¿Amigo-Enemigo? Part 2: Hatred, Sectarianism, and the Dangers of Takfir

moving on to the next question she was about so again thank you for introducing and telling us about yourself it was a novel it was important a nice night one those who were speaking to who the guys coming from a sheer background myself you coming from a Sunni back gone I'm Austin Libre background you might not know of it as much but your because you know about the intrud abates and as well as out six Arian ones the issue of tech fear amongst Muslims excommunication as he was caught in

English this issue that's widespread and you could say in you know back in the day it was like you know maybe confined to move along with the hormone would kind of deal with this above our heads and it was there in the books but was one of those ones where scholars had that respect and they would be now look mr. Scoleri think the Obama knows don't get involved in this almost like the tree doesn't exist no no I'm saying you know there are at times it's a very stupid but the concept of you know just the common guy is throwing a chopper and it's become so bad where Muslims Hardy was in Salaam or even even within today I would say to an extent is ground

breaking down that was so what would be on the CR or your background behind there of how it leads to stadium how we can actually fix this see I think the takfeer phenomenon declaring people care Felix is excommunicating them it's I just leave that to the unit yes but yeah because it's like this is this is quite shocking because we've become trigger-happy with that fear Catholic Africa Africa Africa it's not just

towards she is true even in Sweden like people call me like I've been called a Kaffir because i problematize this thing will Jesus come back oh Jesus about your castle Wow like like why do you feel that this Iman this faith is something which you have the right of Chuck people like it like I said you know st. your dad seemed like if anybody wants to be a part of this theme it's really understanding traditionally the understanding was this that there may be certain claims that people may say okay we believe this claim like the old man would say maybe cool like if somebody starts saying okay there's two gods we believe this is cool

for they weren't obsessed about saying you are the kaffir yes I'm not saying they were never phenomenons yeah but because I'm not denying history but what I'm saying there wasn't an obsession yes you see the amount of variation goes away from your city like what the hell and yeah maybe if people kind of pressurized them they might have once won two incidences it was like clear but not like the way it became now it to become like if you don't do like doing the fetus then boom the next rule is the first who doesn't do it up straight

he's a conference or you don't say this is what you know I really like that thing that Maulana tariq jameel supp said he said like I don't understand like he said because he has this whole thing on unity of law and he said a low pressure bring a lot of slate especially with a shield you know he made this statement that he said look he said like God food company like we like to go like I don't understand what's the obsession on choking people out of Islam like what are we do we feel there's a shooter you're performing and what's the

why are we then obsessed with on one hand our let's convert people of the statement they took people out because it's like because it compared people to exactly what our point if you differ slightly and they normally just do the treat of them you know call them a deviant and then maybe in a year starts from there so I mean I it's interesting you think we did this emerge I think maybe some people can do detailed studies of this I know it's it's been quite common it's definitely common today people do this blackmailing thing of like oh you don't put them a car through your car

you know this and in Pakistan they do these ten of like these lollies like like if you don't open cafe then eunuch has broken and you're about this black if you go to if they say if you go to a chi or modulus even if you're the remember that a lot of women these days like there's a joke that advises that the woman will go to the imam stop and say well no stop manically - this is so this kind of you see this is a way to emotionally guilt-tripping blackmail strong wrong the public because the public might not understand Iman but

when you say me can they think oh damn this is like I'm a strong arm is associating yourself yes so this kind of this this phenomenon and and I do believe that we I suppose the Wahhabi movement Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab this in his time anyway this is a highly eccentric teacher because he even I mean not even she unnecessarily but mainstream Muslim a more of them go far for a googol wars that lead on off to the seat that was yet witnessed it was based on although I think the seller fear afterwards or not on his level per

se he was on a he was just like the priest closer and he was really weird because he declared all the bad doings of his time so far he was Bedouin but he declared the other better wins because he said Allah Allah who I should do Cooper I wanna you know like this person I

need to say so he's got this whole the whole amount knows they my shy of noticing or making this since that all the been doing is go far round so this but the self here today are not on his level maybe some of them are but most of them yeah but they still have that foundation yeah these kind of streaks streaks in ball come off unfortunately full of a bit of hate yeah and that's such a shame and other people have it as well I mean it's not sure though is it stops dialogue yeah because it's not mine once you stop dialogue in these segments ation of Muslim thought of course and because you don't understand

me I don't understand you and we just carry on because more than this as well you see I think see this is my understanding I think like let's say now we're speaking about let's say Shia Sunnis I think most people majority of the Muslims don't even know what necessarily Sunni Islam is and don't even really know what she's like they've got some idea of keywords like they're gonna say okay I think the public would think okay they are inclined towards I Lee yeah they let's say go on about the family of the Prophet true on then they have like this say some some understandings that all day against the

Companions let's see and they will probably say oh we are like they I think most people don't even really know what necessarily Sunni Islam uses except it's just the main screen is just amazing and then amongst themselves is all disagreements anyway now the common public which i think is probably one ninety percent of Muslims they see like what is the way forward for them because what so the understanding is this like wit what are we to say like wow you know people will ask like like I had once somebody call me and say you know they want to get married I think some woman I can remember whether she was shy oh honey but she was

one of the other if you want to marry the person opposite I don't know which one she was in which one ago but it killed you but they're not they asked me so they asked me on the phone right so look listen and her understanding was like I just don't get like like enormous I could totally just don't understand it like why can't we all must live in the u.s. like you know believe in Allah leaving this is really cool because she don't really know anything I remember which one she was but we don't know what necessarily sunni was was in the city and she was just really confused on listen this is a prime example of how the common person is thinking so the

question is well how do you move forward in life how do you move all like what is the I hid the fact look if we're gonna dig up if people just want to dig up dirt it's gonna be tell everybody yeah it's gonna be like obviously every SEC has something every group every denomination it's gonna have like Wakko same things yeah it's like look at all this stuff I've recently brought out in some other this sunni literature brought out which people have any turned a blind guy do you know like saying the Satanic Verses could be legitimate even at a mere loosing it you know you've got even a hide you're endorsing it you I think that they don't really want to deal with that but my point is like that's a white

core thing to say you know the the prophet that this this whole thing that I've said in quite saying oh you forgot before I need to make mistakes in the pot making business like these are crazy resdac before you get my point is but it's not just it's this whole thing that everybody said crazy stuff like if we just want to pick on people and I'm sure you know people say look this year they'll say that once again they'll say if people have said it but the she I would say the Quran is incomplete or they'll say that she I would say Imams are higher than the prophets or they'll say that this kind of stuff now it wouldn't surprise me if some tree

I've said that yeah just as some some needs have said certain things now my point is how do people move over cause cause how do people be just like do we just you know like might dissipate you you just hate me do we just stop nice like that like I just have a copy of it can be covered havoc of it have a cup of you know it's like or we go we go it's like one of my teachers Abdullah Montagu South great great teacher actually but at the time you see this is another thing at the time you see they've seen in Karachi sometimes

this Shia Sunni thing was things and plenty bombings like you square ridiculous stuff mind honestly I don't understand how the value of life is so cheap so cheap I don't know everybody applied as long as we slow this relation to blood and even relation to religion like because at the end of the day it's in the name of God it's not even in the name of you know like you can understand people have a personal argument fight over land fight over wealth and the end up killing each other over God like what the hell is that about so now he once said he said a harness or which was what he was talking on which group but he said that they've written

on the ward like he goes like some people had been killed and they caught like somebody had written on the wall in that paint Cup tomorrow get like up until when will you kill ourselves and he goes filled but he like he immediately impromptu I came up with the response that GTI [Laughter]

my point is like you see this mentality of saying look and like like the waiter there's a poem which I've said before actually part of it with the guy says is for us hard to Nibbana a douche varsa like it's difficult to get my like these two people are so maybe conversa you know it's just swords clashing walls how do we move forward so my point has been look the common Muslims don't know this stuff they don't really understand it can't we just move like okay this thing's we don't this isn't so the things we disagree on clearly just fine just don't discuss them yes I'm just move forward like we would do it like let em sit with them unless anything with somebody totally different we have

no problem sitting with non-muslims they say I know people might say yeah but that's because sect among Muslim says I think it's not we have no problem seek with an atheist it doesn't even believe in God you guys could be my friend like I've got a few friends ladies now fine we've got no problem doing that but if he's a Muslim you know it's like that click that click the Pakistani tip the guys on the tree about to commit suicide hilarious is like don't commit suicide

this is what we like we have this thing of and to the common Muslim this makes no sense like yes everybody's gonna have skeletons no it's what the point is you are we pushing that today like if as long as we're not so I'm not like one is if we push like okay one is having opinions one is okay one thing I would say is okay there's no abuse abuse aside and generally I think I've heard use a lot support and several Shyama I quoted several several Shia or Lamar Sistani and other people saying that it's Haram to kind of pursue stuff like this because look it just this isn't the way to do things even if you disagree with

people or whatever now look okay put that stuff aside the rest look it's fine look okay when I say fine I might have my own - I know you why can't we just just get along like a rock the thing everyone discussed that we'll just move forward and you know a swab is like that's in relation to shia-sunni from day the the scope is so smooth that even within your own one because I said like look I'm doing this is a prime example three reason given these are almost like just twins

identical almost I mean twins they like those non identical community they're both Hanafy both sub-continental both got just a few hundred a hundred years ago they they both am actually Dina Peter both they both are generally much breathing of the air that they both like everything is the same they both Sufis follow the same kind of thing without the song wolf of gypsies or not too many whether they are now the only thing they disagree on a few issues issues and that too may be based on just

two things one it may be based on misunderstanding and it may just be based on a bit of stubbornness of people refusing to criticize like I'm not gonna say yeah II made a mistake yeah you just say if I made a mistake you made a mistake what do you do like you save something people say like look like you know mentioned like Imam Ali I'm just saying look at like legends like even like in my Malick students would say that look wouldn't I show the one of his key students somebody presented him to hear but Malik said this they said well he said you know Malik is Miley but in Carla homily and even if Malik said listen Allah will be my mind we're not his servants or slaves at the end of the day he's a legend but he you know eyes and the the famous statement that was

sent about in my Malik as well though he said that my liquor beer left in that hot the truth is you know as I've said about about Plato's well but anyway that but the whole thing is that but the truth is greatest is bmareschal dearest but the whole thing is now why statement yes these are great people we love them yes if somebody made a mistake fine you know it doesn't okay you can acknowledge a mistake you can say but okay because of this stubbornness and a few maybe some misunderstandings as well they can never look look how close they

are hate each other with their hatred so I think it's to do with robber than even different sex I think it's just to do with me into my nice clothes and the mindset I think especially where basically it's getting imported from our country yeah where we originally from messiahs coming from there because how are you gonna happen in the UK born and bred hair will not put that so how you how is that in your mind there because I literally being obvious or your waves just goes back to the point family members land they do not they often do they often do family members are often no different just don't do a Hobby Lobby

definitive when you disagree with somebody find you just don't need to have a disclosure actually or don't like you might think look you know what I can't handle this situation let's just say I think look icon and it's like somebody contacted me a little while back he actually got a friend in a week but he said to me I want to debate this like as in not debate as in like scholarly level but debate I seem like he wants to kind of discuss with me back and forth about proving to me that I shadowed the Alana was a child you want

to kind of prove to me some you like I just I got upset like I just said you know don't discuss this with me I don't want to talk about this my video knee I've got my stuff funny if you're just gonna keep justifying to me what sounds like pedophilia I don't want to hear it so my point is but he said I said look if I don't want to discuss the meadow and discuss it because what you're hearing is just nonsense and I don't wanna partake in this analysis of yours I'm just gonna be clear look I don't want to talk about this now I've got a detailed video on it and I'll do more on it but it's not that I'm backing away from the discussion but right now you just keep going

because the point is okay I think not there are like I saw a video recently I

don't know personally a modern x1 but I've seen his video clips now I saw a clip recently shared by some people trying to highlight contradictions of his yeah so I saw some clip which seemed recent once again I don't know how they seem by the quality of its seen them the way he looked it seen more recent in the he was saying that look we Sunni Shia whatever we need to kind of have some points of unity move forward we have a lot more in common than we do have against each other yeah so we need to kind of like at kind yes we've got our differences but put them a bit like turn like tone it down so you're saying this

and then the person was showing like an older clip where he's kind of saying that these who needs a lot of plot and stuff ladies now I just felt like I watch that it came up on my YouTube thing and I watched it and I felt look and there's another Shia scholar who was you know she say some very interesting things actually very well-versed very learn it should come out hate that he grew so I thought you would like you take a liking to or no people don't think he's very critical of the Shia and they quoting him as well so they had him saying look oh we need kind of like unity but then they had an older clip where you say

dissing the Sunnis so I felt look I'm not saying that people wouldn't have said that yeah look if you'd asked me there was a time when I I would probably if I'm gonna be introspective and looking to my own self and I'm gonna think that there was a time where I would have been intolerant and I would have been intolerant towards Shia because I wouldn't have known about the Shia thing and I would have just been part of the same product and I'm not grown up around Shia and I've not known anything about them I've just been told things by people or they don't they believe that you've really made a mistake and Miley was meant to you don't if you don't you know the boy it's also the who exactly saw I would have been

just as intolerant as the next person so if you ask me a wallet like Miss a twirl back I may have said this is gonna be happening so exactly and now now can you now my point is now let's say I am saying this now like we need unity now somebody says okay let's find an okay you won't get probably an old clip of mine like well what's the point of trying to undermine the message of unity by trying to say you have so many years ago you said this you probably did say people children would learn like we all think like yeah you know like how do we move forward it's like somebody said to

me and I respect this local talk obviously talk if he is watching this like he he asked me looked but there's a lot of things and he made some genuine questions he said look there's a lot of things which he said like he's personally heard from Shia very problematic very kind of this and they've opened up and they've said this stuff to him and I've said that look and he said that mostly you know I heard your Monday nights with most the last one this is not this one but a few back and he said that you know you mentioned about the needs to be kind of unity between she answered me and he said you know but you don't really know what the Shia oboe and they like these something like that and I've known them person and I actually

believe he's genuine and I believe he has met those people but I said to him look but the thing is the two things one these wackos in Sunnis as well like this wacko like let's say what's the name yes sir like I said look like that you're gonna get some peace like Isis people you veneer for myself like you're gonna get all kinds like even if they're not like butchering people but they still got wacko views they would consider all of us go far yeah no exception like so but then I said look the second most important thing I said to him look I'm not disagreeing this stuff may exist in society a probably does I'm not I wanna

be surprised that's not my issue my issue is where is the message of hope yeah like where is the hope like if I if we all cling to this kind of like then where is hope at the end of the day like he'll help you how does anything move forward like if we just like you know like oh we just clash and just hate and you hate and I hate him I think when people get Miss confuse I'm gonna say unity is that word what does it mean by unity unity is coexist exactly and salvation for me I will take and I'm probably you might agree or feel free to disagree by unity we mean coexistence it doesn't mean I didn't become a mother you become a she-wolf are getting one

with you exactly when you say the Credo unity they think that no law school that people get all that look and never have friends and we could never be like I have to respect your intellectual legacy and you just use like Mike you just got it like you said we hate on they coexist harmoniously system because if we can do it on our own Muslims yeah like at the end of the day you're going from history as well I mean yes yeah why did you happen because I'm having some rules yeah and the thing is this look it should they be they needs to be a message of hope

yeah hope is to necessary like everything that having no hope is not the way forward like even if we disagree fine if somebody is you know if something if somebody's out of order they probably we will find people out for them but the thing is there needs to be a message of hope because truth be told we have obviously ultimately it's one god one messenger one book you know it's not ultimately now we all disagree online pages there ultimately at the end of the day this is what it is now yes you know I'm like okay Yoshi ah you know I'm so near we disagree on

certain thing but hooky I know that's in my life I do that that's in your life why can't we sit together be civil why can't we have compassion why it's all yes all dinosaurs have made these borders that I puke on young times it's almost like that is when the pressure is immense because I would say especially especially like I would say sometimes from the Sudanese I think the pressure is hard as well I repeat already got told that you know you should mix and it's from the Sunni side it's like oh whoa why are you sitting with them you know it's always like that so an example would be like very you get immediately blacklisted you'd get immediately kind of like why

doesn't he just call himself a Shia I'm wearing white [Laughter]