# Is capital punishment, including for apostasy, justified? *Apostasy as treason, and why he opposes capital punishment* - URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/j6pxwgpnwd0/s/6/ - Date: 2019-08-04 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Thoughts on Muhammad Hijab's talk on Liberalism & Islam | Mufti Abu Layth (29:52–37:17) - Status: general teaching - Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6pXWGpnWd0&t=1792s - Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/j6pxwgpnwd0/ **Topics:** Apostasy and blasphemy; Extremism, crime and justice **Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth opposes capital punishment as absurd, killing to stop killing, and calls justifying death for apostasy as treason a stupid argument. He welcomes Mohammed Hijab's apparent move away from the classical ruling to kill apostates. **Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says he finds it ironic and absurd that, to stop people from killing, the state kills people. **Evidence, his words at 34:49:** “I find that so ironic that to stop people from killing people we kill people” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6pXWGpnWd0&t=2089s) ## Longer summary Mufti Abu Layth says Mohammed Hijab seemed hesitant on apostasy and has probably moved on from the Salafi-Wahhabi view that apostates should be killed, taking instead the stance that apostasy is treason; he agrees many later scholars saw it as treason, but reminds him that his favourite scholars, such as Ibn Taymiyya [?] and Ibn al-Qayyim, and the overwhelming majority of past ulama said to kill the apostate, and says he likes that Mohammed Hijab has jumped ship in light of reason. He rejects the lecture's appeal to the American Constitution's allowance of the death penalty, since an opponent of capital punishment owes no allegiance to any constitution. Asked what he has against capital punishment, he says he finds it ironic and absurd to kill people to stop people killing, likening it to smashing a window to stop window-breaking, and points to Europe, where its absence has not led to chaos. He calls justifying the killing of people for changing faith by treason a stupid argument, while respecting Mohammed Hijab's move. ## Sources and names cited - Mohammed Hijab - riddah (apostasy) - Salafi - Wahhabi - Ibn Taymiyya [?] - Ibn al-Qayyim [?] ## Transcript (machine tier, 29:52–37:17) [29:14] rejected it let's say Bertrand Russell if you're gonna say well Bertrand Russell kind of rejected that as well I'd say well great awesome rock on but does that mean now I have to agree with everything Bertrand Russell said and for you to find something that Bertrand Russell had said and catch me out on it absolutely not absolutely not so this was an important factor the other thing was that there was this huge discussion that Muhammad hijab had about the death penalty and he said well look [29:52] ah but America and about apostates and he said well Islam and I feel here that Muhammad hijab kind of he was semi he was kind of like slightly hesitant and I think Muhammad hijab has probably moved on from the Salafi Wahabi understanding of saying and some of the people's understanding of saying that we should kill apostates but he's probably too worried to say it out publicly so he's taken the stance that apostasy is [30:28] treason which fine I I agree that I feel that many scholars did feel that apostasy was treason in later especially in the later in centuries but may I remind Mohamed hijab here that most of his favorites covers that he always would quote would disagree Everly even the same year and all these people if not kmo josiya all these people will [31:03] say kill the apostate kill the apostate they will have no mercy and the overwhelming majority of anima in the past would have said kill the apostate so here he liked it naughty naughty so Mohammed hijab he here has kind of like abandoned the scholars for the in light of reason and I like that but he I think [31:40] he tried it he did it on the slice like is anybody looking no I'll jump ship which is brie I love the fact that he's jumped ship on that and he's saying that it's about treason and not about faith although he was a bit unclear in between I was trying to say well you know he wasn't being and he spoke of an Islamic state and in the Islamic state and I don't know what on earth in Islamic state is but anyway that's a different discussion for a different day but this thing of and then he said look well you can kill people today in the amendment [32:19] and in the American whatever Constitution and certain amendment and certain articles and and certain states still allow capital punishment aha so what are you gonna say about that and he said well if somebody comes to you and they are against capital punishment then you're gonna say well haha you know John Locke and these people and even did you know they believed in capital punishment and he spent ah haha and you know in the American Constitution and in the in in the Bill of Rights and this and this amendment it said this and in this article it said this aha [32:59] what would you have to say but he completely ignored the fact that the other person would just say well I don't care I condemn that too why would you assume that there is an allegiance this isn't a religion if British law I had capital punishment then I would kill debit I don't give a damn if it's in the unwritten Constitution of the UK or the routine Constitution of America I [33:36] wouldn't kill let I couldn't care less if it's wrong it is wrong I don't have no allegiance to some bill of rights or some Constitution if it's wrong so I don't and this sentiment that I'm saying is shared by so many people because this what why is meant by liberalism in the sense that you are against authoritarianism is a sentiment that's all it is it's just a feeling and that feeling people some people may have had it hundreds of years ago and other [34:15] people may have it today and some people in the future but it doesn't mean you have to be it's a kind of tribe not all once you have a use you're stuck with the tribe and everything that whole tribe you have to dress like them and walk like them and talk like them I mean that's a ridiculous somebody asked what have I got against capital punishment I have answered that in other places but look let check this out [34:49] the state says to kill people is wrong it is wrong to kill anybody is wrong ant is okay just the network slightly lingered there I find that so ironic that to stop people from killing people we kill people that's like imagine somebody around here was breaking the glass of windows so we say stop it stop it and then we smash a window to show them [35:25] that stop smashing windows stop killing people otherwise we're gonna kill you [Laughter] I find it absurd I feel that human beings can rise above that and alhamdulillah we have that on earth we have that in the European especially in in Europe and in at some other parts of the world there is no death penalty ok so human beings have that capacity don't underestimate what humans can do [36:03] see that people will say yeah but if you don't kill people then it's gonna go out of control but it doesn't look at Europe I mean what it's not perfect but it doesn't go out of control that's all I'm saying so yeah right so I right just coming back to this Muhammad he Jeb thing and to wrap that up so I feel that look there was a lot of talk about this about the death penalty and giving traitors treason people who have committed treason the death penalty as a justification that it's okay to do people for changing their faith I find [36:41] that stupid and absurd as an argument because look but then what to be fair mohammed hijab did put the caveat in there that oh well is it really about faith it's actually about allegiance to a state right so okay so there was there was some uncertainty where he lies on that principle that said I I respect that move of his but overall I feel that just to find this bringing in death penalties from America and things like that are a poor argument and they don't [37:16] justify anything and to say that look so there was this point where he said something about look without Scripture you guys would be no way in Islam gives Islam always gave sacred rights I that sit there was a part where he spoke about voting and he said look this is only 100 years old women have been given you know the suffragettes movement and things like this but Islam gave these rights 1400 years ago sure look these things are nice but look you've got to be real you are not if you if we were ## Cite Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment j6pXWGpnWd0/s/6. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/j6pxwgpnwd0/s/6/ Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.