# Why does Mufti Abu Layth admire Muawiya?

*Why he admires Muawiya: ruling is not about piety*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/iabl5vis3rg/s/10/
- Date: 2020-10-16 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Karbala & it's precursors | Mufti Abu Layth (32:04–35:11)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaBL5ViS3Rg&t=1924s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/iabl5vis3rg/

**Topics:** Umayyads and Abbasids; The companions

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Mufti Abu Layth admires Muawiya for knowing how to handle people, saying ruling is a matter of political skill rather than piety, and that Umar's era was the exception.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says he admires Muawiya because he feels Muawiya knew how to handle people.

**Evidence, his words at 32:04:** “You know, one thing people ask me, why do you admire Muawiyah on? I do I won't lie. I do admire Muawiyah on. I admire him because I feel that he knew how to handle people.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaBL5ViS3Rg&t=1924s)

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth says people ask why he admires Muawiya, and that he does, because Muawiya knew how to handle people and play the game. He says politics and piety do not mix: Umar's iconic age was in his understanding an exception, never the rule, which many pious people mistook for the norm, whereas rulers usually have to be astute and diplomatic and win hearts and minds. He quotes Muawiya's saying that between him and the people is a fine hair which he eases when they pull and pulls when they ease, and describes him playing good cop to Amr ibn al-As's bad cop. He concludes that, unfortunately, this is how politics works: it is about how one manages people, not how much one fasts and prays.

## Sources and names cited

- Mu'awiya ibn Abi Sufyan
- Umar ibn al-Khattab
- Amr ibn al-As

## Transcript (machine tier, 32:04–35:11)

[31:36] During Abu Sufyan's lifetime or prior to this, he was never recognized. And Ziyad used was an incredible fighter. And he was actually a a warrior from Sayyidna Ali's army. Who is captured by Muawiyah. And then somebody tells him that, you know, he's the alleged son of Abu Sufyan. He's your alleged brother. But really, I feel that this was a political move.

[32:04] I do feel that You know, one thing people ask me, why do you admire Muawiyah on? I do I won't lie. I do admire Muawiyah on. I admire him because I feel that he knew how to handle people. Like he was a You see, he he knew how to play the game.

[32:30] Uh You see, because ruling isn't, you know, politics isn't about piety. And they just don't mix. It's not about Like when you're ruling things, you have to know how to handle people. Remember the thing I mentioned about the iconic age of Umar? That in my understanding was an exception. It was never the rule.

[32:54] And people mistook that to assume it to be the rule. They wanted I feel that many pious people wanted that what Umar had. But the truth is that kind of rule of the pious seldom happens in history. It may happen as a one-off. And it, you know, occasionally a one-off, you get a really nice guy ruling.

[33:22] But usually, people who rule have to be very astute. They have to know how to handle people. They have to be diplomatic. They have to know how to win the hearts and minds of people. And Muawiyah on was great at that. He was a true um See, the word politician has a negative word to it. But he he was like somebody who knew how to play that game.

[33:49] And he would often say that, "Look, I I treat people like we there's a a between me and them is just a fine hair that is holding us together, binding us. If they pull on it, I ease up so it doesn't snap. But if they ease up, I pull." And he would And he would say that, you know, sometimes he would keep one of his advisors was like Amr ibn al-As.

[34:16] And he would say to him, who was Bani Umayya as well. He would say to him that, "Look, they would kind of you know, like the kind of good cop, bad cop." He would do that. He would say that, you know, if somebody comes like if they don't want Like let's say he doesn't want to give somebody something and he would say that, "You play the bad cop bad guy and I'll play the good guy." So, if they didn't want it, Amr ibn al-As would kind of say, "No, you know, we're not doing it.

[34:43] No, no, no." And people would Muawiyah would kind of be like, "No, I think we And he'd be like, "No, no, we can't. We can't. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, sir, but we can't." And And the public But it worked. You see, my point is that this is how politics works, unfortunately. You see, you can't It's You know, it's not about like how much you fast and how much you pray and how much It's about how you manage people.

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment iaBL5ViS3Rg/s/10. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/iabl5vis3rg/s/10/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.