Mindtrap w/ Mufti Abu Layth 04 [Culture, Covid (NHS) Crisis & Cures?]

assalamualaikum warahmatullahi to allah or better care to people alongside have become more marhaban running lighter bienvenidos a todos people who shall medida and as always I'll get them so I'll get them so let me just check first of all I just want to check that people can hear me that some we've got that we are live I'm just gonna share this from the Facebook page if there's any audio issues if there's any echoing you can tell me now I can just fix it before we

start I'm just gonna share this it's just gonna take me ten seconds to do so alright there is people there is alright alright alright people are saying you're gonna burn yourself up no yeah no rest for the wicked folks there you go I'm just gonna

post that and we is good audio is good somebody saying that's fine that's awesome right people with all this mayhem and chaos and since we're in Guarin thinner are i in black warrant then now we're here anyway why not make use of our time who better to speak to when we want to know what the realities on the ground what is this cove it yeah yes I like Ovid Gurgaon I who can we speak to better than our esteemed guests tonight right here is a picture you can see in

front of you people that is the one and only dr. Majid Chef people from the West Midlands UK bringing him in right here assalam aleikum doc a long while ago I'm trying to since we're in the time of no social contact and social distancing I'm trying to bring the Heather Abadi Salam greeting each other and those that don't know that our doc here dr.

marty is a thickening of rye from that can had a bad people we're three things are definitely so popular and famous for the language the biryani and and besides any other places dr. Majid himself in the words of zouk those of you that don't know the King Bharat ari Hait yeah but history of the kinky that can as oak said a girl girl chain will get that can mesenteric a

trace on that even though we hear that or do has a huge value in that can in Hyderabad which is which you can you can look it up on the map but corn Jetta his okdal iike Kalyan shorter you might see this is where I would disagree and I would say that head robotically oh man I just we have we have a hot utility a jockey with the air who do a he's a banished your had robots with her but

but not here yeah say yada yeah what is this about wanting to rename Hyderabad what the Indian government was suggesting yeah the Indian government since the rightward shift of Indian politics in the 1980s and 1990s to now what we have is basically the equivalent of the Indu jamaat-e-islami in power you know in you know it put it put it in Muslim kind of context you know we have a very clear pratik Hindu

nationalist government that's in power and they want to their version of history is that they have not been independent for a thousand years that they were under the colonial rule of the British and before that they were under the colonial rule of various invader Muslim dynasties whether that would be the moment exactly but they have their own dynasties as well yes they did but the the point being that the Muslims were who of whatever type where they

were turned on God Persian Arab whatever they were you know they were invaders from outside and they were doing Kakuma on India and they gave us these names so why do we not go and take those original names back that is the narrative the problem with the narrative is of course that it's completely false you know there was no settlement out where what is now poor Heather about you know before the the ruler nizam al-mulk made the capital or made report there and

Golconda fort and cantonment death so it's a kind of it's a straw man argument you know they're trying to prove you know they're trying to say something when the reality on the ground is something different you know there's nothing is there something rattling or anything close to the mic I'm hearing some something moving around like some paper or something or is it the mic scraping on on the jacket is it right there I think it might be the mics on the jacket on notice I think it's your your muscles cuz either Hillary nur

Abdul Pamir has the or is the audio better now if the audio is better right now yeah after Shantou get those thoughts it's so shocking to see I mean just what this just came straight to my mind because obviously you're very acquainted with for those who don't know hamari party doctor obviously Hyderabad not the Pakistani Hyderabad that Kim is in the Indian Hyderabad so you're very acquainted with the kind of geopolitics there as well as well as

being a man of many talents as well as being a consultant doctor as well but I thought since that just came up that's very it is a sad state of affairs a lot of what is happening I know there was the whole you know with the CIA thing and then there was the or the cab if you want to call it cab and the whole counter backlash the Shaheen bug thing but now with corona virus has that all settled in India is a people what's what's the status quo see the government and Narendra Modi the kind of the strong right-wing strongman who was the PM

there at the moment he is very much fond of the grand gesture right the way the implementation of it he's not that interested in but the grand gesture the bold move so his bold move has been to basically put the entire country on quarantine on you know on lockdown a lockdown more severe than what we're seeing here our lockdown Muslim more similar to what the Chinese had what the Italians have you know a proper curfew if you're and if you're out and it's enforced you know the police out with

their lackeys and whatever and in this situation I think tip John Key para para Tina yeah these these things go into the background you know these are kind of times of you could almost call it national unity but unity because of the act of necessity you know you know you you need to mean if you look at the British example here as well you know where does anybody does anybody talk about brexit now is anybody wondering about the Labour's leadership election

anything like that no because there are far bigger things that play and there are bigger things to be concentrating on so similarly in India as well I think that a lot of the stuff that was going on with the NRC with the NPR citizenship amendment act protests XYZ I think a lot of that has been it's it's all have to stop whether you're pro or anti because the necessity of the hour at the moment is you know to try and stop the spread of

this you know very infectious virus and you know with the kind of hygiene standards and the kind of dense population in India you know it could really be a complete disaster you know you know if we were if we were to see you know a major outbreak there and as you know and as usual most people on here know there's a lag time from between from initial cases to full exposure you know and so in one sense you could say that because he's in the position the Prime Minister Narendra

Modi's in the position of being this kind of strong man right-wing populists I know that larger majority on his back he can put in these more draconian measures I just feel bad for the large proportion of labor and non skilled workers in India who literally are daily laborers you know you work the day you get a hundred two hundred rupees you have your dinner in the evening you know and the what's gone what's going to happen with to those so you know Bakari himesh are very be you know they are the

ones who always suffer in these situations I think we'll know the results of whether it worked or not in a couple of weeks time I mean it it is it's something it's amazing because it's only a matter of weeks really if we backtrack it was almost just a fantasy this what the world is now seeing and I mean it's um you know when you just think about it that in in and of itself questions the nature of reality with the capital are like I mean there was an interesting

article on the BBC News website which said the month that changed everything you know that on the 28th of February what were we thinking we were thinking about brexit we were thinking about the new budget you know we were thinking about the new Labour leadership election we were thinking about what's Trump doing with China and all this kind of and now here we are four weeks later in you know basically virtual quarantine

only being allowed out of your houses for an hour a day or for bare essentials and you know it is it does make you think and they were and in the article had a very good point which says that history may well be divided in the future into BC and AC before Corona and after Corona and that sounds very kind of apocalyptic doc well I mean scary

almost there are okay I mean I should I should put a disclaimer first before I say anything further of course everything that I say are my own views they did not represent that of any government any Hospital any hospital trusts anything anything of any sort I am a doctor I work in the NHS I know exactly what the challenges are and the difficulties are and I also know the sterling work that the NHS staff of

been doing I know for a fact that many people were brought to tears by the spontaneous applause that was done a couple of days ago and you know we must we must thank Allah actually I must rank Allah that we live in a country which has a national health system which which has these kinds which has these things in it you know whenever I talk about so whenever I'm talking about this I'm talking about my own personal opinions the government advice is out there online and and be disseminated there's been a lot of

commentary about whether what was done before was correct whether it was done couldn't the situation have been managed better there's discussions about where the coronavirus came just to reiterate - or just to be clear with our viewers that this obviously dark dr. Majid these are his personal opinions they're not representative of where he's working where he may have been working no kind of institution so just as a very clear and transparent disclaimer and also I want to just quickly put in the dr.

Majid is one of the unsung heroes of this country that are currently on the front line so dr. mattad first of all I just want to express my gratitude to you yard you're saving lives had much-loved geo military our reward is thought only from Allah as I think the quote comes from Imam Shafi'i you can correct me if I'm wrong that he knew of no other science that was better to learn apart from the sciences of religion than the sciences of medicine yeah yeah no ill will I've done the knowledge of at the

end of Dean's or the knowledge of of medical knowledge base yeah yeah and you know I I have an appreciation for that more since I become a doctor then before obviously you know like a lot of young Asian men I was kind of pushed towards you know certain careers as um see my daughter always has to say Salaam whenever I'm being a podcast Salaam

Leila still awake as well watching her iPad but gobble-gobble now a mini-mom a car to me she's telling me them because the clocks are going forward Allah they have to advise you see the Margay that's it that's you see I have to call my younger ones are I called her at I be married at the Apatow abuelita I saw this meme which said that they've got

this picture of this man and he says the woman a woman who could tell me what to do isn't even born and then it says four years later and he's there with this little girl his daughter and he's like all dressed up as she's kind of saying to you it is amazing isn't it the the power the daughters have over their fathers it's so no way around their fingers I mean I've got you know I've got to I've got two boys mashallah and then I've got my my daughter and there

is a qualitative difference you know if the boys come up to me is dying you know making demands it's kind of like oh you know shut up then I'll show you the back of my hand laughs father Cobra tonypop getting notes we are not condoning the symbolism symbolism seco jello metaphor but yeah ya know so I mean again back to I was a trying to say was that um III I do

genuinely believe that the this country is going to when we when we emerge inshallah from this crisis we will be a fundamentally different nation I for I now give the example so you want to add still about your daughter having you wrapped around your finger pakhi birthday that's a done deal what am i let me tell ya know I mean the know what I mean is about you know going back to the fret on a pirate yeah you know like for example you know when you look

at the measures that the Chancellor you know the Yorkshire lad I'd like to point out yes I worked for many years he that measures that he's put out are very similar to a universal basic income something that you know what do you think like that so what I mean so what so what I mean by that so there is a policy amongst left-wing circles amongst the the more more hard left the more you know the korbinites if you would like

which basically said that the best way to poverty and of opportunity and society is to give everybody an income you don't give them benefits you give them an income you give them how would they they don't work you mean you just give them money and then on top of that if they work they work if they don't work they don't work a cha cha yeah and so you know you know you can see on your back I don't know how I know yeah I'm not a Bulbul I'm pretty much that was the response by most of the you know politicians including on the on the

Left well obviously by the Tories you know what kind of magical money tree are you talking about we can't just make print money and just give it you know people sitting around doing nothing blah blah blah but actually look what's happened in you know these last week last two weeks the government has offered to pay self-employed people what they would be earning up to two-and-a-half grand because you know because of the fact that they can't work because of coronavirus they are paying staff up to eighty percent of their wages as grants yeah so which is about what two grand

again all right so so what so but I want to ask are they I mean I've heard messages from people and I I've kind of seen things online I've heard the announcement made by what's it's for me Rishi right okay sue now so now I've heard that and I've seen that but I've not seen clear guidelines for how people can actually do that like they haven't actually as far as I'm aware they have made the announcement but is it actually real as in isn't happening so I think that's a very fair point what you have

to understand is that a policy like this would normally take six months eight months to be formulated and you know fleshed out and you know be released to the public okay and even then there's no guarantee that it would work out very well a very good example of this is universal credit universal credit I mean was beset with problems you know even though it's an eclipse so therefore now they're having to do all of these things in a such a condensed timeframe you know we're talking five six seven eight days I

think a lot of the promises just because of the logistics of working it out under you know when you have a reduced a workforce when you know half the cut you know more than half the country is locked down I think the logistics are going to be that people are would it not be easier month would it not be easier for the state to simply cut a deal with all banks who have mortgages and loans and say for the next two months definitely potentially three months no mortgage

payments are to be collected they can be collected from the state now you see because the banks are only a few you have to ultimately deal with this huge numbers of payout but a few banks in essence now and landlords can also make a claim as a post like that and if they did the same for builds like main bill essential builds like gas electric I'm not saying you know satellites and whatever but gas electric things like that fundamentally most people's living costs because they're just staying at home anyway you have drastically been reduced like they've now just got to worry about essential food now you see I

would have thought that would be much more easier to do as opposed to say to the public alright people report claim money from us well you've got a population of you know almost sixty million how I just don't see this being able to like I don't see reality to it that's why I mean what I'd say is that I think the banks have already the banks understand that they need to keep their customers and it is not in their interest for that you know there to be problems between them and their customers you know the people that

have said I've contacted my bank for a mortgage holiday whatever and they've said that's not been my experience my experience has been that the majority of the banks that I have come across all my friends have come across have been very much of the you know yes you know we are willing to you know how about and you know etc so wouldn't it be easier for the them to just build the state as opposed to the state because if you took down living costs of all adults within the UK you've removed living costs for

three months right now and essential bills like gas and electric that you would have already alleviated the and I think you could actually do it as well quite swiftly because the banks just deal with the government and they just get it done as opposed to the public I don't know this is just a thought dad which of your ideas are Terry thing yeah why don't I make my cabinet the old Indian film Guinness star I have a button I'm Kamal Haasan and I think I

can accomplish a Muslim and the villain is father Fonda Capri idea Cory may say you know I watched those movies growing up as a kid I must have honestly I grew up like probably eight nine a bad age I used to watch these movies every day my dad used to play them slow used to watch him every day but yeah we actually had

that one at home yeah you know maybe you should get that kind of Skelly - models have their own ideas equally which the ideas come out from no going back to your point look I mean everybody's everybody's making it up as they go along man let's be honest everybody's making it up as they go along nobody this is unpressed

nobody has you know come this situation has never you know there's those words that are used in the media which sensationalize situations you know unprecedented unbelievable this idea that this really is something without precedent there is nothing you know we one thing for sure we'll be prepared for the next global pandemic well we don't have one I may Allah save us from one of them yeah yeah these some of these Chinese yeah dude much food yeah you know some people in the past used to believe China was yeah do

yeah yeah but they could put that anyone sick thank you stop eating but yeah you know I have some sympathy for the people that century I'm south of 13th century you thought that the Mongols were they yeah dude in my dude because imagine you're sat there in both Daria in your nice little silky place with your harem and they stopped the people that you've never heard of you've never seen with the language that you you know who look strange and they just devastate everything on their path

and this is anything they like they like totally apply Maliki fit even the part that no Maliki's apply in my my legs probably thinking yeah yeah the minute I say Kathy I just said everything's allowed to eat I didn't mean like go and eat it you could do it I said Haram we are really unprecedented time than so you know we can all be armchair critics

critiques and unhealthy debate is good I mean we're it's good that we're in a society where we have platforms such as YouTube Twitter Facebook where you know the you know Joe Bloggs can get his views known in a way that wouldn't have occurred even somebody's asked that am I looking at comments I am reading the comments guys if any decent questions we will bring them in keep them coming I am seeing them cool there's much love to you as well doc but do carry on in the

car yeah so so you know I I think it's the you know we have we are a much more literate culture than we were even say 15 years ago you know it's not a side tangential I don't want to drift away too much but do you think I was contemplating this because I was you know thinking about it I heard it in some kind of by some authors and stuff and do you think we in this day and age people by and large have a like a more developed sense of consciousness then people before just

because of maybe that the way children whilst the neuroplasticity is still kind of growing that they they're being kind of developed much more supposed to children in the past just they weren't really mean taught so much ideas and things like this and now that they are do you think they say like much more heightened consciousness collectively as a species by a lot because some people set the Anthropocene like the final scene of you know within and anthropology of humans just from the Industrial Age to now even though you know we've got the human species I mean

I don't know just IIIi I would maybe collectively I can see your point but I think that's not true on a personal level I when clay Joe was a deep thinker yeah yeah I think if you look at children now they are very much they divert they lack imagination I think so because they are they're in a state of

constant stimulation and don't say dodgy joke here now because I know you will refrain since this children you know you know whether it's with iPads or phones or TVs it's not they're so used to doing something that when even the simplest thing disappears it's like they dad they have no idea what to do but I'll give you I'll give just a personal example of when I was moving house you know our Wi-Fi connection hadn't got

sorted as we were doing and my my children were like we're bored we've got no idea what to do and it's like there's millions of things you can do you can go out and play in the garden we've got cricket bats we've got what you call uh these books to read there's a football there's this stuff but the it and it's like oh yeah I never thought about that it's they're so bombarded now with stuff that we you know that stimulates them cognitively yeah when that's when when that stimulus is lost they don't have the imagination to do things when you

know when our lad you know you know when we were young you know if you got bored you found something to do but then you know you say that and I find the creativity the expression much more heightened than when we were kids I think the confidence that young children have today I definitely don't remember any children from my age when we were kids being that kind of confident to express themselves to have kind of like thoughts like I hear sometimes Leila's now I'm gonna get in trouble

no she's now eight and the thing is that despite this I mean which when I think when I was eight I think I must have been like Bailey a mute oh but the ideas and creativity and words and vocab and it surprises me like I don't know like I think this is why when I was hearing this thought that maybe people are of a heightened consciousness as opposed to like if you went back 500 years do you think children or met or people thought as deeply as they do today but I agree with you I think maybe on a collective

level but not necessarily individually because there are still I mean the other example I would give is I don't know if you ever visited Pakistan when you were young I know five six seven years older and if you ever be so I'm visiting India when they when I was five six seven years old and apparently it was obvious to everybody that I was the kid from foreign I was the Coulomb you know we call him of the variety I don't know you guys do you

have this yes but lesser extent yeah yeah yeah yeah by wallet yeah you know and and the reason was because that by the way more people watching variety more so in mere pore sizes are cash means they tend to say validity yeah the thing is that you know I'm one of the ways that they could tell was the fact that the local Indian kids were just so much sharper do you know I mean then look you mean by sharp chalak

yeah cha-cha Lou sha-la-la-la shrewd you know they there have a jackpot answer straight after you you know like you know that you'd get some biryani and they'd say ohe biryani Hoodman a caballo silly quite and you'd be like yeah I broke this thing that is true I did you remember my uncle's daughter she's to be sir she was probably just like three at the time and this lady is to come to a house and she's to say she say a chappie like a year yeah iconically okey-dokey got a pic economy you guys and she used to think that oh maybe the people at home teach her to say this stuff otherwise how

could she say but genuinely she should just come up with it no yeah and what us you know the Bible a but yeah we were always the ones that were quiet and this because we didn't you got a solid point there is a different level of intelligence I yeah yes so I think that if you're using your analogy of 500 years ago you know I'm saying that you know are we are a higher more evolved level of consciousness well and no I don't think we are maybe in certain collect matters we are but then I mean even then even then you look at some of the

philosophical points that Aristotle and Socrates who were you know we're talking about you know thousands of years ago immensely so I agree on the particular level on the personal individual level definitely you know but it's amazing that people are in quarantine now as a moment of reflection and kind of locked up but people in the past like if we looked at five hundred years ago one thing they generally I'm assuming won't have had is the kind of ambitions and aspirations that young people or people children grow up with like I want when I

grow up I want to be this notion because people were just where they were like you're a farmer your dad was a farmer his dad as a father my dad was a farmer this is you know it's not like oh when I grow up I'm gonna be a something else I mean maybe the odd person thought that but I don't think collectively ambition existed and either I think you can make that point as a fair point for the latter half of the 20th century I think that it I think that it has plateaued since yeah I would say that it I don't I don't see any massive I know exactly what you mean you know when in the 80s you know what seventies you know you'd

have kissing I want to be an astronaut I want to be on the moon I want to be on telly or whatever and yes maybe 60 70 years earlier they wouldn't have said something like that but you know now 40 years after that now now William you know into the middle of getting into the the first quarter of the 21st century I don't think there's much of a qualitative difference if anything I would say that the amount of creature comforts that people have nowadays make the aspirin may make actually dead ends

your aspirations like you do you mean the the breath of choice it paralyzes is this no no no what I mean is that you have so many creature comforts that the concept of necessarily becoming something greater yeah is less of an ambition I get yeah yeah yeah I mean I'll give the example of my my father my late father

he he became a doctor in the 70s in in India and moved over to this country now he had ambition from the start you know my grandfather was just a civil servant in the India of Indian Civil Service you know my father had the drive of becoming not just becoming commie AAB as I'd say much becoming successful but becoming hobby you know becoming yeah but but you know you know become making something of

yourself making you know you know improving yourself as a person and so you know he you know he went for medicine even though he came from humble background you know even though he had to cycle to whatever and they didn't have electricity and blah blah blah and you know you know that was a nun bid that was a generation that had that ambition you know of they could see themselves not living in a two roomed house in Hyderabad with 15 other relatives but I'm gonna go off and I'm gonna go village I'm gonna go by her and I'm going to you know be a doctor I'm being this now if you have seen heart

like that then you know you you strive longer and harder for the better right if if on the other hand you've heard as as you as you know my mother would say Kathy Peter look you know people you know you know people who have you know who are comfortable you know they never had to worry about a meal in their life they never had to worry about the electricity going they've never had to worry about getting the water this town either so then their aspirations are also you know well lights good enough as it is why do I need anything more I'm like necessity is the mother

invention like you have to sometimes you struggle is essential for development yes exactly exactly and if you don't have a struggle then you won't develop number one and number two if you do if you don't have a struggle you will invent one yeah no it's true I mean this is something that I have listened to a lot of Jordan Peterson you know he's also living proof of how Hidayah only comes from Allah because

philosophically he has proved as far as I can see from his tale you know his lectures and stuff like that philosophically and rationally he's proved the existence of one God and he's proved this you know what we would call the Islamic narrative of doing good works and good deeds and you know they will have a good effect on you in society whatever and yet he is at the least ambivalent towards Islam at worst he has an open hostility okay moving that to the know I mean when he has been asked directly when he's been asked directly what do you think about Islam

and he says I don't know what to make of Islam because I can't figure out whether it's a religion or a political system and it in Islam I cannot see what he believes is the founding principle of the judeo-christian model which I also think is actually works in the Islamic model which is the the sovereignty of the person upon himself you know that you are a sovereign agent and you will be judged according to what you do and what you don't do you know you judged according to your actions you know I mean that's a very that's a very Islamic

way of thinking if you think about this you know and just you know going back to what we were saying you know he was he he talks a lot about how the mind has either you know you call either evolved design whatever you beliefs are about you know that process you know to deal with struggle now some people asking questions will come to your questions about cousin marriages and things like that once later on as we kind of conclude on these but carry on doc I just want to acknowledge because

somebody kept repeating the question yeah sure so much yet unfortunately I can't see the question so I've been yeah no problem but I mean we will be dealing with that but yeah yeah yeah yeah and so what happens is that because mankind is so used to struggles and he's so used to be and he's designed to deal with struggle yeah and stress that when there isn't stress he invents it in his own mind okay so for example you know we talk about the mental health crisis that's occurring you know in these last 3040 years where so many people are now you know unless a

clinically depressed yeah yeah clinically depressed on anti-depressant this the other and this wasn't the case before and you think to yourself well why wasn't it the case before well because the before people had real necessities and things that they had to struggle with as an example another example my aunt my Halle my mother's oldest sister unfortunately

died over the weekend I mean I mean was it related to the Cova thing no it was not she she was a patient who she had a heart problems and unfortunately she had a heart attack and they were you know she passed away now the reason I mentioned her is she's you know Monomoy the older sister of my mother my mother's in her 70s so she is just using her 80s okay she was of a generation where every woman lost a

child my mother my mother tells me you a caller told me of how her sisters Oh this sister she had beautiful twins but they died one died at you know two months after being born neither one died the year after being born you know then and then another sister she also had two kids that died you know my own grandmother apparently you know my father wasn't the eldest child the eldest child was one that died at the age of two or three infant mortality was massive in those days in those days and the people had to deal with that you

know can you imagine now right having to deal with the loss of a child you know it would it is inconceivable yeah it's in conceived and yet there they were a generation in which every need every woman of that generation of that household I lost her at least one child at least one child you know so Allah has designed us to deal with these kinds of stresses and they'd and they did you know she lived at the age of 80 she you know her but she brought up her children got her daughter's married off mashallah my well you know there was a kind of a warrior class of people's yeah and now

we don't have those existential threats to us and to our families and to our children's so our brains find something and therefore we get stressed about work we get stressed about deadlines we get stressed about not finding the right partner you know you know things which I'm not trying to belittle any of these in any way shape or form I am a doctor yeah I am a doctor I know how severe clinical depression can be and I know you know the it is a real problem but it is a problem that is caused by modern

life modern society what is it North America you know it's like yeah the mind will just find a problem to preoccupy itself with them yes yes I mean do you feel in some ways look calamities some people are saying the way these things happen there is a cycle and this Nature has kind of gone in that sense almost full circle or Easterner cycle and what and what we're seeing now in terms of kovat 19 is a struggle that

is part of a natural phenomenon that has always been happening I mean what are your thoughts on this dog okay so I I am always suspicious of anybody who starts talking about nature having cycles and the reason I say that is that you are giving agency to something which in your own worldview doesn't have agency you know what is nature I mean what would what is it I mean you know can someone define it can someone show it now if you are a religious person you're a person

of faith whether that's mostly you know ways you know I said no Quran day you know Allah has his Sunnah of dealing with before and he has his own ways of dealing with creation grows in nature like a little heat of deal yeah yeah yeah now if you're going to go and say like that and say that you know you know God has these you know ways in which you know civilizations rise and fall and

whatever then in you know or you know ecosystems change I mean you know the geological record is full of mass extinctions and full of all sorts of they're you know if you're going to look at it from that perspective then I can I I can say okay fine yeah that's a that is a lot of possibility but giving it this amorphous kind of now this is just nature correcting itself or something like that like I'm triple more fising it almost like it's a being yeah exactly it's like it's a it's like it's it's a it's the or the old Salafi and we would

totally you know it's G you know it's the shift of the atheist you know the [ __ ] you know of giving the attributes of God to in at Anatomy inanimate data and how would you put it unintelligent I have sources yes forces describe what is a very good word exactly you know like for example when Dawkins talks about The Selfish Gene as if the gene has a brain of its own you know one can ask is it not like like when we look at like let's take a look

at viruses by their very nature the fact the way they infect the holes the way they infiltrate the cellular kind of bodies the way they've replicate the way they then sometimes develop certain symptoms or trigger symptoms in the host that will lead to further kind of spread of this virus will make them more attractive to another host is the it's almost as though it's intelligently done is I mean almost tell me would you know it's like very yet I mean for me for me as a Muslim I believe of course its intelligently done there is a creator

there is a creator that has created these things and of course you know you know Allah has created you know just as he is created man and he has created the planets and the stars and the moons and whatever he has created viruses and he has created each of these with a purpose you know and and if the purpose of the virus is to propagate itself by infecting you know what one of the things that I have been contemplating and pondering about over these you know whilst you know being in these quarantine phase is you know we often think of the punishment of God upon a nation being something cataclysmic you

know like a big earthquake like you know the way the odds and the mood are discussed in the Quran you know wells actually you know the the writing of wrongs by God if he so desires he can do in whatever way he wishes and if the way that he wishes to do so is to do is with a virus which infects people decreases the labor force makes countries much poorer than they were even months ago earlier you know puts people out to you know out on the streets then that is

perfect in my worldview and in my philosophy that's perfectly feasible so I mean I agree with you doc but I I'd like to just clarify here you see I believe in and I was saying this in an earlier discussion that look as a law says regarding many things including the kovat situation right now crisis that that wo little upstart that there is a neighbor are in everything we can take heed that how a lot of questions that you know were they not certain people are nations like the Omaha who really kind of boasted of their strength were

they not other civilizations that were brought to their knees and today you see no sign of them well you know well Entergy the long you won't even hear a whisper about them today and yet they reigned so mighty and yeah you know and they were so huge and the power was insurmountable and yet how the mighty have fallen but so in that sense how Allah you know that this this something that is microscopic invisible to the naked eye and can bring the world to a standstill and despite our immense power our

nuclear technologies our you know that the way we have dominated the globe our domineering of of the environment yet we can't handle we can't handle something that is invisible and this if it's going to be anything it can bring us closer to our Creator by fathoming that that is something which I totally agree indoors and I would teach but then there is a distinction in saying that is this a punishment from God for people know it so some people are saying that God has

sent this to Pawnee for example China and Iran and and then now he's punishing the world with it I mean I think this these are slightly too different yeah why recognizing the glory and the magnificence and the power of Allah in his creation and how we are ultimately nothing in comparison to that and one isn't saying yeah yeah I agree with you entirely I agree with you entirely none of us know the mind of God none of us know what his intentions are you know and and so I would be very wary oh you know it our kind of South Asian

movies have this tendency of saying you they call la caja China on a weekend Kasatka khakkhara discussed the giant amazing release by Mary Dali etc etc you know this kind of stuff and you're like and you're basing this upon what exactly you're basing this upon what exactly do you do you know do you know the mind of your of your Lord no you don't so I I do take your point that we cannot jump to conclusions but at the same point I again going back to your previous point about taking an abra from everything your loose angles you know looking at it and saying well is this what happens

when you push an ecosystem to the limit you know is this what happens when you know you have massive populations eating you know basically bush meat and all sorts of creatures needing to transmission apparently thank you because I see that is my point that yes I feel we as humans are culpable and we you know people might say oh is this not a time for repentance I would agree but what does repentance mean repentance from what repentance from having pushed like you said the ecosystem repentance

from having spread and contaminated this globe with what we're doing repentance from you see what I'm trying to say is this is not a reaction to metaphysical like for example I've been backbiting we is not a good thing let's say now as a result of that God has sent this virus or is it that we have you know irresponsibly been handling the globe the way we have we've been doing things tweaking things sometimes carelessly sometimes do you see what I'm saying so there is a high reaction no no I see what you're saying and I agree with what

you're saying I also think that the two meanings are not necessarily mute or the two philosophies want to put it that way are not mutually exclusive you know there are times when you know you know when just from an experiential point of view you realize that something some bad stuff is happening and you know that you've done the bloom upon someone before and you think to yourself you know I wouldn't be surprised while as getting me back for having done that boom upon someone else you know so sure as a personal Ramon yeah yes so I think

yeah so I don't think the two things are mutually exclusive I think I think the problem comes in people are too simplistic and people are not nuanced enough right and people you know and maybe that's the intellectual level that they're at you know maybe that's the intellectual level that that that's the only way that they can make sense of the world and if that is the way that you know Allah has given them the faculties and that is a way because I am fine with people taking themselves to account the problem is when they take others to account for these subjective feelings so like so a person like if I felt that you

know what look I'm suffering now and last month or two months ago I was being so arrogant about something and look how in my mind this may be a kind of punishment let's say I'm subjectively experiencing that this is a punishment from God to remind me not to be arrogant that I think that personally I think there is no problem with that a person personally thinking that the issue I find is when I say to you that we are suffering because you have been sinning you see now this I imposing on others your subjectivity is what I have the problem with not on you

as a personal thing I think you're right most of world they do get by with humans get by with stories and to most of all this is what people get by we looked at you know allies punishing us or this is happening and that's happening and if they want that's fine the problem is when they export that and kind of project it on to others see the that would show to me a fundamental lack of understanding of the human condition

so for I'll illustrate in an example if I may by completely different example but an example so you may you may spray in a particular way for example you know you do your Salah maybe you do refer them for example right the public know that doc is also Maliki I've also been converted to the way way way way of Medina the school of Medina through the same teacher as well the same teacher

doc is currently studying with chef city well who I do hope to get on the show as well soon one of I feel one of the most profound minds especially on Islamic thought within the UK I personally feel that's my personal experience but yeah yeah I know I would I would agree with you as well the the depths of knowledge that he has and you know I did then we ideally have a goal me for saying so but you know I see I see a true man of God there I don't yeah I don't see a mouldy I see it a man of God you know and there's a qualitative difference but

anyway so yes so bimba bhima as the mufti said you know I'm Malachy as well but but I would just give the example of whatever it may be whatever Mother Hubbard yes I know you know you know but say for example I pray in one way and person and I meet someone and he prays in a different way okay now that person may have been very much like why aren't you praying the way I'm praying why don't you praying the way I'm pranks why aren't you paying why are you praying like this why are you not

following the Sunnah or why you're not doing this or why you're not doing that and to me my response has always been you think about your prayer and I'll think about my prayer because ultimately God is gonna ask you about yours and God's gonna ask me about mine you have fundamentally misunderstood the human condition the human condition is that we are responsible for ourselves and what we're done wha come come within our responsibility how are we under we are not here to argue I'm saying that my version of the truth

is right or my version of this is correct that's believed to do good deeds to extoll people towards the hug to extoll people towards patients atsuta ather yeah that's what we're here to do so concentrate on yourself you know Annie and you know I'm so therefore I second your point in a hundred percent you know if you want to subjectively think about that and say you know yeah God's teaching me a lesson because I was you know I was an arrogant so-and-so the other you know and I thought myself as the big man and now God's given me a bit of a pupper back yeah then that is

completely you know that is sensible but you then saying no God is punishing because of what you have to know what you have done what they have said yeah the market Africa party a carefully first Berta yeah unlock a sonnet to Morocco but Kinnickinnic hey you know okay quit now why are you so bothered why are you so bothered you know if someone so does something that you disagree with name do it he'll answer to God you're not gonna answers for him exactly you know and and if he's right alhamdulillah and if you are right in the Lamar lavinia everything input by

intention Allah so it's it's it's more of a faulty understanding you know and this understanding that look we can keep the subjectivity as we please but that should not stop us from trying to always proactively fix or remedy the situation so human beings we should be trying to use our culture right now with this current crisis people should be working on vaccines or should be working on antidotes we should be exhausting our kind of intellect I know some movies

have an Imams surprisingly some religious folk have started saying well the solution is I know black seed it's today I have saw a video of somebody saying it's some kind of Arab spices called so mops because the Prophet appeared to somebody in a dream I some people are saying well the solution is we're going to do a bunch of as urns every day and hopefully this will scare off kovat 19 which obvious I mean that some thoughts on this but then coming back to this actual discussion on the vaccines and where are we on that and your insight as a medical practitioner I mean as far as I understand about the

vaccine the vaccine program there's lots of people who are you know looking into it a vaccine is eminently possible with the strain of virus that we that exists so this whole weed 19 is something that can be vaccinated against as opposed to something such as say HIV free yeah but producing a safe vaccine is not an easy process and even at the best of times you know takes you know up to a year before you miss like three or four phase

trials yes to go exactly exactly exactly and you do not want the treatment to be worse than the disease you know because you know you do not have heard that vaccine caused a lot of back like side effects and medical practitioners on the front yeah I mean we see this every year every year there is a cohort of patients and GPS will tell you about this much more than I can as a hospital doctor but you will always see a cohort of patients who are given the seasonal flu vaccine and then they develop proper full-blown flu and are quite unwell you know the immune system can't cope

well I mean because what are you doing with the vaccination what is that what is the underlying premise of a vaccination I thought they inoculate a kind of like a cellular portion of the of this virus so the body develops its own immune against immunizes itself yeah so basically okay so you're right you're right but what so the basic premise is you are giving someone a small shot of the disease yeah yeah so that the body develops a immune response so that when it does encounter a larger concentration

of the pathogen it can mount yeah it it can mount a full immune response towards that so the first vaccines that you used to get word like TB vaccines Yeah right and they would they would actually cause you to have TB very very mild yeah but they would have you would have that and then you would then be immune now for the rest of your life you know because you would now build up an immunity towards that you know and then as science progresses you then move away

from what these are called live vaccines to inactive vaccines where you figure out okay what portion of the virus or the pathogen is the active part that is causing that the immune that the immune system needs to defend against yeah and then your inoculating people with that so you're then giving them you know as you know just to maybe a couple of specific protein chains or specific you know strands of DNA that the the body then recognized so that when the foot when the full-blown thing turns up the body is like on we know how to deal with

this okay you know again actually just on the course I'd know if this isn't again another proof for the existence of God I don't know what is because I mean you know yeah but I mean normally I play the I did that an immune system can you know be modulated and you know if it's something once that it can then you know yeah fight off you know to quote CD Iqbal you know a calm and cool City Cherokee Zoo MacCabe has to quote mawlana Rahim Lambada

Kabhi I love ceviche you know you know you know I used to spend a lot of time I I before I before I followed a mother I was very much involved with a lot of selfies and al-hadi yeah and I must say we we used to say some silly stuff here but you do Bundy's

have really I don't want to get sick [Laughter] come up with some funky stuff sometimes I totally agree that you know it's amazing the I think I don't know whether this ease are at the top of the list of coming up with the most funky store whether I mean you're probably right it's more of a circumstantial thing it's more with the fact that it's disease and and this these happen to be brilliant do Bundy's in general and those are the two

major denominations so it's you probably right it's probably that but some of this stuff you know was just I was like it's the year 2020 I can't believe people are talking about you know so-and-so came to me in a dream and told me that we must not close the masajid or this will happen you know yesterday I saw this discussion live discussion it's on Facebook between move T 30 Saab and a lot much of it Humpty's up and it was like a live discussion they've been found in both of them on some kind of TV show we Javid comedies I

was saying obviously you need to shut these massages and things like this and most eat ugly I was shocked arguing that it the fara in a vase the obligatory part of a prayer must be offered in the Masjid doc what is going on here I mean I mean I mean okay I mean you owe me you are far more learner than I am masha'Allah in Islamic Sciences but as far as I understand it but you know if we're gonna start with the thick of it all yeah in the hanafi madhhab salah in Yama is not further it's not exactly it it's

no more kadai farm it's only it's only amongst the hana Beulah there and therefore you see in the you know in the Gulf states and in sodium whatever you know they'll be very strict about you know going to the Jamaat and you know going to the salon whatever so it's a number one I don't understand exactly where Miley has even come up with that opinion since he is supposed to be one of the most preeminent Hanafy jurists

irresponsible I mean again disclaimer before the haters hate you know I have respect you know my you know my teeth of this money great knowledge much more than I will probably ever be I same with job become this up you know I was actually saying that we should shut the Masjid everything I'm just giving I'm just giving everybody you know that you you know you know that that you know I that you know in case omnium corner I'm you know I'm guy making naked naked

naked eye I have very strong feelings about this obsession that especially the South agent they see Muslim communities have about keeping the massages open you know that they even when all the information about covet was coming out all the things about social distancing all the you know discussions you know they would they would they would come out with things like all the Buddhists all the elders should stay at home and the you shouldn't do wudu in the mustard

and just come in and go out but they wouldn't close it they wouldn't close it because and I it would frustrate me as a medical professional because it would be like you don't understand how this disease spread this disease this disease is very infectious you may be FK you can be a carrier without having any symptoms you know you could meet someone and you could then having greeted them now have the virus go home and then give it to your elderly mother you know and your elderly mother is not necessarily going to do well on a ventilator right in a or

n cryptical care and it just seemed like you didn't they just couldn't get it through their skulls right I think maybe they get it but they say you know like some of our mush a lot the bleakie Jamaat hazarat they've because the Tablighi Jamaat has rather still going full swing as I and they say go about knee yaqin you came here a lot I love it it's like Kovach heavy yeah Kimmy party or hemara truck could be a female you have to this world can't cope with that much a team asked ask them if they lock the doors at night hmm asked if they put a seatbelt on when

they get in the car and probably don't put a seatbelt but the doors I definitely think when it comes to money do they just leave their money you just yeah exactly yeah do they leave their keys are in the open this is not the sooner this is not the prophetic way the prophetic way as we all know is you tie up your camel and then you have trust in God you are here you are refusing to tie up your camel yeah yeah and then then you wanna have trust in God but I heard some of the I think it was the Gaza cases of Ko feet they were traced I think it was Gaza the Palestinian it was traced back to they had been on Jamaat

woaw Jamaat went to Gaza and gave the gave them Coby thank God have you brought aid because you know ate supper time ago we brought you coffee it yeah because because ironically Gaza was one of the most secure places to you know a most unlikely place to get it because of the massive restrictions that the Israelis and the Egyptians have put on their borders you know I'm thinking getting in an owl that actually you know it's very difficult would have been very difficult

naturally my as I said you know you know do you know don't lock it overnight then in there and you know with all the other things that you know which you don't butcher just oh don't eat any food a lot is a flip that don't don't get a job don't care job they may well lie on it come on you know grow up right on this game I can't believe how they why haven't the amis

spoken up on these okay now okay now I'm gonna be controversial here and I'm going to say that according welcome to my world because yeah it's like it's all down to money okay money the Mossad is in the tower looms and the Medina tiller looms and all the others facilities that belong to all the mosques of all different denominations within this country are all charitable organizations okay they run on the money that is donated to them by the congregation's as they serve okay now we know whether that is whether that is Sunni beret Louise

she opened the LEDs Salafis whatever now I and so therefore you know you can tell Nicola you can't clear another year right you know but for so first so for the militia to be running the most it has expenses and the Masjid has needs money and I have no problem with that if you're transparent about it you know let's be honest you need money people yeah so for example for example Green Lane shut its doors brilliant mustard in Birmingham one of the larger Salafi mustards in Birmingham

a lot of experience one of the largest in the UK yeah yes you're right and they could they were one of the you know first to close their doors and say we're no longer gonna do jamar and the congregation of salah but then they sent out things saying that this is actually gonna cause us a significant financial deficit and could you know we would request if people could you know set up a standing order for five pound and pound whatever that we could get you know monthly from them so that we can keep the lights on right now every Specter yeah I really respect them yeah I'm not being so honest like just

being honest you just being honest right you're just saying that look you know we run on your donations so that's it now if but if the other masajid were just honest like that and just said that look you know we need to keep the Masjid going because if we don't keep the you know if we don't then we lose our revenue stream and then you know must lead one party yeah well you know fine that's fine okay but don't now try and close close it with you know trying to make it into some kind of Dini thing you know don't try no dramatic

yeah may you know don't try and say I heard a speech the person saying yeah yeah you're thinking alright calm down this year's Oscar yeah this is Oscars goes to you know some so-and-so mulana sob you know now you know it's just just be honest about it man if you anything you need the money you need the money fair enough yeah you know and you know I encourage everybody one of the one of the things that my father taught me when one thing that I inshallah have told my own

children is whenever you go to a much did any much did you go to whatever you you know wherever you go just put something in there in the box whether it's very nice weather or whether it's a penny whether it's a pound yeah these things will stack up for you on the day of judgment yeah giving there is an art an art of giving any but you have to inculcate really in children yeah yeah I I'm so you know just wherever you go just give something you know so that's that's fine but you know don't try and close it in this kind of stuff at Iyar if you're going to talk about it the most who are the most extreme of the people you know of the

sect's that are around the Salafis the Wahabis yeah you know the saudis okay what did Saudi Arabia do salivation you know NAB the dead you know there's only one stuff now in the Kaaba and that is the cleaners you know why did they do that because they knew what this disease was they understood and they understood the that you know the sanctity of human life is more important than you know the the connection of prayer like this and

and for all those people who's whose I don't care what denomination you are you can hate on me as much as you want please bash bite me as much as you like I have many sins that need to be continued to be got rid of okay but for all those people who sat there and said no the massage shouldn't be closed we'll keep them up and we'll do this we'll do that we'll do this we'll do that I wouldn't want to know what answer you are going to give to your Lord on the day of judgement when you stand there and say that we endangered our community we endangered we may even be responsible

you know you know indirectly for harm and death of this peaceful yeah okay if you can live with that right then and and get and you can still keep your massage it open then I'm sorry I don't know what Islam you're following I don't know sometime you know that's so true you know Islam is not about the love of humanity then it is nothing it's a zero-sum game it's either it's either about that or it isn't because if we love God then we should love God's creation yeah

because God has created everything these things me and you are all this this all belongs to God this all is a creation of his we are the kind of we are the we are the Mojave we are the people who are supposed to look after this okay and instead of looking after instead of even being ambivalent you are actively causing harm to people in the name of the religion then as I said I'm sorry I don't do not understand what the Dean I do i I have I have a

different Islam to you make I'm sorry you know you know very well said I told you know 100 percent sick and everything you're saying you know so true and it's so disappointing I feel sometimes some of the leadership in Muslim countries especially I feel that they almost doing it on purpose so they can be seen as defiant against the authorities or you know like i'm kind of you can't tell me what to do and then obviously justifying it with islam which doesn't make any sense either but islam allah be near okay okay were [ __ ] so your worship should be for Allah your worship shouldn't be to put two

fingers up to the man it is if your worship is just so that you can piss the your regime off then you get what you intended right just don't much on the day of judgment no and and the catastrophe it's not even you know the catastrophe wait because in those countries I mean there's no health system I mean in the UK bringing it to this here the catastrophes though that we are facing within the UK and I suppose the West by extension I mean you're witnessing this firsthand are you not dog yeah I mean I'm seeing

it and you know as I said you know I I - I've been under quarantine because one of my family members got covered and so we I had to self quarantine so I haven't been in the hospital for a couple of weeks but my colleagues from other hospitals and in fact any hospital within the region they will tab they will tell you that it's a it's an unprecedented situation you know truly without precedent you know we're you know patients are terior rating in front of people's eyes they're coming in quicker it's like a production line

forget even that I heard from a brother who is involved with the burials at Green Lane Masjid you know it the funeral service and he said that it is like a production line one comes in one come you know I have this we are we are overloaded with dead bodies I've read today something about a mortuary being set up in Birmingham I know that I know I know that a temporary hospital has

been set up in Bailey in Birmingham yes at the idea at the NEC so at the NEC is going to be converted into a temporary hospital they're also going to be doing that with I think the Excel Centre in London and props to the boxer Aamir Khan yeah it's off to him yeah he think III donated his wedding hall he's yeah yeah yeah I think five million I think it's yeah yeah I think I think it's in Manchester I think or Bolton or something like that you know and I'm surprised there isn't more of this happening more people are not kind

of giving all the government on our asking or well you know did the the thing with the news is the thing with the news and we all know this right and you know I'm sure you know this more than more than me is that you can look at one piece of news and you can look at it in different different angles right and you can or you can be looking at one piece of news and ignoring another piece of news here so for example there have been literally hundreds of thousands of people who have volunteered to come in to work in the NHS people who are

unskilled you know people who have no medical training but their Gump come back gone back to help out you know whether that may be just you know being portraying you know carrying supplies you know donating their van a lot of these people aren't Muslim you know it's cause most yeah you know it shows the innate fitra that Allah has put within people you know yeah you know it comes out in these situations so you know you can so you can spin it one way and say well you know why they're only made

three extra or two extra hospitals or you can spin it and say well you know fifteen thousand nurses have gone back you know after retirement I got a text message from a the sister the old sister of the any department I used to work at many years ago when I was a junior doctor who is retired was enjoying her retirement in Spain or somewhere else or the other and after having come back has now decided to go back into work to help out she doesn't need to do that she you know she's not a young woman herself

she's in the sixteenth you know so I think you know the news or the situation or the ha'la'tha you know holla holla you can a lot up on your nose area how you look up here awesome I just wanna top bring up this is I believe he's the chief editor of Landsat got I think Richard Horton I'm just going to bring kinda kick yeah yes I can't hear it but I am aware of what these just said

viewers can hear it right was hitting cities people were being admitted to hospital admitted to intensive care units and dying and the mortality was growing we knew that 11 weeks ago and then we wasted February when we could have acted time when we could have rant up testing time when we could have got personal protective equipment ready and disseminated we didn't do it I'm hearing that not just personal protective equipment is not available it's the wrong kind of personal protective

equipment what we have isn't even w-h-o standard we're putting our health workers who we've just all clapped here in the front lines without the armor they need to defend themselves they're wearing surgical masks which are not w-h-o standard they're wearing thin plastic aprons which are not standard and they're wearing rubber gloves which only cover their wrists exposing their arms to danger jeopardy that is nothing short of a national scandal how could we allow this to happen the hypocrisy of clapping NHS

workers and yet the government not supporting them to go into that front line is tragic and it was preventable I'm sorry to say but it was preventable chief editor of lances saying that look this that we've got people on the front line who are not if we're going to be he's saying that that let alone they don't have PPE the PPE they do have is in attica it's not up to WHL standards you know the aprons are too thin they're not being provided the apparatus they

require they've had a couple of months at least weeks and weeks of an opportunity to prepare the UK hasn't really prepared they haven't really seemed to have responded in any meaningful way so what do you I mean you're on the front line you're familiar with sorry somebody doc I think your son in the back is he cool yeah so I'll just if I mean if you right so I mean they're saying all of these things they're saying that people you know the UK

government has not been acting responsibly it's not been acting given its resources that it has given its opportunities so especially since doc is on the front line somebody who's seen the reality on the ground he's somebody who is witnessing this on a day even though you've been in quarantine but on a daily basis so what would you have to I mean say about that is that does that reflect what you're seeing is the goal because what we're hearing there the government okay even since it started to

act it's still quite kind of sloppy almost it's not really okay he's telling people to stay at home which is great but in addition to that why is it take action so slow it's not like the UK is a lazy country and it's not like the UK are aren't resourceful and it's not like they truly lack wealth why is the reaction once they have decided to react still so slow why are they not ten hospitals already set up functioning all you need is buildings which they've already got you can fly in the equipment air cargo it you can you can you know

you can do all of these things you can set whatever PPE you need flying in if any country that will make it bring it in what if what you can bring in like you've mentioned volunteer workers you've got the soldiers who are already paid standing soldiers I mean that you know if you need manpower to move things around yet nothing is is really I mean people say I don't know whether this is of any impact or not but like disinfecting the streets or what China was doing and things like this nothing is really being seen despite firm action being now we're in the stage

of firm action so number one I'd have to say that the results of any actions that are done are always delayed so the quarantine eing and the lockdown that we are experiencing now we will see the results of that in one to two weeks time because of the lag time the reason that we are now seeing a an increase in cases is because people weren't following government guidance two weeks ago or is it that they are just discovering or is it due to increase testing I mean what's

the no no I mean III have to be very careful with my phraseology here I think that upon reflection there were opportunities that could have been utilized better I also understand as but especially in the Western world that the general population would we did not take this seriously you know this was the

kind of thing that happened in them third-world tropical countries this didn't happen either fine fine and finally fundamentally the leaders come from the people so if the people just so if if the general ambience of the general collective general collective kind of thought process is of wow it's not much really easy it's just you know you got a mortality 1% that's not by disease whatever right then you know

that is going to chance have an effect on people who are in power I think like saying I'm going around shaking hands with people who've got coffee so I mean so again as I said I think as a populist we didn't take it seriously sure I think the medical profession took it very seriously from the beginning I I was I was a very very pleasantly surprised by not just my own but other hospitals

within the West Midlands we region for the plans and the kind of contingencies that they were looking into quite early on in in this crisis and I think they have done the best that they can do other things as I said I have to be very careful I'm happy working for say and you know if it's a case of having a go at the government well you know I can

have you know no no it's not about just taking a go at the government interested in that just a lot of questions that people have like so one thing on testing what testing more people be is it useful is it something that should have been done and why were the NHS frontline not tested was that a legal loophole okay this is my personal opinion of course again my personal opinion I know the whe Oh guidance was to test okay and the countries that did do a lot of testing such as Japan and South Korea they had a

much you know they were able to control the spread and flatten the curve exactly you know in a way that a lot of other countries have not been able to do so okay the counter argument was that the test itself wasn't particularly accurate it had a what we call a false negative a significant false negative so what does that mean so a false negative is when the test says you haven't got it but you

do in reality okay so and so that it's like that is the worst kind of kind of statistical error that you want you know there's lots of statistical errors that can occur with any kind of you know test that you use you know like a false positive is you know you're flagged up as having it when actually you don't have it you know a false negative is the worst because it's saying well you haven't got it you'll find go home but

actually you do now the numbers that are quoted vary wildly in the literature but I have seen numbers as much as 25% saying of false negatives so that's percent twenty five twenty five Wow one out of every four yeah now I got I don't know how reliable those numbers are but I have seen those numbers quoted up on there in case those numbers are also false negative may well be may well be therefore so therefore the point that I'm trying to say is that if you have a patient I'm then I'm thinking of this

from a kind of realistic perspective you have a patient who comes to hospital with symptoms which are consistent with kovat then testing them isn't gonna make a damn difference to what you're going to do because you're going to treat them as if they've got covered whether they've got it or not okay and the tests that you have there are some serious doubts about it now so therefore as I said I can see the argument that maybe the government make for not doing this whole amount of

testing that the WHI recommended I I think it's a good development that they are testing the NHS frontline staff why the delay why the delay out of curiosity was it just because they needed the staff there and by this way you'd have to send them home or quark to quarantine is that there's a famous quote by Napoleon which says no Joseph do not ascribe to malice that which can be

adequately explained by incompetence and McGirt kakatiyas it people yes so I I my personal belief is that just as the general populace you know because I remember what we're seeing now is the results of what we did or didn't do two three weeks ago yeah and because the great British public or great British establishment whatever you want to pretend did not

take this threat seriously you know in a way that other countries did write in a way to the w-h-o did I think that leads to the consequences that we've seen to ascribe other motives yeah is well it's unhelpful okay yeah it's unhelpful it's not productive it doesn't help and nearly all the hospitals I am aware of had

contingencies built in for the fact that a certain proportion of their NHS frontline staff will not be there because of contracting coalbed or having a Corbett relative so the house those were planning for that anyway right so I think you know makes sense the PPE right you know this thing with masks for example or the aprons or stuff I mean do these masks even help do they not help what about the masks the public have what are your thoughts on this stock because some people say

look this of course it does it prevents it some people say well the useless anyway but I think it depends on the context it depends on the context if if you are a nurse on an intensive care unit looking after a patient with who with coronavirus then the level of personal protective equipment PPE that you require is going to be different to someone walking the streets I've been well well I whenever I've been really obviously I've been outside but you know when I was outside I was seeing some

people going around in surgical masks or whatever just randomly you know I saw a video clip of a lady going in a woman going in in the zorb ball I thought that looks so funny your pee-pee so anyway so the point that I was trying to get across is that I think a lobby depends on the context and I think that depending on the context that's the PPE that you should have and

I would defer again to you know WH your guidelines on what people should have different hospitals are doing different things and I'm not going to say more no so doc you know today there was this announcement being shared about the honor from a government from a government page about coronavirus is no longer hates the ideal something it's no longer or a highly oh sorry H no longer highly infectious let me bring up the actual and nobody seemed too understand what minister meant I mean have you come across this already no I haven't I'm gonna let me out let me

have a look at this this there was something that was quite let me just bring this up if I can as well so I'd seen it on a few let me see on memento I had it right here I'm just gonna all right okay let me go here it is all right I'll just bring it across to I'll try and bring it up on the screen as well just one moment okay I'm gonna try and bring that up right here one moment see technology

people people that think nothing doesn't know this stuff I'm gonna stop the message fool I think you might be

referring to whether whether errors can be as a pandemic I mean that is the only things that I'm finding on a Google search bringing it up right here I'm just waiting for it to take one second see really I need a bunch of secretaries around here just working around yeah they're cool kids

all right got it cool awesome doc all right I'm just bringing that woman girl right you and what I'll do is all I'll get that too right there it is okay now I'm just going to doc get you in on that as well one moment right just so you can see that as well can you see that doc so

this is this is old news but it says as of 19 March 2020 yeah what's the date today okay yeah but okay so it says but this is saying it's no longer considered to be high consequence infectious disease HCI D in the UK is that I mean I'm thinking last year that I mean by the 90 isn't that close to you know when they went into quarantine so what is what am I i I don't know why they have come up with uh I don't understand that you don't

understand because I ready I couldn't even understand what it meant to be honest with you I didn't understand understand that and I especially don't understand that different given the time when it was written it was written in the 19th of March and the world has changed significantly since the 19th of March right so I mean I just bring it up here right so I mean i-i've read that and it just made me basically just feel stupid I was like what it's saying so yeah III think it's something to do with

the classification of pandemics on whatever I think it's an academic stroke a moot point I wouldn't I I wouldn't give much importance now that sounds that sounds fine I mean so you know doc also your thought I have answered this already on my Monday nights with Musti I said well speaking about hustle and burial for the deceased from who are fallen victim to Kovac 19 I've said that hustle I don't believe personally I did give the photo ID does not need to be done

the obligation isn't there and I've said that if the scientific and medical advice said about contamination of the ground with burial if it said that which I think they made an exemption for religious rights but still if it did I said that in accordance with the Futaba of the Egyptian orlimar that a lifestyle mystery ship Ibrahim shortly surgically brahim Allah and Abdullah bin baya regarding Ebola the same fact where the cremation could be done if required but I mean what are your thoughts as a somebody who also had you know you're

interested in religious oh so I mean I will defer that I will defer to the Fatah way of the ulama on you know on this what I would say is that the legislation that has been put forward which involves in that the cremation of bodies rather than burial is not the legislation is not targeted towards preventing contamination it's not there as far as I understand it and my reading

of the of the of the bill that was put through Parliament which I have looked through and I've seen the exemptions I have been put in as well is that it's predominantly because of capacity there is not that there isn't enough space in graveyards for burials I think in non-muslim graveyards for a long time this has been a problem in non-muslim graveyards how did

to set up a new gravy aalam I don't know how you'd set one up but for the government it surely can't be difficult they just got ya know III assume it goes through the council and councils I've had their spending cut over the last 10 years with Tory austerity haven't met so when you vote for someone who considers you to be just part of a hood so my understanding and I I am a monster incorrectly but my understanding was

that the issue around cremation was that if there wasn't enough capacity within the graveyards that the that the local authority could compel you to cremate rather than berry now I am not aware of the latest scientific evidence about contamination I thought it was a contamination issue okay if if that is the case and if is the case about contamination then again as I said I will defer to the Illuma you

know the forum for from mister and the Futaba of shaykh abdullah bin bayer i will you know they all leave it there but that my understanding has been that it was more about capacity of dry than contamination allah allah might be wrong no no it could be I have on that note I did come across they they made an amendment to exempt I think Jewish and Muslim rights from that I did read we should thank the Lord for the yahood there you go God's children God's children I tell you favorite people the

Israelites we should thank them and we should thank them otherwise would be no halal meat no circumcision and no burials make trust me yeah that's true though that is very true in this country ain't nobody gonna kill over a bunch of Muslims they yeah hops to the bunnies aisle they got themselves into positions where they safeguard their community you know I think this was a something that the late dr.

Robert said you know learn from the Bani Israel not just learn the bad you know the mistakes that they made but learn the good that they've done as well although I may well be paraphrasing him sure your doc your thoughts on look this people are saying we are two weeks behind Italy yeah now even though Spain has now seemed to have superseded and potentially become the new epicenter for deaths not for cases I think America has become for cases but that may just be because

they're doing mass testing now is first of all do you feel that is the case and secondly why why is Italy so such a fatality on this matter like what do you feel that was a different strain or a different because there's certain theories going around that Italy did there is some evidence that the virus didn't mutate and it was a more virulent and more potent form that was in Italy so you have smel yeah they said oh yeah I saw there is some evidence to that

says that I think the more likely reason is the fact that that area of northern Italy has a very high elderly population do you really buy that the heist elderly population in the world is in Japan and yet Japan didn't seem to be and it also has a very close-knit family communities and they don't seem to suffer in the same way there's some research doc that shows not research some investigations that you have that shed light on so you're not sure shed light on the fact that due to all the designer Italian

brands that you have they have had most of them are made in China so they've had a huge influx for months on it as it's an ongoing thing prior to this that they would have daily a kind of like a channel between parts of Italy and China and workers and even sometimes there were a lot of illegal kind of Chinese workers and things like this some evidence suggests that they've actually the virus has been present in Italy since the beginning of the year if not since December that before even Wuhan got locked down it was in Italy

what are your thoughts on this dog I mean that that that that's it that's a possibility that's a possibility it can't be discounted I I'm not I'm not so I'm not sure I would bet my house on that theory because the ties between the Chinese labor industry and the Italian design industry are so like deeply embedded in getting stuff done getting people having things daily being brought back all their kind of clothes all of this stuff is mainly made in China it's

not made in Italy itself in addition to this some rumors like this part people can substantiate with the daily flights or direct flights back and forth to China and people coming but there's also rumors about like the underworld trading so between the Italian mafia and the Chinese Triad where they smuggled things back and forth there's rumors I mean that's not obviously as clear as day but it's something I I mean I wonder what your thoughts are I mean it's it's a possibility it's it's a possible attack vector I could it is possible I don't think it's

ever provable of course of course I mean to prove something is there is something else do you feel that Italy is an an anomaly or is the Italy an inevitability I think Italy is that all the standard the standard model the standard model but yet we see it not you know the country's not taking sued South Korea Japan a signatory south as South Korea and Japan had a completely different approach to encode bid when it first came they had a completely

different approach they could the approach that Italy had is very similar to the approach that Spain and a lot of European countries I mean what is it that the other countries did that was more effective early early recognition they locked down early testing they took it seriously they saw it and they took it seriously whilst uh as I said maybe out of a sense of complacency Western Europeans were a bit kind of you know this doesn't happen to us yeah I think it does make it's one thing that coronavirus has shown is that viruses

aren't racist yeah it does it's I mean on that know also what are your thoughts on how you see if this virus is detected on us as the Chinese reports say the first of December means it must have been promised have been in existence in since November at the at the you know that the late is really if not earlier now Wuhan goes into lockdown just this year right so it's had several weeks of

operation you know maybe between one to two months of operation this virus has had how have the has the rest of China not being infected so bad how does that happen number one do you necessarily believe the integrity of the figures from the Chinese Communist Party I don't but I do believe that it will be like if the whole of China was on lockdown okay so that's point number one point number two is that China's population is vastly concentrated along its eastern seaboard

okay and those provinces and Shenzhen more Tensei yeah yeah yeah you know it was not locked down though now Shannon had no fair point but when you go out west towards Tibet towards the Shenyang you know the Reapers live you know when you go out west that way or when you go out north up towards near the North Korean and Russian borders those are see much less sparsely populated much less industrialized you

know there's been um there has and even in places within the interior there's been big migrations from rural to urban centers so it wouldn't again it wouldn't surprise me and the thing is you can't you can't just anything that comes from China you can't trusty as in their official sources you have no idea do you not feel that this came out of a Wuhan lab by accident it's a possibility because I feel that look China's level for biotech lab is just a

20-minute drive from the web market yeah this lab is China's only lab that deals with fatal lethal viruses and it's actually one of its pioneering work has been on and this is on it's nothing hidden it's way it did some global recognition work on coronaviruses in 28 I think a few years back is it not more likely that a person gets infected from the accidently he is the true patient zero from which you know clusters emerge maybe in the wet markets when he's there and stuff like this if this be the case because then China would have known I mean they did share the genome structure

very very rapidly but they would have known this from the get-go and they may even have potential antidotes that they are using but not sheering even if they are have a lot of risks for example what are your thoughts on this number one again it's a possible theory number two it's not a provable theory number three it it what it is known that this virus does exist in bats it is known that bats are sold at the web market you know but there are markets all over China I I agree I agree I agree

uh maybe this is the anesthetist in me yeah sometimes I'm not bothered about where something came from or how something happened I want to deal with the situation as it is you know I you know I'm a person who has a problem-solving mentality right so I at the moment what we have is a highly infectious virus that is affecting a lot of people that has a significant mortality rate in people who are elderly

and with comorbidities and I think our intellectual and other kind of efforts should be put forward in that in that vein you know to try and deal with the problem rather than looking into theories of how do you it originated because I don't know what value that would give us at this moment in time once the you know in the aftermath of

the zombie apocalypse we can have a proper post post mortem as they would say in India of how why and all this but at this moment in time the priority I feel has to be on the treatment of patients the did the stopping of the spread etcetera rather than I mean these are interesting on these interesting speculations to happen either I suppose you know since we are all in quarantine and we are all you know getting bored probably there's only so much Netflix you can watch you know

that's why this mind trap king of treatments doc your thoughts on hydroxychloroquine being used and being kind of like sized up by Donald Trump and some of the countries what are your thoughts on on this I know that there are a number of trusts in the UK who are trying the use of hydroxychloroquine where whether it works we don't know there seems to be some evidence some

good somehow you know what's the word on to them looking for some promising evidence that it is helpful in certain cases I don't believe a word that Donald Trump ever says so the Friday so the fact that he's picking it up it's probably got shares in a company that makes I think he's modeling with his whole economy being shut down because America is so huge and such an industrial state to shut it all down oh don't get me started on Donald Trump

it's already cool past three on on treatments doc you know this this this these questions here that look realistically speaking if the NHS let's say in the UK when people come in that have Co feed that are elderly that are part of the the kind of volatile group that they sank that the vulnerable group they old whatever potentially quite serious if they boosted them up with all kind of immune boosting drugs in honesty

and use these kind of drugs like hydrochloric weaned or other things or even anything that would boost the immune system proactively would they not slash the death rates by 50% I feel they would I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at things but is it not a realistic one and a practical one why not book it I guess so so the first thing that a doctor is supposed to do is for first cause no harm okay so you have no idea whether this concoction of stuff that you're going to be giving them is going to harm them

that's right and they are dying so they know so that's why well okay if you want to get into the economics of it all right the there is a specific part of money right there's a large pot where it's the specific part of money which you have to allocate your staff your equipment your resources effectively improperly to look after your patients now is it more sensible to be exploring

novel alternative therapies or doing that which you know works with the facilities that you have so I think that it's it's overly simplistic and not scientifically validated to come up with something like that drugs vary massively in cost a tablet of aspirin 300 milligram tablet of aspirin

which has been shown to decrease mortality if you're high if you have one while you are having a heart attack costs one pence per tablet a anti immune [Music] injection for say something like rheumatoid arthritis concore can cost ten thousand per course so I think that's a bit of a tip that I think I could just say doc like there was certain countries did have this methodology yeah like I know India's amongst them I know South Korea was

amongst them I think Australia that they weren't just it's working on vaccines and whatever but they were exploring these kind of options like kind of juicing them up with different things like there were certain studies that and here was one that there was a drug Caleta that was used on patients in South Korea now even though it was shown as not effective against kovat but the results showed that the study the death rate in collector of patients was 15% at day 28 versus 27.1% amongst placebo patients

now so people were saying that even though these drugs and that's my point that even though some of these drugs are not killing Cove aid but they are slowly slashing the death rate now you see so this is my point I do understand it's about money I do understand but really how many patients are you even dealing with on a national scale you're not dealing with those that are fake like coming into hospitals you're not even dealing with yeah you know like fifty thousand you're not even dealing so right now currently it would just be in several thousands that you're dealing with in there are you know so

serious it wouldn't be that expensive I know in the UK there's a lot of red tape they can't I don't want to make come across the saying that this is a purely economic argument it's not a it's not a purely economic argument you know if the if the money is the issue yeah yeah okay I'm coming okay so I I don't want to I don't want you to come across that I'm just saying that oh we ain't got the

money to do it we haven't got the money to do that frankly you know whenever you do a treatment you have to have evidence I the paper that you quote I I haven't read I haven't drilled into the details I think that you know fifteen percent or twenty seven percent you know that's yeah yeah yeah you know what what kind of sample sizes are we looking at what kind of null hypothesis what kind of validations are we looking at what is

looking I agree with you the boxes but my point is that you need stronger evidence if you're going to do something because you don't want a situation where you do you know maybe you know these things that these jugs and risks of their own you know and yeah they may not die in the first 28 days what about their mortality is six months for what their mortality are eight months twelve

months you know what are the what about chances of probably renal failure liver failure something like that you know things need to be validated properly yeah and if there is compelling evidence that's fine I am NOT an expert as I said I'm also been in quarantine for to me that you are I'm just somebody said move to you a doctor

of course I think all I say is that you know it's very correlation does not imply causation of course not but I also feel that sometimes that the problem is not in what you do but rather an inaction rather in inaction and that we you see it's we're not doing and it seems to be our managed if I can say that seems to be the problem not the lack of resources or the ability it seems to be the methodology is not my biggest problem in our methodology also

we didn't take it seriously and for what about now we still not take me seriously no I think what I add either that I mean we're not acting there's still a lack of action this is lack of acts we on about money there's a pretty quarantine you can't [Laughter] I'm having to you know trying to entertain three kids are home divorce rates have gone through the roof I tell you some of the memes I've been coming

up in hilarious that in nine months time there's going to be a baby boom 2033 so we know wonders the quarantine ages but there will only be firstborn children yeah because people with more than one who already got children speaking on

that on children a lot of people have been asking this question on yeah I understand we've got some questions you better get south any questions we can fire through people we'll try and get some rapid round we've been going on keeping dark awake in an extended session yeah doc isn't a vampire like us yeah have mercy on our front line stuff done we are my mom Willie to my buddy buddy right sake I wanna get more togami so what are some

thoughts a one question was about one question was about cousin Mary jeez I don't know why people wanted that but they wanted cousin marriages okay and being a doctor okay so let me say that an isolated cousin marriage between ie that is a cousin marriage between first cousins in love in of itself is not harmful the problem we have in our community in the UK is that we have multiple generations of first cousin marriages you know we have yeah going back four five six generations of first cousins marrying

each other this is therefore going to mean that any genetic abnormalities that are that are present in anybody's genome you know we'll know none of us are perfect before but somehow party somewhere but they are amplified the genic oh yeah yeah another mirror image you're decreasing that you know the gene pool and so you're increasing the likelihood of abnormalities there is a myth that goes through a lot of Islamic folklore that this is somehow some kind

of Islamic practice it's not America in any way oh yes nay hum yeah he is a Chewbacca Nick about this cost a home care thing and it's like bollocks mate why why because it's just folk it's just for kind of tradition it's you know why I love do you think enemies actually intellectualized so that's so that's so

therefore i dissuaded I mean okay man if you fall in love with your first cousin then you fall in love with your first bull in bed you know as a general rule when people are looking for each their I would avoid marrying within families I think that it is better for the Muslim community in general for the Muslim community to establish itself and become more established and embedded into the

community within the British Muslim community that that that they that yet that they marry outside and this is one of the things that the ulama I remember a fatwa was given by share what they mean the Salafi scholar from Saudi Arabia who said that it is preferred that one marry outside one stripe and one's absolute or so so that they can bring communities together and pray of forge new relationships where relationship didn't exist before you

know it makes stronger human beings it's something that was known in fact one of the ancient one of the the kind of Julia poetry as well says is something about I I love he loved a particular woman but he says I didn't mushiya and yeah blah I'll ASL Aloha and like he says out of fear that my offspring from her will be weak because she's related to me that was so the Arabs had this thing that said no more said that other rebuffing Nika that you know marry distantly as a young a difference that you will is more

stronger for you offspring ok this another question coming in here somebody saying about all this panic buying is it Haram I believe it's categorically hoarding you see panic buying is just stupid I suppose being stupid might not be a Haram but it's just you know it's it's your share of what the IQ that I suppose divinely was given to you for some reason God must have obviously some wisdom history you know people say oh this mystery like history repeats itself or history they stand the other our telly the number one lesson from history

people are stupid people are overrated yeah people people are stupid so you know as you say as you rightly say holding is Haram at the mall at this moment is not only Haram because in in of itself yeah because now it has the double effect that not only are you holding you are preventing others you know we must have all seen the heartbreaking picture of the nurse we turned up to the test scores after work you know in tears that she couldn't buy anything you know because you know some is idiots

had gone up on bow you know thirty thousand foot thingies of rolls of bog roll look man man learn to wash your ass with the water yeah you know you know your friendly Pakistani or Indian neighbor will show you how doing all this whole buying as well is like crazy so they I don't know they decide to lock up on so as I said what's the world rule of history people are stupid yeah stupidity on yes somebody had said I hope that answers that question somebody

had asked does fasting build up the immune system to better fight off viruses there is that there is some evidence to show that fasting has a number of metabolic advantages immunity being one of them it's contested I I would it it kind of makes sense to me physiologically yeah that it would but I think it also you'll have to drill into the detail of what

they define as fasting so for example we're all aware of the intermittent fasting diet that a lot of people do that is not the see arm of the Muslims is it that is you know that because because they you can drink during the entire period it's just food that you don't have you know so therefore you'd have to look at the individual studies and the individual evidence to find out what they have specified fasting to be and then you take a look at the results I thought they're wrong I just want to add somebody had commented that look you

know we've spoken about hoarding but yet yusuf ali salam commanded the King to kind of hold for seven years worth of doc so this is where you get you know you mentioned about the people but then one or two amongst them get a bit intelligent and they think well I cannot only can't we have these dumb ideas we can justify them through the Quran meme Hakim haughtily John neem peed a tree mon-sol tree yeah [ __ ] at that yeah because a half doctor which is somebody that would compromise your health and a

half you know bead or a scholar is somebody that would ruin your iman now just to be clear that this thing we there is one thing taking national action okay taking or whatever like obviously back then they weren't nations but they in that sense they were nations obviously the Egyptian pharaoh it kind of for onyx state whatever it was its Empire a contrary saying we are gonna have a famine next year or if people if the UK I feel let's say had proactively other countries that proactively thought okay it's a virus coming let's stock up let's get resources let's do this let's deal with

all of that that is that is not the same as people panic buying and personally stocking up so you've got two very different things so where you've got on one hand a country saying let's make sure we've got enough resources to feed our people that is absolutely intelligent and a must to do is not the same as me going to a local supermarket thinking you know what I'll just buy up all the bloody sugar and all the milk and all on this on the shelf and now my

whole neighborhood is going to struggle to get food or to get their essentials because I've decided to get there first and just buy the whole thing out and they by creating a kind of panic and a social holding culture because other people are going to think well damn before other people do it I better jump on it and I better stock up and everybody starts thinking like this it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy so it is not the same is nothing to do with how Yusuf Ali Salaam advised the King look why don't you store up the kind of national

storage or if any country does that that's that's the right thing to do okay this is the dumb thing to do okay yeah just just could you read a translation well the like well he doesn't know so let me give you an that you know like this is a prime example of why your reading of the Quran is leading to more harm yeah so if there are any other quick questions I don't want really to be affecting Doc's

time let's see today that's still on the hoarding we've answered that felt bad for the nurse people are absolutely is it not permissible to hold at the expense of the Prophet use of somebody else asked that as well well you know as they say great minds think alike and fool seldom different right so I apologize if I'm getting a bit cranky but I think you know what doc it's been awesome we've really went on I actually thought we're just gonna do a quick

one-hour cover some of these things but just talking with you dog has always has been so awesome you know and post quarantine definitely pop around yeah same here as well those of you tuning in that have hacked this you know shook around is a common law claim for your support and for your comments encouraging comments by the way if anybody does want to reach out to doc he is available on on Facebook you are available to it is probably the best place Twitter is the best place to hit

da cup which is dr. know it's Majid sure is it yeah Majid sure that's his handle cool people other than that it's been awesome take very good care of yourselves please for the love of God stay in your home their home and whatever Bertolo get into puta Gaza my last messages get the Salam