# What happened when Shaykh Atabek wrote to Mufti Taqi Usmani about mortgages?

*The open letter to Mufti Taqi Usmani on mortgages and the reaction to it*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/8/
- Date: 2021-01-29 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Shaykh Atabek Shukurov | Mortgages, Madhabs & Molvi-ism | MindTrap 48 | Mufti Abu Layth (33:53–39:38)
- Status: a view quoted in order to be discussed, not a position held
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtwyWCa2-pQ&t=2033s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/

**Topics:** Riba, mortgages and loans; Views on contemporary scholars

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says his respectful open letter to Mufti Taqi Usmani on mortgages got no reply, only an abusive reaction from students, which he does not think the mufti ordered.

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth asks about the open letter the guest wrote. The guest says that after explaining his mortgage view in a lecture around 2008 or 2009 he was told many scholars call it haram, and found that the fatwa came mainly from Mufti Taqi Usmani [?], whom he calls the main jurist of Islamic finance in the Hanafi school today and whom he respects as a fatherly, caring figure with an undeniable service to students. He says he tried to raise the issue with him in person at a dinner gathering of scholars, but a teacher interrupted, and he was asked to send his profile instead. Saying that approaching muftis is hard because of protocol and intermediaries with their own agendas, he wrote a short, respectful open letter, still on his blog, and heard from two sources that it was placed on the mufti's desk. He says there was no reply, but that people he describes as first- or second-generation students responded harshly and abusively, which he does not think the mufti ordered.

## Sources and names cited

- Shaykh Atabek Shukurov (guest)
- Mufti Taqi Usmani [?]
- Darul Uloom Karachi
- fatwa

## Transcript (machine tier, 33:53–39:38)

[33:13] You know, for example, someone goes to the pub, [laughter] okay? And then me and you, me and you will say, "Look, everyone knows that pub sells alcohol." No, no, no. Beside alcohol, they also sell, for example, potato, mashed potato. Understand? So, just because one of their products is unlawful in Islam, it does not mean that the other products are also unlawful. Do you understand? So mortgage and loan it's two separate thing definitely they give loan some of them are but some of them are not ribba okay but also they do mortgage so mortgage is okay and and this was something you

[33:52] wrote an open letter to if am I am I mixing that up that's what I recall so yeah yeah yeah it was uh so what what what's that all about how did that go yes so basically uh basically it was um was it 2008 or 2009 maybe during the during the lecture I did clarify because they have asked me about the mortgage so I have clarified whatever we were discussing now for example and then they said no you know there is big number of scholars they said it is haram so then I just went into um um into just

[34:32] looking into the scholars who said you know whatever ever they have presented and the main person washmani okay and as far as I know he is the person who is known to be the main uh jurist okay of Islamic finances based on school in our time he's the main person okay so then I understood that this fatwa is mainly coming from yeah obviously I do respect him okay because he's on the age of my father.

[35:06] Okay. And also his service to Islam and for the students is just undeniable. Okay. Of course. Um you have been in Darum in Karach. I visited I visited it. It's a great they've got a massive place people here. Yeah. When I used to study there it was you know it was yet building you know it was not finished but yet it was good. It was still very comfortable. So so anyway he's very glorious person. Okay. in terms of like looking after the uh students.

[35:34] He has that father character. Okay. So very kind and very loving and caring for the students. So I love him and respect him. Okay. So on that way I have written an open letter. But before that I saw him I met him in person and it was 200 uh I think 2008 I would say. Mhm.

[35:58] Uh 2008 or nine. Yet we used to do this um channel. Do you know uh your question answered YQA? We used to do it. It was 2008 or 2009 most likely. Yeah. So then I met him in um in Blackburn Darlum. Okay. Okay. And it was just very tight uh gathering of the amanas and we had that dinner. So in in that uh in that meeting I just approached him. Okay. So I just wanted to talk to him about this issue just to just to clarify what I'm saying and just to have his opinion.

[36:30] Okay. But then um uh one of the uh teachers of the Darlum interrupted. Okay. Saying oh um it's not good to talk about these issues. Now we he's our guest and we are having food and letting you understand that and then after the after the meal misab said just send me your profile where you have studied etc and just send it to me and based on that I will have a look okay but obviously you know how difficult to approach the mutis you know it's very difficult yeah yeah yeah yeah so much so much protocol and and all that kind of stuff yeah yeah yeah and also um each scholar

[37:08] in our time there will people in in between. Okay. So they will have their own you know agendas agendas etc. Yeah. So that's why I I said I have no any other way but except you know writing this open letter and open letter is still available on my blog. So I said shab I really respect you. I I really appreciate whatever you have done for the Muslims and especially for the students etc.

[37:34] uh and with regards to the uh mortgage uh I just wanted to present my point of view and I want to uh I want to know what you would say and then I have presented very short maybe I don't know um uh two pages A4 format maybe very short text but but but then um and then uh uh um I have got confirmation that uh um uh through two different sources that my letter was uh uh you know placed on the table of the you know twice.

[38:08] Okay. Wow. Did he did he ever respond? No. No. But then his students I don't know if it's his direct students and I'm not really sure if he asked uh them to get involved. Um the response was quite unacceptable. Okay. you are doing this. Yeah, it's quite uh but I appreciate because it's the same problem Mutis as we mentioned you know the culture is to be religion so if you challenge them on that you are challenging not the culture you're challenging the religion exactly reaction yeah reaction was quite uh uh and then non like um you know after reading whatever they have written

[38:47] okay um so I I I thought it's do you know this prank prank do you know prank Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I thought it's just prank on me. Okay. Okay. And so after this they will say ah yeah we just we were just joking [laughter] but it was serious. They were serious you know. Oh how come that you just um for me it didn't make a sense. Okay. The the reaction it was very harsh.

[39:12] because from the scholars you know um and um it was I think um from the first generation students of Muisab or maybe second generation but I don't think it was Muisab ordered them to do it. Okay. But the reaction was quite emotional and um abusive. They were using uh strange language actually. I think it's still available there.

[39:37] Okay. So oh heretic making that speaking of culture do you think though in all honesty somebody like Miyaki even if even if let's say he read Mui Taki read your thing and felt that you know this makes you know what he thinks that you know what he's actually speaking a bit of sense let's say or it makes sense do you think he could ever be in a position to publicly ever say that because don't you think people would go mad if he said something like that?

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment rtwyWCa2-pQ/s/8. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/8/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.