# Why did earlier scholars not see what reform-minded scholars see today?

*Why is this clear to you and not to the ulama of the past? The smoke-filled room and the balcony*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/ksqksrxndnw/s/5/
- Date: 2020-04-22 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Shaykh Dr. Shabir Ally | Juxtaposing the Quran, Jumbling Aisha's age & Jinn Possession | MindTrap#16 (14:11–18:08)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQKsrXndNw&t=851s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/ksqksrxndnw/

**Topics:** Legal theory and method; Narrator criticism; Guest conversations

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Past scholars were great but fallible and bound by their time, like people in a smoke-filled room or marchers in a procession, while today we can see the whole history of ideas from the balcony. Mufti Abu Layth adds that the apostasy rule rests on one problematic narration from Ikrima in Bukhari.

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth adds that the whole so-called apostasy rule rests on a single narration from Ikrima in Bukhari, which is itself problematic, and then puts the question people ask them both: if 'no compulsion in religion' is so apparent, why did the ulama of the past not see it, and why is it only being said in the twenty-first century? The guest answers with an image: in a smoke-filled room people stop smelling the smoke, while a newcomer notices it at once. He says the scholars of the past were great and we depend on them for hadith, grammar, tafsir and the religion as a whole, but they were not gods; they were fallible, subject to their time, place, teachers and social situation, so they could not see what an independent perspective now can. He offers a second image: scholars of the past were part of a procession filling the street, seeing only those just ahead and behind, whereas we can stand on a balcony and see the whole procession from start to finish, by taking books from different junctures of Islamic history as milestones showing how ideas flowed, solidified and came to be classed as unchangeable religion. It is no fault of theirs that they lacked this vantage point, and we are not infallible either, but we are responsible for the vantage point Allah has given us and will be questioned about what we were in a position to know.

## Sources and names cited

- Dr Shabir Ally (guest)
- Ikrima
- Sahih al-Bukhari
- report: whoever changes his religion kill him
- ulama

## Transcript (machine tier, 14:11–18:08)

[13:56] says there is no God with with emphasis in a similar way la illaha says there is no compulsion with with emphasis yeah absolutely sure one of the and one of the surprising things is that read this whole so-called rule if you want to call it the height of apostasy as people call it is really based on a singular narration from a coma and Bihari which is problematized in and of itself but but people will ask here like I mean

[14:34] they said to me I'm sure they've said to you that look are you saying that you can to you let you cannot have 15 is so apparent yet to these other ulema in the past they couldn't see this you know why have they not all said this in death of us here why are you in the 21st century managing to you know please say it's so clear brightest day but it wasn't - all these all amount the parts yeah you know shake when you're in a smoke-filled room after a while you don't smell the smoke if somebody comes to the room and then they say oh you know this is awful look at it you know

[15:12] the smoke in here is killing but but those who are already in the room they don't smell it so they become accustomed to that now it our our shoes in the past were great scholars and we depend on them for our learning maybe we can start from scratch we wouldn't know which way to turn but we depend on our great scholars of the past we learn from them the you know hadith we learn Arabic grammar we learned tough shear and and of course we depended on them to transmit the religion to us as a whole coagulation a conglomeration everything that that we know to be the religion but

[15:52] that does not mean that they were gods no there weren't laws if you won that and they fallible they're human beings they're also subject to their time and place they're influenced by their environments and by the people who taught them and the social situation in which they live and so on so naturally they're if you know that they don't see what somebody from an independent perspective might see and now we're able to look at it from an independent perspective and and see the whole history of the way in which ideas flow from one generation to another housing solidified how certain ideas

[16:31] came to be accepted and then become widespread and then classified as though this is now the unchangeable religion as it has always been and we can look back and see no it hasn't always been been like this we're not sure if if you allow me I'll give you an example that we thought oh sure let's say let's say we are part of a procession and and and this procession like fills the whole street so you know from side to side people are walking and we're part of that same procession and so while they're within that procession we see the persons who are just ahead of us and

[17:10] the persons who are just behind us if we if we bother to look back but what we don't see far back and we don't see far ahead and be part of that procession now let's see we go on one of the balconies overlooking this procession so we can see the whole thing from start to finish we can see where it began we can see where it ends now and we can see the people who are at a particular juncture which in within that procession and yet now others of the past they were great scholars but they're part of that procession they they are that's part of that whole history and flow of ideas over time now we have the unique

[17:49] advantage of being able to stand on the balcony how do we do that by getting the books from over the ages we can see what written at different junctures in Islamic history we can take them as milestones indicating how Islam was perceived at those various junctures in Islamic history and we can see an evolution of ideas over time so we can see the whole procession how it began how it began and how it proceeded and and the twists and turns and where it is ending up so if those scholars in the past being part of the procession did not have the vantage point that we have it's no fault of their own

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment KsQKsrXndNw/s/5. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/ksqksrxndnw/s/5/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.