# How common is sexual abuse in madrasas?

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/s/15/
- Date: 2020-08-04 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti Abu Layth #176 *Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted!* 🤣 (1:14:42–1:23:35)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR4-gh0qEZ4&t=4482s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/

**Topics:** Cults, clergy and religious abuse; Education, madrasas and seminaries

**Question as asked:** How common is sexual abuse in the madrasa?

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth says abuse in madrasas is far more common outside the West and is often taken lightly; he would never send young boys to a madrasa in Pakistan.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says he would never recommend that young boys go to a madrasa in Pakistan.

**Evidence, his words at 1:19:23:** “This is why I would never recommend for young boys young um to ever go to a madrasa in Pakistan ever. Ever.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR4-gh0qEZ4&t=4763s)

## Longer summary

Asked how common sexual abuse is in madrasas, Mufti Abu Layth says it is not unheard of in the West but far more common elsewhere, such as Pakistan, and that madrasa attitudes to it are strangely lax compared with the outrage that would follow a student shaving his beard. Mufti says that in the UK a culture of exposing and reporting abuse has developed, though late. Mufti says he would never recommend that young boys go to a madrasa in Pakistan, though grown men of about nineteen or twenty would be fine. Mufti recounts reporting the sexualised treatment of a younger student as a student himself, being met with a threat to tell the boys he had reported, and later learning that the abuse had escalated.

## Sources and names cited

- madrasa

## Transcript (machine tier, 1:14:42–1:23:35)

[1:14:17] Ask what to a beautiful mind was a beautiful movie. It was actually it was an amazing movie. Um was Abd in the reception [laughter] Abdar? It was a don though. I got to give it.

[1:14:42] So uh Mui How much you make? How much I make? How much I make as in cha-ching or how much I make in something else? How common is sex? How common? Let's go to that question. Everything on hold. On hold. It's a question about Islam.

[1:15:09] [laughter] See, see what is uh uh preont. What? Oh, damn. Has he disappeared? Oh, no. Have I lost the question? See, I'm trying to uh trying to go back. How common? Mary Mary Marin Marina.

[1:15:38] Huh? How how how common is how common is sexual abuse? Aa acha. That's how you lure them in. [laughter] How common is sexual abuse in the madrasa? Yeah, it's very unfortunate. These things are common. Uh very unfortunate. But yeah, the I mean depends when you say common and what countries in the in the west.

[1:16:05] I think it's it's not unheard of in the west, but it's not going to be as common as in other parts of the world. So, here as well, I'm pretty sure there were certain cases that were going on. I think now they've probably uh clamping down more on this, but you know, unfortunately the Madrasa attitude towards this kind of sexual abuse isn't all that like their attitudes often are like well, you know, believe it or not, it's actually quite strangely uh like their attitude towards like if you like so for example, if they

[1:16:43] found out a student shaved his beard off, you'd see the four horsemen of the apocalypse outside the gate. It would all hell [laughter] and with them followed hell. That's how you're going to see all hell break loose. There's going to be they would go mad.

[1:17:10] I mean, they they would take it as there would be a personal rage. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the teachers has a heart attack and dies. [laughter] And God forbid somebody shaved their beard and put an earring on there, you know, two of the teachers would drop dead with [laughter] and three others would develop blood pressure. That's the the kind of that's on the that's like that's like in the lowest pit of hellfire.

[1:17:42] And if there was they found out oh you know somebody's done something to another another one of the students sexual abuse or somebody let's say a teacher although in this country I I'm not so sure whether the teachers are up to it as much as in other countries uh because they're probably now there's a culture to catch people and do you know to kind of um expose them and to report them and which thank god I I mean even though it's so late but there is a culture but in the other parts of the world like let's say the teachers are up to it

[1:18:20] or the students are definitely it's it's not uncommon in other parts of the world at all like in places like Pakistan. So their their reaction to this will be like ah okay well we'll look into it. [laughter] It's not a laughing matter, but that's how they, you know, their reaction is. I'm I'm kind of like when you compare that with the other one, honestly, if you were in Bakistan or in one of those madrasas and you shaved your beard off, I mean, you couldn't even think of putting something like an like it would literally be, you know, the

[1:18:58] hadith [laughter] that the final hour would descend right there. It would it would happen. this is it. It would be all hell would break loose. So yeah, so they don't take it that seriously unfortunately which is I mean unfortunately doesn't do justice to the word. Um but yeah that's that's a sad state of affairs.

[1:19:23] This is why I would never recommend for young boys young um to ever go to a madrasa in Pakistan ever. Ever. I would never let somebody I knew go to a madrasa in Pakistan. That tobat that that that would be like that that that would be unimaginable.

[1:19:46] But if they were a grown man like you know like somebody who is now 20 years old, 19 that kind of age or above then fine then they would be fine like that. But yeah, right. So, what is going on? [snorts] Yeah, it's a shame. It's a shame. Zeba saying uh Toba Toba. Yeah, it's a shame.

[1:20:11] You know, and I and you know the shocking thing is I remember in Madrasa I went and once complained about certain things going on and they dismissed me and in fact, you know, ironically, they kind of put me in trouble for it. It was like, okay, I never got into much trouble, but they but I could have, but me being me, seriously, like they I saw certain things going on which weren't right.

[1:20:39] And I reported them. I said that look, there's uh you know what the hell's going on here with between the this cohort of people, the way they treat this younger guy amongst them. And because they used to be very kind of sexual in their connotations towards him. And do you know what they did? They were just p that particular person was just pissed off. The teacher I went to is pissed off with me for I don't know what.

[1:21:06] And he said, "Oh, so you you know you think basically, oh, you think you're you know something like oh coming and reporting? Oh, so you think this is like you're a better person coming and and I'm like I'm telling you guys so you can do something about it." He's like, "Okay, now how are you going to feel when I go and tell those guys that you came and reported them?" So, I was like, "Uh, sorry.

[1:21:35] Do do I look scared to you? [laughter] You can go tell them and their dad." And I thought, "You think do I look bothered that you're going to tell them?" I was like, "Go tell them." So this teacher gets up, goes over to those bunch of guys where they were and tells them that do you know he's reported you guys for this?

[1:21:57] I said and [laughter] like I mean what do I do do I look bothered? I said to him I'm telling you so you can do the sensible thing right it it you know you can you're the goddamn supervisor you ought to intervene and you ought to kind of place safeguarding. what do you want me to go, you know, like do vigilante practice here? Like how you've got a system in place and I'm telling you that look, this doesn't look right and you're in turn trying to threaten me.

[1:22:27] And I thought and then do you know later on it re uh it transpired that they did go on to seriously abuse that guy and sexually and stuff like this and and it's a shame because I I mean I found out much after that oh that actually then happened as well later on but I you know it's it was like I actually told several you know at that time I told that teacher he didn't listen I told someone else uh they said okay we'll look into it.

[1:22:57] But this is the attitude unfortunately you know may Allah make things easy. I mean and there were one or two other occasions where we found out and say that you know because this guy I mean this this particular kid I mean he was a British kid and somebody you know some wrongan had you know tried it on with him and everything and so he came to us told us so we did we had to have some nice words with that person and you know, but this is this is the

[1:23:34] problem, you know. So, yeah, but yeah, ch [laughter] I I digress. I digress. Let's get back to Isaka sent a super chat. Please contact Daji HT in my country has grown rapidly. Yeah, sure. I mean, I'm, you know, I don't respect his at all. I think they are a cancer in this ummah.

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment TR4-gh0qEZ4/s/15. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/tr4-gh0qez4/s/15/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.