Brave New World by Aldous Huxley | Book Lounge #2 [Monthly Book Club]

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see what let's just do it and i wonder if on youtube is it showing because it's not showing on here oh yeah i'm on youtube and it's not showing it's not showing yes i said it's saying uh waiting for mufti i would like um you sure you had that like button or something yeah because it doesn't yeah because normally on youtube because it still seems to be saying connecting the software to go live once you go live but which you see we're already live

on the broading software the youtube's supposed to have a button which appears says go live but this for some reason um it's just still kind of in its loop saying that oh we're clicking you know we're going live let me just check no other thing is on here like there is no that's off good there's an old monday night swim off these thing you see i don't want that to be connected nope it's not mine trap this one is connected yep streaming source uh

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people welcome welcome back to september's end of month uh for a moment i had to pause and think is it september or is it september's end of month book lounge book discussion people and this month we've been taking a look at aldous huxley's brave new world an epic and a must read which has actually been listed amongst the top it's been listed amongst the top 100 top

50 books that one must read before they die and that is aldous huxley's brave new world okay so i'm just gonna allow people to just tune in whilst we're doing this and i'll also just get some background playing and people adam was saturn just want to say to those joining us today in this discussion we've got

uh starting in the top there we've got lee from the united states with us shukran once again and on the other side facilia from the middle east and look now right and scorpio shukran for joining us from uh texas i believe yes and we've uh we've got one or two others but i think their cameras have gone into we did have safe and azamat as well but we'll let them join so

so people right first of all um how do you guys find this book i mean it's it's deemed one of the most uh an absolute must read before people before they say goodbye to their life and it's got a very strange theme which surprisingly is still it's written we're talking you know in in the early uh 20th century but it's still in many ways incredibly relevant talk to us about it should we lee talk to us about your experience of

uh reading reading this book and what do you what what are your initial thoughts straight away before we get into some of the topics and um the fascinating quirks of it yeah my initial response to that book was just whoa you know it was as you mentioned it was totally relevant and uh i think i shared this with you but it really for me caused me to have a lot of reflection about

what it means even what it means spiritually as a person and you know so often we are called upon to you know release our humanity you know like pray thicker be patient go within but it was fascinating because it would seem that this they allowed themselves to almost you know release that humanity that wanting that desire and yet um

so people who are not too familiar with the book i mean this is a it's it's about a it's actually meant to be allegedly about a utopia or what some people may call a dystopia ironically but it's it's set in the future far future where humanity has kind of moved away from the the the day-to-day natural world that we have and we've moved into just a highly functional society where people just have

they're just made with a particular purpose babies are no longer born they're made in factories they are um just one moment they're made in different classes there's like a a caste system almost but a class system so you you'll have people who are just alphas that are made with certain optimum goals and people who then are baiters or deltas or epsilons who do the kind of demeaning work and they will have they will lack mental capacities but the strange thing is in this

future world everybody is happy allegedly i mean that's that's what the whole theme is about and they are designed in a way to just be happy that's all they know it's almost like the matrix from coming back to us and in some ways like plato's republic in saying where everybody has a role they're conditioned to accept whatever place in life they were created to be and without any um mobility upwards or downwards yeah and and it's interesting because

the people in this world they they have a there is no worry apparently there's no diseases there's no illnesses there's you know there's no everybody's well fed everybody gets they fulfill their purpose in life they have um but yet such a utopia is is is quite dystopian it's quite problematic i mean what uh jumping so if scorpio what uh what are your

kind of um key thoughts on that why would that be because from what we what we've read in this book it's a perfect world apparently but yet it isn't what because how is that how do we how do how does one recogni reconcile that what why is it not a perfect world if there's no illnesses no diseases everybody's fed everybody's closed everybody has uh happiness everybody's happy i mean to me it was kind of like they need this endless supply of the drug soma and without it

they're still feeling like peer pressure like if they don't exactly um like lenina la nina if um she was only with one person she felt the social pressure is still to conform to those um to those standards that were placed upon her yeah that's interesting because they don't have uh so there's no monogamy is uh is something which is of of the of the past it's not something which there's no such thing really people it makes zero sense why would anyone

be monogamous in that world and everybody is in fact their famous motto everyone is for everyone and everyone serves everyone in in some way that sounds so lofty everyone serves everyone and everyone is for everyone but um yeah um i mean what safe wha what about your thoughts on on this dystopian utopia um so wait can you hear me first yeah you are slightly low but

slightly low all right maybe i'll speak louder um so man i feel like we already live in that age almost there because you know how they had like epsilon delta betas and alphas we already have those in uh in our society if you're gonna you know um you know paycheck-wise uh how people live where they live you know if you like uh if you live somewhere in california people will know that you might be like high class or something like that versus if you live somewhere else um and i feel like yeah but the person who is yeah but the person who is in the lower

strata of the society they still want to be at the upper strut of the society they still want to be in that place but in this world they are happy they are happy with being miserable so maybe that's the difference because there will always be differences in the society but what makes humanity running is that humans they just want to evolve they want to improve their condition but what happens in this dystopian world is that you don't have to improve yourself you're just good the way you are you have no desire and the weird thing is that they're killing that desire by feeding your desire by giving them stuff by giving them soma by giving them materials and lots of things they are killing desire

of moving forward by feeding that desire you know you know you said that i was going to just just a slight question there like you said there that they it's interesting because if uh because for zilla you said they are miser like people today still aspire to hire um you know ideals so people today are still uh you know they want to be you said people live in you know different states but they still have higher goals and aspirations but those people are miserable and but they are

just you know they're happy being miserable but you see the irony is they don't they don't understand miserable so they are just happy yeah they don't see themselves being miserable because they're taught to be happy right the reason yeah the reason that it's a dystopia in a utopia is because they don't have aspirations i think yeah that is so powerfully captured yeah it's the aspirations argue that we have like music videos and tv shows that teach you to like love yourself and accept yourself and you know i feel like

a lot of people are stagnant and they're you know positioned or like they're that they don't grow in life because they're already happy with what they have like whether they're living on welfare or their middle class or low class or high class they're just happy with their culture and family and everything like that um you know like that's my experience with people at least here in america you think people are you think people are content it's rare you think people are content with the they don't have aspirations as well like no there are some people who would like go to college and try to improve their life and go you know go from low

class to middle class to high class but i feel like there's a lot of movies and music that kind of promotes uh you know just be yourself be who you are and enjoy yourself and people would just spend their money you know on something like just for like the soma like for the gratification they wouldn't invest it in learning or education or anything like that they were just invested in invested in buying more music buying more tv uh movies consuming right buying the new iphones computers whatever uh so that's all consumption which is and for for people just in case you haven't

read the book soma is in this new world of huxley uh people they have a um they have a drink or or sorry it's it's it's it's given in grams so whether they yeah they they take it in grams and they have these rhymes with it that 10 grams does this don't give a damn and if you take this many and it gets rid of all kind of uh uh this depression all causes of depression so they take these pills and they are always very just they they go on some um

elated trip where they feel really pleasant and this is the the kind of holidays but except people are taking them on a daily basis it's not like today people maybe at the end of the year maybe in the middle of the year take a holiday they take this virtual holiday by taking this pill and they named them different things you've got a luna trip you've got this trip you go to the moon you do this you do that you feel you feel wonderful and you come out and you're so happy and you just carry on with life again you go back to the factory if you or if you're an epsilon you clean and you or if you're an alpha you still do your thing and right no i agree with you but also

consumption helps them to be happy where they're where they are right i think that was one of the consuming and producing and we do live in a society where it's just mass consumption and mass production yeah but they still aspire to consume more you know they still aspire but in this situation in this dystopian situation or so-called utopian they just don't aspire to be anything they just they're just happy with what they have they have absolutely because a human what aspiration does he have he could have aspirations for love but love doesn't exist in this world he could

have aspiration for power but your place is already decided so you can't actually think of oh i want to conquer this country because why do war and why does instability happen instability and war mainly happen when your aspirations don't match with aspirations of other partisans then you fight over it there wouldn't be uh like a trojan war if it was in this world everyone would be like uh helen of troy would be like everyone belongs to everyone no war so they just kill the ass they just killed everything that leads to aspiration they just killed everything

they so uh so safe so in in for people that haven't read it that they upon birth and pre-birth they they are put through certain kind of almost like surrogacies where the developmental let's say the intellectual development of let's say epsilons the lowest the low caste they it's stunted and it's designed in a way that they then and followed by conditioning as well once they are born they don't it's that that's what they are they so they would never look to you know i want to be an artist for example no i agree with you but like i could also

argue that people who are you know born in low class they just enjoy like they're happy where they are and they don't see themselves as like getting going to college or going to school and they just follow the footsteps of their grandma i mean grandparents and fathers right i mean we are also pre-conditioned by our family and culture and society it's conditioning but can these people not themselves like let's say a person anything else but also like you have that dictatorship governments that kind of like stagnant people so that's also happening right like religion is used to prevent growth

at least in egypt people would like i know scholars are moved to like uh demands they were like oh yeah just make babies so you can go to heaven and poor people will make more babies but then they don't have food to you know feed them like they become poorer and poorer and then they force the sons and the daughter to work for low labor and it's just an endless cycle you know we already live in that kind of

the poor people they don't actually uh produce more kids because they're happy with what they have there are many factors to why why do they do that actually one of them is that they don't have health care and other is that in countries like africa there is a high chance that your child might die before the age of five so the mothers are like okay we need to have you know a backup plan don't you also think it's don't you think it's contraception as well contraception is a is an issue as well do you think that's because people often i'm sure many babies are not

many babies to the dismay of many children to them to the dismay of many children the health care aspect you know oh that's what you mean by the health health but that's the whole health care i think what safe might be trying to say was that at least in america like we do see a lot of people who will be depressed or maybe they are just they make like what was it there was a study that said that if you make about like seventy 70 000 in america um that's kind of like the baseline for happiness that gives you enough to where for each person your basic needs are met

so after that you do see a lot of people who are just content working their nine to five they make around that much money but they don't aspire to be like managers or they don't aspire to take on more responsibility and stuff like that they're just good but do you feel the the difference would be that could these could these people suddenly switch let's say let's say a person is poor and let's say they are totally dull of aspirations totally dull and then one day you know their life is

totally let's say it's miserable and then they one day i don't know let's say a person wakes up he he looks at he looks at the sunrise he looks at like he goes into a meditative state he reflective state sorry and thinks what the hell am i doing with my life i'm gonna pull myself together and they they and they do and let's say they start and so if they want to switch can they not switch because the difference in the brave new world like the epsilon it's capped it's the ceiling they they're on they've been

born in a way that they will not have they won't want to be an alpha or the beta or even the the delta they just want to be an epsilon uh they have also alluding right you're right um i think it also was alluding to like while they were being created like the test tube babies they would put different things in to yeah lower their intellectual uh capability they would use alcohol and different things to stop there yeah like they kept on saying that bernard was different because they put like alcohol alcohol yeah

so i feel like maybe in today's world those might be um those might be like genetic differences that people have i don't know there are some people who are so clinically depressed that they unless someone takes them or someone calls the cops on them like here we have a 5150 where what's the cost you know basically yeah like they're um if they're suicidal or yeah so you know like an actual mental health crisis so in america at least i know that you can call the cops on someone who's like

actively being suicidal and the cops and probably a mental health response team will go and they will be involuntarily booked but when these people leave often they just go back to their regular kind of status quo and a lot of like right now neuroscience is you know making lots of new discoveries and finding out that some people might have that genetic component that they are going to be sort of at that level unless they actively take drugs or medication or something like that and i know meditation and um but like ironically in in huxley's

brave new world people don't commit suicide and they don't um even when they choose to to die they just kind of take so much soma and they just keep taking soma and then they just just died out yeah it lights out no but i also would like to add like a lot of people don't want to go through the struggle to grow right it doesn't have to be like it doesn't have to be money-wise it could be like you know uh whether you know studying a new subject or learning a new language it takes a lot of you know energy and the struggle that she had you know the struggle is too much some people

just give up midway or like going to the gym and working out some people just get exhausted in the first week and quit it and they would be content with their own state you know oh you know i'm happy with my own body i eat whatever i want i drink whatever i want but like doctors would say that he's living an unhealthy life and his you know his lifespan will shorten he would have diabetes he'll have health problems right and i feel a lot of people don't want to grow because the struggle is too much so they rather rather just have like the you know instant gratification whether it's like you know sex or consumption of

uh materialism or you know soma which i think our tsum is like what alcohol or marijuana i don't know um so i feel like that this book reflects a lot about our nature like human nature in general right like the big picture if you took all human and put put them in one person you find those people you find this one person doesn't want to grow uh like even if he's in the wild alone right to kind of like survive in the wild you have to go through a lot of pain and just to like you know make fire and hunt and all that but a lot of people just don't do it like they would just rather

die or just have a peaceful whatever you know an interesting character in the book linda who is the mother of john the savage when she's dropped off in in the reservation the the which is the savages the the the non-civilized people um she doesn't really adapt to their culture yeah she doesn't really understand it to be honest and she yeah she just dies with overdoses

yeah i mean it has to do with what you guys are talking about so this is a quote this yeah this is a quote from the book and it says till at last the child's mind is these suggestions and the sum of the suggestions is the child's mind and not the child's mind only the adult's mind too all his life long the mind that judges and desires and decides made up of these suggestions but all these suggestions are our suggestions and

it's interesting because um i definitely would agree with um safe that i have also um found this to be true what he's saying um to an extent and i would say that you know when we're talking about pedestrians i think that i think that um there is certainly an amount of conditioning purposely or okay i'm gonna have to come back hold on one sec oh okay i think they stopped um

i think that there's there's conditioning purposeful and um not purposeful which can um bring about the consequences that maybe he's talking about so it's interesting because in their world there's no choice whereas in you know the world that we live in there is choice but then from like for example from a non-duality perspective some would argue that there actually isn't choice and everything that you are is the culmination of

everything that's happened up until this point which is why you should have you know compassion i mean there's many reasons to have compassion but i wouldn't necessarily agree to that i do think that we can um you know reverse conditioning and you know circumstances can arise and that can happen but yeah that's just something i like because i was going going to say that when you say they have no choice but they do have choice like they have free will or in some in in their way they they they can so for example they can choose to go with this person choose to be with that person they have uh

they can they they they're not automatons or like robots absolutely just kind of just walking along but they are conditioned in a way that the they i suppose their objectives and their standards by which they live so promiscuity are more like clothes their options are like closed that's why they just think that oh i have free wills but they just when they haven't seen another option and if that option is shown to them as wrong because when they see families they're like ew that's gross why would you have a family why would you have a mother

or a father or anything of that sort so they are so the uh options they could choose they are shown to be wrong they're shown to be gross that's why they don't go that path but is that not you see something that's so like conditioning yeah because i was gonna say is that not also one like huxley let's say from his books perspective could argue well is that not also just what uh human beings are already so let's say they they are disgusted at the thought of a family like they the word mother and father is ridiculous to them because babies are born in in these

hatcheries and um and even though some humans can still give birth so not all humans are sterile and like linda she gives birth to a baby now that's a disgusting such a primitive thought for them like ancient man would do that and why would you attach yourself to one when the state you are really part of the state i mean every it's a bit like plato's all children we all belong to everyone and there is no there isn't a couple there's just everyone you know if you like someone you can just be with them

intimately and everybody has that ideal um so for arguing from his books perspective you see but we as humans already have certain ideals like we also have certain you could say well for example let's take relationships as an example now let's say even parents children we have fostering we have adopt adoption we have like this is i'm just saying a different institute where we are putting people with a center for example in an adoption center in a fostering institute and even

if you take the institution of marriage or relationships uh people would have like we as humans today would have all kinds of relationships there's going to be normal heterosexual there's going to be homosexuals there's going to be polygamous there's going to be polyandrus so if people in the himalayan mountains where um polyandry where there's many husbands and just one wife that to most many civilizations are so of like many societies would sound really weird if you said to you know many let's say societies around

the globe today that oh there's one wife and she has five husbands uh but in that himalayan mountain in those regions it's the norm so to them they'll be like that's just normal and to other people it'd be so in their world they're thinking well this is just normal nobody owns anyone even if you have a bit so the character um isn't it um lenina she has a bit of feelings for bernard or but she doesn't understand these feelings like she she

she does have some attraction because first she's with i think uh henry foster or someone or she's with someone else and then because nobody belongs to anyone but she does feel a bit of something and and then towards obviously the savage as well john the savage but it's the conditioning is overpowering and saying well okay you've got this feeling but what is you know what is what does it mean yeah because one is also go ahead no because i was going to say one could argue from their perspective from their perspective of the book that look well

if you translate love as care then everybody cares for everyone else and they see to each other's needs and the state sees to your needs um kind of like there was so much control like down to the very tiny details that it felt like if that the fact that the state was given control over this kind of conditioning like they had the death desensitization where the little um little kids would go with hospitals yeah

um so it feels like it wasn't like an organic kind of in today's world you have different cultures have their own sort of conditioning you know like their beliefs and even within one culture you'll have different couples or different families they'll have their own set of ideals that they'll teach their kids so like my cousins were not raised the same way that i was you know they always like families usually have differing ideals but it felt like in the brave new world that that power that kind of narrative was just given over to the state or

maybe their city's controller and those people were responsible for the conditioning program so that also kind of um made sense as to why everyone sort of felt the same way and there weren't that many people like doing the different things because we say that they had free will but you don't see a lot of people going against the grain like bernard when he tried to do something they would there was never like a threat you're getting iceland right yeah yeah [Laughter] he also says that um at the end like um

i used to be a good scientist and i wanted to do my own science but i knew that if i pursued the truth in the way that i wanted to then i would get sent to the island and what good would that do me so yeah and and you're right and they say that he said so what did you do he says i gave up my happiness if you have to face the repercussions of going against the state then you don't have free will even if you're conditioned to it even if it's your conditioning and once you decide that okay i don't want to do this and if you face repercussions for it then you don't have free will then but one could argue that what if what if we

are just programmed to think this way and thereby we think we have free will but we're just programmed to think in this very way so we're just acting out a program too yeah but if we are acting out a program too what uh what benefit would it give the person who is manipulating us if we think that yes we can go against the rules and we shouldn't be punished for it so the person who has put this in our mind what benefit will he get no not the person but let's say our brains are designed already to in with this like we are already conditioned in a certain like we have uh

like we don't actually have free will but we have the illusion of free will and therefore we think we have free will we just wouldn't know because we would be you see like we couldn't think outside the illusion because that's all we'd know i'm just because nowadays some some in fact many scientists strangely are i don't agree with this but many of them have really leaned across to a very hard determinism in saying that we are we have no free will and everything we do is already um the brain is doing it

and the brain has been somehow programmed to do all of these things but consciousness it happens so quickly with it that we think that so as the brain does it our consciousness to make that choice comes let's say it comes a tiny nanosecond later but it comes with it so fast that we think we made the choice so a lot of them there's a lot of experiments i'm not a lot but there's a few experiments where this is uh the the claim by some scientists that we so they've tested people that um you know they've had these kind of uh

implants into the brain and they would have to pick a switch but the or they'd have to pick a color or something but the controller can see that the brain would react before the person would make the choice and the person would mostly make the choice that the brain would react to so so what they were arguing was that hmm so is the person making his conscious choice after the brain has already made its decision and he's just having the illusion because it's happening so in such tiny nanoseconds together that they

feel that no i did it because i made the choice but if there are like two buttons like if there are two buttons there's a red button and then there's a green button yeah this is it and i want to press the red button yeah so exactly wouldn't it be natural that my brain will think first we'll choose the red button first maybe i uh what makes sketch use the red button so what

maybe as a human my first color preference is i like the color red i like it a lot so whenever i see so just before i could make a choice which button to choose that button caught my eye and i was like oh red and my brain is like oh yeah that's the that's the one so that that's a different difference so even even that as a subtopic is a diagram like what a scope scope said that even thinking i like the color red in itself could be a conditioning which or yeah like evolutionary scientists will often get red um because like when we were um like

back in the stone age and stuff it was if you way before they say they say when this is in the creature you see right yeah so they say that it indicates that fruit is ripe um this is why they say often about women and red dresses because they say that that's the psychological evolutionary element now but people saying i have a favorite color or i have a favorite thing or i like this it's interesting because at some point we may have been conditioned to like it but we what we just think oh well i like it

oh i think that i i actually would agree with you which is you know sort of how i mentioned how some people they don't believe that we have choice because we're the sum of everything that has happened up into this point for example in the event that somebody um has a traumatic experience with water every time they come in contact with a body of water their body's going to have that response whether or not it's um you know something to have a response about but cts i will say that there is the um

this is where i think choice comes into play because while we may have this automatic response as you're speaking of this is where i believe um conscious because you know we're only we're only working with like you know 10 and the rest is just you know out here so once that happens we can actually you know make the choice to con quote-unquote condition ourselves differently through those particular situations okay no absolutely i'm just saying it's you see it's interesting because i um because what huxley's arguing i totally

agree um you know what uh you got in fact i was it a scope were you saying or li that um that this is so different from nature that this is the state is so artificial it's an it's this almost robotic entity that is is clearly distinctly man-made it's clearly yeah very clearly man-made but what's interesting is paradoxically you see this is the interesting paradox that in many ways it is

very animal-like because animals too just you don't get a rabbit trying to aspire to be a lion you don't get a you see they just stay within this their lane and they kind of dna genetic remit and they just fulfill that on instinct and they don't have kind of these different goals in life and they just do so i mean paradoxically this huxley's brave new world is in many ways also just a resembling nature you know it's

it's it's shocking because you're right it's so artificial on one hand this state but on the other hand it's like well it's actually very too animal-like i don't know why but but they have been turned into animal like through artificial means yeah and the book has a quote it says swallowing half an hour before closing time that second dose of soma had raised a quite impenetrable wall between the actual universe and their mind so when you said like you know rabbit is acting instinctual it's like my first response

is okay so what is the instinct of the human and how is it differing that they have to as you mentioned um create this artificial instinct within them that's that's a what do you think's safe what's the what's this uh the instinct of the human is it to aspire to something like this because one could say isn't all we want is the pursuit of happiness so why bother this

let's say this gentleman or this lady if even if they are epsilons or they are deltas and they just they have no aspirin but they're happy so from my experience so you know luckily i was born in a good family right and i went into a phase where i was happy uncomfortable but at the same time very bored because there was no growth in my life okay and uh you know all i did is like because you know i have all the necessities so i can just like eat sleep and work you know whatever easy job i can get and just get my necessities and i'm done and i'm happy

but as time goes on i felt very stagnant and very um i don't know i feel like you know when let's say your favorite food is sushi and you eat it every day it just becomes boring desensitized yeah yes so my life standard it was just becoming boring and you know what if you what but what if you didn't have that yearning and you didn't you didn't get desensitized uh so you just you see because you're saying let's say all my necessities and and let's let's extend it not just necessities let's say luxuries are being

met right right convenience yeah so let's say in this food health uh intimate pleasures all of these things that the creature comforts are being melt comfortably but you in this scenario you said but i had a yearning a kind of a deep you know within yearning but let's say that yearning didn't happen because you could take a pill and now with this pill you like you could take soma and you are just always happy and yeah if that's the that's the case then yeah i would absolutely agree with you that is pretty much what's happening

yeah in the book pretty much no i totally agree with you and i think like i feel like you know fitting in into your group also plays a role in just being who you are like although like you know you can you can be you can live in a society where they violate monkeys your conscience would say don't do that that's wrong but since you know you're living your family are doing it your dad and your mom are doing it you just go by the flow to get their you know approval approval right and i feel like you know in society we have that uh people are just going for their approval of their superiors

whether it's their mom or your dad their dad and that's also stagnant growth but if you're absolutely right if i would take a soma that kind of you know kills off growth and just makes it not does it kill off growth it kills off the yearning for growth but but it also gives you a happiness so you are happy let's say happiness is a particular measure and 10 is the maximum ceiling of happiness so you take some as they do in this brave new world and you are now just happy you are number 10 that's you so is would you see imagine convincing

these people that wake up from this but wake up to what to just misery to struggle to yeah you know like they say mustafa mon says to john the savage he says what freedom for what freedom to be ill freedom for disease freedom for you know is this is this what what freedoms are you speaking of no no you're absolutely right right like if that was the case that's why i like uh mustafa was my favorite character because he understood you know what like he understood the pain you have to go through to love and to have a passion and intimacy and all

that so he kind of kills those off and just kind of stabilize the country or like the people the civilization with soma and that's why i like them a lot but in in the real world that doesn't have like we don't have the soma i believe let's let's say we found out that we were in a matrix yeah now like in the movie matrix because this in many ways is like the movie matrix except in the matrix some people have woken up and they are the main characters so in the matrix people can live in the world this world and you can even though it's not as not

everybody's happy in the matrix but still they're living in a normal world and they could have some added features like you're a special vip and you know you have money and uh would you want to wake up from the matrix as in the movie because that's the whole argument of the agent smiths and these people no no i wouldn't i mean i i actually believe heaven would be the same thing like we'll be happy forever there will be no death there is no pain or is not all of that there would be luxury there would be whatever would you so but in this yes so but that's a different that's a whole religious discussion but let's say the matrix if you were in a matrix and you're

asleep because in the matrix they're asleep except they're living in their mind in the real in this world but it's a matrix world but some of them know that this is not real why don't we wake up but if they wake up they're just in this miserable ship and life's just what the hell is this life so would you rather just stay asleep or would you rather wake up i would personally um if i don't have the urge for growth and everything was you know yeah almost you wouldn't no you would if you no you would if you wake up you would have the urge you'd be your normal self um

or you could be in the matrix because in the matrix let's say you've got some added features you still would have some yearnings but but you could you could rig the system so let's say they put you in the matrix where you are a a millionaire and you're a pop star celebrity or you're a so you've got money status this this you know so you've got yeah eventually that gets boring because that's how humans are designed right like eventually things get more boring like you know i remember once going on vacation i remember it was in the caribbean or something like that and

after four or five days we couldn't wait to get go back home like on the first day of the vacation we were hyped and left so we're gonna try this we're gonna try that what did you have to what did you have going on at home that's what we want to ask everybody no we just wanted to go back home we're just like oh this is just like yeah we had too much fun we get it we want to go back to the normal light so that's that kind of inspiration i don't know how to explain it but no no i understand i understand that yeah i want people like yeah what about what about you guys what would you what would you say um fazila would you want to wake up out of the matrix or would you rather stay asleep in the matrix and

i don't know if you've watched have you guys watched the movie matrix if you were in this world let's say you are in huxley's world and you have the ability to be deconditioned let's say they can decondition they've got a upper they've got the apparatus they can put you through it and remember these people they still have intelligence they're not they're not robots so if somebody explained to you look if you go through this machine and we're going to turn you back to have your free will let's say and be deconditioned would you knowing okay this is what the condition

is free will or i could stay in as i am in huxley's world as an alpha beta or epsilon or whatever would you make the switch yeah that depends on which social class i am because if suddenly i get the free will i'm gonna feel miserable among these people and i would be like no i want to be an alpha now so that would actually make me miserable but if i'm in the higher part of the society where i'm getting everything i want then i wouldn't make the switch yeah but you see even the low people are still happy they're very happy like so the epsilons don't want to be betas but

i am low but i am low but i have been de-conditioned so now i want to be high okay so oh if you get deconditioned okay yes that's interesting because you see that argument then is still very utilitarian it's still very as long as i have my utilities which is what the the brave new world already offers it offers utilities it offers like because you see if you said because what in essence i agree with you people would say look i don't mind that but i want a better seat i want a vip seat i don't want to

be just some pleb or a peasant i want to be someone that's doing it but then which makes sense because you want money you want let's say uh you want luxuries you want status you want comfort you want you know human beings humans want these things but here without realizing it they've already got it in their wrong way everyone is for everyone and you've already got comforts and you've already got the state taking care of you and you've got food and you've got you don't get ill and you don't get i'm just saying it's a honestly i wouldn't i would not i would

i mean a community of people if there's a community of de-conditioned people so we can join them but if i but if i'm the only one alone and if they are if they're ostracized and if they're like killed if they're like selectively found and they're like oh yeah we're going to kill you because you have been deconditioned so it will so you know we should think of our lives first no i don't think they would i don't think they would kill them because in here in brave new world like john the savage they flew to iceland iceland it's called die there in the end like it doesn't have to be icelandic

they had the the malpais which were the the other savages but they also he chooses in the end to just go off towards that little you know to up beyond portsmouth that little lighthouse where he just lives on his own he wants to live as a hermit and he just wants to he thinks that will somehow be okay but obviously human beings are social creatures it's very yeah interesting that even when they showed savages the savages also weren't very intellectual people themselves yeah they weren't

they weren't developed they were very yeah you know huxley actually says he just closed the dark side of everything yeah he says you know huxley says this that he says that he regrets uh after his book brave new world because he's got another section uh another kind of it's it's not really a book but it's it's made as a book it's his essays called brave new world revisited so decades later he he writes about it again and he says that i wish i'd made a third path for john the savage because you see he has either he lives because

the way he makes it is you either live in this world which he can't fit into he's not conditioned uh brave new world or you go the you know with the malpais and those savages and they're not very and and then he he feels that okay the only other part that makes sense for him was isolation so huxley gives him civilization or isolation solitude and really huxley himself writes that i i wish i'd made a third part because this ends on a very it ends on a very dark note i mean with john the savage killing himself

and it i just did you guys clock that by the way at the end that he's killed himself when he yeah yeah because because his lover died or something like that no so what it is is that he he's on this island and he's become incredibly popular he's this uh icon which like as in his iconic sorry as in he's he's a he's an amusement for people people go oh my god john the savage he's like a creature at the zoo following him and bothering him so he's some kind of animal like an exotic animal and so what it is they he you see the interesting thing is huxley

he contrasts this um this uh civilization kind of conditioned frenzy with religious frenzy because john john the baptist john the savage not john the baptist john the savage is very religious in his way he he prays to you know to jesus to all different uh these spirits and and he always carries guilt so he feels really horrible about he associates pleasures especially sexual pleasures

with hurt because of his mom how he saw his mom in amongst the savages and and he thinks and he found it humiliating that his his mother would be with all these men and he associates it with all this guilt and hatred contempt for it and his mum in the end taking some until she dies it's for him it's like and he when he resorts to this island see one of the things he does is that self-flagellation he whips himself to you know to get rid of desires every time he feels desires and and we have that in the christian tradition and maybe other traditions as well this self-flagellation

and he whips even lenina when she comes because he's just in this frenzy because he can't take the fact that he still has this desire because he is human he has these desires but and and then when he just they all take some and they turn it into you know they say orgy porgy and they turn it into the orgy of atonement and and when he wakes up in the morning and realizes he had been a part of this he had also just done what you know this very thing that he used to always be very puritan about that oh this is disgusting you guys can have these kind of promiscuous

uh sexual orgies and you have all this lifestyle but he was a part of it and he took soma you know the very thing which he was always trying to and then in the end it when they come to find him and it shows that he's they just find his feet hanging and and they're turning gradually um they're going round and round and that's because he's killed himself and it's a very uh dark end and and huxley felt that it was very dark and i think later on he kind of regretted making it too dark well yeah that's why i didn't like john the savage because he practiced a lot of

uh a destructive yes religiosity it was self-harming yeah it's so common which he doesn't benefit him in the long run it just destructive right it's like what's the word messages or and i feel like that's destructive pain it does nothing good to you and that's why i didn't like john the savage yeah i mean he definitely has that um even though they don't name the religion but he he his religious frenzy is is being shown on purpose by huxley to contrast it with the

you know the civilizational the systematized frenzy of trying to control everything you know we're gonna condition everything that we're gonna be in control that state but on the other side his version of god and this whole is not about himself is conditioned yeah he is actually that's true his condition in many ways like his his hatred his guilt all of this is a conditioning of his upbringing and his experiences can i i i'd actually like to go back to the interesting thing that that you said about having a third option and

i would like to if it's okay um read a section of the book of course and it starts okay so i'm going to read this section of the book and then i'm going to give third option okay so this is talking about john savage all alone outside the pueblo on the bare plain of the mesa the rock was like bleached bones in the moonlight down in the valley the coyotes were howling at the moon the bruises hurt him the cuts were still bleeding but it was not for pain that he

saw it was because he was all alone because he had been driven out alone into this skeleton world of rocks and moonlight at the edge of the precipice he sat down the moon was behind him he looked down into the black shadow of the mesa into the black shadow of death he had only to take one step one little jump he held out his right hand in the light from the cut on his wrist the blood was still oozing every few seconds a drop fell dark almost colorless in the dead light drop drop drop tomorrow

and tomorrow and tomorrow he had discovered time and death and god alone always alone the young man was saying the words awoke a plantative echoed in bernard's mind alone alone so am i he said on a gush of confidence terribly alone are you john look surprise i thought that in the other place i mean linda always said that nobody was ever alone there bernard blushed uncomfortably you see he said mumbling and with averted eyes i'm rather different from most people i suppose

yes that's just it the young man nodded if one's different one's bound to be lonely and to me this is where the third choice comes into play i even maybe the author himself would have had some sort of i don't know maturation and growth in his life because the third option for being different and being alone is that at this point you know i don't and at least in the at least in our experience when we are in those moments and we go inward in our most

alone times in our most times when we've been driven out or totally different don't have anyone else this is often where we find our most peace but it's interesting be bit because of the society that they lived in and the conditioning to be alone in this state is you know one of the most you know utterly despised things that could happen but since john was of the savages and he wasn't totally conditioned in that way then the third choice could have been for him to um you know take that path inward and to have had a um

more contented happier ending unfortunately you know he had the ending that he did wow no ver i that's some very insightful words and i i agree it's uh it is very um it's it's strange and difficult as well because it's like what the question is what are um humans striving for they are ultimately striving for a kind of utopia ultimately one could say even in the religious sense it's in the afterlife

but many many religions would say the kingdom of god will be on earth and there's many religions whether it's going to be in fact many messianic that that's the vision because there's going to be just pure peace there's going to be pure bliss no poverty everything humans strive for a utopia and also humans strive for this happiness you know a uh they want to this pursuit of happiness and it does raise some very because because one could say well

humans don't seem to know what they want because because with you see for the so for example the for the yearning to grow for for the for the very yearning in and of itself they must be angst because yearning is an angst it's a turbulence within it's a kind of suffering almost so but that's the very thing that humans don't want but ironically they they they want because they can't be growth without that angst without that yearning

and and then if there is growth most humans won't do it like we said earlier on um uh scorp you're mentioning it say for mentioning that look i don't think most people have these high aspirations and most people just wanna so from imagine an alien looking down they would think well humans don't seem to know what they want you know it's like they seem to want a utopia they seem to just want happiness but if you say well here's a way that you could just always be happy like in huxley's world it's all taking care of you you never get ill you take this selma you stay happy then they say no no

no we want this we want this struggle to grow and you think well hmm but then yeah everyone is different like people want to live they want to get approved right like they want to marry within their culture you know eat the same food with their family you know same bloodline same heritage same rank all of that and they just do it for like they're just following the way like following the flow of and being accepted no one wants to be isolated or rejected do you think that's actually accepted or that's just the natural surrounding for example well i guess it's i guess it's i guess because

like so for example if you but if you were in china you just eat chinese food it's not uh it's not that you're not doing it to be accepted you're just everybody eats the food so you just eat it as well you are just one of everybody there you know that's true but because since we are born like with a mom and a dad we want their approval so when we're an adult we might give up growth just for their approval and just follow their culture and you know inherit their way of life all even though it's destructive like let's say you had to plug yourself every thursday night you know people would do it just for the sake of approval right

in the community to fit in that's what bernard was trying to do he was trying to fit in and every time he do something wrong he'll say iceland he's like no no no and he would try to you know get their approval now you feel sometimes bernard was a bit of just a more more you know hearty as opposed to because his friend helmholtz he seems to be a bit more of a stable character because they both go off in the end to the falklands but they are yeah he said bernard is this kind of rebel but but he seems to be this kind of almost a wannabe rebel but not an actual rebel because every time because bernard was still young he was like 25 years old

while his friend was like 50 right so there was an inch difference experience that's true you know what i think is that you know you're talking about um you know wanting to make a good impression or wanting to have this type of connection and wanting to have this type of connection you know if i if i look at you know like what is the root of that feeling that you know one may be seeking and to me uh the the word that comes to mind is meaning they're searching for

meaning meaning yeah they're searching for meaning in their life and whereas in this and so how in our world we find meaning is and how we understand things is by their pair or by their opposite and so in this book even there is a quote i was trying to find it but i haven't made my way to it but um uh mustafa he basically says that you know god's form yeah that's a beautiful quote where they ask him that is god so god

was in all so is god still present manifest himself with us and he says yes and he's that's the quote he says how does he manifest himself says manifests himself through his absence and that was a very powerful quote yeah and to me it's like okay so are we then taking out the meaning of life and i i found myself you know after reading this book wondering it's like you know if you if if humanity is created in this way that it's just completely utilitarianism then what is the meaning and what is the purpose and why are they even continuing

on with human existence because for us right we strive we continue we push we you know plunge forward because we're we're like i'm gonna i'm i'm gonna this i'm gonna feel like this this is gonna happen we're seeking that meaning whereas where is their meaning one could say though uh that let's say if life as it is you know in the real world as opposed to let's say huxley's world life here does have these aspirations and this search for meaning but we also acknowledge

that many people one may say in today's world maybe even the majority but many uh i mean dear we say majority but many people will fail to fulfill will fail fulfillment for themselves in in meaning it doesn't have to be fulfillment as in becoming a an entrepreneur or a millionaire or they just fail themselves now in that sense if we were looking at the you know the greater good for society you know the most good for the most people uh the greatest good for the greatest

number of people in that sense this this yearning going by numbers for most people is is a losing game because it doesn't they don't like the the artists the creative people those who self-actualize those who kind of find contentment of heart and peace of mind often are not the many they they are often people on a path you know they are a minority of people and yet everybody experiences the

yearning like they feel the restlessness but they just they might drown themselves in drugs they might drown themselves in alcohol they might drown themselves in other things but just to numb that pain but they don't self-actualize they don't actually become the this better version of them so from an you know that let's say a non-human alien perspective i think some people don't believe that they can maybe conditions conditions yes exactly and sometimes i don't know you know i think for

example in our uh you know we're a product of the industrialization industrial age of you know you know the voices sorry just froze slightly oh my bad tying it back to the other book that we read um you know of money capitalizing yeah and it's um i think that you know because of those um i don't know just because of that type of growth

and we talked about it last time is that you know there there was sort of a um that we sort of forgotten this connection to that level of consciousness because you know people that live on the earth and and are in these types of civilizations you know they don't they generally don't feel that and so that's why i sort of still think that we're in a very um at least now very unique time a unique time that we can maybe not even in my lifetime but at least we can

set the stage for um growing that in people yeah no i no no i understand and i i i agree i think uh i do see the the paradox almost of the situation as well and but i agree with you that um we are in very fascinating incredible times i you know to to be alive i feel in many ways is a privilege in this time um that's my personal perspective maybe to other people they feel that now maybe this is a worse off time but

like you know it's it's and and and this book does portray it in very grim terms this utopia is really just a dystopia but um i feel when we try to put the finger on it exactly the closest we can get to really is as uh as as you'd said uh for zilla that it was maybe aspirations people just don't have aspirate because because if if breaking it down what is it that's actually wrong here apart from just the

you know the machinations the making it you know everything being automated and just industrialized yes another thing that is not here which is normally present which actually makes humanity tick is because let's say that the savages they had like they might have had aspirations actually maybe their aspiration was to the heavens that's why they were acting all weird and they were all oh okay um yes so another thing which is missing i think from both the savages and from this world this dystopian

world is that curiosity the human mind of exploration that's actually much better than aspiration i think curiosity yeah yeah to me like i sort of saw it as like humans innately have at least the way that i feel that like a need to search for the truth and to be free like to explore freedom and there was actually a quote um in the book i think mustafa aman says it that we um our ford himself did a great deal to shift the emphasis from truth and beauty to comfort and happiness yeah so i thought and then he goes on to explain

that doesn't he he says in the sentence after that he says yes mass production demanded the shift universal happiness keeps the wheels steadily turning truth and beauty can't yeah it does exploration that keeps humans going like they want to explore because he's saying look because he's saying truth and beauty as intrinsically important as they may seem but he says that if we replace them with happiness then happiness you see truth and beauty he says are kind of irrelevant because if we can just give people happiness and we can do that through

soma and through the conditioning he says uh he says what's the point of truth or beauty or knowledge when the anthrax bombs are popping all around you and that was when science first began to be controlled yeah because he's saying that truth and beauty is there but it doesn't solve because because this is obviously 600 years after ford but after his fordship but mankind are still there killing each other and they're still going through their suffering and so he's saying well you know if we can still be happy let's shift it to just happiness everybody

this pursuit of happiness and um it's i have to say it's it's actually that once you you know if you get beneath the surface it's a very complex equation that they are presenting in the book it's not at face value it may seem this is easy to just knock away but they are presenting things which even like we we we read this and we're not at ease with it and we don't agree but when we start putting our trying to put the finger on it we find that it's more complex because yeah because it doesn't seem human it doesn't seem human because that's what it tells

to learn to find out to be curious but they could say well what's the purpose of that like what does that they could say well that doesn't because the argument would be well that doesn't really achieve happiness it just it has a curiosity that doesn't achieve happiness but that's what makes us different from other animals so that's that's why it makes us feel a little uncomfortable because that's animals are curious as well to be fair animals are very curious yeah animals are curious but not as humans like humans obviously our capacity is intellectual so we can be curious

mathematically and in engineering [Music] and i would like to add that mustafa was kind of cheating because he was running the experiment on bernard if you guys noticed yeah yeah he was letting him like the his assistant was like hey can we pre-condition him back like put him back into the class to pre-condition him and he's like no no no no let him be but give me updates yeah so he was actually doing the curiosity thing yeah you're right he was and and mustafa man to be fair the other thing as well he had access to the other world say that again that's why that's why

mustafa moaned even though he's like the antagonist he seems the most human out of them yeah and huxley himself writes that his own personality he sees himself closest to mustafa mon because he's you're right he seems to be this antagonist in it this very super you know the conditioner strict and very cold almost but then you come to learn well actually he knew linda and he was he had this emotional bond with her and he had this deep curiosity of humans he has like he fits all the boxes of what we perceive as human that's why we uh just get gravitated towards his

character while others seem weird yeah yeah yeah yeah he had the poetry he had the books locked up in his yeah and he and you see the human thing that he says that oh we can break the rules if we make them so he's allowed to break the rules because he says well i have to read this to know what is bad for people so they can't right because he was regulating them you know he was like i don't want to say god but he was regulating them and he was he can trust himself to regulate people in a peaceful and happy happy way

without making them suffer like he did like you know in order to you to learn shakespeare or you know study shakespeare it takes a lot of intelligence i can't read shakespeare but if i ever did it's gonna go i'm gonna go through a lot of stress and struggle he saved people from that he just gave him the shortcut and he's like here's the happiness and he still does that his you know growth and aspiration and test stuff like that i feel like in a way his aspiration but he had them but he like left them right like he said he wanted to be a scientist he was like the ultimate utilitarian person who

saw that oh i can't live the life that i want to live so i'd rather have the power i think i i would feel did it with his natural will like he wasn't conditioned to it but he still did it i i would see him yeah i would see him as more than just utilitarian definitely utilitarian but also at a point he became this realist where he realizes if he if i want to follow science with this curiosity then i'm going to end up there in that island and so i'll just give it up like he you know he's between the devil and the deep blue sea that's like

and he just embraces this says yeah let's just embrace well he does tell bernard that it's like a promotion for him it's actually a good thing to go to the island right so i feel like he also wanted to go there but using his knowledge for good to regulate people but that's just my interpretation i could be wrong no not that there is no necessarily wrong and i think that is pretty much what he was he was definitely doing it's it is very fascinating i have to say i i did even though like even though mustafa mont is like a tyrant like a total tyrant and everything he is closest to a normal functioning human

being like out of all the characters yeah he seems the closest to to humans as we obviously as we understand them yeah like yeah like he's kind of hitler but he's still human and this is why huxley felt that that resembled him in many ways that uh that's interesting and you know huxley did actually have a a different book a follow-up book called the island which is which kind of rivals it actually does have

it's a more positive spin on um on this on humans and the search for this um you know a better world and all of this as opposed to in this case it's a utopia which is actually becoming a dystopia but that's kind of like the opposite he does in that so um yeah but it is i have to say somebody back then thinking of these things um i think did he write it in the 1930s or something he wrote it um it was in the 30s yeah he wrote it something like that and um you know it's

it still strikes strikes home in many ways that we haven't we're still yearning for this perfect world and uh we and now we're getting closer to technological you know back then obviously we're not making it the consumer culture has so much parallels with the real world right now exactly and the technological and the technique like don't mend it just end it people just want to consume that's that's a good one yeah that's and the um but even the the chemical world and

the technological world having this understanding that look we um you know let's just get certain things done artificial things let's get enhancements let's get a bit of what we covered in the last book with artificial intelligence that also shares a lot of parallels with our world you know oh he says oh we did we have a system for that you know oh we need this done yeah yeah we've got a system oh when they go through when they ask him about the well what do you do for the human adrenaline and he says oh yeah we have a a a monthly surrogate where we send them and it pumps their body with all this adrenaline and it balances everything out

and you know in many ways although we're not there but we are insane you know we've got these kind of supplements and this supplement and we take moving towards that direction like in a technological sense we are moving towards the direction but in an ideological sense we are not which is kind of weird because in the book the people they have this sense of community you know like everyone is for everybody everybody like we all are one everyone serves everyone but the parallels which are happening in the real world are not fueled by community rather they are fueled by individuals

like oh i am going to do what i want i am me i am free so in this world it reaches a level of promiscuousity like in the book like if we reach level of promiscuousity it won't be because of a community aspect rather it will be more of an individualistic aspect that it's my body i can do whatever i want yeah that's actually a very profound point i'm glad you made that that's really yeah that that that really kind of nails that that whole uh discourse that it's interesting the parallels we because in huxley's time because think about it he's writing this

about 90 years ago or almost 100 years ago is writing this you know there were no you know the world was a very different place so today moving forward we can see that we've actually moved in many ways in that direction but there isn't their ideals to be fair were still for the greater good for everyone they were this was like you're saying is community they weren't doing it to per it wasn't like mustafa man saying i'm doing this just for me he was saying well no i'm you know i'm a

controller i do this so everyone benefits and there's no stable relationships because everybody's for everybody it's plato's republic it's that whole thing of we and you're right it's in this day and age it's um it's very very individualistic societies do not think there are um certain cultures or like usually eastern cultures and stuff like that they will have like the interdependent um interdependent like relationships and they'll have more of a community you know yeah and also in a way i think this was

more um touched upon in money but how the economic policies also sort of um like influence what kind of um society it's going to be like in communist societies that's like the narrative they give like the ideal that this is for the greater good and everyone's going to be like kind of equal and everyone's going to be happy so they don't have like that kind of greed so i don't know if that sort of makes it yeah but the technological parallel which we are moving towards like for example consumerism even when people are

consuming they are consuming like you know that i want to be different that's why i want to buy this because i want to stand out stand out yeah i want to stand out i want you no if that is the by buying that don't you sort of just become the same like now you want the newest iphone but everyone has the iphone or you want them that is samsung no i think that everyone has it it's from me it's it's individualistic but in some sense it also isn't but it's very tiring to stand out all the time too like you always have to find something new like new content yeah so you're gonna get exhausted and depressed at the end of the day like wait this is not what i wanted

because it's more about to feel that i have control over my life but i also do feel that there is a very strong motto in the modern world of beats that stand out that make sure you you stand out from the crowd i think there is a strong emphasis on this and you're right it ironically paradoxically leads to everybody doing it which is then just the same thing because everybody tries to stand

[Laughter] wow wow oh that's it's amazing i i that's i i really um i'm glad we there was one more thing that i just remembered um in terms of like um saying that we're moving towards that kind of like the biological and technological feats there was actually i think it was four years ago maybe five years ago uh a researcher in china did a gene editing crispr and they made they went in he went hiv like it was a yes the baby there was a gene edited baby and

that um they were successful but you know like the china had to yeah he was just recently um like convicted or he just edited that baby because yeah had hiv so he gene edited the baby so that he wouldn't get hiv aids yeah so like that kind of um science is becoming possible and it was it was why was that why was that a problem that the baby was because um so so in like a lot of bioethics um like history yeah okay um if it goes wrong then who

then it wasn't more about in case of it wasn't really about um if it goes wrong so usually like you have to set a very strong precedent in these kinds of scientific research to make sure that that kind of research doesn't continue in a way yeah that now and also at the time i remember um there was a lot of there were a lot of american scientists concerned that because china didn't have the regulations to stop that that american babies and american science would be

sort of put on the back burner because china would have access to these designer babies and this super smart species kind of like what i think i think chinese are already super smart they already they already are that they made artificial fun they've made an artificial sun yeah exactly and wow they made an artificial sun that's that's what they claim i've read that yeah that they've made an artificial soil yeah like it's a reactor it's called a tokabak reactor so what they do they take plasma and they compress it like really really high like they compress it really really high so

so it reached the temperature of the sun only for a few milliseconds though but it's a big feed that it reached the temperature of the sun like they compressed and if they are very successful in it it can provide them electricity for like a decade and they they currently i was just reading uh day before yesterday the the announcement for they are setting up a uh a residential space station in on the moon the first to to put it in the moon i have a lunar resident of right okay is that that would be one one so no the actual not that the actual international they've called it the

international lunar residency something uh station residency that that's just not the shanghai not the shanghai so in this they've they've announced it alongside russia that basically what they're going to do is on the moon not in just the space or orbiting the earth but on the moon they're going to set up an entire compound which is called the international lunar residency uh station and it's gonna be just it's china's project and russia is with them and they did say that we in we welcome the international community to be a part

of us um and they were showing pictures of what it's potentially gonna look like and it's just this huge kind of complex with these kind of where i suppose people are gonna live because they're saying it's gonna have permanent residency on there not for not for citizens as tourism but they're gonna have always people up there doing stuff and what they're also looking for they said they're going to create this part of the project or the plan is a certain part of the moon to set up extensive solar panels for energy and um and that presumably is going to one it's gonna light up that space station but two they were also saying

somehow i don't know how this would work that energy could be used for earth they're gonna make water uh oh but i i don't know how that would work because how does the because i'm thinking why couldn't you just why do you need to put solar panels on the moon i'm sure you've got enough space on earth but maybe if you maybe if you've got a ridiculous amount of the sun because i mean the moon covered up taking solar panels to the moon that that cost just i gotta go but i just want to say it was truly enjoyable thank you so much

guys we're going to wrap up anyway we've been going on uh it's been thoroughly enjoyable and i have to say i've enjoyed not only this book but more so the discussion that we've had and i hope uh encourages other people to read as well so guys it's been awesome shukran for taking part fazila safe scorpio and lee's already gone those of you that are viewing this later on do if you want to read it check it out it's huxley's uh brave new world and epic book and we'll be back inshallah next month end of the month guys so shukran for taking your time out man absolutely

sugar and much love and take care of yourselves and we'll speak soon log off salam ali you