# Did Mufti Abu Layth say incest is natural, and is homosexuality unnatural?

*Misquoted on incest: what he said about homosexuality, nature and Imam Malik*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/s/10/
- Date: 2021-04-06 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #209 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (54:49–1:04:21)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ85AUzeK5w&t=3289s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/

**Topics:** Sexuality and orientation; The Mufti and the channel

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth never said incest is natural. He says that calling homosexuality unnatural is not scientific because it occurs in most species, though one may still hold it haram, and that he cited Imam Malik only for not interfering in other people's way of life.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says he never said incest is natural; he said that calling homosexuality unnatural is not scientifically accurate because it occurs in most species, while one may still hold it haram, and he cited Imam Malik's ruling not to interfere in other people's way of life.

**Evidence, his words at 59:50:** “So to say the statement that homosexuality is not natural, it's not scientifically accurate and it's not a it's not to to make statements about nature is not the realm of religion.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ85AUzeK5w&t=3590s)

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth passes over several chat items briefly, asking what is meant by anti-natalism and referring a question on Jesus making birds to an earlier video. He then says his critics cannot decide whether his arguments are too weak to bother with or must be distorted, and that a screenshot circulating online splices his comments to claim he says incest is natural, which he says he has never said. He explains what he did say: that although most scholars consider homosexuality haram, the claim that it is unnatural is not scientifically supported, since it occurs in almost every species though it is not the dominant practice, and statements about nature belong to science rather than religion; one may still say it is haram as a belief. Separately he had cited Imam Malik in the Mudawwana, asked whether people on the outskirts of Madinah who married their own sisters, mothers and daughters should be forcibly stopped, answering that it was their way of life and not to interfere, to argue that it is not one's place to intervene in others' lifestyles. He says he took the observation about nature from The Third Chimpanzee, and asks critics to tackle his actual arguments.

## Sources and names cited

- Imam Malik
- al-Mudawwana
- The Third Chimpanzee
- haram

## Transcript (machine tier, 54:49–1:04:21)

[54:48] So that's how that would have come about. All right. [clears throat] Muis Sab, do you agree on the uh anti-natalists? What are the what what do you mean by the antiatalists? Miy, you missed a super chat. Can you explain the miracle of Jesus making the birds of M? Sure, I will speak about I'm sure I've got a detailed video on that.

[55:15] By the way, uh somebody said, "I prefer Deali's Carlilele." Carlilele is nice. I do have Carlile over there as well, but it's to me that doesn't make the top league. It's it's quite oody quite it's good. It's good, but it's just not up there. Uh right. Um right amaran peeing [laughter]

[55:49] naughty naughty naughty naughty fetishes are fetishes people fetishes right so fetishes now look let me say something I'll I'll I'll explain this ruling here this look People People can't seem to make up their mind about me. [laughter] My my my haters, man. My haters. You see, on one hand, they claim that my arguments are stupid.

[56:20] They are baseless. They are so weak. They are easily refutable. easily like you know as far [laughter] ganguti beloved said that basically I'm like a child like I my thoughts my ideas are childlike in front of him [laughter] and this is how people you know on one hand this is how they portray me they say you know this guy his arguments are so dumb so weak So, you know, uh uh it's

[56:58] it's just a bundle of straw. But then, you see, if that be the case, like let's say I don't like somebody's views and they they're so easy to refute. I would steal man them. I would present them in the in exactly how he's saying them because they're so easy anyway to refute. And then I would smash them to smitherreens.

[57:24] But what you get is these same people then they completely straw man and present a distorted view which I'm not even saying in many in some cases I may be saying a part of that as part of a greater whole but they will kind of make it look so weak kind of cut and paste and then present them and say oh my god look MUI says this H and you know somebody shared there's a I don't know whether it's a tweet going on around or something but some people they

[58:03] cut and pasted uh parts of my comments or something put them together and said oh my god look what Mi is saying about incest. Okay. So, [laughter] so just to Okay. So, just to be clear what they're saying. So, and I'll come to this because it's kind of linked.

[58:28] So, on the incest thing, I had somebody message that MUI, do you say this about incest? They're saying MUI is saying incest is a totally natural thing to do. I've never said that in my life. I mean, I don't know. Like, if you're going to refute me, just refute me on what I actually say. Why are you making things up? Like, you're making things up and then refuting them.

[58:54] And I've never even said that ever. Like, I've never ever said anything like that. Not even remotely close. So what they've done is they've taken about homosexuality in the past and I've responded to the claim that where people said homosexuality is not natural. It's unnatural.

[59:18] So I've said that look even though in Islam you know for the for the most part most am consider homosexuality haram. However making a claim that it's unnatural is not scientifically backed because you know now you're making a statement about nature and nature is all around us in the world. So I have highlighted that look science does show that homosexuality does actually exist in most species in nature.

[59:50] It's not the dominating sexual practice but it exists in almost every species in nature. So to say the statement that homosexuality is not natural, it's not scientifically accurate and it's not a it's not to to make statements about nature is not the realm of religion. It's the realm of people who study nature which is science whether you're biologist or you study science other aspects of science.

[1:00:18] So this statement is wrong. However, you can say it's haram. You can say that's your belief and that's fine. So in this statement I'm saying that look homosexuality in the west is a practice of it's it's a it's a part of the way of life here and then I quote Imam Malik in saying that look I im Malik is asked and he is is a power within Medina and there are people who may be on the outskirts of Medina that he can forcefully take control of or interfere in their lives and he's asked they practice incest

[1:00:57] They marry their own sisters. They married their own mothers and daughters and they consider it fine. Like should we not intervene forcibly? This is the question. It's in the mud of Imam Malik. So Imam Malik says that's their way of life and we do not get involved. So I say look this was Imam Malik's uh response to a matter incest which we clearly consider I mean most traditions in the world clearly that's not practiced in the animal kingdom for what do you think about homosexuality and that is the way of

[1:01:36] life in these countries so it's not your place to be going around trying to intervene in other people's lifestyles now so what they've done is they've taken that sentence where I've said that look uh to say this is unnatural is uh you know it's not scientific because if you look in it's found in all species and then they've taken my statement that Imam Malik said we don't interfere in incest and they've put them together and made a screenshot and then just made this go viral or uh in their little circles to say oh my god Mui is saying

[1:02:13] that not only Should incest be allowed? [laughter] He's also alleging that this is it's everywhere in science in in nature, which it isn't. I mean, I'm the one that actually mentioned that. I mentioned the studies from the book, The Third Chimpanzeee. I did a review on it, right? So, I'm thinking, you know, people are messaging me this and saying, "Oh, Muy, did you say this?" And I'm saying, "Look, no, I didn't say that." And then they like had somebody kind of, oh, oh my god, you're so disgusting.

[1:02:46] Why would you say that? Uh, incest is people should be practicing incest. And I said, well, because I didn't say it. [laughter] But this is the, you know, like look at that. Like when people have to fabricate stuff about you to refute you, it just, it speaks volumes to me, man. That really speaks volumes.

[1:03:14] Um, right. So cool. Right. So yeah, so the these screenshots are not a true like I don't know obviously it's part of that discourse. So they've taken the part where I'm saying about Imam Malik and they've taken the part where I'm saying to say homosexuality is not is unnatural is inaccurate. But I'm not I don't use the I'm responding.

[1:03:40] So I say to to make the claim that it's unnatural is obviously it's it's unfounded in science because in nature it is present in most species. So they take that and they take the statement that I'm saying Imam Malik said not to interfere with incest and they're putting it together and they've got a a thing and they're just spreading it. And my point is look why don't you just tackle my actual arguments? You don't need to kind of make stuff up.

[1:04:05] I thought my arguments are so simple. just tackle them now. Coming to these uh fetishes, right? Look, I've said before and I stand by these things. Now, first of all, I'll come to the little context of this, but I'll give you just a generic rule that as I imam Malik's teacher said that what a couple do consenting between them is their business.

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment zZ85AUzeK5w/s/10. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zz85auzek5w/s/10/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.