# Why great scholars accepted it: sectarian turf war with the Mu'tazila - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/pifqxkwyrwg/s/6/ - Date: 2018-04-15 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Magic: Myth and Reality in Islam by Mufti Abu Layth (30:12–40:24) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFqxkWyrwg&t=1812s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/pifqxkwyrwg/ **Topics:** Sects, sectarianism and takfir; Magic, the evil eye and superstition; Orthodoxy and how Islam spread **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth argues that belief in magic, even on the Prophet, hardened as a sectarian reaction against the Mu'tazila, just as other issues hardened against Salafis or Shia. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the narrative that the Prophet had magic done on him was retrospectively reinforced to support a sectarian turf war with the Mu'tazila. **Evidence, his words at 35:15:** “even the Prophet had magic done unto him you see this was retrospectively reinforced as a narrative to support the sectarian turf war that was going on” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFqxkWyrwg&t=2115s) ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth addresses the objection that great scholars of the past did not reach this view, explaining through orthodoxy: the Prophet and the companions had no list of beliefs beyond belief in Allah, his messengers, books and the afterlife, Imam Malik's Mudawwana has no creed, and al-Fiqh al-Akbar [?] attributed to Abu Hanifa is largely the work of later scholars, while the main body was identified by its dedication to hadith. He says the Mu'tazila, whom he calls extremists for holding that a major sinner is in a state between belief and disbelief, mocked belief in magic, and that the main body retrospectively reinforced the narrative that the Prophet had magic done on him as part of a theological turf war. He gives parallels: raf' al-yadayn opposed in the Indian subcontinent because Salafis did it; triple talaq in one sitting counting as one, a minority view found in every school but treated harshly once Salafis adopted it, leading to the halala industry; and mut'ah opposed in sectarian terms because of the Shia. He says the same happened with magic and jinn possession because the Mu'tazila held a stance. ## Sources and names cited - Imam Malik - al-Mudawwana - Abu Hanifa - al-Fiqh al-Akbar [?] - Mu'tazila - raf' al-yadayn (raising the hands in prayer) - triple talaq - halala - mut'ah (temporary marriage) - Salafi - Shia - jinn ## Transcript (machine tier, 30:12–40:24) [29:32] may have then become transmitted as his famous chain from you know his father from Aisha because Imam Malik cuttable birth daddy transmits the Imam Malik never can allow your vehicie that he would he wasn't happy with his sham because especially since he came back from Iraq and what he used to transmit Khateeb al-baghdadi transmits from certain people that Imam Malik never used to like him and like his transmissions but I'm not saying I'm just pulling that in there as a little question mark I'm not saying you we have to reject all these transmissions or anything but it's a question mark to see hmm this is interesting now so so just [30:12] to to to highlight that I did want to say that okay well people might say okay if look today we've heard chef economy say you've heard other allama if not shoot most of all Marathi all these shells to the ulama of al-azhar all these people saying look no magic wasn't done on the Prophet and this is all like this but then tell me there were many great alumni in Islam hypnagogia or imam no we called the ER in all these great people legends of islam couldn't they arrive at this simple understanding that you guys have arrived at or you guys you know got [30:50] access to some special in what kind of pre-workout drink are you guys on so the thing is how is it that you know this and it wasn't obvious to them so i want to explain that to explain that i need you to just slightly just take a step back mentally and just try to understand what where I'm where I'm coming from I want to speak about orthodoxy for a moment what makes mainstream beliefs in Islam and I think this would be a beautiful topic for another day as well in full detail but what makes because in the time of the [31:30] prophet Mohamed Salah listen there wasn't we didn't have a list of beliefs the Prophet just said in the hadith Iman is just believing in these five or six thing you never said more than that today we have Creed we have a list going now you miss one of them you're out of Islam in the time of the Sahaba there wasn't a list there wasn't like if you went to Omar rahat table and said what what a Muslim supposed to believe in yeah they'll say believe in allies messenger as in the hadith these books you know and afterlife that allies absolutely in control things like that's it there's no there isn't gonna be like all [32:07] these these details and so so okay but people might say hey but in the time of the Sahaba things weren't developed fine okay let's move on turbot aim okay Hadid start to get documented let's move on again at about October in time of Imam Malik are things documented now Imam Malik from him transmitted as volumes five volumes of the Madonna dealing with all muscle buying selling married divorced speaking about sectarian things how worried she are martyrs Allah this this [32:43] is does he have a belief system no did he mom Alec ever teach you what Muslims ought to believe as I believe no they don't have it did Imam Abu Hanifa recollect bar is not Imam of a honey Facebook it's attributed to him and by I mean it's actually more or less the work of some of the Huaraz means who came after this did Imam Abu Hanifa know this in fact the word Allah Sunnah didn't even exist so what define the main body of Muslims usually okay there's some good work done on this usually the dedication to hadith as a movement as a social movement [33:22] became the this is why mom Abu Hanifa took a lot of slack because he wasn't part of that clique so to speak but the people who dedicated themselves to hadith became known as the main body the orthodoxy anyway moving more importantly this extremist group emerge in early Islam in the time of the turbo enan at about a being known as the martyrs illa why I say they were extremists is because they believed by committing a major sin you were no longer Muslim they said you weren't kaffir but they came up with a purgatory state you were a man's illa bima manzil attained this is the first thing that split the MARTA Zilla [34:02] from the main body of the muslims then they went on to develop other beliefs along the way as they started to get more sophisticated over the generations because the main body of Muslims had dedicated themselves to hadith work these people relied more on language on literature and then sometimes just common sense and reason now the issue was that the Methuselah started to make some matters a point now the moment they made it a point it became theological [34:37] turf war there was turf war going on now so the moment the martyrs Eli believed in something we have to hate it all now this still happens today with all the other groups the mozilla came up with this they used to mock a lot of things with normal allison whatever they were up and downs debates but they mocked this concept as well there's no such thing as magic ah the martyrs are saying of what are you talking about of course there is magic they say well no there isn't this is nonsense this is this in the Quran Jesus [35:15] ah even the Prophet had magic done unto him you see this was retrospectively reinforced as a narrative to support the sectarian turf war that was going on and it just people became blinded the fact that was it compromising even the honor of the Prophet but it's just that what's important is we prove this point an example is like you will get like let's say in a good one now it's calmed down but in the subcontinent Indian subcontinent maybe a decade and a half ago this huge big thing about [35:54] roughly thing or maybe two decades ago roughly then became this huge thing and people because the seller fees at the time were people who generally and some chef is but we're doing roughly then and it was seen as well so people start to say Oh to do this is to be a Wahhabi roughly then it's got nothing to do with the Wahhabi group or the it's got nothing chef for a year to roughly Dane DeHaan ability roughly Dane the Maliki ado roughly then there's nothing to do with the Wahhabi Salafi movement but it became it became a victim of theological turf war sectarian this kind of [36:33] sectarian warfare so now people try to hate all roughly they do you know why people did roughly Dane because in the time of the Prophet the mana fifteen used to hide these little statues in their armpits like this and these to take them to the Masjid so they can keep their gods close to them and and saw the Prophet and this is found out and said or do roughly then they're gonna fall out this I heard this story myself this story I don't know if you guys have heard it this is this is look the point is why are you over doing it awfully Danish from the for bottle of Salah some do it some dog why the big deal big [37:11] deals not because of real filadyne big deals because the wahhabis are doing it so we have to be different we have to attack any a good another good example three the locks let's take the three thalaaq as an example now the three the locks in one modulus minority opinion but it's existed in every matter every single meth happens at this view starting even the hanafis with al-razi over kerala Rossi and and other people and you've got sorry Mohammed ignore Makati la Rossi and you've got in the Malik here several people said in the Sharia the Hannah Beulah every mother said it okay may not have been the popular view [37:50] but every Mother's Day oh but because the seller fear made it their view though hobbies made it their view oh now all hell will break loose so now oh my god it's the worst kind of Xena this is this your house will be cursed do not expand I get the amount of cases I'm sure chef gets tons of cases I the amount of people that speak to me about this oh you know and they're so guilty like that you know I want the relationship to be saved but I can't because you know I've set the lock three times and you know they've told me this [38:28] is the worst kind of Xena this is like this this is like this and I've gotta do halala and this is another industry that opens off he assumed he adult industry that kind of comes off from this but the thing is now so this why why you will this harshness against the threat alocs is it because a 50 masala no because of the sectarian a good example muta with the Shia or wiping over the feet or the socks same thing what I in itself is not is a 50 debate in essence I mean generally most polymer will believe it [39:07] to be Haram some may not but it was in essence something to do with thick to do with marriages it wasn't to do with al-qaeda in fact it was the understanding of it not a per se more uneven or Hussein and I think jabber are gradually and other kind of people from the Salaf but but what was oh the moment the Shia had it it now became a sectarian Matteson you have to destroy the Heller of the argument and you have to be as harsh as you can and the same thing happened with magic and jinn possessions and all this kind of stuff [39:45] because the Motta's illa held a stance Alesana retrospectively re-engineered our narrative to fall in line with this to just bash them to hate on them analyst so now were generally early day is very proud of reason but the moment Montes let's start to use it they start to bash on reason and say you know none of this makes any sense so these were the key things that I wanted to kind of address the this incident of her root and marut that is used in the Quran once again just bringing it to that Allah ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment PiFqxkWyrwg/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/pifqxkwyrwg/s/6/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.