Shaykh Umair Haseeb | Qarawiyin, Quest for Knowledge & Questioning ourselves | MindTrap w/ Mufti #10

you you all right people are fried animals have become more heaven in al hamdulillah wa

kafa salatu salam o allah rasool mustafa well I like ideal it in October woman behold our method or be artery al-madinah doctor for bad for salam allahi allah o allah wa sallim become more heaven running light bienvenidos a todos para Dalia Shama deed and people-smuggling swagatam alright we are back first of all I just want to check if the audios all cool if there's any audio issues I'd rather just find out straight away especially in these do when they do now to check with also the

Facebook me Facebook sent there what's going down our Fri people just hope you're safe yep I'm all safely laid hand people just arrived we've got out of kasi obeyed Hannah you're doing it you're doing it is I take it everybody can hear me all fine is that is that all good yep so people we've got an amazing an amazing steamed guest tonight sounded like a thinly oh no right so okay so first of

all let me bring on the intro pic to our guests and just by looking at the picture alone just take a look at this scholar you'll be like is this a scholar or am i looking at one of those fashion design and magazines right there Allah look at that right there people that is a [ __ ] look at the style right that is none other than Cher Oh made a seep all the way from Chicago people Chicago a Maliki scholar and we're going to have an awesome conversation tonight let me just bring in the show on momento momento

all right so all right assalamu aleikum share allah wa sahlan there you are them the man behind the fashion people the nose behind the fragrance and the mind behind the textiles right the chef who made how you do in mind how you keep

right young chef just in his late 20s young a mid late 20s yeah not not late 227 I think 27 28 27 27 from Chicago doing some great work already exploring some great ideas teaching already people and we're gonna get into this book first of all sugar and for that I've got to say share as much as many people have said who've been following the Facebook page as well that is a slick photo so just first of all all kudos I've already said that but everybody I've shown that

to has just been just being wild by it so you're doing it was that like a profile picture for like a shaadi.com kind of was it for sing single muslims calm it was it was a professional photo

we're calling it trade okay I'm with you I get it probably getting a few messages now saying huh I don't know you're on these dating websites it says oh my god it says there's a poor connection with the Skype how can how can that possibly be it's shy town people shy term is that mm-hmm let me just on momento momento let me just get make sure our guest is absolutely fine mm-hmm

and just bring him work I think that might have been that might have been a member of the family saying I don't realize you're on these dating sites and therefore cut the cut the

Wi-Fi so people let me just make sure I can see cher or made sound is low let me check right just one moment

if you let me just check yes right okay I'm resetting the sound for that should come through fine now reset it on here if you just well you know don't tell me you didn't hear what we were just saying did you guys not hear for what the ship was saying or they just never heard your defense to it I'll just I was just saying that the ship's photo is that sleek was it from a dating site or was it from like one of those single Muslims and I think the ship because he never heard his voice he or doubled over in

saying yes it was with us very a very young age doing some great work already just to be yet ivory sets or somebody saying yeah that's a lot better now the yep ivory setting i refreshed the entire we did have a glitch but i i've reset the skype thing so shackle me just a bit about yourself for all get our viewers who ain't too familiar with you know you're a bit of your

background were you from your studies yeah take it away you know that is yours it's a it's you know it's very you know I'm just honestly you know I some I'm just a you know a young student with certain aspirations in chawla so it's been inspired by the likes of our scholars such as yourselves and all of masha'Allah I love a lot of other but I just trying to ride and you know just here in Chicago we have a small space in

the south side of Chicago where we sort of teach and have a small community here masha'Allah a beautiful community snob a beautiful community and I did some work in chaplaincy in prison chaplaincy and you know how many like once I returned back to United States of America mashallah so uh yeah I mean that's just a little bit a little bit about me we continue this sort of you know uh you know it's just just attempted just attempt to sort of articulate the tradition as best that we can obviously the the group that we work with is mainly young people Muslims who are new

Muslims who have just become Muslim who have just embraced Islam try to give some support and begin with the hopefully your holistic teaching and as well as some people that have been on the front lines for a very long time and want to sort of learn more so there's also you know weekly pulses of like daughters and and as well as my own personally weekly pulses of study mashallah with our teachers and and you know that's really it's sort of its kind of like an attempt to articulate our tradition in the space and context of where we are right now and obviously the

situation that we're all in the whole world is and we're forced to push the boundary on that a little bit are we great so we're forced to start to have the conversation of reconciliation with when in our relationship with God and the tradition itself we're forced we're being you know where it's a you know it's a people it's a it's obviously a scary moment but in of itself it's a beautiful moment but sort of that's what I do in Chawla and that's what I try to do and you know there's mentorship obviously so the the demographics are usually you know people that are coming out of incarceration in

new Muslims who have just recently based some a lot of college students you know yeah well you guys would call University College I know it's a different system over there um but uh you know we have a lot of a lot of people that are from there 18 you know it's usually 18 to 35 and it's a solid age of saying that's like that's an amazing I mean that that's a hugely a huge range of influence but what about your own interest in coming to learning about Islam or wanting to learn about Islam

and then you went off to study what a bit about that if you don't mind sure um yeah I mean you know in an sort of in a nutshell not to make a long story long is I actually didn't come from incredibly you know my family is a mashallah god bless them for them but they were never engaged in the community that much you know they had just other responsibilities obviously I come from my parents are like baby boomers so um you know that baby boomer generation that sort of didn't come to dozen don't come didn't immigrate to the States for a dawa they emigrated for the states because they wanted to make some grub

you know I'm saying and and for all of these things so you know I grew up I you know you had a you sort of had you know I'm I'm I sort of grew up in the in the end of 2000 like like 2000 2010 like that so I graduate high school in like 2011 which is not long that's right right so um so at that moment you're having people that are like some people in your squad your family sorry your family that are you know getting into slamming and in like trying to practice their tradition but it's also very like punch you in the

face type of the song sometimes you know I'm saying it's like very sick berry at your in your face like it's very much like a Muslim you know saying is like oh I wonder what religion you are like everybody else sort of you know um you know yeah man I'm just doing my thing you know saying I'm you know we all float on this leap to want to go study abroad I mean where did that come from them what happened was I had to go to community service with my mom was like that's the question why do community

service like here like community safe area means like the courts Monday it was like I was a very typical American kid like you just have one of the things you know that we forget about is or we overlook is we forget that you know young people are going to have young

people experiences period and that's just and when you when you try to you know guide you sure you're trying to control that experience sometimes it becomes very problematic that attempt to control that experience because that's just you know or or to put somebody in the context and expect them not to be influenced by that context that is around them right that's si things asinine you know that person should they have been sheltered from an entire organic experience they wouldn't then or they wouldn't be or an indigenous experience so if we use that term they wouldn't be able to relate as well to the people around them in time to come

like they wouldn't yeah because if they like if you got a child and thought you know I'm gonna make sure he doesn't have let's say in America I'm not he's not going to have the normal American experience of growing up I'm gonna kind of keep him in this little kind of nest or Mouse now when he is you know a man or a woman and they were scholar or they're an imam they can't really identify with the regular people can they they look I'm just saying that's it's a point but yeah it's a yeah it is it's not a you know you don't become sort of part of the indispensable fabric of your community you're not it's

very difficult to to do that it's you know it's it's very difficult to actually become somebody you know a person of influence and as you know revelation is given to our Habib's alehsalaam three forty years old thirty nine forty a tree whatever right but very long time and right now at this moment you're talking about social capital is being built the proof of that I mean even ask if there's an army the how many would you believe me in Mecca Saudi I mean right is that so there's like social capital I have social capital with you but if you spend your days not binding any social Caplan some people will be down with you some people be like now you're crazy that's just the nature of

the world but the idea is that how can you build that you know a lot of times we want to get to Mehbooba before City Nevada we want to get the team of how our the Sunnah of Allah right how are my deals with things that the Tibor the things that are played actually to be part of you know your community and that's why monasticism is such a look down upon thing in our tradition we're not supposed to be right it's it's you know and and so you know as that you know that experience happens I I go to local inner-city measure the Jamaat

machine that was a measure that was by Sudanese shake yeah and we just literally there it is they give you a food and I'm not sort of my best friend there is well till this day who's sort of my best friend slash mentor slash teacher / my big brother Andy Michael slice mashallah I don't know how Michael's voice yeah mashallah and he's he's a you know one of the unsung heroes of his whole life has been dedicated to literally taking care of Clarence like his whole life his whole life is to take care of new Muslims which is now

extending over to recommitting Muslims what we call recommitting Muslims because the experience of the recommitting Muslim or the one that was born a Muslim right and and the one that converts to Islam that experiences those lines are blurred now but living in time where those lines are very blurred right a lot of people that are born into a psalm have a very similar convert experience save some other variables right give him variable so I meet him and you know he starts to work I basically start just hanging out with this dude I become his little uh you know sidekick so to speak and just you know hanging out with them and and I and

I remembered sitting in this whole like tiny man I'm telling you still exists called budget that was on the west side of Chicago so anybody that visits Chicago can go visit it literally the names I mean it's the name like little reeks of the victim imagine the Imam Allah bless him remember dinner happy Jesus Sudanese Imam he basically said I wanted to learn like Koran at a very young age but I also wanted to learn like I was always interested in like just wanted to learn did I asked and what can I learn and he

said you come noodle Quran this time and in this time you look you can come after fajar learn Quran so I take the train blue line to the Masjid and meet him after fajar and I wanted to pay money but he would never take money so instead I would just get Dunkin Donuts which is like a doughnut place for him which is PI not in retrospect buy another thing I did I forgot some healthier but so you contributed to his diabetes but you know that was it we just have breakfast and he would teach and we ran whatever to the point where I got so close that we would and he was chaplain would go

Chaplin work at the prison okay and he would literally the way he said you this way I guess this was interesting lineup he's go to book was bid item usted Doucette book which is interesting but also mind you it was way over my head as the young I'm like what words you know more PowerPoint presentation say coloring in book you know same here in

here yeah that's a coloring page you're like great I've done this thing here with this rock they like no bro that was the TM um rock so but he used to drive me around in his car and like used to run errands all day and I choose in read to him and that was my beginning so like there would be shared from the car and I'm just sitting there with my book reading to him like all day like and

that was no experience and and at that moment I think it's like 2012 or something like that I had to break up asked my parents if I could go study Arabic for like two months and I'm already studying a little bit of Arabic here and they were very broken Arabic just to get by Bobby some you know PI get schooled by some Sunday school kid in that you know and you know I was focusing just one of them you know memorize school and to do my prayers properly and all of these different things right obviously you go through different ideologues at this time etc

etcetera you know as we all but which is dope you know it's whatever it's party experience it happens and it's a and you know you benefit and sort of try to you had it's like sort of the Carter I feel that's all the better if it's done at a younger age you know when a person is still later to develop and I mean I suppose it's good to have gone through that in life anyway sometimes if it happens at a later age in life it's just you're kind of like almost going through your teenage version of Islam at a later age

in life like if a person I don't know in his 40s 50s now started you know going from group to group and discovering Islam and no it's it's still good but I'm just saying it's something which if you've been through that you know worn the t-shirt done it at a younger age you've kind of matured from it and you have an opportunity to move for just just a thought but ya know I had eclectic teachers if that's the word or mentors at the time I I don't want to say you know some of them actually read would which are some people that are know a lot of them are not like known internationally which I said which one is remembered another is a professor at Loyola I named all my Mo's are fragile

have you heard of them before the whole just the chocolate in the chaplain for EM class remember you know that book I'm s Abdul Halim paren yes it's a blue one so they had a class that they would do at this place called American Islamic college okay and then every then I was just hit him up was I didn't you know and he was you know I said can I said he

said yeah commit like we'll meet up at a Starbucks after provide your time or something and I should drive there and just have coffee and and just go through like literally the Fatiha itself the touch Syria I did that so now it's my first thing I realized like how hard it is because if like the first three verses of Fatiha took at least four months to get past it I was like you know that's it or just recitation tafseera tipsy upstair class right and I'm like oh it's my first right experience with those things and that's what my mom and daddy said I wanna go study study Arabic I want to know her right and they go they go what your background isn't it

Indian yeah I'm particularly Madrasi is very important for himself in you know the hot vindaloo the Madrasi it's no choice Chili's Chili's isn't it yeah yeah what if you known for a life like me generally like a curry when it's Madras it's like quite hot usually yeah yeah our food is healthier and northing okay a lot less butters more water based food much um you know it's very very thin

ship speaks the guys CV for God's sake come on guys and I just figuratively but literally the black sheep I've seen movies isn't that what the guy takes out

the banana slices we don't know you guys make fun of that cuz you guys live in the horizontal we live in the cosmological everything bananas so your parents they were they said all right they said

they said you better go to medical school what they said but so they didn't get it I'd like every other DC family better become a doctor yeah and it was not out of like being a haters or anything they were just like we just want you to have food on the table you know I'm saying we want you to have a career like you need be taking care of that was it was never out of like it was never added like like I hate it would my dad in my mom had never been like haters in that regard I think they grew into a later obviously retrospectively I also they don't understand that world given a saying like they don't they never got that world like that's a horrible proposition to make to people

that don't eat I'm saying you want to go to the middle of the what the desert or to go study something with what like and there's no you know you know when I said to my parents many years ago when I was probably about seventeen as well when I thought okay I want to study I watch that hums a use of video got quite zealous over it and he made this video years ago called yeah along with Dean like revival of the Islamic Sciences wheeze in this tent with Chef Morabito Hajj and he's doing the whole recording and I thought you know what I'm gonna study properly I'm gonna I was already studying Arabic a bit and I thought you

know what I'm gonna go off travel when I told my parents they hit the roof I mean all hell broke loose yeah yeah which isn't expected and you know the first I think one of the for anybody that you know how's that conversation the first thing is just being patient with your folks about this because I just don't get it a lot of them you know like the Will Smith's song parents just don't understand it's that it's that is that idea was like obviously they don't comfort that way you know I was fortunate I've never had any parents never like never spoke to me I know know

those things like that mashallah so he said the only thing that happened was I they said what are you gonna go I said well the place to go to the study Arabic in for all of it at that time was Egypt right that was a place okay if I was like Egypt I really wanted to study here that just happened to be the place but then the Arab Spring started so they were like no cuz I don't know how good cuz you know I ask people now they're like it wasn't that bad but like for us what we saw in the news was like Tahrir Square they were like oh snap it was horrible and then the second option like oh where do I go and then it was Yemen cuz all of this is like when like it was dope to the head the remote thing was like dope like this was the rise of this

new because we never I'm from Chicago like the yeasts never eats on you the West Coast guys they were altered it's like they were in like four Chicagoans we were not like the even the this idea of like the ha ha or the more I'll be too like we were not we didn't know anything um um saying but I was like I think that was more a California thing we'll see that was way yellow super California at least for us like in our heads and their hobby bomarc a man who was like really cool and I was like masha'Allah like I just like Madhumita came here my magic ready Dawa and I was like recording for it or something like this and I was

always like super gangster ring right in you know he was I mean my friends but um it was really nice to me I met a very short period like a very staid but how many levels it was it was definitely interesting and so I was like oh you know there's a place called Arles Mustapha right

it knows like I'm just gonna go there for some reason my visa didn't work out right it just didn't work out very fine for divine in to define something like that right and the next option was I knew somebody who was a mentor of mine for for a little bit or good I had a relationship with was who said samurai cannon but in his time an incredibly stylish yeah and and she obeyed Allah evidence I just got back at this time

he's like I think he was finishing up exams before I look like we just finished her and I'm like met him and he was like this he's like the nicest man one of the nicest and he was he was an agent but he was like you I think his last year he was like coming back and forth sometimes you know and so I bet him there and he looked back to it like finishes finals right and to graduate and with some in-laws are maracas yeah so so yeah so so I had some familiarity with that it's the only family that had but in my head I was like Morocco we study the deep in Morocco right so complete I was like

Morocco soul was there I've never met any Moroccans if I'm honest with you like I did in here are amazing people I myself spent several years in Morocco

I'm telling you this between a rock and a hard place which sounds worse now using these kind of woods this is just like carry on you okay saying let's go to the car so what I didn't know what the cargo was I dare went to you know supposed to go to

Marrakesh did the air yeah which was watching I never booked America I took me this was like a class going on for a PhD Arabic program right so I failed it like I was like I don't know what any of these like they're just like what summer you know they said like it would be like the exam was in Arabic how did my Minnesota film like word I was like what are you even saying you're like I read it three times with my headache exactly

exactly exactly right so it's so they they they I just went to Fez instead I never owned American that was an institution there I went there for months and long story short you know I mean obviously I enrolled that took an exam I enrolled into a general Halloween at the time I don't I think that that was sort of some of the last year's they accepted foreign students without and they're very difficult now for foreign state very difficult with the mandate studying French and all this kind of stuff they used to anyway before it was quite mandatory and it was I never

obviously studied French at all they did in a they didn't mandate that for me at all masha'Allah I didn't had an issue that they did what they did mandate is like you knew them or - and so you had to go to the madrasah and study them or - and you had to have a good chunk of the Quran memorizer decent chunk and that's at least for them right so you'd have to go to the web and then obviously at the middle of all of this in the summers some of the summers I would go and live in the Saharan desert like in the Mauritania Sahara Desert and I went to there and I went there for a while which was another beautiful experience awesome experience I mean that stuff just felt like like you felt like you

were Indiana Jones at some point you know you were like this was like oh this is what it's all about because you know for a lot like one of the cool and I don't mean to in by no means and one of the issues that I have with talking about studying overseas is that sometimes they become so romanticized that there's sort of this like weird thing that like people you're gonna be looking if you go almost like diva-like invalidates Islam that is taught back home right so all of the efforts back home you mean well America all back in America or in your case like m'kay yes so you kind of like does away with indigenous indigenous so you could some some do some cat could like study for

ten years with the local scholar and his local whatever and he'll be like he such and such but some young punk could go for like a few months a couple years here and there come back and he's like Maulana Sheikh al-islam right he won't live overseas like there's this like there's like this appeal to it you know I'm saying do you feel that there's always been this kind of thing like what comes from abroad always has is valued and less from unless it's from Wuhan but I mean this is you know because in the time of even has them I

remember I remember I'm not from his time but I remember reading him writing about his time saying that how scholars seem to dis him even though he's producing all these masterly kind of work in hadith and everything and they pick up the eastern scholars and he says that hoon le ke Udrih and Melilla birthday a certain one a casa de lisle me a fertile Corbeau but you know really it's just because I'm close to you proximity you feel that there's no value in me you know you feel that all but yeah I definitely agree with what you're saying this it seems to

do this okay so yeah there is there you're right there's always been the the there's always been this sort of infatuation with all things foreign right and yeah I mean so that's what if that's so that's why when I speak about this I'm leaping out a lot of some real difficult times that had also occurred a lot of us you know like I went there like I mean my parents my parents know this everybody that knows me knows that when I went there I was like a hundred and eighty pounds and my by the end of the first year I was a hundred and twenty-three pounds which is I don't

know what that is for you guys know we generally go in stones and yeah you went from overweight to underway no I mean I think that's like thirteen story I must be just around thirteen stones maybe just under I must be about twelve and a half to thirteen so how many Cubans that can't remember now is that eighty something or 85 or is it something like that yes okay so it's around foot imagine going to like nine stone yeah yeah so that's all and I'd be

depressed I didn't feel like I was like skinny or whatever but like I looked in the mirror like oh snap dude like boy you lost weight like but it wasn't cuz you know you went from eating and you know like pizza and in in in like you know just eating a lot of food your college kid for awhile ago and all you did was like you know eat and work out and play basketball and that's it - like eating bread that kind of student the rich lifestyle dude no [ __ ] you mentioned that look you don't like to exalt a size or you know some fetishize let's say this

foreign travel or this kind of studying of knowledge in that way but there's many people who want to study in this day and age would you still advise them to travel abroad or know how yeah if the experience is safe and verified I would obviously not to go unfortunately I probably I mean maybe it was part of my experience but I would say like and I'm glad to had teachers and mentors who advised me first to begin my studies in America and then move on because exhausts of resources around you and because if you're not gonna be serious leader you're not gonna be serious they're right so be Siri I'll use be serious here and then obviously when you

change the environment you know obviously when you you know I'm you know the only thing that was free me the fact of the matter is I was in an Arabic environment where nobody spoke English so I was forced to now like be really good at Arabic or try my best to be I'm really good in Arabic right and we are both conversationally because you're around Arabs all the time and I guess you know the Syrians would tell you that the Moroccans don't really speak Arabic but I love the Moroccan Arabic by the way I love it but okay so you know there's a lot of there's been some discussions we've had on this show as well about scholarship in the West

scholars Imams religious kind of guidance in that sense what is the role in the West and do we feel that it's become somewhat redundant I mean do you I don't know if you do do you feel that scholarship in the West now I mean is it serving a function or is it kind of struggling with some of them I mean what would you I know you you are involved in a Masjid and you teach online and you do things like this how do you find this I mean still because you're still young as well do you feel

that allama are becoming more and more redundant or not really or well I mean maybe me I mean so so one of the the the so one of the things is that there is you know in in shul there is a thought and a thought in my diamond was to like their books like essays like that that's written that you know you have to study and I mean thing in that or the other like in another great references that you know the Farouk of the Imam of coffee right Kalani and they showed a categorize or prioritize the role of sort of scholarship number one I think being that an ax man were what they

don't ruin number one is to actually me juvenille faith and protect somebody's soul right to begin in word right so instead of beginning outward first they start off inward and then he said the need for like scholars of HD high of legal judgment to present thick in there it's a break in the context of their time in order to facilitate the path to God at i see'd allahi ta'ala to make wait there alais their their their relationship with god is you know strong any like we've given all of the difficulties that we think like--look

life is already difficult okay you got bills you have um you people have emotional stresses they have familial stresses you get married you get you know some of us go through divorces some of us go through this that the last thing you want is that the religion comes in and supposed to actually be able to give you an outlet in order to see God in all of that as a centerpiece in your community as opposed to be something that makes that even more difficult right like and and I think the third one is actually they say that its rulings two rulings that that actually reconciled a whole AMA that tried to reconcile bring the oh man to the state

of recommend reconciliation right so so what happens is that we you study Sharia you study like how to make with whatever and you're come back to America and you're not you're asked to talk about like especially our younger cats like you're stopped you're asked to talk about everything but will you actually study so nobody you know everything but you actually studied so nobody actually can teach like hey this is Nick this is it was right and you have such a what happens as we divorce ourselves from the research of actually studying the tradition which is this ocean of things like five years is not enough to study the tradition you know this way better than I do right cuz you've probably been doing this when I was playing kickball right like like you know that this is

this it takes a very long time to master so it's actually and one of the ways to to mass tradition is to teach it right like the more the Italians the Mauritanian say and I am doing a jackass a jar they like knowledge without actually renewing it is like washing stones and sometimes even washing stones like that's why I like it's like like every year like as somebody who lives in in the United States you can sort of every Muslim issue you I promise you you can do to number of it I swear to god you can do pretty every single one that happens every year this year at this day such a source is gonna

happen will similar gonna argue about this such as a five to be my ten a book to kind of like predict in three days yeah yeah yeah literally you know I'm saying it's almost like what's like grounded you say or like now that you're back it's only been you know it's just maybe one or two years you've come back to states you've got involved you're obviously grasping look there's a lot going on here as well what do you feel are some of the biggest challenges that you feel yourself now having studied that you think well hmm from a faith perspective and the indigenous

society or in what what are some of these what do you find as some key struggles maybe that either you or people you feel are going through generally number one david difficult is number one is the framing our religion is something that is gods trick as opposed to identity centric right so Islam comes to America you know when it's some sort of we it's there is what you call the irascible identity religion and this is why Oh

rusty irascible identity religion an example this is like any conversation that you have well the the the I don't know I don't want to call it scholastic response because I feel like insults you know scholarship but the most emotive response sometimes it's it's like it's like this it's like this um it's like this reaction this everything is reactive so like we we do things and according to reaction as opposed to calculator right like you know there is this beautiful hadith that I think about

all the time where the Prophet said so live second um a gentleman a share thought what an meet min Allah that hast is from the but just froze all right I said the hadith was a gentleman ascertain what enemy meant a lot that haste is from the devil and this deliverance is from God the the difficult part now or the part I sort of I don't say difficult but a challenge that inch'allah I hope that we collectively could you know fulfill and

rise up to is being deliberate being holistic being calculated in our approach as you feel do you feel they distracted in things like sectarianism or not really in the state issue it is it's a it's odd to see not that volatile like it used to be you know in its improved you feel in the state's its it's taking different form when it used to be like you know Sufi Salafi to be whatever like name it and I'm not just name a few like right and I got love for all of you you all know that but there is a now it's more of like conservative versus

traditional is progressive versus this versus that so it's a political it's more of you know and again this comes with the idea of identity religion that are my religion is specifically be there for me to feel comfortable in my identity so as opposed to you know and this is what you know you know this idea of you know I'll give you an example of this is you know and I don't want to obviously step on toes anything because you know I'm I'm very

much I'm very non-confrontational but the example of like do you know now their courage between men in women the role organization in an Islam you know people sort of have an Islam that is a more you know that they use Islam in this conversation or if there is it's the world community but one of the beautiful things the first time we all we all are quote in the halacha now come back here in Malta what I love come

Shirou Baraka battle it out of food now if you follow the Sunni principle of the Quran is that clarity is is assumed when we deal with things so before you can do Shubin walkabout in our nation's in tribe you have to know masculinity and femininity zalim yourself he said in a technical doctor one that made you masculine and he made you feminine so you have to know masculinity and you have to know femininity right like the practice that had better him in dunya coconuts and Anissa what tea right well Jennifer contain asana what would Lisa is women women right the first the first thing was was this Cuomo's the most

important thing for men oh we've frozen again chef there you are you bad you back it's just a word women froze the ship and there you go I said it again and his props make it can hello can you cut can hear us I think I think the internet on this side is absolutely fine what I'm going to do is just press reset maybe that will let me just press

it off rise I'm good I'm good I'm back my apologize my fellow Mike I think fives my connector but you know three things were made beloved to me in this world one of them is is is women and you know the allah's names as some of you know people even like in Manila even at MIDI but a G bar or CDI DJ man who's phezzan obviously I'm more inclined towards TomSka because obviously the experience that I had there is that they even named they say that a las Jamali

and generally names are split into masculine and feminine names like the rain is masculine in when it's a storm but it's demonym when it actually is nurturing right and these are the different both are needed but and if we don't understand that you know itself we're obviously gonna have gender confusion we're gonna have confusion of roles we're gonna have confusion of all of these different things and if we don't understand that you have a very difficult time reading the tradition because the tradition has very interesting contextual ideals when it comes to when it comes to gender you

know I'm saying like you will have a very difficult time getting past like in the smallest things will probably get you stuck you'll be like oh dang I'm done I'm over now as opposed to looking back and be like I wonder what femininity is the runner of masculinity is I have to actually dig into these deeper profound qualities of human existence the fact like no no please please no I was gonna say that what uh what was a there's a lot of confusion about gender roles gender definitions masculinity femininity like you're saying but what what what do you understand from these things sure I mean

what do you understand me you said these or trying to understand you know when you say these you know they're because there's a lot of discourse about let's say gender people are arguing over it or discussing what is your kind of motive or position or what are you kind of will use now on all of this um you know I'm in regards to this I you know and I and again I I don't claim I have the answer so I need these things you know I could be 100% wrong right now I'm totally off the wall but but uh but uh

but you know you know inshallah I get the addresses for trying but like there is there's this piece on I think is very important to understand in one of the you know it's one of the one of the scary or not scary one of the disappointing things that we see is there is not much of an influence on Maxim's on legal Maxim's because you get so much from legal Maxim's right and in you know ideas like an auto-fill mock him that culture is a ruling factor right in what is disdained in our culture disdained in our tradition right those are those are legal Maxim's these

are like loose una pijama this is not some like you know max book that you find in a Starbucks coffee this is like this is a job max avocado in Matt Kozar you'll find these Maxim's why do I say it's like we have to be able to sort to reconcile between the role that the that the tradition attempts to honor gender and not to degrade gender right so dude is there hierarchy yeah there's physical hierarchy of course there is like in

terms of but there's I mean I would say if you look if you put things in there pop in in in certain positions there is some level to hire some men women positions what are these

Freudian slips I will say traditionally that there is there is I don't think that's the case I think you know a you know a a rigid me Sasha cut it could mean it's not right men and women their partners their partners and you know when it comes to certain

responsibilities and hoop there is yes there isn't like some people you know obviously there's a there's a difference of opinion and the hadith of Isis my been Shias either right when she comes to the proximate she complains I know why she didn't mean it sees that and he said yeah absolutely laugh like I'm I'm a representative of the woman and she gives a problem complaints right like he basically says you know like you came for by my mother and my father you know and until you know Sunni lager The Messenger of Allah right you came for battle La Jolla when Mesa right I mean

number one imagine somebody speaking to The Messenger of Allah like that Allah sent you for men and women but I'm and I become and we believed in you and we followed you right and you said well they cannot knock Surat we literally she says we're bound by our homes and we're mock Surat were given the shorthand of this trick a stick right and she says like you know the men are given these benefits over us they get to go to like and look at what she was complaining about she said they get to they go to they have they have salata jamar they have they have the Juma

prayer they have high GI Bill Hajj what a cinnamon radical jihad FISA bill odd they couldn't go fight in the way of Allah he says what do we have we protect your for kids what Rob ain I will have to call me we we like raise our children laughing well laughing I'm Wylie call me protect your wealth well boy you two come a-near homes etc etc etc and the acid they they the problem turns to the Companions that he said have you ever heard a better question - in one of the Companions that yeah so we didn't know that they were

even able to talk like this in the like this but that's American hadeeth right if the hadith is you know Allah knows best obviously they're up to it but it's a Meccan hadith the Metheny hadith the women who write in the process and basically says go tell your support sure women it men and any of these different things all of what they get is given to you right he didn't say don't do it he said just support them wonder what they're trying to do etc etc etc right there are different conversations of all of these things now what happens between that and then whereas my bentusi now becomes a mahadeva right or she becomes

the fact that she fought she fights in the Battle of Yarmouk some of the table part say that she had Spears of heads of Roman soldiers on right like what happens between then and and then word now she got some power to become a teacher of the tradition they saw of our tradition right an imam of our tradition see what's what happens between these two combinations and so you know these are things to think about when you talk about how you know this idea that you know yeah there are certain rights for example to provide right away muna enemy side there is this idea of establishing protecting but more equally let's say

they are providing they are the provider would that would you feel that that then revolves and night for that I don't know I don't know for this surface like that molarity right we don't we have no idea how that cosmologically that works right but we do know that in a lot of motiroti mean right like allah does there like but in by insulting that you're insulting our mother Khadijah no they have I have actually said generally in

my understanding at the Quran it addressed it was in these things like when it said original Carmona Allen Mesa it was stating so from a descriptive perspective as opposed to from a prescriptive perspective because really was the the reality on the ground in most parts of the world now should that reality change in certain places then with it the rulings would kind of change that's what I kind of said previously chef yeah I mean you meant I mean somebody you know sorry I'm sorry no I

was gonna say you know you'd mentioned just a little while back that look when people are searching for these kind of answers and and other things they're trying to go back to you know the weather is the Maktub um just right it's the muck services my camera right they going to the MUX about the Halloween or they looking at a lesser they're trying to find answers in the books of Atlas Sunnah wal Jamaa and you're not gonna find things like that you know you're saying well you know people have to kind of which which I totally agree with but on that note and tying into the discussion this thing of Allison about

jama'a because I know you know we've spoken briefly about about this previously but now I mean not too much into it but this this whole thing that look al Qaeda and and when it's coming to to play this even this whole title Allison or Jamar do you feel this is a kind of isn't is this a reality I mean is the I know today we say there is this thing called Sunni Muslims which means by and large the majority Muslims and it's used to contrast against the Shia but is this in essence something that was meaningful it made sense or was this

a kind of power play do you feel that to kind of to create a kind of like a club almost was it I mean what's this powerdyne that's a brilliant that's a brilliant question that's a really good question I think that's all that's an awesome yeah I mean I think now yeah like well I mean obviously um you know I could pee okay I think that you know the way I studied it obviously or the way I was taught my schools people could look back and obviously I'm very I'm very you know I inclined towards the opinion of my teachers in this regard and I know people could say you've just been watering it down a little bit but when one of the teachers said that they somebody one there's a teacher in our community somebody asked him and it just

you know people say we watered down the religion and he said of course you rot water it down you don't give babies adult food he's it wrong he's a chorister watering it down a little bit so but when it comes to soon I thought you know there was there was a brilliance when it comes to at a sooner because you know the profits on our cinema said in caffeinated feel in our company fuller in a la la Torre Juhu be done be well that took that took like took a photo because MV well I told you it's very interesting how we talked about this because he says first of all the head that basically whoever says that Allah don't a mathematize them from the religion but

then he says don't excommunicate them like you could have just said not too comfortable but so that I read you like don't write which is brilliant so you're looking at that that the the when you look at the genius of a lot of our scholars whether you're from the actually score them at to really school is they didn't see themselves in the offense they saw themselves as the defense meaning that no these cards are calling us go far like the coatis are the ones that called citing a homer meaning the MFM attire is literally who called cyber no more a disbeliever right Hashanah in LA and etc

etc but now week now there are these people that that that say that every you know that they're in they they believe that everything is Sarah it's another group of people everything and everything is everything is metaphorical any of this other group that says you have to believe that God essentially has a mood to just some he's given in a body right the way we look at Zeus for example right do we do those coverage and you can have all these conversations but one of the things that I think we need to learn from that as a collective obviously our conversations us be honest we're not there in 2020 but we're not thinking about the

stuff as a collective and Allah knows best we don't even know of the normative Muslims are having that conversation at that time we just cuz we reading from books we're reading what scholars had in the ivory tower you don't know what's happening within the normative there's a whole different conversation happening on the ground all right I was always curious because I felt that obviously I mean we brought up we are not only born into Sunni Islam we grow up as Sunnis and we are whatever that is understood - yeah but generally while studying things like this I I mean not during my motherís a years but more so in recent

years now whilst looking at all of these and the kind of questions I've had going on I felt that hmm this is quite interesting because we does this actually like at what point do Muslims scholars start refer to themselves as we are Allison now yeah so yeah seems to emerge really only after the issue with a map after yeah so and the whole manner of the Quran kind of thing after that look before that you know whether it was

Imam Abu Hanifa Imam Malik all these great Imams even Imam Shafi'i really during the first 200 years of Islam almost no this doesn't really appear even though all those seconds have appeared you know the Shia power period the martyrs illa have appeared you know the college have appeared the all of these sects are in existence yet this term hasn't really come about called Alesana and I felt that it even though initially may have began as with however it did you know just as a natural

reaction eventually but along the way there were a lot of power dynamics the ability to exclude now because the question was you see I could say you are a [ __ ] age because you believe this this mmm I could say you are a Shia because you favor I li and you do this this this I could say you you know you follow this person and therefore you are martyrs Ely and from the early martyrs illa let's say you you believe in certain things like the manzil abandonment ill attain but how else can i but once up I have a defined code of

what you must believe in to be part of the club you see prior to that that didn't exist so in imam malik story there was no subscription policy like so long as you didn't call her the people kaffir and say that abu bakr and omar were deviant yeah it was still we were all muslims so what are you well it's like it's like you know when they asked i said no i'm what about the colada they said you know go far and he said que si he's like a fire could have been a third you know cuckoo they'd go for their whole pieces against gopher that's her whole spiel right right how can they be go fight it

then are they hypocrites you said he said he said how are the hypocrites were local ilaha ila Fikret ABI Allah says that and about the run-of- xx core allahu ala nerd in whom you're allowed to deny hard they remember allah all day in allah says that the moon don't bother he said you know from hawaiian in a i live in a fairy Juna what are the moon there are brothers in this religion who are oppressed us and transgressed us in depth to define look our whole lives are made by defining moments and in terms of choices that's our life that's our life we have to be honest like in come to this realization that everything even our sciences are more cuts their temporal

yeah right just I just saw this there actually this is a book I'm actually going through right now it's cool the formation of Hamlet is called the formation of humble ism piety into consciously and any actually discusses a lot of these kind of things as well about like it's that it's interesting at what point something becomes instrumentalized more power dynamics so but and but I think that's where that that's where the issue is as opposed to creating a science or a group like a do Senora Gemini that says how can we

preserve what we believe to be you know a normative Islam without like in meth Amman tizen people or excommunicating them and not calling them go far will say ìlisten l-jamaa will say that so listen you do what you do you can you can critique that but the difference between I think there was a sincerity there as opposed to sometimes now it's become weaponized right it's become weaponized and this is a really big issue to believe that you are entitled to this for tradition right we don't have a monopoly over this thing and and and you know the idea of you know um let me give me I'll give you an

example if I if I may the one of the big issues with people that you know how they adhere to different sexual orientations never somebody even in our community a very mashallah elderly imam who has been doing this work for years somebody asked her about you know ask him about you know I'm a Masjid that it's something like something that had to do with people that adhere to a different sexual orientation and he said he said just homosexual yeah homosexuals and you know might be said just you know you don't let them do what they're doing it's all good like we're just you you could do what you want we're just gonna do what we do over here and they're just like you're not gonna make a statement gonna say this and it was very

interesting of how set people got at him and he's like he didn't do anything dude like you can get hello I think Chicago is having an Internet oh you might hear me back you kidding me there yeah but isn't it isn't it indicative of that when one day when they asked him a malloc of philatelic area Giroux there is a village that practices incest right and then what is he ma'am Alex day he said it took home he's like leave them in the locomotive invalid Allah has given preferred for them whatever you want to translate

that's something curious no I kind of like a detailed segment on homosexuality and Islam a diverse history and I do go through I mentioned very clearly that look yes within Islam the overwhelming dominant kind of narrative is one like the biblical religions in which homosexuality is prohibited and so on even within that I mentioned that however when it's from other communities you know we don't get involved like in my Malik said that you don't you know like when he was incest he said that

learn are in the level we don't kind of like it's their business if that's what they understand is a way of life we leave it and I did mention that however they were certain scholars from like the time of imam ahmed like bother yahia black them and there were a few others as well who believed homosexuality was permissible in Islam and they used the Koran to just to fight and they used verses like a zoo in an illness was it tsukina leverage any hope hope o shahe Waterman and mr.

t will bring me will yes and they said here was about Asha wattle Benin and the use of the verses as well and they kind of justify like Almada will burn wounds in eternity to me and so and many people understood it as sons like you to do but he but people like called the yeah him neck them and others said that now this meant generally from a sexual orientation interesting but my point was that even though that was a minority of one could argue you know an extreme minority but the point is that Islam did

have in his tradition a sense of diversity and I went through the history of all the caliphs who were openly homosexual beginning with Walid from the Umayyads and right down to people like Matt moon and Amin who were like openly homosexual there's nothing kind of hidden about it and and right through other people as well not just them but why people get people tend to get very emotionally reactive we've discussed this on the show previously as well with some other guests but you find that I know in the UK or in these countries where people are still a lot more conservative mave maybe if I if I use

that term from a religious perspective but I would have thought in America people are somewhat I don't know we've once again using these words like progressive I would have thought but you feel that this is still such a big deal and a huge I think I don't think it's a big deal I think sometimes you make it a big deal because I don't think anybody's asking for a validation in this regard number one and one of the problems I think is that um the Muslim community sometimes we attempt to look for validation with from those who have no interest in validating us right we seek some weird validation the the biggest threat to our tradition like I don't let me ask you I barely know any Muslims

that adhere to that I don't know that there's a very small percentage of Muslims that adhere to other than a heterosexual relationship right here's like a yeah being gay I think you know I think huge parts of the Muslim world would probably disagree with the stats on Saudi Arabia you know I mean I mean and you know there could be a lot of different explanations for that but in terms of this I was like that's not the you know the concern that that's not

right now the biggest you know you could say what happened in the interest the difference between now in the past because I also have a little bit if you are America side the past without understanding would actually occurred in the past yeah you know because there's a lot to say we live in bad times right we live in horrible times it's like yeah dude you also didn't experience the Mongols like even Tamir experience like what do you think

once again the [ __ ] slightly frozen but I'm sure your mom yeah like if you know if I know people think I'm you know a lot about this is like what type of food was for some of his harsh judgments but yeah but if you saw blood on the street up to your ankles in young people getting butchered and skinned alive what type of photo would you write it would be this not sure this the what you're saying about the kind of barbaric nature they saw to reality there's that sight undeniable but what's also interesting and I'd love to get your thoughts on

these is I feel that the scholars in the past were living quite harmoniously but kind of dichotomous lives in a way in a way that they were you see that they had so for example let's say this is a fit book this the same but I probably got one here somewhere now they were writing fit books but the thick books were detached from the the way they saw and perceived is living Islam on the ground

now so for example if we go like let's take the Ottoman Empire now the Ottoman Empire approximately about 700 years it lasted now they have actually preserved there's a huge a lot of the judicial cases have been preserved like the judicial written and case studies that were written by the judges judgment like so so and so came today and so and so and they're arguing over this land and this is my judgment or you know such-and-such stole and such-and-such did this or and the judicial cases do not reflect the books that they would in fact something but yet this is the

same judge authorized you know administering these codes now one could say one could say that well okay because we know for example stoning cutting off the hands things like this seldom happened he had they had things like financial planning penalties they had things like they would there was corporal punishment like they would slap so for example in Egypt during the mum looks and the this era there was a certain punishment that the judges would do which was like a a very heavy slapping sometimes they would do and him and sometimes depending on the regime it may have been it may have

changed the kind of punishment people who do what even a whole dune is one a scholar that would often still kind of slap his he would give this kind of punishment to the people he felt needed to be punished now one could say well okay maybe a state the state might get involved if you were taking life out of the and it was against the instructions but other corporal punishments like I don't think the the state would have really cared the Empire if you were slapping them or hitting them with the steak or lashing them like if you said can you get a whip please I'm gonna lash him I don't think the Ottomans or the

you know the mom looks or the obey you bid or the exceed the year or any of them would have really cared so the point but what we find is they themselves were not like that the lives they were living and they had control over it in practicing is very different to what they wrote in the thick books now today interesting we read they're fit books and we think all right this guy's ruined this so therefore he must have firmly believed this to be the thing otherwise why would he write it makes no sense to me now I mean what are

your thoughts on that I I mean do you feel that there was this I'm not saying a disconnect and I don't think that they felt they were hypocrites when they were doing that but they just lived in a kind of I don't know like this kind of dissonance how the ivory tower is yeah I mean I think there's definitely the the again the weaponization of scholarship is very problematic in terms of the way we look at like everything is very like that there is a beautiful critique of one of the students of imam even that was i think either was even him or somebody else who wrote a critique of imam al-ghazali right and he

writes an entire critique and tries to basically take out every one of his arguments in the end he says well iowa hamid al-ghazali logical islam and all of this he saw the proof of the song so he began with the critique but he ends with saying that nor does he still like show he tips his hat out you know i'm saying like he he he you know i'm saying he's recognized that this is also i'm criticizing him but he's imam al-ghazali you know like with criticizing a lot of what that he has to say and that idea of like there is a you know and and this is the difference between and so while we have the science we call the science of debate in islam Alain Bernard or are

right we don't call it mu J Dilla which is impermissible in some situations I can have an edge you can't even do jihad which is for Babel how do you realize how when you Babel had you under sounds very bad thing right you're not supposed to do it or the hi beautiful had multiple hadith on saying that whomsoever one of you is arguing in their right and they wrong and they leave the argument allowed bills for them a house and paradises their right to paraphrase Allah and if they allowed bills for them a house in the garden of

paradise meaning that like stop arguing one another right stop arguing them one another now we don't have argumentation or munafa sha right meaning the attempted me putting a nook in your body like literally the attempted me basically conclude giving you my conclusion and not hearing what I have to say as opposed to more nada not being that I'm hearing you and you're hearing me like I I see you when you see me I completely see where you're coming from and I could totally see how you got to that conclusion right but in that way do you feel that scholars in the past were in some ways more open minded is that what you're I think that had more you know that's I framework is I don't want to do the bowel say that had more empty sham more

decorum I mean there was it's well I mean but there is also more prestige back then with scholarship then there is you know in that you will the cell is back then and even to some extension today definitely but especially back then were a social class in and of themselves like in the way you have an aristocracy although an aristocracy is based on wealth but there's an element of power that is also there do you feel the scholars were a class in society and they precise things a class I you know there's probably like

anecdotal instances of people looking I mean look what is tell visa at least Imam Josie even a Josie was the entire thing was talking about Skaar is thinking too much so like he just goes after scholars and be like you guys think you're all done in a bag of chips right like you guys need to come back to earth you after you're calling people to this and that he says you're you're you're you know he talks about the when I'm out sultani there's the ones of the Sultan ship they just say what are the Sultan says there are pieces the people that I mean we matter the whole I remember cause Ali talks about the moment because American the deluded ones you know whatever he said the deluded scholars they're too

good in the way they walk because you have like I know what I'm saying that probably happen I definitely believe it was a reality I mean you have like I was just saying that your Maliki now obviously as am i many viewers but the Maliki method doesn't have like on some let's say social aspects like it will speak about Anika things like what makes one in society and equal now they will generally the Malik here don't they seem to just save religion and faith and they kind of have an almost a very pious religious a pious out look like Imam Ali

kind of saw that but the hanafi madhhab for example and the chef I met up to some extent as well they've recognized social status so it'll say like you know and the hanafis are quite some of them more than others go out in saying like such and such as I so for example Arabs are higher status than non Arabs are going to a Hanafy fit and they will say and from the Arabs Quraish are higher than regular Arabs and amongst they say non Arabs are similar but then they do recognize social statuses within them and an interesting thing they will state that they say that you're not an equal fit

for marriage if you are not from so an Arab and a non Arab even if the Arab so let's say somebody claims to be salient from the family of the Prophet but they not but they are ethnically brought up in non Arab countries so they are let's say Pakistani or they are Indian or they are brought up in these other countries now what they will state is that because this person claims to be of a sayyidna sub they are an Arab Hashmi therefore

they are not an equal fit with a non Hashimi but the interesting point I was going to say in all of these is that they will state that unless a person is a scholar they are then exempt from this like the scholars are equal as like an upper class they they are you know they that they can't get trumped like they are the elite it's like an ace card the skull is obviously questionably the scholars themselves are the ones who are writing these books only there's a self

interesting there but it's it's interesting that they saw that the scholar class like if you were from a low class like let's say you are freed slave or you were something like this or and you can't you don't fit as a marriage but if you're a scholar then you do fit any class so it's interesting I just thought yeah you had a plumber dynamics I mean I mean it's it's I mean most of the raw Sodom as water fertile and via like they were the water theory the ones that held now obviously the prerequisite for scholarship was higher back then let's be honest it's also watered down you know saying there compared to how it was back then but you

know I also think you know that it sort of it doesn't speak to us anymore because you don't have that you know like uh you know our the the idea is that most people are not looking at they're not really looking up to their scholars as as they did back then like people summarized actually cared at some level about what somebody what a what a men have had to say what a ruling was they care to go get get get get a ruling from a body or from you know and masha'Allah are our God these would be like for example you know the way we treated the the non-muslim and under

Lucia was unbelievably beautiful right I mean you couldn't even cut it was impermissible to call them a non-muslim if you take you to court great and right there were things like that so there was an affinity towards the decorum but I think that you know you see a revival and again I think that we're just going through a stage of um we're seeing and we're seeing a rise and people that are interested and you know you hope that people are interested in their I reason to actually do scholarship now the different thinking scholars because it's somebody you know you could argue that most of our collective generation meaning the last three generation are more raw we like you you have more narrators than you

actually by definition of scholar that's a new census yeah yeah because my definition scholarship produces work right that produces work we have a like how do we not like have a published Mets in a fit for Americans and I could speak to the America and he was telling me that look he just come back from a like as in in the last week's few weeks prior to our meeting this is a few years but

good few years back he'd come back from the Middle East somewhere I can't remember where it was at the time maybe Bahrain or there was something he'd been some way where there was a there was a conference a select conference private conference for he leading maliki Don's of the world yeah I was obviously thinking well how come I wasn't invited [Music] nah right but the pie no he what he was actually telling me was that he was there there was people like chef Rudy was the news telling me chef Rudy was the and a few other abdullah bin bayer and a few others now I think of the loving BAE mentioned but there were

quite a few others Nagi chef Nagi people and a few others now the point was that they were working on a project which was meant to be huge now so when I asked him about the project and it was they had a particular text which was I think he told me because it's still not I don't think it's been published still and it's been a good few years I think it was the shara Xhosa read but it was one of these I think it was one of these works I believe things but the point was they were going through the whole work it was already elaborate the kind of commentary

and they were writing evidences and he was gonna turn into this voluminous work so you have all the evidences the hadith the evidences and everything and the hadith and the TUC region the hadith and everything for this entire work of the Maliki method now I was just thinking look as great as that is you know sure that's good I mean we have got other works or ready to do with the evidences for the matter don't you think we would need a contemporary effect in sync with our DNA yeah when you say like your

Apple Mia the books of water speak about water today in the tabs when it comes mixed with different chemicals what are we looking at today speaking a chapter on mortgagees a chapter on like things are relevant to this day in there yeah yeah that's true and I wish it was more that you know their their attempts right now that are there's a you know a shaking in Chicago named shake I mean Hanwha dia but he's he's a hundred feet mashallah jurist and one of the old you ship yeah yes I heard you know many years back I heard Mufti Kimani speak about him I believe yeah

mashallah yeah happy to Allah Allah he and you know he's doing some it's so is really interesting to read some of the stuff he saw about bioethics Islam and bioethics which i think is a you know you could talk about how much could be produced in just that topic you know in terms of like how is omelets in bioethics or Islamic finances and how we deal with finances today you know a lot a lot of us you know he was I think he was one of the people that sort of stood up and was like young kids like we need to rethink the way we think about college loans because kids are we need our kids to get educated bro you know saying like we need our kids to go to school like we need to this is kind of nuts because you one of the assumptions that a lot of we make is that the school

you know like there's even like I'll give you an example the the ruling on Lavasa like you have to have a higher pie you know Salah the your my it has to be somebody goes to the measured number one Taylor now you be on t if I if I present that today I'm clearly speaking to a very elite class of people in the socio-economic ladder because most people cannot afford a tailor more people most people cannot afford these type of luxuries so that's what I'm that's what I'm saying right is that like because our books relate that to

piety who you buy your thing something if you go to traditional places but if you've got a thousand things like that you'll see a butcher like three butcher shops but like two will be like nominee who will go there will see one or the other to just a line of people but they're all butcher shops because people know who that person is he's fair he's you know he deals with this he's very equitable and it's priceless he doesn't really teach you all these condition that's what people go to him exactly exactly it's it's it's connected right but for us we don't have we have a we have the you know we deal with mass production right we do with the idea that we go to

a wholesaler who company that buys from a wholesaler and buy things now for us a lot of things are our we don't even deal with it we don't week a very difficult and not only America but looking at let's say did look at our contemporary our world today in in in the moment and the religion to that would lead to a certain amount of obviously reviewing revisiting touch deeds renovating or however I know that that's a better term like you were saying to renovate something but it involves critiquing our traditions I mean would you would you be in favor of

all critiquing our tradition what are your thoughts because there's a huge push back against this I think yeah I mean I mean look whoever doesn't have logic the knowledge of any well I watched the Korean meeting these decide that you don't have any confidence in your knowledge you should be ready teachers we should be cons and listen like are we believe this tradition to be the truth okay and and we need to be very clear number one of what's our the throw a bit and want the motor failure on we have an established this right now when we have these conversations what are the throw a bit the absolute and they describe this is our obstacle must

occur right I'll clarify and others say that this is thing that are firmly rooted that is a non-negotiable these are non-negotiable we have got a negotiable and he said now what are the negotiables what are the negotiation this is something and I know you're a fan as well this is something in my shot to be huge on his whole right that's right that's that's literally it's so much at the end and it needs to be really spoken about in a way that articulates how we can facilitate this religion to people a very good example is look in America um you know in our tradition we look at the dean of Orland before you get married order of the man vice versa but I think it's it's it's

your religion doing essentially took that for your kness people I mean actually do you feel that I'm not actually look at mean unless you mean by religion that is your Muslim wish you Muslim but do they actually look at yeah I mean people are involved in different expressions of the religiosity some people are involved in different places but you know some people just fall in love and get married you no and it's it's you know that's just

how it works but but you know and then there's right there that's a big one it's nice but what family did it come from well intimate like if you come from honorable like lineage well in America were just creating our lineage we don't really have lineage here right well we were a few generations out we have a few families here but we don't really have that if you're a convert that's very is difficult to talk about the conversation of lineage in fact it's very sensitive it's insensitive for me

to talk about lineage in front of any Muslim sometimes or somebody that doesn't necessarily come from a lineage that they know or a lineage that they really want to talk about etc etc or there and there's a multi-faceted so what is we don't have a protocol and I have a friend you know Allah bless him he's actually working he's you know one of his projects is now looking at like how Muslims deal with the protocol of marriage right how are collectively big deal with this like what is our what are our principles and how do we do it to people one of the things is like I mean I know other people have this opinion and one of the things that we have in our mosque and you know miskeen I'm just you know hug them but you know the

scholars that that is is that one of their protocols that I follow is that they don't let us let me do Anika ceremony right the ketubah Khattab with it afford sleep no unless it's legally marriage with the with the I I agree what they'd experience will be because it's very difficult to keep because we we've had weird because I personally kind of believe that in I don't believe in unifying the two I mean I feel there's no harm if I feel that religious

ceremonies should be religious ceremonies and statutory ones should be statutory and I feel that's true and I think that's the majority opinion I think that's the majority opinion I think about the one that we follow is minority because so I look it we be just trial and error by the way because what we just saw is like there was people that were taking advantage of this to a crazy extent right like there was very very people that were just we didn't know where there are other families where sometimes some people got married like they were the they got married and we didn't nobody knew their visa situation or and or they got you know the visa of marriage stuff whatever but I mean you could gather a huge part of this down to the actual person

getting married like a response like if I if it's like if I went and bought something let's say obviously not that marriage is purchasing let's say I bought this book and it turns out well like you know like obviously they're alright but there are right but obviously you would contact the seller but if somebody just came up to me and said look hey do you want to buy this phone I said well hmm I don't know you know let me take a look at it let me and I assess the situation yeah when you come across somebody and you think well I like this person you ask questions and you meet and but I suppose you can always deceive people if you really want to deceive them I I suppose if you're

really good at it you can I get that argument as well but I do feel a sense of responsibility on you're right you're right in the end you know it's an individual institution at some point right but the way the community works for in you know sort of it's the way sort of it works in our specific community is that there is a sense of there's always been a historic communal responsibility right because we are sort of riding the coattails of people like Imam were that in Muhammad's community that brought you know people into normative Islam and and in their communities there was a sense of like the community or communal responsibility

right like the village so to speak that raises and I could even see that the critique against the way we do it and I think it makes all that critique it makes a lot of sense and again some and and and again that is the minority opinion and I think you what you're saying is the majority right people are just like listen bro if you got married you got married great you you have to know what you're getting into you know you mentioned the about like Imam what is community and other early communities and some of them in some ways may have been radical but I know you've mentioned previously that but there was a kind of dignity you feel to them early kind of radical approach I mean well what I mean on that

what are your just to explain to people I mean how do you see the contrast because we see early communities sometimes that that were also quite stiff and firm and dogmatic on things it's not like they're necessarily so open-minded but yeah different but they had a different veneer to them all almost in there do you do yeah yeah yeah it was I mean it's something to look up to you look at people that were just so strong in their principles and you know it's you know people that held values that were so dear to them and all these other things but you know you can't be not you've been talking about it either you know sort of water these things down

to the point where like nothing it was it was you know a lot of those communities are non-existent now right for music like we don't know what happened to them they're sort of in the decline they're not on the incline but I think you know and obviously when I look at things historically I'm seeing like what is a virtue in this and how can we apply the virtue and now do this better than they did it right there how could be trained you know what can you know how could we train our collective community busins enhance yeah there was this whole and when I said growing up not growing up growing up but I suppose when I got interested in the Dean and started taking it seriously you went off to study and things like this they were

in the West they were I suppose there weren't as many scholars but there were people like let's say cher comes a use of who till today I would say is it's like especially in America and by extension in the english-speaking world may be seen as a kind of leadership face of Islam amongst the leadership do you feel that this understanding has this I've been told sometimes that that's only like by seen by people like me my age maybe people who've now like let's say in their late 30s into their 40s things like that the younger generation don't see it that

way I mean what do you feel do you feel that they still see this kind of leadership and like a kind of almost I don't mean whether it has to be with power or not I'm not speaking about the power right now but do they see this hierarchical backdrop of Islam in in America is there this kind of respect of seniority to people or no in the younger generation yeah you're still young yourself actually I mean and people that you're engaging with I guess as well that may be younger than you I mean your own you're 27

I'll say this much I mean it's the most I'll see dr. Sherman Jackson may Allah protective he said um he said one of the things that he said was on the greatest but the greatest threat to religion is not persecution its apathy born of irrelevance right so he said that that they may be one of the things that we have to understand is that there was not a sense of leaving the tradition as much as there is a sense of apathy towards it it does not doesn't speak to me right sometimes people's not this did not is

that also relating to a sense of indifference or a sense of non like of relates simply to it oh they become individual I think they feel like they haven't been invested in they haven't been it doesn't it's been more of a divest situation right and they you know that's usually been the the case for a lot of younger people that you know you the age is the age of social media this is the age of you know the idea that right like like they're you know I mean we have the categories of people the the people that have the 30 minute a week they need some inspiration and we have

the talk for them some beautiful words of inspiration upliftment right just positivity in chawla and then you have the next group of people that are really trying to I want to learn how to read the Quran I live that that da-da-da-da-da saw right there literally sitting there doing this stuff in the whiteboard in the wall and in there is like ah right and then there's like the prayer workshop people like we're gonna learn how to pray right and then you have students that are just like no I want to go through I want to I want to go through Moses or Oxford Univ inertia and the rosanna remember I don't I want to go through that I want to go to much I want to learn right

obviously I'm speaking at him out who you know put the blow up in the cinema she's grabbed you from the other side because the cosmos this is our the wormhole right there but okay you're saying yes so there's people who definitely commit now no like it's it's

naive to take you know very you know like big conversations and bring it down to people and expect them to be done with it right like this there's a you know we are there was always the alarm and the house like there's always been the people who are and you know but in in regards to scholarship right so you know there has to be a way of opening you know that door and and again in in looking at do you sure that the prophets providing to send them to to my live in Germany right or he says you know in the quor'toth you know in a in a compliment I hope you tab you're going to people

from the people of the book he says you said tell them like that a lot and then he says what in yet what was in your heart was in Kajal was if they accept it right tell them in a while for alikum sort of silhouette if you know other well yeah well yeah tell them about the five pairs and if they accept that then tell them about this account right and then he says beware of the approach and this is really deep for me and I've also a lot of my teachers like why does he mention those three things and said it's okay do i module but I been home bed a lot be wary of the prayer of the oppressed because seldom in our religion in our zeal are we using the ham of this

religion to oppress people right are we actually oppressing people with it or are we actually trying to be people are of taisiya or people know like at our seed right and you know it's like that story of the when the Prophet said how super rugged women kind of public on a person was taken to come before you and they didn't find anything that I do they didn't find anything good and I cried 1 min shake anything from good from him and he said Allah can are you haunted that either nasty except that he was forgiving like he was easy on people well while you Hollister and he was difficult on the one that was going through difficulty and then he says what

kind of a madman you ordered his servants and yet the job was worse so it's a forgiving part in the one that was going through difficulty and then Allah says for Col Allah Azza WA JAL never knew a hot comment read a leaked footage I was on who we have more right on sometimes to forgive him for anything that he's done right so like there is a beauty and just being like you know and there's so many instances in this is the hadith but one of the Companions prayed in the state of janaba right and they one of the Companions snitched on him so yeah also a lot of second flat plate as I grow is your problem

well I just need to on your boy healing up see I was empathetic towards my look at the beauty of this the Heidi ends with for the hakka Rasool Allah meeya he lasted him so them and he just walked away and like what are you gonna do now

bro it's over people can look at that and say like oh there's just some weird like you know progressive thing or some people I think I always kind of like but you guys are trauma janaab and it's like it's you guys are way too conservative it's like no I think there's a attempt of like I'm trying to I I I'm trying to um you know that we try to bring Bradley a la centric worldview where this is not about turning this religiosity into a thaw out the thing that places God the tempting to say like listen guys like people don't realize and I don't want to

sound extreme or you know overdramatic here it was like this is sort of the first time we're see the concept of God at stake right we've never experienced it like the very concept of God is sort of up like people whether people are good or evil people IV but he believed in God at some point right especially and in the before the 19th and the 20th century right but now you're seeing like the rising of like people's or our people are going straight for them you know the guttural when it comes to God at some point and you know I think we just there's an idea of like my you know that's amazing that's very Wow I mean it is true we are

in unprecedented times like that you know conceptually conceptually you know this whole angle that you're saying this is all really you know really reflecting mirroring the the whole concept of massive objectives which once again like you mentioned earlier on with the dog you know with the with the kind of survival at what imam shot to be has massively said in his morph apart with you're very fond of water I know you you've been very keen on that book and you've been kind of studying it and you know how would you sum up this this work of Imam Shafi because you've you're

really like a huge fan of the morph apart from what from what I believes that is that is my favorite book it's my favorite it's so far if you just have two copies over there my zucchini so like I've met this beginning stages so though I'm so young so maybe 10 10 years from now maybe I'll be something what do you feel is its position within I yeah i think i think that what i like about this book is that it gives you a framework of its own and it's attempting

to equip you with understanding or soon these legal functions of law as opposed to being submissive to the law itself right that you're you're you you realize that the law itself is an attempt for you to reconcile your relationship with your Creator and articulate your faith in the what would the cards that you've been dealt with right in and and there's even a chapter in it where he talks about the expression of religion and the Bulava or the bahlul of religion the the table so that the the reaching out of it in other than Arabic in its Arabic wagon

right for somebody to even be considered in scholarship etc etc right and there's this attempt of you trying to basically and I think you mentioned that is the very creatively giving us sort of these tools of expressing our religiosity and in this project as opposed like like we can now argue with because of that book we actually think about things like it's text now what is the best option in the situation that is most we believe there are things we don't know about Rick and and obviously it keeps the Koran on Nussle for and as a focal point and nothing Trump's the book right the key table it's very it's very loyal to the plan

but it also gives you concepts like undead understand how out of works right and it connects for example and linguistically to a medieval malroux right is Convention and customs and connect and I'll give you an example is that you know there's Halloween happens on in America right and there's a big eyed you like permissibly Halloween

whatever you probably give you an example of this is like you know and this is just you know the we're not saying this you know passing or anything but you know one of the things that soda either and I and I sort of shared this with my teachers and and you know was that uh was I don't I don't see it is an issue because of we have this rule in a car but my mana problem if the meaning

is gone then hokum is gone right like we don't need to highly Attica like because the best example right like it's not a Islamic tradition my people think it is right or aura or the you know we do the core Barney after we get like every pair to that we do after something that week slaughter an animal we feed people like that's from universally pre-islamic traditions yeah right hence imam malik didn't differentiate between the boy and the girl he said that they both if you're gonna sacrifice you make no distinction like the other master said we're gonna give two if it's a boy because we should kind of be more happy and have these my service that no like it's just one whether it's a boy or a girl because they don't people uh Makino

never did it this wasn't like you don't recognize it as an Islamic practice so but yeah have things like that but then now you have something else like Thanksgiving right where people which I'm personally more strict on Thanksgiving but Muslims are down with it strict on is in against all four yeah a little bit most Muslims will be like for Halloween's Haram is like Thanksgiving is because for the the pilgrims that went to America yeah well the Colin the the the pilgrims came to America they had essentially they had a

dinner with the the the Native Americans and in the morning the Native Americans were all killed right yeah in the reason why is because I have they're they're people that are messaging and there are people that or Muslims that I know as well as friends are not Muslim I know that are Native Americans and I can see that they are very very sensitive to that topic because they said because and I presented this meaning towards them right and he said no but the mat the matter isn't gone that was that if the presented idea of like hey you know nobody does it for that anymore and they were like now dude you're wrong because you know and I and I agree with them I

think it's not for us to decide at the meaning is gone it's for the oppressed to describe this the side of the meaning has gone right so in that regard I'm actually more concerned and is very interesting with our mosques to Thanksgiving that is right I don't realize that it had an association with the genocide I thought it was just to do with some pilgrims you know the early American pilgrims and then they offered some kind of a meal to kind of be grateful and I thought it was just that being commemorated obviously we're not in America he said we're not familiar with the stories yeah yeah yeah it's it's a little more it's deeper for like Native Americans right yeah so peace so it's usually flipped because people are like oh you know the

Halloween you said like I could use this for kind of like no dude there's nobody's being killed in a Halloween may nobody like you know saying like like it's a you know yeah there's like that but you're promoting sane worship know that bro know how is it by the way and by the way I've never had issues nobody's ever come after me so I don't have the similar screen like I've never

you know when I think about it now we must be you know sometimes I'm speaking to Oh Lamar let's say younger Lamar motherís I graduate and then he goes to me that Wow like actually whether they like my opinions or hate them but to these people I'm from a somewhat of a scene here a group of people isn't it like by age by age simply you want so not that nah I'm not saying whether I feel old but I'm saying to these people it occurs to me that I think oh wow I never thought of it like that you see

like to them I'm from that batch oh they're like 22 or something so yeah that's really fascinating you know what some people have been putting some comments here just to just will take a few quick rapid things I know we've taken up a lot of your time as well sure zaiba Raja had sent in a comment saying I used my tongue like a sword to cut bleed and weaken a stoned heart of a man with sharp words how do I renew his spirit and heart with the Quran that's just such a poetic question I don't know

I'm gonna hand that over to the dashing young share over the how do you renew the Seabury and the heart with the Quran well - that was the question I was like what is he like sort acre you take dashing photographs that like that's the beginning part it says would you like to I mean you know bismillah you know number one there's obviously you know provided well these cause that are given for us from the prophetic traditions of sorts with you I see so did that happen things like that I would say number one

you know to to try to revisit the idea of to be in the Quran after that yet at the Buddha for that so even if it's if it's going to play something around can

also mean to actually have try to you know you know I have build a really emotional relationship for with the book you know that W to come Caputo make your homes like graves in that you know even if it's one verse even if it's the

Fatiha even if it's whatever that you can do to try to keep those recitations whether it's nightly and actually think about what you're reciting and as well as I try to try to get into the habit of reading like if you're memorizing if you're reading something try to get like if you're reading all of you I've seen once a night go through the meaning in English in the language you know before sleeping once and actually think about it we'd the tips here and read about what it means and learn to love you know learn learn to love the book and you know it's in and build a relationship with that and realize that it's not like yeah amazing would see that only

somebody needs such a spiritual mindset could give you that response if you ask me I'll just be like huh but that is amazing very well said this zebras asked another question must eg would you start an online Islamic college Allahu Alem let's see let's see what fate charts for so there was a question here about did the Prophet introduced the word Allah by show three something I can't see his full name yeah now no the Prophet didn't introduce the word Allah the word Allah was already in usage in Arabic referring to

God and he's added to that question oh I mean and this was something you'd like no no I said I said could you imagine it's like if he nobody knew what a lot met and by the end of relation like comment Arabs are like like they're like they're like look just say this one Allah they like okay this one Allah but somebody said now that show three you

are mostly my question is how the people used to read the Quran in early days without vowel marks how did the people used to read the Quran without vowel marks well no you so first of all in the early days of Islam there wasn't know what I like called an as in you kind of picked it up and read it like a book it was an oral tradition secondly when it did start getting documented like in the time of let's say with the automatic script proper that

man kind of codex that we have for the Quran the Mustapha Lewis mani it didn't have these vowels and things like this but the people read it how it kind of flowed to them in a sense like how you read today text message language and you just know what the other person is saying if they spell that as tht or they spell you know when people appreciate wood would you do something or could you as to CD or WD you would just read it as like if I wrote WD you would you you

would just know that so in a similar way they did that but you're right if this was part of what you're questioning it did lead to some differences in how certain words could be read both could be read in that way like if you if you said something like I don't know like in let's say in Arabic like your limb yeah um your limb now some of these in that context may you know maybe one of them only feels but in some context may be more than one fits and hence you get that difference sometimes in the varying recitations yeah so okay any other let's

see what are some firing up some questions here most yourself could you please explain somebody had asked about a teapot I had I said that in the Maliki method it is the same for boy and girl and that is correct yes it is it's the same for boys and girls in the Maliki method right okay any any particular questions for our esteemed guests let me just see those comments here is it true that how judge ably used to have added the vowel marks in the Quran well I mean it's attributed to Haddad apne Yusef some people have said maybe it wasn't

him it was around that kind of time anyway but I mean it's it's attributed but it's not like I don't think it was a huge religious it was more a strategic move because in the time of had judge the cities like Kufa and Basara these things were and some of the other cities as well around they were being heavily populated you had a huge influx of non-arab Muslims into some of these cities like the city was it for example as well in Iraq now I know in some K in some cities they actually put a ban on

non non Arabs residing they because they said we're going they're going to end up corrupting the whole Arab culture now in order to get around that what they did was in some cities they imposed the Arabic language that everybody must be karabük in other cities what they also began to do was white out upon a rollout of policy and saying if you're not Arab you must subscribe to an Arab clan even if you're not so if I let's say I was Persian I was living there now because this was the policy I would probably just go with whatever my friends were

wrong if they happen to be a laquelle me or they happen to be a pooh-bah he or they happen to be from a particular tribe usually wouldn't be the ruling tribes by the way like Omar we or whatever but it would be some of these others like not fun or some of these other places they themselves became my Wiley to those the bite associate eighteen but the reason I'm mentioning that is that gives you an idea that they were struggling as well to read the or answer vowels were placed to kind of facilitate that a rib Association if you like but cool I hope that any interesting questions for Asha right

here's one my question to the shear does cutter we have the usual person is army do you know that you know the one they use in the east yeah in the Indian subcontinent so they will have like let's say a variety of I mean I'm sure there's get the skeletal the kind of skeleton structure is the same but they would let's say you have like obviously fear they'll have a sort of fear they'll have to see if they'll have had different things and as each stage goes by the books intensifies that how it was pretty much yeah um there is they're sort of to what you have that you go to

the you know classes and there's a thoughts with the Sheikh obviously and there they still have the the method of the the Chanukah style for each session right for that and they sort of have a babble hedge and you know like babble bear like sales like chapter on sales and that's like for this one a lot of times and then you have the second sort of what you do that way you should be supposed to your encourage you Tory's supposed to do is actually go to the teachers individually and go Maxim by Matson so you should study if in a share which is the which is the first book that you know you sort of go through a freshman year you do the the you should wear you should wear you also know shuttle create and things like that then you go to the model so that

obviously up to Heidi and you should go book to book to book and then obviously in Mauritania it's strictly book to book to book to book to book the book right miss memorize it sticking to them yeah it's book to book but they're the the the there is a you know when you graduate with Chevy are there there is it goes through it goes through a lot of these different topics and obviously your two hostesses on Arabic and Sharia and there's Parrish civilization right right a question I'd like you to get and then I know we've taken up enough of your time shift but I think this is an important question just before that there's a comment that I think aimed at

me question were you expecting the shift to be traditional in his views as he has been in comparison to your views mom must've late I mean to be fair I what I was expecting Cheryl made to be if that was able to me unless you're speaking of someone else to be pretty much how you are share for made I was expecting that hip element that kind of contemporary understanding and the and the connect the connection to traditional learning right the question I want to ask because you definitely are I'm asked this so often and I struggle to answer this one because I feel in some ways I'm

disconnected in my reading Islamic reading in an is in an English a sense English paradigm so I'm plus my learning to Islam was done such a long time ago now what I read about Islam is only on like niche research things which I'm researching and developing and so it's difficult when people come to me at a and kind of like an entrance level or they an interest level and they will say what do you recommend we should in English be reading because you know we've become interested in practicing Islam and yeah and what

kind of translation of the Quran and what other books would you recommend and I honestly like my the English books I read are just very they're either not non-islamic or they are very detailed on like so here here's a book for example by you know this is by Fred Donna the early Islamic conquest it's incredibly academic and very maybe controversial as well now that's not scary I mean ever or the book I showed earlier on humble ISM from piety to power these are the this is how my English reading is so I I'm at a loss for words what what would you say [ __ ] like I think you'd be a great person good question no I mean I'm

actually I'm actually I'm just getting to my experience with learning in English going through books in English because I've also just been in the environment of just like learning learning the tradition with Arabic texts I've been away from well I mean the first book that I've read ever it not to be honest with you the first book was was which I liked a lot it was footsteps of the Prophet the doctor thought Oh problem on I don't remember that one okay which was worse you know Herrick trove the puts up some footsteps of the Prophet that was the first one I was like in high school when I read that and actually I liked it a lot I don't know I know a lot of people were really moved by that book and then there was a book

in terms of translation of thing I think the only person I could think of is doing translations of like Islamic books on laws Musa furbish Musa Ferber who's based I am reading any things I hate humbly ma I mean I don't mean like necessarily their translating but people might say now that I'm interested in Islam I want to read something what you recommend I should read what's a great question

I just I literally bought it last week so or two weeks ago two weeks ago so so I mean I'm going through it will see in chawla I mean so far it's it's I like how it has different like Tufts here but if I seen it right BA for somebody or did not would it be to completely I I don't yeah I don't know for that one I really like the MS I believe one that that's what yeah that one is good and dr.

mirage is book called revelations which is a really great book on serie because he's a physician a doctor and what he basically did was he you know he learned serie and he realized like listen when I learn see you know it's all of these different talks and they're all over the place that's right called fret elations revelations right and at all these books and talks in their short all over the place I'm gonna bring it down or there's like books like you know Martin Ling's rehearsal on day who had this beautiful book but it's Barry had the English lies because I've only read a tiny amount of it I was asked just on this Monday night what's my opinion on it I said look I'm gonna be honest I have got it here some way I said I did start reading ages ago

and I never really were ready I've heard great things about it but I don't give you my personal it's heavy it's heavy the level of like it is a little heavier it's a little more like you you have to read it as a document more than the cool thing about dr. mirages I think is it's it's it's you know he's and he writes it like a book with visuals in it so things up it's very easy to memorize it's not like very you know like some of these zeros are a bit vicious and you know it's like somebody contacted me yesterday saying look I was an American contacted me saying look I was doing

some university research I had to submit a thesis on marriage in Islam and all the only books I could find I think she managed to submit something but she was saying it had like ridiculous kind of state you know like so outdated statements and things like if the story about a man who I think she said stabbed her life sorry stabbed his wife in the I've so many times like 15 times or something because she said something insulting to him or something like this and just going on I mean complete the main point being that the books were so in a state

of disconnect with our day and age is this miracle is it something that you miracle or so revelations is it something no the user-friendly very interactive it's very it's a very good tool for teachers that are also teaching to learn in terms of teaching method right because it's very good much I mean Allah reward him he's done an awesome job with it and there's a lot of people there's things that are happening now as we speak right there's thing I mean I know a dr.

Abdullah he's produced now he's having his new book that's coming up into theology I believe but basic essentials and things like that yeah it's it's basically I think I think it's you know I mean I think it's like traditional books that are translated in a way that is accessible to people is mainly the all the issues always language that's the big the accessibility of language so there are certain things out there I really am obviously there is a there was there was

a great book that I liked recently called hearts turn by Michael zubich which was really cool stories in there it's a really inspirational very nice stories you know learning store what's that one called hearts that hearts turn hearts turn yeah all right Stern but uh but yeah I mean things like that um we do we name it we do we need to do a better job with English stuff though so I mean I'm sure there is a lot out there as well it's just I I feel

sometimes I'm you know people ask me and I'm kind of handicapped in you know answering them because I you know it's like you you get so much into something that you're at a different kind of place to other people and you can't sometimes like anything you can refer to is meaningless for them and you know they want you that's you know you're so far away from that stage now and you don't know what's available so I love asking other people who are perhaps yeah in tune with that sure right I shoot issue thank you you know what this has been awesome I've really great

company people those of you that want to get in touch with with the chef and I encourage you to you especially those of you in Chicago shy town or America this I'm telling you this is a rising legend in person right so I made Hasib on Facebook has I made her sleep yeah yeah I have tagged him into my post earlier on today so if you're looking for his profile you can find envy you're not on Instagram or anything like I'm I'm more active on Instagram

okay what's the same thing Emil made her see Oh Maron store at sea oh is it just a always Instagram just for the for the womenfolk when I said [ __ ] wish like contact he's like I'm on Facebook which has like three posts on it and all his Instagram he's like really lively but that's just for I don't accept friend requests reach out to the chef and anybody you know sometimes I get questions about people wanting to study

in Morocco I would say once again I will definitely love to forward people to contact you if that's okay with you especially because I think you know you'd be a huge wealth of experience and knowledge for that people right take very good care of yourselves if you haven't already liked and subscribed to my channel then god damn you what what are you waiting for and likewise attend shift are your online classes public are they oh no no no no no no variety in the book okay oh

right no so in that case you're too late people you've missed the ship but anyway take very good care of yourselves right you doing it mind that that it was awesome man honestly I really enjoyed I think it was and I think a lot of the people definitely were enjoying I mean it was it was you know for them I could see some of the comments I wasn't you know so we didn't disrupt our flow of conversation