# Why are two of the daily prayers recited silently when 17:110 says not to be silent? *Why two prayers are silent: Malik's living tradition and 17:110 as crying out to God* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/onzjd7xmdhe/s/30/ - Date: 2025-10-18 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Br Muhammad MFG | Quranist Only Belief - A Dialogue | MindTrap #82 - Mufti Abu Layth (2:31:09–2:41:21) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONzjD7XMDhE&t=9069s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/onzjd7xmdhe/ **Topics:** Prayer; Tafsir and verse study; Quran-only movement **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The silent prayers come from the living tradition Malik described, handed down from the Companions' descendants; Mufti Abu Layth reads 17:110 as being about crying out to Allah, neither in despair nor in silence, rather than the five prayers, citing 8:35 where 'prayer' means whistling and clapping. ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth answers that the silent prayers are the inherited tradition from the Prophet, as Imam Malik said that the people around him were the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the Companions who learned from their fathers back to the Prophet, so the Sunnah is embodied in a living tradition that taught how to pray. The guest says this is being told to follow what God revealed and answering that one follows what one's forefathers did. Mufti asks which salah the verse speaks of and has the guest read 17:110: call upon Allah or al-Rahman, and be neither loud nor silent in your prayer but seek a way between. Mufti says the verse begins with calling upon Allah and concerns people crying out, neither screaming in despair nor falling silent as if they had given up, but taking a middle path; the guest asks whether that is his interpretation or the tafsir, since the exegetes say it concerns the prayer and the Prophet's quiet recitation, and Mufti says al-Razi and others give several meanings and that tafsir is the 1,400-year tradition. The guest says that is not from the Prophet, who is supposed to be the clarifier; Mufti replies that no Muslim has ever claimed every verse has a Prophetic tafsir, only select verses, and that this verse is self-explanatory: salah here means calling out, as the guest himself had defined salah as dua, not the five prayers. The guest calls this attributing a lie, and Mufti cites 8:35, where the polytheists' 'prayer' at the House was only whistling and clapping, a kind of chanting and calling out; the guest says the answer does not align with the Quran, and that his own prayer is not silent. ## Sources and names cited - Br Muhammad (MFG, MuhammadFromGod channel) - Quran 17:110 (be neither loud nor silent in your prayer, but seek a way between): https://quran.com/17/110 - Quran 8:35 (their prayer at the House was only whistling and clapping): https://quran.com/8/35 - Imam Malik - Fakhr al-Din al-Razi - The deen reaches us through continuous living practice - tafsir ## Transcript (machine tier, 2:31:09–2:41:21) [2:30:53] no we usual because the people watches my people people who watch my channel, they they've seen this countless of times where we get interrogated many many questions on how we apply the Quran. And it's not like we're not quoting things outside of the Quran, we're quoting the Quran. And then when it comes down to asking a simple question about your traditions, we get no answers, nor do we get a room to ask. So it proves that it's just an undercutting defeater and it's not actual uh an exposition. [2:31:20] Because if it's an exposition, then you have to prove to us that why you're on a better stance. I've asked you the question about the prayer and you've still yet to answer. Why are two of your prayers silent? What was the salah the you said about the salah? Because I don't want you I did say I was going to answer it. What was the question? Sorry. Yeah. Yes. Why are two of the prayers? Because this was the inherited tradition from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam as I Malik said. He said that the people he said that the the people around us are the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of the Sahabah who learned it from their fathers who learned it from the fathers who learned it from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. [2:31:53] We have a living tradition that has reached us and this taught us how to pray. So of course uh we have the sunnah embodied in the living tradition. That's why we pray in that way. So when so when it's told to them follow what God has revealed no we'll follow what we found our forefathers doing is just being applied to you because God what he revealed what God has revealed he said do not be silent in your prayers and do not be loud in your prayers and you're choosing to be silent because that's what we found our forefathers doing. [2:32:21] No look, you yourself a moment ago said when you approach a verse that a verse has many meanings, right? So this particular verse that you're speaking about, what salah and what where does it specify what salah is talking about? It's salah. Salah is understood in the Quran as as where does it specify? You can you can if you like you know just so you feel I have not answered the vers the question you can read the verse to people. Sure. [2:32:46] Uh so no Call upon God or call upon the merciful uh for whichever you call upon he has the good names and do not be loud in your prayer and do not be silent in your prayer and find a middle path. [2:33:10] And what does that mean here? The loud and the silent. Do not be excessively loud. out of his When when people are excessively loud, what are they doing? They're screaming. They're screaming out. Screaming out, aren't they? Screaming out. Out of despair. Out of despair. And when And when they're silent, what have they done? Completely silent. They've given up. Oh, and Allah is saying, "Do not give up on him. [2:33:37] Do not yell in frustration." To which means really low. Yeah. Yeah. Do not be but take a middle path. Is that what your tradition says or is that your interpretation? Is that not what the verse says? Is that what your interpretation? Is that your interpretation or is that is that what is that what is that what the ex Jesus says? Because ex Jesus say it's about the prayer because the two prayers that you're talking No saying that this verse came this verse came down because the prophet was silent prayer because no one No, no, that's one. [2:34:08] No, no. If you read Razi, if you read Ash, right, you're going to find several. So all of this is no. So is that from you as didn't you say the isn't that isn't the is from the isn't it? Oh so it's not from the prophet right son. So taps is the 1400 years of tradition that we have. [2:34:32] Is it from the you said you said he's the one who's clarifying the Quran. Is he clarifying? So I said to you look and this comes back to the point I asked you a simple question. Does the voice of reason play a role in the in revelation? You said it does. I said by that logic, does not the reason of those who went before us also count? Okay. But then you're appealing to tradition, but when the tradition is negating the exesus that you gave me, you're going to say to me that it's not from the messenger from ex Jesus. [2:34:59] I thought it's supposed to come from the prophet. He's the one who's clarifying it. Who clarified it to clarify it and they wrote it down. So if this is not an ex Jesus that the prophet said, so where'd you get that from? It seems like you got it from yourself. So why are we Look, Muhammad Muhammad, no Muslim has made this claim ever, right? As far as I'm aware that every single verse of the Quran has had a tap by the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam which was tied in and written down and that was the point that you made so clarify for me. [2:35:34] Select verses from the prophet. Oh. Oh, select verses. That's not the presentation that you told me. That's a verse that God has brought down. Bring the tons. And I've explained it to you. The verse is self-explanatory. Mhm. Okay. Does it need an explanation? Why is the verse begin? [2:35:55] No. Look, it begins by saying that call Rhman. Where do you call upon Allah? In your prayer. And Rahman. What does what does prayer here mean? Prayer. In which prayer? No. Salah. Salah doesn't salah. This is when you're crying out to God. Oh, salah is crying out to God. Look how it begins. Look how it begins. [2:36:19] Call out to Allah. Call out to Rahman. Look. So whoever you're calling out to So the word means names. So what does the word mean? You're talking about calling. But but you know very well. You know very well. You know this verse very clearly. No look you asked me to explain the verse and I don't want you to say that I didn't explain it. This verse is speaking about people who are crying out to Allah. [2:36:46] It's not speaking about the salawats. Now you can take it to mean that but it does not mean that you know the funny part is even there's no funny part in this right because look you ask me to explain it. You asked me to explain it and I don't want you to say I didn't explain. So now this is speaking by primapasi reading that if you just read the verse this is what it's saying it begins by saying call rahman call Allah where do people do this they cry out Allah is saying don't you don't need to do it in this exasperate in this sense where you are yelling and screaming that you don't need to do it in a way where you appear as though you are disappearing but finally he's not talking about the he's talking [2:37:25] about the salah but no but Salam means praying out means praying out. Does it not mean that? Did you not just say this a moment ago? No, you call upon your Lord, you call you said a moment ago is the definition of salah a moment ago and you said it was dua calling out. So in doing when you're doing is your fiveawat. [2:37:53] Yes. But but exactly see now you're attributing a lie once I'm not attributing a lie. I'm not attributing a lie because even your own traditions talk about so so when you're you're doing it's not a salah does it say is is a salah sorry but does it say in that verse does it say so the set of look is the is the prayer the prayer look it's talking It's talking about you don't need [2:38:33] I was not answering the question. I answered it because I don't want you to feel that I didn't answer and I said I was going to answer it. You said look what is this verse speaking about? This verse is speaking about crying out to Allah. Now you said no you doesn't mean it means crying out in prayer. You cry out to Allah and and then pray. So is that a salah? This is not speaking about theat. I'm not asking about the verse is look. [2:38:59] So look listen brother put the verse to the side is look listen by the way. By the way you see now this is what you're doing. This is what you're doing. I've been steeling your case right. You said right at the end just as I was about to sign off. You made a point that look you wanted to ask me a question. I you you felt I felt you were saying maybe you didn't and I not judging your intention that oh I was running away from answering it. [2:39:27] So I said no no no let me answer the question. So what was the verse? Now you read a verse. Now in another verse as well of the Quran the word that their crying out at the was not that what what was the it was the crying out. right now. Explain. What does means? Yeah. Yeah. It was the whistling and the kind of clapping. This is the So whistling and clapping is calling out. [2:39:54] Yeah. It's a calling out. It's like a chanting. Oh, whistling and clap. Whistling and clapping. That's calling out because you're chant. No, because you're chanting. You're kind of in this fine calling out. Cool. I'm very in the verse. So you look now you say question the question now you may not like my answer no your answer is not aligning to what the Quran is you're giving no because it wasn't in line with what you thought no this is the truth you had not because but it doesn't say in the salah in the verse [2:40:33] it say it doesn't speak about it's not speaking You do it normally there. So the funny thing is the you said a moment ago the Quran talks every day and you pray and salah by your verbatim quoting you salah is not about structure. You said that you but in my salah I'm not I'm not silent in it. [2:40:58] In my salah I'm not silent in it because God gave you the ingredients of the salah and you're you're you're quickly negating it for tradition. It's about the fact that you know if it made you cry if it made you it was the calling out to Allah. So As I'm saying it out loud, you've given you the I don't pray silently. No, I understand it may not have been the answer you were expecting. So, you had a No, because you're not being genuine. I didn't It didn't fit. ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment ONzjD7XMDhE/s/30. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/onzjd7xmdhe/s/30/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.