Madinan Fiqh, Wahda tul Wujood, Pets (dogs) in Islam | Friday Night Meetup - Mufti Abu Layth

Allahbar. I believe this went straight to live unlike a usual countdown. Let's see. Where are we at? Right. Um. All right. So, there's two. I'm not sure what's going on.

I take it this has gone lived all see

So I was like, let's Allah, let's do a meet up and grace myself with your presence. Hi. Have an uru poem to start off with. Wolf Gate, you know, there was one on my mind,

the epic of Hazarat John Ilia where he says, See, think about that that really the kind of I suppose the wine places and all of this but this is a metaphor and symbol sar chanimmans it's a symbolism

this a lot of the great mystics would refer to the divine wine as well as a symbol of divine love. So he says Allah Allahh that's the one where he has his byonic kind of line that

that why should we hesitate to say this Oh, I hire. I feel that this line, this, you know, this kind of coupler, people could write a PhD on it. Yeah, this human darkness, the shadow

of you know to be able to confront such a shadow within oneself, you know, you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares right back into you. Allah abar. Whereas speaking of that theme, someone else had said that

[Music] And he just says, "You just got upset. We had asked the location of the drinking pl the me from every person whose eyes were intoxicating.

[Music] He says, "No, that's not fitting there. [Music]

You know, sometimes the thing about poetry has a rhythm. And when the rhythm moves the words come back to you that's so see he's saying who would have spoken to the poet's name is says see this The town was full of cunning folk and

this msk bara was too shy. I guess al people been Allah bless you all. Shukran Shukran somebody said look can't join today unfortunately need to head off somewhere now but much love much love to you too that's uh Muriam from Australia Allah bless you and bless all of you a mean thought that the universe materializes

the frequency of our of your feelings and that we are co-creators is I can't find evidence for this in the Quran look harder my friend you see Allah we are co-creators of our universe you see in the sense Allah is the ultimate creator no undoubtedly and only Allah's will is done.

But Allah enables us to cocreate just as Allah enables us to procreate or to to will or to do things. This is by the will of Allah. And if you look, you will find these verses, you will find these meanings in the Quran.

One beautiful way of looking at the verse of the Quran that you know that Allah says. You see many people they see this verse as saying

that you do not will something, you do not wish for something until until Allah wishes or And that's one way of looking at it that you know or unless Allah wishes that's I suppose maybe a more it'll help you understand how many people understand that verse that that you cannot even will

unless Allah wills. So Allah wills your will into emergence. There's nothing wrong with that. Of course, you know Allah. His will is is the only will. Nobody's denying that.

Another beautiful way of allowing this verse to to dawn on you, to open its meanings to you. Is that Una that you do not will for something you do not and this is more than just wish.

This isn't see when you say wish people we associate wishes with like oh birthday wish or make a wish for something you know something um almost seen as of child's play or that's the will for something wish in that sense if you're speaking about willing something into being into existence.

Allah says you do not wholeheartedly, sincerely, devotedly will something except the Lord of the universes will wilder into being.

Allahbar. So the moment you w it, the Lord of the universe willed it into being for you. So in that sense you are creating your reality not in the sense you are creating it by the will of Allah.

that the moment you you visualize it, you will it, you make, and it's not just an intention. You see it, you believe it into being. Allah wills it into reality for you. That reading of the verse to me is so overwhelmingly beautiful and not just beautiful but it

is so uh empowering. Yeah. So I do you do find these um you will find the Quran speak to you with many meanings with many messages and you know it will give you beautiful and enlightening understandings that meet your daily life.

Yeah. Um, all right. So, Allah Akbar salams from Australia. Allah Allah. Shukran.

Shukran. See, I was uh I was at an event, black tie event. I thought, yeah, we do some meet you amazing people online. There's always great you know these stories they have lessons in them for us to learn.

They're not naturally they are entertaining. Nobody's that's the in fact it's one of the greatest currencies and inventions if we can call it inventions or better still tools. One of the greatest tools of human civilization is stories.

the ability to share a narrative that takes a person on a journey and through that narrative they you share messages, you share um you know you share emotion, you share a bonding, a journey, a path and something to take away.

Now this is the beauty of this theme. that it teaches us in these ways that not to be you know the Quran there's a verse that that you know had you been harsh with a with a kind of thick skinned heart People

would not have come to this message of hope to this caravan of mercy. They would have fled. But this message from the messenger sallallahu alaihi wasallam of that Just think about it.

You know, how often have we as a people, how often have you in your personal life, if somebody's ever told you something in a harsh way? How have you reacted to that? You know how often can you say can I say that we've actually taken something from that or is it the rift you know Allah's there's a that

this Allah loves that this kind of softness in and rift is more a softness in things like how we how we engage one another. That kind of riff and it's also used rafik in the sense of a companion that softens in some way the um maybe the difficulties of the journey or of life you know that's what friends do.

So yeah, this message of how we convey this theme to people through rafa rahma, you know, through love, through even when we and this is because it's all too easy to come down harshly on someone.

You know they say in psychology that anger is the most predictable of all human reactions. You can almost it is the most predictable. It's like at such a base level isn't it? And we have to rise above that.

That's this message. Speaking of narratives, there's a beautiful uh narration in line with all of this. Let me let me tell you share this story this narrative with you guys. So there was a person in the lifetime of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam in the early days.

The narrations show he wasn't Muslim and his name was Juberi and but he had a good bond like when the prophet came to Medina he was he was very kind with the prophet and and many of his family members I believe he was from the family of uh the Ibn family but in any case he was from the Ansar uh that that you know that that family the extended tribe and he had a very good relationship dynamic with the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

But he was known as somebody that you know he enjoyed certain finer luxuries and he he really enjoyed charming, should we say? uh the gentler the gentler folk. He really enjoyed the company of women and was known for this.

You know, he would love his poetry. He'd love charming the ladies and he was always, you know, there if there ever there was an opportunity, he was on it [Laughter] and he was known for this. So, so what happens is he so on this one occasion the prophet is setting out on a um this journey and there's a lot of people from

the Ansar helping him and they're related to Kawwat as well and narrations indicate at this stage he wasn't uh Muslim at this stage but he was very friendly. So he comes along to help on this uh journey. So you know as they they're going they set up encampment at a place you know set up their camps and so Haw comes out and you know everybody settled they ch you know doing their thing.

So you realize there's a char this. So that's where all the pretty women are hanging out. There's a certain tent by which all the you know some finer creation of God was found to be in that moment. So he thinks a so he goes into his tent and he you know at that time they had a suit as well.

So this suit in Arabic was called a you know this is another thing today people think that the th is somehow Islamic. It's the in the prophet's time they never really wore thes like how today gulf Arabs wear ths. This is I mean it's you know it this is more a Gulf modern dress. In the prophet's time, they were probably a bit like um they would have probably been a bit so it would have probably been a bit similar to almost like a ka that tie but slightly longer maybe but with slits and a kind of toi like so

what you see some of the traditional thisi folk wearing and in some places that was probably more akin not spoton but it was probably more similar to the classical dress of the uh ancient Arabs in the time of the prophet then today the gulf you know the gulf th more recent in the prophet's time they didn't really maybe some people had that but most people they tend to walk like a hah and haha was like a suit where you had your isar which is the toi the kind of uh you know the sarong kind of thing that you wear and then they had like a

kamis on top of So he goes into his tent and he's got his haha and he wears this and he's got perfume and he kind of does himself up and and so he goes back. So he goes to this tent where a lot of the pretty women are hanging out and he so he chills. He's hanging he's hanging out with them.

Oh, why not? So, whilst he's kind of charming them and loving the company, you know, unexpectedly the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam walks past. So, he wasn't expecting the prophet to come by this way because the the tents were all kind of spread out and stuff.

So, he gets up. Now, the prophet's not said anything to him. not um nothing no you know he's just walking in that direction so he sees the prophet and he gets up and he's now a bit anxious a bit nervous like uhoh like what am I doing that you know he's I've been caught out kind of thing so the prophet sees him looking a bit anxious and just pauses and he says to the prophet he says oh um says uh my my camels bul you know some of my camels they they

they so some of the camels would sometimes go um like suddenly astray you know they would go like a bit haywire and ivorate and run off sometimes it would happen to camels and they called it in Arabic the term for it is shud so he says to the prophet you know some of my camels they went like shadali jamal so I came here to ask the in can they help me make a like, you know, like a kind of like a something you bind and tie the camel with?

So the prophet just looks at him and he says, "Okay." And he kind of just goes off. So So he's feeling he's got caught out. He kind of chills and and he goes and so while later while later he bumps into the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam one time much later later time.

So, so they're back in Medina now in a while. So, the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam says to him, he says," he says, "Uh, so how are those camels doing?" [Laughter] So he says, "I was so embarrassed like I kind of felt," he says, "I kind of snuck out and got away." And then later the narration indicates that he's embraced Islam at a later point.

So he says, "I saw the prophet in in the mosque once and we were leaving." We kind of, you know, we kind of coincided and and he's and I and he the prophet smiled and he said, "So, how are those camels doing by the way?" And he says I felt so in my heart. Uh Allah Allah.

So you know you see the character the personality of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam in how he engaged people and these stories these narratives they that narration I believe is in um it's inrani it's in um I believe it may be in the mustadh as well But you see these stories, these narratives, they are there to to to

kind of sure to to you know we take so much from them. They they can be so enjoyable to listen to but there is a lesson in how we engage people. How do we and and also how to manage people around us that are going through certain things as well and how do you know the prophet wasn't a this person is standing here talking let me tell him off and micromanage him or do this do that no in fact didn't even ask him I mean he gave up a an explanation himself

made himself look guilty but even later on the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam just very humorously uh engaged him knowing Allahbar. Right. So let me Right. Let me share the link if any of you uh if anybody wants to jump on.

Let me just right okay other than that we'll just deal see if there's any questions here me share the link whilst I'm doing that you will need to have your mic on and the camera as well that's the settings so without that I won't be able to get you on I've shared the links Salamlaykum.

Salam. All right. So Allah Allah, it's morning here. Well, good to see you. Likewise. It's good to see you from Malaysia. Allah abar. Look at that. A very near and dear friend of mine and and relative actually, Sheh Sajad Hussein.

Heh sajad is currently in uh Austral uh I see it look at this see I saw fad I saw your thing and I thought Australia he's in Malaysia so yeah that's something Allah abarum hi hi shukran shukran Allah bless you aliki g right so people.

I can see some of you trying to enter. You will need to have your mic and I've shared the link and your camera uh operational for it to salam from Lebanon Allah Akbar. And we've had people remind us the peace treaty uh at least I know Israel once again I read online following the uh peace treaty they had violated it already and attacked some people in Gaza.

But inshallah we're hoping that there's some um you know peace now and really Israel has lost this terribly. It has so you know been reduced to rubble. Israel has they've tried to reduce Gaza to rubble physically but in the eyes of the world their M has been reduced to rubble that they have been exposed for the kind of genocidal monsters that

they are more and more countries around the world have now recognized the state of Palestine. Amen. May Allah bless and grant victory to our brothers and sisters. Amen. In Palestine and wherever they're suffering and grant them stability and peace. Amen.

You know, and bring it from, you know, from where we can't even imagine. Allah brings them strength from there. Amen. Yeah. See there's some more now this isn't how would you compare the works of Neville Godard and Arabi thanks I feel that there is a connection you know that this what we're finding in the west now this thing of you know a lot of these are ultimately you'll find that this

awakening of things like the law of attraction or the secret or kind of visualizing the future, seeing it to uh taking control through controlling your inner story. All of these whether it's going to be people like uh Tony Robbins or or all sorts they trace back almost one could say the lineage of sorts to people like you're going to see Neville Godard being one of the key people inspiring a lot of this and he was inspired

by his teacher Abdullah who although has the name Abdullah was Jewish I but was a mystic Jewish that was mystic Jew that was uh practicing the arts of the Cabala. Now this Jewish mysticism, it arises from Muslim Spain and it is undeniably influenced by Muslim mysticism of Muslim Spain.

So these things we're seeing, they are connected. You know this that you see it, you believe it. And this story of uh you know Neville uh Godard when he says when he comes across he was trying to I believe go on holiday to Barbados or holiday or get back to I think get back to as holiday or but he didn't have the money and and he bumps into this Abdullah who tells him that you don't get it you're already in Barbados and he says well you know what on earth are you talking and he says he says no

you're already there like you have to know it, believe it, see it, smell it, touch it with your mind's eye. And then he starts doing this and from nowhere it is arranged for him to go fly back to um Barbados and and this sets him on this journey. And many people um today that are kind of awakening to this especially in the west its links do lie

with Islamic mysticism with the great mystics Muslim mystics of especially Muslim Spain Muslim Spain andaloo did so much for us that it's you know it's just something else allahbar Yeah. Yeah. It is. Um

yeah. So somebody said his teacher was a s I mean he was uh yeah that was that was him and makes so much sense now. It does. You know I never really previously understood and And like many others, I fell into the trap of assuming that means a kind of pantheism that Allah is in everything or panentheism.

This this thought that you know everything is kind of made up out of Allah or you know Allah is and and that's not what they're saying. In fact uh she Ari himself in the fut writes that whoever says it is kufur he says that that is kufur and to state that we believe in you know how often many of the um reductively you'll get many people

let's say the salafia but this isn't just the salafia you'll get non Salafi is saying this as well say oh well if Allah is in every oh so he is this apple you know I refute it thus as in the great philosophical works of responding to idealism I refute it thus as he kicks the rock but the point is here they'll say oh if Allah is in this apple I refute it thus and I eat the apple I mean that is so reductively naive ly miserably absurd that that is not

how Allah is in the apple and god forbid that you are now eating the apple. Nobody says this. This is not okay. Imhabi himself he didn't use the word although he has used the word but this idea was it was around before him and some of the Andelus had spoken of it but

he really you know hones in on it really philosophizes and kind of goes to work on this theory. What this is saying is not that Allah is in everything. See, though, here's the thing. You got to be ready for this.

People are delusionally of the opinion that look if so what are what are you saying that Allah is in so if we exist Allah exists and this is so Allah is in this cup for example this is what they're thinking that's absurd so here's the thing with and you have to be ready for it the truth Truth is that our existence is not as real as we think.

Not Allah's. See people get that wrong. They think both are solid existences. Wujud and that's why they're getting this wrong. Our existence and wujud is an emergent property. It exists in the sense that it exists for us just as the computer game is real to us on the screen and to the characters in the game.

But there's nothing you know this is it's it's out of nothing in the sense as it's been said in physics that you know everything we call real is made up of things and stuff we can't call real. So all of this reality around us is really illusory to you know 99.999999% [Music] it's not there it's nothing you know if everything is going to be

compounds and molecules and atomic and the atom itself is going to be 99.9% empty space nothing. So then where does it come from? And that's why the mystics were on to this that it exists. It is this is where Arabi says it does exist to us.

It is a a reality a truth. But our is like so where the people are wrong is in assuming the apple tr objectively exists. It does exist in our world.

But our world is a contingent emergent reality. Allah's reality is absolute. See, we are in some ways like the reflection in a mirror. Does the reflection exist? Well, it does. But does it?

Because if I'm looking in the mirror, is that me? Because isn't this me? So, if this is me, what is that then? Oh, but that's a reflection of you. So, it's not me. It's a reflection. What's a reflection? It's mirroring you, but it's not me because I'm over here.

See? And like that, it vanishes into nothing. That is our reality. Our wujud Allah's wjud is absolute. This And see they said so your reflection is dependent on your being.

But I'm not asking is the reflection dependent on the being. I'm asking something much deeper than that. I'm asking what is the reflection? Is it me? I'm asking it's not. Is it other than me? You see, so what is it? I'm not asking how did it emerge.

I'm not asking the how. I'm asking a deeper question as to its onlogical reality. What is it? Does it even exist? And in as Arubi says that from one perspective it does exist because it's right there. But from another perspective it doesn't because it's not really me.

It's a reflection of me which has no ontological reality. So and I understand that look this under grasping this is not for everyone. Because look to many people this may be just too philosophical and not everybody is cut out for higher thought philosophical thought.

Not everybody's cut out for it. Look, not everybody's cut out for mathematics or higher mathematics. Not everybody's cut out for physics. Not everybody's cut out for art. Not everybody's cut out to uh for acoustics or music or poetry or not everybody's cut out for these things and that's fine.

It's not that's not a diss against them. They're just different. You know, not everybody's cut out for sports. Not everybody's cut out for for many things. So it's not a I think the problem is when it comes to thought we can never truly imagine what thought outside of our thought looks like. So if if I was to ask you let's say a thought experiment.

I want you to try to think that you have the mind of somebody more enlightened than you. Whoever that like we all accept there's going to be people more enlightened than me. more intelligent than me, more um you know just conceptually aware than me.

I want you as a thought experiment to try to think what it feels like to think like them. The truth is you can't. All you're going to think is that you're going to imagine, oh, they just know information that you haven't memorized. You're going to think this, but that's not the real. That's not it, though.

It's not information. It's not quantitative. It's qualitative. But you can't imagine it because it's like asking 3D objects to perceive 4D. You cannot think intelligibly outside of your own intelligibility. So you can grow but you can't think it because to you it is the unthinkable because your mind is capped off.

It has a ceiling. So what you will imagine is so if I was trying to I'll think oh well a person more enlightened than me is what maybe they're just more zen maybe they're just more See that's trying to imagine a feeling not the feeling qualitatively what does their mind what is their mind like try to put my mind into their mind I can't do it this is Why the pursuit of of that is the greatest pursuit

because it is the one where people cannot even see what they are lacking. See when I look at a sportsman I can see that oh oh I can't do that. When I look at a per an artist, I can see that, oh wow, this person has skill. I can't do that.

If I look at a person that can sprint and run and I think, oh, wow, the person's got great lungs and great st I can't do that. So this is the thing that we the fallacy you see because that's one thing we can't do when it comes to enlightenment and it comes to qualitative intelligence.

We can't see outside of our own brain like we can't imagine what a person who's more enlightened can imagine. All we can do is assume it's more information. So we assume it's just like me but with more data or the person has a greater memory than me. They have greater of recall and that and they may have greater recall but that's not the qualitative jump.

So this I'll tell you you know P did a lot of work on this and you can read up his works on qualitative um knowledge and how it's not just more information that there's like there's an actual qual this is when I Malik said that you know when they asked Imam Malik he said that the that the elm is not he said

he said knowledge is not amassing more data points more information. He said knowledge is it is a light by which Allah enlightens your heart. And that that was Imam Malik, Imam Mudar Hij the legend the dawn of Medina teaching us this that this is not something we you know it is not just information data

point that's you know almost 1,200 years before Pia coming along saying well um right that you know that we cuz up until PJ's time, people felt that cuz PR really influences the schooling educational um kind of systems and you get to read a lot of this in especially in if you're in the educational field field of teaching or if you study child developmental psychology you'll see a lot of this as well.

So Pia is often compared with Vagotssky and their their methods of how children learn. But prior to Pia people thought that like what is a 10year-old? A 10year-old intellectually they felt is an 8-year-old with 2 years more of information.

So a 12year-old is a 10year-old with two years more of information. So whatever information a learning let's say all the data points that a 10-year-old has a 12-year-old is just 2 years more of data points rewired on top of that. Now PJ realized that that's actually not accurate. So what some of the schooling systems were doing and some schooling systems still do this till till date especially in the UK um they will bring forward compress the curriculum because they

will think look I know a year seven pupil that's the first year of secondary school in the UK that the year seven pupil student will who has five years of learning before they do their GCES we can cram the five years of information and data points into three years of information and data point thereby accomp uh accomplishing the qualification 2 years earlier.

Now, now this may work because you know some kids can just wrote learning memorize stuff and some kids are precocious so they mature ahead of their time as well. But you see the theory is wrong, the philosophy is wrong. They think that this is 5 years of information and we're just reducing it into three years. But what Pia had highlighted was that actually it's not quantitative.

Something qualitative happens inside the brain of the child that they jump and leap to new growth. That growth is not quantitative. It's not about data points. It's about a shift in understanding that the 12-year-old is not just a 10-year-old with two years more information. They have had a shift in understanding and perception that the 10-year-old has not yet had.

So, you can't just teach the 10-year-old to be a 12year-old academically. I mean sometimes you can pull it off because some children uh mature much faster than others. They're precocious but generally speaking it's not the same. So this theory is what Imam Malik 1 1200 years prior to that or at least 1100 years prior to that had alluded to that the ilm is not it is a light by which Allah enlightens the heart of of people.

Yeah. All right. Mhm. Right. The link. Here's the link. Let me share the link. Um, somebody had asked, let me just share the link first. Is that Mhm.

Um, Islam is the universal, right? Mhm. Allahbar. Somebody asked about a particular poem or something.

Oh, the one about the caravan or Yeah, I I do love that poem. There's a poem by uh Sagiki, I believe that thousands of flowers blossomed. Yet our caravan did not stop. Allah he says that you know that with a heavy

heart we've crossed through these fields. Allah see such is the life of this dunya that that's a a metaphor symbol for traversing wayfairing through this dunya right let me um right I've shared the link let me get some of you on here right

we have ther Moiero Madalammo sorry how are you >> I'm good I'm good shukran shukran how are you where are you joining us from again >> synagal synagog >> beautiful country of synagal and very >> blessed the blessed land allah Very beautiful girl.

How are you man? Uh you are well dressed today in this >> shukran. Yes. Yes. I thought you know since the is going to come on live I should make an effort. >> Where is my suit? Where is my suit? >> Allah all [Music] suit when I need it.

>> Yeah. No. Well, you know, I had uh an event and then I thought, well, cello, you know, let's uh we've been to one event. Let's let's have another online audience with >> with our blessed people. So, yeah. How have you been and what's been going on? What's preoccupying your precious mind nowadays? The >> um I'm I'm good. I'm doing good, you know, life sometimes, you know.

But yeah, alhamdulillah. I have just a question for you. Is this it is about uh I don't know what you're thinking about the the the Quran alone movement. You know me myself. >> Okay. Okay. >> Me me myself I am a Quran alone. Uh I follow the Quran alone. >> Me myself.

>> Okay. So I want you to I want you to know what your what you what you're thinking about it because last time you were you you are talking and you discussing about it. >> It was you were discussing with with with Ed with Edyper. There was um I don't know a mind trap that you did with with with Edv. I don't know if you if you remember it.

>> I do. I do. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was many years ago and after that you know you you yourself uh got uh I don't know some transformative journey. So I wanted to know right now in retrospective everything that you online what you think about uh this uh this movement overall. Yeah, you know, it's an interesting question because I've had a few people raise this and I've come for um you know, uh I've come across many people or several people raised these concerns and

questions on the Quranist, the Quran alone, um Quran only, how you know these this this movement or this um philosophy. >> Mhm. >> So, here's where I'm at with this uh Theo. I feel that many people in the Quranist um way of thinking that they their hearts may have a very pure intention.

you know, they may have a very sincere love and I do see that in many people and I see a kind of dignity for the dean and to preserve the honor of the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam which I believe as do you know many Muslims and most Muslims ought to if not all Muslims ought to that comes above everything. Now, however, I do find that their passion in this regard is misplaced because look, let me tell you something.

This this this argument of the Quran first or the Qur not the Quran first Quran first I agree with 100%. Quran central Quran is like the sun in the solar system and everything else are like planets revolving around it that I agree with >> the Quranist how I understand it and maybe unless I'm I'm wrong which is fine >> you know the Quranist is that the sun has no planets around it >> it has no uh so the Quran being the sun in this metaphor it has no sun it has no I mean sorry it has no planets it has

nothing, you know, no planets, no moons, no there's nothing. It's just a sun. It's not a solar system. >> Um, >> yeah, >> this I >> Yeah, this I feel is is inaccurate. I also feel it's way too much of an overkill for a scenario where >> you see, look, we already have the correcting uh mechanism within our dean.

So for example the great legends of this dean like Imam Malik even Imam Abu Hanifh but especially the great legends uh of this dean like Imam Malik and Imam Abu Hanifh and other people from the Salah they differentiated between hadith and sunnah. >> So they said that hadith is like a data archive. >> Uh we respect it, we honor it, we venerate it. It is a sacred archive.

However, the Sunnah was the lived tradition. >> It was what the prophet taught and lived. These two may overlap, but they may not at times. So just because a hadith comes to you, Imam Malik brings several a hadith in his m by the golden chain even at times which according to Imam Bkari is the most strongest chain in the entire galaxy so to speak you know it is

from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. This is known as the golden chain. According to Imam Bkari, there isn't a single chain that can v or compete against that chain in Im Malik at times will even bring from that chain and then say you know we don't act according to this hadith. So absolutism is on one end of the spectrum.

hadith dogmatism that you know everything is dependent upon the chain. So the chain becomes the point of authority. this really which was inspired by Immah and obviously inspired with you know great intentions and great um and you've got to really get into some of the philosophy of why I im may have gone to this new paradigm >> and this was a paradigm you know paradigmatic change it was what I would

call a capernican shift Like just as with Capernacus, this was a Capernac shift in Muslim uh attitudes towards the Sunnah and hadith because prior to that the dominant heavyweights of the Salah, right? Because really the Salaf, if we're going with the understanding of the Sahab, the and the ends with the likes of Imam Malik.

IMF by that definition is not from the Salah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He's a great im of our tradition. You know, >> but to im Malik is but just a student >> amongst hundreds and thousands of students. He had now imaf is a great figure within Islam. But >> and is and Ahmed all of them.

>> Yeah. And immed >> and and you see the the reason I'm saying this >> is it's important to understand that prior to Imam Shea's time in the time of the Salaf how were people obtaining an understanding of the dean? How were they obtaining it? So they were inheriting a collective lived tradition of the dean.

So in Medina, Imam Malik was growing up with the lived tradition. People around him were the great grandchildren of the of the Sahaba, the companions of the prophet. 10,000 Sahaba were buried in Medina. Mhm. >> You know this this argument of where he tried to say to Malik that oh but many Sahaba left Medina and you know as much as I love Imam Le obviously with the name Abu but Imam Le was wrong because Imam Malik said her he said right here are buried 10,000 Sahaba >> died in Medina.

Don't say their teachings left Medina. you know, when when the person said to him that, "Oh, we want to study in um you know, I want to go to Iraq." And otherwise, Immalik had nothing against Iraq. Don't get me wrong, you know, don't I'm not trying to belittle that. He even sent >> he sent Assad over there because he said, you know, your MO is more in line with their MMO, you know, modus operandi.

But the point is when he was asked, you know, somebody said, "Oh, I'm thinking of studying the dean. I should I should go maybe I should go to Iraq, you know, or maybe and I im Malik said to him, he said, "It is here that the messenger of Allah breathed, lived and remains buried." >> He said, "It is here that the Quran was revealed.

It is here that the angel Gibl manifested." He said so if you want to learn Islam he said that it is here you will find the dean not take by taking up residence on the river banks of the Euphrates that this was Medina that the prophet the Medina. So you see to Imam Malik there was an inherited live tradition to Imam Abu Hanifh there was a tradition of Kufa you know coming right going back to the Sahaba that migrated and set up.

Now you see what happens. This is why Imam Malik will say things like look he brings the sun in the ma. Sometimes he leaves it out. Sometimes he chops it you know just half a sun. Sometimes he misses out names because the sun is secondary. The teaching is primary. >> The trust is primary.

Now what happens is by the time it's not Imam Shafi's fault per se. I'm not saying that it's not his fault. I'm not faulting Imm Shafi. I'm trying to explain the psychology. What happens is by Imam Shafi's time, the world is becoming a bit more cosmopolitan. People are traveling around. Imam Shafi doesn't really have a region that he can call his solid region.

He was born and as a young boy raised in Mecca. Then he went to Medina. Then he went off to Yemen for a while. Then he went to Iraq. Spent many years in Iraq. Then he settles in Egypt. There isn't a hometown to which he can say I this is our living tradition. So he I would say quite geniusly he needs something to compete with that what do you compete with?

So this person says this is the living tradition of Medina. This person says this is the living that's where the power is coming from. This person says Kufa. So he vests that power into the concept saying that well actually this is going to go into the is my power that is my legacy.

So if I have a that is my all of a sudden. So this becomes a capernican moment a shift within thought. Immaf's thinking goes on to influence what I call the second wave muadin you know the great muhadin and many of whom are in in kind of in their so there is a huge shift now the reason I'm highlighting this is coming back to the earlier the salaf of this um

they had a living tradition as I malik many hadith come. You know the the hadith of the dog licking the bowl. You have to get rid of you have to wash it seven times. You have to do this. You have to the dog's saliva is seen as according to the according to im Malik he said look he said this narration we know it don't know what its reality is though because the Quran says that the is

>> that you can eat the prey of the dog, the hunting dog. Therefore, how can its saliva be? He said, you know, >> he said, how can his saliva be reprehensible or or discourage or haram to eat if it's prey, hunting, hunted prey is halal. So this thinking it is already there in our tradition.

Now yes many people along the way the cultural war was won by the mahadin who are great people of this ummah. Not this is not to belittle the efforts of the mahadin. But the muhadi were people who they followed this sha shafite way of looking at things that if the sun is correct it does not matter what the mutton the matan is the body of the hadith the the actual teaching say that doesn't even matter that's secondary this has got shifted on its head really the teaching is primary

the sad is secondary now because the cultural war was I'm calling it a war but obviously this I'm exaggerating this is a metaphor. I mean look we we love all it's not to I'm not trying to you know say that these are are bad people. They're not. They're great people but their understanding I feel it it really uh unfortunately set a different trajectory for a lot of Muslim understanding later on Muslim attitudes.

So really what we need is a return to the Salaf, a return to Medina, right? This is what we really need. Now to say that look, I'm going to throw all hadith away to me it doesn't really make any sense because we know certain hadith are definitely correct because look, let's just take as a let's take as an example.

How do we know anything? How do how do you know that the the prophet's mosque is the prophet's mask? that the prophet is buried where he is or that the thing was you only know through transmission. Now let let me give an example you know when the Birming and this is a beautiful example I feel and it's very relevant to me that when the Birmingham folio came out uh with the manuscripts some uh folios of the Quran >> dating to within a few decades of the prophet's lifetime maybe to the time of in his lifetime >> and you have the folio mirroring the

Quran we have today Mhm. >> And some of the differences like so for example when it said um you know like let's say forismah >> do not say yeah >> and some of the other variants you have that in the folio showing up under the kind of deep investigative kind of analysis.

So this was already taught to us and the difference is how it was taught to us through the hadith. We did have this history saying that look these things were being said that you do not say bismillah here you do not. So those hadith have been proven today one could argue with some scientific rigor. So you have a kind of a different critical method of also verifying some hadith.

Now what I'm trying to show is that you know if some proves to be correct by logic and rationality that indicates that some other can also be correct. So what we do is we you see the teaching of the sunnah has come to us anyway through the through the teaching through the through the living tradition.

So there's ways of verifying. So to throw the entire corpus of hadith away to me is a great disservice to the tradition that we have in Islam. It is also a misplaced passion. So I would say that this uh um Right. So that's what I would say.

I'm Does that um >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I wanted I wanted to know your your perspective about around it you know some you you are talking about the there is like it is like like a sun you know and many things around it you know for for us the the Quran alone followers like we uh firstly uh like the term the the the term Quran is it is it is not the perfect term it is like a derogative term for Because like we >> Yeah.

>> Like it it is something that we we do not like to be called. >> Yeah. >> Because you know to some people by some tradition >> they place the Quran and Hadith as almost >> two suns like two stars. >> Yeah. >> Kind of orbiting one another. >> And that is not the accurate understanding.

Why? Mhm. >> But always has a margin of error. Even if you're going to say it's a 3% margin, that's a great margin. You know, that's a margin I'd take any day. Even if it has a 5% margin of error, over 95% that's a a mind-boggling margin of wow. You know, that's so epic that the Muslim scholars have it shows as a testimony to their will.

However, it is a margin of error because it's what did Im Malik say when he was asked about the living tradition? He said that my teachers in Medina have taught me that in that taking from oneonone it will snatch the dean right in front of your hands. He said a thousand from a thousand are more beloved to me.

So I take the living tradition over the narration. So >> and and this was taught to him by his teachers like and others which was taught to them by the which was taught to them by the Sahabah. So this is the kind of chain of the school of Medina. So I do my my thoughts to people who are Quran only or Quranist or um is that the passion may be uh something to preserve the dean or in love of its dignity.

However, I do see it as a misplaced passion because we have the mechanism. Yes, I agree with you that if you saw I agree that if you saw the hadith rivaling championing the Quran >> that to me is a flawed philosophy because the Quran is like the sun and everything else which is going to be the the the hadith.

It's going to be the principles. It's going to be other things. They all are like things orbiting the sun like planets and all sorts. And then planets may have moons and this is how it is. But it's it's not just a sun. It is a solar system. And it's a beautiful solar system, you know. So I I I love it. It's like and you know it's like earlier on I narrated a story >> about the prophet teaching through compassion through jubet and incident and how the and and that's a hadith you know.

So the the these things add color, they add fragrance to our fabric of this theme. So to to throw them all away, I feel Yeah. It's it's damaging. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just just just just maybe a final some something that I can that I can add. You know, >> of course >> about about about the the the sun. You know, the sun is there. We know the sun is the Quran.

But we do not we do not deny that there are historical accounts over over there. We do do not deny it. What we see, what we think, what what we're saying is that you know the sun is there and in the sun it says that we can be guided by the sun and we prefer having 100% certainty into what what's what's happening over over you.

We do not say that okay uh some people if some of if if some some people say that okay uh you have to do this like uh every every it comes that no I'm not saying this there are many that come and that can be we we can we can see it and we can appreciate it but >> the the first thing that we have to say is like okay the Quran we just the Quran for us can be um a way of being guided and that's for us what the Quran says

>> but we do not but but we do not deny historicity do not deny it we do not deny it we do not deny >> that there are many many many [Music] >> and sometimes and this look this is a journey >> sometimes we will find ourselves on certain parts in this journey Yeah. >> And you know, look, our understanding will grow.

>> It's not a and this is why I I don't say this in any kind of patronizing way. Like I say it in a way from look I too, you know, I I'm on a journey as well. We're all on a journey here. >> Our there's always growth. If there's no growth, then it's just dead. >> You know, unfortunately for organisms, unless organisms keep growing, they die. So >> or it goes extinct.

>> Yeah, exactly. And they go extinct. Even worse organism does not grow does not does not evolve. It just goes instant. >> Allahbar. Yeah. >> Right. Well, Fiero Shukran for all of that. I really appreciate and shukran for bringing up that topic. I appreciate. >> Yeah, I I really do appreciate I really appreciate what what you do. Thanks.

>> Sure. Allah bless you and keep spreading that peace and love in in the blessed lands of Sagalah. Right. Take care and speak soon. >> Right back at you. Right back at you. >> Allah bless you allaykum people. That was Theo. Um right from the blessed lands of West Africa. Allah abar. And let's see.

We have some people although right let's may have to keep some of this brief although I do get carried away you know there was a point here as well somebody I did bring it up uh a super chat about ah look at this y salam but it said about sunnishia agree on Eid and you see look it's it's the screen is moving so rapidly I can't y what's going on but in any case it said about Sunni Shia agree on so it must have another agree on most of Islam you know most of

Islam Sunni Shia agree on you know it's going to we diverge really our divergence is political let's you know that's the truth that it's it's based on historical politics and that's not to demean it not to belittle it but it is based on that on governance and who has the right to rule after the prophet and the philosophy of that and Sunni Islam and Shia Islam diversified then based on that and and the as well diversified.

So these three um but yeah but most of what we believe is uh going to overlap you know so we can always find more common ground than we can differences but you know it's that thing people don't want common ground they want you know it's that that meme that I don't want happiness I want problems always let's start with hisham aliamlay

Amen. How are you? >> Alhamdulillah. I'm with my little soldiers. >> All right. And Hisham from Sri Lanka, the blessed lands of Sri Lanka. According to some maybe with where man first Adam they believed so people there's at least a >> folk the highest highest peak in Sri Lanka it's called Adam's peak the highest uh >> yeah and you know some person um was explaining to me about that how

you know a while back we were having this discussion about how Adam cuz he was saying that he was you you have this term like um Adam as in you know people would say oh from Adam as in you know like this is since time immemorial but he was saying also in Hindi he'd come across it and but there it was linked not to Adam as in our Adam but to adi as in the old the ancient >> adi Yeah, like adi something and they would

say and with the Sanskrit I think suffix of like so Adam but so but that adi like they use the term adi something for like ancient um >> adivasi they call it >> adiasi the ancient li people who resided there and living. So he was explaining this theory of uh that how the term Adam may have been picked up originally from the ancient ancient Indians who used it and kind of made its way and and I found that actually quite not only interesting but with some value because I do think

that some of the um oldest civilizations, the Indis Valley civilization I feel went on to influence the Middle East and the Sumerianss and all of this and um so it's possible you know that maybe that people feel that there was something about historical man in that in those sacred lands. Yeah. But that maybe you never know >> I do not know how accurate this is but I came across Reaya where they said Adam came down to Sri Lanka.

Hala Alisam was uh she came down in Ja grandmother that's why that place is called Jida and they met in between I do not know the accuracy of this >> in Arafa they I mean I yeah >> have you been to Sri Lanka yet >> I I I would love to come I would love to visit I've not been I did used to when I used to study uh in the Madrasad there were several students um that were from Sri Lanka.

In fact, a beloved uh Sheh Mchid, I don't know if he's watching this. In fact, he messaged me not so just about a week ago or two. >> Mushid Mulchid, you know what? I don't know. But he's very he was part of the Tabliki thing. Uh >> is it him? Yeah, he's is very good friend of mine and you know we I mean he was junior to me when we were in the madrasa but he is a person with great character you know great alak and great um and he was telling me that part of his trip recently I think maybe with tablik or something they went to

Thailand and many of so we had several uh colleague students that were studying with us they were from Thailand as well at the time in the madrasa now they've got their own successful madrasas in Thailand So, and some of them are doing very well and and he put me in touch with he said he went there and he was speaking to this sheh who is a blind she who learned the whole thing through braille and and and he'd come across me and so and he mentioned to mush mi ab and you'd come ac and he said oh you know we used to study together and good friends and so we all he put us all in touch and but what a small world we are but yeah he's

from uh Sri Lanka uh originally. So >> yeah, >> a lot of Arabs and a lot of Arabic scholars who happen to come to Sri Lanka and travel across Sri Lanka, they have said one thing in common and they use this Arabic term. I can't actually precisely uh phrase it. They say this feels like Jenna on earth. That's number one.

>> Okay. Ah >> and two they say the reason might be perhaps because uh there must be some mercury to Adam coming here and that is why Allah has preserved this land so beautifully in its natural habitat >> despite having gone through so much of disaster and destruction the war and you know crisis after crisis after crisis and this place has not lost its spirit.

>> Yeah. I wonder if you know because stories are often myths, mythologies and myths and stories are often the the the uh the body of historic they are the platform for historical uh events. They're often narrativized turn into stories obviously up people add a lot take away.

So I do wonder sometimes you know how the Hindu myths that they have of all the kind of monkey deities, monkey gods. I wonder if >> Yeah. Hanuman. And I wonder if these are ancient ancient passed down myths of other homminins that coincided maybe even some uh cooperated with modern man and you know maybe with the offsprings of of Adam our kind of homo sapiens and maybe some having you know somewhat off they weren't you know

so people saw them as somewhat more cuz now we're finding out that homo sapien actually coexisted with a lot more than Neanderal. Like first the theory was we just coexisted with Neanderls but now you know there's a lot more. They arguing even maybe uh maybe even Homoctus was still around you know which has been the longest living human if so over a million years you know homohabilis homo flororences homo so and there's some mystery uh you know um homo something obviously denisan man but the maybe some of these were seen to some

people that later it got put into stories as these kind of almost like gods that helped that looked a bit more monkey than human to some people. I wonder like what how are stories uh passed down? You know, there's a a very interesting book I've got here somewhere. Uh it's called the edge of it'll come to me, the edge of something, but it's about collective memories and how they passed down through stories and how they get changed over time.

But some of these stories arguably, especially the ones in uh with the aboriges in uh Australia, they arguably date back to something like pre younger dus because you know they they speak of when lands were connected which were only connected pre you know so we're talking like 11 and a half thousand years ago plus. But how do they have these stories then?

And except they were passed down. They were turned into stories that oh this happened and that happened sometime and the stories are exaggerated and hyperbole and sometimes >> yeah and mythologized as well you know they turned into myth so you add all these super things into them but but they have there was like one story about um in America somewhere how the native Americans had this story of the dragon uh rests in a certain place and and the early American settlers didn't really ignored it.

And and after so many centuries, there was a like a latent hidden volcano, a volcanic eruption that it's very famous. Um I it kind of slips my mind now the incident but they and it killed so many people and that the Native Americans that would not inhabit that which looked like just normal territory because they had this myth from hundreds and hundreds of years ago that there was a dragon that lived underground that was very angry or something.

And now it's mythologized. It's turned into a story, but it held truth in the sense that the dragon was the volcano which and it killed people. And so it comes back to how we want to understand truth. I guess >> the volcano is the dragon. >> Yeah. Exactly. And so and and the American settlers found out the difficult way. You know, they ignored the myth and lived there and and many of them it cost them their lives.

So yeah, edge of memories. That's it. Yes. Shukran Shukran I >> I have a very very important question part of it which you answered with regards to the dog >> okay sure >> I I personally went through a lot in the last 3 years because of owning a dog my family friends disowned me people stopped visiting my home so on and so forth I want to know what is the the ruling on having a dog I'm still confused >> you know they say what's that poem

for [Laughter] you know that there's a poem the person says he says thank god I turned out to be disloyal because loyalty because you know in in Udu or Hindi there's it's a famous phrase that the dog is always loyal I suppose in English they say a dog is a man's best friend but in Udu or Hindi the popular phrase is that the dog is loyal uh utterly loyal So the person says on a play of words but yes zeroing in on what you're saying

that the ruling for owning a dog um you see the amar disagree with this the between themselves the school of Medina Imam Malik school the the school of Medina sees that every living creature is always pure. So that includes even a pig is not nudgous like if you touched a pig like let's say there was a pig here and you touched it you're not impure or let's say a pig came past you and touched your clothes let's say the pig had some sweat on it now you might want to wash it because it's got dirty but it's not

nudas there is a difference between dirty which is danus or uh and between nudas which is impure according to Islam so like somebody's you know, like let's say urine on on their clothes. Now, they're going to wash it. This is deemed impure from the shi perspective. It's not the same as just saying you've got, you know, something, I don't know, something else poured on you, even if they both, even if you got mud, let's say you've got mud on your clothes.

Now, the mud on your clothes might look worse than urine on your clothes. But the mud is not according to Islam impure, but it's just dirty. So you want to just wash it because it looks horrible and ruined your clothes. The urine is considered impure because it's kind of been recycled in that way. Now in Islam when it comes to creatures the school of Medina teaches and this is the teaching that I go with this is the teaching of Imam Malik that every living thing is always pure there is no exception.

So >> so is it okay to have a dog inside the house? So yes, so now just coming to that. So once you understand that secondly because you see to other schools like the sheer e school and the hanfi school the dog is impure with that it is nudas. So if it touches you it's impure if it you know it's salai because it's impure everything about it is impure.

So right from the beginning they are on different tracks. So one if you believe that every living organism created by Allah is always this is the principle and the law according to the school of Medina. So now you you're starting from a different point.

If you believe the dog is impure, then you see, you can understand why having it in the home is a problem. Because you're going to say, well, oh, because this thing is impure, you know, it might be licking the thing. It might be, you know, I don't know, it might be wiping its sweat on places. Everything about it is impure because you believe the thing is impure.

Whereas if you believe your your story is going to be different, you're starting from a different data point. You every so now as you move forward there comes this obstacle or this let's say there there is this point that oh there is a hadith that the angels don't enter. Now what is the ruling of that? So now to you now I do have a detailed video already that is it's one of my meaning with mountains where I go through the analysis of those people who said no this was referring to just uh in Medina

those who said no this was referring to specific to warn people from rabid dogs with rabies those people that was so there are different interpretations and because right and some people took it absolutely completely mut that no this means that any dog in the home you lose reward or something and some people said that no this was only to do with the prophet's house to do with revelation now different muhadin have that discussion I believe other muhadin have had this discussion by the way so but just circling back here

if you you see you've got to understand you see the way I'm facing is going to affect the horizon than I can see. >> True. So if I'm facing this way, I'm looking at something totally different. If I'm facing this way, I'm looking at something totally different. So those people who began by saying the dog is nudges. To them, this hadith is not necessarily challenging because to them, this hadith fits in with their narrative that well, it just complements that narrative.

They say, "Well, the dog is impure." Well, it makes sense because the angels want to you to keep your home pure. To the other ulama, the school of Medina, you see to to the school of Medina, the dog is not impure. So why would this now this is to them this now needs to be investigated because this now h this is a spanner in the works. It doesn't add up that how can it be that an angel doesn't come in or your risk you lose sorry not risk you lose reward but why like what this is a being so it doesn't add up now so to

that view which is the view that I follow which is the school of medina they've had to investigate this hadith this hadith is not isolated see think of desure who works in linguistics Semiotics, every word is connected. A plate, a cup is not just a cup. It is linked to the word plate. It is linked to the word mug.

It is linked to the word, you know, glass. It is linked to cutlery. It is linked like all things are connected. When we say this hadith of the angel losing reward, it is connected to the hadith that the prophet said if the dog licks your bowl, wash it seven times. One time according to the ri of Musn Ahmed, one time the eighth time with soil.

It is linked to the hadith that beware of the black dog. It is linked to the hadith that the prophet said if the dog comes in front of you even your salah forget your salah it's even going to break the salah. It's linked and we haven't got there, but this is right now. This is Think of this, this is abductive reasoning, okay? This is detective work.

Think of this as almost like a murder mystery. That's something this is linked to the hadith. The prophet said, "Kill the dog." It's linked, right? So, the question is, well, what is going on here? Now what we find what certain am I im Mazari alludes to this in his uh commentary as well on the and other people as well what we find is an now this is abductive re this is detective work so it's not inductive it's not uh you know deductive

reasoning is abductive reason this is like you walk into a house you see two cups of tea on a table you Right? Two people must have been sitting here. Now, it's possible one person made himself two cups of tea. It's possible. But abductive reasoning will teach you detective work. It's slightly two people were sitting here. Similarly, look, abductive reasoning, it's guided us that when the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam moved to Medina, >> many of the Arabs did have a fondness with dogs.

Nothing wrong with this necessarily. However, certain dogs it transpired had rabies. Now, rabies even till today if it goes beyond that time frame where you do not have the antidote, it is incurable and and it is fatal with resulting in death 100%. Now recently just last week there was a case in Pakistan where there was a miraculous healing for it's like a global case where a person miraculously survived rabies and and he's of the Quran and

it's on the social media where he's he's in that state where they've kind of tied him down. He's going through the convulsions and and he keeps making dua and he keeps saying, "Ya Allah, save me." And he he's he's reciting Quran and you know the power of belief. He is one of the few cases worldwide and it's documented on camera. It's all over social media and it's in some of the press that he actually was cured from having rabies beyond its initial stage.

So when they said there's nothing that can save him, he's actually got saved. Now that's a case study and doctors are trying to understand how he got saved. Now however generally rabies is fatal. Now not all dogs have this. However, as it started to appear some dogs have this. So initially the prophet tried to distance people by saying look don't buy and sell dogs.

So you know you put one but he saw that it wasn't enough. Some people stop other people didn't. They still then he said, "You know what? If a dog licks your bowl, wash it seven times once with soil." Now, some recent research has shown that soil when they've done when some studies have been done that soil does contain certain uh some soil, certain minerals and elements that in the open when tested can kill off certain viruses, especially if it's left open, including rabies.

And I'm not speaking about once it's infected the human, but when it's out there. Now, some there people can Google that. There has been some research to show that. But the prophet said this, okay, to create a distance between people and and these dogs to save them. Now, some people still weren't listening. So, the prophet then said the next stage, you know, if it's in your home, right, you're losing reward.

Why are you losing reward? Because there's potentially some people may be compromising safety, maybe compromising the safety of their children, right? Even then, some cases were dangerous. When the >> the dog said the you know when the when the dog goes past the person, the prophet said your salah breaks.

Why? Meaning abandon the salah even if that dog has rabies. Even if there's a potential, even if there was a 10% 5% chance this was a rabid dog, it's better to leave your salah and go, you can make up your salah. That 5% risk is even too much. The prophet said, "Oh, the dog is a shaitan." Which dog, that dog, because there were certain reports that that particular rabbid dog or those dogs, they appeared as this black dog that had rabies.

Therefore, the prophet's describing it as a shaitan. And therefore in some narrations he said kill it because it was too dangerous for the wealthy. Not that the prophet had an issue with dogs per se. So this is one understanding of the school of Medina. Now this to me is in line and harmonious with the general understanding that we have from the prophet because the prophet allowed kalbashia you know the kalbum mashia the dog the sheep dog because remember many people were

shepherds prophet allowed the kalbum mashia the sheep dog so he because they were not the rabbid dogs they were not the dogs that had rabies. So this makes sense, right? This is in harmony. Now I do respect, look, several Muslim cultures have not been brought up with dogs, including look, including me. I was saying to a friend of mine that I wish I had the skill of being, you know, I could just go up to dogs and pet dogs and do this.

I wish I had that. But, you know, being brought up as a this, >> do you have that? Oh, I I think it's like a >> superpower, you know, I would love to be trained on it, but >> I do have, you know, because being brought up as a thisi, right? We were not brought up generally with pets. We And as a kid, as a young boy in our neighborhood, there was this boxer dog.

You know those boxers? And he used to be loose >> and it would chase us and oh my god, I would run from it. Come running. It was like one of those and and then I remember when I was um probably about 13 14 a few doors down there was an uh like a German Shepherd dog always very friendly but this one day leap down and and you know like I don't know ever since I've had this like apprehension towards dogs like I can't like I honestly like I would love to extinguish the fear but but I do have this you know like especially the mean looking ones

Like people think, "Oh, he's just a dog." You think, "Oh, you know." >> Yeah, exactly. Like a Rottweiler. Like a these very bulldogs. These they look vicious, man. Kane Corsame, >> you know. Look at these Cane Cors. I mean, they look like it's the devil himself. >> And And don't get me wrong, if I was good with dogs, and I uh Sure.

I mean I would but I'm I'm unfortunately not good with them. But right my point of saying this is that look I do understand that there is a cultural sensitivity because many people may believe dogs are ness and because of that so we must respect that and engage it. So if it's in your own you you're doing it but if you're engaging with other people who don't you know to them that's a big no no then obviously one has to be sensible in how they engage these things obviously to many people like let's say to many people that that are hanni that

do believe dogs are nudes then if you were with them and you decide to bring your dog in the home with them and obviously it would affect them because they believe that so we have to kind of be are sensitive and emotionally intelligent to other people's beliefs. But let's say you had a dog like it just, you know, is outside or whatever it was and it's yours. And I I don't think I think the mis the the attitude to it has been wrongly aligned.

Islam >> that's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. >> I never had a dog inside my house. >> Why? >> In my garden. Why would Allah mention positively positively the dog in the Quran as the companion of the sleepers of the cave? Allah mentions and the dog lay there with his paw stretched out positively saying that the dog stuck with them.

you know this wafadar this loyal kind of you know the dog was loyal to the human and and it is like let's let's be honest I mean I was saying I have a unfortunately that thisy a bit of that phobia still but I try to overcome it you know in older age I've tried to but I but I everybody's in awe of how dogs protect uh you know people protect families so there's a wrong attitude out there that Muslims somehow hate dogs.

That that is not true. The Quran, imagine you're just reading the Quran. There's nothing anti-dog. Allah speaks about the dog being uh the loyal companion of the to the extent many people said, "Oh, the dog is in Jenna." Many of the said that with the Allah speak Allah speaks of the dogs.

>> Say that again. Kitmir they have given it a name. >> That was the name of my dog. >> Is it Kmir in Arabic is referred to also as the inner you know the thing of the date as well the inner kind of uh seed the car kernel right so but Allah speaks in the Quran about dogs that are a blessing for you that they hunt for you.

Allah says that this is a blessing. By his blessing you uh that you can teach dogs to go and hunt for you. That how is that in the Quran and dogs are some horrible thing? They're not. But I respect the sentiment but and you know the great legend of Mal of the Maliki school alawani whose home in abode I had the uh baraka visiting recently in the summer right now he was from and he's known as young Malik he's one of the authoritative figures within the school of madina

al- kawani now they call him Malik you know in this time he had a dog. Yeah. And they said to him, now look, people might say, "Yeah, but in their times the dogs lived outside in the front garden." And obviously because look, when you go back home in places like Pakistan, most people have dogs in that live in the villages. Our village, we had a dog.

So like in my granddad was very holy man. My dad's dad um lived right into his mid 90s, passed away at the age of 95. May Allah uh you know elevate his mamm in Jenna. He was very holy you know religious man prayed all his salah prayed uh every day tried to read the Quran. He was like a key disciple of one of the spiritual uh peas from uh there's a place called Kley in Azad Kashmir where we're from.

He and he would all only dress in the you know the white korta white kind of isar white turban all his life right now he he had a dog because they had we had animals livestock so they had a dog there and and it was like the whole animals are like an extension of the family I would see them talk to all the animals you know they would talk to I see my grandma talking to the goats she would talk to them what are you doing why have you been late come here you know do this do that and and There's nothing as cute as a as as a goat's kid.

You know, the baby goat is probably the cutest creature. They are too cute honestly. Uh but my point of saying this was in that culture people it's not like you know in the west here like the culture there is different people do keep pets generally outside. That's how in the veranda or in those places had a dog and some of the people came to him and they said uh ah you've got a dog you know like >> you know isn't there narrations about having a dog.

He said to him that look it's for my you know it's for my safety as well you know there's people sometimes people come break in you know it keeps the doggies alert dogs on guard and the person tried to tell him about the narration and Zed's reply was that if the Sahab he said you're telling me about dogs he said if the Sahaba reached our day and age his this is by the way he's from the 300s which is like almost 1100 years ago.

He said if the Sahaba reached our age, his age, not ours, they would have kept lions, let alone dogs to safeguard them, safeguard the he says they would have taken lions as as pets to safeguard them. He goes, "And you're telling me about kilab about dogs." So look, these were the legends of the school of Medina. So I do feel that there is a appre misapprehension misunderstanding.

>> The key question is sh let alone like let us say not security not hunting not shephering. Now is it permissible to have a dog as a pet? Yeah, because look if for you to have something by default it has to be it has to be permissible otherwise what you know to have something that is haram like let's say that's like saying you know oh uh because you're going to have it at home you're going to have it outside even if it's for your safety you're going to have a bond with it think about it you're going to have a dog like we've

now finally last I I got a cat. >> Oh no. >> Cuz for my little one, right, named Coco and Coco Nephi, we call it now. I'm I didn't grow up as a pet person. I honestly I'm so bonded with this cat. I mean, my daughter does the most with it, Zozo. But the and my little one, the cat is terrified from.

But the point is that I honestly have such a like a ficker like a concern because of the cat like I feel has the cat eaten uh has the you know it bothers me like I like I will be like I'll be like oh no like sometimes I'll be about to go to I'll be like I better go down make sure the litter is clean make sure it's got something to eat make sure the water is fresh you like I I and and and the hadith says that for you take care of any living thing Allah blesses your risk.

Right? Now, tell me, you bond with an a living thing. So, people who have dogs, even if you had it as a guard dog, you're going to bond with it. If it was haram, how does the bond make sense? How does any of this? It's weird as So, we're off on the wrong foot. So, these things by default are permissible. They are per now. Sure, maybe sometimes some permissible things might be discouraged depending on certain climates, you know, like some places maybe they're too much of a hassle or maybe it's occurred that certain dogs get infections or they

might become rabid or they might have so therefore it might be discouraged. It's better to just avoid it, you know, just be on the safe side in certain towns. But the thing must be permissible by default. You know, it doesn't correct me if I'm wrong. >> Uh Allah addresses these dogs as the learned ones, right? >> Yeah. That Yeah. That Allah says that if I'm not mistaken.

>> Yeah. That you that they learn. >> Yeah. I'll bring the verse. But that is the verse of where they go hunting that Allah says that by his by his blessing, you have been able to teach them that they learn from you. And so, >> yeah. So the thing is that this is a a blessing from Allah. Now I get it. Look um you know that we are not you know I get it that not everybody is uh familiar with these.

So here there is um where is it? Yeah. So this is in surah it's verse four from that yes what has been made halal for them and Allah says good things are halal for you now it's amazing Allah didn't explain what the good things were in this word good things but that your heart will know good things you see now that's a different discussion An amazing one.

And what you taught from those that can wound those that can wound. Right. Right. And what you taught from those that can wound and here it means those animals that can wound. you like and this is using that word once again.

Now can mean also about how to strike but it also uses the word teaching the dogs as well in that way because you teach them from what Allah has taught you. Eat from that which they catch for you as predatory prey.

Right? And mention the name of Allah and have consciousness be mindful of Allah. Indeed Allah is swift to take account. Meaning that because here Allah is mentioning blessings and blessings of risk. And often when we when it comes to risk, you see when we relate to others beneath us and this includes people and the pets that we might be cruel, you know, maybe somebody comes to us

needing risk. Oh, get lost. Get lost. Wai. The other day I watched I shared this video. Um there was this video on Tik Tok with this person who was like an imam that had left his job and he was just you know some guy's driving past and he stops and says I'll give you a lift and and the person just mentions that he's looking for work and his family of abandoned left him and so on but you know the the pain in his voice and he in between he said he used to be an imm and and he says wahi he says that may Allah never show the pain of you know this destituteness or like you know

this kind of this poverty. He says to any person especially a young man and he says because people turn but his words they Allah like I watched it I it broke my heart wall like I cried you know watching it I shared it to people and one person a very good friend of mine Dr. Imran um he alhamdulillah with through his contacts managed to actually find this person and reach out to him and inshallah he's trying to set him up as well may Allah bless him as well Dr.

Imran with an imam job I imama job and just trying to give him some risk that you see when people look to us we turn cruel you know that now and even pets people can be cruel so Allah says remember Allah is swift to taking account you know don't forget so Allah is reminding us because the discussion is about risk this is one and and many other meanings as well but sure I um yeah >> no you're very welcome Hisham shukran for bringing this discussion >> before I leave a short one where do you

think my son is a student of the Quran he's uh doing his papers also So he is enchanted. He's obsessed with the Maliki school of thought. So I want to know where I should send him for further studies. Which country, which place do you think is the best place? Either for us to settle down as a family or for me to at least send him out.

Yeah, I'm it's a a tricky one because you know there is no there is no um holy grail and no uh utopia and no garden of Eden. Um everywhere is >> Moritania Moritania is going to be tough as well though. God, it's going to be >> like >> it's going to be very old school and I feel that look in some ways >> maybe like do holistic learning as well

keep you know like like sure maybe if he can pick up some like he can do the religious basic if he can learn Arabic do some of the things maybe he can cuz you know in the madrasa there are several years that can be redundant as well and maybe you can skip them if you've done good enough learning to jump ahead and cover like let's say he does like a dora obviously he does his basic he gets his Arabic does each of the sciences but also learns in the worldly sciences as well if he can you know maybe go on to becoming something as well in in the dunya as well or have

something unless he's going to go off into business and that's another great opportunity as well >> the maliki madhab is frowned upon it's looked down upon upon >> the Malik mother was looked down upon. >> Yes. >> Yes. Now when I they see me praying with my hands down >> they look at me like I'm a kafir. >> Right now this is an ignorance but it's not. You see the Maliki Madhab has been one of those schools of thought that has always been revered like you know the haf and the >> I am obsessed.

I love >> I I it's been one of the I won't it's been one of those fraternities that I have taken immense pride in my life in being a part of that the school of Medina. Now look, some of the schools historically have always been at each other's throats like let's say the Hanafi versus the Shafi, but no school ever was at loggerheads with the Malikim. They even if they disagreed with them, but they were always like a dignified uh you know like even if you disagreed they were like oh you know they're the school of Medina you know they're like they were dons in their field and people always kind of

revered them. The sadd issue praying with your hands down the side. Now this is seen as uh you know with people right because it's new. You know there's a saying which is attributed to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and may not be I'm not sure whether it's really is a saying of the prophet however it's it's wisdom and it says

people are easily opposed to that which they are ignorant of. Now when you don't know something you become like an enemy of it. You become opposed to it. knowledge it empowers a kind of calmness in people or it ought to. So the saddul see now this is a beautiful example of u people who don't know s is having the arms down the side when you pray uh some people call it the non- malikis call it the malik call it sul

that your arms hang by the side now this often is not found generally in the hadith literature some indications to it there are Even in Bkari there's the famous hadith you know now that's an indication however one could argue that there is not a clear hadith speaking of the sudden and and you know there and in all fairness that is a case to be made.

It is because there is no clear hadith showing that the hands could be at the side. However, this is where the comeback is much stronger. You see the first point which the Malikia the school of Medina respond with and people may go in to kind of block that that is but they'll struggle even with that is that is that first of all there is no single hadith about where to place the hands in salah that is both sah and that is unequivocal has no problem in

its there is no single Even the one in Bkari that they're saying has a problem because of what the says in the he says he says all I know is I assume they're referring about the prophet. Now this caused problems even if says had he not said that this would have been a connected ch the action would have been referring to the prophet because the companion says that we used to he uses the passive um uh voice saying that we used to be commanded to hold our to put one hand above the

other or to hold our hands in salah. Now the question here was commanded by who? because he he uses the passive voice. He doesn't say the prophet commanded. He says we used to be commanded to do this. Then the narrator says, I assume that they're referring to the prophet. Now this shows that there is an assumption and the raw is saying that I assume it to be the prophet.

So here there is no single hadith in the whole corpus of hadith that is both sah and about the prophet telling you to hold your hands in salah. But even that is not the knockout punch if you like that the malikia deliver on this. The knockout is that this proves the point that there is a distinction between hadith and sunnah.

The hadith does not have it. However, the sunnah, let's look at who said to pray with your arms down the side. This is narrated by some Sahaba. It's even narrated by Ali. It's narrated by Abdub. It's narrated by it's narrated. This was the practice of the Mus who was the most knowledgeable of the according to Im Ahmed.

It's the trans. It's how Jubel prayed. It's the transmission of Imam O. It's the way Ibraim prayed his mab. It's the mad of Hassan Basari. It is the mab of Im Malik of Medina. It is the m of from Egypt. It is the madab of the Shia. It is the mab of thear who diversify in the time of the sahaba in the time of sni.

So the divergence of snali pray like that. The ones who oppose sa Ali pray like that. and the school of Medina prays like that. So you triangulate this to a time within the lifespan of the how can three diverse pinpoints, diverse angles that came away from Islam all agree on the way to pray salah and >> they were trying to prove their genuinity using s.

So no, but it shows that before the mabs, before hadith was even documented, you had the major splits in Islam. You see, because why is this interesting? Because when people split, they usually antagonize one another. So the early split in Islam was these three. It was the main body of Muslims, which today arguably is the Sunnis.

Then you have the Shia with the early split of Islam and then the Kawar. Now when people split from one another, what do they say? They say that oh this person what he's doing is wrong. This is what they say, isn't it? So one of the things you would criticize is how a person prays their salah. You would say that oh because this because remember you've split now. So you're going to say oh these people are on a wrong Islam.

This is the correct Islam. >> Makes sense. However, all three agreed that you pray with sul. These are the earliest divergences within Islam. But yet even all of them agreed that you pray with from the Sahabah you had it from the you had it. Look at the I mentioned the some of the greatest names

I all of these people they prayed look at layer beneath them the great imams Almah in Sham in Beirut he's praying like that IM Malik in Medina Imam Le in what is just outside Cairo is praying like that you know Tawus is praying like that in Yemen how how are all these people wrong is playing praying like that in with this proves that the sunnah predates hadith and the sunnah is a separate reality to hadith.

Sometimes the hadith does not capture the sunnah >> and sometimes as I imam Malik said that look the the hadith is somebody documenting something. Maybe they remembered, maybe they forgot, maybe it was an incident as I imam Malik said when somebody asked him about the adan. He said, maybe the prophet went somewhere one day and did that.

Don't we don't say there's anything wrong in it. However, this is what the children learned from the fathers who learned from the companions of the prophet right here five times a day. He said, "So this is the Medina." So the of the Medina was to pray with your hands on the side. Now that's not to say that if you want to fold your arms, it's nothing wrong.

As many of the Malikia said, look, whoever wants to, as Abdul, the dawn of hadith in his era, the great hid of the entire western Muslim world unrivaled. You know he was the rival in the west to Baghdadi in the eastbi in his ki he says he says you know they both from the teachings of the prophet

whoever wants holds his hand whoever wants drops his hand it's all good but in certain places because it's not known so they might assume assume you're from the Shia. So like when I used to pray in Pakistan initially I used to do sad then I realized look people don't understand sul and they um they think that you know oh that you're a so then I just started doing right I mean now I pray with sul but at that time when I used to pray you know that was 20 years ago budyag we

become old men now right so uh but at that time you know uh we I used to pray with just because people didn't understand it and you know sometimes you can educate people sometimes some you know you have to choose your battles not everything is a battle so you know >> on a lighter note on a lighter note here people play softball they come and ask me are your shoulders dislocated >> that's the funniest one that they said oh Imam Malik's shoulders were dislocated so his followers decided to pray like him.

That is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard. >> Right, let's wrap this up. >> You know what? Absolute pleasure. Allah bless two years of dua of was me encountering you. I want you to know that Allah Allah Allah Allah Take care of yourself.

Speaks >> my people. That was Hisham Al-Hilali from from the all lands are blessed. So from the blessed land I guess of Sri Lank Sri Lanka. Allah abar place we have to visit. Guys we have to wrap this up. But you know there there was a uh uh Muhammad uh you know what I have to wrap this up but I'll just bring you on say salam.

>> It's okay. >> I'm ever so sorry for you know I know you waited so patiently and I love the setup you've got in the background right there. I mean it would have made a I see the beard coming on strong. Allah abar look at the n Allah loving it. Loving it brother. So I know it would have been a a beautiful discussion as well. If there was anything brief uh you know you you'd like where where are you joining us from by the way?

>> Uh from North America. I can't get enough uh threats that I have to hide. >> Allah Allah keep you safe and sound. I mean but I'm sorry about the time frame. So we've really got to go. >> I understand I it's but I will be doing these regular. So, I'll get you uh get you back on. Inshallah. Okay. Okay. Cuz I've been trying to have a conversation with you.

A lot of my viewers keep telling me to have a conversation. >> Is it okay? Oh, wow. Okay. What What were the the advisory things on? I mean, what's your >> No, I uh like usually when it comes down to the uh Quran alone movement, like my brother was talking about, I I have one of our one of our one of the more bigger channels. So uh I thought they they wanted me to >> Okay. Okay.

Sure. So okay. What's the So very key proponent of the Quran only. >> Oh wow. Okay. Okay. I mean see I did go through that in much detail highlighting that you see I feel that like what it is >> I know but >> I feel people are angry and so because they're angry you see that like what they're doing is they're throwing everything away almost with that rage and it's not rage it's not anger it's dedicating yourself to be loyal to God you gave the example of the solar system

of the sun and it has to have planets around. Okay? So, if we're going to equate the sun to the Quran, therefore, we're equating the sun to God, the light of God, uh just because God has servants around, it does not mean that we need to sit and start to watch what the servants are doing or doing what the servants are. We need to stick to God, right? So, obviously, God alone is the light and everything outside of that is not necessary. So I understand you have the concepts of the living tradition and you have the concepts of studying hadith but it's probabilistic.

So but the Quran there's no probability. So look, let's just take here right now. We had a verse uh which was I was speaking to uh Hisham Al-Hilali on >> Yeah. Allah bless Imam and bless everyone. See the verse said that just picking on what just building on what you were saying brother um is it Muhammad is that the name Muhammad?

Yeah, Muhammad. Yeah, brother Muhammad. >> Right. So Allah says about animals that the these kind of hunting predatory animals that can go out and kind of strike, >> right? That you can eat from them that you teach these animals from Allah. So what from God taught you.

So exactly. So this is exactly how it works. So, so this thing of saying that Allah, you see Allah's teaching and guidance to us is through people as well. >> Yes, he sends messengers. >> So, you said, but also of course, but also, >> so you know what you said about look, well, we have the Quran. We're not here to sit around looking at other people teaching us stuff. But we are as well because look Allah is telling us that he teaches us many things and he teaches us also through people as well.

>> I mean equating ourselves to the animals in that conversation is not how it works. You're right. God does teach people and people do teach us. >> I'm not I'm not equating us to the animals. I'm saying that Allah is saying that you teach the animals from what Allah has taught you. And what is it that Allah has taught you? How to hunt. In this verse, it's speaking about how to hunt. >> Correct? >> But Allah hasn't taught you how to hunt in the Quran. There's no hunting chapter.

This is Allah has taught you through instinct. He's taught you through intuition, through the rationale, through one another, through watching, trial and error. Now, so but and and above fraing you can learn how to trap, make traps, how to hunt. somebody can teach you how to uh you know sharpen >> with all due respect mi that's that's not the discussion of what the Quran alone movement is we do not deny people uh are capable of applying the Quran differently or understanding the Quran and then therefore teaching other people there's many verses that states that clarify >> no that's not the point that what you said was that you said right okay sure

but if you the case to answer in this particular point and sorry for interrupting you is that responding to your point you'd said that look if we say the Quran is the sun and there is a solar system there is no solar system because Allah only wants us to learn from the Quran not from people and maybe I misunderstood you but that's what I heard you say so I said well actually you know just very on point there's a verse here saying Allah teaches you things now those things in that verse that he teaches you are not in the Quran.

>> So the thing that I was trying to express is that if God is the sun and we have people orbiting the sun and things that are orbiting around those objects, right? Uh the fact remains is that we're orbiting back to the sun. So the light the nor is God, right? So the unfortunate part is in people who are following hadith, they're orbiting things that are not aligning with the sun. So it's their own orbit and it's like an asteroid that's off the system off the course and it's not necessary because even if you are a planet or if somebody who you're following a planet it is always easy for you to go back and orbit the sun.

So the Quran alone movement is just saying that we do not need to go into dwelling and giving apologetics to certain hadith where the hadith itself is contradictory. You gave a very long apologetics on how dogs could have been understood that they have rabi rabies rabies and you were trying to attach much hadith but it's not necessary that's the whole concept of or animal but you see do you not feel that in this you see and this proves my point or I feel it proves my point maybe I'm wrong that you see that there is this frustration and anger

the which is to do with certain problems which we have certain views unfortunately sometimes certain Muslim attitudes which are justified at times by hadith. So people use hadith to justify certain things and and you know sometimes do you know they they do monstrosities based on that.

Now in the face of that because I'm sure we wouldn't be having this conversation if if all the hadith only mentioned let's say non if there were no problematic data in some hadith like let's take the age of Aisha. Now that's uh I feel an inaccuracy and in fact a fabricated hadith but let's say there were no hadith that were problematic. We wouldn't be having this discussion. You wouldn't really have a problem.

So the real problem is because there is some data which conflicts with our harmony of the deen. So we feel that look this doesn't make sense. So in response to that either we deny the entire reality and existence and the whole corpus of hadith or we kind of take the bull by the horns and learn that many am before us also in this tradition problematized hadith for this very reason and you know many of them did they did kind of say well thereby these hadith are

problematic and we reject and we go with the sunnah as opposed to hadith. But the Quran is always first. The Quran is the ultimate. Nothing. There is no, you know, the sunnah is not secondary. It's like a planet maybe orbiting. It's not a sun in and of itself like that. But yeah. >> No, I I agree. There is definitely the concept of sunnah which the Quran talks about. But uh whatever you said can be applied to the Bible.

So the Quran being a criterion, you can take it with the American constitution and run the American constitution what people say about laws and how society should be and run it by the Quran and Quran filters that makes it great. But we're saying that the hadith itself is not a necessity for you to find guidance. That's what the Quran alone movement is. And this is I believe the position of most of the they learned from the prophet obviously and they learned from the from from the the the the messages of the messenger and in regards how he applied the Quran.

Is that preserved? We don't think so. I think there's some traces of what the prophet might have said outside of the Quran, but it's not going to be legislative. Uh unfortunately, even like the people where you're talking about the people of Medina and what they were teaching, it's contextualized to them. If the prophet was alive in this day and age, his sunnah, his application, his wisdom on how to apply the Quran would be different. And that's what the Quran alone movement is. We're we're evolving with the time while sticking to the Quran.

>> But is it not? You see, in essence, I understand what you're saying, right? Um, when you're saying that, let's say the um, you take the practice of the people of Medina, that was kind of contextual to that culture or whatever it was in Medina. And so, if I'm understanding you correct, if the prophet was in a different town, it may have reflected that culture. It may I I don't think anybody disagrees in with that so much.

I think that's kind of uh um the the issue seems that is it an issue of epistemology is it an issue of principle and philosophy >> issue of universality my my good uh brother it's universality so the hadith does not make the religion universal it's not international religion when you want to attach those concepts of 1400 years ago for Arabia the religion is universal for everybody in the world.

>> Sure. Are we saying so just to be clear for most people Islam was never ever historically like if you take400 years as a kind of spectrum most people have never really um learned Islam through hadith per se. >> This is a very very ultraodern ultramodern phenomenon. Ultramodern the >> this is like probably in the in the last I don't even think 50 years.

I think we're talking like really maybe the last uh 30 years this >> fundamentalism >> uh yeah but not just fundamentalism we've had this approach of which has become really popularized of saying look why don't you read Bkari read Sah Muslim readi and learn your these books were not generally available >> and they definitely were not accessible by the masses uh this is not how like if you went back 200 years uh you know you You traveled through and 200 years is not that long considering Islam being around for 1400 years and you went to any part where Muslims were and you learned and you

just observed like ethnographically how do people learn Islam. Nobody was learning Islam very I it's incredibly rare. I'm not saying nobody maybe there was a person or two. It's it would have been incredibly rare to find a person learning Islam through hadith as in they got the books of hadith and studied Islam. People learned Islam through what is generally through what is the tradition that is passed down that has been the tradition for 1400 years hadith that we now I have a collection of hadith called you know sahi ori abu or bkari and I learn my through these books

is a very very ultramodern phenomenon like only spanning our lifetime this has probably happened within my lifetime I'm seeing this but people are assuming they're back projecting this and assuming people have done this. They haven't. Nobody has like show any show any ethnograph show the biographies where people have ever said this is how they learned Islam. They didn't. They tell you how they learned Islam in all of their biographies, right?

You just have to read any of the they tell you exactly how they studied Islam. They studied it just through. >> I agree. So, >> so what so does the not broadly broadly I'm not saying in every masala just generally speaking capture the sunnah >> so to just to push back a little bit I do agree that in recent history there has been a lot more ind indoctrination and a change of the application because of sectarianism and geopolitics but this is also because knowledge has become accessible for people especially with the internet and people are able to go look into those books and to see the

discrepancies and the contradictions. And so therefore before for a very long time people had to go to someone for that person to teach them where the knowledge was available. And this is where you have the schools in Medina, the schools in other schools and uh the the universities in Egypt. But uh we started to realize that they have veered away very early from what has been taught and that style of indoctrination worked before because people did not have anything better to look at.

They did not have the knowledge. But as the knowledge is being shown, we we are realizing that the community is in the state that it's in. All these division, all these sectarianism, all these problems, all these extremism and uh at the other side, the ignor the ignorance is because people have forsaken the Quran. And this push which existed from the time right after the prophet passed away, it's trying to put the Quran truly first. Yes, all of the sects say that Quran comes first, but they they don't genuinely put it.

That that's the problem. And that's why we're showing which you're assuming is an extremist position where look we'll deny the authority nor the necessity of anything outside of the Quran as religious authority and we're doing just fine and that and that's what it is. So >> sure. No, that's you know what this is uh I do like the uh discussion. Um yeah and I feel that it's necessary to have these discussions because you see what we can't do is you can't just >> I don't mean to interrupt because with all due respect you're a person who's willing to discuss the majority aren't and that's the problem.

You see like the Sunnis and the majority of the Shi and the Sunnis they just put you to the side and they don't want to have an internal discussion. You on the other hand because you're learned and because you're a person that understands that God is about forgiveness and mercy and that there could be problems you're having that discussion but this is a you within yourself in that community is a minority because we're not taught to be like this. You see also I like look >> do you agree >> whatever no I of course I agree with you that there is a lot of uh I agree with you that of course that there's a lot of sectarianism a lot of closed-mindedness um I think you know coming back to a bit circling back to what we earlier on were

speaking about or sorry I was speaking about with one of the questions earlier on about really primarily this deen is a rahma >> it is a mercy And you know that is the lens that we through our journey of a lifetime hope to arrive at inshallah at some point where we can see through that prism of rahma and to understand that look so even though let's say on this principle I do passionately disagree uh and I and by the way I'd love to somebody was saying here as well in the comments maybe get you back on a mind trap where

we could discuss this. Um I I'm you know I would love that of course >> that would be amazing. Yeah, to be to be honest, >> right? And look, I I feel that this fundamentally you anyone that is speaking about the Quran only movement, they are speaking with a love and passion for the Quran and for the deen.

Now above all there is that love and passion cuz you're not dedicating your life to something you know you're not sitting there saying you know oh uh you clearly look just I mean you've got a beard that's so much longer than mine that would please all the Salafia immediately you know like you you've got like you're somebody that I'm assuming clearly has dedicated an immense passion and time of your life to to the dean 15 years, >> right?

So, yeah. So, wow. Right. So, that is you see that is what we is locked in with the mercy. Now, understanding that now even if a person disagrees or doesn't disagree, there is a passion, there is a uh a devotion that you have for the dean unquestionably, you know, regardless of and then we've we've got these points.

Well, what do you think of hadith? Is it an epistemological issue? Is it a this issue? Is it a that issue? Why are you problemat? And the reason I was saying that about epistemological or principle is one is somebody saying that look we've got no problem with the teaching of let's say additional teachings of the prophet or guidance or whatever it is or through the companions or whatever it is but we are not sure that they've reached us through a trustworthy source.

Therefore we can't take them. Now that therefore is an epistemological problem. The other is a principal problem, an ontological problem that we're saying that actually guidance cannot come like additional guidance. There is no additional guidance to come. So there it's not regardless of the channel in principle the thing doesn't exist. So and I tell you what we can inshallah pick up on this in the mind trap.

>> Sure. Um and so yeah, brother Muhammad, I think and I think look >> dialogue is the only way you know there is no other way. um because because people are coming with a passion and I personally feel this is my exper this is and maybe you know to me this is what I'm experiencing and you know maybe it's misplaced or misinterpreted but I feel that in my experience that a lot of people are just frustrated and angry and there's almost like a um >> ignorantly frustrated >> sure but no but I mean from the sometimes I mean from the Quranist

perspect perspective that they are angry with what they're seeing and and I'm not saying and I may agree with a lot of maybe I don't know all of the things but I'm sure I could agree with a lot of the frustration that they're seeing hadith being applied in a certain way like kill the apostate or uh you know you can force people when it comes to religion when the Quran says you can't or child marriages when I believe that this is is is unislamic and not allowed and I feel that this is a misinterpretation misread misreading there is a difference between I do agree

that where people understood that once uh girls were nubile that there may be an age variation between cultural and historical and between that and a child which was a clear like something like saying a six-year-old 7year-old an 8-year-old 9year-old like the these were seen as clear children now things like this to other kind of Sometimes you might get misogynistic expressions that people attribute to hadith >> to the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and and sometimes some things which I feel are dishonoring the prophet um you know by saying attributing uh

wrong things to I I feel you know horrible things like trying to say oh the prophet became impotent or things like this you know just because they they want to prove that magic exists. So I find I would be 100% fighting that same battle. But I feel sometime that many of the Quranists because of that frustration and anger and that kind of as a reaction throw the whole body of hadith away and kind of disown the entire corpus.

This has been my kind of I don't know like what what I >> my kind of reading of the Quranist kind of movement and that's where we you know stand >> comes clearly >> that's kind of like the straw man of who we are. Yes there is obviously a range and there's like some people who are really passionate in certain things and as you said their passion is incorrect but there's the the actual position is that we do not deny history we do not deny tradition we're denying the necessity of it.

So it's not that we throw the whole hadith in the water and that's it and everything's wrong. There is a sense of betrayal on the people who preserve the hadith. We we can prove that. But it's more so of what God is truly saying in the Quran that it is the the what you're talking about is truth. So whenever truth comes to you, if it aligns with the Quran, it's true. So it doesn't matter if it's a Chinese proverb or if something that they alleged that the prophet said, the truth is the truth because the Quran is proving that truth in regards to religion.

So it's we we just simply do not need it. However authentic or not authentic it is that it's not necessary because whatever the Quran is teaching you it is what taught or what uh God has taught the messenger and the messenger applied. So we're talking about application more so than the actual creed and religion. And that's why me and you will will will will like be aligned with the majority of what the religion preaches. One God the day of judgment be good to people.

Uh be good to your parents. Uh pray give from what God give you. The way that we do that might be different, but that's exactly what guidance is. So, it's not about history and what people did in the history. It's it's literally upholding the word of God. So, I feel like there's a straw man in people understanding our positions because Sunnis always take us out. Oh, oh, they so if you deny hadith or if you deny Quran, where's Mecca? That's that's not what we mean.

>> Sure. I So, inshallah, uh, brother Muhammad, I will Let's get you on a mantra. Let's get a mine trap. >> And I want you to have the opportunity I want to uh you know give you the opportunity to steal man your argument. >> Cool. >> And to kind and and and then let's uh kind of discuss it have at it.

>> Cool. Cool. God bless you. >> Competitive nature. You know the adversary is that which you know you know true adversary is where one can steal man in a competitive spirit the other person's argument and then in in in true you know true being true to themselves with with that genuine rigor have at it and and at the same time have that kind of brotherhood.

So okay let's let's do it. >> I I don't think it's competition between us. That's that's my point. >> No I don't mean it competitive in that sense. I don't mean it in a horrible sense. I I meant it in a nice >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know friendly batter because at the end of the day isn't me and you the goal for us personally and not to other people but personally for us to get closer to God. So it's about the fruits of what we're saying and the application.

I I do believe you're a sincere person and you practice what you preach. I can tell from the way that you speak Allah may God bless you and increase you. But the goal is to see if maybe modifications to what we already know gets us closer to God. >> Let's let's do this. Okay. If you're on uh you you must be on Instagram or something. Reach out to me. >> I'm not on Instagram. I I am on uh Discord. I actually joined Discord cuz >> you're on >> that to do you have I have Tik Tok as well which is Muya and I have Discord as well which I'm sure my name on is just Muyab on that as well.

>> Do you want to reach out on Discord or Tik Tok. >> Sure. Either or. Or I'll tell you what, drop me a Discord message because obviously if you're not on Instagram or worst case, you can drop me a message on because I'm just trying to cuz what what is there that's public that you could just drop me because I don't have your number. So what we could do is if you just worst case if you even if you just go to Yeah. Discord is fine. in Muya or patreon.com/mal and you could just drop me a message and just say uh you know this is my number and then I'll just reach out to you and we'll connect and yeah we we'll do this let's do this inshallah if you know I

think it'll be a fruitful discussion and shukran and shukran for waiting patiently and my apologies for having you uh it's just we got carried away as you can see the conversation even this I felt I I didn't know who you were by the way but I felt there's been this that you'd been there waiting so patiently while so speak well because >> I mean in the Quran alone movement your name comes up often because of your Bkari gate series which is very honorable and and a lot of people look up to you and people keep pushing me to have a discussion with you.

It's not again it's I have a lot of respect for you and I understand also some of the history because of you being honest on how people treat you. So there is a lot of common ground between us and you're an individual that truly shows like if the sunnah is preaching. Look if we can't if we can't have you know somebody said earlier on a question about Shia or about other sects and I said look how much we have mutually between us you know if we can't find the decency to even have a good heartfelt conversation with one another where is the humanity you know we failed as a as a human species if we can't even do that right >> so well >> and we have to hold on to the rope of

God regardless and God will judge between us on the day of judgment who is right It does not mean we sit and segregate and as God says that it's wrong. So >> if Yeah. Yeah. Of course not. Of course not. Allah bless you Shukran Muhammad and yeah drop me a message and we will we will connect and have that mic. >> God bless you >> people. That was Muhammad from the US uh the Quranist uh movement.

A pleasure. I and I I really do look forward to having him on Mind Trap. Yeah. And I want to give them an opportunity to and anybody on any discussion I want to allow them to steelman their argument and I want to then steal man it to say that this is just so I'm not strawmaning an argument and then yeah and then let we can have our dialogical dialectics.

Hi. Hi. Hi. Then the philosophical gloves will come out and in a fun nice way. You know what it is? I do I do enjoy the sometimes I enjoy it too much. This is the problem. This is why I take myself away from it. I think yeah I enjoy it too much sometimes that oh that I can that intellectual engagement Allah Allah so I feel sometimes yeah the ego must be coming out humble yourself step away from

this stuff right so people Allah bless you all and right so yeah those of you Uh do like, subscribe, leave a comment, like the feed as well. Yeah, people don't even see. We were speaking today about kindness. They don't even like the video. They stay and watch it. Yeah, like it just that's how the algorithm works.

And yeah, leave a comment. I do read the comments. And if you want to connect, of course, Instagram. I am on the other ones, but I tend to check Instagram more. I mean, I'm not really on the I am on Tik Tok, but I don't really It's too addictive. So, I try to avoid it. And I'm on Facebook, but I seldom check it.

It's just it's linked with my Instagram, so it posts it automatically. But yeah, Instagram, YouTube, Discord. I do have my Discord channel, which is through Patreon. So, those of you that are interested in one-to-one consultations that you know where there's a kind of like a almost like a mentorship um kind of program where you know you channel through we have one session a month and I also have the and then you're part of the discord group and there is a lower tier where you can just be part of the discord group where I do have my bi-weekly

um or fortnightly kind of sessions uh on there as well just a live stream, just a quick voice channel, not quick but a voice channel chat on there as well fortnightly. Allah bless you all and yeah, it's been a pleasure really spending this time with you guys today. So take very good care of yourselves. Have a look at this. See what a beautiful message to Allah bless you all.

Honestly, you know, one of the things with time as well, I feel and with aging, you know, budyag, I am now what am I approaching 50? Uh 48. That's what I tell people. Anyway, so yeah. So now the you know one thing I really do learn is that it really is about compassion it really that is the dean you know it really is and if we haven't learned that it's about the connection connecting with

Allah with people around us you know having that connection you know we walk on this path with one another. Allah bless you all. office.