# How clearly was zakah defined in the Prophet's lifetime?

*Paying taxes instead of zakah? Ghamidi, Ibn Taymiyya, and how defined zakah was in the Prophet's time*

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/housirokbvu/s/9/
- Date: 2020-04-19 · Kind: discussion · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Shaykh Kashif Khan | Policing thought, Pornography & Pandora's box | MindTrap with Mufti #15 (42:21–47:29)
- Status: general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOusirOkBVU&t=2541s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/housirokbvu/

**Topics:** Zakat and charity; Public law and governance; Guest conversations

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** The guest says some salaf and Ibn Taymiyya counted taxes paid to the authorities as zakah; Mufti Abu Layth says zakah was not clearly defined in the Prophet's time and its later rules were a pragmatic tax decision.

## Longer summary

Mufti Abu Layth says any out-of-the-ordinary fatwa makes people trigger-happy to call it kufr, noting that Ibn Taymiyya said a menstruating woman may perform tawaf, leaning on Abu Hanifa's view that purity is not a condition for it. The guest says Javed Ahmad Ghamidi [?] stated on his website that someone paying taxes to the government need not pay zakah, and was called a deviant and a kafir, but that Ibn Taymiyya and some of the salaf said the same of levies paid to the authorities, such as a toll for crossing a bridge. Mufti says that zakah is a case study: although it existed in the Prophet's lifetime, it was not clearly defined; the tribes were told to pay it a few months before his death, and it is unclear what was stipulated or whether they paid out of obligation or appreciation. He says that accepting a collector's right to count one's livestock meant relinquishing control of one's property, which for proud Arabs was the ultimate submission to authority, that there is almost no single sahih hadith on the nisab of gold and silver, and that he feels the scholars made a pragmatic decision because a state needs a tax system.

## Sources and names cited

- Shaykh Kashif Khan (guest)
- Javed Ahmad Ghamidi [?]
- Ibn Taymiyya
- Abu Hanifa
- zakah
- nisab
- tawaf
- salaf

## Transcript (machine tier, 42:21–47:29)

[41:53] and like the way the hadith head has been narrated to us the scholarly opinions have not been recorded and reached to a terrible scholar who had different opinion but they have been they haven't been used to us ghosts and those were different from the what normally are being conveyed from the for Mata Haven and the issue is that if you come up with a fatwa that you know like what you mentioned it's slightly weird or a bit outside the box or in some of these things like we I

[42:30] suppose like this humbly fatwa I dunno I mean on a site now just to mention that even it's a me I did also say a woman despite being on a menstrual cycle can do go off and he's got a reseller on e and he kind of leans in on Imam Abu Hanifa view that that it was not a kind of shot for the wolf but the but the point is if you come up with anything that's a bit out of the ordinary people are so trigger-happy to say kufur you know that is like you've gone

[43:05] against the itch Mandy and he did that he had a football news website but if you are paying taxes to the government then you don't have to pay the car it's not obligatory what's your P's and other people they started saying old Romney is already a deviant a kafir and when I quoted them from magnet aeneas the same thing and from the fellow saying thank you the

[43:42] government right in the form of tech obviously a kind of like a part when you would cross a bridge across the line so you have you had to pay to the local governments or Authority so the Salaf even in the in the US are they said that if you have already paid it it's just a car you don't have to anymore that so because they didn't have this like of course is common sense they didn't have this system like we have today but still there were some origins you can find and if natima said the same

[44:22] thing so those who were criticizing I am the OSI look he's modernize his piece and there then Davian know what like if the thickness is the same thing and there they completed president from the Salafist well yeah what what is what are your thoughts on that because I felt that you know on zakat zakat is quite interesting as a case study because I feel that the cut is I mean it's there in the lifetime of the Prophet sallallaahu Salaam yet in all honesty the question is how clearly defined is it in the lifetime of the Prophet

[44:59] because the cat as a concept is the the obligation in the of the Quran is artists cat is they we know in armored food the Europe delegation ninth a jury a few months before the profits of Alison passed away that the Prophet had told the neighboring kind of tribes and the tribes within Arabia to pay zakat now many of them did pay the Prophet but what was it stipulated as what they should pay your word they just they were giving a certain amount of certain

[45:35] things some tribes didn't pay and some were paying but were they paying out of an obligation or almost out of an appreciation we're not too sure but what we do know is within months the prophesy maximum passes away obviously the whole issue arises in the time of Oaxaca or the lava and it becomes a challenge a worry you know that the cat becomes a defining point because on one hand it means you see when you say that you have the right to come collect the cat it also means I surrender and relinquish my

[46:14] right to have two kind of private to deny access to my property because you now the say the person who would come that the auditor he can just come in and order all my stuff and I have no right to say no this for the Arabs was a big thing back then I mean they they were very kind of proud they didn't have this you know you can just come in and count all my sheep and and count all my camels and take this from it and I don't have the right to prevent you was a huge

[46:53] thing so this obviously triggers the redoubles and and from a worker of the allow animals perspective it was a it was the ultimate submission to Authority so yeah and around this time after them we see this okay that's him in life stop but what about gold and silver because gold and silver was not the main thing people are trading in their trading in livestock gold and silver this seems to be almost no single Sahih hadith on the nisab of like for example gold and and there were a majesty on a weaker these because what

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment hOusirOkBVU/s/9. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/housirokbvu/s/9/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.