Ust Ismail Shaffi | Tablighi Rift, Teenage Promiscuity & Treaties for Palestine | MindTrap#39 | MALM

[Music] first of all let me just do a quick as always a sound check just to make sure

you can hear all the incoherence that i have to say let me just check bring up facebook alright you doing it people you're doing it let me just bring up my youtube people as well all right there i see you alright people look at that where's it gone here it is guys i take it the sound is coming through good loud and clear allahu akbar so

we have tonight a guest part-time somebody who is a coach and an inspiration to many young people very involved at a grassroot level ismail shafi from leicester let's bring him in with all of the awesome insights that he has to contribute to our shows

it's uh honor to be with the king of controversy i'm grateful and and julie honored likewise to to have you here and don't worry we're gonna impart some of this after today's episode you you'll probably be stained with this controversy as well now i'll be classed uh he's uh working with the one of the uh with the with

forget forget them it's the antichrist i represent it's it's it's sir lucifer himself so all right so ustad once again and hailing from leicester the midlands see people it's all happening in the midlands in the uk that's what we're talking about so right uh you're somebody i take it you've uh born and raised in leicester is that that's correct actually i was born in malawi but i was like six months

old so uh and somebody who uh you take a very keen interest in uh in sports or health not so much it doesn't have to be sports but health specifically and something you're very um you know outspoken about trying to get people to take care of themselves especially the muslim community um in addition to their deen they should be their good health so why the why the why this preoccupation with health obviously beside it being the obvious

taking care of yourself but do you feel that muslims lack in that sector is that what you i'm sure i'm sure i can remember many years ago i'm talking like probably 30 years ago i must have been in my teenage years and uh in the famous jami masjid in leicester there was a maulana for pakistan who came over and i could still remember his quote and he said um

and no fight no flight [Laughter] so yeah i mean you since you're involved in the religious uh sector as well to some extent as in trying to inspire religion dean uh i i don't mean you you don't have to be it's enough that you're from leicester to really be involved with the religious circles apparently we have over 300 maybe maybe more in our city seriously what the hell are they all doing i mean what goes on in leicester

right so in leicester those of you that don't know you have many of the heavyweight especially from the diopandi community uh the kingpins right there home to many of the kingpins including uh his royal highness sheikh riad al-haq himself you have mufti adam many of you have probably heard more of his son maybe through social media ibn adam and mufti uh

so is there i mean what's the intro group thing going on there are they is there harmony or is there rivalry going on i said that there's harmony there's harmony it's not like they got beef with each other um they've got their own ways of doing things and each are just doing their own kind of thing really so they've got their own kind of you've got that basic caliphate going

it's the classic scenario you know there's a there's a thing that when um i believe it was abuja for mansoor in his time somebody said to him that you know the umayyads because the umayyads had become re-established in andalus muslim spain so there was an attempt that he made to to kind of to get to get back to regain power and stability over there or not to regain but to initiate in that sense properly and so they had some assassination attempt and it failed

so the person got caught and he got you know that was the end of him so when he found out and the umayyads you know that day and age what they did is as a message to send it back uh what they did is the assassin they sent his head obviously they got to make a statement from from that day and age right so uh so people looked at mansoor and said like what are you gonna do about this you know like hmm so he said alhamdulillah

i said you know well what can we say god has placed a sea between us and them tell jello you know let them be a bit of that sour grapes you know once they're like well you know let it be let it be right but speaking of uh the religious circles the religious uh i'm generally speaking what's going on with this with with this health crisis

and the madrasa graduates i mean what is what is going on man have you tried to have you tried to promote this amongst them yeah i have tried to i think people before me even they've had special classes or swimming classes for the ulama clergy you know so they don't feel that you know you know swimming why swimming yes swimming yeah even swimming just so they don't drown

i think the brother done it with thinking it's a sunnah as soon as a good sport uh but they tried to arrange separate ones for the ulama so you know they they may feel ashamed coming or women you mean to separate them from women uh hide out the place only for for the muslim brothers they're like well they're like is it is it even fun if we go when there's the women and it's gonna be segregated what's the point they're like what's the point of being saved in swimming if it's only going to be men [Laughter]

no but i mean you know there is a huge issue with with the okay this is a stereotype that the general maulana you know he's somebody who loves his biryani he loves his uh halwa you know you know this is a stereotype isn't it this you know people say oh you know karisa and his halwa and then you see some of these pot belly kind of maulanas um i mean why isn't this uh why do you feel there isn't that people are not

drawn towards having this kind of health because when you think about it historically obviously people lived in very different times i understand that but there was also a see one is just the day and age was tough in the past which it was but there was also a kind of culture where there was an understanding that it was you know that people wanted to have this kind of physique or they wanted like imam malik himself uh would make a point that every single day he would eat a certain amount of meat just for him and he said he explained it he said it's for my posture

he said because i see that when people when when a person has a strong physical posture there is an awe to him and he said and when people either have nas that they will through him they will also have that kind of or for knowledge because he's the person speaking and talking and teaching whereas if he's very just uh you know where people kind of look down on him then they will look down upon knowledge and and you when we've got so many examples of this in our literature of different

scholars you know this whole having a warrior physique having this kind of you know there's a lot of this in our literature but why do you think there is this huge this huge gap though in the real world or is that just here do you think that's just here it's not uh in other parts of the world what's your thoughts um generally i think the scholar clergy are quite unfit you know illa mashallah you know some of them uh usually i think it's the lack of the understanding the importance of keeping fit even they probably know

the sunnah of eating you know one third at least keep it for air for food for water what have you uh obviously we knew from the sierra that the puzzle had some new archery he knew wrestling he knew uh how to obviously swordmanship et yeah these things are very difficult even things like horse riding it's very demanding physically yeah and the famous story of him and uh wrestling yeah yeah right there so obviously he knew some kind of martial art as well that was the martial art at the time

so you need some obviously he must have learned the art of wrestling and the other things as well so in the day we're living now and everything's fast food our food is all processed uh our asian diet is probably one of the most unhealthiest diets which is not sustained for this country uh and you just pile it on and when you start i don't know how it's in the daryl room whether you're quite active but uh once you come out of that environment and you're probably at work teaching uh whatever they're doing and they don't show any kind of importance that we need to look after

this body allah has given us uh but that may be the main reason religious things aside it's people just want to look good anyway i mean and you know even like you could go to a normal person and you don't really need to bring up i mean it's great to bring up examples from the sunnah and from the quran and from the hadith about taking care of yourself but a person would just know that look i i ought to take care of myself you know it's like it's like common knowledge

uh but yeah i mean i is it just that it becomes a lazy culture or does it is it just is too hard work you know to to take care of one's physique or or is it just our dissi culture is that this culture very is that to blame it's partly to blame of our diets not the best diet uh i'll be honest in this ramadan uh sorry not the wrong than the lockdown i was uh 12 and a half stone twelve and a half gyms being yeah twelve and a half stone i'm not very tall five foot seven so uh but that's that's not heavy though twelve

and a half yeah yeah twelve and a half but i was carrying a bit of fat with me as well so even though i was working out in the gym uh so the gym has been closed down i thought what should i do i said i'd go on a shred diet so i worked it all out all the macros the proteins etc how much i need to take three months i went on a shredding and uh yeah lost about just over a stone so it's all to do with the your mindset uh and like i said our food asian food is one of the unhealthiest food but it's incredibly tasty

yes the taste is tasty but it's the most unhelpless unfortunately i mean and one mawlana he goes to me [Laughter] a lot of doubt it's all about the biryani it's all about the biryani the lamb biryani i've got to say it's that has to be from all of the biryanis i think my personal favorite but yeah there is this um this this thing

but yeah so with with with all that going on this whole right we've slightly lost you studs with other your back you're back you're back we slightly lost you there the biryani almost interrupted us but so tell us you know leicester is uh heavily muslim he's got a strong muslim kind of concentration just like birmingham as well but however in leicester do you feel that there is i just this is

just a quick note i just wanted to kind of touch because there's a strong i feel this much more of a religious atmosphere or am i just is that just to me it appears that way or do you feel that that's a fair statement yeah we do have a religious environment yeah which is which is good uh i'd say that yeah you've got top of my head three established looms but it's not just the like i mean that's obviously part of it but i feel that there's a strong like birmingham has probably i could be wrong but it might actually have the largest

muslim communities within the uk within any city uh but and i know proportionately speaking leicester is similar like if you're looking at the ratio there's a similar percentage of muslims i assume in leicester as well but uh it's just that birmingham has a larger population overall but you see i don't get a religious religious feel necessarily about birmingham there's i mean there's tons of masjids but uh and you get certain pockets and you know you get big masks and stuff but i see it more cultural but i get this kind of impression that

that there's a lot more perceived religiosity in the leicester muslims maybe because of i this is the impression i get like with let's say the gujarati community muslim quadratic community i get that there's a lot more of the um the perceived the apparent religiosity the madrasas the madrasa students you see all the hearts you see all the beards or is this or is um is it just that appears to me because as a slight outsider i mean what are your thoughts

you're kind of right in the sense that uh there is a lot of people mashallah well practicing the outward some nuts if you want to call them uh i wouldn't call him [Laughter] like you say like i know a few of my friends their women wear the niqab the veil and they say when we go on holiday they just whip it off so who are you wearing the veil for

you know is it just to show society that we're religious and the same way can go to the thobe or or whatever you might be wearing uh so sometimes it just becomes like a uniform like if you don't wear the jubba you're not religious anymore you're going to have the league brothers knocking on your door you know let's bring this brother back so sometimes certain things have been over emphasized you know yeah uh whereas rather than our character how we are interacting with other people uh it's just become you just be judged on

your exterior as this guy got a beard you know a big fist beard or a big chip you know he's on the dean he's he's reaching agenda guy's not got this he he's going astray you know we need to bring him back don't look at his character don't look at his morals his values what he's about you know just judging unfortunately has come to that mindset do you feel do you feel as well that you know this kind of uh when you have that community that kind of community if i can use that that way you've got [Music] people living very closely i take it you're but uh

you're from this your gujarati indian from the same community yeah so does it become then a perspective uh sorry a phenomenon where you see people are just policing each other this kind of panopticon you know you have this what jeremy bentham and other people they gave this um philosophical concept of we could create a prison which would be designed in a particular way that we're actually the prisoners would end up policing the other because there would be transparency he kind of came up with this model they didn't build it in the end but his

whole purpose was it would reduce the state's job on observing them but the inmates would end up because they're all observing each other they wouldn't be up to stuff so it's this was this kind of panopticon this this kind of concept so what you get is a community that is maybe themselves not so sold on an idea some people like you said this this lady now i i'm familiar with this kind of idea of like women that they will wear the hijab or the nikab in this case only

in that community but when they're out of that community they want worried um now to me i i mean i don't have a problem with whether they worry or don't worry but to me you see that feels like you see there's an there's a certain amount of pressure from that community that they have to conform to it's not necessarily that they might believe that i have to do this but i have to do it whilst i'm in this particular environment and i find that quite like it's almost like a self-policing

mechanism um yeah i don't know if you feel that pressure yeah that's that's how it's become unfortunately um it's like you say it's just become an outward religiosity so it's it's artificial in a way so you'd think masha'allah alhamdulillah but when you get when you find out you don't go looking for it but what they them those themselves will tell you that this is what happens then you think it's just artificial who are you doing these actions for is it to please the people or allah so then these people have to question

themselves yeah so definitely they're this artificial religious did you have do you ever get any of that because you're part of a community within that from that community do you get people kind of saying to you or having to justify why you don't have a long beard or why you're not wearing a soap or i i used to be very heavily involved in the blue jam artwork you know uh

he has done a lot of uh good uh worldwide especially when it started when people were really far from the dean didn't know the basics and he and it caused a revolution and it changed a lot of people's lives i have to say those of you that don't know i have mentioned this before that the bleak that going on public was a pivotal moment in my life that that would actually change the direction of my entire life you know life trajectory and i'm not overstating that you see when i as a 16 year old kid when

i went on jamaat i went for 10 days but i ended up because of the amount of it became this huge thing this huge ish i mean just my parents were dead against the blinky gematia so when i um decided to go i wanted to go i should really and you know this something just very quickly the thing was all really character i used to like the character like they had very good manners very good amazing characters some of the people that were involved and and we were drawn to that character and because some of my friends were going on jamaat it seemed

fun and i wanted a girl but my parents were said that now they these these are hobbies you don't care with them but i wanted to go and then i accepted it i said that you know i'm not gonna go and i went to the local masjid and my friends were there i mean my mates and they were all kind of like they brought their their clothes and brought their bags and and you know everybody's in the spirit of we're going away for it was christmas ten days and i'm just left out and i thought you know what effie i'm going as well so i went home got my stuff put in and i just ran away

but this became such a huge uh play it gave such a fiasco kind of like obviously as you can imagine my parents were very strict and um i ended up getting into a lot of trouble for that i was chipped out of my house and stuff like this afterwards and but this whole struggle what it did was it shaped a particular direction in my life that i you know i couldn't imagine at the time like at the time i just thought i just want to be with my friends and it's that spirit and i didn't realize how much of a profound effect this would have

even later on when i chose to study the only reason it was possible was because i had taken that step previously with the leaky jamaat and my family kind of felt that you know even if we stop him he'll still do it and so but at the table have had in my early days a very profound impact on my life and i'm very grateful for that so yep sorry you were saying yeah yeah yeah so yeah he had a great impact on my i came from the area of high fields as well notorious for his crime you know uh

there's two sides of high fields one uh where there was predominantly the afro-caribbean the community that i i grew up mostly on that side and there was a lot of crime that came with our afro-caribbean bedroom at that time so the mandem so yeah i was moving in different circles and uh so yeah this the league did help you know put your kind of some of your priorities on uh on track and like you said it just kind of it's like the seclusion you go away i feel that

they you see what they have for a certain um for a certain people going through a certain stage in life it's amazing like there are certain people that need to be kind of they need to isolate from the environment they need to just be removed and taken extracted and extra rehab exactly exactly it is rehab for a certain level like you have to the person has to be at a certain level where they're struggling with they don't have an immense knowledge of islam they're very distanced and they go through this rehab rehab

process where they're being taught things like uh you know let's go over the salah read it to me why don't you read these short surahs of the quran they live in a mask they attend all the prayers they do this for like 10 days um they're encouraged on like you have to stand up and give your the bayan and you know it's it's really nerve-wracking like you have to stand up and chair number and but what happens is there is a point where the table because it doesn't the process doesn't like there's no that basic level is brilliant for people at that level

but then there's no level one level two level it's just always that like if you develop a bit further it can become a huge hindrance that's what i felt i don't know if you share that experience yeah it's you just get to a level and thereafter it's even if you can't go to study became a maulana there's countless yeah people who became maulanas afterwards or what have you and and that's it and you're limited to a certain level and you only talk within the six points yeah and that's it so you are kind of limited

uh so i have to say that uh but then going back to my own story where in the year 2000 when you know there's a lot of things going on in my life and like i said i just needed some time out and even my dad goes why don't you go four months four months yeah four months i never spent 40 days before all over the sudden boom four months [Laughter]

so i could be honest it was interesting it was kind of hard as well you know going to india shipped off to india oh you went to india it's been like yeah 40 days here 140 days just to get kind of uh to the routine then after that the next was shipped off to india and it was interesting you know you just first you know see all the poverty see all the first thing you soon as you land in india you just the stench we ever come to yeah so it was interesting and basically cut long story short after the four months you kind of realize you know where's my life going what i need to do and you kind of

brainwashed in the way as well yeah that i have to make this my life my purpose of my life because they fit the entire quran and seerah into this like if there's any incident in the quran they'll just say see subhanallah you know going in the path of allah and they just fit every story into that like they could be a story where a companion walks out of his house and goes to the next village and they go subhanallah see walking in the past

a lot of the incidents are to do with jihad and obviously they will interpret any kind of anything they will just fit it it doesn't matter matter what the incident is they'll just reshape it and they'll just go there it is so yes so i spent a lot of time in jamaica i was active with them for about obviously quite active uh 12 years 12 to 13 years 12 years yeah i went to a lot of countries yeah and then i came to a point where i just couldn't do it anymore you know

i went to one remember cyprus was the last country i went to the the the there was no baths uh no so we have to take yeah there's no in the masjid there's no oh in the masjid okay okay yeah in the masjid yeah it's in cyprus uh they weren't designed for germans to come uh so you're having you know like a bath once a week and i suffer from uh like acne oily skin and oh and i'm getting all these spots everywhere and even the toilets were hard and and it's i'll be honest it's mujahida you get me and then you've got six people some of you never seen in your life and they've got these odd habits that you know you got to accustom them

accustomed to them for 40 days yeah you know what it is these kind of things of life survival skills or you know having to be having to adjust to awkward situations or putting up with people these things in and of themselves can be to be they can be an invaluable experience because it's a life skill isn't it how do you dealing with people is difficult so you're learning that but i feel the overall mission the philosophy you see like you saying you're doing it for 12 years

it i think very soon way before 12 years it starts you've outgrown it like you need more than what they have to offer and uh okay yeah you're right you're right um but it does kind of keep you grounded in certain things you know you obviously show importance to certain things etc outward you know submits et cetera but uh then after when i when i i just said to myself i can't do this anymore i don't want to do this anymore now why am i doing i was questioning myself why am i doing this because once you don't spend your 40 days it's like it's a guilt trip yeah you know it's a

coat it becomes a cult yeah yeah yeah in certain senses yeah yeah i've made it into lack of culture as well so uh so yeah so then i questioned myself why am i doing this do i do i want to do this then if i don't do it but why doing it just for to please people and i said to myself no i don't want to do this anymore then that's it they're not slowly you know kind of swayed away all the time there's you know visiting your house you know this this this and i remembered i wanted to get into boxing and uh the guy came to my house and he said look you know slowly you're gonna do this you want to do this then

you'll be kind of straight you know he's just trying to say you're gonna go straight yeah so uh and in my head i was saying to myself you can tell me what you want i'm going to be doing boxing yeah so i went on the journey the the the journey was to fight have an amateur fight but things didn't work out i did get amateur registered but it's a long story but things didn't work out but i did spa regularly and got to the amateur level so yeah that was that yeah and what just to clarify when i said that the thing about them being a cult what i mean by that is that this

when a person no longer actively participates in something like that it has an active participation like you go out on you go on jamaat you do your 40 days do 10 days do three days when you cease to do this you are then this kind of uh one guilt trip but then there's this kind of boycotting this kind of this it and it's not restricted to just this group there's many groups that do this kind of method but you can feel the pressure it's not something you can't feel you can feel you know the looks the people talking oh my god you know this person's gone astray and and surprisingly this happens with

many things and i'm not just picking on publication but i'm just giving an example that even with learning knowledge there's a huge discouragement to learn knowledge and i remember when when i wanted to study as well uh many people kind of told me that loco studying is bad like they say you know knowledge like look the shaitaan went astray he had knowledge you know you're better off just doing service in the path of allah going on jamaat and hope this is the real asl yeah you know bringing people to allah doing dawah

learning knowledge is you know it's about the nerfs and it's about this and but that's surprising because it's knowledge of islam but there wasn't this uh but you know speaking about since we've ended up speaking about the leaky german i am very surprised to see that this was one group that i felt would never fall into politics like as in internal bitter division politics you know they're this group that used to one thing i did used to totally rate them about was their good character which i still i

mean i haven't been that much in touch with them for the recent years but still that was something that still i remember till today the good character personal akhlaq and the fact that they used to say that look everybody's a muslim you know we don't differentiate we don't you know it doesn't matter if you're pretty it doesn't matter if you're the ubunti or al-hadith we're all muslim you know they had this very spirit this inclusive spirit and i could never see that they would fall victim to this kind of division of infighting which has happened now

what the hell is that about man so yeah so obviously spent spending what 13 years with the group with the sister leaky jamaat even though by that time i've uh started doing other things when the split did happen it was it was heartbreaking because obviously like you said it's it's one group that on a global level where they've all born been on one platform so uh and then he became two groups so he became assad he said we should keep an amir who is the great grandson of maulana

elias the founder of the team is the great grandson yeah he's a great grandfather for the viewers who are not familiar what had happened was the initial division is to do with leadership should the leadership be confined to an individual or a collective council ashura this is the concept that split it up wasn't it so maulana saad was the and the key main centers were both like you had india you had pakistan uh india is obviously the main way but you had pakistan was an active player as well like raven and so this is what's led to the split then isn't it part of

yeah yes yes so so the the division was you either have one amir one in assad or you have a shura that runs it and they're from different from pakistan from india and some probably bangladesh even so that's the division so they then they call themselves so there's no one particular leader but the shura decides council within them i think yeah council and then you've got one assad's camp but they said this he's the army so yeah he became so then he became inviting started some of the members started to call these group

of assad the sadiani's and uh and vice versa there must have been name calling but it actually ended up these were known to be the most like kindest loving people yeah it ended up in fist fighting in bangladesh there was actually deaths you know hell i didn't hear of that okay whoa yeah yeah footage of uh some people got beaten to death from by two parties but i think it's kind of mellowed down now okay and now it's just become too cumbersome you know you had uh was it [ __ ] abdul wahab is he the he was

the elder from raven from pakistan what what camp was he so this the ali mushroom saying he was with them okay okay there's other rumors are saying that he never specifically said who he was he was encouraging people to go back to this abu dhabi is he still he's still alive or he's a pastor he's passed away now okay that's the way yeah a lot of mercy on him okay yeah so okay right damn but all this controversy fighting police being called even in the uk there was so many issues i heard about in london i

think they had some markers or something and yeah the london marcus there was some kind of like you know just crazy um but wow it just goes to show if all good things come to an end [Laughter] all right so how did did it impact the looms in leicester like uh shaykh riyad al harks or mufti adams or these are the sheikh salim place yeah so so so when this split happened uh the spiritual father of many of them

he was closely aligned with czech zakaria khandavi obviously he was the the nephew of sheikh diaz the founder of the league so when it all kind of happened he took sides with mana assad ah did he yeah yeah he took sides he said look there's many things i know behind the scenes that you don't know about and uh basically he was groomed to be the next leader one on assad are you grooming you nothing [Laughter] so yeah so he should be next he should be

he was he should be the next right for the leader basically so you had a lot of uh people who are upset and what happened was there was three four main these two main ones everybody knew in the circle was sheikh ibrahim devla and sheikh ahmed both of them were i've heard of them too actually you heard of them yeah so both of them happen to be gujarati and not only gujarati baruchi so from gujarat you have another state either surat or bruce okay

so they came from baruch so when it all kicked off blackburn marcus from my research they came a contingent of them to doosbury the main markers in uk say what's happening the two main musrus have come left the markers they left for their reasons yeah and they said we need to follow this momentum that was going on and the only reason to my uh research is the blackburn people or the people contingency happen to be baruchis themselves gujarati baruchis

whether these two mawlana ibrahim or ahmad i couldn't see them jumping up and down to say we need to do something about because the baruchi they were jumping up and down from the marcus so that that was happened then you had those other things other people wanted to benefit from the split that become leaders etc etc i don't want to start name calling but yeah what happened now in in england you have got about i think five marcuses uh so the certain people who wanted to

split the alim shura they managed to persuade the leaders of these marcuses that we should break away from jews believe now because jews bring aligned itself with stayed with nizamuddin is maulana saath yeah okay so the the the main justice statement is detached away so that's what happened certain individuals and scholars got involved and they broke them away people this is the politics that goes on within the muslim world

[Laughter] but yeah there's it's a whole i think the right book on on the split but um but uh then you had molar yusuf mona so now they was like whoa what's happening why is he getting involved he's not a tablighi even though he was from uk the first jamaat that went out for four months moana yusuf was okay in the 1960s apparently and i had a car accident on the way to people it's a sad memory but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so so apparently he was part so the guy

he's not he's he's more sufi inclined why why has he got to how can he put his two pence worth into obviously he's got a big following it's a lot of this kind of set of scholars that followed him so our leicester jamie moss followed uh accepted sheikh yusuf matala's opinion uh and uh after that split they had a one on assad actually came to uk okay he came to leicester yeah oh right i do remember there were some photos going around of maulana saad in the uk yeah yeah yeah so he came to uk it came to leicester

so and apparently took the other side took the is he also the the teacher of uh our beloved uh i'd love to get him on uh mind trap if you're in touch with him i i i know people who know him so maybe that could be possible oh wow that would

be amazing yeah do you feel that this this mindset of the clergy generally that you've got the kind of like the madrasa graduates what you see a lot in leicester basically um can this change here in the uk because can it just get to becoming a bit normal or will because it is like even though it's not um sometimes stamped out but it is a very cult-like mentality you know this is how we dress this is what we do this is our thing

these are our bazook this is how we take the deen can this become morph into an indigenous british islam do you think or or is it too young um i've not yet seen a black [ __ ] come over from another country let alone uk uk you know you we got sheikhs from mauritania i don't know mali nigeria islam has been there longer than any of the dardlooms from india yeah so we've not we've not been exposed

to any black shirt uh forget black shirt we hardly get any arab sheikhs from the middle east like recently i don't know if he was one of your teacher sheikh is it you know after reading his uh biography you'll be whoa this guy's an incredible mum uh there must be many like him obviously we've not heard of or etcetera but you know if you get if you get people like from the arab world let's say mashae or from these other places turkey or somewhere uh even the africans but i suppose with the africans they could say well that's

you know maybe they don't grow so much uh some you know their beards are not that long but these other arabs you that will come they will be clean-shaven or or they will have a beard probably yours probably even a bit shorter than yours now that will be a problem for people who yeah because they'll be like here comes the great shekel hadith and he'll come in wearing a suit [Laughter] yeah this is this is the he's got suit and he's got like a probably grade two or great three beard and they'll be like all these years you've been telling us that uh it's haraam

and this and etc it won't go down too well that's it and then they'll be like well even mufti abu leith has a longer beard than that but he has an earring and a fade what is it with the fades man why do they hate the fades because back in the days only our jamaican uh west indian

veteran would do the fades nobody would do that if i had this hacker yeah what if 30 years ago my dad would took me a house but i mean what do you want people to have like just one length here that that would mean you have no hairstyle that just be like you just grow out you're here so certain things like keep the length of your trousers above the ankle these kind of things even for my minimum uh you know knowledge i have that even in hanafi fit apparently in xiaomi it's

it's uh you know there's nothing wrong with it it's there obviously you're wearing it of course of course yeah so and and if anything even in the other thick they're quite lenient so uh this like i said it's too much they don't give the opinions different opinions look there is this opinion if you want to take it there's this but there's this opinion as well you know there's nothing wrong with it you would find that the scholars doing it as well and like cries with the beard etc there's many multiple reasonings and uh opinions but the thing is you tend to get told only one

side of of of the story have you ever sat down had any kind of these i know you you are a part-time hatib have you you know with the local ulama have you had any of these kind of discussions or run-ins in this sense or these are local to you leicester kind of so get them on minecraft by the way get them on my trap i would love to have shaykh mine trap

some of their students i'm in touch they're mawlana's themselves and i tell them they some of them just say yeah yeah we can understand where you're coming from and then some of them like recently uh i put our message out on eid okay our ease there's no decoration happening i can remember so i the way i wear did it i wrote it i go growing up here in uk in the 80s it was more exciting for me uh christmas at school than eat because in school we were having parties we were dressing up and there were decorations up and

you ate nice food and those games and it was exciting for for christmas uh when you're young and whereas on eat time you wore nice clothes you ate a biryani or whatever and that was it you know might get some a pound coin here and there but there was nothing else exciting about it so the kind of uh message i was pointing out is there's no harm because when the prophet saw came to madina they were celebrating these two days and he asked him what are these it goes and saw that days we used to celebrate these days and the prophet peace be upon him said to the fact that allah has replaced it with the eid you know

rejoice and celebrate these our two days of rejoicing so surely they must have rejoiced in in a manner uh doing things you know celebrating music so yeah yeah yeah [Laughter] i always found that strange that god would say you know what if he's playing the drum ortika if he touches the guitar throw him in hell

[Laughter] but okay but is that what you mean more of a celebratory they should celebrate eid more in a festival like mine decorate your houses you know even if it means the outside of your houses make people know it's easy the only celebration is the leicester city council they pull up some lights this year because of the lockdown they never put it up uh in the east so even there's no eid knows every year they do it so um it's sad there's no if a nun if you will live in a within the non-muslims they would not know whether you have you're celebrating any anything i said

it's a remains of dawah as well you can tell them what this is this is why we celebrate it etc etc and uh so i put this message down and one mawlana goes back to me and he goes you know what is a fine line you know you could be imitating the christians there's a very fine line here what next uh what you want to eat that would be interesting a palm tree

this this dawah thing this is something you're uh you know you're very you speak on quite a bit uh isn't what what do you think should people be giving that one here in the uk should we as muslims i personally think they should i know i know you disagree i've seen some of the clips and i'm not anti obviously uh i you know it's like adam kilwick i had him on recently on minecraft and he said to me i to be honest i was kind of uh surprised that he that he said that some people understood my message to mean that uh i didn't ever think anybody would

understand that from what i was saying so he said that some people were assuming that i'm saying islam is a bad thing and anybody who converts to islam they've done a bad thing i i i was quite surprised because i thought i mean that that's not even what i said so i don't know why anybody would understand that from it but i did feel that that word does more harm to islam here definitely than it does good i mean when you say because when people say let's do that how how does how does one do that because what do they do all right

there's different obviously there's people doing different methods um some people have the stalls out on the city center giving out explaining etc basics of islam that's one way other ways some people uh i don't know they just have like an islamic awareness day or something like that i mean okay that that i i think is is is an absolutely good idea like things like not this latter one of saying like let's say there's a certain place and you wanna have an islamic awareness day like in a university in a college in a school in some kind of an institution we're gonna create an awareness about a

religion i think that that's magnificent there's nothing wrong with that and i forget wrong i think that's very positive very good i would fully support that the other things about stalls or standing just saying out you know just sh raising your voice shouting saying look oh islam is the truth islam is the truth take this leaflet islam is the truth i mean does this really i mean does it really explain islam yeah i don't think the shouting notes or the you know say yeah yeah come you know the stuff but there are certain people

where they're probably just looking for the certain answers they're halfway there sure they probably already believed as a creator there should be only one creator certain things missing in the puzzle so by you having a stall or you doing something you know they found you now you've made you've been able to answer some of the questions that they were able to answer and boom before you know it you know that's what he's looking for so more than shouting and screaming you know just show your presence sure like let's say you have a stall and it has a sign you know even if you take away the shouting um

it has a post uh and you've got these people standing there um like they do in a lot of these city centers and they give out leaflets and um stuff like this isn't this a very modern thing do we think because people in the past muslims in the past would never would never have done this kind of dawah i mean i i'm not aware of actually muslims doing any dawah in the past i don't know if they've ever when did muslims ever do that in the past i i've never been i'm not i mean i know in the time of the prophet the prophet

spoke about islam and the companions because they are around the prophet spoke of his message but once islam expanded somewhat after the prophet's lifetime let's say during the reign of bani umayya uh once the kingdoms are set up i've never heard of dawah like ever being conducted like who conducted the dhawa what did those people actually do i'd be curious to know like did they used to you know they wouldn't go and just stop people and tell them uh you need to become muslim and stuff like i mean i'm not familiar with this kind of stuff

so [Laughter] i don't actually think that that you see i think right i think that people in the past were much more you see it's strange because when we look at the past today when we look at anything we're looking through our own lens yeah like how we see the world religion today [Music] people for the most part are very inflexible when it comes to religion today you know

they're not like religion today is a very private matter and it's to do with really your own connection with the divine and the afterlife and stuff like this that's rituals and that you see in the past religion was more about your well-being in this world so today it isn't like today people are not worried about are the crops gonna grow because god is not unhappy with us this this isn't

you know it's like um what somebody had had written an author where he said you that he said uh he said that what imams and rabbis and priests had been trying for uh and religious leaders have been trying for you know two millennia two thousand years within one to at most 200 years at the moment investors and bankers and scientists came on the field they've resolved those issues like this uh

people no longer will seek god for things like crops and stuff like food and i mean they'll be grateful to god but they're not going to be like uh like let's say like they might make dua to god but they're not worried about this curse that oh my god god is going to curse us and we're not going to get rain this year but you know the the the weather specialists will tell them there will be rain you know they will tell them we've got these chemicals that will kill the you know pesticide it'll kill the pests it will i mean bad crops still happen but people for the most part

feel quite safe in the hands of of the world specialists so religion is now to do with the akhira is to do with our personal conscience it's not to do with oh if i you know i think his god is more powerful i should go to his god and in the past people were doing that so i feel that when they saw success and they saw muslims were successful because you know they were the rising empire so the neighboring people did feel that look actually you know what i think his guard works my god is obviously failing

i'm gonna go with his guard and and and i think this these kind of things this is how religion would spread so easily in the past it wouldn't spread like that today today people are very cautious about religion and um they don't not interested in institutionalized religions and generally i mean there are some people like you said who are prepared but what are yours atheism is on the rise so if anything it's probably fastest growing ideology yeah i i could i i could agree with that that

i think atheism is definitely um i mean don't you think that people of religion are responsible for that like as in the clergy for the rise of atheism to some extent to some extent not for the whole thing i wouldn't say there to blame but i would say they're not very well equipped to answer some of the some of the questions that you know even muslim well now this called ex-muslims the they've left the fold of islam and they've had some basic probably prove to me how

god exists and i don't think the clergy's uh equipped to even answer someone you know you need some kind of if not training so you must have read some kind of books or etc uh if you can't answer them if they're thinking what the maulana doesn't know who's gonna tell me you know and uh so i think that's a feel they they need to equip themselves with more uh than ever before definitely i mean there's this there's the difficult questions that atheists put to you like the problem of evil you know all of these things like how you know prove to me the existence of god

and so on but also you see this when i said that they are some to some extent responsible it's because they okay one is fake not being able to answer the questions okay that's one point but what about the stuff they are doing proactively that stuff is also chasing people away from the dean like they have made religion into this very you know this small airtight um like a very controlling set of rules

um they've shrouded it in culture they've you know you mentioned earlier on a particular dress a particular look there's a lot of these things scare people away from religion as well yeah well you got a point there where if you're trying to fit everybody in one box then it's it's it's not going to be you know for the for the how can i explain it the dynamics now what the youth or the teenagers are facing is totally different to what i was probably to some degree maybe but on a on a fitnah level on

terms of what they're going through now it's much more worse than what we probably went through 20 30 years ago so the challenges and obstacles they're facing now and if you're going to say let's just do the same thing our islamic community done 30 years ago carry on then that same model's not gonna work and like you said it would eventually uh take people away from coming to the masjid et cetera so definitely we need to evolve evolve into different things different activities different initiatives and and like you said islam is not just

about how you dress you know there's there's more to it than than i know that because you work very closely with the younger generation your uh boxing coach as well and you're you know they're obviously speaking to you about the issues this statement of yours i i agree with you but i'm curious on your take of it that when you said look the younger people today are exposed to a greater level of fitnah now fitna can mean many things for different people but what are some of these things that you would um that you feel that day today the greater

challenges that young people have today what what are some of these greater challenges just to you know unpack some of them yeah so for example in high fields we've got a big problem with drug drugs drug dealing you've got a kid you've got kids on the block 19 20 they're driving the best cars around yeah they could be earning easily 500 pound a day or whatever it is but to be fair drug dealing has been around for a few decades now yeah for a while yeah a few decades but yeah the way it was like in my time i'll be honest the asian community wasn't really involved there was only a pocketful

and everybody knew this guy was a drug dealer yeah there was only a handful you'd probably count them on one hand now well every there's loads of people doing it yeah so it's just you've lost count okay uh so it's become more accessible uh it's become much easier uh why go to work when you can easily earn money in a much quicker way uh so that's one aspect sean drugs okay what else drugs the the level of um in terms of a person wants to do zina now it's much easier

than the person what he had to go through trying to say there you go people what are these easy ways for so some of our viewers don't do them [Laughter] where are these easy hangouts so we know which ones to avoid that's the rise in social media you know you've got the snapchat and this chat and god knows all these different apps and uh it's just made it such more accessible to contact the the opposite female like the opposite female if yeah

yeah so so before you you know school college or whatever if you met um that's it you know let me just ask just to unpack this slightly is it just the fact that somebody will have a relationship that is the really uh terrible thing here or what what are you saying it's the fact that there's um you know that there's that they don't take relationships seriously i mean just to um what exactly is the is it just the fact that now somebody

it's easier because we've got phones in social media obviously when we were teenagers mobile phones did not exist so you know now you can just say hey we'll meet up and and you can arrange to have sex but putting religion aside sex obviously let's say for young people when they're of a certain age that's legal it is it's natural like people are going to be inclined to that anyway is that the great great problem in and of itself or is there is there more angles to this uh do you understand understand the question yeah yeah

yeah you're trying to say it's more accessible to have a sexual relationships now uh no not that i accept it is but you're when you said that you see you said that there's much greater fit man challenges challenges for young people today so i'm curious when you said well they have access to zina or much easier access to having sex uh i'm curious that is that the challenge in itself or do you mean from that just are you just speaking because in islam there is no nikka therefore this is haram and that is the great problem

or is it that there's more angles to this yeah it's more angles in the sense that where fornication is so easily accessible than it was 30 years ago but i mean what's the one may ask what is the problem with sex being accessible because like obviously you're going for before marriage okay so this only are we just saying the only problem is just this one well there isn't an islamic act there isn't an islamic contract you see because i would in some things agree this is why i'm trying to see if we would

uh maybe see eye to eye on this issue because i don't think the issue personally is i don't see that the like people having access to sex is a challenge i i would think that's natural human behavior and it's just that people are as opportunistic as their opportunities obviously we didn't have that opportunity of instagram when we were younger so people do so i i can't naturally they're gonna use it because they have it i would feel the challenge isn't them having access to sex that that's

natural but i feel the challenge is that they struggle then with having with maintaining a relationship because they're constantly being bombarded with greater gratification like let's say they do hook up with a girl and they think oh wow but then now when they go back on insta there's 50 of the girls that are even more prettier now oh and even vice versa it could be with girls and guys like a girl now thinks oh that guy's amazing but now she thinks well oh my god this guy's even more amazing

or you know so what it's doing is what i see as the challenge isn't necessarily that oh they've had sex i see that i can understand all people might say spiritually islamically this is you know it's not halal i get that masala but i'm saying what i see as a greater challenge to them is actually than being able to be stable in a relationship i don't know if if you do i don't does that make sense what i'm seeing i can see where you're coming from in the sense that they're not equipped to be a husband or a wife

you know it's they've not learned the the full responsibilities and what goes with the package uh in that sense um and like you said it's it's become who do you go for i can get someone better this one's it's easy easily to access someone else and like you say he's just trying different suites then that's what they're gonna end up doing because look let's be honest people will say real talk just the issue of being having access to much more sexual let's say

certain entanglements people will just say look you just people will just say look you're just hating because let's be honest who doesn't want that you know it's from the incerni fitra to want that it's not like you know it's like saying just because people have more access to money in a particular place um a particular country everybody would want more access to money everybody would want more access to these kind of entanglements or when i say everybody i think definitely men for the most part and and many women too um so so i'm just seeing it from

you know from a very realistic perspective that what are the actual problems here is it just you know people who are not from that generation and we're just hating on them are we just saying yeah you know damn we didn't have this yeah it's it's like the studies out there where the teenagers now are suffering from depression etc just because they're not getting enough likes on the instagram so there's this perception of how they look how they appear on social media

and what people think of them yeah so to do with this fakery image and a lot of this catfishing going on so the the pressures on them is on a different scale it is yeah i i so agree with you i mean i've that this thing of having a virtual profile that is so larger than life you know this whole uh having like how many making sure you have so many likes for each picture uh slightly disconnected with the oh yep you're back you're back who's that so um but this hadn't this demand this pressure for oh my god i post her picture

you know let me constantly check it did he get more likes did he get any more likes did he oh my god he never got enough likes that's gotta be training these people everybody's just taking these poses from here from here that's what i see these uh teenagers do nowadays you know where they're going out to meal they're not enjoying the meal it's just about a photo here

people have asked me somebody asked me um i'd like to take your take on it given the opportunity um we're at the same age actually i take it right so given the opportunity would you like to be a young person today like let's say like if you could be a 20 year old today in 2020 yeah i'll be honest you would okay [Laughter] wow that's interesting you see because i i actually said i wouldn't you know i'd be i'd be terrified to be

a younger person today because i i find it i find it so draining what they have to you know these kind of pressures that you're saying this pressure to do this this pressure to do that this pressure to even things like relationships and um i i just find it like that stage of life and i i honestly wouldn't like i it's don't get me wrong to be honest to get i think get me wrong in terms of that side of it i wouldn't like all the constant to be accepted by

fellow peers or it's uh or similar but um the other things that things have become much easier uh i'm not just saying that i'm just saying if a person look if i was in my jahilia days carried on then i would use it's like paradise for me whoa i can just pick you a lot here but um and i mean you could other things as well but i mean you could do that now or as opposed to being 20 years old you you still young athletic i mean everything's what's what but so if you're gonna say well i wouldn't do it now because

of my religion let's say my islam but then even if you're 20 you wouldn't do it because of so what what why would you prefer to be 20 right now you know i would be prefer i would prefer if i was on the dean if you weren't on yeah you know i i need to show you i need to show you some fatwas spice up your life a little

more you know i've said mother is permissible you do know that right so but that because i see more i think look i i had this discussion with uh a friend actually recently um momo i don't know if you or maybe some of the viewers know him and uh he's young in his mid-20s and he and he kind of asked me that and i said you know genuinely i said that look i think we all as human beings have a fear

of associated with age in the sense of becoming old and weak i mean i i definitely have that fear i assume that that's a natural thing at some level i i don't have it on an obsessive level but like obviously i don't want to you know people don't want to become weak they don't want to become like lose their you know abilities to do things they don't and they have a fear of becoming old and whatever but that is human i feel and i i just like everybody else have those fears but being the way i am now at this stage of life

let's say i'm 41 i if i was given a choice would i like to be 21 and that this was the discussion and i was saying that i wouldn't actually because i'm i've i find that equally the pressure equally terrifying and i think bloody hell i don't know what how these guys are going through it because like you said you know having all this because they haven't proven themselves yet have they to themselves like you know this need to constantly check are other people validating my photo or other people you know giving me the thumbs up or other people

and yeah it's just wow i know you spoke earlier on about um or you've mentioned previously and you've been vocal on things like relationships and marriages within the muslim community and this is another such a big thing i mean marriages are a big thing anyway but i get asked so much about relationships and people saying look i can't find somebody to get married to or i can't do you get a lot of this i don't mean personally but i mean people coming to you but you could say personally as well if you wanna

these people who can't get married i don't know what's wrong with these guys the profiles be up and running so uh i i don't understand one of my mates he he doesn't he does he he opened one and he you know before you know he had a line of women wanted to uh approach him so i don't know why the how the finding is so difficult so next time somebody says to me i'm

going to point them in your direction of style you you hook them up yeah but there's loads of women out there what about the other way not in the not in the homosexual way in the other way as in women towards men yeah guys are more choosy and the guys who's not even he looks like that's interesting okay half dead you know guys who looks half dead he's not going to pull anything and he wants a bloody kim kardashian yeah so i think their

expectations do you feel girls are not as picky is that do you feel yeah i don't think girls are as picky as as the men the girls yeah i i do find girls nowadays um unfortunately look for first thing i think it's it's pressure

you know the guy is showing a bit of bling bling and she thinks yeah i'm gonna be you know carrying the gucci bags or louis vuitton bugs or whatever and that does attract you know a lot of these girls though they'll be honest so is that is that not then being picky or you said you know like not that yeah in the sense oh you meant picky for looks

because let's be honest guys don't generally are not going to have all the looks but nowadays generation maybe i mean are they not all very uh it's all you know trying to take care of themselves groom themselves you know spend as much time on cosmetics and as almost women or is that just what i'm seeing on social media i don't know that's increased as well male 1 male grooming has gone up there's even male salons nowadays so definitely males are looking after themselves more the amount of people that go to the gym's mail i suppose yeah the gym thing yeah yeah

yeah you find a lot of people working out nowadays yeah okay so that's that's an interesting so so you feel that these relationships but i definitely get swarmed by messages of people saying they're so they're struggling to find a suitable partner um you don't get this amongst your kind of the the younger people coming to you you get the odd i've come across reverts to be honest the reverts where they say we find out

yeah but generally out there there's loads there you go that's some good news people that's some good news yeah the problem is nowhere near as difficult as some may assume so i need to open i think uh marriage uh bureau uh what you need to do they might be lacking confidence right okay coach skills life coach people life coach so cool look at that right well some people posting some questions i know another thing i want to

just uh pick your brains on a bit as well this whole thing you you are quite vocal you speak on obviously related to that one then following on uh a greater connection with masjid al-aqsa and and these kind of things you're you're involved in that are you yeah yeah so what happened was i would say about eight i think nine or ten years ago i wanted to see my [ __ ] okay okay you're the you're the same age as me 41.

so can you remember all i can remember on tv was intifada all you had was that dome of the rock the beautiful building behind and the constant news of the troubles that is to take place so uh i could always used to have that uh picture when i used to watch the news and have that in the back of my head i never really knew much about al aqsa apart from it's our third holy place but it was not much even by uh olama to be honest they never mentioned quite a lot of that at that time so come say 10 years ago i thought that was

a couple years just before i decided to stop away from the jamaat movement that's all let me kill two birds with one stone let me go to jordan from jordan i'm gonna cross the line into palestine and i'll get to see palestine as well okay so yeah that's what happened i ended up in the murders by myself uh and they were like bit perpects what's this random guy from england coming here for and i was just honest i want to come i want to spend some time and i want to go there and eventually said yeah all right so i spent some time in jamaa in jordan and then uh eventually found out there

was a kind of ishtar taking place in palestine okay sorry so yeah eventually got to it it was a long story but i cut it sure eventually got too much aksa because the guy who brought me to into palestine from from jordan he goes once you get into sorry once you get into israel me and you we can't be together because they're just harassing just you and me is it because of how how controversial i am

i'm joking you mean generally people can't be together yeah so the palestinians are foreign when you get to the border i'll go my way you go my your way i'll wait for you for a little while and that's it and then uh got to the border they kept me there for a good four hours i would say four or five hours checked my bags they went through everything uh they asked me these yahoo the yahoo the interrogation they knew a lot of information they were like all right why are you saying shia sunni all right what are you hanafi humbly salafi

[Laughter] so that was that so eventually got in they gave me the the visa to go in and uh i'm looking for this guy where is this guy now he's gone long gone i have nowhere to be seen all i can remember that was in a village called yatta it's near hebron okay so all i knew so i'm going to the taxi stand and i'm going yet and they were like what what are you talking about yeah then i go [ __ ] what should i do then i then i could just take me to jerusalem and ended up in the church jerusalem yeah jerusalem and uh got

there i did all i know i'm in oxford i'm just praying and i met some league brother but so that was my first experience you know i i have a bit of a controversial opinion on this and i'm curious how how damaging do you think my opinion is yeah if i had a rumor that you're not too keen uh you're you're down with the middle east peace treaty and uh right okay that's right so i clearly

uh condemn israel for the atrocities they do and stuff clearly and i've mentioned that every single time in fact at one time i was one of the few um in the english-speaking world imams or whatever online kind of religious scholars that was actually openly speaking about the the gaza attacks this is going a few uh i think this this going a few years back when they were doing this bombardment non-stop and there were very few people that i was seeing on facebook that were actually speaking against it now i mean imams that is right so i clearly condemn what israel do i

condemn the the whole kind of the occupation and things like that that said i recognize that it's here to stay you know it's not going to go anywhere and so what now you know it's like a person has done something and the question is well what can you do about it because the person what he's done is wrong but what can we do about it now so i've said that well let's just be real about the situation israel is not going to disappear and i've said that i would rather

this is not that they're going to listen to me the palestinians but i said that they should be allowed to just migrate and they should be a a kind of a package where people are re-located and they they sent to different arab let's say countries or cities and they given financial recon uh you know they compensated very comfortably um obviously people palestinians here yeah so like in gaza because right now what they're living in a hell you know it's a hell hole right now it's a prison a living prison

so rather than live like that and being killed they should just be allowed to pursue life you know so yeah but people ain't that fond of that opinion the other thing you see the other issue as well is you see to me [Music] jerusalem isn't really that special so uh you see once you feel that well what is actually so special about jerusalem apart from the fact that in the past prophets lived there

some prophets may have visited like they say ibrahim al-islam of ibrahim whether sulaiman alayhi salam may have or may not have been there or some other but i accept that like let's say jesus was there and other prophets were there now i don't believe the israel was to jerusalem so i don't believe our prophet was there but okay other people may believe that but i feel the israel was a vision anyway but once you see this is another thing because once if you don't feel jerusalem is as sacred as other people because to people it's as sacred as makkah almost

likely you know it's the third then you see the question to me is it's just a dispute over land and it i feel it's the land of the palestinians that has been wrongfully taken like kashmir or like burma or like rohingya or like it's an issue of land that's been usurped and but it isn't an issue of religion you see so this is where because of that view i wonder hmm i'm sure this is very problematic for several people i'm sure they get very even offended by i wouldn't be surprised

uh i don't know whether uh people i don't know how you would feel with those with those views what's what's because you're you're quite passionate i take it about jerusalem yeah because yeah i've been there after that first six first journey many times after that uh and the imams of masjid aksa they said to us look all we want we don't want your money we don't want uh you to do anything else you know uh all we want is you to come here and so the sanctity of masjid aksa

remains and it's shown the importance to the muslim ummah that that this is also the our third holiest place obviously you may dispute that uh but they are obviously you know you cannot deny the fact there's many ahadees which gives the fadai of mashidaksa uh so or some of them may be weak but uh there are obviously authentic ones in there as well and uh for the fact that when you go there yourself and you see the persecution what the palestinians are going through on a day-to-day basis

then you will realize like by us coming here at least we're helping some of the part in the muslim economy going to the hotels the shops etc uh and obviously if you believe that the masjid aksar belongs to the muslims because day by day the israelis are trying to get deeper and deeper in taking mushrooms so obviously salahuddin the likes of salad he liberated it from the crusaders and the way you see is it's been occupied again

and uh that's that that's the kind of stance though let's say you know with this that you mentioned the suffering of the palestinians and i totally agree with you it is a violation of human rights it is uh it is not just a violation it is a perpetration of war crimes against humanity it is a genocide it's not just like they're not just that they are committing a gradual genocide of the palestinian people so wouldn't you i mean wouldn't you agree that these they should be allowed to just to leave and go to a different

part of the world they could if they want but they don't they're not actually allowed to they uh well certain of them could because how what what what passport would they have yes so some of them have got these special kind of permits they're like israelis yeah but i mean like so they could they could they would travel on some of they've got jordanian okay they don't have palestinian hospitals they have jordanian passports i'm assuming that's a small minority of palestinians who have jordan jordanian passports uh no i say the majority of the jordanian

the minority would have the israeli passports oh okay but this is in gaza because i would have thought that the people in gaza are trapped but because they've got israel on both sides and they can't leave like because how do you leave like you need first of all international documents and you need a border to leave yeah cause it's different god's is different so they they would need some special documents to leave etc but all the other muslim areas like ramallah all right okay the west bank okay but what about gaza where there's a lot of bombardment there's a lot of because that usually is getting attacked you know gaza the attacking gaza often uh

so wouldn't would you would you i'm just curious would you agree that they should be allowed to to leave and go or is that like a bad idea the way i've not spoken to any guardians myself but the other people from west bank etc who are going through a lesser degree of uh occupation and uh terrorization if you want to call it the way they see is this land is belongs to the muslims yeah and by us leaving this land we're giving ourselves up to the to the yahuwah and the way they see

anybody who does that is a salah so it's frowned upon and that is true that is true i agree that that is the truth but is it not a bitter truth that is better to take than to see your own children die like if i look like this is my house but or this is my thing or this is let's say it's my money or it's my thing or it belongs to but if somebody was going to kill my children you know if i had to make that like land what does land mean to me like if it means that my children will be killed over it i'd rather

i mean land you know i'm going to die it's going to belong to someone else it's going to stay here it's not i'm not i agree that it is a selling out it is a selling out i agree with that but is it not better that your children have the right to live freely in a world as opposed to being brought up like in fear and then maimed or killed or tortured or

[Music] me personally if uh majority of the palestinians i've met near round octa et cetera the way they see allah's place them there to defend the masjid aksa and they would happily give their lives of themselves and their children and their children are raised like that in that mentality as well that we're here to guard and whatever money you give us that literally around the houses will go for easily a mill two mil people that the israelites israelis would happily pay yeah this is what i'm saying that happily they would happily

buy them yeah they would happily buy them but they would not do it but do you think some of this narrative that i know they have this narrative by the way that i know that they say we would never sell and we're happy to die for this land because it belongs to muslims it belongs to islam uh and sorry not doesn't belong to islam but belongs to muslims and they are thalim and the usurpers but do you not feel that some of some of this narrative has actually been fed to them to the extent that they've then believed it like do you not think they've been partially brainwashed

into believing that that being told that you guys are heroes stay here suffer uh you know all the other arab states telling them jordan saudi the gulf uh the other part the levant telling them you guys are heroes they themselves would never put up with that i mean it's is it not like politics to create a barrier between israel and their countries to have an arab settlement that because if all of that was israel jordan would be in danger the gulf would be in you know i mean it's good to have a buffer like

to keep you know a distance so what do you think of that do you think some of it is being fed to them by the narrative that don't worry put up with it you know allah will reward you do you think that i can see where you coming from uh the way but then everybody's fed with some kind of ideology and so you've got hamas and you've got fatha the two uh naming parties there both have got kind of different ways of achieving their goals so depending who you follow there you're going to be if you want to call

it brainwashing whatever the way they feed you they're you're going to be uh sticking to their views so both far as far as i can recollect is they both have the similar stance and you shouldn't leave oh yeah yeah yeah i think all palestinians have that and i mentioned on a monday night that well you know when i mentioned this view of mine um some palestinian i got a message from a palestinian girl a european palestinian girl who was very offended by what i said and like deeply offended

and although she was very um you know somebody who's like i assume is a supporter of me and watches my clips and but felt that this was offensive deeply offensive what i've said that how can you ask the palestinians to give up palestine they love palestine it is their home it's like you know let's say you you're from let's say ethnically from gujarat or let's say india i'm ethnically let's say pakistani whatever it's asking these people to give that up now i did say in my explanation on monday nights you see i'm not saying in ideal circumstances

people would give up territory but it is what it is you know you've got a choice where you suffer you live like this you're treated like dirt you're killed or is it just land at the end of the day is it is it since when is it more valuable than life like it's it's a piece of earth why is it more valuable than human life yes that's that's the that's the different mindset now i forgot the the famous writer that came from palestine

the the the mosque had eventually uh assassinated him okay his name his name's gone off he was uh he was part of the plo and um so he in one of his interviews he said who do you're telling us to dialogue it's just like dialoguing with the sword and the neck you're putting the sword on our nets and you want us to dial up with these people uh for us you might think it's land similar to what you were saying the reporter was asking him but to us it's more than just land to to us it's everything it's our freedom it's

uh it's it's our right it's uh our uh it's it's something that we pride ourselves on uh he quoted a few things so for them to to take that out of them or even even myself i am a stronger believer i kind of disagree with yourself i think the palestinians should the way they see is if these middle eastern countries have recently agreed to the recognizing of israel it gives them less bargaining chips to to have a two-state solution at least if you're saying oh we're already recognizing west bank

being occupied this part being occupied what bargaining chips are you going to go to the israelis with you know so that's the way how the palestinians see see these negotiations at the moment so it's that if you have the resistance and inshallah hopefully we pray that a two-state solution is solved then things will get better and i agree i actually just for people who haven't watched my other thing when i mentioned that my opinion i actually began by grading it and saying that the ideal scenario is that the israel is an occupying state

it's actually occupied falsely illegally occupied you know palestine secondly i said so the ideal situation is that it never happens but it has happened the second scenario i said was the next best thing was a two-state solution however i said that i can't see that ever happening unfortunately do you feel that that could actually happen then i think it can happen it can't happen never know obviously you think israel would

give palestine a state parts of the land i think they would eventually inshallah uh give something to them may it might not be what they wanted but eventually they would give them something you see not land because land obviously they've got but to give them a state would mean that they would have their own passport their own currency their own potential military now that would just mean that like strategically that would just mean they're just gonna arm up and attack us like you know this is how

the israelis are thinking ain't they they're thinking like if you know if i if you've occupied the land wrongfully like if you've come into somebody's house like imagine you come into this house and you forcefully take this house over and you say okay you're gonna kill now all the members of this household gradually and you're gonna torture us so i so let's say i say to you okay i tell you what uh firstly i want you to leave and you say well that ain't gonna happen and then i say to you okay i tell you what let's split the floors i get to stay on the bottom floor with everybody in my lifestyle and you get to stay on the top floor now

if you give me the moment you stop me from being a hostage and you give me my freedom and i can go out meet my friends i can meet people i can equip i can come back it's inconceivable that i'm gonna let you stay i'm gonna definitely snatch back what was mine so and i'm sure that you the the the you know the the person that's the occupier knows that they know that look if i let this person you know go get a gun he's obviously going to shoot me you know because i'm the wrong doer here so i can't

see them unfortunately ever i mean i wish they did uh that was my actual second thing saying i wish there was a two-state solution but i unfortunately felt that i can't see israel ever doing that i think the palestinians have like you said if they did eventually get the state i think they would think twice now because after the 1967 war where all the arab countries surrounding arab countries tried to take over israel they were dealt with on a military level they took the israel

took on all the countries put together yeah yeah it did the famous the famous [Laughter] you know they just with their air power they just bombarded all the airfields all the airplanes that all these arab countries had uh egypt forever the surrounding countries so in terms of military uh they are well advanced oh yeah incredible they are like first world you know in that sense yeah yeah yeah nuclear strong i believe israel is nuclear strong as as far as i mean i'm i'm under the impression there's definitely nuclear strong yes and in terms of a lot of the systems

sophisticated software systems the weapon system is designed in israel uh so they're way ahead and mossad is known for yes somebody's asked a very interesting question here they said that look would i say the same thing with kashmir right now that's that's an interesting point you see it it then puts certain things into perspective now i would say if such a thing was possible okay then sure but there are a number of realistic issues uh with the

like obviously kashmir is not is you know palestine which is not then burma which is not rohingya every person has its own sorry every case has its own politics going on so in kashmir the question would be you see there's a huge um there's a huge question of if you say okay relocate these people the question would be that one obviously where would these people go uh because they don't have that to say well okay they could be dispersed into let's say um dispersed into india the rest of india

it isn't going to be accommodating in that way it would never be financially reimbursing for them in that way ever conceivably it would never happen thirdly kashmir is a state that is being disputed by parts of it by international states three international governments china disputes a certain part of kashmir as these pakistan disputes kashmir as this india disputes kashmir as this so it's a whole different political issue it's like the other countries wouldn't accept that anyway so china would not accept that the let's say around ladakh and

those places if those kashmiris were to even give it up it wouldn't still accept india it's not going to accept because it says that that is actually part of china now pakistan wouldn't accept it either they would say no that's actually part of pakistan so the issue of kashmir is not the same issue in many ways it's actually quite it's very you've got three you know three nuclear strong states all disputing a territory and who gets it's not an issue of just the kashmiri people and the indian government it's the indian government and two other governments

involved all of whom are nuclear strong and they've all got issues with each other so it's not a solution like the even if the kashmiri people you took let's say you uprooted the kashmiri people moved them out of kashmir the problem would still stay there you've got two of the government saying no that's still our country it's part of our land it doesn't resolve the problem so and in fact it would probably escalate a war because if the indian army let's say they removed the kashmiri people out of kashmir and moved in and they completely militarized the zone it's already militarized

but they completely moved in the army china would immediately move its army to the borders and pakistan would immediately and it would potentially trigger a nuclear war so it would be a devastation suggesting that for kashmir whereas with the palestine issue it's not countries disputing it obviously you've got the palestinian people and they're trapped especially the gazan and to me it was more an issue of saying well look life is more important but i do understand that to some people they say values are more important than

life we can sacrifice life over values i do get that um but i just wanted because i thought that's a very good question though people saying look that's a good question and it's not and i'm not saying that because oh because let's say ethnically i'm from kashmir or it's because it's it's not i mean that pakistan side of kashmir it's nothing to do with that it's actually that is not the problem the that the kashmir ironically to shame the shame is that the the fight in kashmir is actually not even about the people it's actually just about that land which is strategic

between three nation states whereas in palestine it is about a people who have had that land usurped and it was it's not actually to do with originally strategy it was more to do with religion originally and ethnicity so the jewish people want and zionism we want to set up a state you know mount zion a return of the israelites to israel you know the united monarchy of israel so there's a lot of religion and it's very different but yeah shall we shall we so kashmir is more more like a kurdistan

where it falls into three four different countries and kurdistan's never gonna be yeah i mean except yeah except kashmir does exist as a geographical location because i know kurdistan i don't think it does oh i could be wrong no actually it does in iraq and stuff like that recently but yeah maybe in some ways a bit more similar except i think it's more tense kashmir i think is one of the most potentially dangerous situations uh that humanity faces because the countries that are fighting over it are all nuclear strong and they're all a bit loopy

you know like the kind of countries that if you know if push goes to shove they might just bloody trigger a nuclear war and if those countries triggered a nuclear war it would be the end of most of human civilization as we know it because it's not you know these nuclear bombs are not like those in the past these nuclear bombs would trigger chain reactions because they've got so many more nuclear heads in their country if they landed a nuclear bomb there it would cause a ridiculous reaction to a huge part of the globe it wouldn't be so i i fear the danger of what's going on there

is so much more um it has unfortunately the potential to be a a human catastrophe it has that date whereas kurdistan is just a it's a human local regional tragedy so you've got a lot of suffering and i don't even understand you know kurdistan it makes no sense to me why those people suppress their culture why they suppress you know they they oh these people shouldn't be allowed to speak kurdish they shouldn't be allowed to since when has this ev and they're all muslim you know it's like they should we share the same faith

we share you know what what is the big deal that they speak with this or they you know are not arabs or they i i i feel that that fight is so petty um and it's just ridiculous against the kurdish obviously they want to make a country which makes it political i get that but it began with saddam and these people saying okay let's just bomb the kurds or they're not allowed to speak kurdish or they're not allowed to yeah shall we take a a few questions if people have got a few questions i know ustad isn't a vampire and uh if there are any rapid questions you

can fire them here and we'll i'll present them to the usted let me just see is the i'll bring up the facebook thing as well right so right people saying i've done a quite a bit of talking today i have i have apologies of start this energy drink right well here's your opportunity if there were any uh whilst uh uh that opportunities there uh usted what if

uh i know you're quite local uh uh locally active you mentioned that look i i do a lot of my things i've got a little boxing club that i uh that you've you kind of oversee in leicester for people who want to connect with you find out a bit more about what you're uh involved in what should they what are the best um things to do what's the best route to connect and maybe some of your projects like this boxing club uh yeah you can find me on facebook first uh it's my shop here i'll be there uh

and my boxing club to be honest i don't have a much of a uh social media presence i need to start something regarding that i just said some what's up really so those of you in leicester it's based on bartholomew street so recently there was a stabbing by two muslim brothers who couldn't one kill another so yeah it's famous for that what is famous for that sorry the boxing the no the the street where the boxing club is a murder took place a stabbing took place where one muslim lad uh stabbed abel and kane

yeah that's what happened and unfortunately the other guy died yeah so yeah but yeah that's based on barf on the street um uh i and i i usually come out in ramadan uh i don't know nowadays people understand coming out to mean something else just be warned be warned they think that's an odd time to choose that to come out during ramadan [Laughter]

right so cool people it's been absolutely awesome as always today i must apologize i you know the energy drink is it had me talking so much so but it's been an absolute pleasure having you on i'm very grateful shukran for participating sharing your thoughts showing that diversity keep that good fight going man in leicester it's much needed all right damasi caballeros

once again i'm going to put up my the the page if you haven't already liked and subscribed then what the hell you know what then in that case visit that boxing club and start if you yeah yeah definitely i'll be sharing ustad's profile page as well on my youtube description so look out for that cool people wherever you are take very good care of yourselves

likewise to use that salam allah