# The birth of orthodoxy: a nameless main body and the hadith project

- URL: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f_4jnua3arq/s/1/
- Date: 2023-02-13 · Kind: lesson · Transcript tier: machine · Recording: Birth Of Islamic Orthodoxy And Institutionalisation | Mufti Abu Layth (0:00–5:46)
- Status: latest answer on its topic; general teaching
- Watch from the start of the segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_4jnUA3ARQ&t=0s
- Recording page: https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f_4jnua3arq/

**Topics:** Orthodoxy and how Islam spread; Creed and the schools of theology; Sunnah versus hadith

**Summary (not a quotation; machine-made, unchecked):** Orthodoxy means belief deemed correct by those with power. For two centuries the main body of Muslims had no name and was marked out by involvement in hadith.

**Checked position (checked by two independent reviews, not by the channel):** Mufti Abu Layth says the name Ahl al-Sunnah did not exist until over two hundred years after the Prophet.

**Evidence, his words at 1:57:** “this name Allah Sunnah didn't exist for until over you know decades over 200 years after the prophet” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_4jnUA3ARQ&t=117s)

## Longer summary

After a note about one-to-one sessions on Patreon, Mufti Abu Layth says a Patreon meetup led him to revisit orthodoxy, which he defines not simply as correct belief but as the belief that has been deemed correct, so that institutions and power come into play. He says that for almost two hundred years the main body of Muslims had no name, the term Ahl al-Sunnah not yet existing, while the Shia, the Khawarij and other sects had emerged. One way to identify with the main body was involvement in the hadith project, which represented the Prophet even though hadith is not synonymous with Sunnah in the Maliki and Hanafi schools. He says this is why Abu Hanifa, one of the greatest scholars, who used reason and compassion, was targeted and called deviant by some, while Imam Malik, with similar or bolder views but a master of the hadith sciences, was untouchable.

## Sources and names cited

- Ahl al-Sunnah
- Shia
- Khawarij
- Sunnah
- Abu Hanifa
- Imam Malik

## Transcript (machine tier, 0:00–5:46)

[0:00] the birth of Orthodoxy and institutionalization because we were we got discussing in our patreon Meetup oh by the way those of you that um do want to sign up to that just go to patreon and you can it gives you different tiers and you can connect I did make a post um in fact I'll make a separate statement about this at the end about people when they want to connect and they want because it's difficult you know on these other social media you can't really give that time um so you have that option in patreon you can have one-to-one discussions you

[0:36] can book yourself in okay now look on our patreon uh Meetup we got chatting on the group Meetup and we were just talking and we ended up speaking about these issues and then one of them did say that have you discussed this in your meaning with malm and I did say look you know what I'll I'll do it again and so I'm sure I have in the past but I'll I'll kind of expand on this slightly so Orthodoxy that there's it's I think it's very interesting to um to

[1:17] kind of examine Orthodoxy so Orthodoxy is well people would understand it as saying well it's the correct belief but it's not just the correct belief it's like saying the belief that has been deemed correct okay now that's interesting because when you say well deemed correct institutions come into play and power comes into play so it's very fascinating like this was the phenomenon we were discussing when we look at Sunni

[1:57] Islam we find that for the first almost 200 years there clearly is the main body of Muslims the main um what you call the sawadul Adam the great you know the the main body of people who were main Muslims but they didn't have a name so this name Allah Sunnah didn't exist for until over you know decades over 200 years after the prophet so there was no name for the main body of Muslims so if you said to someone well who are you they would just say you know we're Muslim but

[2:37] the other there were many other sects that had emerged so the Shia had emerged the huarach had emerged let's say the rawafed the different sects had emerged so how did you identify as I'm from the main body of Muslims so what you had was there was an identitarian methodology that took place and that was that by association so and one symbol of that was that you

[3:14] were engaged in in the study of the study and um the project of Hadith so if you were engaged in the Hadith project as a mahadith of Islam you by default were at the center because the Hadith represented the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam and even though Hadith is not synonymous with Sunnah in you know in especially in Maliki and hanafi

[3:52] Islam the main the majority of Sunni Islam because they're the majority in numbers um but Hadith still is an attempt to capture the historical records of the Prophet so if you're somebody engaged in that you are by in the center you this is one way of saying I'm uh obviously the word Sunni didn't exist but it's like saying I'm a Proto Sunni I'm from the main body of Muslims I'm not from a deviant sect okay this is why for example Imam Allah was one of the greatest Scholars of Islam he wasn't Bulletproof

[4:32] you see because if you were involved in the Hadith project you were that was one layer of armor against this being ostracized so he wasn't because he was not involved in the Hadith project and hence he was a Target and hence he was cast aside from the main body of Muslims according to certain Scholars of the time they considered him not they considered him a devian because he wasn't from the Hadith project so because if you think of it Imam of hanifa who was involved in reason and he

[5:09] used logic and reason voice of reason to and uh he and compassion as a key tool in to to instrumentalize the Sharia his views which are Imam Malik holds many similar if not some more outstretched views but why was Imam Malik never cast aside or ostracized because he was Hadith he was not only well involved in the Hadith project he was a dawn of the Sciences of Hadith

## Cite

Mufti Abu Layth Archive, segment F_4jnUA3ARQ/s/1. https://muftiabulayth.org/r/f_4jnua3arq/s/1/

Not a fatwa: these answers were given to specific people at specific times. Ask a qualified scholar about your own situation.