# Apostasy: execution as divine policy, tribal loyalty and treason in wartime

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zbya7rqfyru/s/1/
- Date: 2016-03-15 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Ustadh Nouman Ali Khan & Mufti Abu Layth - A Discussion on Contemporary Issues (0:06–5:25)
- Status: a view quoted in order to be discussed, not a position held
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbyA7rqfyRU&t=6s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zbya7rqfyru/

**Topics:** Public law and governance; Orthodoxy and how Islam spread; Guest conversations

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The speakers present the execution of apostates as tied to wartime treason and tribal loyalty in early Arab society rather than to belief alone, and say the Quran should be the primary reference in the discussion.

## Longer summary

The recording opens mid-conversation with one speaker reporting a view, attributed to others, that apostates should be executed wherever found as the fulfilment of a divine sunnah, so that it is the policy of Allah towards the rebellious rather than a foreign policy of Islam; he adds that some contemporary speakers say the punishment applied only to that time. He summarises an author in America [?] who argues from the Quran that apostasy began as a strategy to create doubt, citing the verse in which the Jews propose to believe and then leave in order to unsettle the Muslims [?], so that threats were made to counter it. The other speaker, apparently the guest [?], adds that tribal identity was supreme in Arab society, that the Muslims had replaced it with a new loyalty, and that in the middle of an ongoing war leaving the community was a declaration of joining the other side, an act of treason, comparing it to renouncing citizenship in peacetime versus wartime in international law. The speakers say that those who leave are nonetheless answerable to Allah, criticise Islamic studies discourse for making the Quran a tertiary reference, and one calls illogical the reading that there is no compulsion only until one enters Islam [?]. The segment ends as one speaker begins to describe an argument he had with a scholar.

## Sources and names cited

- Nouman Ali Khan
- Quran 3:72 (believe at the start of the day and disbelieve at its end) [?] (reference uncertain; possibly https://quran.com/3/72)
- Quran 2:256 (no compulsion in religion) [?] (reference uncertain; possibly https://quran.com/2/256)

## Transcript (machine tier, 0:06–5:25)

[0:06] [Music] and so they should be executed wherever they they're found as part of the Fulfillment of divine sunah which means that is not the foreign policy of Islam towards mik it's actually the policy of Allah towards the rebellious in line with the sun of all the other prophets something similar to that is said by I think also people like T Swan and a few people who say the RDA they've said the RDA punishment was there but in that time only uh a few other contemporary but what is interesting is there's a I think is he

[0:44] lives in America that uh he's written a book on he has a very and he's got some YouTube videos on it as well very interesting actually he speaks about you see when R first begins how R was a strategy if you look at the Quran Allah is explaining that CU When a person abandon something it creates doubt like obviously like let's say you Embrace an ideology now and you're seen as an intelligent person a week later you leave it people think oh there must have been something wrong with that because you know this guy is intelligent like why would you leave it so making

[1:23] reference to the verse in the Quran when like the Y said where they say that let's [Music] that you see we will do this as an attempt to create that that's right so people will think that oh man these guys intelligent people there must be something wrong with this message and and some people have have seen that to counter that strategy there were threats made so that's one interpretation another I mean to add to that I think so tribal identity was Supreme in Arab

[1:59] Society yeah and uh well actually Kia is a pretty good indication that Muslim identity considered the Muslims who were sitting there from different tribes riff like once the fighting begins they're not going to be Val you because they have no tribal affination and then they come back testifying that so much as you know so much as he spits and they fight to cash the spit on the ground right so they they understood that loyalty has now changed now the thing is when you forgo your tribal identity in that Society you decare war against that tribe right and if youir G you're fair

[2:37] game now the Muslims are in that the um is the early um is in that ecosystem where your identity is with the people you're affiliated with and they've got a new it's not tribal now it's the it's the Shah walking out of that is actually especially in the middle of what is an ongoing war is actually a declaration it is an act of treat it is I have I'm joining the other side you know so like which is very similar to um you know under under peaceful circumstances in international law under peaceful circumstances a Canadian can say I forgo my Canadian citizenship I

[3:16] want to become an American oh whatever true but under war in times of War forgoing One citizenship is actually considered you know and you can like even military personel milary can forgo their citizenship under normal circumstances but in during times of War that's actually this is not something limited to like Islamic disc I mean it's like how the world Works what's still crazy as you say still against the

[3:58] of whole thing of Allah has mentioned those people who do this they they responsible they answerable to Allah Quran yeah you're talking about the real deal Quran was just talking about to what really IR me in sometimes in Islamic Studies uh discourse is how Quran is made this tertiary reference that that's not the real conversation the real conversation

[4:36] is what XY and Z the like glossy no it is so like this verse like a clear verse now think about this is this is the first must of that's the favorite thing to to by the way anybody has like a allergy the first thing they go after but and even to say okay there's no until you enter it that's still it's it's illogical is like to say that okay look I tell you what don't worry about you can Embrace if you want Oh but once you embrace

[5:15] it and so so this is the I had an interesting argument with a scholar that shall okay an entire discussion about how men have a degree over women actually that doesn't hold the AY begins

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment zbyA7rqfyRU/s/1. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zbya7rqfyru/s/1/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.