# Is the Musnad really Imam Ahmad's book, and is it authentic?

*Musnad Ahmad: Imam Ahmad's draft, and inauthentic by its own standard of wijada*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/12/
- Date: 2021-01-29 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Shaykh Atabek Shukurov | Mortgages, Madhabs & Molvi-ism | MindTrap 48 | Mufti Abu Layth (54:39–58:48)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtwyWCa2-pQ&t=3279s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/

**Topics:** Hadith collections and their history; Authenticating hadith

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says the Musnad is Imam Ahmad's draft but cannot be authentic by its own rules, since it reached us by wijada with additions by his son; Mufti Abu Layth holds that it was not Ahmad's book at all.

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth mentions his clip on the Musnad of Ahmad, arguing that it is not really Ahmad's Musnad but was put together by a later transmitter, al-Qati'i [?], not even by his son Abdullah. The guest says the Musnad shows both Ahmad's high rank in hadith and his lower rank in other fields, and that it is Ahmad's draft, his notes from his teachers. His radical point, he says, is that by the standards of both the mainstream and the hadith scholars the Musnad cannot be authentic: Ahmad himself forbade transmitting a page found from someone's book, which is wijada, yet left the Musnad in that state, and Abdullah copied it and added many reports of his own. Mufti calls this a point he had never thought of. The guest adds that the Musnad also shows how little regard Ahmad had for reasoning and other principles, to the point of preferring a weak hadith.

## Sources and names cited

- Shaykh Atabek Shukurov (guest)
- Musnad Ahmad
- Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal
- Abdullah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal
- al-Qati'i [?]
- wijada (a found manuscript)

## Transcript (machine tier, 54:39–58:48)

[54:38] Hadith means you know um um uh collecting the hadith of course that only I I've had a little uh uh um I've stirred a little thing on the musnet. I have a small clip as well which I've called Musnet gate uh where I've argued that the the Musnad of Ahmed isn't really the Muslim of Ahmed but it's uh yes is the one that's putting it together.

[55:05] Not even Abdullah but it's the one taking it from him. But I don't know if if but that's something maybe if if you have thoughts or later on some other day. No no no I think I think let's let's let's discuss the Musad because um um um Musnad clarifies not only the hadith but it you know gives us the clear shape of Ahmed Muhammad his Muslad.

[55:31] through Musnad we can read the actual personality of Im Ahmed you know so I think definitely we should um so it it will give us very strong messages one is the high rank of Ahmed in hadith mhm okay and he's um not very high rank in in you know do you feel that the the Muslim of Ahmed was Imam Ahmed's book or is there a bit obviously He he left it.

[56:02] No, no, no. Because it's his draft, you know. So, let's suppose that I will be going to my teachers to write the knowledge, you know. Mhm. So, that was that. So, it's exactly it's his draft. Okay. You do feel it's his you do feel it's his draft, though. Okay. You feel it's his okay. Sure. Sure. Sure. because I I had my my theory was that it wasn't his that the people and I feel it wasn't even Abdullah's but that they taught hadith and Kat comes along and he rises on the back of this by claiming it was a book.

[56:41] Uh but yeah that's so that's the whole um you know it's like a that's good point. That's a good point. However, however, maybe maybe only the radical point which I will make today. Okay. So, according to both according to both the mainstream musta as well as the Mustah Muslim Ahmed is not authentic cannot be authentic. Okay?

[57:05] Because do you know the um um do you know even Ahmed Hal by himself makes this statement. Okay. was saying uh someone came to him asking oh imam I uh found this uh this page filled from the book of fan and fan can I copy it and transmit it so he said no understand so wijada but then which yeah yeah so it is wijada but look it looks like that very fine level of wijuada because let's suppose I im bkari stands up okay and one page falls down you see Bkari and you see do you understand it is but very

[57:45] but it's not yeah yeah yeah so Ahmed says no don't do that but then he leaves Musl exactly on the same level okay and then Abdullah comes okay and copies that and more than that he introduces quite a lot of you know a hadith from himself also do you understand so it became so according to both it cannot be authentic do you understand so yeah no that's actually a very good point actually wow I never thought of that point.

[58:12] That's very intriguing. That's very good for that. But but however, it is very rich. I would say um it um um it uh clearly clearly explains the very very high level of Ahmed Muhammad in hadith. Okay. Firstly, but secondly also it it shows that he does not give much respect to other subjects for example such as reasoning and you know and other principles of the you know but main inclination is to because to the extent that he says uh do you prefer a weak hadith over Yeah.

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment rtwyWCa2-pQ/s/12. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/rtwywca2-pq/s/12/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.