Islam came for each and all | Mufti Abu Layth

How are you doing? On momentico espera me. All right, Faisal to Ronnie. Hi, can you hear me? I can indeed. I can indeed. Let me just get rid of this thing here. All right, there you go. How are you doing, Faisal? I'm fine. How are you?

I'm good. Where are you joining us from? From Lapra. It's not too far from Lapra, yes, yes, Lapra. All right. 45 minutes drive from you. Say that again. It's 45 minutes drive from you. Yes, of course. It's an amazing, quite scenic place as well. So, I'm doing the law.

Talk to us, Faisal, man. What What's on your mind? Yeah, so my question is I think I think this The only reason I'm asking this question is here here is because you provide this safe environment to ask questions like these. I have been recently Just in your you know your service.

Thank you very much. So, I've been reading a lot of books on philosophy and reading on all these greats like Socrates and you know you know the Buddha and Marcus Aurelius and all these amazing people that have lived in the past and I was asking I was just discussing with my friends the other day. I think if we take our prophet Muhammad and if we just take a look at his philosophy do you think in our in our love for our prophet over the years we have kind of

stripped away the the struggle that he himself went through to kind of finally arrive at Islam as religion as and a philosophy. Because the way it is it has been taught to us throughout our lives lifetime is, you know, this this man who's really honest. Uh everybody thinks like that and then an angel comes and finally, you know, kind of reveals the truth to him.

Mhm. Whereas there are all these other people like Socrates and Aristotle and Plato and you know the Buddha who had to leave, you know, live in in you know, you can desert the world and leave everything and spend years meditating, introspecting, they thinking about life and finally arriving at their philosophies. And you know, it's I kind of I used to I I use this knowledge with my friends.

Whereas you know, if you've got a if you've got a teacher in classroom, okay? Yeah. And there are all these students and some of them are really hard working students. They work really hard and they finally, you know, pass the exams. But then there's this one student who's the teacher's favorite. God teacher being God here. He's his favorite and he's already he's he he also not only does he allow the student to, you know, uh you know, struggle and learn, you know, for the exam himself but rather gives him the paper, uh you know, outright before the exam says, "These are all the questions." And he kind of gifts it to him because he's his beloved.

He is his favorite. And I think obviously you have tremendous amount of respect, you know, for prophet. But I think in in order to bestow this sort of metaphysical stature for him, we remove we kind of feel like it was just given to him as if he was entitled. Are we not stripping away the man he was and he going up to, you know, Hira and and instead of this angels coming to him and revealing the truth, he finally arriving at the truth himself.

Now, I'm not saying that God has nothing to do with it and this is a man really coming with the coming with a philosophy, but to me at least to me, my faith is God doesn't seem to be this this king-like or human-like person who just says, "Okay, you know, I really like this person. Here's my gift to you." I mean, God can be the truth. I mean, obviously when you when you say I when you say you know, he's he's not something that we can really comprehend.

what what you're saying is that if I've understood this correctly, is that, you know, there was this whole this kind of like the making of the the the prophetic arrival. The kind of mental making of the prophetic arrival with the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wasallam, which would have been years and years of introspection,

meditation, it would have been years of mindfulness. And and this is very clear in our literature. Our literature doesn't deny any of this. The literature mentions the Prophet would often go to Hira and he would often go and just be my you know, practice mindfulness or meditation. People Some people don't like the word meditation, so maybe mindfulness for them, but I don't have a problem with the word meditation.

And they say that he would kind of get the hennah. Okay. And um And it's interesting what what what what what does that exactly mean? What was it that he was doing? They don't seem to focus on it in telling us. And what's happened is in the then there's the struggle of the prophet's life in Mecca.

And then there's the Medinan you know the the kind of thriving stage which Islam kind of this explosion of Islam. And it's the the stage that really is setting the future into into motion that huge spectacular things are going to happen now.

And you're right in all of that maybe you know we've we've kind of forgotten about what about the the what gave rise to the mindset that the the mental journey. I don't think Islam would be in any way opposed to us focusing on that. And I think actually you're right it's important to but along the way Muslims haven't for the most part focused on that.

I think some people did mystics and the early proto-Sufis that before the Sufi became a thing. Those kind of people may have and this is why that's what they got into you know this practicing this mindfulness and going into meditation and and I think people that did that um even I suppose Muhyiddin ibn Arabi or other people like that some of them may have then been seen as oh my god these guys are deviants because they're not part of a structured you know that structuralized

Islam. Because that kind of Islam which I I think is a very healthy Islam is is more about the spirit of Islam. It's a very Jesus-like Islam as well. As opposed to the Moses-like Torah version of Islam, which is a very letter-law driven Islam that many people associate with, and they kind of make sense of.

So, I would agree if if I could draw up a distinction of, let's say, what is Jesus-like and Moses-like. And I feel that Islam contains all of these, but people do tend to find themselves on one side or the other. And you're right, more people, unfortunately, may identify with this Moses-like version of Islam.

This Judeo kind of thing coming through. It's very It's all about almost very rabbinic. Yeah. How the rabbis were into the letters, and this is Yeah, I agree. So, I I I think I don't think it's been completely neglected. I think some people did focus on it. Um and I think it's important to. I agree with you that, you know, maybe even reading up literature about people who were like that, people of the path.

You see, because this is what I call the path. Um when I say, you know, those who walked the path, it is that stage, that you know, it is the prophet in Ghar-e-Hira understanding the the concept of self, the concept of God, trying to not not not just the concept, but trying to that that be in the presence of.

And yeah, so that is the path really. is that not the Is that not the, you know, the concept behind prayers? I mean It is. It is. It is. Although it's not for me, it's for uh you know, it's for us. I mean, one thing I would say is that's what our prophet said, you know, how this how you pray. But, you being from Pakistan, you know, you see you know, millions of people praying for 50, 60 years of their lives ritualistically.

But, that doesn't that doesn't allow them to connect with God. You wouldn't want this that doesn't change their character once. So, what is then the reason behind it? I mean, a parrot can be taught how to talk a certain way and copy you. Does that If it does not elevate you, you know, the prayer, like your character, your mindfulness, your philosophy, then what? Is it just about copying or somebody praying?

Uh, you see, I I do see the benefit in all because I feel that people, human beings are different. And the beautiful thing about Islam is it came for anyone and everyone. You see, you could be in the North Pole. You could be in Alaska. You could be in, you know, the Aborigine in uh in Australia or New Zealand. You could be uh in South America.

You could be in Asia. You have a completely different mindset. But, Islam you will find Islam still relatable because that is the the malleability. And I think it's fantastic. And I think sometimes some Muslims ironically get scared of it, where we should be celebrating. This is the amazing, beautiful nature of Islam.

So, but I do I recognize part of that nature is that to some people it they just want that structure and law. And they want that kind of to them it's about structuralism. They want the letter of the law. And that's how they live. That's their code. That's the imprint. And that's fine, and Islam has that.

And to some people, they want the spirit. They're not uh letter people. has to have both because it has a physical aspect and a spiritual. Yeah, you know, But I don't I don't mean that by the spirit uh a spiritual. I mean you see, to some people, they are wandering souls. Yeah.

Both wandering and wondering. Yeah. You see, they've not been born for ages. Mhm. They've not been born to be trapped in structures. They are free spirits. Um and I feel Islam equally caters for them. But those people, I feel, will always be a minority in mankind because I think to wander, and this is what I mean by walking the path, I feel that to do that, a person must have um like your common person, I just don't feel would end up

on the path. It is only for a select few because it just by its very nature, it requires that you know, you said like how the Buddha went off and how these people Socrates went off and how this kind of it requires a certain person to be able to do that. Your common person will be too involved in just life Well, to be able to good point like all, you know, this this following this prophet's path is perfect, but when we start to discuss, you know, following his path, we would usually come down to he used to use this miswak, he used to put, you know, in black mascara.

I don't mean that by the path. But the foundation part is always a worried about sitting in, you know, so, you know, absolutely You see, this is more a this is more the letter of the the message. You see this this This is for people who need structure in life.

Always rigidity is paramount. And that makes sense because there's a lot of people like that. In fact, I would argue the majority of the people are like that. And just how you get different people, you'll get some people who are creative. You'll get some people who who are you know you know but but they they they're not drawn that way or driven that way. They may Some people may be more you know talented in other ways or some people are mathematical.

Some people are very logical. Some people are very um um you know driven by kind of rhythm. So people are different and I think there are many people who to whom that it serves the purpose. Like they need to know that this is a miswak or a siwak and I do this because this is what the prophet did and and I need this kind of structure in my life.

Uh I because suppose you would say well what was the purpose of the miswak? You could say well it was to uh you know to to just brush to their version of brushing the teeth. And you've got a toothbrush. But and this is why Qadi Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi in his commentary on Tirmidhi says that using a mouthwash and this is 800 900 years ago in Muslim Spain. He says using the ghasul the mouthwash is the same as using a miswak.

But you see to these people this is their spirituality and that's wonderful. There's nothing wrong with that. You see you could be someone that sits somewhere that he does that and and this is how he feel has this fulfillment. But then there will be certain people who are meta structures. They are beyond and above structures, the world of structures. To these people, contemplation and mindfulness with God, that is the ultimate.

But you see, that realm isn't I don't think your common person will be able So, if Islam was defined like that, your common person would it would would lose it. They wouldn't be able to do things like that. And I think it's made in a way that the you know when when we when I used to teach in schools many years ago, we would set the the lesson plan.

Now, I think everything's changed. We would set it that it would be aimed at the the the the low ability. So, because you'd have mixed ability and you'd have what we used to call then the gifted and talented in a class. That would probably be 10% of a class. So, just maybe one, two, or three pupils in a class. And then you would have the bottom SEN, the special needs, which weren't special needs special needs, but actually sorry, they may not always be special needs sorry, they were just low ability uh in a class.

And then you had maybe 10% and you had the majority, which were just average. So, you would set the lesson that it would incorporate the the low ability and it would be aimed at and the mixed average ability. But the gifted and talented themselves would be able to extend and stretch it and take it there.

But you would never set it that the lesson for the gifted and talented because it would miss the majority of the people and they could never do it. And you know, these people are gifted enough to do it themselves. They can make They can make that leap, but the others can't. So, I feel in many ways and this is what Ibn Rushd would say that you see, this is the nature of the Islam that it's aimed at the average person, but with the springboard for those who are gifted.

He says Al Quran. They can reach out. I got my answer. Thank you. But yeah, Faisal it's been amazing speaking to you. God bless you man. God bless you. Right, that was Faisal Durrani people. Wow.