Bushra Shaikh | Hijab, Hustling & Harmony in relationships | MindTrap with Mufti #35

All right, people. All right. So, just very quickly, I'm just going to do a uh quick sound check just to make sure the sound's coming through fine.

I'll just bring up Mi Gente on YouTube. There you are. All right, people. All right. Just make sure I can see it. Yep, it looks good here. And on Facebook, what is going down, people? All right. Mhm. I take it that's all good. Excellent.

Well, people, let me just bring before you the profile picture that you're seeing. That is right there. Bushra Sheikh from South England, London, UK, an empowering Muslim role model for uh for for young women, especially Muslims, uh creating a mind, a mentality of entrepreneurship, promoting how to balance uh religion and work in life.

Let me just bring on our guest. Uh salaam alaikum. All right. Bushra, Wa alaikum taking the time out to be with us today. I know it's We've had a few technical issues, but I suppose the audience they used to it.

They're like, "Well, I'm sure Mooji's never on time anyway." So It wasn't bad. It was all right. All Look at that. It's just all right, which means that that was that was absolutely pathetic. That's just You know, if somebody says it was all right, that's That's just like Allah Allah Allah.

So Bushra G the world knows you or many of the world or much of the world, sorry, may know you from The Apprentice. The Apprentice, a huge competitive runner-up amongst other things, but let's let's hear a bit about you a bit in your words about your journey um to to the audience.

Okay. All right. So, I will keep it brief, nice and short. So, history is fashion. So, my background is all about design, textiles, technology. Decided to take this leap of faith after I started my business cuz I've always been an entrepreneur. So, I've done multiple businesses, all of which have always been related to fashion in some way. Um once I had my online business called Ayla, which is a modest Islamic well, modest faith brand I then decided to go and audition for The Apprentice for BBC One um 2 years ago, which, you know I would say alhamdulillah, I got chosen

out of over 60,000 applications, which is 60, 60,000? 60,000 applications in my I check you are bragging, huh? That's quite a That's quite a selection that is. It's kind of cool. Uh you know what? The thing is I actually didn't know that until afterwards. They said this year we had the most applications, which was which was crazy. So, that was series 13. Wow, okay.

So, yeah, I had my little stint, I call call it a stint for 9 weeks on The Apprentice. Wanted to have funding for my my online brand, and that's how the new journey began. All right. Masha Allah. Right, so yeah, I mean, do you still get, you know, for the the whole Apprentice thing, do you still get spotted out for that? Do you still If you're wondering about, people go, "Oh, The Apprentice is Is it Does that still happen?" Or Do you know what, right?

When I first came out, it was the most surrealist thing ever because people used to stop me in Tesco, um because they would know, "Oh my god, you're Bushra from The Apprentice." And it would all have been weird. And for some of those who know, and others, you know, that don't, I actually used to wear the hijab, and um and it was easier for people then to spot me because they knew me as Bushra with the hijab on. Now I get something a little bit different.

So, people Mhm. think they know me, but they're like, "Have I seen you at a wedding?" They're like, "I know you from You're like, "Hm, that's uh I I I invest all my life's hard work to be this entrepreneur, and you say, 'Do I know you from a wedding?'" They say, "Are you Are you auntie's daughter?" And I'm like, "Who?

Which Which auntie?" And then afterwards, cuz I don't like telling people where I believe they know me from, but then when I mention The Apprentice, they go, "Oh, THAT'S IT. THAT'S where I know you from." So, yes, and now it's a little bit different cuz people are kind of confused when they see me. All right. So, I'm sure The Apprentice is huge. It's huge. I mean, so many people, you know, watch that. They follow it.

The The And that that genre of TV as well, the whole Worship it. They worship it. There's some crazy The Apprentice fans out there like Hell yeah, there definitely are. I mean, how was that by the way working with Alan Sugar and doing How How How How was that? And what was the period of the the whole thing that you spent with him? Or with that team, sorry.

Um You know what? It's It's a long time from start to finish. The format of the show is incredible. There's about 250 people behind that show, and that's honestly. Um and in total Guys, there's about There's about 220 behind this show. Don't worry. Wait. We're getting there. This over 200 bodies behind that show. So, you know how much money the the BBC make from that show.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be in series 15 now. Um but so in total, I'd say 6 months. But it because actually, it's a year from audition stage before you go into the first day of filming. So, it's it's a very long, incredibly tedious process. Really, really hard. Wow. Okay. And And was uh during that time because obviously on the show, you've got, you know, this this figure, this personality of Alan Sugar, but it doesn't mean that necessarily all the participants or the, you know, the candidates, they they necessarily have a kind of relationship

with him during the show. It could be that he's absent. Or do you have that Did you Did you guys used to have a bit of a kind of like a bond with him? Or did you hardly ever see him? What was the What was that like? So, you you just don't have the time, number one, to build a bond with him. He's definitely aware of who you are because you've got to submit your your business plan beforehand. So, he knows who you are and you get to meet him in in like little pockets.

Actually, the people that get called into the boardroom more often build a better relationship with him because they get to talk to him a lot more. Of course, what what the viewers see is what 50 55 minutes. It takes us days to film 55 minutes. Wow. So, so in actual fact, we do get to see him and meet him a lot, but it's also a television show. So, so the time with him is much less, but the production value is hours in order to get all the scenes they need.

I see. All right. And So, the question Oh, by the way, if you had let's say you I mean, you reached the ninth week out of the 10 weeks. If you if you'd gone the whole way, how many other you How far when when you'd got right close to the end, how how many people were left? What's the because I'm not a somebody that follows The Apprentice so closely or things like that.

So, I left week nine. Okay. There were only So, in total, we started off, I believe, in my series with 18 candidates. We we actually had more candidates in my year. Um usually it's 16, we had 18. I got to week nine and there were only six other people in front of me and five go into the final five. Wow. Okay. And what would have the opportunities been like had have you made it right through?

The opportunities It just meant you had more of a chance of getting really showcasing what you were made of. Um it all because basically, what happened to was I never was called into the boardroom. Okay. The week I got fired was the only week I'd ever been called into the boardroom. So, and it was because I was thrown under the bus. Okay. And I believe at that time, at the time I wasn't so confident with arguing cuz I'm not a confrontational person.

And I believe that if I was more confrontational, I perhaps in hindsight I could have got What When you say thrown under the bus, and since we love controversy, what why were you thrown under the bus? What's the Well, I just had the odds stacked up against me. I had I had one girl that knew that I was probably the biggest competition to her. I had an existing business.

My My business was making money. I'm incredibly vigilant. I am so like I'm basically an all-rounder. So, she could see that I would be her biggest competition. And there was another lady that was there that was just She was just a massive giant with this huge voice, and she would just like bulldoze you out of the way. So, either I was going to go up against her, but what I didn't want to do is I didn't want to leave projecting myself in a particular way that I wasn't.

So, I wanted to leave with my head held up high. Because after I came out of The Apprentice, people had a lot of respect for me cuz they said I didn't go in you know, I wasn't there to argue and fight with them. At the end of the day, if Lord Sugar wanted me, he would have kept me in. Sure. Sure. Sure. And you went in with an existing business that you'd had for a while, and you still have this, isn't it? What is it? Isla, is it? So, okay.

So, talk to us a bit about this What's What's this all about? Isla? Okay. So, Isla, everyone, you can go online. It's called ilacollection.com. It's a modest fashion brand for anyone of any faith. Women, at the moment we don't do a men's collection. Um but Isla's my little baby because Isla was the product of two other businesses that I'd started in 2010.

Okay. So as an entrepreneur, as people that do business, you know it's always really risky. So there was uh that was that was basically the penultimate business plan after I had tried out two other ones and realized this was the one that was going to make me money. All right. And that's still I thought funny the third time. That's still running. That's still flourishing. Yeah, it's still running. We've kind of slowed down a little bit but there's various reasons for that.

I can't be in three places at the same time. So I had to decide which direction I was going to go in. Isla is still very much running and inshallah we will have a new collection which is going to be the right collection at some stage but with the whole COVID thing and because I I produce my stuff abroad it kind of at the right time. It's and it's modest modest way. Is that Is that what modest fashion is that the word for it? What's the Obviously people are going to think what the hell would Mufti know about modest fashion?

They're probably right. I ain't got a clue people. No, it's a newly trending term modest fashion cuz we don't want to call it Islamic fashion because it really is. It's It's Okay. And And it's not specific for Muslims, is it? It's It's not. No, no. No. It's It's for any woman of any faith or no faith that wants to dress in that particular way.

Um I have I have women on my uh website that wear hijab. I have women on my website that don't wear hijab. And so it was just a It was just a brand that encompassed all women and not to exclude anybody. All right. I suppose that brings us to the ultimate question uh Bushraji that when you were on The Apprentice and as people may have that recognize you from there, they're probably thinking, "Wait a minute. There was a hijab on her." So, and I suppose, you know, you've got a brand that doesn't to be fair, your brand isn't just a hijab brand.

It may incorporate that, but it's not, you know, focal, just focalized on the hijab or fixated on it. Yeah. But, what's this journey of the hijab, the head covering? I mean, because that's you know, I know it's a very It must be a very personal journey, and I'm sure it's very It's an issue that lies at the heart of many young women who are kind of, you know, they're grappling with this whole topic, really.

So, yeah, shed some light on that, if Well, I thought you could help me with that. Unveil the veil on that. Okay, seriously. I mean, look, the first thing I'm going to start with I can't emphasize enough how personal and difficult a hijab journey can be because everyone's journeys with wearing the hijab is so different and varied, and I speak to women like every other day about clothing or symbolism of religion and stuff like that.

But, for me personally, I believe now that I didn't wear it for the right reasons. Okay. And it only It's taken me a very long time to kind of accept that and understand that things need to be done because you want to do them versus you being told that you should do it versus somebody else has read it, or perhaps you don't have a a better understanding of why a particular rule may be in place for you.

So, I wanted to go back, or I guess I'm doing that now. Wanted to go back and really understand what Islam says about the hijab because now I'm reading a lot of different things about it. I I look at history, historical books. I am working with a professor at a university about Islamic clothing and dress in particular.

Wait, have you Have you watched my video on it? That's the No, I I know I haven't had the chance Yes, salam. Look at this. Look at this. I'll be at She's going around asking for Islamic opinions. And she's talking to a mufti. Now, I'm going to get to that now. where's the Where's the disconnect button? Let me No, so yeah, I mean, just for the public uh the the viewers are very familiar My viewers are very familiar with my position that the head covering, if that's what we

mean by hijab, isn't uh an essential part of the hijab per se. But it is a uh it's something that It's definitely been there for a long time uh and it's been part and parcel of Muslim culture. Uh and I've got a detailed video on that explaining the verse in Surah Noor. But it's not um if you look specifically to the Quran and Sunnah alone, you won't find anything that mentions clearly about covering the hair.

And if you look at the practice of Well, we know that the the the Arabs in general did things like wore turbans, and the women and the men covered their faces sometimes because of the sand and stuff like this. But So, it was a part of the cultural thing, but was it a religious injunction? Um There seems to be a lot of vagueness for maybe the first at least 1 to 2 centuries. There seem It definitely appears there. It's there.

But how uh there seems to be some flexibility, some scholar you know Imam Malik's fatawa regarding the woman can uncover it with certain servants who are not mahram. She can uncover it with certain relatives who are not mahram. You so you see some kind of agility in that issue and then later on it stabilizes as a um as the norm and it starts to standardize. So that's my um kind of you know take on it and it's true that I didn't always think that either.

I you know a good few years this this view uh is probably a few years old. Like I've kind of started to look at things like this and re-evaluate although I've been slightly inclined I've been inclined to this for maybe a good number of years but to fully kind of have a concretized understanding that it's not it's quite relatively recent.

I mean you you mentioned that you know when you said um I was I felt I may not have been doing it for the right reasons though. What what kind of just to just to clarify or unpack that a bit like do you mean by that social pressures? Do you mean what what what are the wrong reasons then?

Um okay so the wrong reasons are doing it for spouse. Spouse to to find a spouse. That's the wrong reason. THE WRONG REASON FOR DOING IT FOR anybody else but yourself. The wrong reasons for doing it for if you feel pressured because your friends are have perhaps adopted it and now they are forcing their opinion on you.

Like a kind of peer pressure kind of thing. It's always the peer pressure and it's also the I don't know it's almost like if you are told by enough people something becomes true. Mhm. And if if the majority of people around you are saying the same thing and you're the odd person out, then perhaps suppress that opinion and go with the majority cuz it's just easier to live life that way.

But do you think it's I would have thought it's not easier to wear hijab because I would have thought most Muslim girls don't wear hijab. Like I mean, there's a small minority that wear hijab. Even though of late, I feel that hijab has become much more of a fashion thing. Yeah. Of late, I would say in the definitely in the last decade. Uh and it's you know, it's been massively fetishized as well and the whole thing it's But this is a very recent phenomenon.

I I think very very recent like so but uh I still think the majority of Muslim girls don't wear hijab. So, wouldn't you be in a majority by not wearing it? Yeah, so um I mean, if you've got to remember 15 or so years ago plus, nobody was really wearing the hijab at that time. So, actually yes, you're correct. It it was more difficult to do.

It it was it was more difficult to do and at the time it was very difficult for me to do. But if you feel like you don't have a choice and you may lose something because of it and then but then at the same time this very thing could actually bring you closer to Allah than where you are, then you would win both ways.

Even if it was at the expense of your own opinion or belief. You see, and you just because people I'm assuming they wouldn't know this. Um you were very involved in religious circles. You were very involved in uh Islamic learning, Islamic circles, Islamic uh teachings to you know, within those kind of girl circles for several years, isn't it?

Is this uh Could you Would you mind shedding a bit of light on that? Just because I don't think many people And look, I want to say that um just as a I think many people who may see this uh maybe just immediately judgmental. Yeah. And and I think to some extent as human beings by default we are judgmental. Um we are kind of bigoted by default and we need to counter these prejudices and by trying to enlighten ourselves and broaden our horizons.

But people may see this and think, "Well, oh, you know, she's never had no affiliation, you know, deep affiliation with Islam, just a nominal Muslim, you know, somebody born a Muslim." But that's not the case, is it? No, it's not the case. Actually, very the opposite. So, um I grew up in a very traditional uh Pakistani family. We were very British and very modern. Nobody in my family used to wear the hijab.

We used to just do fasting. We did Eid. We did Eid salah. But there wasn't this like teaching you know We did Christmas. See, there's something interesting there. You know, on a side note, I was just uh last week Was it last week or something? I was discussing with uh somebody on Mind Trap. I think it was Mind Trap, anyway. But I was mentioning that you see, when we were kids, we used to like do things like put up a Christmas tree because everybody did.

And but we never saw it as a clash of faith. No. No. Okay, that's that's interesting. Because today Same Today But like today Yeah. you it would be I I think I posted a picture of my Christmas tree Mhm. with my hijab on because I was doing it because I wanted my children to understand that their friends did Christmas. And it was really important for my children to also understand that there are different people.

And part of being a Muslim is respecting other people and the way that they live and this rather than keeping them in a bubble to kind of open them up to the world because either I'm going to teach them or they're going to learn it elsewhere perhaps in the wrong way and the criticism that I got for that post was a yeah, interesting. I mean I know a lot of people got get hate. I mean I get hate anyway for the stuff I do but I still put up I put up a Christmas tree last year and I was kind of like on the you see to me it's a thing like I'm not insecure about my faith.

Like I might you know what's that got to do with Islam? It's like saying you know or you've got a red colored drink here. Like what's that got to do with my faith? Like I don't it doesn't and to me it's like well you know my children I think like they will remember this in time to come you know these little things and it's like how I remember it. And and my parents were just you know that traditional kind of Pakistani who weren't religious but they never saw this as a crisis of faith or a clash of faith or they just saw that look it's a Christmas tree you know it's not like Yeah, but but okay so that was just it was an interesting point I wanted to just double check with you.

That if I if I could add to that that might come from not like I just I just recall all these different things being told by to me by different malvis different different muftis etc. In the in in the last 10 15 years. Things like don't do stuff that mimics the non-believer. You know there was a point where I was told I shouldn't wear jeans because denim was a modern dress so I shouldn't be wearing jeans because I'm trying to mimic or the non-believer and the thing is when you're young and you're like 16 or

17 years old and you look up to these bodies these people that run your masjids or your communities you know of course you are going to take their word as trustworthy, honest, that opinion is going to be the right one. So, I you know, I grew up for years just just thinking, "Oh, I can't wear that. I can't do that. I can't do that because I can't look like a non-believer. I've got to look like a believer." But it's interesting that that don't you think, Bushra, that this you see as the Muslim numbers grew and as because you know, obviously I'm I'm presuming much older than you, but I'm just saying

still when that generation was younger and there wasn't so I don't I I'd I'd like to maybe find out how much Me me, I'm 41. Right, so the thing is that but when there weren't so many older British-born, uh, let's say Muslims around. Like when we were kids, they weren't like 30, 40-year-olds that were British-born.

So, we didn't have that kind of, uh, you know, they they were just people growing up now. You would assume that we would be more insecure then. That would be the assumption as opposed to when there is when Muslims are now practically just part of the fabric of this society. Like there's Muslims in every single field of this society now. You know, even Parliament to wherever you want to see it, there's Muslims.

And now you'd assume would be much more secure in our identity and and kind of confident. Yet, it's ironic that now people freak out about no, you must be distinct to the non-believer. Yeah. And and we never had any of that growing up. You know, we like because when I grew up it was, uh, in an area in Birmingham that was, uh, dominantly Sikh. It was dominantly Indian.

Uh, it was mixed, but it was that was the dominating. It was Handsworth. And you know, we didn't see any issue like, "Oh, like let's say our neighbors." If they said, "Oh, happy Diwali." or something like this. Oh, it's the you know, the happy Diwali. Okay. And And my parents would say that to them. They would say to us, you know, on Eid. And we never saw this as a Oh my god, I've become a kafir. You know, it's not like a But I I it's surprising because I see people today so they almost like OCD obsessed about the the iman like they're going to lose it in any moment.

You know, like if I do this, I've lost my iman already. And yeah. Do you think it also could be to a degree some kind of status now? Like being overtly religious, openly, physically religious is almost like being the rich neighbor. So, however So, your piety now has become a status symbol. So, you are trying to outdo your next-door neighbor in your piety.

Um I guess Like a like a position of power. It's it's a power dynamic. Yeah, cuz I even go back to maybe a hadith where the Prophet Muhammad talks about there being lots of visibly Muslim people. Yeah. But actually, they're not Muslim. They are very far from Islam. So, that frightens me. I sometimes think, is that the direction that we're going in? So, we're seeing lots of Muslim people, how they might or how they should look or how they think look.

But then in their hearts, they're not really Muslim. So, it's that kind of hypocrisy creeping in. So, you know, maybe there's like a And And what's interesting is you will see that you know, like that generation, let's say that were growing up. One could argue, okay, they didn't have as many opportunities anyway. And that's true as well. But you see, they they wasn't like hijab wasn't common. But maybe some women wore it at the time time to time.

Like especially more elderly women or people that come from abroad wore it at the time. Maybe young girls sometimes wore it, sometimes didn't. But there was a sense of It's interesting that it's there there wasn't a burqa per se all the time on the head, the kind of But there was a sense of value. Like people did have a in like this kind of like deeply embedded values and stuff like they weren't like you know, there wasn't this thing that like cuz today there is obviously so much is Islamized.

Like everything has become you know, it's like you said, I don't want to call my brand Islamic clothing, but but people are doing this, you know, Islamic There's an Islamic mug. I actually did see once it said like something about an Islamic mug. I was trying to figure out how the hell do you get a mug to be Islamic? And I I I heard once people say, "Oh, we go for an Islamic jog." And I was like, "What the hell is the Is it a jog around?

Are you doing tawaf in Saudi Arabia?" It's like Wait, see an Islamic jog because they rerouted don't, you know, walk by non-mahram So what they're trying to say is yeah, we're going to go to places where there isn't much exposure or something and but you know, but this isn't like to call everything Islamic Islamic is ironically un-Islamic. You know, it isn't So it's a strange It is Yeah, because I do see this a lot with people and and I see that sometimes the you know, this this whole pushing of a veneer this has a very I feel sometimes

a cataclysmic burnout effect and a kind of like a snap effect. I mean, you you probably because presumably I mean, because you're into mentoring and you have a lot of presumably a lot of young women reaching out to you, connecting. You probably come across things like that, the burnout effect and people snapping and I I Yeah, totally. I just think that anyone that's doing anything, whether that's going into a faith, whether you're trying to practice um something in business, you can't jump into it.

There's got to be a really nice and easy slow steady progress to it. And I think with a lot of young women that I that I've been talking to, they feel like they're kind of jumping in the deep end when it comes to religion. Then they don't know where they quite fit. Then they get really confused. And actually it can cause quite a mental strain. And it like very emotional strain. And what they end up doing is they end up just slowly like going all the way back again.

So they go 100 steps forward too quickly and end up going all the way back and they just lose sight of what the plan was, I guess, to begin with. And I think that's what happens with a lot of women. I think also, like with me, um I think I had lots of questions as well at the time about my hijab. I was wondering why I was still doing it. I was questioning stuff that I'd read about it. I was looking into kind of historical hijab.

And I was For me, that's where the kind of questioning started. And then, because when you go to different countries, like you go back to Pakistan, you go to Iran, you go to India, when you go to market places, I generally cover up anyway. It it it's it's like an automatic thing. Like if you're in an if you're in an area where there's like way too many people and you yourself feel uncomfortable, you generally adopt a different dress sense.

Sure. So I don't That makes any sense. Yeah, sure. Sure. I mean, it would make perfect sense because if you were to be in some parts of the world, everybody would just be like in some parts of the world. And we've got to be coherent of that. We've got to look at our surroundings and adjust ourselves accordingly. For example, if I go to Mecca and 99% of the women there wear wearing black abaya and a black black hijab and I went in in with a white one, automatically you kind of feel a bit uncomfortable anyway because you look so different.

And I think that's where also the hijab to me applies sometimes as well. It's about using your mind and your logic and how you feel. I think automatic women Do you do you feel sometimes there's this thing that if girls like I I don't know about how cross-cultural this is, but I've definitely seen in some Pakistani within the Pakistani community, some Pakistani families that if a girl will kind of like, let's say, wear or done the hijab uh she will then be allowed to go out and do like to chill like the family would kind of give her more uh you know, they say, "Oh right, oh she's she's going out with her friends.

It's okay." Uh and and this becomes sometimes a tool to uh to kind of like access certain things that otherwise people might be, "What the hell are you doing? Where are you going?" They think a chacha. Sharif bachi here. It's like Yes. She's the good one. She's the one that's not Uh so I'm I'm so sorry.

No, this Yeah, sorry. I just thought I uh it's just a plane flew over and I thought I uh it's just my private jet landing. Not. Not. I was just saying that going back to school, I remember in like year nine and year 10 because I came from a quite modest um modern family, my parents never really had any restrictions in terms of like wearing skirts to school or anything like that.

So, you know, They did or they didn't? They didn't. So, you know, my dad was quite happy for me to wear a skirt if I wanted to. Of course, I know where the line is, you know, I'm also Pakistani, so it wasn't that I would just go out however, but we could wear skirts, but then I had friends who would um come to school in a hijab and then take the hijab off. So, they would leave the house with it on, take it off at school, but those same very those same girls would be the ones who would kind of talk about me because I came to school with a skirt on.

Mhm. So, it was like a quite a contradiction. I mean, I I I actually know these girls now today and we we do keep in touch, which is interesting. So, you know, that you said about this as well, that when you took the hijab when you took the hijab off, um naturally, you you you know, you're going to get hate. Like, unfortunately, I mean, you know, like I said, human beings are judgmental and then Muslims are God's chosen people for being judgmental.

So, but you said that uh a lot of these people, I mean, one, you got hate in general, one, I'm just curious how deep that hate went, and two, a lot of it was coming from women. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. So, yeah, um I'd probably say about 90% of it was from women, and majority of the time it was from Muslim women. A lot of my support, I guess, as I expected, was from non-Muslim women, men.

Um and it it's just strange because I'm like, I always wonder, surely these women would have gone through similar um questions, um thinking about it themselves. They would have a little bit more sympathy for me being a woman of their community, and I just wonder where that goes. I just wonder why because I know that I wouldn't ever do that. I just wouldn't do that. That's not something Do you feel sometimes it's a um a sense of s- you see, some people are I don't some people are missing out, let's say, if I can use that word.

Yeah. Um Yeah. I'm not using it. I'm just trying to use it in a way that everybody could understand. So, religious people sometimes have this kind of story they tell themselves that look, "Okay, I'm not doing this, but God is rewarding me for not doing that." So, okay, "I'm not going to the clubs, but God is going to reward me. Okay, I'm not watching TV, but God is, you know, okay, I'm not the uh let's say having an I don't know let's say I'm doing my hair and I'm doing makeup for as a whim as a woman.

If guys are thinking I'm Muslim, that's that's all that's only on Sundays, people. It's only So, the So, now this people have this thing that well, it's okay, God's going to reward me because I'm doing something Islamic. Um or I you know, I I'm not shaving, let's say as a guy, because because of this, but then this is a problem, you see, like then they'll see somebody like let's say me, who does let's say I I don't have a problem with people shaving, men, or whatever, doing this kind of stuff, or and then I will justify it through religion as well.

Now, that is a huge problem because that was the story that was supposed to give them solace. But I've kind of drowned the story in saying, "Well, actually, you know what? The Quran Sunnah doesn't actually say it like that." So, they So, they they're seeing it as, "Oh, you're trying to enjoy as well and justify." And uh So, I Do you feel in similar ways, although you're not coming at it from a theological perspective trying to say, "Look, this is the Quran Sunnah," but you some of these women might be feeling like, "Damn, like I'm why You know, like maybe deep down they want to do that as well, but they Yeah.

Mhm. I I yeah, totally agree. I believe that what happens is some of what I'm doing is probably what they also want to do. But like you said, because they have believed the story and they want to go with that story, they're now looking at me going hold on a second, if I have to do it, then surely you should be doing it, too.

And so that insecurity that they've got inside, I am living they can't make sense of it. So they almost are saying, well, if I have to drive this car, then you should driving it, I suffer, we suffer, the whole Totally. And I think also part of it is Mufti, what we said earlier is you know, during you know, during the time when I was wearing hijab I spent a lot of years like going to going back to college and I and I I learned a lot more than I I knew about Islam.

So I did stuff in in sort of the Hadith sort of transliterations, I did thick, I did Tajweed. I kind of educated myself. I was learning Arabic. Um you know, so I did all of that. you were you were heading a circle or something. Yes, so I used to have a a group of of of young girls who would join me and we would talk about particular Hadith and we would go into detail and we would try to understand it better. We would have a book club and we used to do this every single week.

Every day each week one day we would pick out and I used to head those circles. I used to run a Islamic at the time it was a Islamic clothing shop right by the masjid. So I knew the Imams really well. So I was very very heavily infiltrated within my community in South London and a lot of women will know you know, who I am. So yeah, so I don't come from a background where I don't know stuff.

It was when I started delving deeper into learning that I got a little bit uncomfortable with the hijab because I then started to understand it for myself. Mhm. And I felt like I didn't have to wear it. Like the way I was. And it's interesting because I think in some ways that you see once you do something ostensible and that's apparent within especially Muslim communities uh there's almost like that um it it you know like the panoptic effect where the Muslim community is now watching you you can't stop doing it now.

Like if if a guy grew a beard uh now for him to shave you see even though maybe growing a beard most Muslim men I mean now it's a fashion to to have beards but okay when it wasn't then most Muslim men didn't have beards but if you did grow one like most Muslim men women don't wear hijab but if you do do it then to stop doing it all of a sudden becomes like I'm assuming very difficult because people are now you know it's like that prison of uh Jeremy Bentham where where people are all watching the prisoners are watching each other.

So Yeah. because now it's going to become such a what the hell has happened to you? Yeah. You know you're you're totally correct. I mean I can even say and I will and I will accept this and I will own this. But there was a point where I was incredibly judgmental of everybody else. Anyone that wasn't doing what I was doing for example let me just call it practicing the religion in that particular way I was incredibly judgmental of them.

I used to question why you going to eat there they they serve alcohol. Why are you going to shop there? I became I am Mullah Omar. Taliban right here. I joking I was but the but the worst part was it was I was so help like heavily boxed in my mindset and I created this full bubble in my world that I I began to then realize that actually Bushra you've become the judgmental one and why have you done that?

Because that's not your religion. and you were quite involved in what like the Salafi kind of circles and which are already a very harsh kind of interpretation. Yeah. Really really really strict and I was watching although to myself at the time it it just didn't seem that way. I was just being Bushra but unbeknown to me I had become incredibly judgmental and saying that if I didn't have the education that I had for the years after that to come I would probably be one of those women that was writing a comment to another woman who'd removed her hijab publicly.

You understand I kind of see it from both sides. So I know why these women write the comment. I mean so what's like the kind of harsh comments that you faced out of curiosity? What are these What are these women lashing out with you? I'm curious as somebody who receives hate mail let's see what some of the hate mail is like. Right.

Um look I I guess the I guess the worst of it all is when people just tell me that I'm going to go to hell. Okay. So that that would be the worst one. bother me. I it would I would be like I mean well you know they're not God anyway so it doesn't really bother me when people say stuff like that. Yeah yeah there's all sorts there's like you know you're you know you're going to go to hell you're chasing the fame she's chasing the dunya she's forgotten about Allah Allah.

Yeah it's just you know what you know it's it's just oh you know what what sort of things are you teaching your children? You you should be embarrassed to be a part of our ummah, like I'm like, okay. That's obviously what you think. Mhm. But you've been somebody, I mean, you've had had a You've mentioned the learning and heading the Islamic circles and being involved practically even within the Salafi Dawah, but with that obviously then in the backdrop, but you've had a um you know, a deep connection and and it's very important for you things like spirituality.

Yeah, yeah. So, for you know, speaking being a a judgmental bigoted Muslim as as many people will be, like they'll be like, "Look, come on. Like, look at her. There she is. She's got her hair out like this. She's doing this. You know, she's not wearing a hijab. She's What does this woman know about spirituality? And why would she care?" Uh this is going to be the a view of some people, unfortunately.

Um So, I mean Tell us about that because spirituality is not like something, you know, it's not like a thermometer that people can measure in the sense, you know, like, "Oh, I look at this person, you know, It's about the internal connection and pursuit, isn't it?" So Yeah. I believe there's like a fundamental thing that I live by. And I believe that when you are a judgmental person or you have ego or you're not self-working and self-awareness, you can't connect to the rule.

You can't connect to your soul. There's a part of us that exists that creates who we are. We know that this outer shell is just a vessel. So there is something incredibly deep inside us waiting for us to connect to it, which is the only way that we are going to connect in our prayer to Allah. Like there's so much worldly stuff that has to that has to leave.

You know, like when people talk about dunya and all this materialism and all of this stuff, but what about the people that are prejudiced and judgmental about the way you look? We We We need to forget that all of this exists. That You know, there is something deeper and that part of deepness is when you lose that ego, being judgmental. You know what? Cuz when you stand in front and you raise your hands up and you're in prostration and you're asking Allah for something, you're not standing there as this body.

You're standing there as his creation, which is the rule that was blown into. So, what in essence is that? That's your mind. That's how you think. That's It's just a totally different thing. And that's the bit that I that kind of gets me. I'm You know, for me, Mufti, I'm just an incredibly deeper person. I've got layers upon layers upon layers to it. And for me, that's one of the things in my life that I really, really, really want to hone in on and understand that a bit more because I know Islamically as well, connecting to Allah, there is a different way to do it.

And I just feel like we're losing what that way is because we're just too bogged down with anything that's physical or we can see. Yeah. I mean, and I would tie this, you know, this kind of tapping into this um this side of the rule that you're saying, coming to maybe be know it better, uh with a with what we discussed earlier of a a kind of security or a confidence in the faith.

Uh I I I I feel there's definitely if if not a causation, there's a correlation between them. That the more a person uh becomes like gets into those layers, the more confident as well they become about their faith, the more sure. I I I'm am not saying, um, you know, certainty kind of like, but they become more secure about themselves.

Uh, not having to prove to others. So, yeah. Yeah, hopefully because I always say one thing I say to people, nobody knows how much you pray your salah. Nobody can see that. That's not visible. That's something that is private to you. Nobody knows if you performed Hajj. Nobody knows if you say your, you know, if you can recite your shahada. Nobody knows if you're really fasting or what intention you're going to keep your fast with. All of the pillars, if we think about the pillars, they're not visible.

They are personal. They are private. And there's a reason why, I guess that's there because your connection with God is is a personal one and it's like a spiritual one. And And for me, I feel like a release. I feel like I have nothing to prove anymore because either way, your people are going to make a judgment. Even women in hijab get judged, Mufti. Of course. Women Women in hijab get judged. They get judged because they're wearing it incorrectly.

They get judged because they're wearing the wrong color. They get judged because their hands are not covered. So, it's like, when do we stop them? And I feel like I've kind of exited myself from that. And now I can focus on the bit that I need to focus on, which is between me and my Lord. Mhm. Well, that that uh, it makes so much sense. And I I always feel that, look, isn't the fundamental message of Islam one being about connecting the person or with the creator, which is what you've mentioned, and the other about that person, that human becoming a good human being, a decent human being.

Isn't that the ultimate fundamental message of Islam? To me, Islam, yes, the rituals and these things are, you know, they have their unquestionable place in Islam and they help people and they are like a lifeline for people. But really the message of Islam is about being a decent human being. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Totally. I mean, that's the human part of it.

Like, I think people like to group everyone into their own section. They like to categorize stuff. The way I see it number one, you've got to be nice to each other. And that's why it's be nice to your neighbor. Because doesn't matter if your neighbor is a non-Muslim, you're not not going to be nice to them, are you? You're going to be nice to your neighbor because any any goodness, Mufti, starts from home.

So, it starts from where you live and it spreads that way. Yeah. Totally. And and and and the opposite holds true. Don't you think so? You know, there's there's a saying in our job be lucky there can under select the you know, this thing of like that whenever there's a fire it begins within the property. It's like it's just the property of Mufti, but that if people are not inculcating this kind of decent human or humanity within their own homes, then Yeah.

they may be, whether they realize it or not, still inculcating the opposite. Like you may just be producing you know, a bigoted environment where everybody's judgmental and they feel it's okay to judge. It's okay to, you know, condemn other people. You're going to hell. You're going to hell. You're going to hell. Yeah. Easy. Easy. It's easy for people to go around pointing the finger.

The hardest thing to do is point the finger at yourself first. You know, so pointing out fault is when you look at yourself and you say, "Right, let me hold up a mirror in front of me and let me fix what needs to be fixed for myself first." And the majority of people can't do that. It's that's too scary. It's too frightening for them. And just following from that point of where you said that look women even in women in hijab get judged.

You had something called a niqab experiment. Uh Yes. So what what what on earth is the niqab experiment? What is this about? This is What tell tell us a bit about that. That was like a combination of like a few things. So there was a family and and the younger sister had an older sister that wore the hijab but she was in two minds about wearing the hijab and what the niqab actually felt like going out in the UK.

So they lived in a city called Luton. That's where it was it was filmed Luton. Um and it was really interesting because I had just transitioned from wearing hijab to not wearing it and she was kind of doing the opposite. So she was wasn't wearing it and wanted to wear it. But because of Islamophobia as we know it's it it does exist and there was a portion I guess a year or so ago that lots of of us face face Islamophobia here in the UK.

Um and she wanted to go into Luton wear the hijab and the niqab and wanted to see a genuine response from the public what they thought. So we put a camera on her and if she went undercover. So basically it was a hidden camera. Um and what was like amazing about it is actually people were like pretty accepting.

Okay. People were kind of Yeah, people were pretty I mean let's say I think there was about 30 people we interviewed and asked them how they felt. I'd say three of them maybe had something bad to say and the rest were like pretty okay with it. They were like yeah. she was ethnically Muslim and was she Asian or something or was she What She was Muslim. Muslim. Okay, okay.

Like she just had apprehensions about the niqab. She had apprehensions about the hijab, and she just wanted to know whether it would have some kind of detrimental effect Mhm. on Like, will people kind of like stare at her or be like You know what? Yeah, and how that how that would make her feel. And then she wanted to know, well, if people were going to be nasty to her, would she be ready to face that at her age.

Was Was a factor in that as well that you said Luton, which has a strong community of Muslims there. Obviously, it has or had, I think, Tommy Robinson as well, the the counterpart. But, uh Did that play a role because they're so familiar with to Muslims as opposed to like like being in London's very cosmopolitan, very, you know, you've got everyone.

Uh whereas if it's maybe a different town that's not as diverse, it Yeah. Was this take factored in or Yeah, so what they did is they basically that particular experiment was for her. Okay. But, if you had taken that format and done it in a predominantly white area, then the results may have not been the same, you know, which is a fact. I I which is something I said to them. I said, "Look, if we did this the very same thing in a different area, the outcome would be very very different, and you'd probably have people shouting across the street, calling her names." Cuz what she did is instead of just walking around, she actually went and asked for stuff.

So, she would ask for directions. She would ask where this shop was, and then some people were very hesitant to even speak to her. Mhm. Some people were very comfortable, and they would speak to her. Some people wouldn't even acknowledge her. So, you know, it was it was like a very very good experiment to run. But, one thing I would add, actually, I will speak up about this. it. Go for it. I was um I was a victim of two Islamophobic hate crimes.

Okay. Um So, but one of them I did talk about at an event cuz I do public speaking. Um and one of them was with both of my with two of my children in the car. And it was incredibly frightening. Incredibly. I'm not going to downplay this at all. And I was in tears. I had a helicopter watching my car from the top because I had two young men in a car trying to railroad me off the road on a a road.

I had an a very kind Muslim The these two men these are the Islamophobic or is this a different it's to do with the same Okay, so they're hating on you for being a Muslim. They're coming Are they what? They start swearing? They drive up to you parallel and start swearing? Is this Yeah, so what they did is they started uh say they they put down their window when we stopped at lights at first and they started to swear at me and I had my my young son on the left side.

I told him to put his window up and my daughter was at the back and I told her to put her window up. And I I didn't understand why that was happening. I don't know whether it was because I mean I don't want to really talk about this but I I do have a nice car. And at the time I was fully hijabed so I had my hijab on. I was wearing a black abaya so you could so you would know that I was a Muslim. Um and yes, it was it was actually really bad because on the next stop he got out of his car and he started banging onto my window and swearing at me and he was spitting on my windscreen.

I had people come out their cars to stop him from doing it. He would not stop. So I called the police while I was in my car trying to get away from these men and I had a helicopter on the top. I had the policeman on my phone. They're saying we're getting someone to you now but it was very scary. I was traumatized for months afterwards. For months afterwards. Oh, that's shocking to hear. I mean Ah, damn.

Yes, salaam. I mean it true that we don't sometimes um understand or even truly comprehend the the struggles that some people go through, especially uh people who may appear that they I'm not saying they are vulnerable, but they may appear as a more soft target. Like that man may not do that to other men, you know, he may think, "Well, if I do that to a man, you know, I'm going to get a a smack in the head or something." But, if I you know, here's a woman, I can just stop her, she's on her own.

It is But, I'm I'm really glad to hear that the police were very responsive though, that you said they even sent a helicopter. That's very responsive. Very responsive. And the worst part about it is they could not take them to court. They said to me that he knew the rules really, really well. He didn't directly spit into your car because you'd put your windows up. Therefore, you couldn't hear him speaking cuz you'd put your windows up.

So, although there were witnesses, the time, they couldn't actually them. They followed them all the way cuz I had the number plate. But, the part I wanted to actually hone in on, Mufti, was when I put this out there on social media to tell them about what happened, I had women and men from my community tell me, "Sister, hold strong. They want you to take your hijab off.

They want you to not be Muslim. They want you" And you know how I felt at the time? I felt like I don't want to do that. If I feel unsafe, and my daughter watching that is feeling unsafe, and she does not want to wear She doesn't want to look like that because she's worried that something like it's utterly unacceptable.

But, why should I be the one to be like strong? If I don't feel like I can be strong, then it's not bad. So, I was basically getting made to feel like don't don't do anything because that's what they want from you. And and and here and and it is I feel that there's two things here that one is this where you are being told by people from a safe distance who are at a safe distance to to kind of be that the alleged you know what takes the brunt of something like in this case you

keep that hijab going with a niqab. Yes. The enemies of Islam or these people want you to remove it. You are the make or break like almost being presented like that. Whereas you know, many of these people may be speaking from very safe distance like if they're men speaking then you know, men don't wear niqab and they don't truly experience what a woman wearing a niqab or a hijab truly would experience like we can't experience it.

Uh now and if they are women or I mean maybe maybe some of them have experience I don't know but I'm I'm assuming by and large most people are speaking from a safe distance. So, you've got that angle and the other side I want to mention as well that you know, this whole this clear black and white dichotomy like oh, you know, you the enemies of Islam and and Islam and like we first of all, the person that was that was doing that is utterly I mean he's just an absolute coward.

There's there's no you know, two ways about that. Um utterly appalling his behavior and and you know, to approach someone he's thinking he's got a soft target a woman then he's seeing a woman with children, you know, even more of a softer target and something that he's ought you know, he at least ought to trigger some sensibilities in him but yet uh he's doing that. But you know, for the most part in in this country, in the UK, people are not like that as well.

You know, it's not like you know, people are very civil, very respectful, very accommodating, welcoming, reasonably friendly. You know, if if you go out, you speak, people are friendly. And and so it kind of ties in with one, it's not first of all the threat isn't even like you've got an absolute like you've got a bigger, somebody who's a most likely a racist and Islamophobe or whatever, and he's then being made into this caricatured into the enemy of Islam, but then you are being told, "Oh, don't you change because you are almost this force of good versus the force of evil."

Yeah. Yeah, it's the good and evil. And it's not until that you go through situations like that that they that it's very different when you're in them and it's and it's happening. You know, I was very I you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm actually quite thick-skinned. I'm quite strong woman. And when that incident happened to me, it replayed several times for ages afterwards. And I actually realized how frightening it must be for some other women that I've experienced attacks like that.

And then that's when I started diving more into kind of production and TV because I really wanted people to get a real sense of how the victims feel because there are women out there that have had Islamophobic attacks, but they they they don't talk about it. And I know how I felt, so I was like surely they must be feeling the same thing because the pressure of being the superhero sits on them.

And even if they feel like maybe I shouldn't wear my niqab, they're not saying that cuz they're too frightened to say that cuz they don't want to let their community down. And then there's a lot of like like we said, there's a lot of you know, they might want to take the hijab off and but, you know, maybe the husband, maybe the the brothers, maybe the fathers, maybe their own sisters, maybe the the, you know, their female friends, uh people would be like, you know, what the hell's she up to?

You know, because another thing is, I suppose with the hijab, it's very suspecting, like people would immediately associate, um you know, oh my god, what is she up to? Automatically, automatically, if you're covered and you're in a hijab, then you're automatically "Larki kharab ho gayi hai." This is Yeah, "Larki kharab ho gayi." Which is not me at all. You know what I mean?

This is something going on you know, for this to happen. It's this automatic assumption that that that people make of you. Yeah, I mean, it's true. It's It's like this meme I read the other day said, if your uh wife or girlfriend, it said, that's what the meme said, it said just suddenly out of nowhere, for no reason, just starts going to the gym, then you're about to be single pretty soon.

But, you know what? All the youngsters are going to the gym now. Like, all the youngsters. You know what? It is honestly just the trend. It's a trend. I just I don't even remember knowing about the gym, you know, when I was younger. It's definitely a thing, which has got to be a good thing. No, absolutely, absolutely. And speaking about, you know, other young people, you I know you you're not so keen on the word empowerment, but you are into empowering young people, especially maybe women, but doesn't have to be, into entrepreneurial thought.

Um I've always been an advocate of this, that look, people I feel need to think in enterprising ways. They need to, you know, the opportunities are as vast as your imagination out there. But, for somebody on the ground doing that as a you as a profession. Tell us a bit about that. Well, you know what the um hustle is real.

All right, people keep hustling. The hustle is real. Yeah, hustle. It is there and I'm telling you if it's making you money, then carry on doing it if it's making you money. And um I think with entrepreneurialship comes a sense Unless it's drug dealing. Huh? Yeah. Unless you want to call it paracetamol drug dealing. Well, well, there you go. Go on.

You know, cocodamol and all that. Uh cocodamol, isn't that addictive? Well, I don't take any medicine by the way, but you know, unless it's like, you know, whatever, but yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not an advocate for taking medicine, but definitely when it comes to entrepreneurialship, I you know what? For me, I just have a passion for it and I believe that life can be incredibly stagnant if you stay in a 9-to-5.

I believe we're all creative, we've got all these amazing hobbies, we should always try to to make something of those hobbies and you know what? I like to see progress. So, I like it when somebody comes to me and says, "Pesh, this is my plan for like 2 years. Can you help me get to that plan?" And it may be like something really basic. It could be like a mother who hasn't worked for like 5 years and she says, "I do this amazing creativity with keyrings and in 2 years time I want to make £500 a month." Okay.

Right? But just to see that progress and see her develop and see the result take place for me is where it all is because I know that I've kind of helped her get there, helped her believe in herself, given her kind of strategies, giving her advice for the business, helping her grow her own little you know, like her little thing because I I believe that women should have stuff for themselves, especially ones that are in marriages, women that have partners, especially Asian women who always kind of have to stay at home and look after the kids and the men are kind of excelling in their careers.

I I I'm just someone that kind of champions those women and men, you know, because I do All right. All right. So, on You see, so somebody, let's say they finished college or whatever, you know, they're they're not they're not necessarily following a career per se. They're not, you know, like because you've got a huge, uh, you know, a spectrum of the market of of people who are want to be doctors, accountants, teachers, lawyers, whatever professions.

But people who've just finished college, they're young, uh, or they could be older, but, you know, they And right now, I suppose this there could be a potential crisis as well in the economy. But what would you say? What what how what kind of advice? If somebody says, "Hey, I want I you know, I want to make money." Um, what what would you say to them? Because I've often, uh, just as a slight thing before that, I've said to people on many occasions, "Look, maybe, like sometimes somebody will say to me that, "Look, oh, you know, I'm struggling with this right now.

I'm doing I've said that may Look, rizq is going to is is is going to come to you from God. But maybe God wants to increase it, but to increase it, it's like this kind of flow coming and you've got to kind of break the floodgates for it to kind of come through. So, you got you know, you got you got to take that sledgehammer out and go to work. And what's going to look like damage is actually going to bring in maybe for you more rizq.

So, but what would you say to people that are like they could be any age, but I was just saying young people as an example, but they're like, "Hey, I want to make money. I don't know what to do. What should I do? What should I What's a starter? What could be these kind of things? What kind of advice would you give? Well, you know what? The first thing that what I would start with is I tell people that there is obviously we have to remember Allah. So, we know that they people always talk about your risk is there, your risk is there, this is how much you're going to get, whatever's put down for you is not going to miss you.

You know all those kind of I don't want to say cliche hadiths, but people do say that. But, I believe that a lot of the time you create also your risk, like you So, what I try to say to them is that number one I say to them it's okay not to know what you want to do. That's that's the first thing. Because we live in a time where there are vast opportunities. So, I do not say to them that you should and must know what you want to do.

I start off with a brainstorm. So, I usually put their name in the middle and I say right. I go right, stuff down, write down stuff that you like. And because for me I know there is work to sustain your bills and your rent or whatever, but if you can work in a field that you love, it no longer becomes work. So, the idea is about turning into a passion project.

Yeah, but like what could because in real terms that you know you somebody says, well what do you like to do? I don't know. What what do you young people seem so out of touch now with the world. What do young people like to do? I don't know, play video games, watch Tik Tok, uh what do they what do they like to do? So Smart young smart young people Oh oh oh, there goes 70% of the Muslim community.

The why is he not speaking about the way he is? The thing is right Or or they probably think you are talking ABOUT THEM NOW. I don't know which one I don't know which one's worse. They go, oh think they're talking about me now. It's like I really want to do what you do and I'm like, well, it's going to take 20 years.

No, really. Honestly, I I sit down with them. I get them to fill out a questionnaire and I really want to know who they are because you know what the problem with apps like TikTok and Instagram and social media apps? They give such a warped perspective on career. They give a warped idea of how people can make money. For me, those apps are additions to what you are doing. They are not the be it all end all.

If you can make something from these apps, that should be an addition to a main income because to kind of cut a long story short, if you've got a thousand people on an app, only one of those people is actually going to make a living that's going to sustain semi lifestyle. So, you I start off by being incredibly real. Okay, but what what are some real on the ground examples? Because I've watched, you know, I I wasn't first so much of a fan of Gary V, but then I watched a few of his videos and I was like, you know what?

This guy he he's on it though. And I thought, you know what? He's actually if if people can see beyond like because, you know, if they're sensitive to swearing, he's always swearing so that might offend people, but you know, he's real. And he's teaching people how to hustle and and he so on and many of his things he had this um I forgot what the what the Americans call it now. It's like uh some kind of garage some particular garage sales kind of where they just basically it's like a car boot sale, but they're just selling it from the garage, a house sale, whatever, just selling things.

So, he would go around to loads of these kind of front yard sales and he would just like he's recording himself and he's hustling. And when I first watched it, I was I'm not going to lie, being judgemental, I was like I can't believe this guy cuz he just hustled this kid. Like he said to the kid, "Oh, how much are those DVDs for?" And the guy's like, "Oh, how much are these kind of soft toys for?" The guy and the and the guy's like, "You know, that's $25." He's like, "Oh, you know, uh I'll give you $12 for it." And I'm thinking to myself, "God damn, you you're a millionaire.

How can you hustle that kid out of $10? What the hell's wrong with you?" So, I'm watching it like this, but then later on I realized the wisdom behind what he's doing. What he was doing is he was recording that. He was going away, selling these things online with incredible markups. Like let's say he bought these, I don't know, like little baseball cards or stuff. And he's like picked up three for $20.

And then he's selling one each for like $100 each, 150. And then what he was doing is showing people, "This is how you hustle. Like this is a hustle. Why don't you just go out to the local front yard sale and just buy stuff and sell it online, sell it on eBay, sell it on wherever you're going to sell it. Like, you know, make money. Like what's wrong with you?" Like And I love that spirit of his that look, just do it, man.

You know, it's it's So, uh so this is what I was curious out of ideas. Um if you what are some Would you because I've advised a lot of people sometimes to just go on to eBay. I don't know if that's something you advise. Is that Do you know what? I I definitely think that there is still a window in eBay. I do think there is a window in eBay. But the thing is everything could sell if the price is right and you've got to buy at the right price as well.

I just feel like those things are usually side hustles. So, they are a hustle um component to a main income. Especially depending on the lifestyle that you want to live. Like I mean, I can give you an example in my household. So, I have a teenage son and he spends a lot of his time on the computer. Um and he plays games and all of that stuff. But, then he started asking me for like more screens, you know, cuz "Mom, can I get another screen?

Can I get another screen?" I was like, "What are you going to do with three Multiple screens are awesome, by the way. I've got like two setups here. Okay. So, then I was really confused and I sat down with him one evening and I said to him, "Look, what are you doing with your time? Because I don't mind you being on the computer, but if there is some something productive um happening from it." So, anyway, when he was This is a few years ago. When he was a when he was 12 years old, he was making 30 pounds a month from being on the computer.

So, he would make and create clothing for a game and people would subscribe to him on Tum- on Tumblr and they could upload these items of clothing for their character on that game. Okay. If that makes sense. So, that sort of became And the nice I thought to myself, "Actually, he's using his time wisely, so I'm not going to stop him from being on the computer because he's still going to school, etc." That has now turned into he does websites now and he's 15.

So, he can charge anything up to 500 pounds for a website and I'm And when I talk about a brilliant website, that's what he does. And at the moment, the most he's been paid is 300 pounds for 4 hours of work for a website. Pretty good. So good. So, 15-year-old kid, yeah, you can't really go 15 years old. He gets commissioned online. He puts his work out there. People approach him. He's got to be pretty do you know I think and what's more important, this is why I was saying even the eBay thing, when I say to some young people, it doesn't have to be eBay, it could be anything.

You see, what's more important, the money is good, it it gets them moving, it gets them motivated, but you see right it does all of that, but what's more important is it kind of triggers a business acumen. That people like they get like they become kind of on it. Yeah, exactly like the light switch gets switched on all of a sudden about business, about making money, about doing stuff.

And I feel that there's so much there is within um you know, like the the unfortunate I mean, there is a lot of talent within the Muslim community, but there's also a great amount of just people thinking sometimes oh what do I do? And then some people thinking well, I know we just want patience. They need people to back them, to believe in them. A lot of people that I meet have very they lack in self-belief.

Do you believe that I mentor more men than I do than than I than I actually thought I would? Okay, do you mentor more men? Okay, that's yeah. Do you know what I mean? Cuz I find that they find it easier to speak to me. Mhm. Well, they feel like they can't speak to men about insecurities that they may have in the workplace or what they are trying and they're striving to do, they feel embarrassed about talking to another man cuz they feel like they'll be judged for it.

It's true, they probably would. Yeah. They'll be like man up, god damn it. What's wrong with you? I said they would be like that the men to them would be like, huh? Man up, god damn it. It's like this is great therapy. Yeah, I know, but you know what? It's quite sad and but you know, I mean the like highlight for me is when I get an email and you know, this particular young man and he says to me, Bushra, you know, we've only been working together for 6 years, but I feel like I have a new found confidence with my speech.

So, just the way he speaks about himself is just so nice to hear. You know, he has that self-belief because and it's really important that as like Asians, as Muslims, we are building our youth up to feel good about themselves, you know? And I do feel, to be fair, we were just chatting about this earlier today, me and some of my friends, that uh there you know, young very young Muslim Muslim kids, actual kids.

Uh like I was actually speaking about my daughter and who's going to be nine this month. So I was just chatting and just saying that they are actually so much more confident and so much more kind of See, it's difficult to say because it's intel like it's not just about the intelligence of having information, but they seem to be kind of more world-aware and Yeah.

I mean, I we I wouldn't have been anything like that when I was a kid. I would have been some kind of don't know. But see, I think it's a ill-placed confidence. All right. Okay. Oh, you think it's a bit cocky sometimes? Yeah, I I think it's the correct kind of confidence that drives ambition. It's a cheekiness which makes them believe that they have the confidence, but when they get into it, they they lack in a lot of places.

So it's almost like a I'm kind of good at everything, you know, and I'm like, well, okay, prove it then. So when you actually So it's a confidence that is misplaced. It's more of a Tik Tok. I see. You know, on that note, I'll I'll I'd like to I suppose as a as a mother, I'd like to pick your brain then cuz we were just discussing this earlier today. I was saying that you know, it's interesting like my daughters will sometimes they'll know some things about like let's say certain apps or certain tech tech stuff that that I I won't know.

Like they'll know oh, this is called this and this is called this and this is how you switch this off. This is how you switch this this is how you switch this off and do this on the iPad." And um and the other day uh my younger one, who's six, was saying to me, and this is where I'm going to sound like an absolute [ __ ] uh she was telling me about um what do you call these uh these I think they're like large whales or sharks or make make ledons or something, but she was saying Yeah, megalo megalodons, right?

So, that's it. So, she said that, and I said, "What?" And she's like uh and and I said, "What? Megalodon?" And she's like laughing, "Haha, it's not called megalodon, it's called megalodon." Right? So, I was kind of just And so, the discussion was that you see, I suppose it's different for me. I'm obviously I'm a mufti, I'm involved in academic research and stuff like this.

But, you know, general parents I would feel and I I maybe more so from a father perspective. Uh I don't know, maybe it's across uh maybe it's both parents, but you see they would like that I'm assuming they would find themselves in a position while their children are still young. They're not like adults. Where they would know more than them on certain things, and this may make them feel stupid.

And it may be very difficult to kind of like like they wouldn't know how to cuz I suppose as a parent they'd want to always be the, you know, the one who knows and the one who like like my child always ask me. Like in the old days you'd always, you know, the the father would always know or the mother presumably would know. But now kids would know because they learn everything from the internet. And I'm assuming, especially just regular folk, who are not like academics and not like, you know, they may start to feel like stupid to themselves.

And this may trigger like a a struggle, like an inner struggle because they cuz it kind of it's tipping the relationship kind of balance and like the nature of it. I don't know if that's something you've ever um I don't know if you've thought about or because we were just discussing this today. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, I can I can easily add to that. I'm very very aware of that. And um some of the techniques that I do is number one, I'm always sort of self-educating myself all of the time.

So, there's not a moment that I don't spend researching or reading about something. If there's something I don't know, I try and learn about it. Um and inevitably, there are going to be things where your kids are going to know more than you because of the technology um internet growth, all of this is happening so quickly and our children are picking up on it faster than we are.

There is going to be this crossover. But, what I tend to have with my children is I have conversations, especially with my older two, is I make them understand that although you may know more than me when it comes to technology, there is a lot of stuff I still can take the tipple off and throw it Yeah, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I WOULD LIKE TO YOU KNOW WHAT? MY PARENTING style is pretty awesome, you know?

cool moms, you know what I mean? Like actually, my kids say to me, um um Mom, you know what? My friends always ask me about you. And I go, oh, do they? He goes, yeah, then I just pull out your Instagram and they're like, oh, can we come to your house? Okay, interesting. So, just So, just their conversations are really funny, you know what I mean? And actually, I did fashion design, arts, and everything at university.

I did a degree in it. Back in the day, the the the the programs and the software that I used has changed so much. So, my oldest is always teaching me. He'll say to me, Mom, come, I want to show you some of the new new tools." And it's cool because there are questions that he asks me that he intrigues him. Like, he'll you know he'll he'll ask me things about the Walkman. He'll say, "Mom, what was it like for you not to watch videos?" You say, "You know what it was back then when we used to live in the caves?

It was pretty good. The Walkman used to work back then." But you know that that point though of children, parents feeling maybe insecure of themselves. Uh which is like a kind of bizarre uh almost like an existential borderline like like it's a shock because you know you don't you could it would be deemed you know acceptable to feel insecure to another grown-up.

But to your own children the question about learning yourself, the problem is a lot of people are not necessarily inclined towards learning. No, you know. Uh so I I don't know because I just I don't know if I have answers for this. I just feel that damn like because Mhm. It's like because I I thought about that in recent times that this must be really uh because I could be made to cuz I could feel oh like I don't know this and they know it.

But uh You're on now. Say that again. Said you're on now. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. There she gets disconnected immediately. Look, at the end of the day But you know in our days when we had dinosaurs uh it wasn't that So I'm only what 67 million years old?

Not that at all. Yeah, but think about it, right? If I think about it with my parents, I remember when I used to always be like, "Mom, you don't know anything. Dad, you don't know anything. We know more than I think this is just something It's It's the cycle of It's the cycle of life. Okay, cool. I get it. I know that that makes stress. Don't stress. No, OH, I I OH, I'm not sure.

You mean I can cancel those counseling sessions and the I can lay off the antidepressants. I'll I'll Wait there. Just Oh. It's okay. I'll have to give up this addiction as well then. So Toba Toba You can do that. Toba and the so Of course, yeah. Toba Toba People, if you've got any questions that you'd like to to to ask Bushra while she's live, you can fire away.

And I'll let's we can read them out. I'll just see. It says uh cuz I'm looking at both of them. Uh it mentions you've got to make money to feed your family first. Oh, not everyone is an academic. Oh, yeah. I I I would agree with with that and it's the that's that's absolutely true.

Um Right. Oh, let's some people just having their own discussion. What the hell are you guys doing having your own discussion? Are they? Uh Oh, well, join in. Should Should we join in with the It says lots of Mhm. What what All right. Was it All right. Losing the apprentice. Was that like a big loss?

Is Is that like something So, losing in The Apprentice? Yeah. Was that something Do you know what? It was a It was a difficult pill to swallow because you go in there any competition, I go in there full force. I did want to win. Um but the kind of mindset that I have is I was like I I'm either going going to come out feeling incredibly low or I'm going to use this platform, or use this opportunity to do something good.

And as I was speaking to Mufti earlier, I actually didn't have any social network before going on The Apprentice. And only because of The Apprentice I started my social media accounts, and that has opened a lot of doors for me as well. Alhamdulillah. So, I didn't want that opportunity to go to waste, and I did have a couple of angel investments for my brand when I came out. All right. Angel investments, people. Angel. The The themselves come down from the to help.

Can you ask uh we are very poor here. Ask about Somebody said hash What is it? You're fired. Is that That's the thing, isn't it? You're fired. It's that one. You're fired. Do you teach online? Uh mentor online, sorry, is the word. Ali has asked. You do mentor online, and that's mainly through Instagram, is it?

Or through Zoom. So, we set up So, we do mentoring online. You can book that. You can You can just send me an email if you want. Or we can go to my Instagram page and email me then, and my team will get in touch with you. We do You can do it online through Zoom. We do it in groups of five, and in groups of 10. If you want to have lunch with us as well, and you can book one, or you can book three, or you can book six.

People, you've got the How do you approach dating from a relatively Islamic viewpoint? This is You know, I suppose this is an interesting one. What it I mean, it doesn't it doesn't have to be from a personal perspective, but generally, as somebody who's out there connected with many women, similar kind of let's say, you know, relatively young, but of a similar mature kind of age and mindset.

Right. Yeah. Relationships is always a tricky thing, isn't it? So, is this Do you perceive like many problems going on out there? Because I obviously I get a lot of questions, I get a lot of things, but it could just be because I'm seeing these questions. You know, it's like the the doctor only sees people who are sick. So, you know, he could assume the whole society is sick, but you know, maybe other people in other fields don't see it like that.

So, I mean, is is the relationship scene just messed up within within Muslim communities? What's what's what's going down with with with with with all of that? Well, the observations I've made, honestly, are either it's happening or it's never going to happen. They I I feel like the middle plane has gone. A lot of women are becoming which which which I will hold on.

I'm just going to rephrase that. Like perfect doesn't exist, and I think a lot of women are looking for perfection because they are What they're looking for perfection in the men, you mean? In men. Women are looking for perfection in men because they are seeing it on Instagram. In men, they're seeing it. And men are looking at it in women.

men seeing it in women I can understand, but women think perfection in men. Seriously? Is that They are looking for everything. So, basically, like because Instagram shows you highlights of people's lives, especially when it comes to marriages, cuz that's kind of a popular thing right now. Everybody wants that kind of This massive And and you know, and he's got to be going to the gym every day and Why me?

He's got to be going to the gym every day. He has to earn a minimum of 10 grand a month. Right? Yes, he he's got to earn at least that much. If you're looking at women in a career That that would be disclosing too much. That would be disclosing my cartel lifestyle. This is realistic. I think people's I think this is I think the expectations are too high. Nobody's getting a fair chance anymore.

And literally the swiping system has just messed it up because it just means that you discount anybody as quick as that. Wow. And I just feel like we've lost the essence of knowing getting to know people now. And I that's quite sad. I think you can just swipe them off. You know, just based on um maybe where he works. So, it's it's sad. I I feel like we've actually gone backwards when it comes to finding people in a relationship.

I think the old school way is works so much better. But could the old school work now that the mindset has become so high-octane and so we need like instant we need like constant is a better word. Constant kind of gratification of one means or another. Um could the old school You know, it's like trying to watch a movie from the '90s now. Like it would be so slow-paced. Like you'd be like, "What the hell? Is this in slow motion?" You know, it's like Because everything's so on, you know, one after the other now and people they they want their lives like that, you know.

And so the mundane is is I don't agree. I feel like we've we've essentially lost something and I believe that yes, with other things we want instant constant kind of gratification. But when it comes to finding a life partner, your husband or your wife, these are decisions that take time and you've got to do them properly and you want a fulfilling relationship.

Therefore, take the time and All fulfilling relationships a myth, though. Are what? Sorry, are are they Are they for truly fulfilling relationships? No, they're not. It takes a lot of work. No, it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of effort. Both parties have to be on board. You've got to know what each other wants. And then going back then with the I just believe that people should be meeting each other in person.

I I just believe that these dating apps, you know, well, this is good for like the instantaneous look, but get out there. Go to these these single dating places that they do. Because going One of the problems with this, you know, this Insta world thing is like You see, if like let's say people now they're looking they think, "Oh, wow, that girl is so pretty." And now they start talking and they're in a relation but then they will see a hundred other girls on there that will be equally pretty, maybe more prettier.

Uh this You see, it it what it do it contentment will is decimated. Like you can't in a world like that remaining content is so difficult then because you see you because the the optical pressure or like when you're seeing things constantly and you're seeing well, "Wow, well, cuz that's the thing that attracted a person in the first place." Now they're seeing it even better, seeing it even better.

They're seeing these fake lives. Um not fake but these sorry momentary lives of like, you know, everything's perfect. Yeah, the kind of I mean, is Is it just like what I know it's all chaos, but this is what makes, you know, to me ask the question, is there then a truly meaningful relationship that can uh that can subsist and exist not just exist momentarily, but long-term go on.

long-term Yeah. Yeah, you know what No, I mean, some of the points that you've touched on like are correct. And my advice, if I if people are happy for me to tell you Cool. Cool. Cool. Give us give the advice. For both guys and girls, don't confuse yourself. If you are interested in one person, stick to that one person. Get to know them. watch the Indian Matchmaking thing? Sorry?

Indian Matchmaking on Netflix. I watched that. Did you watch it? I watched it. But uh that's the advice the lady says as well about focus on uh on one. One time. One at a time. Because you know what what you what you don't want to do is start comparing. When you start comparing, you start confusing your mind. And just do take it one at a time. But I do believe we have to have hope with the fulfilling relationships do exist.

Cool. No. No. No. I I I think of course of course. I mean, I'm not like uh people obviously my my views will definitely know I'm not a pessimist by any measure. I'm definitely an optimist. But I do feel on these things, you know, sometimes people ask me and I just don't know what to say because I feel like hmm you know, I feel in some way we're all everybody's kind of winging it in some way. And I feel that you know, it just kind of works out to in some way.

And I I don't think it's like unless it's some rare person that they've had a magnificent plan in life and everything kind of just works out according to that plan. I think that's very exceptional if somebody's had it like that. I think for you know, most of us we're definitely just winging life to a great deal. Yeah. So, when people ask, you know, what should we do about I think like I don't I don't I don't know. Like what I'm you know what? I'm going to say things a little bit frank here.

Yeah, be frank. Be frank. The majority I mean, hopefully this will be okay to say. You can say anything. You're going to be blacklisted after this show anyway. Everybody's going to be like uh she's corrupt. She's been on this show. Mufti's corrupt. It's blacklisted. The jaws. No, look. Honestly, like I think it's safe to say that a lot and a a big number of people have been in a relationship before.

Right? A lot I think a lot of people can probably say that they have been. Even if it's an undercover one, majority people before they get married might have been in a relationship. They were on the phone, they were texting, or they were doing whatever. And the thing is, I think it's really important for people to to understand that those are experiences as well. So, if that doesn't work out and then you are looking to find a new partner for your marriage this time.

Perhaps you weren't married before and that wasn't marriage. All your experiences count for something, right? So, use those experiences to make yourself better. Cuz clearly, if you're still not with that person, it meant that something went wrong. So, the the aim is not to do that again. No. Um and I think I think we should also talk about self-awareness. And you really need to know yourself before you can go and love somebody else as well.

So, people need to start doing some self-work. It's really important to know who you are, what your expectations are, what you need, and then go in because that will give you a confidence to tell him or her what it is that you're looking for. Somebody wrote the optical pressure Mufti. LMAO. Right, some there was a question here that what do Muslims How would it go? It said like, "So, how do Muslims before getting married, do they just go on date after date after date?" It asked It's just moved up now, but I mean, that because that's another struggle in it in itself, isn't it?

Because that's like It's like It's an irony because it's it's a taboo as well within the Muslim community, deemed by many to be haram. You know, so many people will be you'd have the haram police on you. You'd have family would be like what the hell is she up to? What the hell is he up to whatever. So Yeah, I mean so as a question what do Muslims do? Somebody's asked. I'm assuming they're a non-Muslim.

Um What would you say? What do they do? Do they just swipe or You know what? I know and this may they come up for criticism but whatever like If you if you have the right intention and you like a girl or a guy then you should go for a coffee. Of course. You should go you should go for a coffee and you should meet each other and you should have the right conversations and I and yeah some people be like oh it's going to be haram take your mahram with you or take someone with you and I I get that.

It's not going to be very interesting with with your dad sitting there. It's impossible sometimes too you know? What if you don't have a mahram like I mean I've on that ruling I've just I've said already previously there is a separate clip on YouTube as well that I've said that look I don't believe it's haram to to kind of meet people and stuff like this and and I've explained that look when I've been asked that fine like people just go to public places coffee houses or whatever and just or you know, wherever a person feels it's suitable.

Um And I don't feel it's a haram kind of thing anyway, but I do feel that there are a lot of the haram police that would kind of condemn down on it. Uh another thing then is when people do that you know, this kind of courting process this this courtship process. Um What do you think about that? I mean how long should that go on for?

Okay, well look Let's get a Uh Gosh, this is a good question. an empowered female perspective. Wouldn't it all depend on Doesn't it all depend on when I mean are are we looking at it like the men and the women are going into this because they want to get married quickly? Is that what it Is that what it is? I don't know about quickly. I think they have a kind of an ideal They have an ideal in their mind that I would like to be married at some point soonish or whatever.

Um So but then I I've you know, people will speak to me. They'll say like oh, like let's say I've been in a relationship because there's no hiding it. Look, Muslims are no different from any other communities. They've got boyfriends, girlfriends, everything. It's a standard. It's not like they're normal human beings. They you know, they're they're not like some a community that just walk around in ihram doing tawaf all day, you know.

No one but the trouble is no one talks about it like that. Yeah, but I mean but it's real though. I mean it's real talk. And so, you know, if the So people will say look, they've been in a relationship with someone, let's just say girlfriend They've been like that for they will say years even, like 3 years, 2 years. Um you know, like what what are your I mean not from the Islamic viewpoint, but what are your thoughts on that then?

Because, you know, from when we studied psychology, this showed a lot of issues as well from the psychological studies that were done on courtship and the courting process and period. I believe that if it's taken as long as that, just give up. You see, but they ironically, they're sometimes okay still. Like they're like they're not like like they they have they don't like they're still kind of going.

Like let's say they'll still go on dates. They're still uh probably doing everything they're doing occasionally, but Yeah. I I I because I would feel that what that's done is it's it you see if these people were to now jump into a a fully lived in kind of relationship and nikahs and they both live together like a family, I think there's a great likelihood of it collapsing very soon after because that is because that false expectation has been and it's not Sorry, not false expect that kind of facade has been so extended so extended that it

would um like like when like let's say whenever he sees her, whenever she sees him, they they only see each other on a on a date where they are at their their best selves. Yeah. Now, in a normal everyday life, a person is not going to be their best self. So, No. uh you know, if you now move in and you've already lived that for years and you now move in, it or you now start the relationship in a formal capacity, I Yeah.

I think even psychological studies would show that that's it's you know, it's it's it's just going to be a great chance of I don't know if it will, but it's just going downhill. But, it's surprising there's a lot of uh you know, people that are like that, a lot of Muslims as well. It's just you know, standard. Uh I think there's there's so many reasons for that though because a lot I know that there are a lot of brothers, should I call them brothers?

There are a lot of men. Brothers? They're probably thinking at cha cha cha. Salam alaikum, sister. Okay, brother. God. That talk. I think something really funny before I was going to make my point. Yeah, go for it. So, when I used to have my shop in South London near the masjid, so I used to be in there sometimes and the funniest line I used to get, because I used to have my staff working there as well, is I used to have brothers come into the shop, and they'd go, "As-salamu alaykum, sister.

Can I ask you if you're married?" Some next-level sickness going on there. I don't know what it is, what kind of Yes, brother. Gosh. Uh I don't know what it is with people, this kind of like brother, sister, everybody for I just I I just found that quite funny to share with everybody.

But, you know, when it comes to what you were saying about that point, I believe that there should be a limit. I think if you've been with someone for like 2 years and you haven't fully committed and you're not kind of sharing, I guess, all the other parts of you, or perhaps he might be feeling overwhelmed with the responsibility of having to provide, because I think a lot of men also have that part that they have to be the kind of dutiful husband, that he may not be ready for those expectations, because she's either not working or she's not looking to work.

Like, I think a lot of things um there are a lot of components to it. But, I I did I didn't know. I think 2 years is too much, like I I would agree, personally. I would I would think that You know, I felt, personally, that sometimes some of the best decisions in life are taken impulsively. On on things like this. I I don't know if that's my personal kind of thing in life. Like, I've felt that some of Like, when I think about the things and certain important decisions I've made in life at different points, they've been usually not the ones, ironically, counterintuitively.

Uh well, and by best, I don't mean whether the I I mean the ones that really kind of like may have worked out in great ways. Uh they most likely weren't the things that I was planning and doing this. They were more so the things that I just did, you know, I just like just impulsively just did them. Like I just felt like, all right, let's do it, and I just did it. Like just like that.

And and I felt that that, you know, whether it's even in work or I suppose but for professions people would require, you know, they can't sometimes do these things impulsively. But maybe they just took a certain job just on a, you know, and maybe they just did something like that or you know what, I'm going to buy it this car. You know what, I'm going to do it like like sometimes I felt that that impulsiveness, it's it like it it kind of like removes the stress of having to sometimes so uh, you know, like because when you overthink something, sometimes you can't see it that clearly.

It kind of fuzzes out and you get so, oh my god, what if this goes wrong? What if that goes wrong? What if uh, you know, what if it's like that? What if this person turns out to be this or what if this thing breaks or what if that, you know, it's if you just do it. I don't know. Well, do you think it's more sort of instinct versus if you are indecisive, then usually go against So basically, if you are indecisive about something, it usually means that you don't want it.

And your instinct is what kicked in to make that impulsive decision and there's something kind of positive in that that's making you kind of impulsively say That's interesting. I mean, I don't You see, because I'm just trying to relate to it. I don't think necessarily I'm an indecisive person. Like I'm usually just just fine, but but I've just noticed in life like when I've done certain things, I've just done them impulsively.

And you know, it's like like a very small example, like even these kind of like this Minecraft podcast thing. Like when I just started it, I just you know what? I was just sitting down one day, I'm here and I'm chatting to some friends. You know what? Let's just go live. Let's do this. And it's like when I started something else, like when I started my Q&A, which has been now running for about 3 years, I just started it like one day I was just back from the gym and I was just like you know what?

Let's just go live. Let's just Let's just do it. Let's start taking people's questions. And and it wasn't like what I'm trying to say is it wasn't this great like I sat down and planned and came up with this like things just kind of unfold and they just kind of work out like that. Like when I bought this particular Okay, I won't go too much into materialistic things. But like I just one day said, you know what?

All right, I need a new car. Like I'm just going to Like I wasn't Like what I'm trying to say is that sometimes I I just feel it works with me, but I I I maybe it's it's it's a disaster for some people, but I've just felt that some people think so much about things that that it scares them. Yeah. like scared because when you Like if I say, "Okay, should I do this?" And then I say, "Okay, you know what? Let's think about this for 6 months." You think, "What the hell?" You know, like you're going to be like So what you do So what what what happens with that is you end up talking yourself out of it.

You have enough time to talk yourself out of it. The brain will do both things. So in a way you are right about sort of taking that instinctive step, but usually it's because if people are looking for a spouse, if there are like more positive things then just instinctively make that decision and go, "I've been looking for like 5 years. She's amazing or he's amazing. I'm just going to go with it and I'm going to do this." And once you say you're going to do something, then put your 100% effort in it and make it work.

Excellent point. Excellent point. Well, you you know, it's been amazing Bushra, you know, sharing these words, these thoughts, these ideas. Um I I see a few people have uh Right. Oh, they're talking about David Wood something. Okay, you I'll I'll I'll share Somebody's saying, "Can you go live on David Wood?" Yeah, we'll discuss that in a moment. But, uh shukran.

Absolute It's been an absolute pleasure having you on Mind Trap today, Bushra, sharing all this. Inshallah, empowering the the the the business acumen of the folk out there. If people want to reach out to you, if they want to connect um if they're interested in your mentorship, um and I did, you know, initially I was thinking mental ship.

You know, when you said mentorship, I was like, "Mental?" I was thinking, "Did she just say mental ship? What kind of a project is that?" It's mentorship, people. Mental ship. Right. That's That's Yeah, that's that's That was my misunderstanding cuz I I was I was like, "What did you just say?" So, if people want to reach out, connect, what's the What What are the best platforms?

So, everyone can find me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, um and my handle is @BushraOneShake. You can hit me up on LinkedIn if you want to as well. Um just send me a DM, or you can uh email me bushra.shake@hotmail.co.uk. I think the easiest way is just going onto my Insta, sending me a DM, and it's got all my my links to contact and email there as well.

And just let me know what you need. Cool. And I'll What I'll do is I'll get your Insta feed thing, and I'll I'll put it on the YouTube description, as well. So, if people want to If they want to connect, they've got that. Cool. Somebody's just said, "Well, you've got very uh Zeb asked said she has very nice hair." There you go. She has nice hair. You've You're doing And there were a few I will say there were a few proposals I think going in there as well, but I'll let you read those in the comments.

Afterwards, you're like, "What the hell?" Oh, it's been amazing. It's been really, really cool. When I I had like 101 questions, which uh maybe I'll I'll send to you that you can you can help me out with, but we should definitely um have a chat. Definitely, definitely. Inshallah. Shukran, people. It's been an absolute pleasure. Somebody has said something about um David Wood's getting on to his thing. I don't know how to get on to his thing.

So, if somebody can maybe Insta me or send me a message on how to get on to David Wood's uh live debate, I will. Cool. Take very good care of yourselves, folks. Uh if you haven't already subscribed to uh to my channel, then you secret haters, you you you you still haven't subscribed to my channel, goddammit. I'm going to bring up the slide now, so do like, subscribe, uh click the notification bells, uh and I'm on Patreon, too.

So, people, take very good care of yourselves, as always. Salamullahi alaykum wa rahmatullahi ta'ala wa barakatuh.