# Isn't calling a mortgage agency just a loophole for interest? *Is the mortgage argument a loophole? Names do not change essences* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/7/ - Date: 2021-01-29 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Shaykh Atabek Shukurov | Mortgages, Madhabs & Molvi-ism | MindTrap 48 | Mufti Abu Layth (31:13–33:53) - Status: a view quoted in order to be discussed, not a position held - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtwyWCa2-pQ&t=1873s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/ **Topics:** Riba, mortgages and loans **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says the loophole charge is backwards: what counts is what is technically happening, and a bank that also gives loans can still offer a permissible mortgage, as a pub also sells food. ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth puts the objection that this is going round in circles, finding loopholes and calling the same thing by a different name. The guest turns it round: it is his opponents who give a different name to make the halal haram, since calling Mufti a palm tree does not change his essence, and one must look at what is technically happening, which is agency. Mufti raises a second objection, that a bank is known and advertised as an institution that gives loans. The guest answers that a pub is known for alcohol but also sells mashed potato, and one unlawful product does not make the others unlawful: banks give loans, some of which are riba, but they also do mortgages, and a mortgage is fine. ## Sources and names cited - Shaykh Atabek Shukurov (guest) - riba - tawkil (appointing an agent) ## Transcript (machine tier, 31:13–33:53) [30:47] This is the agent's money. They are investing it with the understanding that you will now buy it from them for the new price which is this ribba price uh or sorry what people will call a ribbar price but which is this new interest and the technical term is in the Sharia used with where you have a project a joint project and you all can make profit from it. [31:13] But sheh people will say people will say that is this not just uh you know just going around in circles finding loopholes and uh you know just uh calling something by a different name is it not you know in the famous you know you know it's like is this not just a changing the names and the entities the same people would would argue that yeah I I think I think uh I will argue you this is what you are saying is applicable you know with me against others so I will say to the people it's not [31:51] it's not it is and you guys are calling it by different name to make the halal into haram do you understand because what what what makes for example look I will call you palm tree mtis you are palm tree okay but does me naming you change your um your real essence no you are human Do you understand? Yes. Of course. [snorts] So means by looking at you, we have to give you the correct name. [32:19] Mhm. So we have to look into technicality what's happening. So technically it [clears throat] is Toky. But people but people would say out of curiosity people would say that look a bank is an institution which gives out loans. Yeah. Uh so everybody knows that that's what a bank does. If you were doing this with a private person, you know, it's okay, fair enough. [32:44] You know, he could be an agent, he could be something. But a bank is known for loans. I mean, they advertise it. Look, we give out loans. So, so they would say, well, then isn't this aren't we just it's not we're just giving it names. We're just going by what they are saying. Yeah. Yes. So, it's the same as for example, you go to the pub and it's and [laughter] everyone knows. You're going to tell you're going to tell everyone about that. That's [laughter] That's our little secret. [33:13] You know, for example, someone goes to the pub, [laughter] okay? And then me and you, me and you will say, "Look, everyone knows that pub sells alcohol." No, no, no. Beside alcohol, they also sell, for example, potato, mashed potato. Understand? So, just because one of their products is unlawful in Islam, it does not mean that the other products are also unlawful. Do you understand? So mortgage and loan it's two separate thing definitely they give loan some of them are but some of them are not ribba okay but also they do mortgage so mortgage is okay and and this was something you [33:52] wrote an open letter to if am I am I mixing that up that's what I recall so yeah yeah yeah it was uh so what what what's that all about how did that go yes so basically uh basically it was um was it 2008 or 2009 maybe during the during the lecture I did clarify because they have asked me about the mortgage so I have clarified whatever we were discussing now for example and then they said no you know there is big number of scholars they said it is haram so then I just went into um um into just ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment rtwyWCa2-pQ/s/7. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/7/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.