# Can I carry a child while I pray?

*Hanafi rigidity: carrying a child in prayer and the campaign against a preacher*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/s/6/
- Date: 2021-04-06 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #209 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (23:17–36:02)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ85AUzeK5w&t=1397s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/

**Topics:** The Hanafi school and Imam Abu Hanifa; Conditions of a valid prayer; Cults, clergy and religious abuse

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says one may carry a child while praying and that Hanafi rulings such as the three-movement rule, or that laughing or reading something breaks the prayer, are made up. He sees the campaign against the preacher who showed this as sectarian jealousy.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says that one may carry a child while praying and that Hanafi rulings such as the invalidation of prayer by three consecutive movements, by laughing or by mentally processing information are made up.

**Evidence, his words at 30:29:** “Obviously, needless to say, all these things are made up and don't mean anything. You can do it all in salah.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ85AUzeK5w&t=1829s)

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth says the Hanafi school is the most notorious for locking its rulings, and recounts a recent campaign of what he calls sectarian venom against a popular preacher, whose name the transcript does not render clearly, who had received death threats. The pretext, he says, was a video in which the preacher prays carrying a child and cites the hadith that the Prophet prayed carrying a child, against the Hanafi rule that more than three consecutive movements invalidate the prayer; critics insisted on the Hanafi position as fixed by Ibn Abidin [?], and also attacked the preacher for a children's programme in which he appears as a teddy bear and for his long hair. Along the way he lists other Hanafi rulings he calls odd, that laughing in prayer breaks wudu and that mentally processing meaningful information breaks the prayer, and says all such rulings are made up and that one may do these things in prayer, as the Malikis never accepted them. He says the school as it stands is very different from Abu Hanifa himself, praises Shaykh Atabek [?] as a breath of fresh air among Hanafis, helped by coming from outside the countries that dominate Islamic discourse, and attributes the attacks to jealousy at the preacher's following.

## Sources and names cited

- Hanafi school
- Abu Hanifa
- Abu Yusuf
- Ibn Abidin [?]
- Shaykh Atabek [?]
- report: the prophet prayed carrying a child (unresolved)
- Barelvi
- Maliki school
- wudu

## Transcript (machine tier, 23:17–36:02)

[23:14] now some madhabs are much more notorious for that and others are less So um so the Hannfi Mazb is probably the most notorious on that issue. They're absolute control freaks. I mean like it's psychotic how controlling the the scholars were the scholars who have died. Not now. They're not. These people are just you know one they're incompetent but two they're stuck because they can't um you know actually that you know there's been this whole drama.

[23:47] I don't know if you guys have uh caught up with it. There's been this whole drama. I was asking last week a bit about I wonder what's going on. It's with Sheh Assam and he'd been receiving also some kind of death threats and and I was trying to I was trying to ask that you know what's happening with Aslam because for the most part he's a you know pleasant sweet guy.

[24:12] He's not somebody controversial and he's not somebody who rocks the boat or but yeah. So it turns out people [laughter] this is what it is. It's just like sectarian venom. So some of the brilli I mean there Sufi he's also from that kind of background but they've turned on him.

[24:42] and and the pretext was um he had done a video where he's carrying a child in prayer and I think he's trying to show that um there's a hi ruling called uh um you know or that it breaks salah. Yeah. So so if you move around in prayer your prayer breaks.

[25:10] Now this is really moreo a hannfi thing. Hanafi are really unfortunately they're very pedantic in their does not reflect the spirit of Imam Abu Hanifh in the slightest. I mean maybe there's remnants there's fossils [laughter] there's fossilized fatwas in the madhab that show this madhab it may have had you know it has it some traces going back to Imam Abhani or that Imam Abu Hanifh was once here you know this fossil footprints but they're just fossils you know fossil traces the um

[25:48] the mehab itself is it's like a completely it's a it's a different it's like a Frankenstein uh to what Imam Abu Hanifh was and I'm not saying this to diss people who are Hanafi they you know I I said before that look this is unfortunately [snorts] it just is the way it is so you know people who are open-minded and want to develop it's difficult for them to remain hanny and be like that I mean they can do it but it's hard and they'll face a lot of slack from people because it's going against the entire entire

[26:24] stream that is so locked in and but coming back to this point but some scholars do do that like sheh Atabek and people like Shehabek are a you know a breath of fresh air for the hanfi but one of the only reasons uh shehabek has managed or it's not one of the only reason but a reason that has helped his cause is that he's not from a part of the world that dominates an Islamic discourse.

[27:00] So like I've mentioned previously, certain countries dominate Islamic discourses throughout the world. It's very geo, you know, it's interesting. You can't escape geography. It's [laughter] you can't escape geography. What's that book? What's the book about? I've got it here somewhere about uh it's about why what it's about like why geography matters but but it's trying to show how if you just understand the history of geography all the current world political um whether it's rivalry or issues or you know catast catastrophes all make sense

[27:39] if you just understand the geography of things I've got it here somewhere um but I've forgotten the title right you guys probably somebody will probably put it up there But so this makes a a lot of sense. So Shehabek because he's not from one of those countries he I feel that's helped him in his kind of in his cause.

[28:04] But coming back to this, so the Hanafia have a lot of weird fatawa about salah and one of them is this about if you move in such a way um why is every mod a girl? [laughter] Look at the look at the issues going on.

[28:27] People see these are the issues, huh? [laughter] I'm trying to explain something so deep and complex and some person's come on here and he's like, "Why are these moderators killed?" [laughter] I'm sure there's some guys in there as well. You know, if you if you're that keen, I'm sure some of those guys can get in touch with you. Frowdy, if you get in touch with the brother and [laughter] he wants some intimate disclosure about your gender.

[28:57] So, yeah. Right now, that's it. See, Roselina says 99 problems. Huh? That's that's that's the issue with the world. Uh why me me? Coming back to the point. So there are some strange fatawa to do with salah like things like so for example if you laugh in salah your woodoo breaks.

[29:22] uh things like this which are odd and peculiar but also the hafia have a thing that if you if you compute anything mentally within salah it breaks your prayer. So like if you if you can read something like let's say let's say I'm praying now and I read this size matters [laughter] does it I don't right so but if you read something your salah breaks because you computed like mentally that you cognitively processed data.

[30:00] So to cognitively process data that is meaningful, not just data like, oh, the color of the carpet is brown, but to compute anything that is interpreted as information that can add to your knowledge. So I suppose if size matters may not mean much, it could I guess, but if there was a a sentence or something, you would break your salot, which is really weird actually.

[30:29] weird as hell. But anyway, so they have this ruling that if you are moving in such a way like if you do more than three consecutive movements in salah, your salah breaks. Obviously, needless to say, all these things are made up and don't mean anything. You can do it all in salah. Okay? So, just so [laughter] the Malikia obviously didn't accept any of this stuff years ago. But now, here comes the masah.

[30:55] Can you carry a child whilst praying? Because Naturally, when you're carrying the child, you know, you're doing this and the child might be moving and you're kind of moving around and you know, maybe as you go to the floor, you put the child down, then you do your saga, now you get up, you hold the child again. So, there's a few movements that are consecutive and because the hanafia have this three strike rule that if you do three consecutive movements like [laughter] out out this one out.

[31:23] So you go you go like this one two [laughter] and that you're out. So if because you've done three movements now you've picked up the child now you've got up you've probably straightened the child so your salah is invalid now sheam had done a video where he had said that you know he was praying with a child and then he quotes the hadith that the prophet held um and he prayed and this is a hadith that the prophet prayed carrying a child so so he said well look this is fine and you know this doesn't uh violate the

[32:01] principle of such excessive action that violates the prayer. Anyway, so they jumped on him and people like, "What the hell? You're not allowed to go outside the Hanfi. This is the Hanfi. I've said it is by the way the He's the He's the sunshines out of Abid. [laughter] He is like the great god Rah.

[32:33] Ah, you're doing it. You know, you're doing it. So, Aiden is only from like about 150 years ago, by the way. But, uh, he he lived in Damascus, but he's like the heavyweight undisputed Han. He outranks and whatever he says is today the Hanfi Madab. It doesn't matter whether Abu Hanifh said something else. Doesn't matter whether Abu Yusf said something. his choice. What he chooses is what the Hanfi Mad goes by today.

[33:00] So they said, "Well, he said it's not allowed and blah blah blah." And so now they unleashing the wrath of hell. You know, the dogs of hell, the hounds of hell were unleashed. Go fetch. [laughter] So Shehlam Bara was just getting, you know, hounded by these people. And and then I didn't know this but Sheh Assam has a kind of tu child children's program about uh where he dresses as a teddy bear I think.

[33:30] So they had a clip of Sheh Islam. So I don't know whether that's him or he's just doing the voice over. So he's kind of speaking to children. And so they go what the hell is this nonsense? And Alim isn't allowed to dress as a teddy bear. [laughter] They go role play. What this role play man this not too much man too much.

[33:57] So they started unleashing at him and um yeah so his proper and then they also attacked him about his hair you know you can never please people though isn't it? So they said uh she Aslam his hair is like quite long. So they had this picture of him. I was watching it. He's they you know like a closeup. He's got his face, his his heart or whatever, and he's got hair which is probably like hanging onto his kind of traps.

[34:24] And they go, "What on earth is this? These are the shakes." They go, "What on earth is this?" They go, "This is clearly this is uh acting like a woman [laughter] panten' L'Oreal." So yeah, so they just been have beenounding him and but it's madness. It's madness. Um but I hope uh you know I hope people can just see sense and follow sense and logic and you know not uh this kind of you know this kind of

[35:02] like mob mentality and and in all honesty what it is is people are just jealous of sheam because they they just see that he's got like a following and he's not you see the thing about shehlam is Even though he's he's very intelligent, but I don't think his talks are usually very ilme ili. I think his talks are just more just saying soft things and nice things and and they they're very mystical as well, very kind of sufic sometimes and a bit of folklore and that kind of and and so he addresses that kind of I don't know that kind of

[35:41] audience and recently he's been doing a lot of talks in Mirpuri as well. So there's all of that as well. Now people are just they feel that why is he getting attention and that's it. So people this jealousy this one not nice. Speaking of jealousy [laughter] jealousy, there's there's so many people, you know, I just you you've realized how many people hate on you just simply just out of jealousy.

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment zZ85AUzeK5w/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/s/6/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.