# How do we know the Quran is the word of God, if not by reason?

*A debate on 'revelation above reason': how do you know the Quran is from God?*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/uuldzklvxvo/s/6/
- Date: 2018-04-09 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: The Role Of Reason In Religion - Mufti Abu Layth (28:45–36:33)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuLDZkLvxvo&t=1725s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/uuldzklvxvo/

**Topics:** Reason and revelation; Atheism and the existence of God; Dawah and debate culture

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Arguments that the Quran is true because it says so, is unlike other books, is eloquent or flawless, or speaks of rain and fruit are no stronger than a spiderweb, Mufti Abu Layth says; without reason one only believes Islam is true because one was told.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says that arguments for the Quran's truth which rest on the book asserting its own truth, its uniqueness, its eloquence, its lack of mistakes or its verses about rain and fruit are no stronger than a spiderweb, and that revelation can only be known to be true through reason.

**Evidence, his words at 36:19:** “if that's what you're building your faith on that is weaker than a spiderweb as Allah says in the Quran” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuLDZkLvxvo&t=2179s)

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth recounts a recent discussion with someone who disliked his talk of going back to reason and said that in Islam reason is respected but revelation stands above it as the arbiter. He calls this an appeal to emotion built on what Sherman Jackson calls false universals, phrases that sound good but mean little, casting him as favouring reason over God. Setting the emotion aside, he asked how his interlocutor knew revelation to be the word of God. He reports the answers and his replies: that the book says it is the truth, to which he answered that the Vedas and the Bible say the same; that it is unlike any other book, which every scripture claims; that its Arabic is of unfathomable eloquence, to which he replied that his interlocutor did not fathom it himself and that most of mankind, including most of the roughly three hundred million Arabs, could never know it to be true on that basis; that it contains no mistakes, to which he said neither does Harry Potter, and that atheists in any case allege discrepancies such as a day being fifty thousand years in one place and a thousand in another; and finally that its verses of majesty, such as Allah sending down rain and bringing forth fruit, are so evident, which he said anyone could say. He concludes that a faith built on such arguments is weaker than a spiderweb, which the Quran calls the weakest of homes.

## Sources and names cited

- Sherman Jackson
- Quran 29:41 (the weakest of homes is the spider's; verse not numbered by him) [?] (reference uncertain; possibly https://quran.com/29/41)

## Transcript (machine tier, 28:45–36:33)

[28:35] any sense so but people scholars get really wound up on what I got into a debate recently as a surprisingly I mean for somebody like me to get into debated discussions completely out of character right so got into this discussion with somebody is more discussion debate kind of thing there's no hard feelings obviously not on my end anyway I always it's always fun and games so this person says to me oh I don't like all of the scholar this scholar general don't like all this kind of talk that you're doing of things

[29:14] going back to reason he said in Islam we do accept reason we respect it but above reason there is something reason is not the end of like it's not the arbitrator above reason there's other things so I said really like what they said like dude like revelation why you care so obviously you know apostates like me we struggle to remember these things so the so I said oh okay that's in you see that this is a typical kind of fallacy going on here for a moment just posing that

[29:54] story this is one of those things an appeal to emotion it's very easy to say certain things that sound nice these are what like you know almost like what dr. Sherman Jackson refers to us like false universals like when people say things like which everybody likes the sound of but nobody truly like when you say things like oh I love freedoms but freedom can mean many like what is freedom exactly exactly mean because you can't just you know like there's all kinds of limitations within society what does freedoms mean but these are like false universals which sometimes give

[30:33] off an understanding that this sound nice but when you what exactly are you talking so when you say Oh to me supreme is revelation sounds nice to Muslims Allah this person look at this person submitting to Allah in Medina in the Lyla slam-it submission if only you know if and it sounds like the other person's being arrogant this is what it sounded puts me in the arrogant seat which are obviously I'm not used to my humble self it sounds like the other person is trying to favor God and I'm trying to favor reason this is what it sounds like doesn't it so they kind of like setting me up

[31:11] so I said oh okay that's interesting so so put that emotional appeal to emotion aside there isn't revelation what he is above all Allah you got to get him to that you know in that mold when he's talking about why he so I said okay so I said so how do you know the revelation to be the true Word of God how do you know it to be the truth he thought Dewey says Allah says that you know this is the truth has come from me that this is the hawk and we've sent down the hawk come we've done this we've

[31:49] done that I said ah so let me get this right you know the book is true because the book says it's true so how is that different from any other book like Hindus books they say the Vedas say they're the truth the Bible says it's the truth everything says it's the truth they said yeah but this isn't like any other book I said what their books say exactly the same thing this book isn't like any other book so how do you know that that's actually the truth so he said well ah but I know this because

[32:28] this has got majestic next level level expert super expert level of Arabic it's the adjust the the kind of uniqueness the unfathomable kind of eloquence of the Arabic language I said do you truly fathom all the Bulava of the Quran he said no I don't I said well okay this was approximately 300 million Arabic speaking people in the world probably approximately Arabs yeah 300 million aprox now I said okay out of 8 billion people of mankind 300 million Arabs

[33:07] most of whom don't appreciate that level of Arabic so this is a fraction of them so basically what you're saying is the majority the mankind could never know this is the true Word of God because they don't understand that heightened level of our week because well no I'm not saying that this doesn't have any mistakes in it I said but neither does Harry Potter Harry Potter doesn't have any mistakes in it doesn't make it the Word of God all of a sudden arguably I said to him arguably atheists would say well you guys do have some discrepancies in the Quran where it says a one day according to your Lord is fifty thousand

[33:46] years or one day according to your Lord is ten thousand and then you guys have to do that wheel but Harry Potter isn't even gonna have that because just a novel so it's just a story so so he said yeah so you never said yeah he was like obviously fuming so he said look apart from obviously giving me the sympathy that you know I'm losing obviously going down a very dangerous road he said to me I said I'm waiting like how do you know the Quran to read you're saying the Quran is the ultimate but how do you know the Quran is the word of God apart

[34:26] from saying because somebody told me so because this just means you don't know Islam to be true you simply believe it to be true because somebody told you he goes no because the verses in the Quran that contained a laws Majesty are so evident so I said okay I said come on then like like what like what would you say so give me an example said like Allah says in the Quran that we have sent down rain and fruits have grown and come forth and the earth has you know it's brought forth fruits and harvest

[35:02] and so I say alright so let me get this right so you know so you're saying the ultimate this is why this book has to be true because it look I'm just being objective because you're refusing to go with what Allah has as far as I'm concerned even Allah tells you in the Quran that look go and use reason but okay let's go with your arguing you know this is the truth because one it says it's the truth - it doesn't have any mistakes contradictions contradictions but then I've said so do all these stories don't

[35:39] have contradictions okay you said it's not like any other book I've said well all these other books say they're not like any other books and then you said well because it's an amazing error week which most of us don't understand anyway 95% of the world probably doesn't understand so okay that's and then I said well and let me get this right it must be the truth because you're saying God said oh we sent down rain and brought forth fruit and harvest which nobody but God could obviously say that because only everybody knows that like this is your argument are you are you

[36:19] being serious I mean this is so if that's what you're building your faith on that is weaker than a spiderweb as Allah says in the Quran that the weakest of abode is that of a spiderweb when Oh Hannibal buttes lobby to Lanka but-- i said look if you want to build your iman on that then that's fine that's that kind of tolerated level of islam but don't you try to knock people who want to believe islam with certainty like why are you trying to stop them and

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment UuLDZkLvxvo/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/uuldzklvxvo/s/6/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.