Review Of The JBP Podcast With Dr Mustafa Akyol | Mufti Abu Layth

So, let's people Let's move on to the discussion of All right, Jordan Peterson and Mustafa Akyol. Muhammad Iman Mashallah Mufti, you've become a Sufi. I don't know if I'd call myself a Sufi, but this is the path, people, the path.

All right, so there was a a very needed discussion between Jordan Peterson and Mustafa Akyol on Islam, Christ, and Liberty. So, I watched this. Uh I found it very interesting, I must say. I I appreciated the fact that this discussion happened. I think there were many um um many topics I would love for them to have factored into it.

But, naturally, obviously, time is sensitive and there's only so much they can discuss given a certain time frame. Now, so what they do is they begin the conversation, there's those of you that haven't watched it, there's it's it's very amicable. There clearly seems to be a sense of dignified respect. And I think this I really this is something I really enjoyed. That there was a mutual flow, a bidirectional flow um of uh mutual uh dignified respect and a reciprocity

of acknowledging each other's opinions. I really I thought, "Wow, I I like that." Because I felt, you know, I'm not watching a debate. I'm not watching two people taking digs at each other. I'm watching two intelligent people have a conversation like two people would over a cup of coffee and really get into that conversation.

You know, where the real talk happens in life. La. So, and you're watching it and they're going and they they hey, but what about this and you know, this is like this and so I I loved the the dynamics were spot on. I think I don't know whether they knew each other before and that assisted in that. Um maybe, but the but that definitely is an absolute plus point.

So, you know, absolute 10 out of 10 marks for the dynamism between themselves. The topics, I think um that were discussed mainly, they seem to uh reflect what um Christology in the sense how how do Christology from a Muslim perspective, how do Muslims view Christ and how do they get around the divinity aspect?

Now, to be fair, that topic I I I it's not necessarily something that gets my engine going. It's not something which I think is such a an you know, like an amazing topic for me as a person. So, I I found the topic I'd probably give it something um just maybe like about six out of 10 the topic, but I can understand why Jordan Peterson was doing it because he was trying to um bring a perspective, which is the Muslim perspective, to his audience.

But then I suppose his audience are not necessarily Christian, although many are believers. Or maybe he feels that most of his audience are Christians. That's why he did this. But I didn't think most of Jordan Peterson's audience are you know, like fervent Christian whether they have a Christian name or not.

So, I don't know. Fair enough, I I get it. That's why he did it. And that discussion it involved things like um they spoke about um the the the character of Christ within the Christian and then Muslim tradition. And I must say I think there were some difficult questions that were presented to Mustafa Akyol on um you know, how do um Muslims respond to things like Mustafa Akyol himself actually presented that Muslims the Quran affirms the Quranic

um rhetoric it affirms Jesus as the word of God. And then this obviously it would intrigue anyone. So, Jordan Peterson asks him that how how do you reconcile that because how do you differentiate between the word of God and divinity? And I think that's a very it was a it's a difficult topic, but it's a it's a very intriguing discussion.

I don't think Mustafa Akyol gave that much time to it to that particular discussion maybe because of its nature that it's so complex and it's incredibly um difficult to it's quite amorphous in it by its nature. It doesn't really have a shape to it. And trying to force it into a shape could obviously be uncomfortable even for for for any academic.

So, yeah, he he does answer. He gives some He says, "Well, look, this has always been vague even for Muslims." And I I thought fair enough that that is true. Uh he does highlight that um that this He He gives one response, which I found very interesting. He says that some people interpret the word of God because Jesus embodied the revelation in the sense that he was the walking, talking revelation.

Just as some person like the Hadith says that the prophet was the walking, talking Quran. That you know, as the Hadith states, that in some ways that Jesus, he was the good news. Because what are the Gospels? The Gospels are you know, really just incidents of what Jesus was doing. He's going here and he meets someone and he says this and he says that.

And I thought that's actually wow, you know, I really liked that the way he said that. Quran that this word that has been given to God. What was interesting, he doesn't he doesn't mention this part, is that many of us see him including Ashu, the great Maliki legend and my indirect teacher through Sheikh Khubza. I have an to his Quran and his teachings.

But Sheikh Ashu, the the grand the grand mufti of the Maliki in the 20th century, his which is 30 volumes, he writes that this is um a this is a reflection of what is in the Gospel of John. He says that in the Gospel of John it says in the beginning there was the word. And the word was with God and the word was God, but the word, you know, he says that this is it's echoing that.

Um if I recall correct because he highlighted not that you see, now he doesn't go into it too much, but he's highlighting that what the Quran is showing is kind of welcoming Christians. And this is Ibn Ashur, and I believe actually even Fakhr al-Din al-Razi may highlight some of that as well. But the other simple explanation many Muslim mufassirin gave is that oh, this was the command.

That as in be because he didn't have a a father, those who take that view, which is the majority, so they say that this was the command, but then you see it raises more questions because then they also believe the same thing about Adam, but they don't call Adam the word of God. So, why not? And then in that case, why don't they call the world the word of God? Because the world came into existence.

And so it has it you see, nobody really seems to answer this question with a lot of substance. Uh historically as well, there's a lot of um it's quite amorphous the whole thing. It's not structured. Um yeah. I would also add to that. I mean, that they are saying it, but I would kind of also funnel in this that you see this was to show that you can believe that Jesus is the word of God.

You can believe that without embracing a divinity about him. And I think this was one of the reasons that the Quran was using this language towards the Christians because it doesn't use this language for anyone else, not even for Adam or so people saying well, this is because he was created without a father or so on.

They also believe that about Adam, but they don't say that they they don't refer to him as the word of God or And the word of God is really a Christian theme. You know, this logos. And they see Jesus as this kind of embodiment. And what Mustafa, Dr. Mustafa Akyol does highlight is that it's how the Muslims also see the Quran as the word of God.

So, in some ways, it's like saying Jesus was the word of God. But, Muslims don't worship the Quran. You see, Muslims don't We don't bow down to the Quran and things like that in that sense. I mean, unless somebody's using it metaphorically as the command of God or the inspirat- or the word of But, we don't worship the Quran. We worship God.

So, in many ways, what I would have also kind of um um kind of footnote added as a footnote to that conversation is that you see, the Quran was bringing to the the the foresight of Christians that come to a common word between us.

You know, ta'alaw ilaa kalimatin sawaa'in baynanaa wa baynakum. That, you know, come. The Quran is not Islam is not against you. Many Christians, it's it's interesting that many sub- subject to many studies, many Christians have said that the only reason they are Christian is because of Christ.

If Christ was not this figure, that they wouldn't see the appeal in Christianity. So, keeping that sentiment in mind, the Quran is saying that, look, even if you want to call him the word of God, the Quran is calling him the word of God. But, we don't worship him. We only worship God. You see?

And I think even though it is left vague, but it's it's done like that with the purpose to extend that welcoming hand to these people who were the recipients of the Quran, who were kind of listening to the Quran. They could understand it, but they were Christians.

And just to remind them that this is a continuation of the Abrahamic faith. So, I think that discussion was really I mean, it's a very complex discussion. Um it was raised. Uh I Dr. Mustafa does answer it. He does give some of these points. It is difficult, so I don't know how much more he could have answered, but it could have had a bit more of a discussion to it, but I feel the problem is uh people may think that, you know, oh my God, we're trading in murky waters.

You know, I like they feel uncomfortable discussing it because they just don't you know, they they just feel that I don't know because cuz everybody in the past has also been a bit um you know, they've not it not left a coherent statement. They've said many different things, but it's not really coherent. Every answer leaves more questions unanswered. So, yeah, so there was that part.

Um There was um he is um Dr. uh Akyol, he does say that the Quran uh highlights the character of Jesus, the character of Mary, these personalities, uh highlights them very specifically, emphasizes them, um which unquestionably is true. And he also does highlight that maybe in many ways it's better to juxtapose Islam to Judaism than it is to Christianity because there's many more similarities between Islam and Judaism than there are between Islam and Christianity.

Although there are similarities between Islam and Christianity, too. And I thought that was a a very interesting and uh a very interesting point that definitely rings true on many um on many instances. So, I see what he's saying and he and he highlights that the prophet Moses, Musa alayhis salaam, is the most prominent um personality and character that is mentioned in the Quran.

alayhis salaam. And I think yeah, that's true. You know, the prophet Musa alayhis salaam is definitely the most recurring prophet in the Quran who is spoken of. So, yeah, that was fascinating. And just highlighting that there is not just a Judeo-Christian tradition, but a Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition. I thought that was really good. Then there was a lot of discussion up between the two about totalitarianism.

Um and that totalitarianism is really a problem. And it is independent of faith. So, you could have just as you have Chairman Mao, you've had Hitler, you've had Stalin, you've had these people in the 20th century. They are quite independent from religion even if they did have a faith of some sort. But really this is totalitarianism, you know, fledged out.

So, it to highlight and attack religions based on that. So, I thought that was a you know, a wonderful point that's being reminded once again.