Immature Muslim Men Abusing Polygamy | Mufti Abu Layth

so regarding slavery we know that it was officially banned say in the 1900s or so islamically and correct me if I'm wrong now just that that concept of slavery first of all being in the Quran and then and then like you know just the ruling being in the Quran can it be banned on like you know what I mean like can the ruling be changed even when it's in within the Quran because the reason why I think about this is because I think about a lot now with regards to the multiple wives scenario you know and the polygamy and I just see it well what I

know I saw that smile Omar as you said no no I see many tales many stories that are wrong I'm not trying to say I see it problematic but what I'm I do see the way that people are behaving with it you know and and the way that a lot of broken homes are becoming and and the way they use this I don't know side chick as their second wife or you know you know that this the whole that's what I see around me anyway I don't know about anything no because no one happens in many places that look what you have is there is a sense people well what will happen is you see this is okay so this is the problem

what will happen is that in many cases people do not let's say take responsibility as it were uh they and and I'm not people may have their own problems and everybody's sure this isn't about trying to say these are the fault picking but this is just as it is as we see it so people maybe let's say not pulling their weight at home not doing things not taking care of someone not doing whatever they may generally have a lot of issues maybe they're up to so many like maybe they just do drugs maybe they drink alcohol maybe they do all these things and this isn't to judge

them I'm just saying it descriptively they do all these maybe they're gambling maybe they're watching all these things maybe they're beating their wives maybe they and then what happens is they will say ah well okay I'm going to get a second wife or let's say they they do it they say oh um and they say well this is Islam and and you see the the problem is that the problems right there steering Us open in the face because this clearly that there's an Evidence self-evident kind of hypocrisy that's leaping out because the people are thinking well

let's be honest you're not really so bothered about um maybe in your heart of hearts you do value Islam but you're not so bothered about the manifestation of Islam and you're not so bothered about like you let's say in these cases people don't pray and I'm not judging them but I'm just describing the scenario and they don't um do these things when it comes to Islam and they don't do generally good things and and now what what they're doing is they're justifying something which which they want to do anyway but okay now they're justifying it by Islam and so it naturally infuriates the other

person because the the wife in this scenario would say well well I understand in many scenarios wives would you know may would not be happy with that scenario with that situation but in these in many of which happen to be most of the cases that you come across it's just absolutely it's like what the hell are you even on about you know what what has Islam got to do with this and don't try to shove Islam in my face and so it just turns into this uh disaster and people and and it's no surprise that whatever they're doing also turns out to be a huge mess and you know because they

just it's because the whole thing is from the get-go we set up with just I guess people are just doing what they want to do and fair enough people do what they want to do but when they justify one thing with Islam well okay that that's where and that too is something that's going to be a slap in you know it's going to be like a big it's going to be hurtful now I do also get the fact as well that look polygamy in Islam I do feel that there are certain cases where it does actually work out to help and does help sorry to cut you off I only know like a handful of people that it really does work and

they're doing an amazing job and and the women that they help out and and their intentions but they're doing it amazingly and contrary to most of say over 95 with what I see anyway is like you said a lot of them are not pulling their weight at home and then they either blamed the kids or the misses and then they go somewhere else and they go because I need yeah 100 I agree with you and let's roll it back I feel that what what we have you know a moment ago we spoke briefly I said this discussion about this kind of um Muslim hookup what date was it this kind of website you know where they're

going to have these kind of things and it comes it's coming back to I guess it's somewhat tied into this discussion let's roll it back the problem is with Muslims specifically maybe this In some cultures it's the broader culture and in many places especially Muslim culture like I can speak about in the UK I don't know how it is in Australia but I'm assuming it may be similar that Muslims unfortunately have bring they they have a lot of immaturity when it comes to relationships a lot now this may be because

um here the boys let's say the men are often Molly cuddled and they kind of they are uh they stay at home till they they live with the appearance they never encourage to become independent men like they are encouraged to work but they're not encouraged you see it's not being mature isn't just getting a job being mature is handling a bit of life as well and if you you we do have this culture here where people let's say the the guy comes home his mom you know bless Allah bless everybody's mothers that with the love they have let's say oh my son's

home all my sons and and so what and this kind of culture and what it happens is you now just have grown-up Boys still like so they they like man child so they they are a man biologically but they're still at the mental capacity or in the emotional capacity sorry not mental that I mean they do understand things they are intelligent but they they have an emotional capacity of a child like they'll throw a tantrum if something happens and they don't and and then they don't know how to behave in relationships experience as well so yeah so now

they'll tell the wife all you better and then and I'm not saying look sometimes it's it's both sides it's not just but I do see a slight inequality I see that this has maybe just been my exposure I have seen a lot of men it has affected more that they seem to both sides are slightly can have immaturity but I see sometimes it being slightly more from the men coming into the relationship and maybe the part of it is culture putting on them this expectation or do you know this is what you should expect from your wife a b and c and then they're like well and then at the same time they're

thinking should we be Eastern should we be Western should we be and they don't know what how to behave and they don't know who to copy so what they do is just metaphorical car crash after car crash it's like a disaster we shout they insult they humiliate they start becoming controlling oh don't dress like this and you think well oh don't do this don't do it and you think I I don't want you you're not allowed to you know they become over kind of just this kind of jealousy kicks in this kind of insecurities kick in and you think well wait a minute like you need a certain amount of either you're an adult or

you're not an adult like if you go this isn't like the woman is not a child he said well I don't want her going out and why like what are you what do you think's wrong look I think at the very beginning of the marriage a lot of that happens because yeah you're still learning and maturity is kicking in which is not I think the issue I think the issue is like as long as you're willing to build and learn together and and trying to you know take the next steps together and that's what I'm trying to say is that I don't see that happening and and I there's I said correctly if I'm wrong or saying anything wrong but going back to the initial question of like would it ever be say banned or you know like

just just Wall Street on this we'll come to that but whilst we're on this you see the problem don't you feel Omar is that once these things happen you know when you say look sure uh and I don't I don't know what the answer is here about this thing I'm not talking about the other question this thing because why aren't I mean what is the solution because the solution is a life kind of solution so it's not going to just be in some words but when these things happen and you say well people can just learn from them the problem is we we it's really difficult to not frame the other person in our

experience of them so if I have this experience with you that our history has now been tainted like I've got this history now even if I try to okay let's put it behind us but it's still there so what will happen it's not a clean slate it's not like meeting a stranger yeah you see let's say these people for example did have a relationship this is why often you see when people do mature the newer relationships that they have are often very different right yeah and this is why and I find here in the UK

um and this is obviously I'm just throwing this as a as a kind of figure just to put it but probably we're looking at maybe late 30s Muslim men start to get that kind of emotional maturity if they're getting it maybe by 40 they're getting it the problem is by this time they've obviously got kids and got a family that's already on family like like so much damage and yeah but now so now it's it's a bit like okay we don't know what to do with the situation but let's say this same man if by this stage was to enter let's say he's in his late 30s now entered a relationship he would be very different with this person

because now he's got all this experience he thinks well okay that's how I shouldn't do it that's how I you know that okay this is a known okay this was totally dumb of me to behave in this way okay I shouldn't react I shouldn't get angry so easily but the question comes back to well how does this how can we how can people be learn these things with by mitigating keeping their damage and loss to a minimum and that I I guess is a life thing I don't I don't know how how do we do this like in every point in life it's not only a spouse it's everyone in life if you remember like your childhood friends or high school friends or uni

friends whatever it is like you have a certain way of perceiving them if you see them 10 years later it's a whole different but you know them in that way and it's not going to leave you and it's the same thing with the spouse is when you live with them you cause damage or they see you in a certain way or you approach things in a certain way they have that judgment about you that even if you change 10 years later they just know that that's that's you see but this is this would be the problem now so let's let's go with this um just to kind of throw that angle in I'm not saying necessarily agree with it let's just because what we're doing is bringing the complexities so now let's say you are you you seem very young uh how old are you if you don't mind me

asking they always turn out 27. 27 a lot a lot see you could have said 20 we would have said just as dashing all right but this complexity here now look let's say so 10 years ago okay nine years ago you were 18.

now the person you were then to the person you are now is probably you know it's my it's like universe is a part yeah uh because these are like important years you know consequential years but even then let's say how you are now 27 when you'll be 37 you you'll have a very different mindset from from today now the issue is like when you said friends because we could take that complexity now you will have certain friends that you will be friends with let's say when you were 17 18 and you think oh this is yeah this is a I want to be friends and at 27 you think okay that person's

annoying I'm gonna cut that person I'm not going to be interested there yeah the problem so this similar thing is happening with relationships as well but obviously to cut it off here well okay what what does the person do here because here as well people have been annoyed with each other they've grown and maybe they've grown at different speeds maybe they've also grown in different directions so but there's now kids and so let's say even if there's one kid so let's say 10 15 years later even just one child let's let alone two or three or five or

whatever people have uh if they've been in a relationship let's say 10 years or 15 years or they will be oceans you know universes apart almost and but at the same time they will have some understanding of each other as well but they will but now the question might be that a person may think well hmm okay what now because what do you because they are in this kind of quandary that people feel that I don't know like what what do we do so okay let's say non-muslim scenarios what happens because we can expect we can kind of

bring it in from the scenario so in that scenario what would happen is I guess if they feel quite apart um they would just part ways and they would just say you know what let's just amicably you know what we feel that you know it's not this has been like they would feel that you know I'm not oh there's like a low level kind of almost like a cosmic microwave noise going on in the background you know sure we're not arguing with each other but it is kind of become really sometimes there's an awkwardness sometimes there isn't why don't we just go our own way and we'll we've got kids and so what and

we'll both take care of the kids and we'll both kind of co-parent and we'll uh do all of this and you find your path and I'll find mine now in many no I'm not saying in every single non-muslim but especially in the west it's very normal for that to happen yeah now even if you're going to look islamically in the past that would also be an option especially in the the time of the prophet and the sahaba it was very normal for and both people could with ease move on including the woman so you find in many of the The Seer and the sahaba's lives that as soon as a woman was divorced she often very easily just married again she would just go and okay she's married this person now oh

this should marry that person now then it would just be like well okay we're moving on but now the problem okay we gotta throw the reality in and this with many Muslims is a no-go because the men often feel that they're too insecure to divorce a wife the wife often if she is divorced cannot re-marry because she thinks well I'm just stuck with you know because I've got kids nobody's going to marry me and what will my family say if I get divorced now and and and the kids are often instrumentalized and weaponized against one another and so it's like a proper you know if

I'm just be honest it's like a proper show like we've got like a whole we see I speak to so many people you'll hear their situations these people are being dragged through courts these people are being dragged and I'm not I we don't it's really there I don't know if there are solutions because this is a life it's like a turbia thing it's not a solution thing you know it's like there's there's just well okay what do people do here um and you just think well I hope they can mitigate the damage that happens along the way because it's like damn okay and now I it is increasing that people are okay starting to part ways

but even now let's be honest a woman that is divorced um especially if she has kids uh it's okay it does happen but it's very rare that she will go into a new relationship just like like a man would just um unless the man all also has kids and has these men usually do not just that that's another social thing they don't marry like men will usually think okay I want to marry someone much younger than me or not much but relatively younger so if a guy let's say reaches his late 30s um he won't think often he won't like let's say for guys 40 you won't think

well okay I'll look for a 40 year old he thinks okay I'll look for a woman who's 13. and this is just this is just how it is I'm not saying that's a good way but that's how it is and it's not that women don't know that or men don't know that they might not admit it but that's reality that's what's going on so that's another complexity in there that what happens there because it's wrong to also say well these women that are stuck should be stuck because they should be stuck you know they should be allowed to and it's wrong to say even the men feeling in that situation should be stuck but then at the same time

it's still it's a soul image you know what it is it's like and I guess it's like the whole thing is like a premature birth it's like so unstable and so volatile the whole thing it's it's like well how do people fix this I don't know how they can fix it it's I think the only answer I've had in mind because I've thought about that a lot is because it's just either they get it and they try and work towards it or they don't get it and they move on it's really that's what it comes down to and because there's no as you said there's no one solution to this and yeah it's about the guy and and the gal to try and figure it out like and other than that there's not much you know there's

already a Vibe you know and true and a lot of things that people you know you can do things like little tips of maybe moving out trying something fresh you know as in together new house new place you know new furniture and you could do like new new advice Adventures you could do a person could do things but you see but the thing with that is it requires a certain maturity of mindset that's what I'm saying get it if you don't if if they don't have that maturity of mindset because that takes a very look let's have a commitment because people shouldn't as well just easily give up on

a relationship they should just it shouldn't be I I've spoken to people who've contacted me and they've been married for like two weeks just I was about to mention one year but you said two weeks two weeks I've spoken to people I've spoken to people for just two weeks and I I I I don't I I don't understand like I'll ask them that was this an arranged well like were you kind of pressure to be in this marriage and they'll say no uh I say well I don't get it like and some of them okay they won't be romantic romantic kind of love love marriage but they'll be marriage is by choice like

they'll be like yeah I was told about this guy as in that kind of a range not as in arranged like they weren't relative they weren't stuff like they were like yeah you know this person was a friend of this person and I said yeah you know I kind of like him I had some conversations we spoke about things and and we got married and no I've realized that and it's literally okay I've I've literally spoken to uh two people where it's just been something like two weeks three weeks I've spoken to this is like within the last year and I've spoken to several people where it's been within

several people it's been within six months several like I mean they've just and and and I always ask that did you not speak to the people before I don't understand like well did you not know the person did you know because of the other side of um like you said sorry that I caught up there yeah you're like you're back give me one minute yeah okay cool yeah so I was saying that um the nominal seems like a lot of them are 10 years a boyfriend girlfriend everything's going great you know they live with each other most the time they're working together suddenly the term husband and wife has been placed on

them it's like they can't last a year I don't know what happens is the pressure you know you know what there is as well though it's interesting because I remember watching this psychology um uh this thing on relationships and it was explaining that sometimes the this this like you I guess you know how this this is a kind of like a biting Point like when I guess when a person's driving between the clutch and just to get ready they say there's a biting point a kind of tension in a relationship between stability and

and a fear of loss that that maintains a healthy appetite for the relationship so so you find often people are together like you said like they're in a relationship and they think yeah you know this is my partner this is my boyfriend this is my girlfriend this is this but in the back of their mind this this little fear that what if he just stopped seeing me or what if he and it's kind of like a mental carrot and stick and what it does is it shows that it's like a sweet like attention it's not that in the in these cases that I was

watching in this like it was a it was a little kind of info video it wasn't saying that they've got issues in these studies that they saw they're just normal relationships where they're happy whatever they're just normal but there's always this like kind of like like a little fear of what if this happens and and so I guess people slightly try a bit harder both people are trying slightly a bit harder at times uh for the relationship and they're normal but then they'll have this and what happens when they marry in those and these were non-muslim studies yeah uh because they've been together for years when they marry this this

layer of complacency that steps in and well it's like oh well I'm married now and it's like well you know now he's not going anywhere yeah so so that so that tension that kind of biting Point disappears yeah and yeah so I I don't it's it's interesting because I don't know it is we are in a new I think we as a human species especially in the developed part of the world we are in a new age where because in you just go back a few let's say you go about 50 years the world was very different it

dealt with like a pragmatism you know there was just a role people had rolled I'm gonna be this I'm gonna be a wife I'm gonna be a husband I'm gonna be this I'm gonna and whether they were right or wrong what people want to say but they knew their roles and they wouldn't Define it doesn't have to be you know you marry you love your husband you love your wife it doesn't it's not about whether you're in love with them you love them because that's what you're meant to do but now we're in this age where everything's kind of like well there are no more uh defining points and and it's like well I don't know it's it's an experiment happening

right now like we're watching it unfold relationships are like wow this is why they've become big money as well I mean it's a huge you know multi-billion dollar industry because it's the thing of the age isn't it love love love love love and yeah yes even the hardened career pass obviously everyone's trying to choose their ways and yeah and then I get married till 30 40 now you know so obviously yeah and this is the uh and coming to the thing on polygamy this is where I to me I see all

paths have some wisdom in them now but many parts are many of the times abused so it's just like that with anything I mean it's like that with medicine with drugs with you know certain things could be used to anesthetize they could be used as a as an important medicine or as a drug or to reduce pain or to but it could also be used as a street drug or it could be used as it's it's like that and I see this is where I see so I do see a wisdom as well in things like the concept of polygamy now you may say well

polygamy applied in the you know islamosphere as we see it is often just an extension of abuse and it's often just an extension of yeah and I I would agree with you that it is often just like whenever I've come across maybe not every time I think I've come across a few where they have uh you know they've just they've been kind of managing it but mostly where I hear of it I hear of it as like what you're saying that look somebody's just you know they're having rows they're doing all this and he's just like well here's my other kind of wife and and they just that and then

that just becomes a thing to taunt um yeah and another thing I hear of as well in these cases is that the first wife uh in those cases that are that where people will the husband will not let her leave or to in a certain amount obviously I mean yeah like they won't let her like they won't they'll say no you have to stay you have to stay and and this this is the thing that they're they have to they there has to be a maturity to what is happening I don't think the mechanism is necessarily venomous or poisonous I

feel that it can because you know in it is true that the society that we are gradually uh and increasingly moving towards is a society with a lot of single families and it is a society where um I think once once people pass a certain stage I don't know like a lot of them don't want to be in these kind of I think they've just had maybe bad experiences in the past or they just you'll get a lot of women as well that they especially let's say they've been through a horrible relationship and they're divorced and they've got already kids and they want to prioritize their kids they don't want to prioritize

another man and they don't want and they want to focus on their life their kids their career their own career they want to oh sorry the kids future their own career they don't and they and they one maybe they're not as trusting of men which is another problem of this age that yeah people are very poisoned with men um and and some men do play a role in why they think that but that's a problem so they don't not maybe very trusting and they're thinking well look I don't want another man but maybe I do want a man I do want companionship but I don't want this whole a man in my life telling me what to do and stuff and so or even the full responsibility is full-time for

example yeah you know yeah they don't want that and is the ones that are actually working and it's going great for them is in those situations where you know the the woman is happy with that and it's all working fine as I said I don't get me wrong I think it's a beautiful thing honestly the way if it's done like with those examples if I didn't see examples like the ones I know then I would I would say what's the point like but those examples are the ones they're an example for the world how it just runs so well the guy's providing for everyone it's so equal it's it's I'll tell you something as well that I have because I I have said look there has been a lot of

immaturity from men but I tell you something on this note that I've seen a lot and I had uh this Mind Trap with Dr Imran Khan saying the very same thing that there's a lot of immaturity from women when it comes to these relationships that what you find you know polygamy is interesting because you think that you see polygamy the the woman you think okay well okay maybe women don't want to do it or whatever and certain things and that's fine that's that's up to them but it's ironic that several women that like you mentioned in these cases do want to but the people putting them down are

actually women in most of these cases they get we had this whole app discussing this they get a they get kind of shamed and they get this uh women naturally although these women not involved in that Dynamic of the relationship but maybe they feel in their life and insecurity in that maybe if my husband might do this tomorrow so somehow they feel by putting this down somehow I'm preventing you know somehow metaphysically I'm preventing it happening in my own home tomorrow so they they will women will put women down and usually the biggest obstacle to

women is women in in this case it's not actually men uh which is quite surprising uh on that and that's a whole another fact that's right yeah that's a good idea but yeah Omar I appreciate this this is a really it's a really fascinating discussion