# Which civil war did early Muslims mean by 'the fitnah'? *Mufti Abu Layth on which civil war the early generations called 'the fitnah'* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/w6tqwuuumcg/s/2/ - Date: 2020-10-27 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #188 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (7:47–12:11) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6TqWuUumCg&t=467s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/w6tqwuuumcg/ **Topics:** Succession and the first civil wars; Umayyads and Abbasids **Question as asked:** Which civil war was being referred to when he said they would not ask before the fitnah occurred? Did he not die around a decade before the third fitnah? **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says it is often unclear which civil war early scholars meant by 'the fitnah', as several upheavals were each called the great one. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the numbering of the early fitnahs is sometimes quite arbitrary, and not everybody agrees on which they call the greatest. **Evidence, his words at 8:24:** “sometimes it's quite arbitrary it's not a a clear you know not everybody's in agreement in what they call the greatest fitnner” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6TqWuUumCg&t=504s) ## Longer summary A chat question asks which civil war was meant when an early figure spoke of what people did before 'the fitnah', noting that he died about a decade before the third fitnah. Mufti Abu Layth says it is not always clear which upheaval the early generations meant, since numbering them is sometimes arbitrary. He lists candidates: the murder of Uthman, after which things began to go downhill; Husayn's death, though Husayn was not a military threat to the state; the crushing of Abdullah ibn al-Zubayr, whose territory once outnumbered the state's, along with the bombardment of the Kaaba; Yazid's army being unleashed on Medina; the rebellion of Ibn al-Ash'ath [?] against al-Hajjaj, in which many scholars fought; and the uprising of Zayd ibn Ali [?]. ## Sources and names cited - fitnah - the murder of Uthman - Uthman ibn Affan - Husayn ibn Ali - Karbala - Abdullah ibn al-Zubayr - Kaaba - Yazid ibn Muawiya - Yazid's army against Medina (al-Harrah) - Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Ash'ath [?] - al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf [?] - Zayd ibn Ali [?] - Umayyads ## Transcript (machine tier, 7:47–12:11) [7:46] Right. So Zed says which civil war was referring to when he said they would not ask uh before the fitna occurred. Didn't he die around a decade before the third fitna? I'm not sure what fitna you're referring to. You see it's difficult sometimes like they you know in the time of the salv they would say the fitna like the great unrest the the kind of turbulence what exactly are they referring to as as the first one as the [8:24] second one as the third one sometimes it's quite arbitrary it's not a a clear you know not everybody's in agreement in what they call the greatest fitnner Um so so for example um [clears throat] some people refer to the fitna of man with the murder of man as one of the great fitnas because following his murder everything just goes downhill almost or it begins at least to go downhill. [8:59] Some people may consider the uh fitna of Hussein uh as maybe as the first fitna or at least the great fitna because of what happened. Some people may refer to uh Abdullahbn Zub's martyrdom as the great fitna because after that what happens is the any true opposition is kind of crushed. [9:28] Uh because even though Hussein goes up north, I've covered that in my segment on Kbala. He Hussein isn't really a um a strong opposition to the state. He's maybe he's a strong personality uh you know a very powerful personality. He is unquestionably but he's not actually from a military perspective a real threat. [9:56] He may be ideologically a threat but he's not a military threat there and then like he doesn't have a state under him and things like this. Whereas Abdullahbn Zub does he has at one point the the land which is in his obedience or that pledge and allegiance to him is far greater that territorially speaking he outnumbers the actual state. [10:21] So when he's crushed that is a huge fitna for people. Plus, it's the attacking of the Kaa. They catapult the Kaa. Some people consider that uh the when Yazid unleashes the army on Medina. Often not spoken about, but that is often deemed the a great fitna. So, people use that. Then there's also in um there's a rebellion of uh Abdman Ash uh against [11:00] the Omeayads but primarily against Yusf and by extension the state. He's a governor of Iraq. During that rebellion, um many great people, many great uh many great scholars of the Cele, you know, they partake in that uprising, which is interesting because usually a lot of the scholars don't partake in the wars. [11:31] Uh but here they do clearly. I mean there's like a substantial number of the people fighting were people scholar of the scholarly class which usually never happens. Uh so that is deemed by some and and they almost win you know it gets to the point that the Omeaya dynasty dynasts feel that they've lost this this war but then suddenly it the vicissitudes of fate people it swings back and and and then there's the you know the Imam Zade thing is considered you know the the that war zin [12:10] is consider so it's not clear which war people like great war this great unrest scholars are sometimes referring to because in their mind they have like one two three but that might refer to different ones so yeah I hope that helps and then obviously as time goes by there's other great calamities as well um right what is your ah right where's that question gone right oh here it is rock black says what is your advice on healing the inner child and also what is your advice on growing ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment w6TqWuUumCg/s/2. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/w6tqwuuumcg/s/2/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.