Imam Malik and Imam Shafii | Attraction vs Indulgence | Meetup with MD Farhan

uh MD Farhan must be Muhammad Farhan assalamu alaikum how are you different from India oh yeah from in India where are you joining I've opened this from where Andhra Pradesh

all right for joining us it's always a pleasure to have people from such diverse parts of the globe massages so talk to us here Farhan it is here so talk to us Farhan what's what's on your on your precious mind used to listen to a couple of Lucky Scholars we always used to say that they used to quote about that that looking at the woman is around even recorded

where he says that only one glass is okay and second glasses around that sorry I missed a bit one glass is okay then second glass say say that again sorry I used to listen to a lot of Scholars okay they used to say right but looking at how many um oh one glance I was right okay yeah yeah as I said one glass is okay but two glasses

a glass of glass no no no okay so okay so they're saying is colored and like even went to the extent that you should not even look at your teacher while she's explaining you should not look at the teacher while she's explaining that yeah exactly you're not talking to us what is your take on it yeah you see look to me look okay so first of all look I I understand so just to right so people

were saying this stuff let's first of all try to understand where they're trying to come from so they're trying to come from an angle of saying that look beware and and this thought mechanism of these is is rightly placed they're trying to say look beware the beware the glance of lust this is what they're trying to say yeah that you know don't indulge yourself in lustful um you know in the lustful gaze don't

indulge yourself in these things this is in at the root of it this is the message and that message is that message is rightly placed there's everybody would agree nobody would say that that message is wrong or a person should or that the lustful gaze is you know something to be uh everybody you know kind of like adorned and people recognize these things are you know that that they're not they're not good that they are a part of our insani almost fitra but they're not a nice side they're they're the

um the more best yield you know the more animal side of insan as opposed to the you know if you're to place in Sun in the middle of being raw an animal and insan is in the middle somewhere here and the the less ruhi side and the more animal animality the lust and the instincts and the uh the sexual drive and all of this stuff and greed and these things are not good to be kind of submerged in so everybody agrees and and this is where they're coming from this is where it's stemming from so just to

kind of explain that so they're not um this nasiha that they're giving isn't coming from somewhere alien it's coming from these from from a nice place but sometimes what happens is people can you see they step out of being natural I would say that look the these messages everybody understands or they should understand that this message of saying look just recognize like just just being aware that

certain things are not healthy now I'm not saying you're not going to do it we're all going to do it look greed is not healthy but you're going to be greedy I'm going to be greedy you know such bad like let's not let's not lie to ourselves we're going to be greedy and greed is is a necessary uh Force for the world to move because because I'm greedy I'm going to because I have some greed I'm going to try to start a new business I'm going to try to work hard to make more money you know I'm going to try to do you know we've

got this greed but it's but I recognize the important thing is understanding this is not healthy to become consumed by greed it's not healthy but it's a necessary component in in life it is there and it's and it's important because of it we we do certain things but we have to have checks and balances you know if I start indulging in greed if I start just ah yeah you know I need things I need so it's about becoming aware that look I will do these things in life you know I

I will of course I'm going to do that of course I'm going to be greedy of course I'm going to be these things but just having an awareness where yeah let's hope I don't transgress and I will transgress you know this is I will because my my greed by necessarily I will transgress at certain points so similarly look like lust you see it's it's a necessary component because without it no procreation would take place you know yes relationships would never happen people would not you know pursue

one another they would not people wouldn't have babies they wouldn't you know it's a necessary part of our instincts and you and I and we all are going to have this glance and it's going to happen at times whether we like it or not you know we're going to see something people will look but it's about trying to trying to where possible bring that awareness in that look you know that you we're going to look we're going to overstep people will always look they will always but where you can try to curb him

your thing just but you we we have to be natural the problem is sometimes some people go to a step we they in order to stop all of these they they put in a lot of extra steps that are very unnatural like or when I talk to you don't even look at you like look over there and then talk actually the same thing don't even look when he's partying to you and then you see but then what happens is you see the problem is sometimes one

okay you become very awkward right so you remove kind of situation of college then she then the management convinced that why what's wrong with you why you weren't looking at her and aren't you interested and she don't look so one is it gets very awkward two is it becomes very unnatural and it makes the other person equally uncomfortable you know there's a difference between look there's a difference between lust and

just looking and admiring even like look somebody looks at somebody and I think oh wow you know this person's very beautiful or this person's very handsome or this person's very oh well they might just think you know wow oh what they or you might even look at a car you might look at a thing an object even and think oh wow and there's a difference between that gazing look of lust you know where a person is like like they want to devour them with their eyes that look makes people very uncomfortable and people can tell like let's say right now we're talking let's

arguably we're talking about from the glance of men towards women let's say women can tell which look it is they can tell you know just the the kind of oh the the the the the appreciative look or the and the kind of lustful look it has a very horrible vibe to it that the other person can tell you know the eyes are the windows to a person's soul and you see when you look at them with that lust you you can make a person feel very uncomfortable

and that's not right making them feel but when you ignore a person and be very awkward you can equally make them feel very uncomfortable when you're talking to them because the person thinks yeah I'm trying to talk to you and you're making this unnecessarily awkward you're you're kind of looking like this and you're being all robotic and almost autistic when you're talking to me but you talk to other people oh normally and you talk so you're creating the same or like a different awkwardness like it's okay it's different but you so I would

say that if you can be natural you know in that my understanding is if a person this isn't forget my understanding read yourself you know read the literature read the uh the the time of the Prophet sallallahu sallam read people and the salaf read the time of the Salah of the sahaba I mean they seem to just be very normal they don't seem to this is how it appears maybe you know maybe I'm wrong and somebody could say well actually look you're wrong because of this but

I've not seen it as wrong this is how it appears that they seem to be very normal they seem to talk talk to each other they seem to um see each other they seem to mix with each other they seem to and yeah they seem to be a part and parcel of of the general Society uh this is very clear in the time of you know you'll get fatwas of Imam Malik saying uh oh uh people uh a man and his wife are sitting with another man and his wife and having dinner together they invite each other for dinner for as friends as friends not as family and they're obviously eating in front of

each other and they're doing all of the and they must be I mean if you're eating in front of each other what are you just because then you just tell them not to sit in this room you know if you're gonna be all awkward so I would say look just be natural As Natural as possible and try to just be aware not to make people uncomfortable look sometimes people may do because they may you know you may but try to become aware if you can and not the main thing is look it is not you know the the of Islam the adab of

Islam is not true it's it's wrong to make people uncomfortable and if you are making people uncomfortable you need to have checks and balances but otherwise just to be natural you talk to people they're a human being you don't look if you talk to someone people say oh if you talk to them you you might fancy them of course you may fancy them but that's a natural part like men and women you know they they will appreciate each other like they may think well oh oh she's very beautiful that person may think that it doesn't mean now that he thinks she's very beautiful he's gonna

pounce on her I mean if she's going to that that when does that happen so and you know you have this Hadith in Muslim that the cousin of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam father uh who uh foreign by this woman and it's the famous Hadith where the woman is uh she she says to the prophet that look she's interested in marrying the prophet she says would you be interested the Prophet salallahu this is the final year of the prophet

salallahu and he's he's not interested in in marrying but he's speaking to the woman and and everybody's there this is after the pilgrimage so this is at the pilgrimage sorry so fabul who's with the prophet salallahu and he's sitting in front of the Prophet the Hadith Muslim mentions that he is looking at this woman because he's Enchanted by her beauty and he's not just looking he's going up down up down he says he's taking his eyes up and down up and

down and and he looks at and then the prophet looks at him him and this is uncomfortable isn't it because look at this yard like you know the prophet's talking to him yeah and the prophet look the prophet kind of like because he's sitting in front of the Prophet The Prophet just slightly gently moves his face carries them and he looks back and then the prophet slightly moves his face again and then he looks back again and and the Prophet this time moves his face and then he says to him look he says behave and and he says to the prophet like what he says what what what

did I do and the prophet says nothing he says look I I saw a young man and a young one and I could basically I could sense that you know the the hot-blooded nurse and and I feared the shaytan and but the prophet never said to him what are you doing you know how dare you this is Haram how do you look at her and this is the prophet just said to him look like I I I and the prophet gently just said to him look this isn't appropriate but that's it not in a sense that's inside Muslim so it doesn't mean when people look at

someone and even if they like them that they pounce on them that doesn't happen so you know people say oh my God but if you like her you're gonna God knows what you're going to do no you know you need to I think we need to stop teaching people that just because they like someone that they may do something to them that that's that seldom happens in normal societies I'm just saying so people need to become more in charge of their own ego of their nafs they need to

have responsibility rather than you see rather than treating them like a child we can we can Empower them with responsibility that look this is look this is there is a fitra there is a harisa there's a you know we have that in us we're going to attraction but you know don't make people uncomfortable you know it's not and how does that make you feel you know how do you really like think about it if you really thought somebody was they fascinated you and you were attracted to them you wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable because then

they're definitely not going to like you because if a person thinks well you know this person so you'd rather Empower them with maturity then saying to them look you know don't even but this is with the you know when you said the salafi uh shook that you're listening to but this is where they're coming from where they're coming from is it is a correct understanding they're trying to say don't indulge the lustful gaze but they're going about it in a way

in saying well don't even look the other way is saying well look just be natural and if you find yourself doing certain things then you know just you have to refrain because you're making people uncomfortable so yeah I hope that uh helps Farhan but yeah oh right yeah

okay then why didn't we just follows that's awesome no don't say that again was Imam Shafi was the favorite student of of who foreign you know what that's that's not really true um you see these are just nice things that people say so 12.

because obviously Imam Shafi is a cute personality so people say you know and he studied with Imam Maliks and he was a student of Imam Malik so people say oh you know he was amongst his favorites he was you see Imam Imam he was it was just a little boy Imam Malik was an old man he wasn't really from his uh he came to him when he when Imam he came to him Imam Malik didn't even first accept him he said to him like oh wait like I haven't got time for little little kids and but because he bought a letter from someone special who

said look please accept him so then he allowed him to just read the mothball to him but Imam Malik's real students were like so if you take a look and if I'm sure I'm not sure uh I've read mixed reports how long did he spend with Imam Malik some people say maybe one year I think I've read somewhere maybe two years some I read somewhere I think even less maybe a few months but when you look at Imam Malik's actual student and this you have to remember Imam Malik is um because look Imam Shafer is born in 150 history

yeah 150 history Imam Malik passes away in 179. right at the age of like 93 or something or something like that so um he he's he's like very old when Imam Malik is in his 90s Imam Shafi is just in his 20s do you understand so when he came to Imam Malik he he didn't come in his twenties he came to Imam Malik I think in his early teens like he might have been maybe 14 or 15.

so Imam Malik is quite an old man by then obviously gone are the days Imam Malik was you know a strong young man and when he was obviously the you know the when he was going through all the big thing and so in that day and age you know Joshua Hiroshima there's many students of his that used to come with him from that time like if you look at um people like Abdullah qasim who was with him for 20 years or uh who was with him for 20 years or uh Abdullah was with him for 30 years

or people like all these people even his Medina students magician as with him his own nephews who like these people were really his his kind of people that he really hung out with he kind of talked to he even in his final years who he was with and um it I mean his relationship with Imam Shafi obviously was it was nice it was uh but Imam was he was he was too young when Imam Malik was there like he hadn't fully ripened then he went obviously

Imam Malik was still alive but he had gone he because he was only with him a little while and then he went off and to be fair I think prided himself as having been a student of Imam Malik he really um for very long he he would say like Malik but I think the the thing was that because Imam Malik's students didn't recognize Shafi um I think that may have been part of the reason part one of the reasons

amongst many that led Imam to kind of take a different path because rejection because he wasn't really um because you see when Imam sure he leaves Imam Malik he goes to Iraq I mean he travels he goes Yemen as well but he goes to Iraq and he studies with uh the great hanafies and there he continues

Muhammad he studies with Imam muhammadan and here he considers himself from the students of Malik he would say often sahibi and sahibukum on but then you see afterwards Imam Malik's passed away now and then Imam Shafi goes to Egypt and all of Malik's great students are in Egypt or a lot of not all but many of his and they dominate the scene and they don't really recognize Sheffield as even a student really of Malik because you know who is he compared to them so they think like

you know like these guys what is so this rivalry that he has because he has a lot of rivalry in Egypt with Malik students so ashhab for example whose Imam Malik student him and Asha were at loggerheads right up until in fact he claims that um you know I shab hated him maybe because you see the problem is you see then Imam you know sometimes you know like like let's say I let's say I reject you now like you come here with you know great hope

and then I I don't acknowledge you I kind of and rejection can mean like I don't show you any importance now you feel rejected then you see what happens sometimes that has a negative reaction then you see and imagine I say to you oh but you know this is now you see you might start questioning Imam Malik because maybe our Dynamics are not good so so Imam then starts turning against Imam Malik Egypt

people started asking how did Imam Ali think how did he walk like they were they wanted to know about Imam Malik foreign you see the truth is why would they like truth is why would they ask Imam sure how Imam Malik walked when when they've got his students who lived with him for decades why won't they ask him they were asking him they they were asking the others they weren't asking any of this

the truth is he doesn't get the um you know the respect that maybe he felt he he should have had and and they should have been I I do think they should have shown him more respect but they didn't and he felt that this was a sign of rejection so he started to say things like and he he did start saying oh you guys think that you know the world of Malik and he started to to dis Imam Malik in some things he started to say what is Imam Malik you know Imam late late is more knowledgeable than Malik you know he starts saying things like this and he wrote his book you know

in his um he starts doing against Imam Malik and so obviously you see to them he's a nobody because they're thinking well who are you and so then he starts to he has to kind of make his own way and this is why ash herb and these people really didn't like him and and he says you know he has this poem

that you know he says that they they wish that I die and if I die so what you know I'm not gonna die alone and that's he's talking about ashab and um and is before him I think but I think they both die in the same year 204 hijri and they buried actually quite very close by and you know in the in the end they say that uh it's actually they say Imam you arguably they say that he was uh he was beaten up by some malikis and then he died consequently because of that beating or something so you know

that he died by the beatings yes so I think because he he was beaten up by some of the Imam Malik students not the main students but some of the other ones and and then he became sick because of that beating and then eventually he died and that's obviously wrong all that stuff is they should never have happened it's it's wrong and stuff but this is the the thing you see the

I think they were all amazing people um I do think sometimes uh you know there was a bit of Seaside to it a bit of rajniti shall we say a bit of politics did creeping um I think Imam he loved Imam Malik and if he never set foot in Egypt he would have always loved Imam Malik like he said you know he said if the if you mention the scholars then Malik is the star you know yeah

but then you know when he went to Egypt and you know sometimes it happens because I have a problem with you then the people whatever you represent I start going against that because even though I don't have a problem with it but like let's say you love football or you love cricket and and I I don't mind Cricket but now I have a problem with you and you love Cricket so I start saying yeah well Cricket's dumb anyway you know just just to get at you so sometimes these things happen and and he his comments where he said about Imam Malik and you know he said well Imam

Malik was an old dad and you know I I feel those were just statements he said to get back at the people and even his book Imam Malik I think it's really just to get back at those people really because he he kind of felt that they didn't give him the importance they should have given him and it's but they were all great people you know they were all Imam sure he was an amazing individual he was very gifted very talented um they all were in their own ways and they've left a legacy for us that you know it's fun sometimes to learn about all of this and

but you know we should respect all of them in their own way I sometimes you know when I mention some of this stuff some people say oh my God you can't mention it because oh my God it's it's showing the you know they they could never have thought this about each other but sometimes people really wonder that we do have molecules in India you know yeah we hardly have any soccer and quality here I think you do in the south

it's been an absolute pleasure uh for having you on time inshallah speak soon much love people that was Muhammad Farhan all the way from India people were