Mehwish Khan | Couples, Cruelty & Culture | MindTrap with Mufti #25

[Music] all right people are fried in hamda lillah wa kafa well salatu salam o allah rasool mustafa-bhai body latino Davao woman be Hotel method will be Arthur Allen Medina dr. Robert for Salaam LA he ll poem people welcome back at North Island got another inshallah incredible episode lined up today and I've brought by public demand people people are

saying why is there not enough female participation so Jan taki demand people so as you can see before you the esteemed guests for tonight a relationship coach Mel wish gone all the way from Pakistan who's who's been between Pakistan and America somebody who creates and raises awareness on relationship challenges especially dealing with victims of abuse domestic violence so let me just bring on in

front in front of assalamu aleikum my wish as northland barley Kumar Salam how are you I'm good I'm danila how are you doing first I'm first and foremost sugar and for giving us the time and the opportunity to bring you on to really discuss some of these matters which are crucial I I do understand that you're in Pakistan and the situation is quite stressful so once again you know we dearly appreciate this thank you so much alright so I'm just going to do a quick just to inch just a quick check with the

audience to see that they can hear the volume there's no audio difficulties so people me sent they're just just double checking with the YouTube and Facebook right I can see yep it's coming through alright people I could see the comments feedback is coming through alright awesome awesome so if there's any audio issues you can give us a shout otherwise I'm seeing the software it's all picking it up as fine so my wish yes right so first of all Pakistan right now just just to get a little backdrop what is

the situation I mean it's getting it's it's strange because Pakistan began we with the kovat crisis kind of under control whilst the rest of the world was in a huge part especially the Western world was in a huge panic and and now as things are starting to calm down here we're seeing them kind of a bit of a chaos in Pakistan what's what's going on over there yes that is correct I think people were not taking it seriously and at a point they were like oh I don't think there's even a virus this is a conspiracy theory so people

were not getting serious and you know you would ask left and right and nobody had the virus so people like oh it's nothing it's nothing and and I I was talking to my dad and I told him that once the Ramadan was gonna get over I knew that things were gonna get out of hand because people were gonna go crazy on Eid and and it was just like that and now it spiked and if you go out you cannot say there is go at 19 going on because there is no social distancing people are not following the SOPs and it's just chaos everywhere so those are

the the basic guidelines that the PM is given so you have to wear your mask when you go out you have to have your gloves so if you're not doing that now he's gotten a bit strict like I think you two three days ago but no people are not ready to listen they I don't know what they're thinking because I don't go out much but I just went out twice for a drive and it's chaos I mean you go for groceries and it's not that bad usually but now it's crazy it's like more crazy than it was before they are all on top of each other in and minutes

really bad and it's sad because you're seeing that coming from the educated class more than you know the illiterate people they're doing more social distancing than then the ones we expect it to do I mean partly to do with this understanding that people you know they they don't they there's a lot of conspiracy theories floating around that you know this is something maybe Imran Khan has come up with this to you know do something he's got an agenda there is

no virus is it I think this is a part of that isn't it you see in Pakistan you would hear things where where you're here no but where else so they they think it's what I hear here is not what I hear it from USA because my sisters are there and I am connected with them and they and they tell me things are which I'm not aware of and I am sharing things on like whatsapp groups instead of and my sister who who is in u.s.

is telling me when are you getting that information from because that's false and I think oh really well it's going on all around in Pakistan all whatsapp groups so there has been so much of misinformation that I was like you know what I'm not going to share anything because I don't even know if it's valid or not at this point so so you can imagine how bad it is from that well yes sir Allah may Allah make things easy for you know there are some breakthroughs I know we were just saying this a little while back there's some breakthroughs happening with the UK I think takes a month methalone or something so they

come up with a certain drug that is producing some positive results but inshallah our thoughts are with people so I wish a relationship an issue that is see I jumped the gun there I was gonna say anything that is that heart with most people especially certain given times in there is relationships so this is an area of you know your forte really of looking at you know some of the challenges that arise when people are in relationships

and sometimes some drastic you know beyond challenges we're talking abuse and things like this this whole area I mean is this something that you know there's been a kind of passion or an interest for many years or of recent years or is it just an awareness of the world that's kind of brought you onto this path what what do you what do you feel ah no passion about it never thought about it I've heard it all my life didn't know didn't believe much of it because I didn't I didn't see that around my

community but I went I was in the US for seven years and I didn't visit Pakistan and I just moved back you're just a little over a year ago and meant a couple of people who started talking about having issues in their marriage and saying that it was okay and I was like how can that be okay if your husband is bubbly abusing you and she said well you know that's okay everybody does that is like no not everybody does that that's not right and then even to an extent where you know he hit me once you know and she's okay with it but it

was just once and they don't tell their parents they think it's okay it's the norm and I started asking them do you know about different personality disorders one of my favorite is narcissists it's something I came across or two three years ago no no it's my favorite because I read a lot on it so that's why it so people keep on saying you just talk about narcissists why don't you talk about other disorders so I was like yeah sure we should do that as well so I asked people here and they don't know about it they don't even know

what that means so I was really and that's where I was like you know what I'm just gonna take this up and you know try to educate people and tell you know women they just blame themselves they don't even know what's going on with them and it just I just felt that I was just driven by that actually and it just started over a year and a half ago so yeah that's about it I mean this kind of personality disorder in places like

Pakistan I mean these kind of things are you know I'm assuming almost I mean that would be completely honest it would be on on a par with like things like quantum physics I'm assuming oh it's all my wrong are a lot more people aware of these things are no they're not I mean I've asked multiple people I mean I can just talk about the people I've interacted with and they don't know and it's just not here even in u.s.

because when I when I post things and when I go on people's pages or like therapist pages and I read comments there are a lot of Americans out there a lot of people from all around the world who don't who didn't know that that this term existed and all about this for all viewers who I could see Billy's their ass off Billy shoutout you do but for some of our viewers if you give us like backdrop to what does this term mean what is it what are the kind of angles who are who are the people what are the kind of symptoms they display if they suffer from narcissistic personality

disorder one big thing is that they don't have empathy in them that's the one of the bigger things like oh boy yes yes yes so that's one of the biggest things that I could in just if you said in one word I won't go into detail but it's just they don't have empathy in them right okay and and they're very usually kind of self-centered very you know centric kind of people yes couldn't one argue I'm just saying that everybody is kind of self-centered to some extent well in a healthy way it's

ok but but you know being overly obsessed about yourself and thinking you're right you're not wrong and not seeing that you have made a mistake while you're hurting somebody you just think that's fine I can hurt this person I can say whatever I want with it's ok it's it's just it's just really cruel I think to me this is socialized into people or is this is it nature or nurture or is it both do you feel when people are is it a product of the culture like you said a moment ago about you know in Pakistan people say you know

Telugu you are a child uh you know it's just speaking like this oh you know cello he gave me one slap or something it doesn't really it is it cultural or is it oh is it and a cocktail of the both I think it's cultural I my take on it is that it's cultural because how much I know about narcissus is that it's they're not born with that I mean that that thing has not been proven yet they're made like that and that's because of either the parents neglect too much of neglect or too much of

overwhelmingly love where you know there's something want to make sure nobody else experiences ok so I suppose you do you feel that some cultures have this more than others I think Pakistan has that a lot see my experience is not that much and I'm really new to this whole thing

I mean it she's spending years so you're asking too many technical questions but I think being in Pakistan and and how men are raised here because they're not they're not accountable for anything they get away with so many things I just think that just adds up and I think that's why it might just be more over here than any other place but I could be totally wrong on that I mean is the sometimes an expectation that people are kind of like you said this is socialized

here that people are made this way do people sometimes do certain things because they feel they have to do them that is what's the role that they have in societies do you feel this any of that if it like so for example what does it mean to be masculine what does it mean to be macho society to a huge extent defines these roles yes definitely most definitely you know men are not allowed to show their emotions especially in our society there's I don't want to say the word but the word that's used is really bad if you're crying or if you're showing an emotion

it's just considered very feminine over here so we still stuck with that kind of mindset and that's why we have so many issues with with men over here because you suppress their emotions so much that when that comes out then it's like you know it's really bad and it comes out in the wrong way then you know then it comes out through like domestic violence and abuse and and you know he can't cry it out he just had a bad day and he wants to come home and cry they probably cannot Oh what would my mom say or my dad say or this person say or my whites say for that matter so it comes out the

other way where there is you know all sorts of abuse takes place I'm part of that as well when I was saying that social roles sometimes there there's a social kind of a narrative especially in this kind of households or this.e culture that that a man must control his woman there's a lot of this isn't there yes and even if the person himself let's say a person was relaxed but they might feel pressured that no but you know I have to

I have to be like this yes would you agree I totally agree yes yes I remember a lot of times when I was my first daughter was born here and I came across oh I have to go to the doctor because I was pregnant and I would ask my husband oh do you wanna take me and somebody would just I mean I don't even know you just a relative of his inducing oh he can't take you he's a man and I said

really no you either go with you so you have that kind of man's mindset and then you see men who are going they're being bullied oh you're such a dis and that you go you going to the doctor and stuff so you know that kind of mindset it is just you know it just causes more issues in in a relationship you know because I feel that I remember I mean I born and raised

here in the UK but I spent several years in Pakistan part of my studies and I remember when I was there and speaking with locals from thee so not the motherís are people outside okay and I remember that somebody was once telling me that they said well the way it happens here they were they were speaking about weddings and marriages and somebody was getting married at the time and that's why the discussion was relevant so the person said that he was speaking of his own experience as well as he said what we do is on the wedding night we find any little excuse like anything it could be anything and we

have to kind of slap the wife so so I said well what do you mean so he said like you have to slap her not in a good saying like because you know that kind of sense of row up that sense of awe and so I asked the person like did what do you mean did you actually do this and he said yeah he said I did and I said well I said what what like the woman came in and you just slapped her and he said well no I found some kind of an excuse like I said oh can I have some water and she gave the water and I said is that how you give a

glass and and I kind of slapped her so I was like but he you see the you know the strange thing here is at one level there's the sense of war on earth are you doing but then there's deeper layers to this like he felt he was kind of duty-bound to do this like I don't do these everything's gonna go wrong from here and this is why he was telling the other person oh you have to do like it it wasn't you see so the more layers you

see to it it gets like even freakier that what okay so you know it's not one layer it's just this person being you know an absolute idiot and unacceptable behavior but then he even if he doesn't want to do this and he thinks it's wrong he's still doing it out of a sense of duty that if I don't do this everything's gonna go wrong so I have to kind of set the rules in this way I'm happy have you come across this kind of behavior I'm sure you must have or who

doesn't I know that's a new one for me shocking one though but you can expect anything going on where you can hear anything sissie that's I think that's why I wanted you to talk about this and highlight with Islam because this is what is used Islam said that and and and the use like Islam has said that men are superior to women so yeah like you know that kind of mindset so I think they just think now's well they're God's walking on earth so they

can just do whatever they want no I I agree with you that I feel that you know amongst the few things that have been so manipulative for power is is religion and Islam is unfortunately no exception that people you know they misuse Islam they will use certain verses of the Quran if it suits them otherwise you know nobody would cave if you know it's interesting people often only refer to religion when it's when they are telling

someone else they refer to religion but they will refer to religion when it's to tell off the other or they use it to to chastise the other to tell somebody off they will say you know oh in the Quran it says this or Islam tells us that we say this and and this as well like domestic violence it is I think I mean I'm not so sure if they openly say look you know I'm beating the hell out of you because Islam tells me but they will justify somehow using religion like

saying that you know Allah has given me this authority and therefore you are disobeying me and I'm acting and it's always like that Eunice you see or if he slaps you for instance in this society then you go and you tell the family even the parents are the other girl's parents it's like Oh him did you provoke him really so you see you justify everything he does everything a man does in the every wrong Amanda's in this society is justified but if a woman tries to say

something she is snob and said oh you've learned it from the vest or this women empowerment BS thing you know no it's not women empowerment you got to look into your religion and see all that and then they say oh well no you're following the wrong move let me take you to see that that's how they control you so religion is used to control women definitely and even to some extent parents use that over kids because I did not seriously I did not

know that kids have rights over parents I did not know that like what do years ago some of these for our viewers what would you say awesome or an interesting right that you'd come across oh well they have the right to be themselves you can't be themselves oh I said to meet to be this is this is

a fun game well you have the right to beat yourself or to get beat by me they're like which which right do you want to express themselves as yeah yes they're allowed to do that and we're not allowed to hit them and say we're of your parents we can do that we're not we're not supposed to do that and that is something so common I swear I didn't know that till war 2013 that this is wrong because in our culture it was considered so normal you can slap your

Kate and it's it's it's frowned upon in our religion we're not supposed to do that we're not supposed to humiliate our kids we're supposed to consider their feelings when they're in public and all these things where in our society we really don't care we're the parents we can say whatever we have the license to say whatever however we want to say that and we use Islam I mean do you feel sometimes you know this do you feel sometimes it's like urbanized life or a particular I don't know because I I feel this is this is my perception

I feel that in let's say in the UK the the Pakistani parents that were that are here now obviously first generation so the the people that came over here they were kind of exceptionally harsh when it came to their children exceptionally harsh like so from our generation all of my friends everybody growing up would have had very kind of tough parents you know like you mentioning except that to the to the power of 10 now the

interesting thing is that you see like when I went to Pakistan and I went to the village and things like this I came to learn that when it was their parents that generation they weren't actually especially in the village they I mean they were they may have been strict in certain things but they weren't that harsh in in beatings and things like this this is what I came to learn about this particular so I don't know whether it's different in different places but it got me thinking that I strange that is that that in the villages that people

or maybe it was just the villages I encountered that yes I mean they were strict but they were kind of like torturing the their children well I mean this is obviously now they're all people but but that generation that then moved away kind of was very strict in turn to their kids I don't know how this so one of the things that I thought it was is a lot of pressure urban life pressure so people that move to cities they live sometimes in densely populated places kids not a lot of space

then a lot of work pressure you know financial pressure these and they don't know what to how to cope sometimes and and what they do is they just externalize that frustration by just beating the hell out you know using the kid as a punch I go whatever is I don't know this is what I was thinking is the same thing like you know it's just the same thing when when when somebody from here from a village moves to UK or USA and they're raising their kids it's the same thing they're really strict you can't go to public school you have to go to all-girls school and your your interaction is really limited and you

just give me to your community and all you you're bidden really badly if you break a rule or something like that so I think it's just more like a cultural adjustment and it's just hard for them that's why they're more strict because they don't know anything better so I think that's why that's where they become more strict that's that's what I think because you see if your parents were strict when when they moved over they're bringing you up you're not like that with your kids right because you were bottom in that culture so for you those things were really normal I mean I find it incredibly strange to be honest like I couldn't I've got two very young

daughters I could never imagine beating them up I mean that would be ridiculous they would be I couldn't even I mean I mean imagined because really to even tell off a kid even a stern look is is enough really two kids usually get if we care if you just look at them seriously now I think I don't know like how did people do it

maybe you should need you need to bring those people on and ask them when they were doing that what were they thinking I mean what about the current status quo right now in in Pakistan do you feel like because now this generation so I suppose my kind of generation that was the first to be born in the UK that kind of generation so the second generation here and now have kids they're not you know how in fact they they're usually very caring towards their kids so what about in Pakistan now is the current generations who have kids are they still you still think the bay

kind of they kind of like easygoing with the hand I don't think so I even in schools we were allowed to you know the teachers were allowed to hit you with I don't know what you know it's tougher but no we're not allowed to do that in schools and I've seen that it's not that I don't see anybody or I don't hear at least that you know they're hitting or you know this is going off because when I was kids we could see that happening in public or on eve gatherings or family gatherings we could see our cousin

getting a smack on the face yeah so no I don't see that I see that that the newer generation is more more aware of the fact that this is wrong and we shouldn't be doing that so no yes it's a lot of change that way and they're not that they're not that strict anymore like our parents were you see there's so much of exposure now so that's that's helped a

lot because now parents know they may know like you know women's rights and women empowerment and all that you could just snap somebody a few decades ago but not because of social media being so strong everybody is aware of their rights I mean your kid could just get up and tell your 10 year old could get up or 12 you yo could get up and tell you this is my right and you know you can't do that to me it freaks me out thinking

when they both gonna jump in a couple of months but so latest eight and Zozo or Zara is five yeah so yeah so young but soon they'll be all this that you're saying the mantra my right you tell me you I need you need to ask you something sick I want you to tell me

how would you educate people especially with my part of the world by because I feel that the Islam in Pakistan is just a cultural Islam and it's got nothing to do with the real Islam what's your take on that and how would you address that for people at my side I definitely agree that I mean Islam is obviously the Islam is Islam but the problem is the kind of rendition the kind of makeover that it's

hard is heavily influenced by culture so even though the fundamental beliefs may be kind of similar that it may be the you know same kind of thing but it's just it will look so different because of you know generation upon generation of of giving a different makeover so it's got that flavor that kind of Pakistani flavor to it so yes I mean I honestly I I feel all that the bean Islam in places like Pakistan unfortunately has long been

hijacked and it's it's turned into something which is really linked to power and you know whether it's exercising power exercising control whether it's telling someone off whether it's telling somebody how they ought to behave whether it's you know it's all power dynamics it's not and then some things are just like tradition like obviously Anika for a wedding you know the there might be an order for someone you know they've got like cultural traditions associated with religion ie then Ramadan and things like these

festivals but otherwise it's so heavily tied into just controlling people you know and I find it so such like you know right now I was seeing on social media I was just discussing this actually just today or yesterday but on social media with this whole thing in Bollywood so shunt whoa singh rajput had committed suicide so I was seeing I don't follow Pakistani what is the celebrity so closely oh I'm not so familiar with them but I was seeing on some of the insta

pages that I follow that there seems to be a bit of an upheaval currently in Pakistan because some celebrities I think had said like rest in peace like to just a shot that kind of Tweety or rittany on Instagram or some way so people had kind of just inundated these people you know the gates of hell had opened up when people were like so shanties a Kaffir and how can you say rest in peace and you know and you can see I would I didn't know who this celebrity was but I was just reading his response he's from Pakistan and he was kind of just saying he had some video

clips saying something about look at cha you know you guys think you you know isn't a lot the one who decides about the al-qaeda but you guys have already done the day of judgment already who's going to hell who's not but I can see people so easily just becoming so fed up of Islam because not because of what Islam actually says but because how people are exercising Islam like if if I'm trying to express humanity by saying oh my god you know may Allah have mercy on him and somebody says what the hell you saying you know may Allah have mercy

on a kaffir you you're a kaffir and and then and then they're gonna quote some verse of the Quran so I most people don't know the Quran so they can't answer back and they're just gonna get stuck and leads some people to thinking you know what then I'm just fed up with this I don't know this is the feeling I get what are you exactly I totally agreed they're so frustrated everything on every little little thing you know you're wearing a job and it's just a little bit not right and oh my goodness you had held this is not the right way and if you want to wear it wear it the proper way and on little little things

it is I mean you guys just like you say it's like oh my goodness just just just leave me alone and you know I was fortunate enough when I was here I had a car ease up I'm talking about a car he says was not educated and he used to come and he used to teach me and I was what what 19 then 20th at the most and I said to him you know curry stuff I don't cover my head so am I going to hell so he looked at me and he started laughing and he said I cannot decide that for you in love with and I said well I hear that all the time and go to

that and and he was like no you should do that because you're representing Islam and and but I cannot say that you go to hell and I was like I didn't even like his response and I think it is so weird why is he saying that because I had heard it so much and and I've known him what I've known in since 2006 and he's the only person I have always this is the curry sauce I've always called him and I would tell him I have this problem and he said get a fossa and I'll come back to you and I would always tell him that when you bring a fatwa I need

it from the Quran and I need the ayat number and I need the translation because you know there's so much joy as opposed to the we we were brought up wearing two V's and believing in puppies and hanging though was you know those things around our house is this is gonna protect us and stuff like that and and it was war 2013 um my daughter passed away she was born and she passed away

after 6 days in a lot of people thank you and and a lot of people calling me from Pakistan and they were they just kept saying one thing you know she's your gateway to heaven every person who called me said and I was so frustrated and angry literally I said one more and says I'm gonna break the phone and I went to my dad my dad was here and that's it why should we book even saying that to me you know I'm such a big sinner and they keep on saying that that's not really helping me you know they're improvising in the wrong way

and he was like no it's in the Quran and this is a word from God and it's a promise and I don't know right now but I look up and tell you and I was mad at my dad and I was like he's just my father he's just being a father so I go man I call my carries up again and I was really upset and I said Carlson you know I don't even cover my head and you know I don't even practice Islam so much then people keep on saying that to me it really frustrates me why are they saying that and he said and this is how he said it and he said listen did you know that you were gonna be born in this family did you choose that and I said no so he

said Allah knew that for you right and I said yes so he said God knows were you heading towards and he's bought this prior to you maybe this will bring you to Islam maybe you will couple you maybe you will become more practicing and listen you're never going to be perfect so so take it easy and it has a blessing and take it from there and his words struck me honestly the way he said it to me and and and I did wear the hijab actually I did wait for one year in USA and I was really happy but I couldn't I couldn't keep it on because I thought at

that point that I shouldn't be gossiping I sure like my character was no heart depicting my appearance I can stop everything but just not the gossip so that's why I took it all because I thought I need to cleanse myself honestly I don't know if I'm right or wrong on that but I thought that being

in a non-muslim country I first needed to make sure that my actions were good enough so when my neighbor saw me or when I interacted with people and I was wearing their job they were all good about my religion you see because that's why I took it off you know so I feel and I'm very lucky look I do feel that there is a valid difference of opinion on this anyway I know some people had asked in the question saying about somebody mentioned their mom shot the man said that my mom doesn't wear the headscarf I I have

mentioned I've got a video clip on this on surah Noor the verse of hijab it's on YouTube but I have mentioned that look 7 there I've been scholars that have said that there this the head covering which is now called hijab it's not actually called hijab traditionally but it's called remark but the this Tamar is not obligatory according to several scholars I know from Pakistan for example Java dramedy sab is all an opinion as well and I did say that looking at the evidences I do find myself in line with that group as well that it's not a an obligation but it's it's just modesty

yes and I've seen that we do of yours and I was on that live chat is where you said that it's more about dressing modestly than having their job on but I mean now let's say you speak about Pakistan no imagined effort were like this or anything people the problems people would just go mad isn't it they would just flip and say you this person is what you will button it seems crazy I never thought much about this before up until only recently I thought you know I was having a discussion with somebody

and they said to me you know what Mufti a few people you know they've watched you in Pakistan and stuff like this and and I said yeah probably you know people do reach out to me sometimes from Pakistan and Indians just like that but but as the person said to me you know what you should on a serious note don't ever go back to Pakistan so and I was like get out of the end they said no I'm being serious and you know what for the first time I actually thought about it I thought damn I actually have a point that they said that you know what people you know there's a great chance like if especially in places like Karachi which

are dangerous that you people you know they don't think anything this thing call yeah one bullet there right there right I remember you once said something when you like she about tattoos and that was okay for Muslims to have that who's and I went I have this friends group from here and I was in US and I said oh well now I'm gonna get a tattoo and they were like were you following to you and I said this guy is like you know he's educated and you need to warn his profile and read about it so you know

stuff like like that and you know we we we can't respect difference of opinion no we cannot do that oh we have to make our point we are right for that that's a big issue and I'm talking just mostly around Pakistan that's the thing what I'm saying is I oh how much are you educated or or you know there was just your so like they're not even educated that much or I'm ten years older to you so I know better than you so it's that kind of mindset here you know so yeah good luck to you if you're coming back here you know another thing interesting

is do you find a in places you know like Pakistan do you find a greater divide between the middle classes and the upper-middle classes on religion like is it because because the religion is kind of hijacked by the by the kind of mullahs now because of that you know people who sometimes are educated like by educated I mean because I suppose more results or educated but educated I mean like in you cities and our professionals doctors

lawyers accountants things like that there's there's a kind of disdain and they contempt they look down on the kind of Millar class now has this led to because much greater divergence in these classes of people the the kind of more wealthy the more kind of educated middle upper middle class and the beam or together because do you feel it has I the reason I'm asking is because I sometimes get you know messages from people who had almost kind of given up on Islam they might be from let's say

places like Pakistan India they've had given up but then sometimes they've come across my video and they've been really increased that how can you be like this and talk about Islam and then they've started listening to my stuff and they found it very interesting and then they've you know reached out to me that they were on the verge like at least within it's not about announcing it but they as far as they were concerned that they were had almost kind of finished with Islam altogether I don't know if you've experienced a Muni or the society no I have not really

come across anybody like that but I can I felt that as well at some levels because as you know if every day from the time you wake up till the time you sleep everything is fertilized with religion then you're gonna get frustrated and you just gonna you know back off and I was fortunate enough that my parents they were not strict like that and when I got married you see that's the thing my parents always prayed and there you should say go pray and group it but they were not like you know standing on her heads or something like that

but we saw them all four of us we saw our parents praying all their lights mashallah until day now and when I got money that was the things that I took with me this is what my mom does this is what my dad does this is something I need to continue so I think I was fortunate enough in that way that I wasn't really that frustrated because my parents were not like that they were a bit my parents were just balanced they were not like you know one extreme or do the job or don't do the job even before I was married I did her job I was 16 or

17 they never said anything they were okay with it and they said my dad only said that if you want to do it make sure that you continue then for the rest of you don't make a joke officer that you wear it and then you break it off and you know but other than glad I never most of Pakistan I don't I assume that they don't do hey Jeremy job like that no no no no no it's very open if you know you can dress up however you want to it's not like what you know you're told hearing that people there you go is the

place yes is the police come here just don't go to the Pali Bonin's yeah so okay so with things like relationships this is obviously something you're very passionate about creating awareness on these matters on you know dealing with some of the challenges do you feel that the nature of relationships has slightly changed in Pakistan or is it changing so so far our understanding is a lot of relationships in Pakistan or arranged marriages for example now usually it's

arranged by relatives let's say you know such and such cousin I mean they use the word cousin to just mean relative like such as such son such and such daughter is this still the the main media more people branching out in Pakistan do they are you trying to ask I'm sorry my son just woke up so go distract are you are you saying that the just arranged marriages here or is that solution is that is is it changing that is it now becoming I don't know like our people now just going out they are finding their own

things website yes it's very good yes it's very open here it's more normalized that you can have love marriages it's very normalized it's considered fine not look round upon a lot and and and it's okay for not that dot that extend but you know I'm just trying to know the person so you know if let's say I can I see you know to my cousin there's a girl are you entrusting and then they'll be like okay I want to talk to her to see if you guys click and and then you know you set them up you exchange the phone numbers and they talk and they see if

they you know if the chemistry is there then they then they take it to the next level so such things as sorry to happen here it's not like all arranged and all that kind of thing you know okay because it's it's interesting in many ways here in the UK I mean obviously in the UK there's many non arranged you know people do their own thing now but but it's interesting how still a lot of things like the caste system things like that are still actually unfortunately very strong here still like you will see if the older generation are very strict on you know are they of a particular caste are they you know jerk Chaudhary are they Raji

are they what are these people and they still consider these things very like no no no you know you can't disperse so I mean I I wonder in Pakistan especially in the city what's your experience what is the situation with that yes yes I bought multiple proposals being put down by parents because they were out of a caste or they didn't they were like oh this caste is looked down upon so even even if those people are well-to-do and everything but you know their great great great great great grandfather was working in the village and the fields it

doesn't matter no so it's it's an insult it's considered an insult I can my daughter be married to whose great great like nobody even cares don't even except those things so know that those things are very much still in the culture and and that is a big issue here and yeah so so so I wanted to ask you what is your take regarding taking Islam and talking about verbal abuse what does Islam say about it and are there any of these or anything that you could share

with people and especially women out there who to encourage it no I mean I think to be honest I think most people most of Islam they understand through common sense that Allah wouldn't say wouldn't condone things like beating up this is not a people just to fight through the kind of reasoning in saying look like people will say oh if I don't

you know beat them then how they won't listen you know like so this this is them kind of justifying it trying to say well you know if I don't or is it Tory knock we seek that you know we got to kind of give them one two slaps and fix them up but this I don't think they believe in their heart of hearts that this is what a lie is telling me to do it's just I don't think that people in the heart of I think they might believe that Allah will excuse them for it because it's they can reason it like there's a reason why they're doing it

but I don't think they feel that you know oh the only reason I'm doing this is because Allah has told me I should you know slap some somebody or punch them or I don't think so now the only verse the verse the hitting verse in the Quran that is the only kind of point of contention that people do sometimes justify their behavior with now I do think I think it's a reverse kind of approach it's not that they've read this in the Quran until oh this is how they just like that anyway but this just consoles them that they think you know

it's another excuse that when people say well why did you do it and say well yeah we're allowed to do it anyway you know this is it's that thing that it just kind of justifies it it's not that that for them now I have explained the hidden verse I've got a whole detailed video explaining it in much in much length which is on YouTube that look I used this term in English trajectory hermeneutics which is in in you know soul in the Sharia it would be build Mikasa okay it's with the Mikasa of the Sharia that it would become Haram so

when the verse was revealed it was the I did explain that that verse even though it doesn't start like like that but it does it does have that indeed that father Ravana but this was for that society who were like that at that time now what that means I do just to sum it up but please do anybody that watches this watch my actual detail video because I won't do justice in just a few minutes kind of wrapping up that topic where I dedicate the whole discussion they it's on YouTube they're hitting verse now the the Society of the prophet sallahu solemn was a very kind of lack of

warrior society and they had a kind of a cold to them now the way they saw things was that they did used to discipline now people would discipline they would do things now they would do a lot more and what happened is the Quran placed a parameter now why did he even allow this at that time in the prophets time not because the Prophet would have encourages in fact the hadith of the Prophet because this is interesting you have this verse and then then a deist of the Prophet says that were laying out the river he Arak of that you know that if you were to be the best of you

will net you know if you are to live up to exemplary behavior you would never do this and the Prophet said and I have never won a vehicle you know and I am from what is it an a hater come I am from the best amongst you and I have never hit a woman he mentions inner thief well any other rebirth they are calm and those who are of true character will never hit but why was this versatility and I did explain that in the prophets time you see there were many challenges and part of the challenge was the society including the women the women as

well were from that society that they felt that oh and you know this is found in some places even in places like Pakistan and this is this can be today part of the problem in places like Pakistan and I gave the example of there was a Moroccan artist a song I mean a singer I think she's a singer or some kind of some kind of an artist now she had made she had given an interview and this was only a couple of years ago and he went viral because she was asked and she's not religious I mean she delicious

I mean apparently of course I don't look I'm not trying to judge her but I'm just saying she was giving some regular interview wasn't an Islamic thing and she's not an Islamic spokesperson she's just she just sings and stuff but she said somebody asked her about about men and she said look if your man doesn't slap you if you do something wrong then what kind of a man is he and this turn went really viral because it became a huge controversy so I was giving the example that this was 2018 or something 2017 I can't remember now I said what do

you think now the Arab society back 1,400 years ago the women many of the women had this that if we do something wrong we expect to be disciplined now the problem was that this this is why I mentioned that in that it said this it restricted it to that the Prophet did say that you would never hit if you were to be the best of character and shortly after the Prophet you have the you have the Companions like if not person his student who say it's Hoss so the way trajectory hermeneutics works is that as that society changes and they

reach a certain plateau it becomes Haram so just as for example slavery and things like this once it reaches a stage where the society has now changed that ruling would change and I did mention that it is Haram categorically to hit it's not it's utterly unacceptable it's not justifiable and that verse is abrogated now that but in more detail in my video clip but that's people do misuse this verse of the Quran I do agree that they do misuse it but I think people that misuse it don't you know act

out on it they act out anyway and then justify themselves with this it's not that they think you know oh because Allah has said this I'm gonna go and do this they just like that and what they're doing is they are now saying oh well I'm justified to do it anyway that's the disusing and what about but what do you think but verbal abuse Oh what would you say about that when you're saying verbal abuse like swearing and things like yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I mean that's not condoned in you know people I don't think people use

religion to justify that if you had have you I don't know if you've experienced that have you because I've not experienced that people use religion to justify verbal abuse but they just do it so in Pakistan some societies some languages have you know they I mean some languages have much more swearing in them casually than other languages so you know in Pakistan definitely I would say like Punjabi and it's kind of related languages have a lot of swearing

for example in them just casually just as Spanish for example actually has a lot of swearing as casual swearing much more than English like they just have is casual words but then in then this so this one that is one layer but then there's another layer that people are constantly abusing somebody with swearing at them both and I would add I would go beyond that and I would say it's not even just swearing because you don't really need to swear it's things like what I found in I find in systems DC cultures I mean in the DC culture

generally by extension is a lot of taunting this kind of taunting culture but they kind of are like like buns and Barney and things like this like that kind of AC it's difficult to translate it because sarcasm isn't the same because sarcasm in English is actually quite funny and you're being sarcastic but you read funny now I suppose in some ways it's like belittling someone definitely is belittling definitely but and it's they use these kind of tones that are very dear Robert disparaging often but yeah I mean I don't know if

that's as I suppose there is as well the actual abuse where people are just swearing but I think this abuse by means of this is a lot more common probably you know by just watching somebody just constantly knocking their character down by just you know oh you're pathetic oh you're dumb oh you're they you know even if you're not swearing but you're just kind of saying oh you can't do anything correct or you can't do it you know just constantly knocking the person's confidence right right you know on that note I want you to say that don't you feel though it's interesting

that you're speaking of Pakistan and by extension is the DISA culture I would say it's very similar presumably in India as well and in other parts of the world as well Arab world as well but you see there's a lot of things like relationships going bad like that's something you know something you dabble in a lot dealing with things like that inspiring people trying to tell them to kind of persevere resilience building and and men obviously or let's say often often the

kind of culprits the bad guys know but you know the DC culture isn't it usually the dynamics between the mother-in-law and the daughter-in-law that are the cause of a lot of fitna and facade and the destruction of relationships not not in every relationship you know there's people live over here now separately

from their in-laws as well so that they don't have much of interaction with their in-laws that much so so no it's not always the mother-in-law is the culprit especially yes when you're living in a joint family yes they're common like as a strong featuring factor right but in a strong kind of because you see the family structure is different here you know you're you live in a joint family and if you want to you know separate it's considered disrespectful that you've got to leave your old parents alone and live separately

so yeah it's like no what do you what do you want us to do yeah but and it's it's sometimes a bit more than that as well like it's not just the I mean there is the joint space obviously there's that issue but there's the the dynamic between is it there's like a territorial kind of struggle power struggle going on that why is my son it's more interested in

you and you know this is here in the UK it's like so widespread in the UK oh you know the amount of people that speak to me relationship issues and I would say probably in generously speaking probably anything between I don't know 65 to 75% of the cases one of the you know the kind of major stakes to the heart of the relationship has been the the kind of dynamics between the let's say the

daughter-in-law and the in-laws this has been a huge it's been really pivotal in the breakdown of the relationship other things have happened as well but that's been a huge huge factor and this is here in the UK I'm not even guess because you see the thing is that what happens is but your mom selects the girl she brings her in and now the moms not happy so the guy is going crazy like you you were the one who bought an Audi was it because you don't need like oh my gosh you know because he's like he's like going there

and then he just enters the home and then this first he's goes to the mom and then mom has a whole lecture then he comes in the room the Wise has this world you know list of complaints and he's like oh my gosh I can't take this so you know the pressure just goes this goes really high on him like that you know and and home is supposed to be a place of love and comfort for for both men and women so if if the mother-in-law keeps on doing that then then the divorce rate that's why it's going higher in our society as well yeah I mean it's it's it's so it's intriguing because you know in a society like

Pakistan or that culture that culture and I'm not restricting this to Pakistan because we're in the UK but because there's that desi heritage the you know it's interesting that I feel that a a lot of the kind of stigma sometimes towards women comes in not always but in many cases from women as well Oh like like women will be a huge kind of hurdle to women like the the mother-in-law would be the one for example like you said in many cases they will even arrange the marriage and then

oppress the what's going on and another thing like people for example don't this thing now it's faded in in the West but especially in the East is still there this thing of like daughters they see daughters as a burden obviously a pure jahiliya kind of culture but it's still and sometimes you'll see coming from the women like the women will think you know oh they prefer like people will say oh they see women love their sons over did this over their daughters even though

they are women it's interesting because you see the thing is that's what I was talking with my with my friend the other day and I was like look we have sons we as mothers need to do a better job in raising our boys because we have a responsibility because boys are so messed up in our culture because their moms did hold them accountable you know in the first place the mom was like oh no he's my son it's okay and you know and that led to so many issues in his marriage because the mom who is a female was already doing that to her son so you

know and like you said Julia of not wanting daughters you see me I this is my personal understanding that back then they used to bury Dorcas when they were when they had a daughter it was considered an insult or whatever and they would bury the girl now what is it now this there's a totally different picture over here now if a daughter comes home and she wants a divorce it's the same thing it's like you'd rather kill yourself there's so many women who who say oh we can't do that my mind I mean I I was speaking to somebody in her relative she's in bad condition she's brutally hurt like everywhere

she's got bruises she said as the father is another city or something like that and she said she said she can't do that why because probably her father will kill her or something I would not take her back so it's like you know I've spoken to people person let's say the woman is trying to get a divorce now the biggest impediment to her obviously the husband he's obviously annoyed and peeved off but even bigger a stress like she's got the courage to go against the husband the biggest risk factor is her

own immediate family like her like her her mom her dad her brother's her sisters things like this they turn on the woman I've spoken to people whose siblings and they they will say you know she should be ashamed of herself and I've said to the person like I spoke to somebody he said my sister she should be ashamed of herself asking for divorce and I said but she's a victim of domestic violence I mean shouldn't you be kind of taking her side thinking what the hell like you know she's getting she got beat up he's like look that's different but the guy said he's gonna fix up okay fine but she shouldn't kind

of leave no because and it comes back to this kind of Jay Helia of thinking that the girl is a burden in look if she's not married she's a you know like a Borge she's like oh my god my sister my daughter my whatever is not married yeah yeah and I want you to and then again once again highlight what does Islam say because divorce is considered it's frowned upon in our society and and I know when I was going I don't know who taught me that or where I heard that was

it's a school or somewhere that in the Quran divorce is the most hated thing that Allah has mentioned and if you know when you get a divorce and there was just so many stories I mean saying them is like look people say oh the these things are all made up by the way the Koran you know divorced in in Islam is actually a neutral kind of thing it's not Islam isn't kind of saying hey everybody get divorce but but at the same token it's not saying oh my

god this is a terrible thing it's not there's a surah in the Quran called surah total are the losses in the Quran when speaking about a lot like he says well you know he speaks about a couple look for I'm circling my oven or three on the acid that you either stay together be my roof with kind of kindness or you know oh you separate you separate gracefully now Allah mentions that were India too far apart you learn Ilocano mentality but if you are to separate you see one of the things that people think about when separation which is natural as

human beings they think oh well you know what am I gonna do for money like what would I do like people think this I mean the amount of people I've spoken to and the one of their big concerns even though they're suffering is what will I do for money how would I survive now Allah says were iniative ferrara are if they if the two decide to go separate young nila who Kulemin sati allah will provide for them for each from his vastness now you see this so this is how the quran is addressing you know this hadith by the way the abogado had a little light bala that the most despised

halal to Allah Allah is a weak and fabricated hadith it's extremely weak according to some or other what others have said it's fabricated it's not from the Sunnah but it's become so popular we will say you know the lock is such a bad and I feel that is inherited from you know the old Hindu kind of past that people have over did that because the in Hinduism there was no such thing as divorce you know it was like Iceland it should be you know the the sathya thing she should die as well she should kind of if he dies then burn her as well you know this

was the old even though not a rule Norrell hindus practice that but they didn't have even today the word in in hindi is going to be either divorce or the luck they take the auto word and the Arabic word because they don't have a word for it so this in Islam it was a neutral act there were certain wives that the Prophet himself divorced and they were and there was a others that he didn't it's not this is not a shameful act rather than people suffering you know like would you rather somebody suffered and suffered for years on end or they just moved on and you know just

live their own lives because I feel sometimes this you see part of this problem is that people judge like they judge their societal success based on relationships so people feel that you know to be successful you really need to be in a relationship and I feel sometimes there's a greater expectation I don't know I just feel this I could be wrong but I feel there's a greater expectation from women towards women on

their success like men sometimes you see men kind of seize them in their mind sometimes as kind of when it comes to success they don't necessarily see themselves always as a couple they just see oh I need to do this I need to do this I need to do this socially speaking I'm just speaking from a societal perspective but I feel that there's a greater pressure on women that part of this success factor is being married like this this thing of like oh you're in a in a very secure some relationship I I don't know if that's evolutionary

and part of the psyche or is it more social or how is that but I do sense this that people they see like like imagine you saw a successful businessman now whose I don't know is in his 40s like let's say now they they people would think old businessman career rich whatever they might think see these things but if they saw a business woman one of the first things they kind of gauge her success by his oh well how she got a family and how she got a you see like people I don't know like they have this perspective

once again talking about that perspective from just Pakistan I'm just so general no I feel this is general I feel leaves on that West even in the West I feel that non-muslims every but like I feel that there's a a great kind of obligation on women to this success factor has relationship in it like it's not just otherwise they feel unsuccessful I don't know if this this is what I sent says this is how I feel things are I could be that could just be my perception of things I don't know if

you know this I never thought of it like that but it didn't strong ends it's interesting point of view yeah I've seen so what would you you know what we'll take some questions some people have been saying some questions but I want to ask you before we go to some questions what would you say to people who are embarking on a relationship now let's say people let's say somebody's embarking on a relationship they pretty fresh into me a couple what are some of the what some of these good you know some golden advice that you would give

people don't rush don't rush it and talk about the bad things I think it's more important to talk about the bad things you know if I mess up are you going to be with me if if I break a boundary of yours by what are you gonna do those those real things not like the good things you know everybody's gonna be there for the good things I think we don't talk about the real stuff Jimmy's been bullying they've already embarked or they're about to embark and they should have this conversation using just just introduction order you going to say like they're already in a relationship no no

I'm asking if this conversation wench do you think it should be hard I think you should after you they known each other for you know quite some time yeah yeah I mean if they are ready to take it to the next level now you know like you know tie the knot or something so I think before you tie the knot you I personally feel you need to ask the real questions you know like if I disagree with you on this what is it gonna be and those kinds of things and and and things like you know I've heard couples saying that the the lady wanted to do her job after ten years being married and

demanding want it and there that ended up in a divorce or the guy became religious and he wanted to grow a beard and you know be all that and the girls didn't want that and that ended up in divorce so I think some real real questions should be discussed before you want to try the north end and I just think that make sure that the person is god-fearing I think a person if he is or she is born

faith how could you know because when you 12 when you interact with people you know if they're you know they're conscious about God or not or they're just you know I feel that well they're probably just on mushrooms okay let's take some questions people what are some of the thoughts occupying the awesome

minds of our awesome audience first of all zebra you doing it you doing it as always appreciate the support and the super chats right so what's going on I'm just bringing up some of these oh okay the only not sighs okay right so question of these thought thoughts on silent treatment in relationships and strategies to counter it my wish what do you think silent treatment I wonder is that silent treatment coming from the

man or from the woman and does that make a difference it's horrible I think it's horrible and you know people I think the silent treatment comes from the person who is wrong so if I'm wrong I would just use the silent treatment to manipulate the person so they're all confused and I going crazy in their head that you know that's one of the traits of a narcissist I read as well so silent

treatment okay but how to counter is there would you advise the strategy on countering silent rule I don't know be silent as well no reaction is the best reaction you know because they're

attacking you with that right so when they're attacking you they are waiting for a response because you're gonna get you know agitated and stop and you're gonna start a conversation so that will keep the conversation going so when they're doing the silent treatment you also do the silent treatment that's my take on it you don't need words to country silence is gold right so right so let's see people any questions feel free to post them I'm just reading

through some of your can you talk about Lucy has asked can you talk about why the leaders Mulvey's beads don't talk about narcissism is it because the majority are narcissists themselves they probably we don't know that wrong I can't think I think people just take these things as a given wouldn't they they don't really I don't think they they just think that's how it is it's like the thing I was saying that you know there's this societal pressure over there that people feel you know I need

to behave in this way otherwise you know I'm not a true man or I'm not true you know and there is this this kind of and mullahs and peers already think they're very superior so like you know of course you know you can't check them in any case yeah I think you know I don't think that common person can actually relate to you know movies and mallanna's and stuff like that at all I think that they're very unapproachable yep so you

doing it all right people let's see what are some some questions sometimes both need to relax and meditate and do some relationship building yeah I suppose you know what awesome what what would you say are some other tips to keep let's say they're on the relationship phase now to keep a relationship healthy what what's a good a good tip you see I don't believe in good tips and advice because each relationship is its unique the couple are unique so if I say something doesn't mean it's gonna work for that

couple so so to each their all you gotta really understand who you're dealing with know person because sometimes somebody comes in advises you something and you use that advice but it doesn't work with your partner because your partner is totally different so you need to know when somebody is advising you or your asking for advice when you take that advice does it work with your partner because it can go the opposite way as well so I really really don't believe in you know when you come on board and people give their advice on relationships I don't believe in that I because I've personally seen that people would say why don't you do this you know

and and I would be like in my heart I knew this my husband is not gonna be like this so your husband like they don't work good for you and they're really pushy about it no no no try it people are these things people no one's advocating silent treatment so yeah I mean but what about this thing that you know people say about setting goals and doing this together and having joint goals do you feel that people should have

joint or because don't people they kind of develop differently so let's say the person you are today five years ago ten years ago you would have been a different person I mean I mean like mentally in that journey of life so if you are with somebody like maybe some friends that you've got for example or in a relationship some of them may have developed similarly some maybe more than you some may be less than you today so isn't everybody kind of on their own journey so when you expect sometimes

there's an expectation that people must kind of develop together that you know we must kind of have similar goals but isn't that a bit demanding what are your thoughts on this there is because you see I tell you something when I look at myself 10 years back I don't recognize that of course not like what that was not me so I Becca not be me that's stupid that you're like what filter was I using yeah so see when you embark on a relationship you can't just be burying Bridget you gotta be flexible because you know things happen and like I told you I lost a daughter so things you don't plan

these things right I mean things happen and and and you change so you you don't discuss these things beforehand some things just happen in relationship and you're gonna take it from there so you gotta be open about it and be more compassionate about it because when you fall in love and you get married that person is not going to stay the same and neither are you you're both going to change so you go to evolve around your relationship in that way otherwise it's not gonna work I mean I think it's not gonna work I mean if my husband would say oh I want you to go back ten years and be that person I will like oh my goodness I don't take that you know so like the

relationship is dead so you know people change things happen you change it just gotta go with the flow and and be open do you advocate things like counseling what do you do yes yes I thought I frowned about that before moving to us a counseling therapist I thought crazy people did that yeah I couldn't you just realize that everybody is crazy but in u.s.

it was like after I lost my daughter you know a lot of therapists came forward in a lot of counselors came forward and and and in the beginning my sister was with me nothing what are they coming like I was getting really agitated like and she was like you know that's the thing that they're shown compassion for you and I was really irritated in the beginning but after a few days I was like no I need it I think I do need it and I think that it is so important you need to reach out to people anybody who's willing to listen to you you need to reach out and I think be yourself one of the things I think society does to us is they want us to

change and become someone we're not and and that's just suppresses our so much and I think that's why we have so much of exciting depression because we can't be yourself because if I'm being myself then it's considered rude to somebody obscenely right next to me so I think just try to be real and connect with people who are okay with you being real oh yeah Maddy singing I'm back did you miss me of course we always miss you Maddie somebody saying clear saying meditation CBT yep CBT cognitive behavioral therapy as a barre saying what does she think

about polygamy you know you said earlier on in the discussion about this concept of masculinity and men and you know I mean it's difficult speaking about let's say your emotions as a man but would you want a man in all honesty to be all emotional because I kind of feel that even though women do say that men should be emotional like we'll kind of pour their

hearts out and kind of like be old but I I feel that deep down people don't really appreciate that about men like they want men to still just just always have things in under control so I find it a bit kind of like a contradiction in society like on one hand they say look it's okay to kind of break down and cry but if a man did just break down I don't mean as a one-off but if he generally just like you said you know somebody came home and she would probably be like yourself together mine I mean you see because we're wired like that we're

wired why do you think like that so even if we say that I think we like you said it's we won't be able to accept it if that happened but you don't need to come and Mel down to your wife you can go to a friend and meltdown if you need to you know don't suppress that please oh so you mean like have the meltdown but you can have it in a safe place like it doesn't have me I mean if your wife's okay with it and if you think that that relationship is okay it's like you know we're out of protein shake well that's a bit too much I mean for both genders that would be a bit too much then you need counselling

because I feel sometimes the problem is that with these things because there is I mean there's many things one I feel that there is what I'm saying that people have an archetype then that's in the psyche that they have this thing that for example the man should be the man and he shouldn't just kind of just lose it unless it's a one-off like let's say it was a funeral or something people excuse these situations but yeah but I feel that and then there is another issue which is sometimes trust issues that I feel that sometimes people would

feel that I don't mind opening up but then do I truly trust this person never to come back with it and not just that because I would feel that I don't truly there's very few people that I would truly trust to never use something against me otherwise most people even if they wouldn't but I don't know if I would truly trust them because I would think well mmm they might kind of use it against me at some point so I don't know I feel that this is something that bothers people like they feel that mmm do I really you know trust

his person I mean they trust him in other things but do they trust I mean taunting them with something and you see when you think you don't need to go to a person or to talk everything you can just sit alone and have a one-to-one in yourself oh my god just sitting in the corner you like so so so so now they kind of like self-reflection kind of oh I was thinking more schizophrenia but yeah [Laughter]

so okay people let's see some questions and then we'll wrap this up I know it's getting very late in so what somebody said say by saying I beat my husband up when he cried tears right so right cry-baby no way no I definitely I I have to always hold up that image so you're trying to say you've never cried in front of your wife now the question people would ask which

one no I don't you see the thing is I am very conscientious I won't lie even if I get emotional about if I about one is getting emotional but one is getting emotional in front of people I don't like ever to be emotional in front of people even if I think everybody gets emotional but in front of people I it doesn't matter who they are I wouldn't really like it if it happens ever happens but I wouldn't really want that to happen but I was considering maybe I

should take up counselling right so questions - what's the best way to deal with the husband who gives donnas to his wife I don't know you need to bring him on board and speak about why is he doing that to you and why you letting that happen to you but what a person if they're being very disparaging and kind of like I said sarcasm doesn't really I

don't like I don't think sarcasm is a true translation for things like puns and Donna because that's a lot more malicious where a song azzam is more it's humorous as well oh my yes so if somebody's being very disparaging towards you we're talking to them really fix it because yes you think well you have to try it means you can't just assume maybe it would help because you're by you being silent you just advocating it to just keep on going on so you need to talk about it and if if it doesn't work then you know take the next step from there at least

talk about it how would you know what's doing as an example what would a person say so let's say somebody's asked what would they say no I mean as suffering so put yourself in the victim the person is being very verbally kind of disparagingly abusive so they're kind of like knocking you down each time or what's the new useless year this year that or just making fun of things that you're always what I mean how would you act out what would you say the person you should do how would you say so okay so if somebody's doing that to me I would wait for them to calm down

let that pass once they're in a good mood say hey we need to talk and you can't do that you can't talk to me like that because once somebody is angry they're not going to reason or listen to you it's just gonna get worse so one of the things that I've learned is let it pass and then talk about it and then see if that doesn't make a difference then yeah next time they do it just don't answer them just walk away I would say as well that look these things are often when people are interacting to people

they often done in kind of stages so these things don't just like maybe in the odd scenario it might just be like not 200 but in most cases it begins with kind of drips and drops so people so one day somebody might insult someone and then what will happen is they they will kind of gauge your reaction now subconsciously that reaction would then either kind of reaffirm that that's okay you can do that or they might think oh well so I would advise that similarly maybe you can

judge the timing maybe that timing right there and then isn't the best time maybe it is you would have to judge it but I think you need to kind of put your foot down and just say no you don't need to be rude but you just need to be firm needs to say that look listen but seriously they need to be serious and say look I don't appreciate that don't don't do that again because if you don't set the boundary if you're not setting the boundary then you're part of the problem you know so you need to set that boundary and if you don't and if you can that you are part of the problem so when

you explore then remember it went both ways because you told the person that it was okay for them to treat you like that they did they have a channel like okay she can take it or he can take it so it's fine so you need to set that boundary in the very beginning and that's I follow someone and he's he's a relationship coach and that's what you usually posts and that's what I I think that it's in Pakistani culture we are not taught about boundaries I don't even know what a boundary is boundary so you

need many people say that's the ideal woman's scenario from Pakistan yeah they don't I mean I don't know I don't know I think a lot of women don't know what boundaries are so you need to set those boundaries in the quoting period if you think so or as things go on because sometimes the coding period is really you know all good the real thing begins

is the next you know you know what's interesting is I wonder what your thoughts are on this I'd like to get you thought there's a lot of this talk of like we're mentioning you know we sometimes women suffering and a very patriarchal society especially societies like the DC societies and other parts of the world's the Arab world and Muslim world predominantly is very patriarchal but yet we find in a lot of households

the especially when you look at slightly older kind of households that the way the children are kind of growing up and stuff that the woman the mother is it's kind of the stronger figure in the household that it's very matriarchal I don't like in a lot of the Pakistani households that I've seen and I've been familiar with the woman especially a little later on in life is a very it's like the power figure in the household it's very matriarchal so is that not a

contradiction see that's how it works that's how they tell you they say suck it up let them beat you let them do whatever after ten years of what are 15 years they're gonna be under your shoe so there that's the win-win but it's not like that you know it's it doesn't work like that and and when you're telling a woman to you know it's okay to get abused and belittled and humiliated take it take it take it what are you teaching your sons what are you teaching your daughters and then you're bringing up a generation full of I don't even know

what term I would use for that because if they're just messed up and now you've said before women are the cause for women's issues because you know we first need to raise better songs so we're not doing their job so we would say oh our son is perfect and our daughter-in-law has all the issues and on the other hand even with your daughter's your son our laws are perfect so what what what kind of message are you giving to two people out there you know so so and that's what happens like you said that kind of you

get the balance because you went through so much of your views are at a later age the women is in control and in charge of everything then they say all the men they calm down and they you know soften with age and you'll get your upper hand and stuff like that so so so that's the mindset ya know definitely very well because that is how we see it in a lot of these very traditional kind of settings under that somebody wrote under the shoe it's

one of the phrases nineteen said abusive relationships are so common because abuse is considered so casual you know let's say we were not on screen and we were just two friends we would be probably using abuse very easier like you know casually thinking that it's okay so when it becomes so casual and okay when you use it in a relationship it's not casually being used you know just to be clear when we're saying abuse

we mean swear words or we mean actual you see because I I differentiate between swear words and abuse being abusive so so for example I think even though even though it does depend who you're talking to obviously because you know you don't talk like that for example in front of children but that said I would feel that let's say you're with a person is with friends and they're talking casually they may use swear words very casually let's say but everybody knows they're not being abusive like if they say oh

you know god damn you know you know I got on the effing bus the other day or if they said you know bloody goddamn traffic oh if they said it doesn't mean they're being abusive to the other person usually no person can tell when you're being abusive - that's what I'm saying yeah yeah exactly that's what I'm saying because you it's become so casual using and swearing that that person all right to you ouf in this and because they're so used to using these words yes when they use it in the abuse it's you know you get that I mean I can't really

explain because they casual eyes the in normal speech they then early at the other person that makes a lot of sense right so people yep somebody said swear words does not yeah I agree I mean I I have said this before I know a lot of people disagree with me but I've said that swear words in and of themselves are not Haram but of losing someone is Haram so you see because a swear word is just a word isn't it's a taboo word which like the F word see we use it in English all the time I say ah you know

you know you know you know F in traffic it's not a sin to use these words but when you're swearing at someone that is called either in becoming someone so cool alright people well you know what I know we've held you up so late but I'm so glad you didn't really share your time with us and shared this advice with people for all our viewers first of all I just say if there's something you'd like to say you know before we wrap this

up we say you know maybe something a little note on maybe relationships or something if you'd like to any golden words of advice o which is for in the words of Charles Bukowski don't bother I just think just just try to be a listener don't judge people I mean this is just not you know because when I've I didn't personally experience that but I've seen people I've spoken to victims of narcissistic abuse and they told me

like I was talking to someone yesterday and she told me when I went and spoke with my family and my friends they thought I was crazy and that's sad because we are not aware we're not educated so when someone comes out do you hear them if you don't know about it educate yourself before you point fingers at them and nothing about general relationships I think that it's a one-on-one thing I just think one of the main things that lack today is empathy and and and and listening without you know saying anything you know if I want to say

something you're not waiting to give you a point of view right away so just there to listen so I think those are the two things that that really I don't see that amazing amazing words and I totally agree with everything you're saying and I would say to people as well that look just to reiterate to be very clear that any kind of abuse is utterly unacceptable I mean from an Islamic perspective from a humanitarian perspective from any from a civil perspective it is and you know something look it's more than anything what's important is you're actually harming yourself you notice that there's a

really fascinating hadith when you think about the prophet salaallah Salim said in a hadith that look that help you brother I mean this isn't just restricted to men equally includes women as well but in the hadith said help your companion for example your friend Solomon almas Roman that one saw a hawk vol enormous Roman that help your friend your brother whether he as an oppressor or oppressed and the Companions they said you know as oppressed mother's room we can understand you know help him he's

oppressed we should intervene we should vol how do we help him if his darling and the Prophet said prevent him from the zone from committing the zone but the fascinating the deeply fascinating thing about this hadith which many people don't see is you see because you're open him because him by perpetrating that room is firstly I mean even though he's this the victim he's he or she is actually hurting themselves you see you you actually like if you are

trapped like in this case let's say a person is in a an abusive relationship even if they are the abuser they are actually apart from the other person they are ruining their own lives as well like they are just further spiraling down this kind of rabbit hole and they this toxicity is no good for them they need to kind of think well obviously one it's utterly unacceptable what they're doing but even if it's it like you said imagine it's not physical abuse its verbal abuse or taunting or just disparaging breaking confidence why are they living in this kind of a

relationship like why not actually do them sell them selves and either fix it or just move away like the Quran says you know part ways the city of MBS and just part ways gracefully so yeah I mean I would seriously I you know I can't reiterate that enough because the amount of people that I speak to that are sometimes suffering and I get the fact that most relationships will be you know a certain stage be kind of like mundane but these are not mundane these are like in the negative these are just toxic it's like tension they just live in daily tension and you think why would you even live like that but yeah so

people and do seek help and if people want to reach out to use my wish what should they wish they reach out to you if somebody wants you know Instagram page and yeah you just can reach me out there what's the handle it's a wish are you gonna say I am

there you go I mean at my wish I am enough people you can reach out on Instagram a relationship advice relationship coach counseling if you want counseling but or just general connect if you just want to connect that's the person once again it's been an absolute pleasure sugar and for parting your time I know it's very you've you've been a vampire tonight not

got any sleep in Pakistan but for for a so it's okay but thank you so much for having me on board and and it was a lovely conversation shukran guys likewise as always it's been an absolute pleasure much love I will be back Friday Friday night we'll have another episode on the nature of the Koran we'll be discussing that I will have a guest from Pakistan actually dr.

Shahzad Saleem somebody very close to lamda subway and we'll be discussing the whole nature of the Quran and the preservation and things like this so cool people till then I'm going to put up my page if you haven't really liked it and you haven't already subscribed then god damn you people as always Salam o aleikum much over now