# Will there be a video on the Zaydi and Ibadi sects?

*Zaydis and Ibadis, and the triangulation method on the Kaaba's location*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/s/6/
- Date: 2020-08-04 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti Abu Layth #176 *Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted!* 🤣 (20:06–26:44)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR4-gh0qEZ4&t=1206s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/

**Topics:** Umayyads and Abbasids; Responses to critics; Sects, sectarianism and takfir

**Question as asked:** Will there be a talk or a video about the Zaydi and the Ibadi sects?

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says the agreement of Sunnis, Shia and Ibadis, who would never have conspired together, supports the Kaaba being where it always was.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the Sunnis, the Shia and the Ibadis, who cannot tolerate each other, would never have co-conspired over the original Kaaba and would have exposed each other.

**Evidence, his words at 25:43:** “they would never have agreed like they you know cannot tolerate each other. Um so they would never have co-conspired to arrive at the original Kaa.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR4-gh0qEZ4&t=1543s)

## Longer summary

Asked whether he will do a talk on the Zaydi and Ibadi sects, Mufti Abu Layth says he needs to develop his learning on the Ibadis, who have recently interested him because of the triangulation method for reaching reasonable certainty about early Islam. Mufti applies it to the revisionist claim that the Umayyads moved the centre of Islam from Petra to Mecca, saying Dan Gibson and others have done a good job in raising tough questions about early mosque orientations and early sources calling the Kaaba 'Shami'. Mufti refers viewers to his detailed video answering them, summarising points about old foundations, constellations and the Nabataeans as a mercantile empire, and loose pre-Islamic Arab identity. Mufti says the Sunnis, the Shia and the Ibadis, who cannot tolerate each other, would never have co-conspired over the original Kaaba, and calls this a powerful method.

## Sources and names cited

- Ibadi
- Zaydi
- Kaaba
- the Petra thesis
- Dan Gibson
- Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan

## Transcript (machine tier, 20:06–26:44)

[19:40] You're doing it. You're doing it. Um right. So I hope that makes much sense. Uh, somebody saying I don't know what that's in reference to, right? Let's see. Allah Allah Allah who what's going down?

[20:06] Let's Okay, we've answered that question. Phillip says, "Will Mui do a talk or a video about the Zadi and the Ibadi sect?" [snorts] Sure. I mean, not uh [laughter] it's not like it's against my religion to talk about them. [laughter] I will I just feel that uh to do something.

[20:32] Let me you know the ibadis I don't I need to develop my learning more on them. So let me it's actually been an area of interest for me recently um with so with certain matters of faith as the triangulation method to arrive at reasonable certainty.

[20:56] [laughter] So part of um in early Islam we know certain things to be true based on this approach. I feel that um things like um the Makkah question. How do we know that Abd Malik Marwan did not change the Kaa as the some Islam revisionists claim?

[21:24] So they claim Islam was sorry not Islam the prophet was in Petra [snorts] and the uh you know the Omeaya dynasty changed you know arguably Abdul Malik or maybe his son Wed they changed the uh the the place of the center of Islam to al hij and to Makkah because they had some relatives there and things like this.

[21:50] Now you see with this the reason you know uh this cannot be true and I've got a very detailed video answering uh Dan Gibson's and I feel Dan Gibson and these people have done a very good job to be honest because it is look it is their job to bring the toughest questions and I won't lie I thought it was a very tough question looking at the evidences is looking at the massagid, the early kiblas, the you know uh Dan Gibson brings I think is it 60 something early

[22:30] massaged foundations pointing more towards Petra uh than they are towards Mecca and showing a systematic you know an overall which rises above the probability factor and and then I've provided a response in addition to why do some of the early Muslim sources refer to the cabba as the shami um so thea from sham so even in I believe it's in Bkari as well but it's in other books I do quote it where they say which is Makkah they but why are they referring to it as that then and this

[23:09] supports it seems to at face value extend support to what Dan Gibson and these people are saying so so yours truly has answered these questions [laughter] even though they they may have been perceived as unanswerable but unanswerable for others but

[23:37] I I've answered them so you can check it out. I give my response in much detail about I go into the role of Jose uh you know one of the ancestors of the prophet in this and the biographical account tying in all of this and why potentially some of these masids may have been pointing to Petra. So that's a uh very detailed kind of response.

[24:03] I mean I'm wouldn't do it justice here but briefly I explain how um foundations of place of worship are often built upon other foundations and how old world sites are aligned with constellations and things like this and it's easy for certain or it's easier for certain people to navigate in light of those constellations and the Nabotian were a uh a commas empire uh a merkantile empire by an empire of commerce and business and they had roots as far as China.

[24:38] Um, so I I go into much more detail the explaining how it's very likely because they were Arab u [clears throat] they were Arab in the sense that they were off that same kind of genetic makeup. But I don't think they necessarily identified as this Arab identity is quite loose pre-Islam. It's very like it's there, but how much of a bond do they feel they have with other people?

[25:07] It's not so clear. Maybe they didn't have as much of a bond as later Arabs forged a bond. Especially through Islam and through these things, the bond became much stronger uh and an identity was shaped. So the early Arabs, even though they were Arabs, they may not have identified as they may have identified just as Byzantines or as the Nabotians as Nabotans. Um, you know, some of the others may be more with the Sassinids, but even though they were Arab ethnically or or similarish to Arabs, whatever that means.

[25:43] So yeah, so I explained that there, but you can check it out. But one of the methods to support that was this triangulation method of how could it be that the Sunni, the Shia and the Ibadi or the who are today the Ibadis would agree on the like they would never have agreed like they you know cannot tolerate each other. Um so they would never have co-conspired to arrive at the original Kaa.

[26:15] They would have exposed each other definitely and this is actually a very powerful message uh a method to identify certain things in early Islam. Cool. Hope that makes some sense. What's going down? Yara, your channel on YouTube is still waiting but caught you here. Is it still waiting?

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment TR4-gh0qEZ4/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/s/6/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.