Your Legacy Shall Speak For Itself | Meaning with MALM #37

[Music] assalamu alaikum all right let me just check that we is live all right so

just check on the audio make sure that's going through if you guys uh anybody tuning in just uh let me know if you can hear the audio all good shukrin from florida all right wow yes

you know this almost today didn't go ahead uh one two other things and then when i finally freed from that you know the camera i use it has this uh portable um i mean it has this kind of uh power lead to it an adapter and i don't know where my i couldn't find my little one the gremlin the demon should i say he had i don't know why but had misplaced it somewhere so i looked everywhere i was like yeah salaam

and obviously without that the camera won't operate so but you know something sometimes when sometimes when everything seems to be going in the wrong direction that is a sign to move forward in that direction allah you see it's counterintuitive people think when things are going wrong that it's a sign to back off and sure i mean that makes sense as well in certain

circumstances clearly but sometimes it is that that is when you strike allah allah and the divine algorithm unfolds before you so people what i wanted to do today is i wanted to really just get on with what i'm going to cover try to compress um today's session so so as to cover what i

want and need to cover and get some of you honest guests and still have enough time all right let me just see where is the file yes salaam i need to you know what i just realized i've got a bunch of these here i should start deleting them so as to not confuse myself

a lot a lot let's take that back your lefty shall speak for itself allah your legacy shall speak for itself that's what i'm talking about right and faith a favor unto us what do i mean by this and what is this talking about quranic guidance and i thought since we

we'd introduced um within to introduce previously imam abu hanifa when will we introduce the dawn of madina imam malik himself so why not today people that's what we'll do so yeah right let me take a look allah and in light of legacy people

two quotes that i thought yeah look at the style and you when will you begin that long journey into yourself see often the greatest journey is counterintuitively the shortest journey because it's really into yourself which once again is is the most profound and in-depth

journey that you'll ever take in life you did come into this world that what shall we say meet when they ask us that you did come into this world but what did you leave behind that's the so let me oh this is i need to get a get a haircut again it's that time shall i say let me check who

has tuned in people right big man saying right back at you allah bless you audio is good on facebook

much love much love from the land down under that's arrived wrapping australia brian davis salam and clay saying is always zara's fault it's always zozo's fault [Laughter] um

rosalina and welcome back i've seen you on the live stream in quite a while adam ice isa alright floating man hope you and your family are well choker and chicken we are love be praised i almost didn't recognize you i almost don't recognize myself yeah this is a journey people in light which reminds me let me once i can check who else is scorpio

all right we've got much appreciated earthman all right lonzetta mark okay what is going on right so whilst people are tuning in let's take a look at some epic it's always great to see some lines of poetry

and you know today what i want to speak about is keeping the theme or the backdrop is about faith a favor unto us and that's really about maybe realigning our perspective to the faith

interesting because we can see things from many angles many perspectives but let's begin with some poetry because you know what poetry does it teaches us to view things from angles it relates it's it's okay for something that evokes the emotions so where are we allah this i came across this poem of john ilia and i thought what it says i'd not actually read this previously

so it was quite new that it that i'd come across it a bit distant from me foreign

he says that ya allah if you truly are closer to me than the jugular vein if that be the case

[Laughter] if that be then what is this imposition of angels placed on the shoulders allah you know this this question [Music] has so much depth and profundity to it

that it would just take hours attempting to answer it sometimes it's better not to answer things just let them be just go with it but it's a i guess it's your relationship with god your relationship with the divine that a person can even ask such a question that what is this this

this kind of imposition this um if you yourself are right here with me closer than my thoughts then what are these outer layers of secondary tertiary supervision

it's a it's a relationship that a person has that they can ask such a question right let's take a look at and speaking of i saw here this isn't actually allama iqbal they've just got his picture there i saw this

[Laughter] [Music] that live your life or else before you know it it will be gone this is once again bringing us back into that moment so just wow

so i thought i'd select that for the day and a perspective on worship see this comes back to the layers of faith this once again the the the tapestry of what's being said you've run so deep that

is that we have stumbled upon upon eyes that were shedding tears and what we did is we turned them into joy and laughter now tell me an act of worship better than that it's a perspective it's not to it's understanding what people are saying and the makasi the maksad

of your direction because when a person worships ultimately you're worshiping for yourself one could say that in ibadah there is the perpetual risk of ego people say i pray so i get this from god [Laughter] some people say i do that so to avoid

something from god they say i do this to gain more blessings to gain a structure to gain this to gain that game game game all this all this low level aim one can do it there's nothing wrong with one could argue that certain ayat of the quran allow people to do that because this is the this is how many people will aim in life

they will aim low the quran of course understands that so it allows that relationship with them a reward this a recompense a pleasure a gift a blessing a bounty

but this ultimately there's nothing wrong with it but it's still very self-centered really one ought to say that why they do these things is for god himself janna this that get my barakah get my this get my

oh it's all nafsi nafsi [Music] see those people who do they perform they they act out this goodness they will get goodness but there is an extra there is a ziada the ziada is allah himself that's what many of us sirians say

you aim high the highest that is there is nothing beyond that you see and this trickles into other aspects of your life you aim high in other things and that's the legacy that you shall live by but this poem in a way bringing a smile to somebody else's face is moving away from the ego to the other it's one step removed

there's a lot of wisdom in these things this is why the hadith says i think i may have cited this previously that so many people before us that were legends where did they go

and the earth has swallowed up people who you could people who were like celestial bodies for us i mean that's how huge they were these people were like the cosmos walking on earth that's in terms of their legacy but they but they too had to go allah

see this there's a sorrow there's a way that looking at it could seem a bit melancholic but the other way of looking at it is it encourages you to also leave that you since time is finite one embrace it live it enjoy it and leave a story worth telling a legacy that shall speak for itself

this is the other which is on a similar secondary s that said on the same thing as well all right i take it that's it for the i'll take a look unless they let me check yep that's it all right so

let me see what is going on yes m that's an interesting name sephora we'll have to figure that out what how is that how is it being spelled is it from sin safor is it from

guys behave behave [Laughter] i see some testosterone is running high in the comments breathe breathe there's so much to to smile about

riffy johnson shukran shukran much love for the super chat always extending your love and support may allah keep you always blessed i mean right i want to mention i don't know if you guys had come across um just checking i made you know sometimes i make some little notes if i want to say something and i in case i forget it um right what i'll do is i'll say some words also about jordan peterson's message to muslims

[Laughter] so we'll speak a bit about that um cool any ah firstly i want to um [Music] just to let people know that those who are familiar with uh professor dr matthew sajid he was on a mind trap with me amazing epic um you know epic human being may allah bless him

unfortunately his mother has passed away may allah bless his mother's afterlife and grant her jannatul that was just the day before yesterday and just yesterday a good friend of ours salim who's also a patreon who's a patron uh of mine as well on patreon uh his mother as well passed away so may allah bless their afterlives grant them both an elevated

genetal fertiles and may allah grant ease to the families that have been left behind on that i just wanted to share some brief thoughts that you see death often and naturally so is a

it's a it's an event that thrusts us into a state of grieving and mourning naturally so there's nothing that's very rightly so one may say however i wanted to add see that's very intuitive that with somebody has

passed we are grieving we are shocked and shaken tragically by the loss and may allah replace all these difficulties these hardships with ease and joy abundantly but i wanted to say that another way of looking at the situation is that yes these people have passed but in a way you can see it as as in addition to mourning the loss of these people

you can see the accomplishments of these people that these people anybody and this goes to anybody who has um who has lost someone that these people appeared on the stage of life and they performed and they delivered

but it's the legacy that they left in this case these people who are the children whose parents have passed with their mothers have passed they themselves are the testimony of what those people have left behind the mother is the first madrasa the the kind the the institute of terbia and just

a source of baraka rahma compassion so one way of looking at it is commemorating well what these people their lives they you know they live sure there may have been many ups and downs there may have been many struggles there may have been many hardships countless hardships but in spite of that they did it they lived they left a legacy and their story

deserves to be told and it is in part the money it is manifested and one could say metaphorically incarnate in the offspring or the people that they've left behind that say like in the quran those who come after me they speak a word of a kind word about me and you remain alive as long as people

you as long as you are alive in the hearts and minds of people so that's one way of looking at it that actually a person could as it were almost celebrate the life of this person and show their story on this dunya has come to an end tiger everybody's does but yours is still going

and you still have that legacy to that leave did you leave behind so i just wanted to say that because so often and it's rightly so that we get you know we are completely drowned in this whirlwind of tragedy that we forget to see the the the legacy that this person left and to all and to use that

as a support to overcome the grief to think that alhamdulillah that they lived you know this is a it's a privilege to have lived they participated in this consciousness and its expression and they left their story for others to tell that come after them allah that is that is something so i just wanted to share those words

right oh this is reminds me of the seo people uh who don't refer to it as death or someone has died they say they have began their journey so true and you know the quran says

is just it's a fleeting state a moment that a person just says that every self every eagle shall just taste from it it's beautiful when you think of it it's so wow i mean scary but it's also poetically mesmerizing could have seen

it's only a comma not a full stop as me says that but he says what's his point that is it wait they let me that i'll bring it up actually

let's see all right let's see so oh it's not come it's not come up right let's leave it for now all right let's move on i want to take a

look at um is this live it's not showing up on facebook ah okay i did get some people saying they can see it on facebook any advice on how to deal with the fear of death especially not knowing your fate after you die is a scary thought so i mean first of all shukran much love for the super chat may allah bless you

you i really feel that we have to have we have to change our relationship with god you know this van that we have allah says that that have this is the the sorry the the hadith that the you should always be always any expectancy relating to god should always be positive never negative that is you know that's on you if you have that it's wrong this that is never how it

should be always positive so and there are i mean there's ways people you need to one needs to bring a calmness to them there are certain ways to um [Music] embrace or to dispel a fear of death through a calmness through mindfulness through improving your understanding of of god that god is not this tyrant or

this that people some people make him out to be this benevolent dictator that's not eliza rahman so there's this understanding level there's other aspects there's a mindfulness bringing a calmness and then for those who walk the path of consciousness there are sacred medicines through which a person experiences ego death and [Music]

they say that that is allahu alam as death itself is to be or a mirror of it and truly it is ineffable and the most terrifying thing a person could ever ever experience in that moment and they know it in that moment to be death but people who experience or walk this path of consciousness and take sacred medicine

things like mushrooms things like dmt these things that the the ego death that they experience or or for some who've not um maybe they don't maybe the ego they don't really experience much of an ego death but they experience a glimpse or in a reflection a tiny mirror reflection into an intimation of a life

beyond this life they experience consciousness without the ego without the self they experience something that because we've never experienced to be without this body but for once it happens and then they realize that

that there is that it was that it was certainty then it becomes manifest to them that it was the reality or that god was that he all along was the truth so yeah these things people usually overcome a fear of death through sacred

medicine but it is you know maybe it's not for everyone but it is something that this is why i've always felt that it's not fair that these things are not available to people on palliative care that they're not that they're not allowed to experience these things even if they want to not it's not facilitated for them in a secure setting that somehow the government

the government claims a stake in our level of consciousness if ever there was an act of hubris of self-conceited just ah astronomical to kabur

it was that a government felt that they had a right over your consciousness yes but yeah and that is what it is that to it is for a person governments feel they can tell you that oh if you have if you take mushrooms psilocybin and or dmt and it alters your consciousness they tell you you're not allowed to do this

[Laughter] do you see the arrogance you know this this is the the embodiment of the that a bunch of people

you know they they lay stake they they claim a mistake to your level of consciousness and should it be altered they proscribe and prohibit in an attempt to control it's a shocking it's like wow you know the level of of arrogance is it's it's humorous in in the best case scenario

ah you're insane what can one say huh let's move on speaking of the world changing and right i wanted to uh say i'm not sure if you've come across this advert or not an advert a um a clip presenting the new

vision of saudi arabia in designing its new city or several settlements sorry settlements amongst them the line if you haven't seen it ladies and gentlemen you have to you have to check it out it is like something just purely out of sci-fi it's like whoa what on earth is going on here just like wow the line huh i don't i can't with it um

no i can't really and i don't have the clip on here otherwise i would have played it but it's something you have to check out it's like they've created for miles along i believe is it that and is i think wow right i i need to get the measurements in front of them but it's incredibly high this structure and it's taller than the empire state building and it's it's reasonably wide but it's like a wall which is created in almost a mirror-like structure

and it's completely self-reliant with it's meant to have zero carbon emissions and everything is within this uh line that there's it will accommodate up to nine million residents it's like wow that's i've forgotten what what is london right now is it yeah i think that's it's london i think is six million or seven million yeah so you're talking london birmingham put together and more so wow 9 million residents everything

within and it's got its own transport it's got its own ai it's being operated by a.i artificial intelligence wow we are living in the future people it's but i tell you you know i watched it and i'm like whoa this looks like something out of a sci-fi movie and i'm kind of excited about it but there's a side of me that's a bit daunt i find it daunting there's like an uncanny feeling that something unsettling about it but i can't quite

understand what's unsettling but yeah if you haven't check it out uh yeah it's like 200 meters wide but it's like ridiculously long as well and it's it's it's cr it's just you have to see it it'll just blow your mind you'll be like wow um all right yep the line they call it see mbs is going places [Laughter] ah your mbs see this is what um

this is imagine being in that league there's people like that as well that wake up and [Laughter] they make these decisions wow would you you see i wonder what life would be like for certain people like that let's all be very grateful for our own lives and our own little struggles and our own achievements right in light of that let's move to the verses i want to recover today or somebody said how much will the project cost it's several trillion i

believe several trillion they had some estimate on it um right let me bring this back go to today's verse and what we can do is move forward people speaking of settlements i want to share these verses with you that are from verse 13 to 18 of suratul

so let's bring this up okay indeed we created you from a single peer a male and a female

and and there is this you know there is this binary that people need to understand that they and i feel i'll come on to this discussion later on but allah is showing that through this harmony of let's say metaphorical opposites

what we've got here and we made you settlements we made you us which is plural of a settled people cities towns folks civilization wakaba il rural people farmers

hunter-gatherers foragers we made you these different people spread out in the earth but then allah tells us the secret behind that why why you know why these litter of so that you may come to know one another the experiences the stories the legacy of each other

then reminding you that keep in mind that the most noble not amongst yourselves not the king not the politicians not the celebrities that they they may be noble amongst you in the according to god those who are most mindful of god that have that have god consciousness

now there's some interesting verses that come straight after this that from this teaching us about almost our one could say and origin story but the trajectory of insania that we may come to know one another we are dependent we are interdependent species

and then reminding us that look get it's there's such a joy and a pleasure in getting to know one another but always in doing so you might end up becoming arrogant you might end up harming people oppressing people remember that god consciousness and here this is what matters according to god not how much money you make not how many followers you have not how much influence you have not how many sports cars or mansions or properties what matters to god

is your taqwa your mindfulness of god from that it takes us straight to okay so when speaking of god what is our relationship with god and here's an example these people these kind of hard and they were here it's using the example of bedouins just as a this is a placeholder for people whose hearts are still they're developing they're on the journey yet

you see here is about we have faith but it's being said in a way that as if we have arrived this is this is what these people are thinking this they are on the journey but they're saying we have arrived

right you've got sorry that's let the plane go past that allah is saying you have not see here it's not allah is not negating that they don't have faith but what it means is in terms of

[Music] that when you use an action a verb are you using it in terms of its completion or in terms of its beginning inception so this is a principle in solar if we said um so if i said oh yesterday at eight o'clock i ate so does that mean i began to eat i ate or does it mean i finished eating at eight so there's a debate amongst the usually so here

when allah is saying this is not about see because the same way you could speak about an action eating is obviously a you know relatively rapid action but let's say there's something about excellence something about faith there is a beginning and a treat and an ending just as allah says in the quran

about jesus they did not kill him they did not crucify him now one of the understanding one of the ways to look at that is that doesn't negate that he was put on a cross and crucified it means they did not successfully in terms of the ma'al the ma'al is the consequence the end result of that action that was not a completion not the beginning of it so if i let's say i began a degree but if i did not complete the degree i don't have the degree

regardless of whether i did one and a half years or i did two years if i don't complete it i'm not considered as somebody who has it so similarly in with verbs in usual you have this issue so you do not have faith in terms of its completion you do not have it but say we have submitted why is this being said because to submit is to begin the journey

and that is where you are you you are just at the beginning i mean there's a long way to go yet but it's a beautiful journey it's a mesmerizing journey but you're but it's still a journey ahead of you this means not yet okay it's an archaic use not used in modern standard arabic

in terms of the ending end result that immanuel kamil has not yet entered your heart it is not to say these people weren't muslim but this is what it's addressing see this there is a and if you follow if you obey if you listen if you have this love for god for his messenger

let's come in this isn't going to decrease you in any harm it decrease you in any in anything from what you're doing your project continues you know it's interesting people they say well people struggle with faith and they say well you know faith ah you know if i believe what is the purpose of this what does this do what does that do what you know if you do

you only that you will see or people with faith recover from illnesses much sooner they cope with tragedies in life much in a much more healthier way they overcome many hurdles and challenges in life they find meaning in life you know it's there was that debate where an atheist

in this case susan blackmore where she was saying well nothing really means anything because everything is just random and coincidental and so nothing means anything and by that admission everything she is doing or all we are doing means nothing either so by that admission it can't be wrong since wrong is even if a person did believe it can't in a meaningful way be wrong because wrong is not a meaning

it is simply the coherence or the incoherence alleged incoherence within a structure of which there is ultimately no coherence you're just saying that this is this oh this is just something within this game but none of this game means anything anyway so so how does even by that argument faith you may in a very small relational aspect you may say well oh this doesn't make sense but since meaning holds no meaning there are no meta meanings

so what difference does anything make ultimately you see from your actions the things you do does not take away it will only add meaning flavor in allah from this from this this this scene this landscape of people now this portrait of some people who are beginning this journey of faith

they're mistaken they think oh i'm at some height some summit allah is reminding them humble yourselves [Laughter] that you know it's quite a it's quite a trek yet it's quite a trek i mean enjoy but it's quite a drag that so what's the what's the uh dili hanus you know there's a proverb that dilly yet remains quite far but this

it's quite a trick enjoy yourself but it's quite from here one may ask the question well what is how does faith truly integrate in one's life you're given a description that sure complete faith

as close to perfection as one may possibly attain is that one has faith in allah in his messenger they are not perturbed they are not disturbed by these wavering doubts or by these things that they have this they have this story

they strived and this jihad is of all its manifestations and ibn he explains that he writes that as well that the struggle is of all kinds of the ego of countless anything that brings a person closer to god and it has its he mentions that it has its military manifestation

and that may have been in a particular time the most salient feature and in another time there may be a different salient feature of it that's anything that takes these paths that lead back to god are many you know manifold and here it mentions him with their wealth they struggled

well unforesee him and their self they and this could mean it could mean from to the extent that they were prepared to where islam was under attack where all these they were prepared to give their lives this is the utmost a person would do in this world from a worldly perspective or you bring it back to the everyday and the nafs is what what i'm fussy him is the ego because that's the same word in arabic

and the eagles it begins right here as well this is also this is the everyday this concerns every single person this one and it's for all times and it's always happening right now what's interesting is following that we go straight to the

verse so you've got this a definition a description okay so we've got that we've got an understanding this is what faith can look like in one of its one in its its complete manifestation remember this these are those people who are at the summit at the pinnacle of faith okay that they are people prepared to you know give it all for god so then allah brings us back to reality with people we meet every day with ourselves maybe this is us looking into a mirror

now my [Laughter] allah says do you teach god about your faith you know people sometimes they say why me why is this happening to me why is god doing this to me i've done this i've done that

you're teaching god at allah that these people are doing a favor unto you that they have embraced this this path this faith that they are they claimed it's as though they are doing a favor unto god yeah yeah i prayed you know i used to pray and

fast how could this happen to me you know atamunda are you you doing a favor unto god they're doing a great favor you know the hubris sometimes we think ah you know where are we ah i'm such a great person i'm such a oh i'm so holy i'm so i'm doing all this for islam you ain't doing anything mate there's nothing going on

whatever you're doing it's only for yourself aslam [Laughter] you're all right you can have it keep your faith

the reality is truth be told god this is by giving you guiding you to faith this is a favor unto you your life has become enriched your life has found more meaning your journey has become easier you have found more of a narrative to extract strength from you you you this is all you

you see allah is is is showing favor unto you brought you to this if you really think about this

if you are truthful in your evaluation in your expression then yeah allah by guiding you to this and sometimes you have been guided through adversity sometimes you've been guided through struggles sometimes your life is a mess sometimes there's all kind you know you're a rock bottom soviet

you know do you why as a lot in the world get yourself up and get moving it is what it is your faith is for you god doesn't get anything out of us doing things you want your jannah you want your blessings you want your you you you you you you

have you ever did you do it just for god [Laughter] at what point did you worship solely just for god when wasn't it that i want this i want that i want an increase rapist give us give us give us give us give us it was always it began and ended with us so

when we find ourselves in a dark spot when we find ourselves stuck in a rut when we've hit rock bottom when we're drowning in in tragedy we have to get up we have to swim out of it we have to keep moving forward allah has given us that strength in in that faith but allah

that maybe this whatever it is and some are tested through blessings some are you know they they it's it's interesting that we some people they they only have privileges and they live in a in a you know in a perpetual discontent you see all these celebrities all these social media influences all these people um depressed i'm depressed i'm depressed

i'm drug addict i'm this i'm that i can't cope with reality millions and millions of people adore them they've got fame they've got money they live in you know making multi multi-millionaires but they have discontent that's the that's their struggle you see but allah guides to faith by various means see that's their journey that's their script let's see how they do let's see how they

deliver on this stage of life allah but it reminds us never to hold anyone in contempt don't ever everybody is fighting a difficult battle true some more difficult than others like in la you can live for long so but we should never look down on people never think if we can't help them then if possible just say a kind a fleeting kind to are for them

allah help that person allah give that person more you know you want to come face to face with the ego i tell you this is the trickiest thing and i'm telling you try this sometimes you know sometimes when somebody has something and they're let's say they're a friend or or their person a friend is even easier but you'll see the ego at play just on your own try to make it quickly or do i say allah give them even more [Laughter] oh

that person would be like um see this this isn't even really about the other person it's about yourself that if you can do it it's try it sometime you'll see how difficult this struggle is allah ends this verse with reminding you see because how difficult is this truth

and allah you see he knows he sees the unseen he knows it and allah is indeed all seeing of that which you do that which you do in secrecy that which you do behind closed doors that which you do when you make a sender say a little prayer for someone that you don't even think needs it allah is all seeing you see you say something like that remember allah when he

see when one of the most you see how do i to to capture this we ask according to our we ask and request in accordance with our status allah gives in accordance to his soul it's true though and this is even in the dunya as well that you see a person if they

in fact there was a i was listening to this um this story of um um of this person this this beggar who comes to one of the abbasid kings and and he does something and he says sure ask whatever you like and he asks um he asks for something so small and petty he's just like some he says you know if i could just have he asked for something so small like if i could just have these a few a very small portion a tiny little thing of of rice or some something very

small and the the the king he says he kind of instructs for him to have he gives him this immense reward of all these he's obviously in in this story when this is at the end of the story he's he's giving him all this kind of these dinars and all this kind of money and and his advisor says to him that what are you doing like he just asked you for a small a tiny portion of rice like not even a bowl a tiny portion he said yeah but he asked in accordance with his status

and we gave in accordance to our own you know person so what keeping that in mind you see when a person making a prayer for someone else you will see the barakah of this in your own life you will see the floodgates of risk opening up there is not a see you can't ascribe a causal relationship to these things but you could define it by what in jungian terms or some psychologists refer to synchronicity

that the coming together of events so people i want to share these verses i hope they are of uh let me just check is my that can't be so am i no [Music] no no no i thought for a moment the internet connection was unstable can that actually be well let me just click this uh nope i'm sure that's ah

right okay no it seems to be fine but right just open this up and check um it shows that yep i'm connected sure sorry sorry for some reason it was showing a signal right let's move on people let's take a look at some of your questions and move on i'll share the link as well stream is fine

right yep it seems to for some reason the the platform was just confusing me right let's move on i did want to introduce um the legacy of imam malik you know before i do that i'll say some words and then i'll share the link to bring you guys on um oh jordan peterson i want to say a few words on jordan peterson's message to muslims what are my thoughts on it well okay i'm sure you've all

watched it by now i i think it's about seven seven minutes long jordan peterson made a bunch of messages to different people to ceos a message to christian i think to christians to other people and to muslims and because he has a very strong muslim following as well right his message to muslims

you know for someone i i i am a fan of jordan peterson but i have to say his message was abysmally appalling and it just i don't know what on earth was going on it seemed so um artificial it seemed it was very condescending it was just so ill-informed and it was it wasn't even it's not even i mean it's really informed but it was so superficial which was completely not like jordan peterson this is the the

shocking thing i mean he's somebody so profoundly intelligent that when he's asked questions he'll say well that's an incredibly complex and complicated question because he has a lot of moving parts and he goes into all of so his message very briefly was that look muslims um i mean he was grateful that muslims have this dynamic in this relationship with him and follow him but he felt that um right muslims need to stop fighting amongst themselves they

need to stop this sunni shia divide or sorry sunnishi are fighting sectarian hatred and fighting they need to start loving one another they need to extend start loving the people of the book the christians and god forbid start loving the jews and you know we have the abraham accord which you know he mentions the abraham accord and and so and we need to perhaps take pen pals from different sects and different faiths to realize that the true enemy is not

uh the people of scripture but the enemy is the enemy within and the whole and that was the gist of the message and the message was so condescending yeah it was like it was just so what i what re and it felt like he was reading it out this is what it felt like it wasn't like how he normally speaks with just just a natural vibe it was very artificial it was imposed i personally felt that maybe it was written for him and he just read it

and i think part of that may have been because i know he is moving towards he has joined the platform the daily wire and i'm sure there's certain agreements with things like this because you see joining these platforms that then extend to you a an abundance of wealth you see they give you let's say millions potentially i don't know exactly how much they've given him but i

wouldn't be surprised if you know we're talking in the millions i'm assuming um which then frees him up to do or at least in you know what nears these kind of astronomical figures which is to free him up from relying on other sourced streams of income but then like anything it comes with a price you know there are no free lunches so you have to pay these prices to to just do certain things and i think maybe part of that was to say this to

um it just you see i guess the underlying message um one could say well the underlying message i guess sure i mean that's just a message of saying look people have less discord and disunity amongst yourselves and let's move towards compassion and love which i think is a wonderful message but it's just the way it's being said with such super simplicity and not simplicity simplistic means well for example um the sunnis divide the way

everybody knows that the it is less so about sunni shia and it is more so about politics it is about iran it is about the neighboring states it is about iraq it is about the uh vacuum that was created it is about it's more political the issue i i don't mean the sunni shia issue is political sure i mean that's a different kind of politics we're talking about historical politics but i mean the that the tension that is in certain parts of the world is more a consequence of politics than it is of theology

so that there's been isis and so on and all these things and it's not it's not about oh hey sunishia sure i agree that you know there should be more harmony but to say well guys you know stop it now behave oh stop it oh no you know this this is what the hell are you on about and to say look come on you know christians ate your enemies and jewish people ain't your enemy but muslims have never felt i'm not saying there haven't been times when people have been warring

but by being a christian you are not an enemy of islam the quran says they are al-kitab they are akram in terms of compassion to you from the scriptures of these people the people of the book muslims have always had a very close um a very close bond of a societal bond with jews and christians right from the time of bin laden there's they've been very close sure there's been argue you know there's been

there's been differences as well there's been wars as well between christendom and islam let's say the you know the islamic cut so to speak but this but there's also been close ties of friendship there's been intermarrying there's been the quran says you can do these things you can eat you can eat their meat you can intermarry these things have always been there even with the jewish people there's been for hundreds of years jewish communities still living today in morocco that migrated from muslim space that muslim spain chose to migrate to the muslim lands there's you know centuries old jewish

communities living in iran the issue with the jewish muslim dynamic is not faith it's israel it's political it's the israel-palestinian issue that's what it's been it's not been so if you went back let's say into the 19th century backwards you retrospectively you wouldn't find this issue because the nation states hadn't fully been divided and and israel hadn't been created so okay

right so for somebody so intelligent surely you understand because it you know there's this the geopolitics the sensitivities the the complications it's not just about hey let me write to a pen pal say oh you know hey my uh christian brother hey my jewish brother hey my shia brother this this is not what it's about that that's not the issue isn't that they don't have sure i mean maybe some people don't have a medium to connect but that's not the issue you could easily find you know if a person want to find a

christian community you could just go on facebook and type in christian communities near you it's not that that's not difficult to find you don't need a pen pal system it's these things are so that there's so much sub uh strata to all of these complexities which are deeply nested in power structures and nested in uh in abuse and a long history of of of this kind of turmoil which is also which is the consequence of colonialism so to say for example

the muslim world needs to you know a lot of it needs to pull its act together the muslim world is in a state that it is let's be i'm not saying entirely not saying entirely but undeniably a an element that must be factored into that equation that today where muslims are is that their resources were robbed and stolen and they had the you know their territories uh pillaged and raped by colonial powers for between one to two three hundred years

that's it's you can't deny that that's not i'm not saying that's the only reason that's not sure you know since independence muslim these countries some have done well and some haven't and once again politics plays a role but some and then there's a lot of corruption and people i'm not so i'm not saying it's solely but it's an undeniable element that we can't just ignore this element and say well the only reason why uh let's say muslim countries are in a mess is because ha they can't get over sunni

shia that's stupid i mean you could take many tribes in iraq have been they in fact i was speaking to someone about the um jabul tribe in iraq that's apparently one of the large tribes that that is a um a a synthesis of uh sunni and shia uh inter marriages for centuries and this is why it's a very noble tribe um i was being told and explained to so it's not that sunny these are the issues why we're so behind

sure maybe some people they are behind because of this but this is not why the countries are behind so for example pakistan as a country so you will get let's say some mad mullahs and some mulvi kind of people that are like totally obsessed with sectarianism and dogmatism you will get that but that's not why the country pakistan is stagnating for example the country is stagnating because of other reasons and amongst it you get these elements as well so i did find the message overall very condescending very simplistic completely misplaced

uh and it was if anything it was such a disservice to the legend of a genius who i feel jordan peterson is so yeah that's my my thoughts on it i did see some people reacting saying look come on look jordan jordan peterson uh you know is a you know you get some people jordan peterson is racist

i i don't i don't know i've not seen him ever say anything racist i don't personally believe that he's racist i don't believe that um some people say oh my god he's far right i don't personally believe he's far right although people on the far right naturally may find some some meaning take meaning from his words but we take meaning from his words everybody takes meaning from his word to me i think the reason why jordan peterson is who he is today there's a number of reasons one the man is undeniably gifted by god for his expression and articulation

nothing i mean you watch that debate with uh susan blackmore and jordan peterson she is clearly mine like that you can clearly see her body language expressing she recognizes her inferiority in front of this guy i mean he he's just like a juggernaut to to debate with you could you could not i mean you could you just feel a person would feel so inferior just speaking being on at loggerheads with this person just because of the genius that he's gifted

so okay this is one reason sure this that but i don't think that's that's for people who appreciate that but the main reason that that he's so popular amongst people one is he's empowered people who have hit rock bottom he has empowered them that he's told them to make something out of their lives especially men who are um who feel so undervalued and this comes to the the next most important point him you see people like why and you're getting

you have andrew tate for example who's arguably people may say a walking meme but he's a genius marketing genius why is he so popular why is he so popular this there's a theme that is shared amongst these people like um jordan peterson andrew tate and some of these people there's a theme and that is that they have stood or they have argued vehemently that

in defense of or whether you want to say in defense but for for the importance of being a man now this you see don't under value these words we are in an age where men are increasingly being silenced and that that that is a catastrophe because ultimately whether forget the vocalism whether people like it or not ultimately men will be

just as a workforce will be the backbone of a society now the fact that they're 50 of the civil of of civilization a point aside but they are they will be the the people that are working you know doing all these kind of difficult jobs obviously they'll be doing the other jobs as well but i'm just saying this now to especially those that are lower down which are the majority of the people majority of the people are you know they don't have a voice so they're being silenced even further now this is why jordan peterson is so valuable to these people because he's

become a voice for what it means to be a man that you sh that they stand up for some meaning to be a man now this is and i think this is what people are missing the mark we are in an age where things are becoming so wishy-washy that way you get leaders stand up even if they'll say ridiculous things then like andrew tate he'll say the most absurd thing but it doesn't matter because he's standing up for something and he's exhibiting leadership qualities in an age where other people are not so there you go people flock around them they gravitate to them so these are the reasons and the final

part that why i cherish jordan peterson is that truly jordan peterson is the door stopper for modern militant atheism you know new age atheism met its march in jordan peterson and this is perhaps maybe not appreciated by many people but those who followed the scene the atheism scene um they know that i i followed it very closely i followed sam harry's i watched most of all you know we've got all of his or most of his things i had followed

christopher hitchens watched all of his materials richard dawkins dan you know dan dennett uh these four horsemen of atheism i'd really closely seen that movement rise from you know 2010 onwards that the figure the strength at which it came nothing could stand in the face of it and people you know what i'm just being honest people don't approve they don't acknowledge the genius of people like sam harris the guy is a formidable machine you know you you just truly haven't

you know it's it's like i guess well you know it's like a person saying oh well he's nothing what does he know the guy had it was he he was shredding people of faith that he was an unstoppable machine of he's he's nothing but a genius it's true i mean you have to give credit to to the man even if he is against faith and he gave in this day and age one of the toughest these people gave the toughest they maybe look maybe people weren't watching this scene closely so to them they don't realize it because they don't they

weren't following it but if you are following it these people ma they really you know they gave such a tough time to faith and the only kind of door stopper to that in the last three four years was jordan peterson we turned that around there was a copernican moment in our lifetime where faith all of a sudden is not embarrassed on the non-muslim front not to muslim muslims kind of had their faith and they we like a community within an insular community so people don't really you know they don't mix with with us

we're just within ourselves but on the greater platform within the west it's now not embarrassing to say you believe where it was but with the rise of of the in the last four five years only and it's interesting even in a a discussion where jordan peterson is asked that who is your has been your toughest uh adversary and he says i don't think of them like that but then he says well you know if i had to use that word he said i'd probably say sam harris because he says that the man is a genius and he truly is but you can see in that debate

it was like wrestlemania 6. when i was a kid it was like hulk hogan versus ultimate warrior it was like that so these these are the reasons why people celebrate these figures that said his message like i mentioned to muslims was completely just it was embarrassing as hell it was so patronizing and it was offensive if anything you know but it was what it was people say oh my god boycott jordan peterson boycott him boycott i'll grow up you know like look he's gonna say whatever he wants to say he's a grown man he was independent sure

you know most likely he was fed what to say and he was reading it and it was probably stemming from some agenda that was people say it's linked to ben shapiro and it's linked to the normalization kind of efforts between israel and the gulf states and the arab states and it may well have been as in at the very periphery of that so he's just being paid look you've got you know many muslims watch you here say something like this and because he's he's getting money from them he has to say so it is what it is and people say well but i would just say look you take the

good you leave the bad and we don't need to be as reactionary that's all cool um um right let's move on people alright what is oh right okay i'll take that off sorry um i that was uh something uh accidentally pressed that that's you know look don't slander or

i said this before there is this concept of satar in islam and i don't know man you know these things you know we it is truly something i guess it's maybe age as well like a person realizes that we're all so in you know our daily lives like just take your daily life many of us maybe not all of us there's moments that are so embarrassing but there's just a veil there's a satyr that really

from a perspective allah has has in our lives you know a little like everything it's so you could be so like a little thing like let's say from a person how they speak to let's say how a person speaks to romantically what kind of a [Laughter] you know um an embarrassment storm would that create if if these if a person just took your messages or your words and shared them

they sound i'm sure they sound embarrassing as hell person will be like yeah was that me they'd be like oh no but it's true isn't it like you see the but this is what it is we've become you know in the um in the court of public opinion we've become you know in the past in the olden days they would execute people have these public executions where like in medieval england and they would everybody well hang him hang him or you know chuck tomatoes and things and people went there and you think why are people gathering around to watch somebody have

the you know the guillotine or to watch somebody get huh you know hanged and to watch these things because it gives them this kind of joy that they feel there's a dark joy to it and this is all it is people want to watch people go on but it is a it is a disease within and there is this thing of satar so if you have an opportunity don't these things that you know somebody said about a certain like an old man sharing his

intimate images and these things are you know they're honestly there is a despicable state that a person has arrived at to do things like this that this is you know there isn't that you know yes that these people that could be your grandfather and you can say well my grandfather doesn't do that but that that's the age isn't it it could be sharing these things publicizing them laughing at a few moments of laughter and ridicule

at the honor of a person even if we disagree with them even if we don't like them even if we dislike them even if you hate them i'm saying i mean that's a problem within you why you really hate someone sure you you know you say well the person chats all this oh don't listen to them then everybody chats nonsense you think i'm not trying not we're all chatting nonsense so much of the time you know this this is it is what it is you say well so yeah don't get caught up in that man and i do feel you know

there is this thing that people there is a way there is a divine algorithm the people who immerse themselves in a life to get people you know that man you know this kind of that this person who takes a well for for his own fellow brother to fall into you know the proverb that they dig it for themselves and this there's a hadith it's weak but i feel it still its meaning is that those who set out to humiliate the privacy

of people that allah will humiliate them from the depths of their it says that in the inner depths of his own home allah will humiliate them i mean this inner meaning that a person who immerses themselves in that lifestyle to to try to to just take these cheap thrills i do feel that those who live by the sword die by the sword see that that's the the kind of bed they make and they lie in it hey let's move on

[Laughter] ah right you know what i'm thinking shall i i was going to speak about imam malik shall i speak a bit about imam yeah let's speak a bit about imam malik and then i'll share the link and uh show us an example right oh did i miss a super chat by the way um

zachary pacquiao zack oh appreciate how well read and articulate embarrassing me i wish i wish my mufti my super chat is sitting where's the super chat man let me go back superchat miracles are not logically inconsistent jesus could be a virgin birth since asexual reproduction exists why not believe in miracles then uh

okay we'll come back to uh we'll come back to that okay that's a interesting question um i'll just check if there's another nora shukran much love for the have you seen rr yet it's the first indian film i've seen that has gained popularity in the west wondering what your thoughts are about it i haven't seen it but i've seen the the clip of it i think it's on netflix now it's uh right so that that's fascinating the south indian industry uh south indian film industry seems to have taken over the the bollywood

industry so bollywood is really based in really more north india and it's the traditional kind of all the the you know salman and celebrities of the indian industry but in the last few years it's tragically it's it's just been god knows you know some may say it's it's poetic justice for the curse of how it operates and um in the beginning of kovid you had um what's his name sushant commit suicide

because of how the industry was treating him and and it's just these things they come they they shaker people i'm sure they commit many things in you know try just you know many kind of uh oppressive kind of tyrannical acts that people don't see and hear about every day but these things when you see a celebrity kill himself uh and that too like a like a celebrity that made his way into the hearts of millions of people it really shook and an entire um

you know diaz diaspora of of people that watch bollywood and but whatever the cause be that it's really declined in the last year that i mean these were people that would make every movie they released would have hundreds and hundreds of korors and akaror is what 10 million so they would have hundreds of crores they would easily make in revenue within the first week of release they'd gone down most of them have recently like in the last this year going been and i think late last year all been flopped like they won't even they they're barely making

they're barely breaking even with the amount of money they're putting in to make a movie and it's just been a disaster and what's shocking is what some people said well that's kovid and the new um [Music] um streaming uh video platforms that have arisen in india so they have in kovid you've got the netflix equivalents that have kind of risen there and so people are watching movies at home that's true but south indian movies when they came to north india they broke unprecedented records like this uh this rrr and this the the other what was what was it called pushpa pushpa

that's it and and that it broke records and it's just fascinating that wow okay so people are going is it i think it made 600 crore or something like this within it so and and they're bringing genuine content it's not just plagiarism it's not just crap acting it's it's where people are actually genuine actors and so wow it's it's it's interesting so now you're getting a lot of the bollywood stars going south and when collaborating wanting to star in their movies what goes around comes around so fun

and games are fun and games cello we we got distracted for a moment with bollywood it's the world we live in after all we should know what's going on in the world um yeah and you know it's a shame because um uh the the the you see the kind of i don't know the charm that bollywood had for let's say for many people from my generation it's like that the kind of the charm of shahrukh khan the kind of poetic script

that's written and enacted it's it's sometimes ott over the top but it's so it's like va you know that the the kind of the lines that they use the that the romance that they had the the kind of it's it's maybe overdone but that era is dead like the shahrukh khan era is dead like none like for in the last maybe decade there are no real films being made in that sense with that charm of let's say um you know or you know the great kind of dialogues that

uh were being said expressed by people like sharokhan and that were like overly charming and overly emotional and oh nobody does that anymore like the young actors don't do that and so it's all just it's it's all of the past now it's from that was all the the 2000s and the early to the early 2000s and and bollywood has just been riding that wave since like now nobody speaks like that anymore in bollywood they don't really do any of that charm and that poetry and that

it's yeah so all this stuff so yeah let's let's move on right um so a quick question on miracles saying look i've got a detailed video i've got many detailed videos on miracles you can watch them there was a question here by desi edits saying look about uh they could be a virgin birth

i've got a detailed video on the virgin birth so very briefly looking at it but look most muslims do feel that there was a virgin birth for jesus um this is a continuation of the the christian tradition yeah now because many christians most christians feel that there was a virgin birth now the quran now when you come to and some muslims felt there was no virgin birth and i

know some christians have also denied the virgin birth so so some muslim scholars denied that especially of recent times now when you look at the actual wording of the quran the quran actually stops short of saying there was a virgin birth but the the verses they one could say they imply one could say that i you see i wouldn't say that though i would say that you could infer there's a difference

so one is it is implying one is you are inferring so one can easily infer a virgin birth from the verses but the verses do not denote and state a virgin birth there is no verse in the quran that states that jesus was born without a father but sure one could infer from it so the way it's being said that one could infer ah so this happened without so they're referring to the verses verse where mary says oh but how can i have a child where i've not been touched that we have not consummated you know i've not

uh engaged in sexual intimacy so and and the reply is that whatever the lord has decreed shall be now here the people are assuming that oh and then she got pregnant so they're assuming she got pregnant straight away because why are they assuming that because there is a christian tradition telling them that not the quran but the christian tradition telling them that so this same uh verse happens in two other places one is with um let's say the wife of abraham where

she is now uh she assumes she is barren and she says well how can i have a child she's given the glad tidings she will have a child she says how can i have a cloud child i'm a barren old woman and and she is told well that is what the lord decrees shall be and then she has a child but nobody says she had a child miraculously they all say well no abraham was involved and another verse where um uh you have um the wife of uh zakaria

so um she is under the assumption that she's barren not because of old age but just that she is incapable of being pregnant so here that she they receive revelation and they are told that whatever the lord should decrees shall be and you shall have a child and then she has a child she has john or yahya um john the baptist so now nobody says that yahya was born miraculously so if it was just by reading these verses you would assume but nobody says that because they think well oh

naturally there's a husband in the scene so with mary now they're not sure of her husband but most people most christians not most all christians pretty much agree that mary had a husband that you know she she had a husband which is joseph the carpenter um so it's not that uh it's not that mary didn't have a husband but he's because the quran doesn't mention him so the understanding is that well

here she's being told this good news and then she has a child and the christians have told us it was a virgin birth so we're going to go with it's a virgin birth and that's fine you know if people want to go with that i'm not saying they they can't go with that most muslims believe that most muslims believe that and like i said most christians believe that some muslims believe that no these verses don't actually what they're saying is that yes she's saying this because she was betrothed to joseph but he was refraining from sexual intimacy so she says how can i have a child because he doesn't seem interested

in sexual intimacy and then she goes on to have a child so that's that view okay it look it doesn't really make a difference if to you look jesus being a prophet of god is nothing to do with him having a virgin birth so moses was a prophet of god he didn't it's not he didn't have to you don't have to have a virgin birth like if you had a father that doesn't negate you being a prophet the greatest prophet muhammad was not born from a virgin birth he is the greatest of all prophets so

you a virgin birth has no bearing on it's not a qualifier to be a prophet so it's just it's something if if it's very important for you and you feel that look this is important for me then more power to you believe in it there's nothing nobody's stopping you from believing in it if you feel that no that look well because if you well if you feel that look i don't care what science says i don't care of our discovery of the world because mammals cannot reproduce

asexually the other thing is science dna teaches us that you see you need a y chromosome the women do not carry a y chromosome so the question of this edit saying sexual asexual reproduction is not a mammalian phenomenon okay so what you're talking about is called parthenogenesis partner genesis it does occur in reptiles in certain lizards and they've argued maybe in certain birds and obviously the question is are birds very closely you know related to reptiles i mean because they're both

practically descendants of dinosaurs right so mammals are different okay so mammals cannot reproduce asexually parthenogenesis does not occur and then to reproduce let's say you said they've reproduced then they would reproduce using their own dna so a female could only reproduce the x chromosome let's say we go with this where does she get the y chromosome from females don't carry a y chromosome so only men carry a y chromosome so where do you get that from

so scientifically you can't you see if you so if you feel that look fine i don't care i don't need a scientific holistic coherence to me it's fine allah miraculously put a y chromosome in in mary miraculously now the question is well whose data whose dna was in the y chromosome so because it has to be a man it has to be of a lineage he has to be of some descent because so let's just say allah created an artificial

y chromosome of a semitic person who lived in of that people of bani israel because obviously otherwise jesus is going to look totally different he's got to be you know he's got to have the same genetic makeup of his people otherwise if allah put chinese let's say you know or a different haplogroup in him or let's say sub-saharan hablar group or caucasian haplogroup then he's going to obviously look entirely different to his people so so he has to be of his people so okay fine so allah creates in that moment a y chromosome

with the genetic dna haplogroup of his people but it's artificial and then allah places it within mary and then creates a baby says tj i believe in that fine you know that's because you say well i don't need science to explain it to me oh sorry i don't not that i don't need science to explain the problem is science already explains how this happens so you're saying well i don't care what science says that this can't happen because it doesn't matter for me that's fine the only the only challenge for that is if you were to just

have a debate on faith with someone your debate scientifically could not last even a few minutes it doesn't last like your thing falls apart it's like somebody arguing with you that there's a giant teapot in the sky and you say well and say well i just believe in the giant teapot i said well but there is no giant but but there is you see scientifically it's like let's say you are let's say you debated a hindu who said to you that god became uh you know manifested as an avatar as

hanuman the monkey god and he's god why do you find that absurd what's wrong with that why do you think that argument is absurd that god manifest became uh you see hanuman is the monkey god is oh why do you find the story of shiva comes back and cuts off ganesh's head and then replaces him with an elephant's head and now ganesh the son of shiva and parvati is now the the the god of strength why can't god do that god is

all-powerful why can't god do it so when a hindu let's say debates that with you and you you say well that doesn't make any sense he says well it does because god is all-powerful he can do what he wants so by the way hindus actually believe in for many people don't know this in one supreme court they believe in brahma so these are just avatars they're not actually but they they're kind of gods in their own right they've been given these powers but ultimately it says brahma so they say well god's made this god's all-powerful so why can't you accept it so you say well but it doesn't make any sense ah so now you're appealing to

reason you see now when you appeal to reason the problem is then you get stuck in these things because then when you go against reason you see but then you say oh but now i don't want to play the game of ruth [Music] not even nicer not nice this one so you see at that stage you say now i don't want to play this game now i want to just say because god is all powerful say but yesterday you know yesterday when we're debating with the hindu you're playing this game

so this is the problem this is where people get stuck they get stuck on when they're debating with other people they want to use so if you're somebody who doesn't live like let's say you say true hinduism could be right but i just don't believe it's right because i believe in this but you're right there's no reason that i can say like not the voice of reason cannot disprove hinduism it's just that the quran has told me that no other so my belief is not rational it's not based on reason it's just

confessional like the quran told me that don't believe in anything else therefore i don't believe in anything else the quran said to me they that's not right therefore it's not right i can't give you any reasons why it's not right i don't know any reasons because i can't know because they this isn't a reason-based argument then in that case it's fine you can believe these miracles could have happened like this then and they could be like that and it could be that allah is doing these things and it could be for the hindu that for them not for us but for the hindu that god is is all-powerful that he's made

uh other little gods that do things and and it could be for christians that god has made three manifestations the trinity because god is all-powerful he can do what he wants you see so he said well but god can't you see you say but god can't become god the son you say but he can because he's all powerful he said but he told us in the quran that he can't but they'll say but he told us in the bible that he can so this argument of it doesn't go very fast so then you just can never as long as you're somebody that feels look faith is never like i'm not interested in any kind of

discussion oh sorry not discussion but any kind of uh dialogical discourse proving faith then it's fine then you can believe however then i think these people are absolutely safe they are bulletproof safe okay but for those people who say that you know what we want to we are prepared to defend faith using the voice of reason because to us faith is nested in reason so to those people this journey is different

so to them everything in islam allah is the ultimate who gives us the voice of reason therefore nothing allah tells us can ever go against reason this is the teaching of people like the great maliki legend ibn rosh and many islamic scholars and thinkers have thought like this that nothing that the voice because allah has given us the voice of reason nothing that he tells us or reveals to us can ever be against the voice of reason like you can never contradict sure there can be things you don't understand but it can never be that you understand something and then so now saying how babies are born we know how

babies are born it's not a mystery how babies are born so sure you could say look consciousness we don't know how consciousness works we don't know how multiverse works we don't know how the raid works but how babies are born is not the rape you know how we were born you you don't say well you were born as a mystery your mom and dad obviously got together and you were born so babies being born is not a mystery so to say well we know how babies are born but this particular baby was born

not how we know how babies are born now that is not a deep that cannot work in this category of people who want to who believe that faith is always rested in nested in reason so to them this is well so what they can do okay so what this what some people can do in the middle there can be a camp in the middle that say look we're kind of in both camps so we believe faith is nested in reason except when we get stuck then we're just going to say except on this case but that you see

it's that's exactly it sounds like that then whenever you get stuck you say well okay this k on this time we're not we're not going to we're not going to explain the rules don't apply on this case but they apply on all the others which we can explain so that this is it look it's your pick i feel it's absolutely fine if you say i'm if a person believes that there's miraculous virgin birds it's absolutely fine if a person if they want to believe that's fine that's their choice it's their faith if a person believes up until now there's virgin births happening

fine does it bother but does it bother you if a person said look i believe there's 10 people i know who are in such and such village they were born of virgin births tiga they may let's say for for their sake okay and now to this category of people no allah says that if you want to understand creation

go through the earth and watch observe nature then you will learn how creation began science is an observation of your environment so allah has told us to do that in the quran so this camp of people need things to always that they want to test they they they have in their iman it never fails i will take it to the nth degree and islam will stand the test of time see this category of people the people in the middle are this category of people are not interested in testing islam at all that's fine they don't need to test islam they this category in the middle are interested in testing but sometimes they

get intimidated so they on those occasions say oh don't talk about it here but talk about it here that's fine but this category of people their iman is firmly nested in the voice of reason and the voice of reason they have tested it time and time again and islam has always stood the test of time

see allah it's up to you you take take your pick nobody's going to tell you if anybody tells you you can't believe this then i think that to me that's silly you can believe whatever you want believe whichever one all of these are ulama of islam so so that yeah so there's a

whether one believes jesus had a father or not does not interfere with one story exactly so it's no big deal these things look put it like this every single other prophet that you're going to speak about had a mom and dad you're going to accept that it doesn't change the mission in islam jesus's mission was not that oh he was born without a dad that's not jesus's mission so his mission stayed exactly the same so his prophethood was not based on him on his birth his prophethood was based on his

prophethood so yeah so anyway that's that discussion but like i said people can nest it you see this group of people who believe in a virgin birth they nest it in this verse of the quran they say mariam alaihissalam is saying how can i have a child and william sasni bashar and then she has a child afterwards because allah says that you know such is the decree of god so they infer that well it's clear allah doesn't say she you know sure he doesn't say but

here there's an inference so they use this verse and that's fine people who say that know that this just like everybody else uh we know how babies are born it takes two people they use these verses of the quran that allah says we created you as in all of you from one male and one female so they say well jesus is no exception they also use the verse of the quran that allah says that anna's

how can god they ascribe a son unto god how can god have a son when he did not have a female partner why is allah saying this because allah is explaining that you see because for there to be a son he then needs to be a female there needs to be two four there because allah is saying in the quran this is a verse of the quran how could he have a son

and he did not have a female consort that surely he would need that to have the son now you can say well allah is all-powerful but that's allah is explaining he's all-powerful but he doesn't work that way he creates means so he did not create a female console how did he have a son so if allah is saying this for himself in the quran that look how can they say he had a son and he didn't have a female partner then then it's more makes absolute sense that

g every every human on earth was born from a male and female that's why allah is giving that example so these people who use that evidence they they use this verse these people use this verse they both using the quran okay now you may say oh but that verse is not talking about this sure you know it's talking generally and these people will say yeah but that verse is it's it's not saying anyway just as the other verses of abraham and zechariah the the wives are also given glad tidings and they have a son nobody says they miraculously understand as in

nobody says they through a virgin or non uh you know they asexually had a son nobody says that so why the difference so these are the answers to both sides now you choose what you may allah see faith is a personal journey people it's a personal journey if you feel your faith is something that only makes sense if you feel your faith is can must be dictated to you by others or

micromanaged then that's a very poor state of iman to be in whatever you believe i'm not saying you need to believe this or believe that anything whatever you believe but it is your journey live it embrace it enjoy it taste it live it you know zindagi ligia

that's the thing right let's move on people um um right so people saying very quickly just an appendage to what i just said some people saying what do you say about the verse where adam that the similitude of adam of jesus is like unto adam say that in the math

it's a beautiful verse it's one of my most you know honestly i totally love that verse in the quran because in that verse they are asking about the you see the people were trying to say that jesus didn't have a dad but the quran you see because the quran it's very important for the muslims that they that they had that that they had that bond with the christians it was very important because muslims right to the north the entire because you had the sassanids who were not

really relating to the arabs um and you had the the byzantines who were christians who had many christian arabs and then in the south you had the axamite kingdoms who were christian arabs and you so really you just had hijaz in the middle and they didn't identify with the sassanid zoroastrians so really the important thing was the people of the book that allah says in the quran

let's make let's come to a middle ground let's let's not worry about our differences let's focus on the what we have in common this is what the quran says what the prophet did in madina the covenant of madina is he got the jews and the christians together and he said the the ending of it which is in sahih bukhari and in the the prophet we the jews the christians the believers muslims we are one let's momentarily forget our differences so here when they are asking about this the verse it's just amazing this is the miracle of the quran

the verse says oh jesus because it's saying he doesn't have a dad the verse never said he doesn't have a dad the first says oh he is like adam he's from dust allah said he was [Laughter] beautiful breathtaking because in this verse everybody just went ah okay and they went with whatever story they heard see because many people had the story that adam didn't have a mum and dad

so they went with that but then one would say but you see because if you look at this verse what is it actually saying look that jesus is like adam but i thought jesus had a mom say yeah but so that means adam had a mom say oh no no no we're just talking about the dad he said but but the verse is saying he's like adam say oh yeah but that's talking just about the dad say oh but allah says he's from dust so ah so jesus was just made out of oh no no jesus was made out of just he was

given birth to oh so that means adam was also given birth to say no to but he was made that dust he said but he wasn't made but allah said so he wasn't even made out of dust he was just made to be say yeah oh no but he was made out of dust oh no but he had a mum so he had him a no oh he was just told b and he was no so he was just told being he was yeah but i thought he was made out of dust oh no he was made out of dust first

oh so he wasn't just said be any worse it's a beautiful verse it shows that honestly this is the quran it speaks so miraculously to you because in that verse lay all your answers because the day you understand that because you see this was left for people of all time in that day and age those people who took the christian things said ah see well jesus adam didn't have a dad

jesus didn't have a dad some people say well but you know jesus had a mom so did adam have a mom and and then you go forward and people say well evolution evolution took place obviously clearly it's in our dna you can't so you say well well here allah did say it's like adam

you see well if he was given birth to then he was given birth to it's either the beauty of the quran it unlocks gems for you you know for the unforeseeable future it's wow the legacy honestly and it's amazing you see the other verse of the quran the speaking about

from clay from this is what we created in sun from what did they say in the tafseer of that they say it's insane is who created insane from say adam what does the next verse say who then we placed him that we placed him as a sperm in in unsettled which is the womb

so here people get stuck again say up uh okay this no this is an adam see but i thought the other verse was adam oh no no the verse before we created insane from an extract of this some kind of gooey extract from of of clay of dust okay but then we made him uh a drop of sperm to be fertilized in in a womb he said not yet that is adam but this is is a different person

see but it says but we made him it doesn't say we made the next person he says then we placed him is the hymn not going back to the first person yeah but in this case it's so here people got stuck so some people said yeah well maybe allah created adam seed as well elaborating oh uh okay so this is adam and this one is okay some said it's so maybe allah created an artificial womb in which he placed this this is what some scholars said that they said well when allah created adam out of clay

maybe he made like an artificial womb and placed him in that so allah created him out of clay but then made him into a drop of sperm and put him in an artificial womb and then he said tikka but but there were already worms around so so it depends look this is the beauty whichever way you go but it comes back to that same thing do you want to go confessionally do you want to go rationally so whichever way you go it's your choice it's your faith let's move on

right now where are we all right i've got a i want to share some um on imam malik actually but i'm thinking what what time is it you know what let's let's leave this for i want to do this but there's so much i want to recover it's going to take so long what i'll do is i'll just share the la people want to jump on live and then we'll wrap this up um we ended up discussing but why i

guess it's good you know we we spoke about some very fascinating topics it's always good to um to kind of to go over stuff and i think the most important thing is to understand that faith is a personal journey yeah and i do feel that you see i don't think

the heart of faith is reason i don't think that i used to think it was i've realized the heart of faith the the kind of kernel the the inner the nectar of iman

is is the sacred and with it is mysterium tremendous this is the at the heart of faith and it's not necessary that reason will get you there in fact reason does not get you to mysterium tremendous but what reason will do is it will guide you by telling you what is not that

and then there will come a point where reason will be suspended and beyond that is mysterium tremendous but when you so that's for islam at its heart is the holy the sacred tremendous that which that the divine mystery that terrifies in in terrifies in its sense here doesn't mean like terror

it's more almost that which shakes you jalla yet it captivates you this is it takes you up water allah you know this this whole thing that you the transit it's like it takes your soul with it that is ultimately what the faith is about

so people arrive at that through they arrive at that usually not through reason necessarily but through an experience but many people may not do that and islam so this is iman but then you have islam which is the practice which is the living tradition which is the now this has things with it it has detail it has

stories of this is what happened it has narratives it has so here you are navigating through the world with people so here the voice of reason is what helps you navigate through the world bypassing other people allowing you to understand these greater narratives how they are anchored what is and there's nothing wrong with believing things that are

counter reason or as in even irrational let's let's let's go with irrational i would say there's nothing wrong in if if what that narrative does is simply empowers and boosts your devotional aspect of the faith so in that case that narrative is not to be confused with informational historicity or informational data it is rather to be understood

and navigated through as one does with art as it were that it is to evoke it is wordless seamless formless structureless it evokes an experience within you an emotion that connects you with that that profundity that mysterious tremendous that sacred that holy that is then that is absolutely you are locked in that is perfect the it doesn't

matter that this is irrational illogical it is because it is not to be misunderstood as data that is the problem when you start conflating these categories then one needs to clear it up clear it up using the voice of reason no i mean i don't know how much of that is making sense to you when i'm saying that perhaps it is but i hope

yeah that if we can approach religio scripture in a relationship that is akin somewhat as it were to a to a person that stands or to a person that

interprets that interprets art with its overwhelming profound relationship that they have to it it's not this is what um karen armstrong in her book the art of scripture argues as well that she says that people misunderstood scripture that they think scripture the relationship to it is the relationship of a student to a textbook

but it ought to be the relationship it ought to be more viewed as an art as it is a textbook so it then evokes this this experience this devotion so i would 100 that that's what i would that's what i would guide people to to understanding scripture in that dynamic so they in that sense it doesn't matter you don't need to be you see you don't you don't need to be

trying to tie things together so it all depends on on how you are a pro almost the cap you're wearing to approach something the glasses the lens by which you are viewing something or yeah or navigating through i guess it's not just lens because it's it's almost like the you are navigating through it's more than just seeing it's hearing it's experiencing it's sensing perception so yeah that's what i would say

okay let's move on um right i don't know if i missed any super chats i can check um oh there are some super chats i miss some

um this is edx super chat i get that but our miracles logically impossible i'll let you find the answer to that i don't know what do you think you've heard what i've said you can hear what other people have to say you can i don't even know if i answered that question directly but i'll let you figure it out because what what is faith if it's not a journey so if you i don't know how old this person that how old you are asking me this

but if you're young if 20 years from today your faith is exactly how it was 20 years ago and that's 20 years of your life wasted unfortunately because it is a journey that means you stood exactly where you were so walk the path let it unfold you tell me in the future guide us

i mean much love for the super chat what are your thoughts on muhammad abdul yeah i've got a video where i speak about muhammad abdul so you can check that yes of course anybody who it's very much you see the only difference i feel that i i really res i respect the traditions of reason unquestionably but i find myself in recent times

compelled more so by the path of consciousness and i find myself more drawn to the mystery so it's so yeah and i feel that's something that i mean i don't know where i am in what stage of my life okay i don't mean by my age but i don't know to what age i will live

so i don't know where i am in the part in the chapters of my life am i just halfway am i you know seventy percent eighty percent ninety percent god forbid am i almost there already to the end am i only like 40 of the way i don't know so but i am so glad i'm so indebted to god that i found this i found the path of consciousness and

mystery that this like i came i'm i mean i'm just you know taking my baby steps in trying to understand mysterium tremendous but i feel that many of the ulama of reason unfortunately many of them i feel their story ended before they reach that part of the journey and this is why i'm i'm so you know grateful

that i feel wow like i i'm just this is priceless and i feel people like muhammad abdul and um all these other people who did champion the voice of reason but they their story finished before it could get to mysterium tremendous and i feel that is actually greater than the voice of reason so but the but the thing is it can't be explained except by like it's i mean it can't truly be explained but it could be guided by the voice of reason

so yes that's where i you know where i speak where i watch olama who champion the voice of reason the only thing is they just they're not on this they're not on the path of consciousness and sure that's you know i'm not knocking them in the sense that i'm not saying what they're doing isn't priceless it is but to me it's like ah okay you know this this what i feel is unlocking on this path is is of a different caliber altogether it's just something it's a different

paradigm it's not see this leaves reason way behind this is you know the this is is through ex it's just something that must be tasted but yeah let's go to taking some guests uh what's the uh i mean much love for the superstar is there any reason to accept the quran as truth right so you know i don't even know uh i don't even know how what did this how can i i can't answer that in just is

there any reason to accept the quran as truth wow what does reason mean what does accept mean what does truth mean and you know that's like bloody 45 minutes on each one of them so i'm sorry i can't do this question any justice by is there any reason to accept the quran as truth what does that even mean like what do you mean by that because i'm sure you could answer that with um so i don't even know what you what you say any reason like what like belief

to reason faith it's a reason reason itself is a reason acceptance is of reason consciousness is a reason i don't know what what does that even mean so uh truth okay correlation truth what is truth what coral that which correlates with reality are we going with that definition of truth are we going with true justified belief as as a definition of truth are we going with what definition of truth are we taking when we're saying this um i don't see

wow so yeah you can understand the right okay let's move on right shukran azerati much love for the super chat yard i'm not answering uh who's this writing in all these capital letters uh salam from morocco

all right that one do we much love much love that one a blessed place indeed i did go i visited that one um i visited i think i went to that one twice actually i brought the book i was looking for that book everywhere you know the uh the ayaro of al-wazani i looked for everywhere man at that time now i'm sure mo many places have it nobody had it and i found it in a bookstore in tatwa allah

seek and ye shall find it's epic by the way that book is it's it's it's just full of if you love fatawa like just wild for tawa it's just wonderful it's a it's a sequel to uh you know but then several hundreds of years later recently by syria wasani and wow it is it's something you know it has some amazing discussions in it um

sure let's move on people right um let me right so sorry i just thought where's my damn where are my headphones um yeah did i can't seem to find my earpods anyway one second let me crap i don't know if these will be charged actually

i hope so up let's go with this okay i gotta see if this is if this ain't charged then we've got an issue um come on oh god you know honestly the bluetooth there is technology harm

you know what it is we have all these things but let's see connecting oh damn i got a disc oh it's connected all right oh i think we've got alright people we are in luck i like it let me just go into settings and just make sure that the audio uh speaker right let me just test all right we are in luck i like it i like it it says we've got a bit of percentage here so we oh look at that i picked this and i find the earpods earpods well we're good to go now anyway so let me

bring on some some guests who whoever got here we've got who have we got we've got ali alright how are you i'm good i'm good how are you keeping aha yeah what's going on yeah nothing just uh last day off before work so just you know i was lucky enough to catch your show usually it's uh pre-recorded parts that i'm listening to just on my drives here and there but um it's good to catch you live again likewise

i don't know if i tuned in when you were speaking about the uh islam and adam alayhi salampar i don't know if you had a chance to speak about uh the passing of muhammad al-farif from the uh institute yes no i didn't but what we did speak about today was the topic of death at the beginning because uh two people that had come to mind whose mothers had passed away one was professor dr uh mati sajid and the other was a uh one of the patreon uh members

so we'd spoken about the topic of loss and tragedy so we did speak about that the which is very relevant the same topic and you're right muhammad sharif you know allah bless his afterlife uh it came as a a true surprise i mean i did not know him personally as in i knew of him and we had um mutual friends but i'd never been in touch with him directly and i was shocked really because from what i'm aware he wasn't really of any you know old age so as it were and and it was just apparently it's a

sudden death it's it's not you know just one day was you just died it wasn't you know there was no kind of underlying health issues or it wasn't and so it's just shocking so yeah um may allah firstly bless his afterlife secondly may allah grant his family ease i don't know if he has i assume he has children may allah make things easy for them yeah i believe he heard the ps4 and yeah i was i was listening to uh abuelis allah who was speaking about it and yeah yeah three year old he's seven yeah his three-year-old and his seven-year-old were with him when uh

when how did he die what happened was it a heart attack yeah so they said that he took the kids oh this is from what abuelisa uh said and it's online as well for anybody who wants to catch it um but the story that i got was that he uh he prayed maghrib and then he collapsed during the salah and it was a heart attack survived for a little bit in hospital and then eventually a day or so later passed on but his children from what i understand were with him at the uh at the masjid when it happened so i mean he was just he was just in the masjid no there was no

like there was nothing no kind of build up to them no from from what i understand no wow yes you know it really just shows us the kind of fleeting transient the impermanence of this of this illusion isn't it this illusory realm wow when we think about it it's something man that it's such a powerful illusion though yeah in this this world it's so um and it makes you think that everyone has

plans that will inevitably exceed their life right and the more the day that each and every single one of us will return to allah we're going to wake up that morning and have plans for that evening that you know we'll never get around to so inevitably all of us expect more from life than we're actually going to be given right so yeah it's it's just just wow man honestly there's something i think this is where some of the mystics speak i was actually um reading about so you had this mystic in islam

uh ibn sabahin and he's a um he's he's just slightly after ibn arabi and he's um you have uh he is um [Music] i i believe the student of ibn arabi i believe he meets him but the but he's from around he's also from atlanta but he travels and and he but he's this mystic that people have criticized others but he he has this concept of uh where he's speaking i suppose one may say uh similar to ibn arabi about what maybe not

but he has this but what he's saying is he says he he would have this saying that there is just allah not in the sense see people think they take this to mean well oh well here's a bottle of water is this bottle of water god then that's you see but that's not what well

ultimately everything is illusory and the only real permanence is but not just not just everybody on it is will perish at some point but is fan as this is the fair alias the active participle as in this it is right now happening they are in a state of forner that they are perished that they're not really they're transient they're not

they're not really are they even there one may ask i mean we're here obviously i'm not saying this is but from a perspective it's an illusion so from that perspective that you think when you place it let's say a person juxtaposes creation with god then creation is but just an illusion yeah and real existence is just god our existence doesn't even really count i mean what is our existence in in relation and in that way i guess if anything it reminds us of god

yeah that just reminds us that everything is passing everything is you know but yeah yeah salam and it is scary because i i would see posts every now and then by muhammad sharif yes and he was just mainly they were just positive kind of encouraging posts yeah they weren't they were just you know the kind of mentorship uh you know they were they were kind of mentoring posts so they were meant mentoring people i guess and that giving that um that that kind of guidance to people but yeah

yes um bless our lives allow us to leave a legacy this is this is what matters yeah and i think that was the one thing that i kind of i mean on a more less gruesome and less uh you know down kind of note the the one thing that i kind of took away from it all was to be better in our private lives than we are in our public lives right i feel like a lot of the times you know it it's almost like what shakespeare said and i'm probably misrepresenting the quote but something like you know each of us gets on stage and we act a certain part and then we we

disappear behind backstage right so each of us i feel like i feel like when we're given a certain role we almost fake it till we make it right so you get a new job everybody is winging it yeah yeah but that but that but that is the game that is the path the path is you know it's you take a step and the path is unfolding like are we walking or is the earth rotating or is it both you know are both happening it's it's the process isn't it it's the process uh yeah but but there's a there's a there is a beauty in that as well a poetic

kind of beauty yeah exactly um one thing i wanted to ask you and i've you know had this discussion a little bit in the last couple weeks um in in terms of education when it comes and i don't know what the situation is like in uh in the uk but here in canada the the muslim community has sort of risen against the public uh domain of education right so a lot of the newer generation of muslims who are having children and children are starting to go to school are turning away from the public sector of education and

offering yeah opting a lot towards homeschooling um there's a huge sense yeah huge uprising of students who are just being homeschooled and just second to that islamic school um but i mean you know what's your take on all that because i know for me anyone that i've spoken to so far about it it comes with a very strong bias right so you know family members of mine who do homeschool will say well you know islamic schools the fees are ridiculous and public schools not an option because they're teaching you know xyz thing that we don't agree

with so homeschooling is the only one and then talk to people who are in islamic school or teachers in islamic school and of course their biases towards islamic school right and for me like i look at it from my own experience i went to public school you know after finishing school went to the madrasa full time for a year to do my fifth then went back to university and maintained uh kind of a part-time course with the with the local madrasa there so it's been kind of for me it's been a you know a foot in each each ship if you will right kind of bringing both both

things separately but together um what's your take on on all of the uh on on the idea of providing that education for your children in which direction the community should go towards yeah i mean i don't know about community going towards i think look people you know they what they feel it's their lives their choices and their mistakes to make as well yeah i think everybody has to if i was to share some words my thoughts on it as in on the hmm

because i know you spent some time in education as well i mean i i was well into education i taught in a secondary school for about uh probably about what maybe about six seven years or something six years i taught in a college for about i think two years i had uh i qualified as a teacher this is going back in the mid late 2000s i did a masters in education i i did i had that kind of stuff but i was never uh impressed with that world

uh i just um you know it was what it was and i ended up doing those things and and finding myself in it and to be honest i i'm so glad i left it i was like this is uh you know this i mean i get to be fair not to take a dig at teachers i'm sure they they do wonderful jobs and yeah and you know great people but it wasn't a world for me man there's too much so much bureaucracy in it so much i'm a bit of a free spirit i think um but yeah so and i was also an examiner for about four years for in in the uk gcse re

papers i was an examiner for that for about four years this is why i could you know the students in my class uh in secondary school i i like i because i had so i was so familiar with the how re exams work with the boards even though i was with the particular board although i did actually participate with two boards during my as an examiner i knew so well like i could it didn't matter who you were i if okay obviously i wanted to because i had to because uh it didn't matter who you were how well how clever intelligent you were

i could ensure that you will pass the exam it doesn't matter like i i i had formulas that it doesn't matter whether you know anything i would ensure like you will this is why all my students even the bottom sets all get gcc's in in re because i in islamic studies because i just knew how because i knew it so well and i could figure out how this is how you hack the system so i would be like okay it doesn't matter what the question is this is a guaranteed c if not b this is how you're gonna do it you could not even know zero about this topic and i could teach you and i did it and this is why except the

absence so they would have five sets the bottom set was special needs so not okay not them because they don't really sit the exams and stuff but the bottom set above that so you had like set one two three four four which would be an absolute failing set every single person from top set to that set with the exception of one pupil who didn't really do what i said but if everybody else got a c or above and i knew how to do it so this is why obviously this so the schools who did not like me for my let's say non-institutionalized views obviously were kind of always in between a rock and a hard place because they

always felt that damn but how does he how does he get all these people to pass so so the so obviously grades mean good things for for schools and institutions yep but it's all fake man this whole thing is an illusion so but coming to this this point that look um i would say depends what you want out of it so where your kids are going should your kids go to a um should they go to a private school by private you mean sorry by private you mean an islamic school obviously normal private school is really expensive in the uk

so most people they won't send their children to private school unless they you know private school here in the uk i'm assuming per year costs something like i think it costs something like between 15 to 18 000 pounds per year per child so that's a lot of money so i'm assuming that's about like 20 grand in dollars uh about so per child per year so that's like that's mostly not gonna happen so if what we're discussing here is between homeschooling between islamic schools which don't cost as much or some might even be free

and between regular schools so i would say well it depends what they want out of it and what they're trying to do um personally i would say if this is my thoughts yeah we totally you know it doesn't mean anything just you know as the ulum i would say throw them against the wall and ignore them um it's if the school was a good school that your child could go to like in the sense first of all they're going to be safe okay i see to me

school education you see this is weird because i i have a bunch of degrees and i have a bunch of stuff like this but institutionalized education means nothing like i think it did not teach me the things i learned were things i wanted to learn and i would have sure so some of them were just so the master was useless the degrees okay the educational degree whatever but the psychology degree i was interested in psychology so i was learning psychology before i embarked on a degree i was actually doing this degree material stuff i bought books and started reading them then i thought well why don't i

just do a degree since i'm reading them anyway right but it's there's a quote from mark twain that school schooling was by a brief interruption to my education that so it's you see so to me the most important thing is that kids feel safe because i think especially secondary schools there is so much bullying yeah and there is so much nastiness that takes place to me that is the most important thing i i couldn't give like okay sure i i could care i do care

about results because i recognized as a system and sure i want them to be somewhat privileged in this system so i don't want them to be at a loss i would rather given the spectrum that they have greater odds in than other people than their counterparts they're more sex you know it's a competitive world i get that so but the first and foremost are the kids safe do they feel safe sorry do they feel safe that's so if the k if the the answer to that is no then every other then an islamic school is definitely safer than a regular school

so islamic schools are usually very safe okay they from a safety perspective the kid feels safe compared to many normal schools so if in the normal school the child feels safe like this normal school has a great you know the anti-bullying policy zero tolerance that you know there's a great positive atmosphere when you visit it there's a lot of support from the staff i would say that that personally that would score above islamic schools that i've seen here in the uk right and it would score above homeschooling because if the child is safe then they def then them being around

their peers is always much more productive for the greater world because unless you want your child to be sheltered for the rest of their lives and that that option definitely outweighs then the other option yeah now the other thing is well okay education as well then obviously comes into it what's the caliber of education because as a homeschooling how much how dedicated are you to the cause can you uh will you always be there consistent you must be can you provide the breadth of um of the of the curriculum of the

experience of the knowledge could you wake up every day will you be on time will you be will you be strict will you i mean i i think it would kill i mean if i had to i could never homeschool that it'd be mine i'll just i'll just tell the kids ah don't worry about it we'll meet tomorrow oh you got the day off you'll figure it out in life enjoy the mystery i'd be like you know it doesn't so i could never do it okay so that's not gonna happen um this keeps uh dropping the volume on this so i don't know whether it's adjusting for other people right so okay so that's that islamic thing sure i would think

that you'd have a better breadth of education being delivered than homeschooling but it's still a very sheltered experience so the problem with islamic schooling is sure they they make you pass all the exams because it's very disciplinarian there isn't much kind of messing about there's smaller classes and they teach you the formula of how to pass yeah teaching kids you know if you know how to make kids pass it's not difficult it's like i said i mean uh as an examiner i i would ensure every

kid would pass it's just by that i i didn't have this doesn't mean for anybody watching that i had the answers i didn't have the answers i didn't because i was i was an re examiner but the kids were doing islamic studies so as a re-examiner i had to cover things like christianity more often islam was very rare that i covered islam in the re exams that was for the nationwide i used to mark exam papers but that was for christianity but it was the paper that the board was the same so once you understood that and you assessed how this works it's

very it's very easy to take away a formula of how to and just put together a simple structure and saying well okay doesn't matter what it is i'm gonna get you a minimum c right you follow these steps you can't fail it's bulletproof and so that's what the you know in these islamic schools same thing like people know how to make you pass they'll make you pass you'll get all the grades right you will have a somewhat sheltered experience of of the greater world so that's okay so people some people say well they don't mind that for their kids they want

then it's what are you you see what what it comes back to your objectives so if that's what you want like if you say my greatest aim is i just want my kids to get some i want them to get jesus let's say results and i want them to by the end of it know so many duas and uh know how to praise salah and know how to let's say uh stories uh from the quran and i want them to know certain like they don't you know islamic schools they don't know so much but they have a certain it's like a low level

but almost yeah like they have some they have like an islamic um feel to to it like they have they have this obviously this ethos where they'll always mention islamic staff names of sahaba so your child will come out knowing those things most likely that's uh so sure if that's what you want then sure do it you know that that's what will happen that will happen if you want your child go in the and learn some to ours and know certain things then they will come out doing that but um to be honest

you could you know if that's so passionate about that you see you have to weigh up what you want free from your child your child knowing some duas and you know i don't i don't know if that really outweighs yeah surely you can teach your child to ours you know your child learning a bunch learning like let's say 10 hours isn't something so incredibly fascinating like every anybody can do it it's not actually it's it's i mean it's literally children do it every day yeah so and the kids that come out of islamic school they're not

like i don't know like sometimes sometimes some people think if i put my kid in something islamic they're going to come out pious like piety is not information no exactly piety is a behavior like how a person behaves sure maybe your kid might come out pious but most kids that go to islamics i taught in an islamic school for about two of the two of those years of my teaching years i taught in an islamic school most kids there got up to what most kids got up to yeah you know so kids smoked weed they

smoked cigarettes they had girlfriends they watched porn they did whatever obviously they were doing this in front of you as a teacher but you knew this was going on by what was going on between kids like yes so this kid got caught with this on his phone in school one of the kids did this in school he got caught with let's say this one kid got caught with weed no obviously you you'd find out like kids would get caught doing things some kid is blackmailing another kid there's bullying going on there's they did what normal kids would do in normal schools and some kids didn't some

kids learned great arabic and they uh were really shall i say pious good kids like really you know like the goody goody kind of like you'd say like a goody goody kid like goody goody two shoes kind of kid but to be honest i think those kids and they're wonderful and they were like uh let's say epic kind of iconic kids to to say oh like you know wow what amazing kids never get into trouble but i think personally those kids would have been like that wherever they were i think that was just those kids like that was a lot to do with the home environment right and and them as well their personality it's like

like they were just like really just just just good souled children that were just always just one very sharp by nature like they you know you love everybody love those kids because they would always you know learn in your subject they would always be keen they'd always just want to do good things but they were like out of that class they would be like like maybe two percent yeah i don't know not even okay maximum five percent of the class they wouldn't be of the kids like they would be like that most kids would just be average but one thing for sure in islamic schools the bullying was a lot less than it was in

secular schools because the classes were smaller the discipline was more strict and plus this is an important thing that the people the pupils the students their parents were more disciplinarian so you see if a child messed about in an islamic school you told their parents they knew they were going to get in trouble whereas in regular schools the parents don't really care sometimes so yeah you have a mix of everyone so so the kids are less likely to care so yes so you do get that so i would say look that's the if you think if you're putting them in an islamic so look i i've spoken to

people who said look i've put my son in an islamic school yeah and and i agree because i was speaking to them and they said because look i just can't risk my son getting into knife crime and gang crime and you know what i don't like to be honest my first and foremost thing is that he just steers clear of that crowd and i 100 back that like i think if you can get a school definitely islamic schools will steer away from knife crime and gang crime and all of that stuff so if that sure i you know what that would be something that i

would actually consider like let's say um if especially with boys yeah girls it's less so those things are not those issues with guilds but i think with boys they can get into gangs they can get into crime they can get into and it can ruin them these years can so yeah i would feel in that situation but this is very little to do with islam as content it's more to do with the kind of discipline and authoritarian and serbia side but islamic content i i would agree that most of the kids that went to the islamic school that i taught in

when they went to college and university they were they struggled immensely yeah because they were they had no experience of the greater world like they were very sheltered kids even though they were very clever and very like they weren't sheltered in terms of like they knew you know they had the latest phones and they were on ipads or whatever it was or you know computers and but they were sheltered in terms of the greater discourse in society like they weren't apart greater society i didn't mix with non-muslims and they didn't yeah so they went to these greater institutes and they didn't they a lot of

them when we did meet up with people afterwards yeah we found out oh a lot of them struggled yeah yeah so that's my thoughts on it ultimately it's up to each family each parent do whatever they see best and yeah hopefully people get through man let's uh you know i just noticed a bunch of people here uh i won't pick up more of your time as great speaking leave it to that much love we'll keep in touch stay in touch people that was taha of raj shukran for the much um for what what a discussion huh education

i'm up i see some people get surprised i'm a bit um i'm a bit blase about education i feel ah i feel it's okay i feel it's good if you're going towards a career that needs that you can only attain via like let's say becoming a doctor becoming an engineer becoming a lawyer you can't become these things becoming a dentist an optician or you know becoming something like that you can't become these things without an academic route so yeah in that sense i would say of course it's great and do it

but i think all the others are just you know like to say emma you know emme it's like neither here neither the you know it's it doesn't nothing you know it doesn't make it to me it's like you leave university and you're like 40 000 pounds in debt and it's useless it's like degree means nothing like i honestly i don't think i think he actually dumbs people down um but i'm not against people doing a degree i just see as like

okay i would rather you know if a person said to me instead of doing a degree i'm gonna do a two different business venture startups and i'm gonna spend one year backpacking around the world that's my three years of it i would rate that and be so much more impressed with that because degree but sure i'm not by me saying this doesn't mean people need to you know it's just my thoughts yeah like to me a degree is like you're just doing what everybody's doing and you're only doing it because other people are doing it it doesn't really mean anything and you're actually just buying into debt it's it's stupid ridiculous corporate business

that have fooled most the people into thinking they need it they don't need it you absolutely it's absolute deception it's such a delusion to think that you need it for the other category and that of course but i'm talking about the other all you know business admin or whatever these kind of useless degrees are you don't need degrees for this kind of stuff and just sure but if you want to do them obviously i i'm very i'm a huge proponent of people who must make their own choices and make their own mistakes

they must live their own mistakes they must learn from their own mistakes and so yeah but i think traveling the world wow now that's an education but you have to travel it i don't mean tourism and you can't travel as tourism as a kid i mean okay they're not a kid but technically a kid i mean okay you know what a de facto a kid you know i mean 19 year olds and these people but they wouldn't have money to travel as tourism but they would struggle but the struggle is important because

through that struggle they grow they mature they um but obviously there's other things there's safety concerns and everything but yeah i i do feel that the only degrees we need is temperature yes somebody said teach them to code yeah coding sure all that kind of but that stuff it's exactly it's free or it's like it's different you know start sure there might be a degree in it but a degree is useless in it so these are my thoughts like i think okay

i'm saying the word useless let me retract that okay it's just it's non-impressive let me put it like that it's just like you know it's like ah you know just just another like like just a blind follower that's all it's not useless okay i i retract that word it's not useless sure it may have some use it may have some use but then origami has some use you know learning how to make a paper airplane has some use and you know learning how to

[Laughter] he said it has some use and then you compare it to origami i love aragami okay as a kid i learned how to make that you know the flapping i still make it till today i make it for and show and the crane kind of flaps his wings right so right okay let's move on people we've got some live guests let me bring on we've got uh

i'm good i'm good what's going on muslims yes how are you doing are you okay why not well uh you were discussing schools and uh it reminded me of an incident uh years back okay when uh a friend of mine his uh kid got suspended because he got involved in a fight and i i ended up writing a big letter to the principal had a meeting with them and finally he was back and in the process i learned that

a friend of his his daughter was sitting at home for almost a year and a half to two years because she couldn't handle the pressure in that sense because she was getting bullied and all the other stuff and when it's tyrannical that what you know the the what is going on in this is such a problem i i can't believe that it's it's kind of uh you know the bullying thing is um just ignored or stepped you know but sorry carry on you were saying yeah yeah but and then uh we actually when we

were with in the meeting with the principal we bought this up too and uh what happened is the principal said here's my cell phone number please give it to the girl ask and tell her to come back to school if anybody tries to bully her she all she needs to do is call my number straight away so what i feel is people okay send them to regular schools but keep in touch with the admin on a regular basis or the senior staff you mean like all the

the kind of pastoral team yeah exactly i agree i agree with you i agree there should be always some kind of communication cool so what else other than because we've spoken quite a bit on education yes there any other precious thoughts preoccupying you were discussing uh the birth of jesus as a visa oh right yes

and um it reminded me of listening to dr annie atkins on the subject um he gives a totally different interpretation uh saying that uh both yaya hazithyaya and hazatissa were the children of zechariah yeah which which he's trying to uh actually he what he's trying to he's doing is he's giving a presentation which i'd totally disagree with yeah so

have you read his or heard of his interpretation uh i i have i heard of it um [Music] not so uh i think earlier this year was it or something i i definitely yeah i heard that he was saying um right that he's he was saying that zakaria ali salaam was the wife

was the husband sorry of maryam ali salam and yeah i found it very very kind of strange really um so yeah um what was the age of zechariah when he is connecting with maryam you see i okay so right i i have in the past i did reach out to um dr hani saying look would you like to come and have a discussion on my

podcast in fact recently i just had a message from someone saying that oh they spoke to him and i said this earlier this year by the way so it's been like about seven months now six seven months i said it i think late last year and then into the new year but somebody just told me i think two weeks ago one week ago that oh they spoke to dr hani and he i don't know they must they they must have mentioned me and so he said yeah mufti abu leith reached out to me and he asked me to come on his show but i didn't i didn't like the format and uh so the person was then telling me

this and i said look i i said i don't know what what you mean by the format what was the format so he said i don't know he thinks you're gonna interview him so i said well i don't i don't know what that means because i don't normally inter uh interview people but i have a just a discussion and i look my point was simple look sure to be honest they were they were you know like if you want to talk about something sure you know let's talk let's discuss it is intriguing it's you know okay these are

some kind of out there very out there theories that don't really seem to add up um but i'm curious that why you feel they add up obviously you he has the very lengthy videos but what but in the videos he's not being asked any questions you see it's just it's it's like if you're talking to someone and you say something then somebody could actually say well how do you answer this then in real time so it just gives it more of a a life to it not to be sure so one may be critical but it's not criticism in the i mean in the sense i guess it is criticism but it's not

um like it doesn't mean somebody's being hateful or they're being even aggressive or they're being it just means that like like let's say i had a theory on something which i'm passionate about if i was and somebody said well would you like to talk about it and then you know we could ask some questions and because it is controversial and so that's it uh if if you're not open to that then that's fine i mean obviously then it's just but it makes it difficult to you know to kind of because people would have questions and and you want to connect so i think what he's doing

is he's reading the quran and he's saying well look maryam and uh alaysalam and zakaria are listed close together in certain things and it mentions that the career you know he mariam is they're in the same home at a certain point because he mentions he comes to the room and he finds her there and he says oh what's this and so there's conversations going on between them and she's also asking for a sign and uh and he's asking for a sign and so maybe these are the same people and he's kind of joining the dots

but you see it doesn't see this is like a huge stretch because well okay well we know okay i don't know if no is the right word but we we understand from biblical history that mary is related to elizabeth so elizabeth is the wife of zechariah i mean she's the mother of john the baptist so elizabeth is much older than mary so but she is like a cousin i believe or something of mary so they are closely related in fact whose painting is it the the famous ah

bloody hell is it um injury um yeah is it caravaggio's or is it is the um let's see was it one of uh let me type in okay

no it's uh now it's once it can just ah you know when it's on your mind and you're like ah what is the but any it's done by several people but i was just thinking what's the fame it's a bunch of famous ones of by uh okay so this yeah there's waden but there's there's more than wait and there's uh all right this is where i needed jamie to say jamie bring it up what's the uh

some of the famous visitation paintings but yeah so so you have a bunch of these paintings right where uh in i mean that's obviously art i mean it's just i'm just saying it obviously we're mary's visiting elizabeth they're both kind of pregnant in in the in the image but so the so he's he's he's making the assumption that she is the wife and i feel that's like a huge leap um even though some of the verses do fit together because zakaria does know mary since she's very young he knows her because he's actually related

into the with the whole family so that and his wife who's much older than mary is a uh i believe a direct cousin or something of mary so she's very but they closely yeah so okay cool but yeah that's uh that's that right do you have any notion of what the age was uh because according to what we read in the quran is that he was in his advanced years and so was uh the cousin the what's her

wife of zechariah she says i'm in my advanced years so basically the age difference between me but does she say that no i mean so okay two things first of all um yes she is oh in the general christian tradition she is much older than mary but does it say that in the quran that she's really old or does it say that she's but it does say that she's in that one also doesn't it say she's barren she's a baron yeah she's baron yeah that's what the quran says you you're right but

yeah so but byron about the old age it's saying about ibrahim's wife isn't that about ibrahim's wife as opposed to is zakaria's wife is saying about being barren in the quran and she assumes she's barren so yeah but okay sure no right cool that's a wrap now basically what what i see is if when the quran says the similitude of jesus is that of adam

now where is the similitude that's what we have got to look the similitude is actually if you read the surah al hajir 15 29 what we see is allah fashions adam out of clay now when the clear part the human is complete he does not command the angels to prostrate to adam

only when he puts his spirit into adam his spirit he says now prostrate to adam now the one individual or you can say is a please he says no i am not frustrating to adam now he should have been given a medal of honor for not doing so because he's saying no allah i'm not prostrating to anyone but you yeah but what happens is he's he's asked to exit paradise because

allah gives him a chance saying what is your reason for not prostrating and he goes into this physical comparison i am made of fire and he is made of clay as such i am superior to him now why does he say he is superior to him because he does not see the spirit of god in adam allah tala was not asking everybody to prostrate to the clay so what you're kind of saying is sorry to just to kind of sum it as well to kind of bring it to a because there's a bunch of people as

well i want to kind of get to them so what you're saying is the similitude is more in the spirit that is breathed into and when when jesus is born uh the same wording is used that nafachna from our spirit is breathed into uh mary the quran mentions when it comes to jesus and the same thing is mentioned for adam that is a similar to you yeah that's a very you're right i that's a very profound similitude which i overlooked and i think maybe certain people may have overlooked that and i think

that's shukran i appreciate you uh bringing that to my attention you're right that's uh and to people's attention that's um there's a something about whatever that means i mean i don't know what that exactly means the spirit but whatever it means uh there is this similitude of some this kind of very uh [Music] extraordinary quality of the spirit uh with jesus and the spirit with adam so further down if you look at it he if in the same says

talks about the progeny of satan you know so basically who are the progeny of satan who failed to see the spirit of god so basically that's why they called progeny of a bliss because as a bliss could not see the spirit of god in adam but saw only his his um clear part all those who fail to see the spirit are the progeny of a police and i won't take more of your time thank you and i appreciate that shukran shukran right for your insights take care

all right people that was uh massive muslim and right let me just check who we've got here in the studio then we're gonna let's we'll wrap this up as well we've got dr dr hashem abu fatima salam how are you doing

uh how are you doing i'm i'm great more importantly how are you and what thoughts are preoccupying your your precious mind doctor well thoughts are quite a bit but they are actually few that we both disagree on okay i've been listening i say to people sometimes that i disagree with myself on many things you know other people mimbabi ola

of course they will disagree with me i i disagree with myself but yeah you're saying so okay so what are some of these first of all now finally i found how to interact with you i've been listening to you for a few months maybe oh wow okay but i couldn't find with the time differences because i'm saudi you're in uk sorry my first question sorry should have been worried which normally is you know today i'm a bit slow i think i didn't get you know like the coffee here it didn't really work on me today because my first question is usually

where are you joining us from so uh that's i should have asked that so we're in saudi is it uh real time oh actually wow okay so sorry carry on yeah okay so uh the thing is uh this was the reason i couldn't find how to interact with you a few questions are i'll come down is uh transgender because i know you have been different thoughts about the things gays and lesbians lgbtq okay i don't know do i do i have different thoughts i don't know it means different from the mainstream

muslims i don't know do i no do i yeah i've heard a few things which you answered since you seem to know more about me than me but okay i don't know where i've said this i don't know where you've heard these but okay okay my point is muslims that recently i've seen a few muslim scholars were well-known scholars not in america and europe they're joining hands with the lgbtq and as we see in quran it goes against the quran then what is this this fitna arabic finna not urdu krishna

and why why the scholars muslims call especially all over the world i haven't seen it except for you like danny lucky but he is not a scholar researcher like myself not being no big scholar i have spoken of against it or refuted it my point is that refuted what what are we talking about the what what have they not refuted what is the thing we're talking about the the big scholar joining no no no yeah but what are they joining like what is the thing that they're joining hands with what

what is the what is the thing that they if what is the topic of like what are we talking about when you're saying they're joining hands with lgbtq what does that mean what is it what is that because they're giving an impression they're still platonic it's normal uh not means like humanity it's platonic or it's normal that uh lgbtq rituals that began acquisition uh yeah veganic which will have a research on that which pick pecanic pagan rituals for they they draw they pour water on the ground but if you go into the

the geek or research of this uh ritual it's very satanic and sorry what are we talking about well i don't understand what would you refer to that you went and spilling water

joining hands with the priests of lgbtq and doing this paganic ritual right okay so look to be honest you know the i so just to understand the question right so doctor omar soleman did something which is where he went to some protest and he what was the word of the of the the ritual but where they pour some water and this um has its roots in some pagan practices

now omar suleiman obviously in his defense said look i uh i just went to the protest obviously we didn't know exactly what was going to happen i did what they did and to be honest they poured water i poured water i don't realize there's a history of uh some religiosity you know like if we're walking and you all touch this wall and i say all right am i supposed to touch it and you touch and say oh my god did you know 400 years ago uh there was an e a witch that used to touch this wall and you did it so i don't really know the history i'm just doing what everybody's doing so okay now this is the the story of it but i don't see why but personally

what is that got to do with you're asking should we comment on it is this the question we should all why should we should we all be talking about it i don't know why actually scholars should say that this is a wrong thing which he did scholars not uh commoners who are we don't have the what was it called libation or something was it called like live i remember uh i remember it was at the time when sheikh umar suleiman did this it was um it was being discussed

and he mentioned libation that's it libation a drink poured out as an offering to a deity so okay the pouring out of a libation yep a drink he probably thought i thought we were going to lunch it's like a lunch break

so okay i don't think people have to condemn him if people want to condemn personally is it really something is this really that big of a deal somebody goes and pours some water and is it a big deal to you uh do you feel that's a really big deal abul is because i'm a student of knowledge so not big deal because i can i know that what he's doing is wrong but the commoner people can't take him as a beam of light

so do you feel do you feel that for example libation increased amongst the muslim communities after sheikh did it increase no not liberation didn't increase no no this is not that point point is joining hands with lgbtq promotes their agenda into muslim society oh so this isn't about the libation this is about what they were they were gay priests that were present and why did he join hands with gay uh actual hanzo was in his metaphorical hands as they know actual hand and also

was there [Laughter] whilst they're standing their hands coming around on the shoulder [Laughter] it's like it's like oh yeah so right okay so the question is muslims should be uh anti-gay is this the question do you feel do you feel nor do you feel muslims should be anti-gay

not that type of antigua okay there are two types of one the religious the one is i don't know any of them tell us one is the thing which we call which is in pakistan from where i belong in yublong that anything anything which goes against your uh perception of religion he should be killed or he should be destroyed or he should be he should be killed killed clearly

that's the thing which i saw in pakistan who should be killed oh you mean oh you mean like oh right okay you're saying people do this out of ignorance they attack people not that kind of so you're saying okay not okay so let's there should be no violence no persecution no abuse nothing like this but you shouldn't support their right to be gay this is what you're saying okay no no no no no no no no no okay they are free they can okay they so you do support their right to be free

yeah yeah i'm talking about the right thing thing that they want to be it's their choice it's between them and allah and if they're if they're muslim but the point is we should preach the message listen this is the thing quran tells us this if you're a muslim if you're non-muslim again if which religion for example bible bible speaks against that act of a lot people of lot you also have the same text but if someone is uh still after delivering the message continuously it's between him and his god right we are not there so i don't understand so the question is that

right so in society people so you agree and i'm just being clear so you agree people have the right to be gay now you're saying well however we should go around telling them what the quran says about that is this like so we should go up to gay people and say do you know what allah says in the quran about is this what we should be doing do you do you think is that what a duty is they are muslims if they are muslims but okay but look but let's let's take america you talk about america as an example muslims are a tiny minority in america tiny insignificant almost minority so majority of america

is not muslim like a minority of you know that's minority people so when you're speaking generally about issues in a country you're going to speak about the norms not the exceptions so the norm is you're not talking about muslims so america is not muslim and a minority a very small minority of the 300 million people of america are muslim tiny people so it's insignificant it's like if you're trying to speak about chinese issues in the uk like there are chinese people that live in the uk but they're very you know they're not

it's not the uk though so so when you're speaking about lgbtq or people being gay or people being in america now you're speaking about the american people which for the absolute overwhelming utter astronomical majority are not muslims so so what's the issue the the issue is should you go around telling them about the the quran and stuff is this the issue but they're not muslims so why are you telling them in the minor in that minority the beam of light is for example um that minority

two words um as a source of heed or hidden right okay the okay famous chair and well do you feel like okay let's take because right now i don't understand this is obviously all about let's say um i don't know why i'm speaking on behalf of salah last time i spoke to him it was about i think i spoke to sheikh umar it's probably been about what was it about five years ago five years yesterday exactly i saw you and naman yes since then i don't think i've ever we've

ever spoken so i i'm not really i don't think he would want me speaking on behalf of him he would be like i don't want you to speak off for him i'm saying the scholars should say that what he did was wrong publicly publicly on their channels not directly i'm just saying that let's okay let's roll with it let's unpack this yes like so what this what we're saying is in america uh they are so you agree you agree that americans they're absolutely in their right to be gay there's there's no issue with this

from your side you're not disagreeing with that it's just your smooth civil rights i what have to do with that their choice yes so now what you're saying is you have lgbtq let's say i don't know what the like rallies or you have rights or whatever so people like sheikh umar salehman uh are us are supporting those people or they're supporting that movement or they're not condemning they're not being outspoken against these things this is the issue can i ask first of all okay we'll come to some islamic side in a moment do you feel that

what is the insecurity about this uh i'm just trying to understand that what what what disturbs you about this if something is a haram in islam according to quran how can you promote the agenda of that fitna into your own community by joining hands with the people who are promoting it the people who did that act man with men it's totally prohibited in quran i know you disagree no we don't wait no actually let's start on that why do you say i disagree what have i said a few videos i'm not sure if you changed

your perspective no but what did you see say what you saw because i don't know some uh sources of muslim history where yeah i think or uh yeah just um yes of course so did so when i gave references of some muslim scholars who said homosexuality was permissible did i say that i believe it to be permissible but no i didn't i don't remember that you say that so you just said no but you just said i know you disagree so so i'm curious when you said that

i know you disagree on this where did you hear me disagree in in that in that video which is off you know where i said some people disagreed yes yes so okay so i so if i say to you some people have said it's some muslims like isis have said no no you're right wrong perception of your no i said no i'll tell you what i said in the thing i said ver i gave a history of and a diverse perspective i said there are ulama they were in a minority this is who they were they said homosexuality

was not haram this is who they were but it's there in the books and let's you know which let's just be honest like a lot of the ulama of not a lot but there were several ulama from islam who are bisexual i mean it's very clear in their books they make all this ibn hasan's book is full of it all these other it's it's very clear their own they'll speak of sexual tendencies they'll speak of when they're fascinating and i mention a history now i'm not saying i'm not saying the word value judgment i'll take my words back i apologize maybe i got the wrong perception of you right so then i did say that look some people

if they do follow that let's say some people do follow it they say okay this person said it like at the end of the day i said look it's not our job to police people you could say look i disagree with you i actually said look you could say i believe this is haram that's your view they might say look i don't believe it's haram okay it's there you might say your view is wrong but this is all part of the discussion that has happened in islamic history whether we like it or not we could say look the majority have said it's haram and a minority of people have either been very ambivalent on the matter and some have said it's not hara but

the difference is when people are going to say well see because that the point of that discussion when i made the video was saying that people were they were persecuting certain people who obviously especially muslim uh homosexuals and i said well this thing is utterly unacceptable and if you look at the islamic history there is a diverse history whether you like it or not you know you can pretend it doesn't exist everything that's a person saying look i oh oh i pretend let's be honest most of you know you you name me a scholar almost okay that's a bit of a stretch but most scholars from every set most or many

right if you've studied islamic literature many countless scholars of islam uh they appreciated bisexuality so they they clearly had an appreciation for it they whether they practiced it or not it's difficult because we most of them won't talk about their private lives but they will write in their poetry praising how beautiful certain boys are how sexually attractive they are how they want to kiss them how they want to do all these things all of them i don't know if you read arabic and you read these uh poems clearly they just read ibn hasan the hamama is full of it he'll talk about i witness this the imam he

mentions the imam's son in his time he mentions all these people in kurtoba you you pick up any you you pick up the books i i quoted the poem from arabi i quoted imam no reason people got upset they misunderstood what i was saying i was saying look imam know we in his fatwa says everybody knows uh that boys he says many boys are far more beautiful and attractive to men than women and i was like i i don't relate at all to what he's saying but this clearly he's saying this he's acknowledging a bisexual tendency but it doesn't mean now he's saying he's gay like people are saying oh my god this is an insult

i never said that so people obviously are going off their own way but look okay let's let's kind of reel this back what are the insecurities that people have like what do you feel is uh what bothers you i get it you're saying that these people like sheikh uh omar suleiman is a shirt now but what's the insecurity do you feel more people are becoming gay because of our solemn not only humor suleiman agenda which is being promoted within our society muslim society through different things not only through shaykh or sulaiman through

media cartoons full of gay things that okay i do i do agree with you i agree with you that i do feel there is a disproportional kind of push on uh on all of this stuff on the lgbtq there is a push that is disproportionate so you're right like i see things in cartoons i see things like much more than you'd see in just say generally that you see now that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist it does exist but i feel there's a quota in media to make up like to make sure every show for example has now

uh a gay couple in it every show has a and it's and even children's shows they have to make sure like and there is a somewhat of a disproportionate push on trying well it doesn't tally with what the numbers but it seems to think it's like well this is obviously they've got an agenda and they may say well the agenda is to make it seem more normal so people don't abuse them uh and that that's a you know that that makes sense from one perspective the other perspective is well it may be misrepresentative of reality because it's not actually it does exist but it doesn't it's not to

that extent that it's being and i must say one thing that i did speak on that i did find uh disturbing was in the uk there were certain schools that they were from they wanted from a very young age uh push a lot of this onto kids this kind of sexualization and i felt that this is like kids that are just five years old six years old and i felt that this is really disturbing that you are trying to push all of this sexualization onto kids kids you know they don't deserve that they just innocent like leave them alone and when they reach an age of some um kind of

shall we say discernment and they have some kind of uh that they can they have at least reasonable i don't just mean common child understanding somewhat they at least ten they're that kind of age sure you want to discuss certain things discuss it with them but i think to discuss this with like five-year-olds six-year-olds to be and look i have no problem i've said this in the past i have no problem even to five-year-olds saying that people if they said like let's say in school they said look some people have two mummies some people have two daddies tk because that is the case then there

are some kids in the school that do have that so you could that saying that is i'm i'm i that's absolutely fine that's just describing reality but i have made a point there as well i have said that i find it then hypocritical that you're not allowed to say that some people have two wives uh that people find this you know because because polygamy is in the schools here or in the general broader west western culture it is really uh like demonized and i i find that strange that why can't because that's also reality isn't it some

men especially within the muslim community some people do have two wives some people have three wives maybe okay not as much but you get some that do it so in that sense that's also descriptive of reality so schools in young schools they should also be able to say that they should say that by the way some people uh you know they in their home they have one dad and they have two moms and you know their dads have two wives and it's i see that as the hypocrisy of the system that they condemn that and they say that oh but the other one we're just describing reality you know because if we don't teach the kids then how are they supposed to understand that other some people in the school might have

which is true some kids in the school do have like two dads at home or two moms at home but some kids in the school have also their dads have got like two wives and three wives so so what especially in the muslim areas and yeah this is a a hypocrisy clear hypocrisy so look i but i do say look i i've said this in the past i don't think i don't think this isn't this is my this is where so here's where i'm at i feel that it is true there is you know lots going on in society it's

not just lgbt stuff there's a lot more wishy-washy stuff going on in society which does disturb people you know like now you're not even allowed to say what a man is you're not even allowed to say what a woman is you know you know there's a whole program what is a woman and what's this name um what's it matt walsh i think he goes around interviewing people and they're not allowed to say what is a woman and i think that's it's like disturbing for people because it upsets people that what because if you say oh you're a bigot you know you're not allowed to say uh oh and this is a woman because anybody could be i right now i would say i'm a woman you're a woman okay we're women now okay we say uh you

know we it's just you say and it is my point my point is that saying that crow is white it doesn't turns it white yeah i agree with you i i 100 these wishy-washy things are are disturbing i i agree with you that said i disagree you see people say well you see all of this is kind of put into one lump because obviously you're saying well the lgbt you know you've got homosexuals and then you've got this as well so people are putting it as one i would say you see look when it comes to the homosexual issue

homosexuality i would say as imam malik said when he was asked in the madokana that he said that what should we do we have like the people said we have communities that zoroastrian communities that marry their sisters and marry their mothers and marry their daughters and marry their sons they do incest should we han should we interfere because muslims had some authority imam alex said he said he said and allah a tolerated shirk which is other mean

than this and i would say incest that's definitely far more disturbing to people people who are disturbed by homosexuality they they would be much more disturbed by incest right natural because obviously a person's own mother person's own father person's own sister own brother own children this is like even animals don't you see incest if you in the book third chimpanzee uh jared diamond he presents uh research on incest even animal species don't con commit incest they would choose the he shows the study on mice that was

separated since birth they don't choose the sibling still they choose the cousin but they don't choose the sibling so if they've been separated since birth but they could somehow see something about the smell that no so the the point is that imam malik was saying look it's their way of life it's their way of life like sure you know we so homosexuality look if it's their way of life it's their way of life you know i don't think by people being gay makes us gay you know like if there were 10 100 gay people standing on the street we're not going to become gay just because there's gay people standing here you

know it doesn't i think this is an unnecessary insecurity like some people have like oh my god oh my god we're all going to become gay like because some people are gay it doesn't work that way it doesn't it look if it's their life it's their life let them be but i do agree that you see things aren't just it's not just it's not this homosexuality i believe that we are now in an era where there is this kind of like this really wishy-washy age coming about where you're not allowed to say you're being silenced you're being silenced on just having a belief like even look i did say that you see now if you say

there was a clip i spoke about that some person in some places you're not like they don't want you to even say women have babies you you can't say that you have to say people with capacity to get pregnant one psychologist let me continue here one psychologist was asked on a national tv do you believe a transgender woman he said this is a very wrong question because yes i don't believe the woman and he gave the points they cannot bear child their dna makeup is not what a woman has so yes they're not woman but i'm not

telling i'm not saying in that that you are expecting me to yeah but i want to say here look there's there there are studies there are studies right psychological studies you're right that look the chromosomes don't change and these things don't change but there are studies that you have certain uh you'll have certain regions within the thalamus certain so so the male brain so this is the problem today in this day and age so much is going on uh people are so the male brain and the female brain are not like mirror images of in fact it's not just about obviously male brain they're going to say well there's a size difference because of the body size difference not about that

but there's certain things within it that are slightly different and one of them is the allocation uh or a regional allocation to to to sex sexual differences so you have within the thalamus certain regions and other parts that are different obviously of the androgen receptors which are uh behaving different because of the testosterone as well as impacting the male brain but you have certain regions in a brain in the brain that um that in a man this there's more uh of these kind of cell these neurons that are active for uh that are sexually um

that represent sexuality in a man in a in a male than in a female there's certain different ones and you see a difference so they now the interesting thing is that they did find in um in in certain people in let's say gender this dysmorphia you did find that certain people when they um they they did uh you know they operated and when they became trans transgender that the brain that they had actually correlated with the other gender that they changed to

so they did find that in several cases now the question is it's not in obviously in all the cases i get that and there are there are several uh there's a lot of uh stuff on where people have regrets as well and that's obviously something important as well and these things i do believe these things are you know they are very serious things that people need to obviously think through and discuss with professionals like doctors which i'm sure they do the only thing look to me a person it is their life their journey if they have this struggle that they feel look my within i feel that this is you know this is the

like my whole life i felt i'm the opposite gender this is not this and they speak to consultants i'm not a consultant right i'm not a you know somebody that's an extra psychologist sure no i'm i'm a psychologist as well but i'm not a a person that will speak to i i mean i've have a degree in psychology and i have a background in psychology as well but the but i'm not a medical professional that deals with these in a um but let's say they speak to the professionals they get the consultant kind of professional opinion they realize and they take that decision that's up to them it's their life it's their choice and they will they will

walk the path and with many people i do know it has been like it's this was something that changed their life for the for the better but they have been other cases where they've they felt that it became an absolute kind of catastrophe and they couldn't undo it and all these articles online i would say look these are people's choices it's not for me it's not for you it's whatever it's there the medical professional that deal with them it's their journey but the only thing i would say and i am this is i'm i'm worried about is with children you see i just feel that with children

these things you see that's where for me it's it's like well i don't know what's going on you see i don't feel that an industry that is now becoming more corporatized and more kind of a lot of more a lot more money is being pumped into it i i feel that see children that they have to because if a child says this well okay you see because this is the child at a decision level to to be making these decisions i don't know this is but this seems very dangerous to me the child thing an adult a person that look they've lived their life they say they've they've

experienced gender dysmorphia they're the opposite side they've spoken to professionals they make that choice that's their life okay um tk you know it's it's look at the end of the day if you're going through some condition you're going to speak to a psycho you're going to speak to some professional they're gonna give you the advice you're gonna you might speak to two you might speak to five you follow it it's your life the only thing is with children i would i would say that that you know you shouldn't put children through this kind of stuff until they can't make a decision for themselves because that unless unless it's a different because there are some conditions which are different from childbirth it's very you know like you

have certain where the doctors from childbirth would say that oh like they're born with both genitalia and their immune system yeah intersex kind of so that's different i'm not talking about that that they do from a childhood kind of advice and stuff exactly exactly but yeah so this um yeah thanks very much my second thing second and last question because i have to go on beauty yeah i think we will wrap this has gone on but yeah go on why not to preach and not directly towards you and acting in general towards them

the scholar why not to preach uh muslims if preachers because i my background is i was born and brought up as a shia but then i went through researches on our own through our own books and now i follow those things which i found correct according to my own research so you can say i'm the cast cast out okay okay so why not background why not to preach to shia

about the things which are totally uh wrong and have become taboo in their religion in their you see i okay look i right i've this is the thing i feel that um it's it this is it what happens is it just becomes an argument a debate uh not sorry not just a debate but an argument it just becomes fighting sectarianism you see people people are what they are they're born on it they sure look people can change i i

get this i'm not against uh you know being open to discussion but i feel that some of these are moot points like they're not going to get anywhere you're just going to have a view they're going to have a view and you're just going to clash bet it's better to let people walk their own path some people you know through as they question things they may feel yeah this doesn't add up to me or i want to ask someone sure in that case if somebody comes to you then discuss with them but i feel you taking it to people just leads to kind of sectarian fighting and if they come to you then by all means

you know you talk you sit down you you provide answers but i i yeah i i'm not i'm not personally for all the kind of sunishia debating thing because i feel it does no good it just does harm people but mostly i have a question why as a part of our duty as a part of responsibility according to islam we are for the preaching right and you should preach the religion in both ways islam and a calling towards islam means islam for the muslims and calling to islam to the non-muslims right yeah where is that like that right okay look

right look this is i feel there's a lot of misunderstanding around this that people feel this they have a duty to preach i i feel there's a misunderstanding around that i don't feel we have it i feel let me rephrase it we have a duty to be an example

there's a difference not a duty to preach we have a duty to be an example now you may say be an example by the word but more importantly live it like that you know this kind of teaching uh do should we um should we preach should we preach should we preach this kind of stuff it never said this anywhere preach either preach preach it it just said look be examples of virtue yeah like sure muslims you know they they should be pillars of a community they should be people who help people

people who do charity people who speak about god's glory like wherever they go they you know always praise god they see that to that so if we want to call that preaching or you want to call that teaching by example uh however we want to call it it doesn't make a difference that i agree this spot on sometimes we confuse that with preaching information about all these and i think that's what that does is it makes us very judgy like we start you know you know like in in arabic they'll like many of the ulama would say you know if they they become

i'm better than you i pray five times a day i do this i did oh yeah speaking of salah oh you are a doctor you're an actual doctor a psychiatrist and i take it and a medical doctor said psychology yeah because you know in the uk a psychologist is not a medical professional he's a a psychologist but a psychiatrist is a is a doctor on about you know mental illnesses and stuff so oh when you said that i didn't get but uh about fatima it's been a pleasure

uh do stay in touch i'm just gonna quickly have to do so take care all right wow what a discussion just going off on so many permutations a lot there being discussed on issues um homosexuality and stuff like this yeah you know you know look in a nutshell what i would say seriously i think people

the best possible thing you could do is focus on yourself be an example of light just just live don't ah yeah you know it's we there are confusing times but look people don't i think if a person focuses on themselves and then like the quran says or unforsaken you want to save someone you want to focus on someone on yourself it says then your family then then you kind of just be a light shining for people let people

uh see you and think yeah why is that guy always so positive why is that person always so you know happy why is this person so tranquil why is this person always at peace i want what they have allah this is how people came to islam this was the message of the prophets allahis i think you know it's not let's not worry about condemning let's not worry about let's let's let's worry about inviting let's worry about you know welcoming welcome everyone you know

and i think there's this great uh messages in that there's a great message um yeah right people i'm gonna leave you with that um i don't know what people are discussing in here some kind of debate are they going on i don't know right uh rohim tj used to guilt trip all right rohim you're uh part of the yahoo membership yahoo youtube memberships drop me a message on insta i've been trying to reach out to

the members but youtube interface to re to speak to the members is so uh so anybody who's a youtube member do uh drop me a message on insta let me know and i'm gonna be setting up certain things uh for you guys okay uh and other than that people it's much love i gotta sign out um for those of you want to reach out to me instagram uh you're more than welcome look there's a lot of detailed questions you're more than welcome to have one-to-one perspective sessions you go to patreon it's forward slash malm you can subscribe to the tier and you you can get one it shows you how

to kind of slot yourself in using the the schedule you can have one-to-one perspective sessions and use them and there i can discuss you know to your heart's content within the hour the hour that you have the and right people much love may allah bless you may he may he enlighten your path ahead of you i mean take very good care of yourselves

is