Meeting Of Master Minds Sh Hamza Yusuf & Jordan Peterson | Mufti Abu Layth

right so people i did watch uh shere hamza youssef with jordan peterson much awaited people right so i got the impression that this podcast was done back then when it was announced this is the impression i got and it was only released now so i don't know why what that's about hmm why did um jordan peterson maybe it required certain editing i don't know

yeah i'd not been feeling too well shaking off a flu a man flew people so um i don't know if are we allowed to say manfred [Laughter] i don't know people cancel culture yeah i have to say this is so this yes let's focus get back on track um yeah i saw i watched the discussion i'm glad they changed the title by the way

because the first title i saw it just again today and the title was changed to something like what we can learn from the quran or something like this which was a much more apt and suitable title um the one before something like a catholic's conversion to islam after a near-death experience or something was yeah that was um it didn't it was a bit enough and didn't really do it justice but the discussion was uh yeah it was um i i thoroughly enjoyed it there were

certain parts i felt that it you know there were things i wish it went into more and there were certain parts that were that it did cover uh with some depth uh it was the first time i heard i heard um yusuf speak about his conversion um or the kind of landscape leading to his conversion his near-death experience i i'd never heard of um i don't know if he has mentioned it before but it was the first time i heard that story

also um quite some detail about sheikh hamza yusuf's kind of family background i didn't realize his uh he mentioned he spoke a bit about his mother the role of his mother his father his father having converted to islam and and just some detail about them and how they have added value to his journey and so it was that was definitely something very intimate very personal

he spoke about them and passing away and both his mother and father passing away and uh how he was there for it so that was something very um um personal and intimate once again so it was very i mean for me because i had not i'd not watched that before so some maybe some of you had heard of that before but i hadn't so that was very revelatory um [Music] yeah and then she sheikh hamza yusuf has always is just so his breadth of knowledge is so

vast you know just the the kind of net he casts out this so that was uh so refreshing and um captivating he spoke of several people the reasons on what led them to islam um i did think that on the flip side uh the discussion was dominated to a certain degree by this the whole conversion aspect

which i guess then it's it's it's a kind of cost expense of the talk because the time of the talk is naturally limited it then disallowed the talk to um to spread into other topics of faith that could be you know there's so many topics on faith and it would have been so fascinating to hear how do these both thinkers tackle these things you know from topics like i mean just very

it's just so many from atheism to the problem of evil to religion in the world today i think at one point jordan peterson tried to bring in evolution and say well how do you reconcile that and and that was um hamza yusuf sheikh hamza yusuf didn't really uh tackle it he i mean he says well guided evolution and then he says well i believe like and he gives reference to a certain particular poem and he says you can find it on you can google it so discussions like that could have been

also very fruitful so i think on one hand because the whole topic or one of the topic of hamza yusuf's conversion to islam became such a dominating theme that it took up most of the discussion or you know and thereby disallowed the opportunity for other important themes and topics

so so that's um i guess on on the flip side i did think some of the talk um some of the talk felt like it was um somewhat um speech as in um no obviously if i say speech it doesn't make sense but somewhat um lecture-like so it seemed as if there were certain

parts where shaykh hamza yusuf was and it was amazing and elegant and you know and eloquent and once again very enriching but it felt like sheikh hamza yusuf would go into a um like he would drift into almost like a lecture like like a sermon like uh segment where he would speak about the wonders of uh of whatever the point of discussion was

and he would do that for a little while and then jordan peterson would kind of chime in say something and then he would go off on another and and although that that is unquestionably um captivating but i felt what it took away then was the interaction because this there's something about a conversation that it i felt it didn't have um i mean it was a beautiful interaction and it was a very harmonious um [Music]

interaction which which is definitely amazing in its own way but it didn't seem like this is to me it didn't seem like a conversation it seemed um more like hmm just uh just orating a particular point and just speaking and then being asked another question and then just responding to that and so um so there was so there was definitely a harmony and

there was an amazing um interaction but it wasn't quite like natural speak so um i felt that where's what you might see on for example joe rogue with joe rogan you get a lot of that natural interaction so you see the person um it just i don't i don't know i just felt this was a point that i felt it didn't have that not to detract from it it was still amazing um so but i'm trying to just

share my evaluation of it god my throat other than that i i do i i really appreciated the way sheikh hamza yusuf um firmly asserted

his faith he wasn't um he wasn't kind of uh shy about it and that was quite refreshing to see so if i so there's a point where um there's a point i mean there's several points but on one occasion where jordan peterson is speaking about how islam can be complicated and how it's difficult trying to grasp another culture but sheikh hamza use of um not in a uh in an uncouth way but he

he kind of pushes back on that and he asserts that actually no you know for an intelligent person islam is actually very simple and then jordan peterson says well why don't you explain it to me and says i'd love to and he explains it and i thought well that's uh you know that was definitely something very admirable another thing is where jordan another example coming to mind is jordan peterson uh mentions at a particular point about um he says well you see you in one way of looking at god is like a hierarchy of values and

and ultimately you have an ineffable value which is god and so sheikh hamza yusuf he he he he responds to that by saying look we uh let's be clear you know we don't believe in god is a value god is not of value he's got and and when he says that jordan peterson then says of course of course no i don't mean to reduce god to a value this is why i stressed ineffability which is you know that you can't um describe in words so

that i thought that was very admirable that the way sheikh hamza stepped back and asserted his point in saying well as opposed to just letting it just flow which he could have but and because that's him you know jordan peterson speaking about his own perspective but he says look no and also the part where uh i mean these are certain points coming to my mind that are like striking features there was a point in the discussion where jordan peterson mentions that um he says well i don't understand how muslims um come about the

topic of christ because he says well you know you've got the you've got judaism and then you've got christianity which then asserts uh the divinity of christ and then how do muslims come back from that and how do they reconcile you know they say well jesus is still central to islam but he's not divine and so on and sheikh hamza yusuf actually answers that very well he says uh he says no he says well look he says well according to most jews christ was a charlatan

so and according to the best of them he says well he was just a rabbi but according to most of them he was a fraud so and he and he really puts it out into perspective that well actually when you're looking at it that you've got going from that angle to this extreme peak of divinity divination and then you've got muslims who have venerating jesus so it's not actually it's it's actually very logical and very rational

so that once again i mean there were so many uh amazing features about the discussion i do wish in certain ways if it could grapple with other topics as well that topic because it seemed to you see to me on the on the flip side because if i had to let's say if i had to critique not to criticize but to critique certain aspects i would feel that the topic was very dominated with a very christian talk so which is fine because i get it because jordan peterson is a christian and all

many of his following i mean i'm sure many of his followers are christian or although i'm sure not most of them but still many amongst them and so we had a lot of this christian and christ talk to find maybe that common ground maybe what they were trying to do was bridge i mean that is what they were trying to do they say in the end we were trying to bridge build bridges but there was um there wasn't much talk of the the challenges of

let's say atheism or disbelief um you know in the in the face of sorry atheism that both whether it's christianity or islam that believers find whether it's going to be the discussion of free will whether it's going to be the discussion of the problem of evil whether it's going to be the discussion of um i don't know other things that people common militant atheists may have problems they may have um that would have been very um interesting but i get it that would be also very difficult there was a point

where they spoke about consciousness that that was good that was interesting youssef did say explain he spoke briefly about the neural correlates of consciousness so to me overall i definitely enjoyed it um thoroughly enjoyable so much to learn from it i'll probably give it something like um you know maybe like an eight eight point five out of ten um yeah maybe like an eight or an eight point five out of ten which is which is

definitely fantastic it's just the the discussion on the christ like talk or the christ topic or the christ theme just seemed very dominating throughout the whole thing and i get it that may have been uh that you know propulsive and maybe that's why what jordan peterson wanted from the discussion but i just feel that um i don't i as a person you know as a keen ardent fan of both of them i would have uh just wanted so many of the topics

discussed which inshallah maybe in the future um they would they would do um but but i'm not saying this in any i'm not trying to be um you know negative this i'm not saying that in a negative way i'm saying it in a way just uh my appraisal of it what i saw of it and in some ways you i just felt that it it i don't i don't know you know sometimes you you you look so looking forward to something and when it happens it is amazing but then maybe

maybe the realism of it just doesn't it's like hmm like something's not like i said maybe it was the fact that that conversation spirit that it didn't feel like a conversation for some reason to me i don't know why that is and i don't know whether that was just me and or if other people felt that it felt a bit like an interview but not much there so maybe that's why yeah so that's just my trying to find some you know my appraisal of it so yeah but overall amazing if you haven't watched

it you have to watch it i'm sure it must be uh you know one of it's definitely has to be the best so far uh talk that uh jordan peterson has had with any muslim so you have to watch it and it is a meeting of you know the titans really these these people this is like it's it's like in many way that wrestlemania 6.

you know for the old-timers those old souls like me that remember from the childhood days when it was hulk hogan and an ultimate warrior it was like wrestlemania 6. it was like whoa what's what's going on here so and even wrestlemania 6 is exactly it's like there is such a hype and then when it is it's like there's something missing here but yeah so people that's my thoughts on it but if you haven't watched it do check it out and i hope they have many more of this uh to come yeah

another point i was going to say is i did feel that that it was a bit harsh on the the leftists against the the left and i agree on the fact that you have the uh you know like the militant left i agree with that i mean as in because that in a way that the militant side of any side is always um you know it's not it's it's basically just streaks of

fascism on either end but they did seem this era of uh just you know just there were certain points where they just dissed people just for having like left his thought and um and and there was this thing of uh i don't know why they feel you see i'm not a marxist and i'm i mean i'd say socially socialist isn't every isn't the uk just socialist so socialist just means that you look out for people as in they

should be public welfare so i yes i'm definitely socialist and uh and i would agree with that but i'm also very capitalist in believing that people should make money and they should you know they should be opportunities to always make money um but i don't understand the there's this era of almost contempt or of hatred towards uh like marxism and stuff like this held as is demonized so i don't understand that i'm not a marxist and to be honest i wouldn't really want to

live in a marxist world i definitely an ethical capitalist world would would do fine as long as it has socialist values of a wealthy system pretty much like the uk i would say but i don't know what boris johnson's doing to it right now but yeah so but in the discussion there were a few occasions and i've noticed this in other discussions as well where sheikhams both sheikh hamza yusuf and jordan peterson seem to really demonize like the demon incarnate is marxism

so i don't know what that's about a good friend of mine momo he seems to be really passionate these days about marxism i'll have to get him one of these days on mind trap to understand what's the i don't know what the hype is about marxism but i don't know what the the i don't i don't understand the evil thing either so to me it's i get it it's a bit too idealistic and i couldn't really see in a real world scenario but i don't see the evil evil thing about if you see my point i just see as a failed uh

idealism that's all but yeah so so that's another little point i did see a few jabs there as oh my god then we would just have a marxist world and what the hell would that and i thought whoa whoa whoa i thought you know so yeah that's my thoughts on it people

so jay jordan peterson is right wing i don't think his right wing as in he's definitely not far right but i think he's here right aligned yeah i don't get that part but i think there's this thing about um and i do sense this from uh sheikh hamza yusuf as well they seem to i i think it's more an american thing that they feel that um

traditional conservative values of the western world are somehow the default position of um you know of of the standard of of ideal living hmm i i don't know where that's from because that doesn't i mean i'm not against the the you know the the traditional conservative values of the west but it's not the i'd i mean i

don't know about idealizing them either i mean sure you know it's like anything you know it comes it goes so i think they they seem very anti uh anything that questions you know so they they seem to be very anti-liberalism which i don't understand either because what why and then i think we have a difference in mustala because i think we use the words differently so so everybody in europe and in the uk liberal is a good word liberal here means people who speak up for rights and speak up for and i think

in america they use it to mean some you know somebody some something else so it's it's very there's a difference in muslim it's all terminology people it's all terminology yeah west doubles uh somebody said jordan peterson comes off as a person with a lot of fear right and i'm not okay could be could be i'm not sure what that means is must be left or right i don't know i would think i'm uh i don't know i would you see to some

people it's interesting because i some people think i'm more on on some see i think it's difficult placing someone all the way because on some things when some of my mates say oh mufi you you sound just like these these the right on someone you know it's some of my mates say as a joke oh but but yeah but in so in some things i get it that yeah would be oh but isn't that all of us that in certain things it's difficult placing people but i would have thought i would be center-left left

if anything because i would support freedoms and i support people's rights and i support and i believe in less authority to the state and more freedoms to people that's what i believe in but um but then i don't know because then when people say all these things like 100 pronouns and and in all of this i disagree like i i just i so in that stuff i agree with you know things should just be as they are you know i don't believe in just because you identify as 100 different pronouns that people have to call you different

and they have to memorize all these things and so this is why i think maybe on that discussion my mates have said oh i don't know but to me that's just common sense it's not like i'm not against people's their own things but imposing it on other people and and i and and i do strongly disagree with this whole council culture thing which is just a cancer in and of itself yes but let's move on people

you