"Musnad Gate" Imam Ahmad's collection not reliably traced to him | Mufti Abu Layth

uh all right now i want to share a few thoughts on musnad gate [Laughter] i won't go into this too much but uh i have in the past spoken about bukhari gate and why bukhari the transmission of it is brought into question because it rests solely on the back of somebody known as muhammad ibn yusuf al-farabri and he is unvouched for now you see what's interesting is okay at least from frabri

the book proliferates okay and then it has huge other problems with manuscripts and hundreds of hadith here and there and chains being mixed up and whatever but bukhari gate is not what i want to briefly mention it is now musnad gate the muslid of imam ahmed this is something i've been looking into what's going on here see these are the gins are

right this is something i've been looking into recently it appears that there's huge problems with um the muslim of imam ahmed now i feel that the muslims of imam ahmed i'm this research is still ongoing but it's definitely inclining towards that these are generally most likely the book is a fabrication okay however it may mean that several hadith in it are valid hadith as in the person when he made the book up he he could have put reliable hadith in there as well

when i say reliable as in maybe the usual of them were actually some some were actual hadith so it doesn't mean when you make up a book you make up every single concept that goes inside it so as a nick right so just to clarify what i'm trying to say the musnad of imam ahmad is highly suspect it appears that this book which has something like between 30 to 40 000 hadith in it

now this book i will do a more elaborate discussion on this in the future but it appears imam ahmed starts writing this book some people i think tribe other people say he's about 36 years old he starts writing it okay but he generally what it seems to be he writes it when he comes back from yemen he comes back from yemen he's been so he's from iraq he's from uh he's basara he travels to kufa he travels to wasat he goes to hijaz he comes back to basra

he goes to yemen now he goes to yemen and studies with abdul razak asani now that's one of his key teachers he takes whatever he can from him and then returns in the year 200 hijri it's after that time that he starts writing this is he's this is when it could have only been now there is i believe it's the year 218 hijri that the mechna begins and i believe it ends in 230 something so the mechna goes on with the uh

creation of the quran trial the the inquisition during that time imam ahmad is prohibited from teaching publicly so oh he's either prohibited or he self imposes and withdraws from a public life but the main thing is that he stops teaching and he's just at home so it's arguable that it's during this time if he was to write this book that he writes it when else does he write this book now this book is not like you know bukhari which has let's say under 8 000 hadith in it

7 000 something it's not like muslim close to 10 000 or whatever this has something you know falling short of 40 000 hadith now they claim imam ahmed selected this from something like you know 0.7 million hadith [Laughter] you know these things are blacks right there's no way you know there's no weight there's nothing like that these kind of don't exist you know the funny thing is this right this only about this is about five thousand hadith okay

let's stretch it seven thousand let's be super generous let's be super super generous this let's say ten thousand hadith there ain't ten thousand hadith but let's say this probably about whoa there's probably around seven thousand hadith yeah now even if we take ten thousand hadith for these people to say that they had memorized a million hadith seven hundred thousand hadith were known by imam ahmad this is what they say that doesn't even make any sense because

you see the scholars all transmitted this stuff until later scholars started counting hadith and then they realized we got a problem they realized what do we do because there isn't there's a tiny fraction of hadith that exists so compared to this number so then they started to say oh well a hadith means

variations like repetitions but with so okay but then they start to say oh even if the word were changes that's a new hadith then they start to say you know even if the name in the chain is said with a slight you know instead of uh his name they use a kunia you know instead of saying mufti they said abu leith that's now a new chain so it's a new hadith it's like yeah what were these guys memorizing you know like

seven hundred thousand and are there seven hundred thousand of these no are they one hundred thousand hadith no are there seventy thousand of these no are there fifty thousand hadith no are they twenty thousand ten thousand really now seven thousand okay it's like what is all this excess thing like what what is this i feel that there was so much kind of exaggeration going on that the later ulama were kind of stuck with it and if you say that these were blags or exaggerations then you undermine their authority now and if you undermine the authority you

undermine the commodity which is hadith which is the project what these later scholars were concerned with so it undermines your own efforts because your own efforts are to do with hadith which rest on the back of these scholars so you can't undermine them so therefore you have to somehow explain and it's like they say imam ahmed chose these hadith from 400 000 hadith but it's like there ain't four hundred thousand of these i don't know why okay some people might then say oh what

they meant by this was opinions of sahaba opinions of taber in opinions of tabitha going to call everything a hadith but this is really gymnastics just to justify that first statement that these people knew all this stuff so yeah but now coming back to this let's say imam ahmed had now 40 000 hadith or they say between 30 to 40 abu musa um you know mock the sea and other people have kind of done works on the muslims ahmed obviously so many people have done works

on muslims spoken about here you've got ahmad shakir all these people now people say uh there's less than forty thousand more than thirty thousand let's go with the mid range thirty five thousand hadith right even if we say i tell you what let's take the bottom range thirty thousand hadith even though they all say there's more than thirty thousand hadith

he teaches this to he teaches it to his two sons saleh and abdullah he teaches it to his nephew humble his nephew's name was humble and i believe another nephew as well but so at least four people now from all of these people the only person to transmit the only person to transmit the muslims of ahmed was his one son abdullah

nobody else transmits the muslim development okay cello okay okay okay why is that interesting okay that's rather okay that would be that would be wow quite interesting let's see but where it gets really interesting is the only person to transmit it from abdullah ibn humble abdullah are not all his popular students and all his contemporaries or his other brother or you know all these other great dons and no no no no

there's this guy called ahmed you know i'm going to do a more detailed ex point of this but he is born in the year 274 hijri he's born in 274 hijri he dies in 368 at a you know lives a very long life of 95 years abdullah ibn ahmad ibn alhamdulillah who is born in 213 history dies in 295

at the age of 77. so if oba is born in 274 so he can't start taking this book straight away can he come on like he's just born so what do you want to give him shall we say like what because by the time he's gone and by the way this you know saying he's born in 274 is a stretch because people say he was actually born in 276 but i'm going here with a uh i'm giving it a bit of a leeway

now if he is born as they say in 276 then but when the author dies sorry humble's son dies he would only be what does that make him 19 in this case it makes him let's say 21 when he dies so with a stretch so when does he start taking this book from his son because remember he's got to grow up first so let's say at the age of 13 he starts studying islam okay he's going to study hadith it doesn't mean you just grow up and you

hit puberty and somebody says you become the sole transmitter of muslim ahmed on this globe today [Laughter] so i mean what age does he start studying and he's a kid he's a teenager at some teenager who's taking thirty thousand hadith of the musnad of imam ahmad yeah this person who by the way some hadith say he like ibn fawari says that he wasn't even all that in hadith we don't even rate him and he was somebody they say he claims by the way he claims this

muslim ahmed appears after his region which was called qatar this region drowns and so he resurfaces and then as he resurfaces he resurfaces with this book and emerges and he transmits and then the soul transmitter from him is another dodgy guy called ibn muthem who is has massively problematic and then they say there's a soul transmitter from him who is equally problematic now what i'm really curious about how can this reservoir of hadith

thirty thousand hadith be transmitted by imam son to a ahmadine i mean you've got all these that his soul ear is this random teenager who himself by the way right only gives it on to one person one on one [Laughter] you know this this one rather dubious you know it's not dubious so this is massively i find it quite

whoa so people you know i'm gonna leave that there