this don't happen people don't chop off heads and then get elephant heads and put them on people and these kind of things don't happen in the real world this I want you to hold on to only to lock it in this this this thought and hold on to it because this point what we're doing is saying that ok Hinduism or Christianity what do you mean three gods one God this don't make

any sense how can three be worn mathematical proofs you know this doesn't add up it doesn't we're using reason to demonstrate the fallacy in all of these right the question here comes do we do we not have the responsibility then to apply those same standards to Islam oh is it for us it's ok you know we don't no no no we don't need to ask our question because we're ok we're Muslims so it doesn't matter but no we

need to ask the Hindu what do you mean about an elephant guard or a monkey guard or this God or you know the rat guard or the snake God what does this mean or the fire God it doesn't make any sense but when it comes to us do we not have to put Islam to the same criteria of reason do we not have to because is it not all about truth isn't that what this was all about right now we're gonna put that aside i'ma tell you the Islamic ruling the Islamic ruling actually is we call this another in theology okay no Thorazine I know like you see another

but in theology means something else it means the that you have to another wall modify that you have to kind of contemplate ponder and reason over something to have an awareness or knowledge or so do we have to do this with Allah because Allah says Allah moon anahulu ilaha illa llah that no this was the first commandment that is to people as a whole know that Allah is one not just that say he's one but know it knowledge that that

those people who believed well yeah I let muna and now hop and they knew that it was the truth so to know something we have to put it to this test we have to kind of think about now the scholars most of the scholars said that this was necessary for somebody to become Muslim so this is this this next parts gonna be a bit of a shock so go I might as well hub I say for this most scholars shockingly Oh interestingly that if you

see tuck lead what does that lead mean talk lead lead yet mockolate okay see brother is telling me I know Arabic [Laughter] saying why shall give you the definition I'll just give you another variant of that form I like it I like it I like it it's good so so to clear this to kind of like be blindly led and followed as in you just follow without ever like I just I just do because somebody told me to do it that's it and it comes from the it comes from

acquired integrated understanding of where the colada will you put like a strap in the neck and lead the leash kind of thing and you with the animals just take them along so it comes from that although it doesn't have it doesn't carry that kind of degraded connotation to be fear just want to be fear doesn't like when you say I do took I I do tuck lead of a particular method it doesn't mean like you're like a like a dog or something following it along the ma that's not true but it comes from that route so okay luckily this is just blind just follow now the cleanup either is

actually in faith most scholars especially the theologians say it's actually Haram and that that Iman is invalid now that's a bit of a shock because that means most Muslims are not Muslims according to the theologians because they have to do would you another well Martha they have to themselves come to reason and realize that there is no god but but just more so most Muslims probably don't do that I mean maybe maybe they do but I mean I I don't think at the beginning of Islam they do that maybe at some point in their lives they do that but they don't

for Islam to be valid they have to do that right away technically speaking by the theologian we're doing theologian speak right now so they say you know people who write this Creed and the dogma and RT then this is what they say yet before the kind of dilution of sector education Islamic education where science is Imperial Venice style in the same place would that not be the case of though if the personal community that they for that course of education is it only because the fact we live in this world we must you know I don't think I mean do you just appealing to reason and common

sense do you think most people do that say no I don't think most people do that if like I think most people just always go with the flow most people and I think that's like a thinking people you see when I say thinking I mean a real thinking I don't just mean the capacity to think but I mean like people who are like thinkers that's always a minority of mankind there are like pure thinkers most people just always just follow and they do think I'm not saying that they're dumb but they just they're not usually like philosophers most people are not like gonna philosophize about stuff and so I don't think your average person when you reach a certain age says

well you know all this logical fallacy and let me see can this really be God or this doesn't mean I'm with you but I'm just I'm just telling you what theologians speak is some of the old my so to the extent that people you will get Obama's offer us some money in his book hotel adela says that all he says all of the theologian said that bit of a black but I mean you know fair enough he's trying to get his point across he's trying to say all the theologian Jimmy automatically mean said it's Haram to do to clean and that a man is not acceptable but that's not really the

case most of them to be faded other scholars disagreed safari knee show Connie is adenine Abdus Salam other scholar said now look listen let's split this up into two this is tolerated because let's face it most Muslims in the world are just Muslims because they born Muslim so let's not be harsh they said let's just roll with it we accept the Islam tolerates this kind of Islam but it aspires to the the more richer form of Islam where you actually know a lot to be one so the distinction here is do you know Islam to be true or

do you just think it's true because it's been you've been told it's true like I've just been told by people Islam is true fine artists I roll with that all I actually believe Islam to like I actually know it to be true like I've thought it myself so that's that the kind of richer version to aspire to so they've kind of split it into two and that's you know being fear really now so just to to kind of clarify the these things this is I'm giving you a kind of backdrop to why reason is so important even according to the scholars

they were like well no Islam can't even be valid or discount even Allah begins by addressing mankind with the first commandment as a Alamo and now let you know that there's only one God I don't just say know it so to know it you have to compare you have to contrast you have to think well why can't that be true why can't Hinduism be true why can't this be true why can't the idols okay for the Arabs it wasn't Hindu but it was similar they had their big idol worship why can't these idols be true all right this doesn't add up oh I see it doesn't to make judgment and think especially based on practical

facts and they could do that by like you said or somebody said that look that's create we made these tattoos if there was so many gods then why don't they clash and you know these kind of things people thought about them an experience as well so okay so I want to just kind of get that out there put that across now I want to come to this point that how do we know Islam to be true we use reason but then why is it see this is obvious so far what I'm saying is so obvious isn't it this is like I'm not

saying anything that's I don't know does this sound like whoa what the hell I'll never ever thought that this is a mother brothers laughing they're thinking of course it sounds sounds wacko I don't know what these look to the eyes on about does it sound a bit wacko Mayson no sure yeah Oh bit bit crazy no okay so make sense so tell me why but why us I don't know if the word is scholars or why are so many people against this this

makes so much sense but why are people against this it is insecurities and what we but okay we're gonna come to that like claims of unreasonable kind of stuff you see just to put a kind of huge point in here like a bullet point yes we've said all this is important because we need to know truth from falsehood but another very important

point if we're going to worship a God then do we do we believe that God is unreasonable this is the question that would God be unreasonable now we generally don't believe that God is unreasonable as Muslims we don't believe is unreasonable now this point is gonna follow on into well coming - did you say or somebody - said well are there things within Islam that you know clash with reason then and that and we're gonna look at that that's like portrayal of

Islam or misrepresentations or interpretations of certain things but okay let's pause that today the truth is do you think Islam is seen as a reasonable faith it isn't religion as a whole isn't seen as reasonable that reason seems to have become monopolized by the atheists they seem to have monopolized reason scientists why have Muslims shied away from reason reason didn't belong to anybody you know the the old scholars used to call reason wisdom they still I mean

there's to call this reason scientific way of looking at things what they previously today what we call science previously in the Muslim world and even like even in in in in Europe and with the Renaissance it wasn't termed science they they used to turn I mean scientists will refer to as natural ists and things like this and other people who studied nature and the laws of nature in the Muslim world hokum are people who looked at hikmah wisdom so if nourished when they referred back to people like Aristotle people what were they doing there were philosophers but

they were also observing your environment because science is an observation a systematic observation of the world around you so they were doing all of that you know looking at animals looking at these how does this work cause in effect what all these kind of things which today we call science but today Islam is definitely not seen one is okay it's not seen by the outside media media oh forget the media it's just a horror show then the Islam is just pure terrorism and brutality but Muslims ourselves do we portray like do we accept Islam to be a religion of reason I think on one hand we do like we

like to say yeah of course Islam is a religion of reason but then do we really accept it because a lot of Muslims including scholars become quite easily opposed to this idea like when you say everything more to go back to reason like they ought to not clash with reason like it doesn't make sense that Allah would give us reason tell us to use it to discover him and then tell us to obey Him with things which clash with reason that doesn't make any sense like that what kind of a sick joke is that what kind of a joke is that why would God be playing these games no that doesn't make

any sense so but people scholars get really wound up on what I got into a debate recently as a surprisingly I mean for somebody like me to get into debated discussions completely out of character right so got into this discussion with somebody is more discussion debate kind of thing there's no hard feelings obviously not on my end anyway I always it's always fun and games so this person says to me oh I don't like all of the scholar this scholar general don't like all this kind of talk that you're doing of things

going back to reason he said in Islam we do accept reason we respect it but above reason there is something reason is not the end of like it's not the arbitrator above reason there's other things so I said really like what they said like dude like revelation why you care so obviously you know apostates like me we struggle to remember these things so the so I said oh okay that's in you see that this is a typical kind of fallacy going on here for a moment just posing that

story this is one of those things an appeal to emotion it's very easy to say certain things that sound nice these are what like you know almost like what dr. Sherman Jackson refers to us like false universals like when people say things like which everybody likes the sound of but nobody truly like when you say things like oh I love freedoms but freedom can mean many like what is freedom exactly exactly mean because you can't just you know like there's all kinds of limitations within society what does freedoms mean but these are like false universals which sometimes give

off an understanding that this sound nice but when you what exactly are you talking so when you say Oh to me supreme is revelation sounds nice to Muslims Allah this person look at this person submitting to Allah in Medina in the Lyla slam-it submission if only you know if and it sounds like the other person's being arrogant this is what it sounded puts me in the arrogant seat which are obviously I'm not used to my humble self it sounds like the other person is trying to favor God and I'm trying to favor reason this is what it sounds like doesn't it so they kind of like setting me up

so I said oh okay that's interesting so so put that emotional appeal to emotion aside there isn't revelation what he is above all Allah you got to get him to that you know in that mold when he's talking about why he so I said okay so I said so how do you know the revelation to be the true Word of God how do you know it to be the truth he thought Dewey says Allah says that you know this is the truth has come from me that this is the hawk and we've sent down the hawk come we've done this we've

done that I said ah so let me get this right you know the book is true because the book says it's true so how is that different from any other book like Hindus books they say the Vedas say they're the truth the Bible says it's the truth everything says it's the truth they said yeah but this isn't like any other book I said what their books say exactly the same thing this book isn't like any other book so how do you know that that's actually the truth so he said well ah but I know this because

this has got majestic next level level expert super expert level of Arabic it's the adjust the the kind of uniqueness the unfathomable kind of eloquence of the Arabic language I said do you truly fathom all the Bulava of the Quran he said no I don't I said well okay this was approximately 300 million Arabic speaking people in the world probably approximately Arabs yeah 300 million aprox now I said okay out of 8 billion people of mankind 300 million Arabs

most of whom don't appreciate that level of Arabic so this is a fraction of them so basically what you're saying is the majority the mankind could never know this is the true Word of God because they don't understand that heightened level of our week because well no I'm not saying that this doesn't have any mistakes in it I said but neither does Harry Potter Harry Potter doesn't have any mistakes in it doesn't make it the Word of God all of a sudden arguably I said to him arguably atheists would say well you guys do have some discrepancies in the Quran where it says a one day according to your Lord is fifty thousand

years or one day according to your Lord is ten thousand and then you guys have to do that wheel but Harry Potter isn't even gonna have that because just a novel so it's just a story so so he said yeah so you never said yeah he was like obviously fuming so he said look apart from obviously giving me the sympathy that you know I'm losing obviously going down a very dangerous road he said to me I said I'm waiting like how do you know the Quran to read you're saying the Quran is the ultimate but how do you know the Quran is the word of God apart

from saying because somebody told me so because this just means you don't know Islam to be true you simply believe it to be true because somebody told you he goes no because the verses in the Quran that contained a laws Majesty are so evident so I said okay I said come on then like like what like what would you say so give me an example said like Allah says in the Quran that we have sent down rain and fruits have grown and come forth and the earth has you know it's brought forth fruits and harvest

and so I say alright so let me get this right so you know so you're saying the ultimate this is why this book has to be true because it look I'm just being objective because you're refusing to go with what Allah has as far as I'm concerned even Allah tells you in the Quran that look go and use reason but okay let's go with your arguing you know this is the truth because one it says it's the truth - it doesn't have any mistakes contradictions contradictions but then I've said so do all these stories don't

have contradictions okay you said it's not like any other book I've said well all these other books say they're not like any other books and then you said well because it's an amazing error week which most of us don't understand anyway 95% of the world probably doesn't understand so okay that's and then I said well and let me get this right it must be the truth because you're saying God said oh we sent down rain and brought forth fruit and harvest which nobody but God could obviously say that because only everybody knows that like this is your argument are you are you

being serious I mean this is so if that's what you're building your faith on that is weaker than a spiderweb as Allah says in the Quran that the weakest of abode is that of a spiderweb when Oh Hannibal buttes lobby to Lanka but-- i said look if you want to build your iman on that then that's fine that's that kind of tolerated level of islam but don't you try to knock people who want to believe islam with certainty like why are you trying to stop them and

the truth is that people do this because of insecurities they're scared they do this because they're scared that they're gonna find things that are not going to make sense but i tell you i have that much certainty this is me as a personal person might as a personal opinion and conviction in islam that it has stood not only the test of time but the test of reason we me we owe it to islam to

measure it open to show that one it doesn't hold on reasonable things but it does stand this test of reason and yes there will be people who are scared along the way but that is the journey of faith you see look it doesn't mean people these people have insecurities we all have insecurities all have insecurities I'll get scared thinking you know whoa what's this about but then we've got a reason we've got a look there is a sahi hadith you see this is the thing there is a sahih hadith which is mentioned in many

books including Behar eternity and several other and it talks about like when a person has died and when he's asked by the Angels the famous hadith of Munro book and what is your teen who is your Lord and whatever and what does it say about the person that says that that doesn't know he says that he says the person says it begins by kind of exclaiming that hahaha like as an agony he says that laterally I don't know Samir I turn a sayako Luna fasts America Maya cool I just heard people say this and I just went with them I went with the flow and

the response is lad the raita well at later well at the data you did not know what you were doing you didn't truly follow and neither will you truly guide it this is by the way the evidence of all those people who say that you have to use reason in Islam so I think that it's important to accept that look yes there are insecurities and yes it is scary but we are living in a time when religion is being so tested we can't afford to shy away

you can't did you is ain't the time to be scared and there is up until now look each one it's not this isn't just about me each person this is your journey this is people this orlimar all over the world they people are putting Islam to the test it has never failed yes there are certain understanding certain interpretations that people may have that may clash they might find problematic that's when you need to re-evaluate you need to think well what's going on here let me give you an

example like Allah says in the Quran you see because people today think this is a what I'm they think what I'm saying so so many people have said to me you know what you're doing is just to kind of suck up to the to the West this is your insecurities this is what they say to me this is your insecurities okay fine it's my insecurities because I want to know it to be true like if you why is that a problem like you you're unhappy with me wanting to know that Islam is the truth like you feel that no I should want to know I should just follow and I do

follow but I say what does Allah say animal know with certainty so these are the kind of this is the key message today Islam is being on religion as a whole with a capital R in Islam at the forefront is being sliced it's being distorted it's being shredded to pieces people are mocking religion they're mocking Islam we are in so desperate times that we need to resume we need to

take back what Allah gave us and told us this reason we need to take it back and show that Islam is the voice of reason why is it not the voice of reason what is there in Islam that clashes with reason and if there is something categorical okay let's face it let's see what it is why are we you know why are we shying away because that's not how because otherwise people are gonna people are going to leave the faith in droves they're gonna be you know there's so many people that today scientists atheists are telling them that look your religion is a joke it's like this it's like that and Muslims ain't helping Muslims are kind of going along saying

yeah you know like Muslim scholars or that way people are just going along and they're making it worse there is a firming wood yes so yes so and they're doing all these kind of things like they're coming up with things like yeah what we believe what last heady we believe it oh this didn't never happen somebody sent me this clip of Zarqa zakir naik being asked a question on evolution oh my god honestly I'm trying to think of what if you know what kind of like suffering would I rather enjoy than having to watch that like I'm just trying to think of like

how about like needles in the eyes or how about look like Hellraiser for a moment or something I really I watch this clip he's giving this lecture to God knows thousands of people and some guy gets up very respectful to him and the guy says look I'm an ex-muslim I used to be Muslim young lad as in a university and you know very presentable and he says look I used to be a Muslim I no longer believed in Islam and I can't fire them evil ooh evolution like you know I study I forgot what he said he study some biomedics or something at university and he says well you know what what does Islam say about it because I can't seem to come to terms

with it as I can I first of all asked him ok if I answer your question will you become Muslim ok guys well perhaps and then he goes on to forget the question he goes on to cement that guy's cool or he's disbelief in Islam because he just makes a mockery in his response of Islam you know the theory the theory this is the cold theory of evolution and did not I'm a medical doctor you know I know these things you think well and the guy says to me abut gravity is called a theory because it got not a theory is hypothesis and and the guy says no because theory you see theory has multiple meanings

this is one of the things that people are so naive about you see there's technical terms and there's common usage of of words so people might use words in in everyday speak but then they have a technical term so theory when we use it in everyday we might say oh I've got a theory on this technically theory can refer to hypothesis or it can refer to established facts by science they've like gravity is established like why do the planets why don't they kind of spin

off why don't they do these things it's the theory of gravity it's not like he goes over we call that law of gravity right that is a theory in science but then he just went on to mock him say all so you believe we just came from monkey ha ha ha ha and then he kind of has this abrupt ending to this but I just thought I was so upset by watching that I don't know why are you doing this like I understand you don't want to answer something fine but don't do it this service to Islam don't kind of malign Islam you could say look I don't understand something so people say oh but we're going to what

does Allah say in the Quran also what's what's going on I need a solution to a fact what does Allah say little Allah mentioned this in the Quran Allah this isn't a kind of journal like that Allah sent you yes it's got certain things in there that you can take a bow from Allah says that these are ayat fibra little absurd you can take heed you can take lessons you can do this you can but Allah is not trying to say oh by the way this is an in fact here is a verse you want to know these kind of things what does Allah say in the Quran evolution is a brilliant example Allah

says in surah to rank aboot when he's asked I mean in responses Allah says o ffice earu fil ardi then walk in tell them go walk in the earth go explore for Syria feel are they fun the rule caifa by the alcoholic ha go and look how did Allah begin creation go look go explore so this is my point of saying these things that the reason I'm saying this is that P people have this understanding that if Allah saved said it in the we can accept it if he hasn't mentioned this then it can't be true and this is

perceived by non-muslims as an arrogance that look non-muslims have this understanding that people of religion they look at new knowledge in two ways this is how people of religion look at knowledge in two ways one new knowledge this is that one no it's not in our holy books so we can't be true this is the first or drop with that finger since this is being recorded right second ok

even if it has some truth if because it's not mentioned in our Holy Scriptures it's of insignificance this is how people today seem with our way of looking at scriptures that either because it's not in our books it can't be true or if it's not in our books even if it has some truth to it it's got to be insignificant otherwise it would have been in our book look that's not how the Quran work Allah wasn't trying to do that he wasn't trying to say by the way people I'm exhausting all your knowledge after today you guys don't need to know anything I've mentioned everything there's nothing else to learn he never

said that anyway in the book he said go look or think or see a philosophy loon don't you use your intellect don't you do this don't you do this look there's a verse in the quran allah says that he mentions the inner hull economy the inner Helana i mean kulla shay'in xoJane that we created from everything from everything to genders like xoJane like male/female like partners today science demonstrates that's not the case I mean

generally speaking is but there's some there's like certain kind of parasitic wasps there's this what was it called New Mexico whip lizard which is only well he doesn't have a male gender and it reproduces just through parthenogenesis but I mean there's many animals that that just produce a sexually including like the Komodo dragon and stuff like this but I'm talking about those that don't even have two genders they're not many but they do exist so somebody said oh no no no no that it can't discount exist because I lost I didn't know but Allah wasn't

trying to teach you an exhaustive scientific lesson he was giving you a general understanding of life that generally things come in pairs generally creatures come in pairs but love speaking generally to you he wasn't trying to say by the way take a pad and this is scientific lesson biology going down this is taxonomy and by the way you know you're never gonna find any species unless it fits under this binary you know gender that's not what Allah said so if you're gonna look at it like that you've got a problem so yes so this is the kind of this is the hue these are

the issues why are Muslims ourselves why are we averse to this why do we have a problem with reason where did this begin because if you look at the Quran the Quran is all about go out use your uncle use your uncle use your uncle the Prophet was never against these things using you actually encourage people reason how would you think how would you do these things so but this does exist in Muslim culture in Muslim books in scholarship that they discourage and it's almost like a stain to say oh this

person uses that's like it's a slur oh my god this guy tries to he tries to be rational huh like what do you mean that were my supposed to be irrational like that's how that's it's better with you that I'm irrational and dumb like as opposed to using my Allah so we did this culture begin the what the a theology the kind of birth of this problem I by looking into Islamic history Islamic law or Islamic stuff my understanding is that there's a few

things that led to this culture that we do have today one of them was sectarianism sectarian warfare massively damaged Islam in such a way that we today are still suffering there has been certain Cold War's that existed you know like the the u.s. USSR type of cold war so there was a massive cold war sectarian cold war in Islam especially between the Mozilla and the main body of

Muslims now first of all the martyrs Allah just those of you that don't know anybody not not heard of the martyrs Allah you heard of the matter anybody who's heard of the martyrs Allah oh just trying to spot if there's any martyrs it easier right the mortars Allah first of all I just want to say one of the worst diss services we've done oh my god this service upon this service we translate martyrs as rationalists why the hell are you translating matters less rationalists right okay people start translating put that aside

mutters Allah were an extremist sect that began in early Islam and the main reason they split from the body of Muslims is they believe that if you commit a major sin you no longer are a Muslim but there was a before them they kind of prototype in the huar age who are a bit like you could say that modern-day Isis kind of thing they were like total nutters and they were just like brutal and they believed if you commit us in your kaffir and if you're careful you deserve death and all this kind of stuff so they were just exactly like what you'd get modern-day

Isis the Mozilla were kind of they were and influenced by that but they didn't want nut cases in fact rather on the opposite so they say if you committed a sin you weren't Muslim but then they thought about it and said but you're not a kafir either so but you're not a Muslim so they created a limbo state which they called mandala banal manzil attained this state between the two states of Eman and Khufu and they said everybody who commits a sin is in that so they no longer Muslim

but we're not gonna call them care fate but they're not Muslim this extremist belief of them led them to become isolated and this that they kind of and this is what the word art is all martyrs Allah means to become isolated to go off so one of the things with the generations that developed off Martha Zeeland and then other debates came in as well and they became popular for other debates too now these people they didn't unlike the main body of Muslims who relied on generally like they were a lot of hadith scholars and stuff like this all of these people weren't necessarily a lot of hadith scholars so how did they argue

with the regular Muslim so they started to resort to reason which really all Muslims were doing but as a reaction to them instead of the other Muslims out reasoning them they started to say like hahaha you're resorting to reason and so this started to become the normal Muslim reaction to them that old don't resort to reason so what they started to do was to cuss them and to put them down they started to what I would believe reinforce a narrative that there are

things within Islam that are not supported by reason see him you guys are now going against Islam so as a method of control for these people a whole genre of irrationality was recreated and re-engineered to kind of keep these people at bay and these people would then mock even more like absurd narrations or also you guys wait a minute so you guys believe this there we found a hadith saying this do you believe this they did believe in hadith martyrs danai hadith but they would find an absurd one and instead of regular scholars kind of saying well that does

sound problematic they would then just diss them back for saying oh but you're trying to rationalize everything or reasoning this was a key thing that led to I think the this culture of hating reason because this mata Zilla walla lasted for a few centuries but all this stuff got put into books the other thing is you guys have probably all heard of the Golden Age of Islam with the whole philosophy and haroon rasheed and after him in baghdad the darl hikmah that gets set up you guys probably all have heard of heard of this kind of stuff muslims kind of got all of this you know there's

a huge mmm in like what is not referred to as the Islamic Golden Age which was when there was prosperity but it's not actually referring to prosperity it's referring to the fact they had a huge intellectual boom and they set up this place called the house of wisdom and they translated all these Greek manuscripts and and all this philosophy and you got people like Ovid you know even a Cena and kindy and all these great kind of philosophers Muslim kind of philosophers emerge far RB and all these kind of people I'm not saying they had to always be correct but I'm just saying they were thinkers and emerge and

all of a sudden Muslims start to look at things like medicine because it was in the Greek logs and they started to discover things in medicine this is all referred to as the Islamic kind of Golden Age in reaction to this as well because the Islamic Golden Age massively promoted philosophy and promoted resorting to reason so as a reaction to this there was like a dumbing down of reason so I think these things and we can't forget the fact that there was institutionalization you see this is something which people - I think we're

too easily over see in Islam not just Islam every religion core religion has been institutionalized by today over the centuries it went through a process whereby it did become about things like power among certain people where the power was in institutions amongst clergy amongst people hold obviously Christianity was really bad because they turned it into the state so the Pope and the state and the church you know the church was too powerful in the Muslim world it wasn't quite like that because there was never a central

mosque that everybody kind of all affiliated and and the maulvi so to speak never ever ran the kingdom's ever in generally speaking as a rule in the Islamic history that it was never run by there was never a so cool kind of theocracy but the clergy were a powerful institution they were a powerful institution and how do you control people like when I give you a fatwa and you disagree with me he said but that doesn't make sense so this concept of well who said the Deen is supposed to make sense to you this culture is a powerful tool to control people to kind

of like keep them down so these are the kind of things there is fear with using reason and I mentioned before people fear that if you start using reason you might end up leaving Islam you see that is an insecurity because then my question is that they themselves don't actually believe it to be true they believe that would rather just cover up these things because if I say to you oh by using reason you're gonna end up leaving Islam well that just translates as okay so by trying to uncover truths you think I'll find certain truths which show that Islam isn't true which to me

just shows your being a hypocrite like so you actually even know this and fear this so that is not the case but people have this fear that using reason is gonna lead you to I've had people say to me on countless occasions you know oh my god oh my god you know you can oh you know this is it like I worry about you disbelieving and becoming an atheist and becoming this and becoming this alright fine but I mean if I have doubt in something is doubt not a testimony of Iman does it not actually demonstrate because the

ability to doubt something is what leads you to a more certain understanding like if I what is the alternative I just blindly follow like what is why are you so scared of doubt when Ibrahim Ali Salaam in the Quran asks Allah probably are any kafir to him how do you do these things I would like to I will have taught me do you not believe but I were lacking Lilith - Allah be but I have some turbulence for peace for tranquility in my heart and what does the Prophet saying a hadith that Ibrahim

had doubt 100 Lehr be shocked and we are more deserving of such a doubt like if it's going to lead to a pure pristine understanding of of Allah and Islam then we are more deserving of it so yes there are these things the other criticism is you get an absurdity it's like I need to clarify these people say over not everything in Islam is gonna make sense you know and they will transmit so they're going to first of all resort to a hadith no it's not a hadith but an ether of of Sedna Ali

rhodiola whan we said lo Canady no beret that if this Deen was by acolo by understanding opinion then we ought to wipe under the hoof when we're doing like if you've got like socks or leather socks off on her feign then you what he said we ought to wipe under but I saw the Prophet wipe over now this is transmitted in several books things like Abu Dawood Muslim armoured of Muslims of bazaar Abu yeah Allah all these kind of books now first of all just to kind of

clarify that this hadith I don't personally even in that narration I don't accept it to be sorry there are huge problems in the chain this people like this is transmitted through our mush who is a motherless and this chain comes my on but that's there's another person in the chain known as Abu is Huck I serve a ie and now he has although he these are generally reliable people but they have problems with them once again somebody known for that least known for certain things somebody who forgot it later on in his life now this heavy I'm calling

it a hadith loosely but this author of save gnarly is transmitted in in some of its rewired in the Muslim vomit in the Muslims of Abu yalla of bizarre and what does it say it doesn't even mention that part it only mentions that I saw the Prophet do Massa like this on the whole thing now so that's to start off with second most important point if that was the case I said an ally of the law on who's saying then what does he mom Alexei in the motto Imam Malik in the motto says I saw evening Shabbos ovary

and and he's reflecting the practice in Medina now how do we do Messiah over her fame he says we go on the top and the bottom and it is in the Maliki mother to do Massa under the bottom is Sunnah so that's not even the case that he's saying although it is the case in the hand of he mother the other methods don't even accept that so that's an important point and the third the final point is this is rituals anyway rituals are not meant to be rituals as a concept is understood that look every faith has worship fine that makes sense how is

that worship defined that's just a ritual that's not something which is counter reason that's just a practice it's like so why do you have one ruku and not to recuse well it's just a ritual it's not rituals are never by their by their nature are not meant to be an act with an objective except for filling it so but the concept of ritual and worship is in accordance with reason the finites of rituals were never ever nobody demands and I mean it's not nobody in any knot you know like

scientists or anybody says that rituals need to be defined by reason they don't people have rituals in life they do things it gives them some strength it does certain things they're just rituals people have but the concept of rituals is not counter reason so that's something that's important to understand and people then ask okay but what about stuff in the Quran like miracles and all this kind of stuff this is a big one then people kind of come back and say oh my god you know if you believe in this then and I say look first of all go back to the

first point we have to believe in reason to know other faiths are not true because if you dismiss reason then every faith can be true now come to this question what about miracles well I've explained look miracles are like a spectrum right miracles do exist miracles is like a spectrum what you're what you mean by miracles you're trying to say something that goes against the laws of nature against as in breaks and isn't not part of the laws of me the laws of nature are a laurs laws Allah

says we'll enter I didn't listen until later bill you never find my laws changing like that mice women the way I do things they'll never change Allah has set these laws why would he break his own laws now yes there are events which appear miraculous as in they whoa this doesn't make any sense but they have explanations a good example things like frogs falling from the sky in the time of Moses as an example fish falling from the sky is this not a miracle people than what the hell fish don't live in

the sky nobody fool this is a comedy this this has happened this has happened in several places you just have to go google it'll give you the full explanation the scientific explanation of how this actually happens how they get picked up how how they get later on dropped off now this is not counter reason yes to people it may have seemed oh my god this is against the laws of nature because it's not part of their natural way of looking at things because normally you know fish ain't falling from the sky frogs ain't falling from the sky but it

doesn't mean this is not part of the laws of nature and physics and the world the natural world around us Allah will never break the laws of the natural world so in my understanding everything you call a miracle in the Quran has an explanation yes many of them we probably already know we can know maybe some of them people are still working on them or they still be trying to understand certain things but does it mean it went against the entire laws of nature entire laws of physics that Allah has set in his creation then in that case if that's the case like if I'm gonna say look

there but why are you limiting Allah people say to me yeah but just because you can't explain and it doesn't make sense to you didn't mean a lock onto it true but then that means if that's the case why can't Allah make him make Ganesh have an elephant head why can't Allah do that is he incapable he can why Khan Allah have little demigods he can't is he incapable of having demigods yeah you guys say well he can delegate to angels why can't he delegate to demigods say well Vishnu is gonna

take care of this you know he's gonna take care of this don't worry about it I'm handling this why can't he do that then so if you if reason goes out the window everything goes out the way because then everything can be valid so this it's a it see more dangerous like people get scared and say oh my god you know and I know why they're doing that they're doing that because since they've been small they've been brought up and told certain things about Islam they don't know much about Islam but they just know certain things they know certain stories then all certain myths things like demonic possessions Djinn possess people

black magic happens this happens the moon was split or this happened they know certain stories Jesus is gonna come back all this kind of stuff now if you are told at some point in your life while these things might are not true the the inherent fear is that well if that's not true maybe the rest of the things that I learnt and Islam itself is not true as well and this is the fear that people have that they don't want it because they think if one knocks down maybe they might all knock down so I get why they're scared of that but it is

much better to read Islam of interpretations that have come along the way rather than present it like this and have it bulldozed by atheists because they will have no mercy when they tear down the pillars of faith they will have no mercy so you'd rather look at it yourself and say well what issues what issues are going on what's this what's this this is a problem this is a problem and then even within Islam if things outlook and the shocking thing is all of our great more hadith in wrote this in their books they said by the way four hadith comes what does even or Josie say

the great half-wave of hadith and this is quoted by all the later Mohideen including suti and all these people he says if a hadith comes we accept the Asahi after it's met the conditions at the Mohideen say you know all the people have to be correct and sound mind and all that he says then we accept it with these three conditions that lamb you buy number one love you buy in el Mar cool it doesn't go against reason uncle lamu by Anil Marco and he says well um you Holly Philemon cool and it doesn't go against the transmitted sources like the Quran and the established well um you naughty little soul and it

doesn't uproot and a an established principle of Islam then we will accept it so people are so quick to say well no no no no God no I'm gonna question this even if it's absurd they will embrace it they won't look at the great damage they're doing they'll just say oh it's okay it's okay but then so many people would be like well that sounds dumb now now you just made Islam sound dumb now I tell you this is an interesting story where a companion a group of the Prophet sends an expedition of people amongst them is a companion by the name of Abdul lagna Hadassah now the this one of the

unsolvable is the immediate he's in charge of this kind of expedition so when they get to this place anyway they they have some kind of dispute amongst them so this person marshal this person intelligently comes out with a solution to kind of he say like he's upset with them like they disagree on something and he says now this is the truth he says okay I tell you what he lights a fire and he says jump into this fire and if this isn't the truth or something it will burn you and otherwise it will burn you like it comes up with this property you know like these kind of many evil kind of propositions that you hear sometimes so he comes up with one of these so one of some of the Companions

of thinking okay you know like fine you know we stand by that much were prepared and and he's because he's the amina pointed he says to them because what some of the companions say no I'm not going to do that he says but the Prophet sent me commanded me as you Emir so the Prophet commanded you to follow me and I'm commanding you to jump into that fire but what is afterlife not FSA he thinks about this reason think and make judgment he said we believed in Allah to escape a fire

why should we jump into fire this doesn't make any sense he says I'm not gonna listen to you he says I'm not gonna listen to you and and this person says yeah but the Prophet told you to listen he says no it doesn't make any sense I'm not gonna listen to you they go back to my deena they tell the Prophet the Prophet says to him you were right you don't listen to them Latta utterly must look infamous it colic you do not listen to creation especially when they're telling you to disobey Allah to commit suicide like this but the interesting point is at that time when he disobeyed him he didn't know that ruling he just reasoned that this what you're telling me to do

clashes with reason doesn't make any sense so why should surely Allah be telling and his messenger telling us to do things that clash with reason so he so he based on that he makes a judgment and he was correct so this is important to understand so that's the kind of summary of why reason is too important and these kind of criticisms of one well you're going to become an atheist well believe me what's the the opposite what what do you propose that we just hide behind these cobwebs because those cobwebs are not going to protect you

because people are gunning down this kind of scarecrow this kind of like straw man of religion that you are putting up and it is being ridiculed day in day out the number of X Muslims is massively disproportionately on the increase because people religion doesn't make sense to people so this is why this scare mongering we need to ignore that yes if people don't want to look if people say I don't want a reason I don't want a question that's fine that's your choice I accept that that's that lower level of Iman that's your faith fine but

don't prevent people too from aspiring to the higher level of Iman that Allah told them to aspire to so that's the important kind of message here and and as to these kind of criticisms where people say things like well one rituals were yre by that like this and well that's not it's not it's not meant to be like the concept of ritual is what you make sense of as to the actual rituals it's fine people go over if I use my article then I don't want to pray but that doesn't make any sense because that's not see this kind of ad absurdum that I'm gonna argue this ad

absurdum till it gets absurd like oh so then I'm not gonna want to do anything but that's not what people that's not how people think most people don't think like this the most reason and then people say but whose reason Oh so is it your uncle is it your uncle who's up culture let's go back to that Hinduism how is it wrong Oh moussaka your uncle my uncle why is the overly you can accept intersubjectivity you can accept a healthy mind and judgment and now you've got a problem with it and let's not be swayed by just a democratic kind of

opinion held by certain people over time look Allah and His Messenger on Authority Imam Malik said cool Ouya dooming holy he were you rod Allah saw a bottle cover he said everybody we accept and reject except the Messenger of Allah this is our this is how we understand Islam I am I personally stick to I mean I do follow the school of Medina the Maliki method I've studied different methods I'm passionate about the Maliki method you know I teach the Maliki method for I mean I will resume I used to teach it I will resume teaching it and I'm very

passionate about it but it doesn't mean even the Malik this is Imam Malik teaching you these are the principles that look it's not about like having it we're not a cult it's like somebody said to me oh well if that's the case you know you and what's shocking is when people want to refute me this is this is a this is the logic people have so what they'll do is they'll find a scholar that I've spoken highly of and I got aha so like okay recently I don't know if you guys have watched but there was this whole thing about I had tackled I was asked a question about this tree in the time of the Prophet that apparently

cried and stuff like this and so I said this is not established and I don't believe this to be sahi why because how can we hold things like stones and monkeys and elephants not doing these kind of things and hold that as absurd because it doesn't make sense but then say it's okay for trees to do stuff like these because trees don't do that kind of stuff either you know you can't like you gotta have consistency you can't have one yardstick for you and a different one for me because that's called double standards like I can't say well oh I'm not gonna believe in in in this happening because ahaha that's dumb

in Hinduism but oh but here oh but this is all right this is us though I I said this to a Muslim he said yeah but that's different because Allah allowed it for the Prophet I said how do you know a larger than allow it for Krishna or for Rama for these people how do you know God you know Brahma didn't allow it like so because all of a sudden now anything goes now it's just like it doesn't even matter we don't need reason it's just like anything you know the subjective monster out there how do you know disprove it there's no scary monster out there I can't disprove it okay so we gotta go with the best faculty Allah has given us

which is reason so I said this in a hobby I said that the hadith of Jeremy's different hadith about this tree crying I said it's not established okay I said the hadith of a and a problematize I showed the problems in them and I said this goes against our principle understanding of Islam that these things don't happen so and we don't need a crying tree to prove that the Prophet was a great person to us he's the greatest of people we don't need a tree to prove that to us so when I said this so obviously people kind of reacted to this whole thing and

and they've made this whole kind of all these kind of reputations and and people bring up all this well oh oh my god you know well if you're gonna if you're gonna say if you're gonna also this is it almost lost my train of thought so so what they did is they found this scholar that I normally rate as an example I called the EON now he's an amazing scholar from the Maliki method from Muslim Spain and I always kind of big up laughs colors of the past but I you know some of these Don's of Muslim Spain I'm a huge fan of so I said yeah you know I'll say yeah at the dawn the legend

called it they go oh that and it's the dawn let's look at what the dawn who moved here believe calls the dawn says oh look what call the Oh call the earth below see oh look at the dawn saying it now you know um seriously does this get any dumber than this because I'm sorry is this a cult like because I love somebody or rate somebody and I say oh this person is a legend does it mean I become a clone I'll be yard is a legend

but to start off with I said and they start all of some rating called the yard like all the odd the great Harvey the master of hadith I supposed to start off with you don't follow him in anything like you don't even follow this guy like you don't even accept everything he talks about you seem to reject and you've got an issue with me disagreeing with him on one or two things he himself disagrees with Imam Malik on several things as did the ulama of under loose of Muslim Spain or the Maliki's of mustard look this isn't we're not clones this isn't a cult Islam yes there's a tradition we are part of that tradition but it doesn't mean now oh my god

because I rate somebody I can't think I can't disagree with them he was a product of his age he was as much a victim of sectarian warfare as we are today as people are today he was by the way in call the yards time that the thing that led up to God the yard there was a huge there was in North Africa he was in Muslim Spain but it was very connected to North Africa there was these movements of like the Oh baby in and stuff like this and these people were some of them were like vicious and some of them were weren't Muslim and they used to do things like insult the Prophet and called the yard brings in

his book 30 Burma Tarek some of the Arabic poetry that they wrote insulting the Prophet and cursing him and stuff like this now this culture did exist the generations after in the generations that come after car the yard emerges he writes a book on know we as Muslims should love the Prophet now naturally look when you're gonna write a book now look at where the person's coming from he's not trying to say he doesn't start from like Ground Zero he's starting sub-zero he's starting from with his people who have with this a history of people insulting the prophets we and these were people amongst Muslims Arabic

speaking kind of like a bathing in and these kind of people now he's so he's saying look the Prophet is the greatest of people which Muslims say anyway but then he starts to bring so many things in this book like he would tell people like you would tell sometimes young people like when you're telling a story you'll say things oh do you know this he said this the Prophet the Prophet wants he said this he brings hadith which people have said on modul are fabricated in there's a few he brings in the Chiffre which people they are fabricated he brought that for a reason because he wasn't trying to have an academic debate he was trying to instill the love of the Prophet in the hearts of people and

amongst a big book which was essentially in two whole volumes and now it's kind of obviously modern-day printing yes he will mention certain things amongst there which are just narratives just to kind of add that love oh do you know this and do you know this happen and do you know this happened so people are now using that as the yardstick to say well call the yard said these well okay fine he said in this time but we have to be people of reason we can't be swayed with emotions so I hope these words kind of make sense I could see some people thinking well what on earth is he is he on about well so I hope these words kind

of make sense you see the main thing comes back to pull all of this aside whether you like it or not whether I do this or not Islam and all these beliefs that you're talking about are being put to the test and will be put to the test by non-muslims this is happening they will be ridiculed they will be examined they will be evaluated so have some courage rise up to the original challenge take a look

filter through stuff if stuff isn't if it's come through or based on interpretations then you need to re-examine some things rather than just wholeheartedly embrace them and all you oh I'm gonna embrace it this is my love what do you mean this is your look it's not even it's like this ha d you know I mentioned the other day this hadith about age of Aisha thing going on people still hold heartedly oh no longer this this is my what do you even do why are you saying these things to people you putting present in the Prophet sallallaahu I leave salam in such a disrespectful light and it is not true that people generally didn't in in

the arab culture married girls that young they didn't yes historically you can find in different parts of the world people did marry girls maybe younger than they do today maybe 12 13 14 historically in the medieval times even in the time of the Prophet but they didn't marry killed that young like six seven and then forget people you're putting the Prophet day just because you're saying I can't compromise a hadith in Bukhari your loyalty to Bihari is not that high so it should be to the Prophet so this is the this is a message that our one a kind of emphasize okay so

I hope in Charlotte these words can make some sense be a let's take some questions I take a Q&A and and we'll open it up we've got some we've got some time for questions okay cool let's go for some