# Why does the Quran tell the same story in different ways? *Sacred time and archetypal stories: Lot and the golden calf told two ways* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zasz48lx_wi/s/20/ - Date: 2020-12-11 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Dr Javad T. Hashmi | Axis of Morality & Archetypal Myths in the Quran | MindTrap 46 |Mufti Abu Layth (1:20:23–1:24:52) - Status: a view quoted in order to be discussed, not a position held - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsz48lX_WI&t=4823s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zasz48lx_wi/ **Topics:** Stories of the prophets; How to read the Quran **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says the Quran's stories are set in sacred, not historical, time and follow archetypes that speak to the Prophet's own circumstances, which is why the same story, such as Lot's or the golden calf, is told differently. ## Longer summary The guest says the Quranic stories are set not in historical time but in what scholars of religion call sacred time and sacred place, without centuries or geography, where useless details are left out and the rules are different from the 'one damn thing after another' of ordinary time. He says they follow archetypal patterns, such as the punishment stories in which a prophet is sent, mocked and rejected, is distressed and consoled, and the people are destroyed, and that they are really about the Prophet Muhammad's own situation. That is why, he says, the same story is told differently: the angels reveal themselves to Lot beforehand in one telling and not in another, and the golden calf story ends with mercy in one version and punishment in another. He says these are neither contradictions, as orientalists and missionaries claim, nor things to be reconciled by textual acrobatics, but reflect the different moments in the Prophet's mission and his relations with the People of the Book. ## Sources and names cited - Dr Javad T. Hashmi (guest) - Lut (Lot) - the golden calf of the Israelites - Ahl al-Kitab (People of the Book) ## Transcript (machine tier, 1:20:23–1:24:52) [1:19:49] that's what they would imagine so so okay so now we have buyin that yes those I mean those things I think would be and I think that's by the way for people who are open to interpretations that's s I think that's quite simply palatable because once you say look the afterlife is something which is beyond human comprehension then obviously you the the fact that the Quran will give some form of of an imagery approximation to entice people just makes sense but stories are something of this world. [1:20:22] Yes. Okay. I get that. So yeah, what? Okay, so first of all, it's important to keep in mind they're not literally of this world. They're part of sacred time and sacred place. That is different than historical time that we live in now. Okay? So if you look at the Quranic stories, they don't give us any detail about what uh century they occurred in. Um they don't give us many they don't give us geographical details. [1:20:49] They exist in an ahistorical sacred time and sacred place. Why? Why sacred? Because so this is terms that uh scholars in the study of religion use. Okay. Um but what it means to say it's not normal time in the sense that what is normal time? Normal time in normal place means that so you're in a normal place right now. You have something flying above you, right? [1:21:15] In like like that wasn't ideal, right? when you had that plane fly above your your your private jet that interfered that interfered in our conversation. Now I have a question. If you were telling us it might be it might be angels actually think [laughter] so we don't have to talk about that too but all right so now let's say you are telling if the Quran is telling a story of a past prophets do you think it would just give a detail of a plain flu you even hypothetically speaking that some it wouldn't give these useless details that don't help with the uh the moral of the story this is what we mean by a sacred time [1:21:53] and a sacred face. All right. Uh the rules are different. In regular time and place, uh things just happen one damn thing after another. That's what regular time is. In sacred time and sacred place, it's different rules. It's special. So if we look at the uh stories of the Quran, what do we notice? We notice that they all follow certain archetypal patterns. [1:22:19] For example, we have these punishment stories. All of the stories are the exact same kind of arc. There was a prophet that was sent to the people. The people mocked the prophet, disbelieved in him and rejected him. That prophet would be distressed by the disbelief of his people and their rejection. God would come and give that prophet solace and then finally he would destroy those people. [1:22:44] Right? This story repeats itself over and over and over again. Why? Because what is the Quran actually doing when it's narrating these stories? This is archetypal because it's place it's actually talking about the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him. Okay? It's actually talking about the prophet and that's why the same story can actually be narrated in different ways even though it's talking about the same character and the same event. [1:23:14] So for example, in the story of Lot, the story is narrated in two different ways at least. In one in one story, the angels actually inform Lot beforehand that they're angels sent from God. In the others, they don't do that and he's surprised and he and he's surprised by that fact. Now, if you were an orientalist or you were somebody trying to a missionary, Christian missionary, you would say, look at this discrepancy. The Quran is just uh has these contradictions in it. [1:23:42] These are not contradictions. Neither should we seek to reconcile them like many traditionalists do to say, "Oh, we can explain this away and use certain textual acrobatics and move this away." No. What we say is these two stories were revealed at two different times in the prophetic in the prophet's life and they were sent for a different purpose due to the contingencies of the prophet's own time. So for example, there's a story in the Quran about when the Israelites worshiped the golden calf and they were uh and that story is narrated in one of the versions of the story. [1:24:17] The the story ends with God's mercy and forgiveness where God turns in mercy and forgiveness to the people the uh bunny is in another version of this story. The story ends with punishment and it doesn't have anything about the doors of mercy being open. Why is that? that's based on the relationship of the prophet at that specific time with the people of the book in his time. [1:24:43] So what the Quran is actually doing in a literary way, it's talking about the uh these past figures and talking about the present. Now I know I've beaten around the bush a little bit, but are you so let's note I was going to say that beating around the bush. So I the Israelites, let's take them as an example since you've mentioned them now. Were they because somebody would ask that do you feel that they are uh fictitious the Israelites or were they a real is this real stories that have been dramatized or are they fictitious events? ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment ZAsz48lX_WI/s/20. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/zasz48lx_wi/s/20/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.