# If exorcisms and ruqya sometimes work, does that prove possession is real? *Placebo and nocebo: Ted Kaptchuk's sham pills and sham needles, and why exorcisms can seem to work* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/lexzvtf9yga/s/11/ - Date: 2018-04-15 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Jinn: Myth and Reality in Islam by Mufti Abu Layth (40:37–44:33) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeXzvtf9YGA&t=2437s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/lexzvtf9yga/ **Topics:** Jinn possession; Magic, the evil eye and superstition; Science, the universe and big questions **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** No: real symptoms can be produced or relieved by belief alone, as Ted Kaptchuk's study with fake pills and retractable needles showed, so an exorcism or ruqya can 'work' through the placebo effect. Some people would also have recovered regardless. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth holds that the placebo and nocebo effects, demonstrated in Ted Kaptchuk's sham-treatment study, explain why people genuinely feel better or worse after exorcisms and ruqya, and that some would have recovered anyway. **Evidence, his words at 44:21:** “so when people are going through gin exorcisms or rupiah or things like this things can actually work” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeXzvtf9YGA&t=2661s) ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth explains the placebo effect, where believing something is happening makes it happen, and its opposite, the nocebo effect, which causes real harm, both established in trials. He describes a study by Ted Kaptchuk of Harvard with about 270 subjects suffering arm, wrist and shoulder pain: half were given a pill of cornstarch and warned of side effects, half were given acupuncture. About a third of the pill group reported the side effects they had been warned of, some severely, from sluggishness and dizziness to excruciating pain, while far more of the acupuncture group reported relief. One might conclude acupuncture works better than medicine, but both were shams: the pills were fake and the needles retractable and never entered the skin. The pain, insomnia and vomiting were real, which is called psychosomatic. He says this is why, when people undergo jinn exorcisms or ruqya, things can genuinely work, and that, as the shaykh said, some people would have got better anyway, like a scam that runs enough people through to produce a hard core who always improve. ## Sources and names cited - Ted Kaptchuk (placebo researcher) - placebo effect - nocebo effect - ruqya (reading Quran over the afflicted) ## Transcript (machine tier, 40:37–44:33) [40:30] the brain that actually activates for teeth around there's a neuro within the fusiform gyrus the the neural activity now that part is getting activated now they can suppress this with drugs you can give drugs and that will just suppress activity how would you explain this in the past if somebody came to you and said oh I see teeth and I see people I see buildings you would have no kind of explanations and an hour and let alone we've seen we also heard some examples of where people sometimes do get better you know [41:08] people say oh but so-and-so did this or okie and they got better I want to highlight two people the placebo effect okay this - actually this it's actually interesting because there's a study I'll bring your attention to as well it's by Ted Kaptchuk who is an associate professor at Harvard University a medical professor I bring you want to bring your attention to some of his studies but before that I just want to highlight there's a placebo effect where you think something is happening and it's actually happening it like it creates a and there's the opposite called the nocebo effect which causes [41:47] harm well you actually can cause harm and this actually happens and has been tested and trial I mean through trials it's not just something that people have made up but what was interesting about this study just to highlight the placebo effect is Ted Kaptchuk what he had done was with about 270 subjects they wanted to test them who were suffering from certain pains to do with the wrists or they had like the carpal syndrome or the elbows or shoulders were hurting he got half of them and he was administered them a pill which was actually just nothing it's just like just made out of cornstarch or [42:27] whatever and just this useless pill but told them that okay this may have these kind of side-effects and this is what it was and the other half were administered acupuncture and they were told that why don't you take some acupuncture and stuff like these have you got stress you know it's hurting here 13 here and you know with the needles acupuncture you're all aware of it so what happened is to their amazement almost a third of the people started to complain and some very severely of the side effects that they warned including you know from sluggish behavior to not being able to get out of [43:05] bed to excruciating pain to being like all feeling dizzy I can't do the exact symptoms which they warned off a third the the half that he had given acupuncture much more of them a great quantity of them actually said that they felt a lot better and they felt relief now so from this study you could say well that's brilliant acupuncture works better than medicine well actually it doesn't because both were a sham not only were the pills he was giving fake but the needles that he was using were actually retractable and didn't even go [43:44] in the skin they were actually just giving the illusion that they were using needles they weren't actually there were sham needles the interesting thing this showed was that people the pain that people were feeling insomnia can go to sleep nausea throwing up was real it was actually happening this wasn't like oh they weren't throwing up the person was actually really throwing up they were really feeling pain it's called psychosomatic behavior when you actually can get ill it's called the nocebo effect and the placebo effect where you can actually [44:21] get better so when people are going through gin exorcisms or rupiah or things like this things can actually work it's not that they but they could work anyway it's like you heard chefs say that you know but some people would get better anyway it's not an it's a bit like that scam you know if I go through it with so many people by the end of it I'm gonna have a hard coke cult that definitely always get better like imagine you did that same experiment but with exorcism or with rupiah same thing somebody could ask her what is the purpose of Rokia see a Rukia in my ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment LeXzvtf9YGA/s/11. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/lexzvtf9yga/s/11/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.