# Is it OK for Quran teachers to beat students? *Maulvis who beat students: categorically haram* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/kwmtt2tqao0/s/12/ - Date: 2020-08-24 · Kind: question · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Monday Nights with Mufti #179 | Q&A Unscripted & Unrestricted! 😉 | Mufti Abu Layth (41:40–46:48) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWmtt2TQAO0&t=2500s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/kwmtt2tqao0/ **Topics:** Education, madrasas and seminaries; Raising children; Personal stories and reflections **Question as asked:** Why do maulvis say that beating saves [the student] from the punishment of hell? **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Beating students is categorically haram; he says even a classical manual for teachers forbade forceful discipline of children. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says that beating students in the way he saw teachers do it is categorically haram. **Evidence, his words at 46:10:** “the stick would break give me another stick bang bang bang whoa it was crazy man and it's categorically haram these things” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWmtt2TQAO0&t=2770s) ## Longer summary A superchat asks why maulvis say that where they beat a student, the fire of hell will not touch that spot. Mufti Abu Layth calls the claim absolutely stupid and says such people speak as if Islam were their family legacy. He says it is not permitted to beat people like that, and that even some 1,100 years ago, when discipline was harsher, Muhammad ibn Sahnun [?] in his book on the etiquette of teachers declared anything forceful done to a child haram. He recalls the hifz school where he studied, where teachers broke sticks on the students, and says he was spared, perhaps because he came from the UK, had studied in Damascus and spoke Arabic with the teachers. He says these beatings are categorically haram. ## Sources and names cited - Muhammad ibn Sahnun [?] - Adab al-Mu'allimin [?] - hifz - Jahannam ## Transcript (machine tier, 41:40–46:48) [41:01] ah so what happened to the verse tibiana li kulishi was allah kind of hinging that verse on your understanding and then in that case why should i go with your understanding why not my own after all i'm going to be asked about me i'm not going to be asked about you so in my understanding it's fine there you go what what more [Laughter] yeah so what do you think about chef hasan farhan al-maliki's current position or what right now [41:39] okay google show us shaykh farhan's current position [Laughter] what's his current position i don't know what that means what what does that mean right so let's go to some there's some super chats uh lil saf has super chatted you doing it little stuff you doing why do mulvey say beating saves them from punishment of hell yeah that's a dumb [42:20] absolutely dumb that is stupid i'm not going to let you get the chance [Laughter] right so that's what movies come up with oh you know wherever you took beats from the mulvisab uh the fire of jahannam will not touch that spot a cha cha did your dad like the fire of jahannam that it's going to obey you [Laughter] fire of jahannam ah the way these people speak it's like they feel [42:59] they act as though they have this is you know it's it it's like as if it's their personal family legacy islam that is absolute nonsense okay it is not you're not allowed to beat people like that and you know something people say this is now so you know you could go back who is the and in that time like think about it 1200 1100 years ago yeah things would be horrific one could imagine 1100 years ago people not talking about like just 20 years ago [43:38] thirty years ago eleven hundred muhammad ibn has a book on adam he has a book on the etiquettes and the rules of teaching and he does in that day and age you can imagine there was disciplining that people used to do that culturally he speaks about how to even in those cases these were extreme measures and something slight he says but anything forceful and so on to a child he declares then to be haram and look how [44:17] ancient that is this is categorically wrong the way they beat the hell out of the children it's it's horrific you know it's not if you if you've ever witnessed it [Laughter] it's like where where i did heath of the quran boy they used to beat the hell out of the students man honestly to break sticks on them i mean thank god they never ever hit me like i just i don't know how i would have reacted [44:54] because um it's utterly unacceptable i mean they never ever did to me i suppose i was they saw me as uh quite senior even though there were other people i suppose my age but they maybe it was the fact that i came from the uk or plus because i'd studied in damascus i used to speak arabic with the other teachers and the teachers used to refer some of them referred to me as sheikh for example even though i wasn't a sheikh at that time but just because of my arabic and stuff like this so maybe because of all of that they just [45:32] kind of had this i had this kind of aura of respect uh so they never ever treated me disrespectfully uh even when they got really angry with me i remember a teacher flipped once um at me but even then he never he just was really you know he just said something to him but he never tried anything with me to to hit me or something but i used to see what he used to do in the class man he would break the sticks and he used to say that like let's say it was a wednesday he would say so they've got it's like saying like [46:10] sunday markets wednesday so in that part of town they used to have a special like a wednesday markets market kind of day or like we have sunday markets here so he used to say that and you just go around wow bang boy the stick would break give me another stick bang bang bang whoa it was crazy man and it's categorically haram these things all right so what is going on ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment KWmtt2TQAO0/s/12. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/kwmtt2tqao0/s/12/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.