# Is the Quran created or uncreated? Why he calls the debate absurd

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/r7s1dcclcwu/s/2/
- Date: 2018-01-02 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Reply to Abu Ibraheem (Salafi)- By Mufti Abu Layth al-Maliki (3:56–10:31)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7s1DcClcwU&t=236s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/r7s1dcclcwu/

**Topics:** Creed and the schools of theology; Responses to critics

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth holds that the created or uncreated Quran debate is absurd: the Companions never discussed it, and it arose as a political dispute over the caliphs' authority in the time of al-Ma'mun.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** The debate over whether the Quran is created or uncreated is absurd and without meaningful outcome: the Companions never discussed it, and it arose as a political dispute over the caliphs' authority in the time of al-Ma'mun.

**Evidence, his words at 3:56:** “the question is is the Quran created uncreated and I said that this the whole discussion is absurd which I stand by today and I say it's absurd” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7s1DcClcwU&t=236s)

## Longer summary

The critic's first point is a clip in which Mufti Abu Layth, asked whether the Quran is created or uncreated, called the whole discussion absurd; Mufti says he stands by that. He quotes the critic's objection that the salaf and the Companions sacrificed for this belief and taught it, and asks in reply for a single narration in which the Companions discussed whether the Quran is created or uncreated, saying no such discussion exists and that the quotation the critic brought only says the Quran is the speech of Allah, which nobody denies. He says the debate was a political one that began in the time of al-Ma'mun and two further caliphs [?], that Imam Malik and Abu Hanifa never spoke of it, and that Imam Ahmad, whom he loves and respects, is not from the salaf. He recommends a book he calls 'Early Inquisitions in Islam' [?] and says the inquisition lasted fifteen years, well past al-Ma'mun's death. He explains the debate as a contest over authority: the caliphs, who called themselves the shadow of God on earth, were told that the uncreated word of God stood above them, and answered that the word was created and subject to men's interpretation; he concludes that it had nothing to do with theology and that everyone agrees the written mushaf is created, which is why he calls it absurd.

## Sources and names cited

- Abu Ibraheem Husnayn
- al-Ma'mun
- Imam Malik
- Abu Hanifa
- Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal
- the inquisition over the created Quran (mihna)
- Early Inquisitions in Islam [?]
- salaf
- kalam Allah (the speech of Allah)

## Transcript (machine tier, 3:56–10:31)

[3:48] said yeah so he begins by saying that look his beliefs are completely deviant and he called to a topic that I've discussed a question I've been asked in the past and the question is is the Quran created uncreated and I said that this the whole discussion is absurd which I stand by today and I say it's absurd so he he then pauses this and no sorry and in the clip I say that look there's been a difference of opinion people this discussion has no meaningful

[4:27] outcome and skull is like show can you have said look it doesn't matter what a person believes because this discussion does can't even truly be understood nobody even understands what they're saying and I said look this discussion is just absurd leave it alone so he then follows up with his commentary and he says stuff and the guy's got a really long beard I'm not mocking the brother but it's probably about this long to be honest with you it's really long right so he's got like a really long beard and like a bald head I'm not mocking him but I'm just describing him

[5:07] just so you got pictures right now he says that a star for the self of this Ummah they sacrificed so much for this belief I'm ready now and the tambourine in the sahaba taught them will you say it's absurd to the companions will you say it's absurd to the companions so I'd like to pause this here pause pause

[5:42] companions did the companions say to you because the companions never even discussed Ikeda they never ever discussed that either so I'm going to first of all ask you can you bring me with the companions discussed that the Quran is created or uncreated

[6:08] there is no such discussion people ever ever the quote he brought was the turba he's saying that the quran is the kalaam of allah the speech of allah nobody denies the quran being the speech of allah this discussion is to do with whether the Quran was created on created it was a useless discussion that was a political discussion that began in the time of Matt moon right it was useless it had no I mean it was just absolutely useless from in the time of Matt moon Madison and motivic him this is it the three

[6:47] caliphs it was I had no outcome people didn't even understand if the Sahaba had spoken about this issue they wouldn't have been a discussion because people would have settled this the hadith the discussion over so they would be no discussion Imam Malik never spoke about it Abu Hanifa never spoke about this discussion didn't exist in their lifetime the seller of all the the Companions this the turban in their students and then these students at a better bring people like Imam Ali people like in my Mohammed who we love and respect are not from the sellers okay they are not from the set

[7:26] of we love and respect him but he's not from the sellers so this discussion didn't happen during the sellers time so when you said so he said so many of the Sahaba taught this please bring me just one just one mwah-ha-ha-ha lake here ja ja simran ja Gigli apne zindagi go I'll wait here for you bring me just one narration from the Sahaba where they taught that the Quran was created or uncreated this dialogue didn't exist so

[8:06] before you're about to refute me for calling something absurd at least to that much homework at least to them come on you can do better than you're better than that okay let's move on next point so he says that what I had to make some bullet points of what he's some of these main topics and just by the way before I move on from that topic just to explain this discussion was a political discussion it was I shared a talk in fact there's a really good book I recommend you read it's called early

[8:45] inquisitions in Islam and it covers this topic so interestingly and people going on about matt bourne matt bourne the calif of the time he dies four months into this inquisition this inquisition lasts for 15 years imam ahmed is one of the early people what about the other years that goes on why was this such a big deal this debate had nothing to do really with belief this debate was to do with the fact right let me just explain this

[9:22] this debate right was to do with the fact that the caliphs wanted to believe and establish that they are the greatest authority on earth they are god's shadow on earth they used to call themselves that the lorac man fell out that they are the shadow of god on earth now they there is no higher authority than them the caliphs had this kind of superiority complex just as the kings of europe called themselves divine that they would divinely chosen so somebody's had said that wait a minute but the quran is the word of God and the Word of

[10:02] God is uncreated and you're a human and you are created so technically you are not the utmost so the caliphs kind of angle was that wait a minute no the Word of God which we have is also created and subject to interpretation by men and I am created and I am the authority of God the hand of God on earth so I reign supreme this is what the debate was about it was political he had nothing to do really with theological aspects and it doesn't mean anything because the must have which is a book the Koran which is a book everybody

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment R7s1DcClcwU/s/2. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/r7s1dcclcwu/s/2/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.